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The Daily Beans
Refried Beans | Local And Vocal (feat. Adam Klasfeld; Ezra Levin) | 7.08.2026
00:53:53
Tuesday, July 8th, 2025 Plaintiffs in the lawsuit trying to facilitate due process for all the people trapped in CECOT have filed a bombshell court document on Judge Boasberg’s docket; first responders from Mexico Are helping Texas flooding while Ted Cruz vacations in Greece; six leading medical organizations are suing RFK Jr over his vaccine limitations; the Trump administration is refusing to release the Epstein files; FEMA is ending door to door canvassing in disaster areas; a Coast Guard swimmer who rescued 165 people from flooding in Texas is speaking out; Judge Paula Xinis holds a hearing to resolve outstanding issues in the Abrego case. Dana is out and about!
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- [00:00]
Alison Gill
History is messy. It's weird, wild, and anything but boring. Rainy Day Rabbit Holes is a history podcast about unhinged stories that make you stop and ask, wait, is this real life? From crazy disasters and tasty scandals to enlightening and surprising heartwarming tales, we explore the moments where people behave badly and sometimes beautifully. We've got naughty politicians, cultural chaos, and a deep love for the Pacific Northwest, including Bigfoot. It's thoughtful, irreverent, occasionally serious, and always entertaining. Let's fall down the rabbit hole. MSW Media. MSW Media hey everybody, it's ag. And welcome to Refried Beans, where we play an episode of the Daily Beans podcast from the same week either one, two or three years ago so we can see how far we've come. So please enjoy this episode from days gone by and note the date in the intro.
- [01:07]
Adam Klassfeld
Refried Beans I like refried beans.
- [01:09]
Alison Gill
That's why I want to try fried beans, because maybe they're just as good
- [01:11]
Adam Klassfeld
and we're wasting time.
- [01:30]
Alison Gill
Hello and welcome to the Daily beans for Tuesday, July 8, 2025. Today, the plaintiffs in the lawsuit trying to facilitate due process for all of the people trapped in Seacoat in El Salvador, have filed a bombshell court document on Judge Boasberg's docket. First responders from Mexico are helping Texas with the flooding, while Ted Cruz vacations in Greece. I guess six leading medical organizations are suing RFK Jr over his vaccine limitations. The Trump administration is refusing to release the Epstein files. FEMA is ending door to door canvassing in disaster areas. A Coast Guard swimmer who rescued 165 people from flooding in Texas is speaking out. And Judge Polissini holds a hearing to resolve outstanding issues in the Abrego case. I'm your host, Alison Gill. Hey everybody, It's Tuesday here, July 8th. Thank you to everyone, by the way, who sent messages, solidarity about my story on Independence Day yesterday. And welcome to all our new listeners. We have a ton of new listeners. Thank you for tuning in. I guess we don't tune into things anymore. We just sort of click buttons. But we're glad you're here. Dana is out. She'll be back very soon, I promise. So thanks for hanging out with me solo while she's out doing her good work. Later in the show, I'm going to be speaking with the co founder and co executive director of Indivisible, Ezra Levin about the One Million Rising initiative. Also on the docket today, I followed along with the Abrego hearing in Judge Polissini's courtroom thanks to Anna Bauer over at Lawfare. She was in a part of the courtroom where she could have an electronic device. And, man, these new DOJ lawyers are, I'm just going to say, garbage. But we can talk about that a little bit in a minute, because joining me from All Rise News is somebody who's in the courtroom, Adam Klassfeldt. Hey, Adam, how's it going?
- [03:23]
Adam Klassfeld
Doing very well, Alison. How are you?
- [03:24]
Alison Gill
Oh, I thought you said dude. Very well. I thought you said dude. That's a California thing. I didn't know. So this hearing was pretty incredible. Some of the things that came out in this hearing, just contradictory things from the doj, meaning they've given untruths in some court filings and in other cases. But let's talk about what this hearing was about, because it was about multiple things. There were a couple of motions on the docket she wanted to dispense with, and the first one was a government motion to dismiss based on jurisdiction and arguing for the Department of Justice with somebody named O. Hickey. I'm not sure if she's new or, you know, because I know that Judge C. Said, I know you're new to this, but you. I'm sure that you read that I already ruled on jurisdiction and that the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals sort of, you know, backed me up on that. It was just a very odd back and forth. But there was a lot of interesting argument in this first motion that should have been already withdrawn by the Department of Justice because they had said in that motion that they couldn't bring Abrego Garcia back. Right, right, right.
- [04:30]
Adam Klassfeld
It was an embarrassing colloquy for the government, Alison, because what happened here, this new DOJ lawyer, Bridget o', Hickey, was saying that jurisdiction is still a live issue because when the fourth Circuit ruled they were ruling on a stay, the judge said no, before ruling on everything else, they need to decide jurisdiction. And she quoted the ruling on jurisdiction. And let's take a step back from all the technicalities here. The heart of the government's motion here was that, as you alluded to, Alison, that the judge has no jurisdiction because the government can't control what Mr. Bukele does in El Salvador. Now, six days after the government filed this motion, the government secretly indicted Kilmar Abrego Garcia in the middle district of Tennessee. And the judge called them out on it, said that it's highly problematic that the government made that representation and six days later was pursuing and got a sealed indictment of Mr. Abrego in the Middle District of Tennessee saying that they had no idea that they had the power to get Mr. Abrego back would be illogical if they were using government resources to pursue this indictment. And so this was a ruling that the judge on the motion to dismiss, she very quickly denied it. But repeatedly throughout this exchange kept reminding the new DOJ attorney, Ms. O', Hickey, that she is an officer of the court. And do you know that a judge is angry at the government when they refer to a government attorney as an officer of the court? And I lost count how many times during this hearing the judge referred to a government attorney as an officer of the court. There was one exchange when she was pressing her colleague Mr. Gwynn, Jonathan Gwynn's feet to the fire on what are the government's plans with Mr. Abrego? Are they going to try to deport him? When? Where? When Mr. Gwyn said that the plans were trying to deport him to a third country, she asked which country. He wouldn't say. But when she pressed him on these questions, he seemed to resist. And he said the judge told him, I am directing you to answer this as an officer of the court. Ultimately, at the end of these proceedings, the judge ordered a knowledgeable government official to testify on Thursday and that they must take the stand and provide sworn answers to the questions on I think everyone's mind who has been following this case. What are the government's plans for Mr. Abrego? Do they intend to deport him to a third country? Do they intend to try to deport him to El Salvador? What is the timeline of this? What happens? Because taking another step back, Mr. Abrego can be released from pretrial detention in his criminal case on July 16. It is now July 7. And the judge said multiple times that she doesn't believe that the government still has no idea what it's going to do. So Thursday she's almost certainly going to have sharp questions about what is the process. You're telling me that you don't know? There are negotiations underway, negotiations with which countries. These are the type of questions that I am sure that the judge is going to press for come Thursday. Now, whether the government's going to answer that is another question. But if they don't, because of the nature of this motion, the non answers can work out badly for the government.
