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The Daily Beans
Refried Beans |Random Acts of She-Ra | Dec 23, 2021
01:04:29
Dec 23, 2021In the Hot Notes: Donald files his appeal to the Supreme Court in his bid to block the National Archives from handing documents over to the 1/6 Committee; the House files for an expedited ruling in the same case; Kim Potter is found guilty on both counts of manslaughter; Biden backs a voting rights filibuster exception; Madison Cawthorn’s “Earthly Vessel” files for divorce after just 21 Scaramuccis; plus Aimee Carrero joins Allison to deliver the Hot Notes and your Good News.
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- [00:00]
Alison Gill
MSW Media. Hey, everybody, it's Ag. And welcome to Refried Beans, where we play an episode of the Daily Beans podcast from the same week either one, two, or three years ago, so we can see how far we've come. So please enjoy this episode from days gone by and note the date in the intro. Refried beans. I like refried beans. That's why I want to try fried beans, because maybe they're just as good.
- [00:26]
Ethan Behrman
And we're wasting time.
- [00:32]
Alison Gill
Larry. Daily Beans.
- [00:36]
Ethan Behrman
Daily Beans. Daily Beans. Daily Beans.
- [00:45]
Alison Gill
Hello and welcome to the Daily beans for Friday, Dec. 24, 2021. Today, Donald Trump files his appeal to the Supreme Court in his bid to block the National Archives from handing documents over to the 16 committee. An hour later, the House filed for an expedited ruling in the same case. Kim Potter is found guilty on both counts of manslaughter, Biden backs a voting rights filibuster exception, and Madison Cawthorn's earthly vessel files for divorce after just 21 Scaramuccis. I'm Alison Gill.
- [01:13]
Amy Carrero
And I'm Amy Carrero.
- [01:19]
Alison Gill
Ha ha ha. 21 Scaramuccis with the earthen vessel. Happy Christmas Eve. If you're a Christmaser.
- [01:29]
Andy Laufer
Yeah.
- [01:29]
Amy Carrero
Happy Christmas Eve. Or happy noche buena feliz noche. Bu.
- [01:34]
Alison Gill
Nice. Nice. That sounds so. That sounds lovely. That sounds way better than, you know, Merry Christmas.
- [01:39]
Amy Carrero
It does sound nice. But then usually if you're from the Latin persuasion, or I should say the Caribbean Latin persuasion, you'd be roasting a whole pig in the backyard. So not so nice for the pig.
- [01:50]
Alison Gill
No. Bad for the pig. Bad news for the pig. For real, today is going to be an interesting show. We have some tasty schadenfreude. Amy, you get to deliver that good news.
- [01:59]
Amy Carrero
Yum.
- [02:00]
Alison Gill
And I have two chats today with a couple of lawyers. First of all, Michael Cohen's attorney in the lawsuit that he just filed against the former guy in the Bureau of Prisons, and William Barr. And that attorney's name is Andy Laufer, good friend. And then Fox News slayer Ethan Behrman, who is the host of the Law Junkie podcast. We're going to talk about Kim Potter and the Elizabeth Holmes trial. So stick around for that. And then, of course, we got good news at the end. So it's going to be be a good show. And we do have a lot of news to get to. I thought it might be a slow news day. It was not. Nope. And you know, we record this is Friday's episode we recorded on Thursday. I'm interested to see what happens Friday. Usually the Friday news dump is pretty, pretty big, but you know it is going to be Christmas Eve, so we'll see what happens. But let's get to the news today. Let's hit the hot notes. Hot notes. All right. The former guy appealed to the Supreme Court on Thursday to block the release of documents from his White House to the House committee investigating the January 6 riot at the Capitol, escalating his effort to keep about 700 pages of records secret. Hours after Trump's request was filed, the House committee asked the justices to expedite their consideration of the request with a proposed schedule that would allow the court to say by the middle of next month, January, whether it was going to take up the case. The committee, which is charged with investigating the US Capitol attack to provide recommendations for preventing such assaults in the future, seeks the documents as it explores Trump's role in trying to overturn the election. That includes his appearance at the January 6 rally, when he directed followers to go to the Capitol, where lawmakers were set to certify the election results and fight for their country. The documents are currently held by the National Archives. In filings submitted to SCOTUS on Thursday, Trump asked the justices to take up a full review of the case, and he requested that while they consider his position, they put a hold on the lower court decision permitting the disclosure of his records while they consider taking up the case because he's stupid and he doesn't realize that his appeal automatically extends that stay. At issue are hundreds of documents, including activity logs, schedules, speech notes, Mark Meadows notes, and three pages of handwritten notes from him from Meadows, paperwork that could reveal the goings on inside the West Wing as Trump supporters gathered goings on the shenanigans.
- [04:28]
Amy Carrero
It's just all like doodles of like stick figures, like, here's my ballyhoo.
- [04:34]
Alison Gill
Yeah, the ballyhoo and goings on disrupting the certification of the 2020 vote. We know that the records could answer some of the most closely guarded facts of what happened between Trump and other high level officials, including those under siege on Capitol Hill on January 6th. Trump is also seeking to keep secret a draft proclamation honoring two police officers who died in the siege and memos and other documents about supposed election fraud and efforts to overturn Trump's loss of the presidency. Love the way they put that.
- [05:07]
Amy Carrero
Good grief, that's a lot. Again, is he representing himself? Like, I don't understand. Where are they getting. I don't know. It seems like no one knows what they're doing.