- [08:39]
Alison Gill
Yeah, I think so. And I think also what was really kind of shocking to me or at least chilling was, you know, when Judge Sinis was like, well, if he's released, a judge has determined because they were like, why are you going to deport him to a third party country? Well, you know, especially, she said, in light of the fact that you have said publicly and in sworn testimony that you're going to try him for his crimes in Tennessee, why would you deport him if you're so, you know, adamant about trying him? Well, we just, we just want to. Basically, we don't want him released from prison.
- [09:11]
Ezra Levin
We.
- [09:12]
Alison Gill
We either want to try him or we want to deport him because he's a danger to the public. And the judge was like, but a judge has decided that he's not. And that's when the government said, no, it's not up to the courts. It's up to us. It's up to the government to decide whether somebody's a danger to society or not. And that kind of blew my mind.
- [09:31]
Adam Klassfeld
Well, there was this very curious exchange, Alison, where the government was going on. And it was particularly the Justice Department attorney Jonathan Gwynn, with this fiery tone of indignation about what a dangerous man Kilmar Abrego Garcia is. And he said something along the lines of, he's not a man you would want in your neighborhood, referring to the judge, that you would not want him in your neighborhood. And she cut him off and told him, you don't need to give me your stump speech, and said, that's not. And the underlying subtext being, tell me the law, tell me the facts of this. We're going to see whether the government is taking stock of following the usual procedures, obeying the law and the Constitution, not this sort of political rhetoric. If they have allegations about Mr. Abrego's behavior, there's a process for that. The government seems to want to end, run that through the deportation proceedings. And they made that abundantly clear today when the, you know, Jonathan Gwynn, again, the government lawyer, said that there's been misleading reporting that we don't want to prosecute this case. We do. And shortly after that, the judge said, you aren't planning to press pause on the deportation proceedings until this trial was over. And he said, that's correct. We don't. They're pursuing deportation, which would have the effect of not putting this case, not bringing this case to a head. It's flinging these allegations about this supposedly dangerous man who. They do not want to put up a defense to those allegations at a trial. That's what's happening right now.
- [11:24]
Alison Gill
Yeah. And something else that I kind of was like, oh, well, my goodness. Is when O. Hickey chimed in and said that he was removed to El Salvador erroneously by mistake.
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Adam Klassfeld
Correct.
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Alison Gill
And. And that is not what the government's position has been.
- [11:44]
Adam Klassfeld
Well, the funny thing is the government's position has been a roller coaster because folks will remember at the earliest part of these proceedings, there was a Justice Department attorney by the name of Erez Reveni, and he was then a Justice Department attorney arguing against Mr. Abrego, who said it was an administrative error, you, Honor. That's where these proceedings began. That's when we learned about this supposed administrative error. And for that pander, for that concession, Mr. Uveni was fired and ultimately filed a whistleblower complaint saying that. And I'm sure you'll allow me to directly quote here, Alison, that Emil Bovey had ordered the Justice Department to say fuck you to the Judiciary. And that's Mr. Reuveni. That was where we started with his admission that it was administrative error. For that candor, he was fired and other attorneys brought into his place saying it was not an error. This was a righteous deportation. I don't know the exact quotes that they use, but in some substance that. And now they're back to square one. Now they're back to admitting the thing they fired Rouveni for, which is saying this was a mistake. Your Honor is a one off. There's no need for further relief because it's not a mistake that's going to be repeated. So they are contradicting themselves. This is a double black backflip. This is a double taco, as the saying goes, where the government keeps reversing itself on whether or not when they illegally spirited Kilmar Abrego Garcia to a dangerous prison in El Salvador. Prison that this judge, Judge Zinis, described as one of the most dangerous prisons in the Western Hemisphere. A prison where Mr. Abrego says he was horrifically tortured. That that was all a mistake, a monumental mistake. They went from it was a mistake. No, it was a righteous thing within our total lawful power. And they're landed back on it's a mistake again. Judge Zinis is not letting them get away with that flip flop. She has yet to decide. Remember, there is a pending motion that was not brought up in court today, but it is still out there as to whether to sanction the government for its actions.
- [14:15]
Alison Gill
The.
- [14:16]
Adam Klassfeld
The judge repeatedly warned the government attorneys put them on notice by describing them as officers of the court. When judges do that, they're saying that they're responsible for the statements that are coming out of their mouths. And that's where we are.
- [14:32]
Alison Gill
Yeah. And I Also thought it was interesting. She. She also denied the government's motion to dismiss the case as moot. You know, the government was arguing we effectuated his return, so this whole thing should go away. And Judge Sinis was like, no, not so fast. You effectuated his return, but the other part of that order was to put him back in the same position he was before you made your mistake that you had just admitted to.