- [05:16]
Alison Gill
No he's got terrible, he's got terrible lawyers.
- [05:18]
Amy Carrero
Just because what, no one will take this up. That's what I it's gotta be that, right? Because like, come on, if there's an argument to have, someone will have it. But if there isn't, then you'll just get the worst of the worst anyway. President Joe Biden says he supports making an exception to the Senate filibuster rules in order to pass voting rights legislation. If the only thing standing between getting voting rights legislation passed and not getting it passed is the filibuster, I support making the exception of voting rights for the filibuster, biden told ABC News's David Muir. Muir I never know how to say that. In an interview that aired Thursday morning. It's the most direct answer Biden has given on his position on the filibuster and voting rights. CNN's Anderson Cooper asked Biden in a CNN town hall in November when it comes to voting rights, Just so I'm clear though, you would entertain the notion of doing away with the filibuster on that one issue, Is that correct? And he said, and maybe more. Since Democrats won a slim majority in Congress, Republicans have blocked several Democratic sponsored bills that seek to expand voting access and aim to end voter suppression, arguing that the proposal are proposals are a federal power grab, blah blah blah. Likely story that's led some progressive Democrats and activists to demand an end to the filibuster rule, which requires 60 votes to advance most legislation in order to pass federal voting rights protections. But Democrats also don't have the votes they need in the Senate to change the filibuster due to the position from members of their own party, including Senators Joe Manchin from West Virginia and Kristen Sinema of Arizona. In a letter sent to Democratic colleagues dated Monday, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer announced that the Senate will consider voting rights to legislation once Congress resumes in January. As early as the first week back.
- [07:10]
Alison Gill
All right, fingers crossed. Here's hoping. Here's hoping and some justice. The former police officer who fatally shot a man in Minneapolis in the suburbs after seeming to mistake her gun for her Taser was convicted of two counts of manslaughter on Thursday, a rare guilty verdict for a police officer that's likely to send her to prison for years. The jury deliberated across four days before agreeing on guilty verdicts from Kimberly Potter. She's the 49 year old white woman who testified she had never fired a gun on the police force in Brooklyn Center, Minnesota until she shot a single bullet into the chest of Dante Wright, a 20 year old black man who had been driving to a car wash. In April, Judge Regina chu ordered that Ms. Potter be immediately sent to prison and her deputies led her out of the courtroom in handcuffs as one of the relatives shouted, love you, Kim. As the verdict was read, Ms. Potter looked down briefly and then glanced at the jurors, but did not appear to cry as she did when she testified earlier in the trial. Judge chu will sentence Ms. Potter at a hearing scheduled for February. The standard sentence for the Most serious charge, first degree manslaughter, is a little over seven years in prison and the maximum penalty is 15 years. Prosecutors have indicated they will ask the judge to hand down a longer than average prison term and Ms. Potter's lawyers are likely to ask for sentencing below the standard range. And to me this was a surprising verdict, but the correct one. I didn't think they were going to be able to get her on first degree manslaughter, but they did. And Dante Wright's mother, Katie Bryant, said of the verdict today, Minnesota has shown that police officers are not going to continue to pull their gun instead of their taser. And we made this happen. You made this happen. Then Dante Wright made this happen. And finally we have Amy with a little schadenfreude.
- [08:56]
Amy Carrero
My favorite a schadenfreude. Okay. From Mark Franfelder at Boing Boing. Christina Cawthorn is divorcing her husband, Madison, a notorious pathological liar, racist insurrectionist and alleged sex pest after having been married for just eight months. Cawthorn, who likens women to earthen vessels, blames his hard work on the Capitol for the break. Okay. What? What? That makes no sense. Madison, make it make sense. A real estate investor before running for office, Cawthorn has been called a rising star of the Republican party, but has also stirred up plenty of controversy since stepping into the political limelight for including for a racist campaign statement about Senator Cory Booker and voting to over the 2020 election despite no evidence of widespread fraud. A friend has also disputed Cawthorn's claim that he was abandoned to die in a fiery tomb after being seriously injured as a passenger in a car crash that left him paralyzed when they were teenagers. They there have also been allegations of sexual harassment and misconduct made against Cawthorn by women who attended Patrick Henry college with him. Four women told BuzzFeed News that Cawthorn behaved in an aggressive, misogynistic and predatory man attending classes there. Cawthorn has previously denied ever doing anything sexually inappropriate.
- [10:22]
Alison Gill
Yeah, they were like, there were warnings like, don't go in a car, ride with him. He was the leader of what people called the douche crew when he was at Patrick Henry College.
- [10:32]
Amy Carrero
I mean, yeah. You know what really got me also with the pictures of him in, like, Hitler's vacation home, like, bucket list. Like, what? That's your bucket list, dude. I don't know. Just bad vibes all around.
- [10:46]
Alison Gill
Yeah, it's gross. Many, many believe he should be forced to carry his marriage to term.
- [10:52]
Amy Carrero
Yeah.
- [10:53]
Alison Gill
After splitting only after only 21 Scaramucci's. So there we have it. That's your schadenfreude today. Thank you, Amy. Everybody will be right back with a couple interviews with some amazing lawyers. Michael Cohen's attorney, Andy Laufer, and law junkie podcast host Ethan Behrman. Stay with us after these messages. We'll be right back, everybody. Welcome back. I'm joined by my friend who is at the Laufer law firm and is one of the two lawyers that has prepared and filed the lawsuit against Donald Trump for Michael Cohen. And it's not just Donald Trump, is it? Andy, welcome, by the way.