- [14:52]
Adam Klassfeld
Absolutely.
- [14:53]
Alison Gill
And so she's going to think about that as well. And the third thing she did was give the government until I think, like nine days or so to file its response to Mr. Abrego's amended complaint, which includes, you know, I wrote it up at the breakdown, includes all of his description of the torture that he faced there. So those are kind of the underlying things in this particular hearing. She's going to have another hearing on Thursday to get a witness in the chair with knowledge. And this has happened before, I remember. You know, she's like, get me a witness with knowledge. And they never do. They always obfuscate. And their argument is, we aren't. We don't know what we're going to do with him until we get him in ICE custody. And. And that's just a bizarre argument to make, especially since you've now admitted again that this was an error. But then toward the end of the hearing, we all got this alert on the docket that documents filed in Boasberg's court assert that officials in El Salvador told the UN that it facilitated the use of Salvadoran prison infrastructure by the United States and that the jurisdiction and legal responsibility of those persons belongs to the United States. So that goes against every single argument, every single time the government told the court that they do not have custody. What is it called? Constructive custody. Custody of the people in C Code, which at the time included Mr. Abrego. Right. And also Andre Hernandez Romero and Frank Almota and, you know, now the putative class of everyone who is stuck in. In that Salvadoran prison, the United States argument, and that came up in the hearing today, but I don't think they had this particular bit of information yet when they made. When they made it or when they were defending it, that somehow the government couldn't effectuate anyone's return because they didn't have custody of these folks in Sea Code.
- [16:55]
Adam Klassfeld
Right. Well, what happened was the Salvadoran government, under pressure from the United nations, gave the exact inverse of the argument that the Trump admin was making. Oh, no, we don't have custody. That's Mr. Bukele. We're powerless. We are entirely impotent over whether we can take Mr. Rodrigo back. Well, here's Mr. Bukele under pressure again from the United nations because of the appalling conditions in his terrorism prison and saying we do not have responsibility for the men who were illegally and unceremoniously whisked from the United States into our terror dungeon. And that's what happened. It's that it happened in the middle of this hearing, that it happened at a time that this judge, Judge Zinis, was holding the government to account of its professed powerlessness to return Mr. Abrego when six days later they indict him, is an incredible confluence of events, and one that I am sure that if Mr. Abrego's attorneys even knew was happening a short distance away in the District of Washington, they would have mentioned that to the judge. And one wonders how soon it will be before they notice and throw that on the docket themselves.
- [18:22]
Alison Gill
Yeah. And that particular document and that concession by Bukele to the United nations is going to, I'm sure, turn up in Arez Raveni's whistleblower account in Mr. Abrego's case, in JGG in Bozberg with the new seat coat class. I mean, it impacts so many different cases. And, and so I expect to see those filings in short order to include that. Now, it's already on the docket in Boseberg's court, because that's where this document came from. But what a. What a find by the plaintiffs there in the JGG case.
- [18:56]
Adam Klassfeld
Absolutely.
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Alison Gill
The other interesting thing that happened today is when Judge Sinis was asking O Hickey about the indictment and. Well, didn't you just start. No, you. You only just started investigating April 28th. Well, well, you know, and there was a lot of long and talking about was, did you know about this indictment when you filed this motion, you know, to dismiss? Because you kept telling me, or you refused to tell me the steps you were taking to facilitate his return. There was a whole discovery thing, you know, which the sanctions motion is about, because the government wouldn't even, in their updates that she ordered, tell them what steps they were taking to effectuate his return. When they were taking steps, at least the indictment steps and the discussions with Bukhari Kale about the indictment that they claimed to have, you know, having been a part of. And so Judge Sinis kept asking, well, you know, basically, oh, so you were taking steps to facilitate his return? And Ohici was just. Didn't really have an answer to that.
- [20:00]
Adam Klassfeld
No. And just an illustration of how in the dark the government kept everyone, both the defense or here, the plaintiffs, Mr. Abrego's lawyers, his family. At one point, Judge Zinis asked when and how Mr. Abrego's attorneys learned that he would be returned to the United States. Said, you, Honor, I learned from ABC News that's how Kilma Abrego Garcia's lawyers learned that their client was being returned to the United States.
- [20:34]
Alison Gill
Yeah, very just kind of shocking and devastating stuff going on in court today. Thank you for being there. Thank you for covering it. And I encourage everybody to follow All Rise News, subscribe on substack and of course, follow Adam Klassfeld on social media for all of these updates. Really just incredible stuff today. So thanks for coming on and kind of explaining it.
- [20:54]
Adam Klassfeld
Thank you so much, Alison. Always a pleasure chatting.
- [20:57]
Alison Gill
Okay, everybody, we have to get to Hot Notes, so we have to take a quick break first. So stick around. We'll be right back after these messages. We'll be right back.
- [21:10]
Amanda Sturgill
It's no surprise that newsmakers try to manipulate the audience. Audience. They want you to believe that they are the one holding the line, and they'll use any trick they can to get you there.
- [21:18]
Alison Gill
But don't let them fool you.
- [21:19]
Amanda Sturgill
Get unspun. I'm Amanda Sturgill. I've been a reporter, and today I teach future reporters to cut the spin and think critically about what newsmakers say. My podcast, Unspun, shows you how to know when you're being manipulated by the news, learn to spot the tricks and how to make up your own mind about what's true. So if you're tired of being fooled by the news, subscribe to UNSPUN today. Unspun because you deserve the truth.
- [21:50]
Alison Gill
Everybody, welcome back. It's time for the Hot notes. Hot Notes. All right, first up from CBS News, a Justice Department and FBI review of the investigation related to disgraced late financier Jeffrey Epstein found that there was, quote, no client list or evidence that he blackmailed prominent figures. That's according to a memo detailing the findings. The review also concluded that Epstein died by suicide while in custody at a Manhattan correctional facility in 2019. Epstein was facing federal sex trafficking charges, and his death was subsequently investigated by the Justice Department's internal watchdog and the FBI, by the way, all of whom are Trump allies. The Justice Department and FBI said in their memo that video footage reviewed by the bureau and made available to the public confirmed that Epstein was locked in his cell and nobody entered tiers of the unit where he was housed at the time of his death. Investigators also, quote, did not uncover evidence that could predicate any investigation against uncharged third parties. Another, quote, this systematic review revealed no incriminating client list. There was also no credible evidence found that Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals as part of his actions. That's what the Justice Department, Pam Bondi and FBI Kash Patel said in their two page document detailing the accusations. So we're going to release the Epstein files. We're going to release them. Well, maybe not all of them, but we'll release them. I'm sitting here thinking they're going to have to go through piles and piles of documents to redact Trump and his friends from names from, from, from these documents. Pam Bondi said a while ago during a press conference that the client list was on her desk waiting to be reviewed. I guess that was a lie. Big shocker. And of course, Elon Musk is now who, you know, when they, when him and Trump got into their first feud, Musk was like, I know what's in the Epstein files. They're coming. Oh, you're going to be shocked. So now he's back on that train. Very, very upset. A lot of MAGA people and right wing people on right wing social media sites are very upset that there are no Epstein files to be had. So fascinating. I mean, your speculation is as good as mine on any of this. But I knew that this was, there was not going to be any Epstein files. I mean, come on, Donald Trump's all over them. So anyway, that is what's being reported now from CBS News and from this DOJ FBI joint memo. Next up from the Times, six leading medical organizations have filed a lawsuit against RFK Jr. And the Department of Health and Human Services, charging that recent decisions limiting access to vaccines were unscientific and harmful to the public. The suit filed in court in western Massachusetts seeks to restore Covid vaccines to the list of recommended immunizations for healthy children and pregnant women. Mr. Kennedy has been on a, quote, decades long mission to undermine vaccines and to portray them as more dangerous than the illnesses they are designed to prevent. That's what Richard H. Hughes IV said, a lawyer who teaches vaccine law at George Washington University and who is leading this effort. The secretary's intentions are clear. He aims to destroy vaccines. The plaintiffs include the American Public Health association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Infectious Disease Society of America, the American College of Physicians, the Society for Maternal Fetal Medicine, and the Massachusetts Public Health Alliance. So couple of doctors, right, that actually are impacted by this. Not like the mifeprestone lawsuit where it was a few dentists who thought they might see patients that would have complications due to mifepristone and sued in Casmarek's courtroom. Just a bunch of bullshit. These are actual doctors, tons of them, from massive health organizations suing HHS and RFK Jr. We'll see what ends up happening with this lawsuit. We'll follow it. I think it's been assigned to Judge Young, who has not been very kind to the Trump administration. Well, I should say he's been very good about the law. And if you're good about the law, you are by proxy unkind to the Trump administration. Next up from Wired, the Federal Emergency Management Agency. FEMA is making significant changes to how it will respond to disasters on the ground this season, including ending federal door to door canvassing of survivors in disaster areas. That's what Wired has learned. A memo reviewed By Wired dated May 2 and addressed to regional FEMA leaders from Cameron Hamilton, a senior official performing the duties of the administrator instructs program offices to, quote, take steps to implement five key reforms for the upcoming hurricane and wildfire season. Under the first reform titled Prioritize Supervisor Assistance at Fixed Facilities, the memo states that FEMA will discontinue unaccompanied FEMA door to door canvassing to focus survivor outreach and assistance registration capabilities in more targeted venues, improving access to those in need and increasing collaboration with state, local, tribal and territorial partners and nonprofit service providers. FEMA has for years deployed staff to travel door to door in disaster areas, interacting directly with survivors in their homes to give them an overview of FEMA aid application processes and help them register for federal aid. They're taking that away. This group of workers is part of a larger cadre of folks often called FEMA's boots on the ground. Ending door to door canvassing, one FEMA worker says, will severely hamper our ability to reach vulnerable people. The assistance provided by workers going door to door has usually focused on the most impacted in the most vulnerable communities, where there may be people who are elderly or with disabilities or lack of transportation and they're unable to reach disaster recovery centers. That person, by the way, spoke to Wired on the condition of anonymity as they were not authorized to speak to the press. They do not care about you. They want your tax dollars for themselves. They want fewer people to file for the aid that we pay into our taxes to give people in disaster areas. Anyway, time for some better news. This is from Channel 2 News in Houston, Texas. The search and rescue mission in the Texas Hill county is now an international effort. Firefighters from Mexico have arrived in Kerr county to help find survivors and those missing in the catastrophic flash flooding that swept through the region on Independence day. More than 20 firefighters from Cuidad Acuna, Mexico and Foundation911 are lending a hand to their northern neighbor, Texas. They're not only bringing extra boots on the ground, but also drones and other technology to help find the several dozen Texans that are still missing. Mexico is on the ground in Texas helping to find missing Texans. Leaders of the group tell KPRC2 that they work hand in hand with US fire departments to train to respond to disasters. So they're helping. Thank you Mexico. And from People magazine, a young Coast Guard rescue swimmer is being hailed as a hero after saving 165 people at camp mystic amid the devastating flooding in Texas. Around 7am Friday, the Fourth of July, Scott Ruskin was on duty at the U.S. coast Guard's Air station Corpus Christi in Texas when a call came in for his team to respond to deadly flooding that was sweeping across Central Texas. Quote, we decided to leave me on scene at Camp Mystic. That was kind of our main triage site where we were trying to help people. That's what he said, explaining that. And the thought process was that it would free up more space on the rescue helicopter so that victims could be taken to safety. He continued saying, I kind of discovered I was the only person there as far as first responders go. So I had about 200 kids, mostly all scared, terrified cold, having probably the worst day of their life. And I just kind of needed to triage them, get them to higher level of care and get them out of the flood zone. The heroic first responder worked alongside members of the U.S. army National Guard to get the people loaded and to safety. And despite Trump saying nobody joined the military under Joe Biden, this hero did. He's been in the coast guard since 2021. All right everybody, we'll be right back with some good trouble. Hey everybody, welcome back. It's time for some good trouble. What are you guys doing
- [30:27]
Ezra Levin
now?