- [11:32]
Andy Laufer
Thanks for having me, Allison. I appreciate being here.
- [11:35]
Alison Gill
It's so good to see you. And it's good to talk to you. It's been a while since you've been on the show, and then I found out you were one of the two lawyers behind this lawsuit, and I couldn't wait to talk to you about it. So. So let's dig into it. Who are you suing?
- [11:48]
Andy Laufer
So we're suing Donald Trump, obviously, Bill Barr and a number of other federal Bureau of Prison and federal parole personnel. And the crux of the suit is essentially retaliation for Michael Cohen's lawful exercising of his First Amendment rights.
- [12:14]
Alison Gill
Right. And let's remind everyone of the story that I'm sure we all know. But when Michael Cohen's book was about to come out, all of a sudden there were requests to remand him back to prison. Tell us a little bit about kind of how his rights were pretty much just like absolutely eviscerated.
- [12:38]
Andy Laufer
Right. So basically what happened here was Michael was serving time up at Otisville, you know, no issues really to speak of up there. And because of the COVID emergency, he was granted furlough due to his having comorbidities. Bureau of Prisons agreed that he would fit under the criteria based upon what former AG Barr issued in two memorandum. So based upon that, on the furlough being granted, he was sent, he was allowed to go home, obviously home confinement after 30 days they were going to switch them over to full home confinement. So you're on furlough, and then you go to full home confinement. They put an ankle monitor on you and all those fun things. So really all it is is paperwork. Someone comes to your home where you are, and you fill out the paperwork, they put another monitor on you, they do whatever they need to do, and they go. And you just adhere to what the terms of your home confinement are. In this particular instance, what happened was instead of just having someone go to his apartment in Manhattan, he was ordered by BOP to go down to their offices in downtown Manhattan. At that time, he was presented with an agreement which governs all home confinement arrangements, with a special added paragraph in there, which is never included, essentially forbidding him from engaging in social media, discussing anything with press about his case or anything else, things of that nature, totally strangling his ability to exercise his rights and speak freely about whatever he chooses to speak about. Now, prior to all this, he was on social media like Twitter and things of that, pitching his book, would discuss Donald Trump and all the inner things that he would engage in, discriminatory things, embarrassing things that he was privy to, and, you know, say this on Twitter and put hashtag willspeaksu. So after all this, they had. They had put this paragraph into the agreement. Michael refused to sign it, and, you know, can we negotiate this? And when they went back to their supervisors to allegedly further negotiate it, none of that really happened. One of the defendants that we've named said, we're violating. You put them in cuffs knowing that he has all these comorbidities and we're in the height of a viral pandemic that's thousands of people are dying a day. And they knew that his risk for death and illness was significantly higher. Shipped him back to Otisville. First he was supposed to go to mcc, then he went to mdc. They kept him there for a while in Brooklyn, and then they shipped him back up to Otisville. Now, his attorney at the time filed a habeas petition, went before Judge Hellerstein. Hellerstein couldn't. Judge Hellerstein couldn't believe what happened here. Said throughout his order that in my 21 years sitting on the bench, I've never seen any kind of retaliation. Ruled that all the defendants named in that habeas petition, Trump wasn't named in it, but Barr and everyone else that we've named retaliated against Michael for exercising his First Amendment rights under the Constitution. Set him free immediately. So that is the basis. I know it's A little long winded here, but that is the basis for our lawsuit against these individuals under a Bivens cause of action. And we also have federal Tort Claims act claims against the United States as a whole.
- [16:14]
Alison Gill
Yeah. And all that is actually extremely familiar to me, Andy, because as you know, I got notices and recommendations about updates to the Hatch act after my podcast started about restricting my ability to use social media and to actually wasn't allowed to use Trump's name specifically. They tried to update the Hatch act without sending it through Congress. Just executive order stuff like authoritarians do, things like that. Yes. And then they had given me this telework agreement that said I had to be at my desk at home, I couldn't leave if my little messenger dot turned from green to yellow. That was a violation. I had to answer all phone calls within five rings. It wasn't allowed to go to voicemail. I had just absolutely ridiculous, overbroad and overbearing telework agreement requirements. And I'd been teleworking for a really long time. It just all of a sudden changed and I refused to sign them. And here we are today. I no longer work and you're victorious.
- [17:25]
Andy Laufer
And thank God you stuck it out. It worked out for you. I'm so happy for you.
- [17:30]
Alison Gill
Thank you. Yeah, and we stayed, you know, we stayed in the agency. Yeah. This is an amazing lawsuit. And you know, personally, because of. I know what I've been through, and on a much smaller scale, I was not Donald Trump's personal fixer. But that kind of shows how much he retaliates, like how far these tentacles go for retaliation. I'll podcast, you know, and so how can it be anything but clear that he would do this to Michael Cohen, who was about to drop a best selling book?
- [18:03]
Andy Laufer
Right. And we enumerated at least two other examples in our complaint. You know, what he did to his niece, Mary Trump, and what he did to Mustache.
- [18:12]
Alison Gill
Oh, John Bolton.