- [30:27]
Alison Gill
As you know, yesterday I introduced Internet Indivisible's 1 million rising, which is a strategic non cooperation plan to fight authoritarianism. And joining us today to discuss it in more detail is the co founder and co executive director of Indivisible, Ezra Levin. Ezra, welcome to the Daily Beans.
- [30:44]
Ezra Levin
Hey Alison, great to be here.
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Alison Gill
It's so good to meet you face to face. Put a face to a name. I'm really glad to be talking to you. I think this is the best idea I've seen so far, you know, because a lot of folks are talking about, yeah, we can all get out and march for no Kings and get out and hold up our signs, but there's something else that we need to do in order to effectuate the actual change we want to see, not just in the Democratic Party, but in our future politics and our future body politics. So talk a little bit about the concept of 1 million rising, because the last time I checked, there's like 1.6 million people who signed up for this.
- [31:20]
Ezra Levin
So the basic idea is this. No Kings was incredibly powerful. We had 5 to 6 million people at the low end of the estimates showing up in 27 countries in 2,169 communities. To say we don't do monarchs in America, and that is great. And also, we all have to recognize that a one day protest is a one day protest that is not going to suddenly save democracy. It's not suddenly going to convince Trump that he needs to step back. It is part of an overall strategy to build up a pro democracy force in this country that is capable of successfully stopping Trump and the federal overreach that we're seeing every single day. But it's part of it. And so the real measure of success from no Kings is not just how incredibly big and empowering and joyful it was. That's part of it. But it's how many people are we able to take from a one day protest and plug them into meaningful, effective local organizing? Because what we know from the fights against authoritarianism around the world is that one day protests are good press generating recruitment events. But to successfully push back against authoritarian breakthrough moments like the one we're in now, you need people engaged in their own community. You need them organizing persistently over the course of weeks and months and doing that in a way that is particular to their neighborhood, their community, their city, where they are. Because you in Arkansas or in California or in Texas or in New York, your opportunities and challenges are going to be different based on where you are. And so what you can do needs to be tailored for your community. This is an effort to take our sites and take them from. Just focus on how do we stop bad legislation or what is the White House doing and focusing on how is this playing out in my community and how can I get a group of people together and directly confront this federal overreach? That's the basic idea.
- [33:17]
Alison Gill
I love this. And how do we. I've encouraged everyone. We've got a link in the show notes to sign up for these three seminars over the summer. Yeah, talk a little bit about, you know, without giving too much away. We're all, we're all going to attend. Yeah, but the non cooperation idea is, is huge because we, you know, we've talked about on this show that now declassified CIA manual about sabotage and little things that we can do. You know, every day we have a good trouble segment here where we're like, like clog up the ice snitch line and make it put a seven hour hold on that thing and, and things like that. So talk a little bit about. There's a couple of components to this. There's, there's the non cooperation and the organization to succeed in non cooperation. But then there's also, like you said, local campaign initiatives that can help because we don't want to leave the idea of voting in the next election or 2025 elections behind. Right.
- [34:08]
Ezra Levin
Yeah. So this is one of these, this is an effort that we didn't put together just on our own. We've been working with the experts in nonviolent, effective, anti authoritarian protests, specifically with Maria Steffen, who's one of these experts, and authoritarianism, one of these fancy academic experts and the folks over at Freedom Trainers. So this is what they do. And so we've constructed this training with these experts. And it's as you said, this is about non cooperation, which isn't an a, I think, a fully socialized part of the American political discussion. We talk about how do we get out the vote. We talk about how do we contact our member of Congress. These are important things. Non cooperation is different though, and it's important in this context of authoritarian overreach because the elections aren't for 16 months. They're not for 16 months. Congress is not working on any immediate action items that we can influence. They just passed one of the worst pieces of legislation in American history, but that's been passed now. So now the question is what do we do over the course of the next 16 months? And what I don't want to tell people is, well, it's really important to go vote in 16 months. Forget that. That is not the immediate challenge in front of us. That's going to be a challenge, but it is 2025, so we need to focus on what we can actually do. And this is where non cooperation can play a big role. And there are different types of non cooperation. There's social non cooperation, there's political non cooperation, there's economic non cooperation. So with social non cooperation, this could look like, like artists refusing to perform at Trump friendly venues. It could look like local neighborhoods offering sanctuary for immigrants or activists. It's going to be different based on where you are and what your opportunities are. But there are campaigns you can run when it comes to political non cooperation. This could be school districts or other local governments refusing to give in to federal edicts. This could be you working directly with your school district to make sure that they're safe from ice, that ICE isn't terrorizing your local elementary school. And when it comes to economic non cooperation, we've seen this already, saw this in the form of the Tesla takedown. We saw this in the form of the Target boycott. I think we could see this in the form of going to your local business and asking, is ICE welcome here? Because I don't think you should be welcoming ICE into your business and you should put up a sign outside saying ICE is not welcome here. These are examples. One of the tricky things of doing this is it's not as easy as me telling everybody in the country, contact your member of Congress and tell them to vote no on X. And this is why we have the training. Because actually the way that you effectively put into play non cooperation tactics is not one size fits all. It's by giving people the basic understanding of how this works, why this works, and how to think about it in your own context. Because if this is going to work, it's not going to be command and control from Ezra Levin or any national organization. What we hope through this training we're able to do is to pull in a million people who are trained on how this is done so that they can use their brains, their creativity, their entrepreneurialism to figure out, okay, this is what we're going to do, everybody. We're going to gather every folks together and this is the campaign we're running. And if we all do that, that ladders up to a national effort to push back against this federal overreach.
- [37:18]
Alison Gill
Yeah, like we saw Eliza Orleans point out some businesses that had done and you know, been big donors to Susan Collins, for example, in Maine, and they went and protested those businesses. Now, Susan Collins voted no on the big ugly bill and we could actually have a debate as to why. Maybe it was her turn to vote no, it was Murkowski's turn to vote yes. But that's the kind of localized niche resistance that is creative and applies to where people are. And I think that that's why this training is going to be so amazing. And there's also a train the Trainers, Right.
- [37:55]
Ezra Levin
Well, that's a key part of it. We're not going to train everybody. We need to train in this training. The, the way indivisible works, and this is whether we're talking about non cooperation or we're talking about pushing members of Congress for electing folks, is we don't believe we have all the answers. We don't believe that we can just tell everybody in the country exactly what to do. The real way this works is that we give locals agency and the tools they need to apply this in their own community. So the real dream I would have is we get hundreds of thousands of people to go through this training and then they turn to their local. Maybe it's an indivisible group, maybe it's a working families party chapter, maybe it's a move on group, maybe it's a local environmental group or an immigrant rights group. Whatever it is, whatever your local community organizing hub is, they take this there and say, okay folks, this is what we're doing. And then they train a whole bunch of more folks. And that's how you actually reach the numbers that we need who are actively engaged in pushback against authoritarian breakthrough. That the number we have in our head is this number that came from Erica Chenoweth, this 3.5% number. Folks have probably heard it that if you have three and a half percent of the population actively engaged in a persistent way locally where they are against authoritarian overreach, that's enough. I think people might have in their head, oh, Donald Trump won a plurality of the vote. There are tens of millions of Americans who are out there who are for him. He's got the mandate for this and the support. And how are we going to get 50 million people out in the streets? That's actually not the goal. It's really not the goal. You need about 3 1/2 percent, according to all the studies of how you push back against authoritarianism in the US context, that's 11 or 12 million people. We reached half of that for no Kings Day. This is something that is imminently achievable, but we got to build it. We're working the muscle. We're building the muscle. This training is a key way that we reach not just the immediate next stage of folks, but equip them to then go further out and recruit more people to get to that 3.5% number.
- [39:52]
Alison Gill
Well, I think this is great. And if you have a podcast on best ideas that you want to share, MSW Media is happy to drop that into our feed feeds with our subscribers. If you have any 60 or 90 second ads that you would like us to read, we're happy to donate that time across our network, too. That's how important I think this is. So we really appreciate all this work that you're doing and all the work that everyone is going to be doing as a result of the work that you're doing, because this is a full contact sport, this is full participation. It's our democracy. We are the leaders that we're looking for and we can do this.
- [40:26]
Ezra Levin
That's right. Look, I think the greatest power Trump has is in this display of power. It's not actual strength. He is an unpopular lame duck president on his way out. He is not all powerful. He would love you to believe it, though, because he knows if you believe he's all powerful, then he is. The truth of the matter is the power belongs to the people in democracy. But if we don't organize, we don't use it, we don't have it. So we're trying to get as many people to take their power in hand and use it. That is the goal. And I think we're going to get there. I think we're going to get there. I think he is overplaying his hand. I think he's overreaching. I think what he is doing is deeply unpopular. And unfortunately, after this bill, we're going to see what he did at la, the militarization, the terror that he brought to communities throughout the city. And he's going to take that show on the road. They've got the money now, and I think a lot of Americans are going to see that. And people who were not engaged before are going to lift their head up and they're going to say, oh, my gosh, I can't believe what they're doing in Seattle and Chicago and New York and Austin. What do I do about it? And we need to be there to welcome them in and say, yeah, great, welcome to the fight. You. You are in it now. We want you to be part of this and here's what you can do.
- [41:37]
Alison Gill
Yeah. And if you need fuel, if you need proof that people power beats money power, take a look at what happened in New York City in the mayoral race. Take a look at whether you agree with the policies or the politics or not. But take a look at what happened in Wisconsin, where Elon Musk dumped $25 million to shape the Wisconsin Supreme Court the way he wanted to. And the people turned out and said no. What they did in Missouri, with a lot of their ballot initiatives. Kansas, I mean the list is long. There is proof that the people power is more powerful than the big money machine. And we have to kind of use that, I think to fuel ourselves to move forward.
- [42:12]
Ezra Levin
The other side is just driven by cynicism, fatalism and nihilism about our political system. They don't want democracy to work and they want you to believe that it's broken so that you don't participate. Cuz they're terrified that people are gonna participate cuz they know they lose literally this year, as you said, Elon Musk dumped more than $20 million to steal a Supreme Court race in Wisconsin and he got his ass handed to him up and down the state. That's great. Look, we still, I know it's, it's flawed, I know it's imperiled. But we still have a democracy right now if we choose to defend it.
- [42:40]
Alison Gill
Well, I appreciate you doing this and having these seminars again. We have a link in the show notes to sign up and then other people can sign up on your link when you share that you signed up on social media. Gosh, I shared that in the middle of the night. I think on Saturday night we had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people use that link to sign up. So your voice is powerful. Make sure you use it. Ezra, is there anything else coming up next? Big protest. Any other things going on in Indivisible that you want folks to know about and tell them where to find it?
- [43:06]
Ezra Levin
So this is Indivisible is not lean this. But we're a proud partner with Transformative Justice Coalition. The day after the first one million rising training is July 17th. That's a Thursday. It's the five year anniversary of John Lewis's passing Mr. Good Trouble himself. So we will be showing up in communities all over the country. I hope folks here mark that on their calendar and plan to show up locally as well.