- [18:13]
Andy Laufer
John Bolton, yes, exactly. So, you know, he did the same thing there. So he has a pattern of practice of doing it. You're another excellent example of that. I mean, it's just, it's disgusting. It's exactly primarily why I entered, you know, the law and practicing this type of law. I mean, this is, this is the epitome of what we need to fight. You know, it may start out like this and, you know, comparatively speaking, we're not being thrown. Well, in Michael's case, he was thrown in jail, but we're not being beaten or shot yet. But that's you know, I mean, how far, with a Trump, like, personality would you have? How far down the road would that be? You know what I'm saying? If we get to that point where he's allowed to get away with these things, you know, if people. If we didn't have judges like Judge Hellerstein or, you know, the judicial branch to rule repeatedly against them to stand up to him and not be cowed or intimidated in any way by him. So, you know, thank God, if things worked out for you. And I'm hopeful that things are gonna work out for us as well, because, you know, we can't stand idly by and allow things like this to occur.
- [19:20]
Alison Gill
I think they should. Andy McCab is another great example, and he was able to get his retirement for the retaliatory firing hours before his retirement was supposed to kick in. So Michael Cohen's no longer in prison. The book is out. So what is the prayer for relief? What are the damages that you're looking for?
- [19:44]
Andy Laufer
Well, look, we're looking for compensation for his. Obviously there's a civil rights compensation there, but also for his time that he spent in lockup. He was in solitary for a number of days, for weeks even, and part of that was the COVID protocol. But he would never have had to go through that had they not retaliated against him. So we find that they're going to be responsible for that. There's innumerable things that they did here which I feel that are worth a significant amount of money.
- [20:13]
Alison Gill
Yeah, I don't disagree, and I wish you the best, and I hope you'll keep us posted as to how this moves along. I'm assuming there's going to be. It doesn't seem like there's a lot of good lawyers left over in Trumpville, you know, with this Michael Flynn, really sad petition for an emergency restraining order, and he failed to show injury or harm. He didn't even notify the other side. He was. Was doing it like all. Like, I am a stronger lawyer, but I'm not to dismiss. They might. Yeah.
- [20:52]
Andy Laufer
I mean, this is a 12B one, 12B six, you know, FRCP motion to dismiss that I'm assuming DOJ is going to deal with it, but maybe, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I'm fairly certain they'll deal with it. And this thing is getting tossed out. There's no basis. These lawsuits, they're there to scare people and they think it's going to drag things out, but it really isn't. They like I said yesterday on Twitter they finally got smart and asked for a tro, but they didn't even do that.
- [21:21]
Alison Gill
Right.
- [21:22]
Andy Laufer
I mean, I can't believe we've been years and years and years, and no one's asking for a tro. I mean, there's no obligation for Congress to stop, you know, doing, you know, their investigation if there's no tro, and there's no way a judge is. A federal judge is going to, you know, jump in on something like this, because it's a political act by Congress and separation of powers, and there's nothing here for a judge to really issue a ruling on that he or she would have a right to. So.
- [21:47]
Alison Gill
And there's a million judges who have said that this is a lawful official proceeding. This is a lawful. The committee has the authority. It's lawfully put together. And you're right, if judges start telling Congress what they can and can't do, that's worry. Yeah. We're in trouble.
- [22:07]
Andy Laufer
Yeah. No, that's wor. That would be worrisome. You know, I mean, that's the thing here. The center must hold. I always say that, you know, each branch has their role. I don't want the executive, you know, overtaking the legislative responsibilities, and I don't want, you know, legislative taking over judicial and vice versa. Let's, you know, we all have. They all have their. Their boundaries there, and they need to adhere to them.
- [22:27]
Alison Gill
Yeah. I just wish of the three branches that the contempt branch, the contempt rules for the. For Congress were equal to that of the judicial or the. But here we are. We'll see what happens. Anyway, I thank you for your time today. We'll keep. We'll keep. I'll keep in touch because I'm really interested to see how this goes and wish you the best.
- [22:46]
Andy Laufer
Thank you so much, Alison. It was great to be here.
- [22:48]
Alison Gill
Thanks. Andy Laufer. We'll be right back, everybody. Stick around after these messages. We'll be right back, everybody. Welcome back. I'm joined today by the host of the Law Junkie podcast, my friend Ethan Behrman. Ethan, hello.
- [23:03]
Ethan Behrman
I can't believe you're having me on the show. It is just such an honor to be here, and it's great to talk to you. I mean, really, I'm honored that you've invited me on. This is great. I'm so excited.
- [23:16]
Alison Gill
The honor is all mine, Fox Slayer. If people aren't familiar with your work frequently. See you on Fox. Just tearing into people with excellent arguments and pushback, and it's fun to Watch. It's fun to watch you work, sir.
- [23:31]
Ethan Behrman
Thank you. I appreciate that. It is a sometimes a thankless job, but I just received thanks. So thank you for that.
- [23:37]
Alison Gill
You're welcome. So when I went to bed last night, well, I. Before I was woken up by the skunk incident of 2021, there were three juries deliberating. There was the Elizabeth Holmes, Kim Potter and Ghislaine Maxwell woke up this morning sort of after the skunk incident. And we got a verdict in the Kim Potter trial and a verdict honestly that I don't think many people were expecting. She was found guilty on both counts, first degree and second degree manslaughter. I honestly thought they wouldn't get the first degree charge, but the jury came back with a guilty verdict. I was wondering what your top line thoughts were on that news that is just now breaking.
- [24:22]
Ethan Behrman
Yeah, just breaking. As you and I are sitting down together here, I am bluntly shocked on the first degree conviction, first degree manslaughter, which is different from homicide, where you're committing an act with the knowledge that you're going with the intent to take somebody's life. Manslaughter means that you didn't necessarily mean to take somebody's life. And Minnesota has a specific statute on this, intentionally causing the death of another person in the heat of passion. That in other jurisdictions is called a depraved heart murder as well. So they call it first degree manslaughter in Minnesota. There are five different types. The issue here that I was a little concerned about is I don't believe that I had seen the evidence and now I didn't see everything in the Kim Potter trial that showed the premeditation there that it was an intent to kill. And that is the difference between first degree and second degree. Second degree means that you actually negligently, which resulted in the death of somebody that I can absolutely see. But first degree, the concern that I would have my. This is my gut reaction because the news just broke is I worry that their police officers. Look, while there are all kinds of reforms that need to happen within law enforcement in the United States, this idea that all cops are bad is a bad one and it's a wrong take. Many good police officers out there, I've known many over the years. And if you're going to put them in a dangerous situation, because we do have criminals that are heavily armed in our major cities in particular, like Minneapolis.
- [26:07]
Alison Gill
Included, especially with the rise of militant groups and extremist groups, domestic terrorist groups, white supremacists, etcetera that's where my, my concern comes in.
- [26:19]
Ethan Behrman
Yeah. And so cops have to be able to defend themselves. And it's the reason we haven't gone the UK approach of cops not having firearms, because we have over 300 million guns in circulation in our country and there is a subset of people. And I grew up in Minneapolis, by the way, and I remember the murder and assassination of a police officer named Jerry Hoffman. It was a gang initiation murder of an officer, and they literally walked in and murdered the police officer as part of a gang initiation. Officers have to be armed in our country, right? Wrong or other. I wish there were no guns so they didn't have to be armed like in the uk, but we do have them. And officers have to be able to defend themselves. And if they have to now think twice or three times in the heat of the moment whether or not they're gonna be able to defend themselves, I believe we're gonna have an even harder time recruiting what you and I might believe to be the right kind of police officer. I think that's a deeply problematic outcome of a first degree manslaughter charge conviction. Excuse me. In this case.
- [27:27]
Alison Gill
Well, I imagine that this ruling will be appealed. I have yet to look at the.
- [27:32]
Ethan Behrman
Automatic appeal, by the way.
- [27:34]
Alison Gill
I'm just wondering if they might have more of a chance than something in, like the Chauvin trial, for example, to win on this. You and I have a little bit different view on, on this. But I'm interested to. To see what happens on appeal.
- [27:50]
Ethan Behrman
Yeah. And again, there. There's another example that I thought was going to be the example going into this case. So in San Francisco, gosh, was that almost 10 years ago now, a young African American man, Oscar Grant, was in on a BART station, Bay Area Rapid Transit, and a BART officer did the same exact thing that Kim Potter claimed here, which was, I thought I was grabbing my Taser, I accidentally grabbed my firearm. And in that case, Oscar Grant again was killed. But the jury did not convict the officer because there is a reasonableness in the heat of the moment that an officer could make that kind of mistake. Now, I don't think that that's a good excuse, but it's a reasonable is the standard under our existing legal system. And it's reasonable that the officer would grab the wrong weapon.
- [28:49]
Alison Gill
Right. And that's sort of where my difference lies. There is, I don't see how she could have mistaken her Taser for her gun. But does that rise to the standard, the criminal standard of proving a first degree? I'M not sure. I was frankly concerned that they wouldn't get the verdict on the first degree charge, but they would on the second and negligent homicide. So this is a different outcome, I think, than most people were expecting. I can say that with confidence.
- [29:20]
Ethan Behrman
Well, and remember, I think it's really important that it is very rare that we convict officers for killing somebody. It is very rare in this country. And so there is. This is new territory. Derek Chauvin, now convicted for the murder of George Floyd. Kim Potter now has been convicted for the first degree manslaughter of Dante Wright. So this is an interesting new pattern and it's going to be very, you know, the greater societal changes that are happening. This is going to be an interesting one now to see this pattern happening in Minnesota. And if it's going to change behaviors, are we going to have fewer police shootings as a result?
- [30:02]
Alison Gill
I hope so. I hope that is the.
- [30:04]
Ethan Behrman
Yeah, me too.
- [30:05]
Alison Gill
I hope that is the outcome. Now on Law Junkie, you are focusing pretty hardcore. Well, Ghislaine Maxwell, whatever. That lady's crazy. Guilty. But you're focused on the Elizabeth Holmes trial. And, and so I wanted you to maybe give a brief sort of breakdown about what the case is, how you felt the prosecution and defense did and what you're expecting, what the charges are and what kind of verdict you're expecting in the Elizabeth Holmes trial.