- [43:30]
Alison Gill
Awesome. Thank you so very much. And what is the website and that people can get information on? I usually go to Mobilize Us but you can also go to your website mobilize.
- [43:41]
Ezra Levin
That's works. Indivisible.org is Indivisible's website. You can find your local group there and local events as well.
- [43:46]
Alison Gill
Awesome, thank you so much everybody. Join your Local Indivisible group, Indivisible.org I appreciate your time today and thank you so much. It's been great to meet you. We'll have you back on I'm sure in the coming months to discuss future things that we can do. And that MSW media can do to help you get those. Get the word out.
- [44:01]
Ezra Levin
Let's do it, Allison.
- [44:02]
Alison Gill
All right, Ezra Levin, thanks so much, everybody. Stick around. We'll be right back with the good News.
- [44:08]
Amanda Sturgill
It's no surprise that newsmakers try to manipulate the audience. They want. They want you to believe that they are the one holding the line, and they'll use any trick they can to get you there. But don't let them fool you. Get Unspun I'm Amanda Sturgill. I've been a reporter, and today I teach future reporters to cut the spin and think critically about what newsmakers say. My podcast, Unspun, shows you how to know when you're being manipulated by the news, learn to spot the tricks, and how to make up your own mind about what's true. So if you're tired of being fooled by the news, subscribe to UNSPUN today. Unspun because you deserve the truth.
- [44:50]
Alison Gill
Everybody, welcome back. It's time for the good news. Who likes good news?
- [44:54]
Ezra Levin
Everyone? Then good news everyone.
- [45:03]
Alison Gill
And if you have any good news stories you'd like to submit to us, we would love to hear from you. You can just head to DailyBeansPod.com and click on Contact. And it can be anything from something great you saw today. Maybe something funny on the Internet, maybe some great stories from going to a no Kings rally or a protest near you, a Tesla takedown, something like that, some great signs that you've seen. You can share those with us. Maybe it's a shout out to a loved one or a small business in your area, or even your small business. We know, I know. We have tons of entrepreneurs and makers and creators that listen to this program. Y' all are so amazing. You can share that with us. We also like to hear dissertation and theses titles. Those are very fun. So if you've completed one of those, or you're about to, or you're working on it, we'd love to hear that. And then shout outs to government programs that have helped you or a loved one. We want to hear about that, too, including student debt relief, Affordable Care act stuff, Medicaid, medical, Medicare, Section 8, WIC, SNAP, anything at all, send it to us@dailybeanspod.com click on Contact. And to get your submission on the air, you just have to pay your POD pet tariff, which means attach a photo of your pet. If you'd like us to guess the breeds in your shelter pup, you can include those, too. We love to play that game. We're not Very good at it, though. But that's not the point, is it? If you don't have a pet, you can send an adoptable pet in your area. We'll try to find him a home. If you don't have that, you can just grab any random animal photo on the Internet. That also works for your tariff. And we're also doing bird watching, which can be an actual bird, or you and your family and loved ones and friends flipping the bird to Trump and Musk properties or pictures of them. Whatever. Whatever suits your fancy. Or maybe your local Republican politician that you want to give the middle finger salute to. Send that to us, of course. Also, we love to accept photos of your family, baby pictures. Your baby pictures, if you have them, or awkward family photos, or, you know, a photo of your happy place. Whatever. Send it to us dailybeanspot.com click on contact. Okay, first up from Mary Pronoun. She and her. Hello. My husband and I are news consumers on the regular, but your podcast is the one that gives us hope. Oh, thank you. The good news segment lifts us up after all the dark. I'm an art teacher. Oh, thank you, Mary. So most of my social media platforms are filled with creatives. The algorithm gods always give me something new and interesting. This week I saw something that reminded me of the beans. The ultimate bird photo, if you will. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did. I know that creatives are expressing our disgust in our own ways. Much love from Michigan. Hoping the link works on your end. A new interpretation of pointillism with Trump. Okay, so now I'm gonna have to go to Instagram and see this here. Oh, my. Look at this. Okay, it's a portrait. A mosaic portrait of the Orange Menace made out of a bunch of middle fingers. That is fantastic. Thank you so much for sending that pointillism. I get it. For podpet tax, I've attached a photo of our Covid cat, Suki. The cat distribution system dropped her in our laps when we needed her the most. Her favorite time of year is Christmas. As you can see, we've since switched out all of our glass ornaments. Ah, yes. Welcome to Cats and Christmas, Mary. We've switched out all of our glass ornaments for more durable ones and managed to get some pretty cute pictures in the process. Look at this sweet, adorable baby. Also, I love pinecone ornaments. Thank you so much for sharing that. And thank you for the pointillism with the bird watching. That was great. All right, next up from Breezy. Oh, my God, this cat is so hilarious. Good Morning. I'm a new listener from the deep red state of Utah and I find your podcast a breath of fresh air. Thank you Breezy. I listened to your episode with Eugene Carroll. She is fabulous. It made my day, Bracey. It made my day too. I also want to give a shout out to a nonprofit, Lasagna Love. This was started during the pandemic to help people get a hot meal and it's grown nationwide. Lasagnas are made and delivered by volunteers to the needy. My small contribution is homemade rosemary bread. It is a wonderful organization that helps people one lasagna at a time. Oh my God. I love this and I also love lasagna. I'm sharing a photo of my cat shadow. I always caption it with the day I found out Trump won the election. I will say my reaction was much more vocal with swearing and tears. Same Breezy, same. Thanks for this podcast. You are welcome. Thank you for listening. I There would be no podcast without y'.
- [49:29]
Amanda Sturgill
All.