- [30:34]
Ethan Behrman
It's very interesting. Yeah. On Law Junkie show, we jumped on the Elizabeth Holmes trial because it's a fascinating one. I'm going to rewind in time just a little bit. I used to be on the air with a radio show in San Francisco, and I watched Theranos kind of explode onto the scene. And I have a friend, my best friend, one of my best friends, his wife used to work in a blood testing lab. And so when Theranos broke on the scene, I'm like, there's so much cult of personality going on here. I hate it. I'm suspicious anytime I see that. And I would kind of pick on Theranos on the air in San Francisco back in 2014. This was before John Carreyrou's expose in the Wall Street Journal that kind of ended everything ultimately for Theranos. And on Law Junkie show, we decided to pick up this case because it's fascinating. This is so different from so many other cases. And interestingly enough, we're talking about three women defendants today. And that alone makes me a little curious. You know, Silicon Valley has a tremendous track record of mostly male entrepreneurs who successfully Raise a ton of money based on, I don't want to call it vaporware, but future promises, which our society allows, our Federal Trade Commission allows a lot of leeway in terms of how we market things. It's called in the legal realm, we call that puffery. And so it's fascinating. Elizabeth Holmes dropped out of Stanford to start this revolutionary new company called Theranos that based on a single finger poke and a drop of blood, was going to be able to test just about anything, where somebody like I, who went in for a full battery of tests ordered by the doctor the other day, had to draw five vials of blood to send off to the labs. And so this was going to change everything. And she had this pedigree and Stanford and a professor at Stanford who was kind of a guide, who led her into this. And then she got the most wealthy and powerful people in the world to fund it. From the Drapers in the hedge fund world to the Larry Ellisons, George Schultz, Rupert Murdoch. Name a wealthy, powerful person, they invested. This thing was valued at up to $9 billion. But she wasn't able to necessarily do everything she was promising. And so it blew up. There was an SEC settlement related to the way she communicated with investors. That was a civil trial. And then for the last couple of years, the U.S. attorney in the Northern District of California has been working on this case. And it's criminal charges against Elizabeth Holmes and then her. Basically her partner. He was actually her romantic partner, as well as helping run the company. Sunny Balwani will have a separate trial starting, I think in about a month, is when his trial starts for wire fraud against the investors. A separate count of wire fraud against the doctors, and another count of wire fraud against the patients, and then conspiracy to commit those same wire frauds. It was a grand total of 11 counts against her.
- [34:06]
Alison Gill
And this reminds me, currently, right now, also being investigated, I think, in. Yeah. In the D.C. u.S. Attorney's office with Sidney Powell raising $14 million for her Defend the Republic PACS. A 501C3, 501C4 matching set for wire fraud, defrauding, basically raising money based on lies. Hers was the big L, obviously, quote, unquote, the big lie, which is what it will be known as from now until eternity. I'm a Cleveland Browns fan, so I know what the fumble and the drive are. So this is the big lie. And that's the same kind of. This is. Well, I should ask. This is the same sort of fraud case, right? Because she defrauded funders through misinformation well.
- [34:56]
Ethan Behrman
That'S the allegation and the jury is deliberating it as we are talking today still. And I think they might even get a whole week off. There was a jury was off the other day. We don't know exactly why that was. What's also interesting in the Elizabeth Holmes case is the jury asked to take the jury instructions home. And of course the judge in this case, depending on how you hear it pronounced, Judge Davila or Davila in San Jose, California, he said absolutely not. What, what the key here with wire fraud is, is, is it has a very, it's a US Code, what the, what the crime is. And I want to talk about this for a second because while you might hate Elizabeth Holmes and you think she did wrong, this is a criminal trial, it's not a civil trial. So you have the, the pro. All of the proof requ is it's on the prosecution to present evidence at trial for the jury to see. And the jury must conclude on each element of the crime, on each one of the charges, counts against Elizabeth Holmes, the prosecution only using the evidence as presented at trial, not what you heard, not what you read from John Carreyrou, not what you saw on Netflix, only the admitted evidence at trial, the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. That's like what, what's talked about is, that's greater than 95% sure that this is what happened. Meaning even if, even if you think, well, you know, maybe Elizabeth Holmes really didn't, then you can't find him guilty.
- [36:42]
Alison Gill
She would have to have known she was lying. And you have to prove that with corrupt intent. And I'm going to keep using this Sidney Powell case as something else we can refer to that. We're all well versed in at least the listeners of this program, proving that she knew she was lying about election fraud and in fact she had even submitted in defense of her sanctions trial that no reasonable person could believe a word she was saying. And that kind of evidence is what you could use to go toward intent. Do you think they did that in the Elizabeth Holmes trial?
- [37:26]
Ethan Behrman
So here's the problem. You have two elements of wire fraud and this is where the Elizabeth Holmes evidence looks to be dramatically different from Sidney Powell. I think the Sidney Powell case is much stronger, at least on the face of it, from what I've seen. And again, we're not, we're not privy to see everything that's going on. But however, there are no, we don't.
- [37:49]
Alison Gill
Even have charges in the Sidney Powell.
- [37:51]
Ethan Behrman
But it just Looks really bad on the face of it. Whereas Elizabeth Holmes, I was honestly a little surprised that they brought criminal charges against her because of these two elements of wire fraud. So really quickly, there are four elements of wire fraud. The first is that the defendant knowingly participated in, devised, intended, devise the scheme or plan to defraud. Okay, that's element one. Element two, and this is where it starts getting really important. Element 2 is the statement made or facts omitted as part of the scheme were material. So that means if it's, if it's a, if she lied about something, but you don't consider that to be a material fact that convinced the investors that was a key part of the investor's decision to invest money into Theranos, you already lost. Then if you can't prove that it was material in this case and it's really hard. It's not really hard. Like in the City Ball case, for example. Maybe, but, but. Or has a natural tendency to influence, or we're capable of influencing a person to part with their man on your property. That's the second element. Third element, and this is the big one, the intent element. The defendant acted with the intent to defraud. That is the intent to deceive and cheat. I'm reading the actual jury instructions from the ninth Circuit. So she had to go into it knowing I am doing this to cheat somebody. So if you're working feverishly to build a blood testing device and you. There are emails even after the John Kerry Roos story broke, even after she got rid of Sonny Baldwin, said, we're going to fix this thing. That's a huge opportunity that the defense presented in this trial to show if she intended to deceive and cheat people. Why was she still trying to get it to work even after the company started collapsing?
- [39:41]
Alison Gill
Yeah, this isn't like a Madoff situation where. That's right, you just take the money and don't do anything.
- [39:47]
Ethan Behrman
And that one's very clear too. So this is a very complex, very complicated fraud case. You know, with tens of thousands of exhibits shown at trial. It's really, it was over a three month long trial. So it's very complicated. Lots of evidence presented, a number of really important witnesses, including former lab directors, general, General Mattis was one of the people who testified at trial.
- [40:11]
Alison Gill
Mad dog, Moderate dog Mattis.
- [40:13]
Ethan Behrman
Yes, exactly. He test, he had been an investor, he had served on the board, he had felt like he had been misled. And so he was a prosecution witness in this case. And we devoted, I think an entire episode to his testimony on Law Junkie Show. But look, this is very difficult. Unlike Madoff, where it's just, it's numbers, it's forensic accounting to show he had money coming in. He never invested it anywhere. He spent all this money on his life. Boom. Elizabeth Holmes, her salary was about $300,000 a year for a $9 billion company. She wasn't running off with the money. So Bernie Madoff, that's clear. Sidney Powell, I think there's going to be some strong arguments on how that money was used in the Elizabeth Holmes case. It's challenging to show how she used the money for a fraudulent end.
- [41:06]
Alison Gill
Legal question. The material element of wire fraud, is that similar to the material element element in a 1001 charge?
- [41:18]
Ethan Behrman
I don't know. Anytime I don't know, I'd have to read the elements in the 1001 charge note specifically. So forgive me that I don't have the perfect answer for that. But generally speaking, material means it was important for whatever the decision was that was made. So a great example of that is I bought a house and you forgot to tell me that it was haunted, for example. Is that really material to whether or not somebody would have bought the house? Well, that depends on the person and the reasonableness standard that the jury will apply. So if I am terrified of ghost and I'm able to present that at trial and I have a history and even my psychologist comes and testifies now, that's a material fact that you omitted to the average person, that's probably not material. So. Or, for example, you know, paint was peeling in that room and you forgot. I asked you how many times has that room been paint repainted? And you repainted it five times and you told me three. That's not material. So I'm not going to rescind the contract. Same thing here with the investors. At least in the Elizabeth Holmes trial, some of these people were very serious about their investment. These were legitimate investors. That's all they do. They're professional investors. It's not you or me where maybe for me that made. It would have made a difference for them. Maybe it didn't. I'm not sure. And we're going to find out very quickly how the jury, how the jury finds in this case.
- [42:41]
Alison Gill
I think, yeah. The example I was thinking of that we went over recently in the show is the 1001 lying to law enforcement material. Is the lie material? Is the indictment by John Durham of Sussman, Michael Sussman, who says he materially lied because his what he said to Jim Baker in a room all by himself, may have changed the way the FBI does stuff. Maybe might have, could have possibly, but didn't have any concrete evidence of how it did change the FBI's response to how they would investigate it. And so the argument filed in the bill of particulars from Sussman's attorney was like, this isn't material. You can't. It's not material. If it might have changed the way the FBI does something, it actually had to have.
- [43:33]
Ethan Behrman
Ooh, I. I'm. Not. The way Sussman's attorney described it is very good work on Sussman's attorney's part. Remember, we're supposed to zealously advocate for our clients, and it doesn't matter how much you hate whoever or love whoever is being charged with something. It is our jobs as attorneys if we represent somebody to do our job to our fullest capabilities. But really, the majority materiality element is typically that it has a tendency to change the outcome. It doesn't actually have to change it. So. So when you're talking about what Sussman's attorney argued, it doesn't have to have actually changed the outcome of what the FBI was doing. It had to have the tendency to. Meaning, again, it's this reasonableness standard as the jury is looking at it, saying, as I observe this. Yeah. That. That could have changed it.
- [44:28]
Alison Gill
Well, the other part of the. The other part of the argument was that it was material because he, you know, the FBI didn't know that this person was working on behalf of Clinton. But actually, everybody at the FBI knew that. Yeah, everybody knew that.
- [44:44]
Ethan Behrman
I mean, there.
- [44:45]
Alison Gill
And there's a million other problems with this case, not just that one I was just interested in. In the materiality part, but that, yeah, we're going to see what happens. I. But I imagine maybe they're going to be off for. For the next week or so, and then perhaps, you know, maybe they'll pick back up. But what do you think the outcome will be?
- [45:02]
Ethan Behrman
So I give it 30% chance she's found guilty, and I think the jury might actually do something that juries technically aren't supposed to do, but they're human beings, and so they do this type of thing, which is they maybe think she did something wrong, but it didn't rise to the level of wire fraud. They might find her guilty on a lesser charge, maybe a conspiracy count, just because they're mad that she did do all of this, but it didn't quite rise to the level juries absolutely have. The right to do that. They're not supposed to, but they do.