- [49:29]
Alison Gill
I want you to know this is a two way street, so I appreciate. Although who knows, with the way the way things are going the way I am, I might just be sitting in here talking to nobody because I need to. So. But I'm very glad that you're there at the other end of the speaker. This cat is beautiful by the way, and I love the malemp. Thank you. Next up, Anonymous pronoun she and they I'm writing to shout out my local indivisible group in Montco, Pennsylvania, as well as a local group called Community for change. On July 5, I woke up feeling so down like so many days before, I dragged myself out of bed. But this day I had a plan. I was going to a picnic with my indivisibesties. These folks have been holding me up and keeping the fire inside me lit for the past several months. I don't know what I would do without them. So if you're feeling helpless and hopeless, please know you're not alone. Find your people. We're out here and we need each other now more than ever. Thank you to everyone who keeps showing up every day. And Anonymous, I think it portends well that you sent this in on the day that we had Ezra Levin on the show. Thank you for that beautiful photo by the way. Oh puppers. Next up from Anonymous attended the naturalization ceremony on July 4th. It was packed and full of joy. We welcomed 102 people from 49 countries. It was an inspiring reminder of what this country is really about. I'm sharing pics of two beautiful new Citizens, look at this. Oh, absolutely incredible. Thank you for that, Anonymous. And if you've never been to a naturalization ceremony, I really recommend you go. I really do. I wish more people would Next up from Anonymous pronoun she and her hello Laguma Queens. My good news is that Section 8 housing helped my mom. Low income housing helped my sister who was widowed after one week of marriage almost 13 years ago. Oh my God. So it's been a real tailspin for her ever since. And VA benefits help my dad afford his assisted living. Without these programs, I don't know where any of them would be and I fear that any of them could lose them at any time. But for now, it's all okay. Meanwhile, I curse the Tangerine toddler every day and share as much truth about him on social media as I can. For my pod pet tax, I give you a photo I took on Monday of a red tailed hawk that's been making its presence known lately in my neighborhood with a bonus dumbass songbird who was tempting fate. I enhanced the brightness and exposure to bring out the details, but that is the only editing I did. And just for fun, a photo of me sharing a moment with Ivy the sheep when I was a zookeeper. That was like one of my dream jobs when I was a kid, right? Everybody in Gen X wanted to be a zookeeper or a marine biologist. I'm also sharing a photo of my band, the Wag. All right, well now I'm checking out your band. Keep up the good trouble and thanks for all you do. Thank you Anonymous. The sheep photo is incredible. The hawk is beautiful. We have a red shouldered hawk hanging around. He was taking a bath in my backyard a little while ago. And look at that. Look at the band. I am in love with this band. I'm going to check this out now. And the band again is called the Wag. Thank you so much. Next up from Anonymous, she her hello Beans. I have to admit that the events of last week brought me to a new low and I had to turn off the news. I completely feel you, except for listening to my favorite podcast, which of course Daily Beans is in the top five. Thank you. The recent episode with Rick Smith, whose podcast is also in my top five, was inspirational and I'm glad he and his wife have great insurance and that she's getting better. Go Teamsters. My husband is also a teamster and I am well aware of how lucky we are for the great benefits. Indeed, everyone deserves good health care. It is a right, not a privilege. And I know this country can do better. We have to. Once the Orange Scare is out of office and we get back to being America, hopefully it'll not be too late to reverse the damage done by the Everyone is going to die. Bill, thank you for your closing words about never giving up and that it's okay not to be okay. I needed to hear that. Keep keeping on. I'm sharing pictures of Quincy Orange Bobtail and Kevin Tuxedo. I had a cat named Kevin too. Kevin is a great name for a cat. Anonymous the cat distribution system deposited them in our backyard a few weeks ago and of course we took them in. Oh my God. Congratulations on your new babies. We are getting them vaccinated and neutered and then putting them up for adoption through Furball Farms Cat Sanctuary in Faribault. MN is that Minnesota a great organization for stray and feral cats. They are truly angels. If you live in MN, they are open for visitors 247365 and they also take donations and they're a 503B so you can go to furballfarmcatsanctuary.com we would add them to our clouder of four, but six cats is one more than crazy. So they're looking for their forever home. Thank you for all you do in the positive energy you put into the pod world. You are greatly appreciated. Anonymous, you're greatly appreciated for helping these animals find homes. Look at this. These kittens. Oh my goodness. It's a fluffy orange baby and a little tuxedo. Oh my God, they're so cute. This would be a great pair to go out together. Now I have to check is what is mn? Is Minnesota okay? I just want to double check. There's so many M's that I. I get them confused sometimes. I just want to double check. It was Minnesota, by the way. I love Minnesota. It's one of my favorite states. But thank you so much for this and taking care of these kitties. And you're right. Everybody deserves health care. And go Teamsters. All right. Thank you so much for all your good news. I just feel so much better after reading it every single time. Dana I've been texting with her. She misses you guys. She reads the Good News. She loves it. Keep sending in your good news dailybeanspod.com and click on contact. Thanks to Ezra Levin Adam Klassfeld for joining me today. And we'll be back in your ears tomorrow along with, let's see a new episode of cleanup on aisle 45 with Harry Dunn as well. Check that out. If you haven't heard it. Until then, please take care of yourselves, take care of each other, take care of the planet, take care of your mental health and take care of your family. I've been ag and them's the beans.
- [55:56]
Ezra Levin
Refried beans.
- [55:56]
Alison Gill
I like refried beans.
- [56:01]
Amanda Sturgill
It's no surprise that newsmakers try to manipulate the audience. They want you to believe that they are the one holding the line and they'll use any trick they can to get you there.
- [56:09]
Alison Gill
But don't let them fool you.
- [56:10]
Amanda Sturgill
Get Unspun I'm Amanda Sturgill. I've been a reporter, and today I teach future reporters to cut the spin and think critically about what newsmakers say. My podcast, unspun, shows you how to know when you're being manipulated by the news, learn to spot the tricks, and how to make up your own mind about what's true. So. So if you're tired of being fooled by the news, subscribe to UNSPUN today. Unspun because you deserve the truth.