- [45:35]
Alison Gill
Does the prosecution have to say we will, we will take a lesser charge or can they just do it without that?
- [45:43]
Ethan Behrman
I'm sorry, when I say lesser, I mean of the, of the charges against Elizabeth, one of the less serious ones, which is the conspiracy, which ultimately, actually, technically conspiracy can lead to the same amount of jail time, probation, et cetera. But typically that is not the case that you're going to get a lesser charge. I think if she's found guilty of anything anyway, and if she's not found guilty on all the significant wire fraud charges, she's getting like probation and maybe 30 days at the most. She has a newborn. There's a lot of conspiracy around the fact that she had a baby through this. And yeah, people have a lot to say. They don't. We really don't like Elizabeth Holm. I'm not a fan of hers either. But there are companies that are now successfully doing finger poke blood tests in portable machines, including in San Diego. California is one of them.
- [46:34]
Alison Gill
Yeah. Where I live. Well, thank you so much. It's been great to talk to you. Tell everyone where they can follow you and find your podcast.
- [46:42]
Ethan Behrman
Oh, so it's Law Junkie Show. We're on all the major platforms. Spotify, Apple, we have law junkieshow.com website. We take feedback there from our listeners. Obviously on YouTube or me personally is just ethanbaerman and Twitter is my most common platform.
- [47:01]
Alison Gill
Samesies, my bread and butter. Well, you have a wonderful holiday. We're gonna be off next week. We will have content. Everyone does worry. You will get content next week. But I'll be on vacation. And I hope you have some restful times until. Until the new year.
- [47:15]
Ethan Behrman
Happy holidays, everybody.
- [47:17]
Alison Gill
Stick around. We'll be right back with the good news. Everybody, welcome back. It's time for the good news. Who likes good news? Everyone. Then good news, everyone. Good news, good news. This should be good. I'm excited.
- [47:38]
Amy Carrero
There seems to be a lot of good news.
- [47:40]
Alison Gill
Yes. Christmas Eve edition.
- [47:41]
Amy Carrero
I love that.
- [47:42]
Alison Gill
Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, me too. This is great. If you have any good news you want to send in, you can send us anything, pretty much. And you can do that by going to daniellebeanspod.com and clicking on content. Use whatever you want. We're fine. We're fine with it. Really. First up from Cheryl. No pronouns given. This is a shit. Kids say. My nephew asked Alexa to play Feliz Navidad and when it started to play, he was singing Feliz Naughty Dad. His mother couldn't stop laughing. So now we have a new Christmas song. Happy holidays to all the beans Queens.
- [48:13]
Amy Carrero
Feliz Navidad. Naughty D.O.D.
- [48:16]
Alison Gill
Felicity. Dad. All right, and next up, I'll take this second one here from Tom. Pronouns, he, him, dad, Allison and Amy. More. Thanks for the sanity. That is you. Good news. I made my semi traditional holiday chocolate pie again for today's family gathering at my sister's. This is Greta Christina's chocolate pie. The spicy version. Really easy. Even I can make it. This was impossible last year due to many 2020 reasons. So far we're still gathering. Assuming everyone tests negative. My sister even brought extra test kits in case anyone couldn't find one where they live. Nice. Send me some nice.
- [48:56]
Amy Carrero
Nice.
- [48:57]
Alison Gill
Also, I am worried that my mom's wonderful assisted living home may lock her down, but so far she's good to go. I'm also happy with the James Webb Space Telescope launch that has been delayed to Christmas Day. It gives me something to get up early for. Pet tax. Yorkie in a blankie. She's snoring away. Not going to disturb her. Have a great holiday Chocolate.
- [49:20]
Amy Carrero
I have to say, say I'm a little disappointed we don't get a recipe. Where's the chocolate pie recipe?
- [49:25]
Alison Gill
I know, right? And where's the dog?
- [49:27]
Amy Carrero
Yeah, where's the dog? Wait, where is the dog?
- [49:30]
Alison Gill
Wrapped up in the burrito blankie.
- [49:32]
Amy Carrero
Oh, that's cute. Do we get a paw? Am I missing it?
- [49:37]
Alison Gill
Maybe we get a little bit of a snoot at the top there. I can't tell.
- [49:40]
Amy Carrero
Oh yeah, I can't tell either. But hey, listen, we believe you, Tom. Also, send in that recipe. We want it. Next up from Matt. Pronouns, he, him, hello, beans. Queens. I have two good news stories. Thor and Cleo. Thor is a Christmas Eve doggo and turned 15 this year. We have had him since he was six weeks old. Our void child, Cleo is especially good news. Last Christmas we spent the day at the emergency vet because she threw up blood. Oh no. We went to many vets over a few months span and found a cat specialist here in Ventura County. For months she threw up daily and lost half her body weight. Good grief. We didn't think we would have her past Halloween, let alone Christmas. We have her on meds now, not throwing up anymore and slowly gaining weight. And always wants to cuddle now.
- [50:27]
Alison Gill
Poor baby.
- [50:28]
Amy Carrero
She was diagnosed with inflammatory bowel disease, IBS or lymphoma. We know we have a limited time with her. She's getting spoiled every Day and every holiday she's going to have a big sweet 16 in February. Thank you for the shows. Happy holidays.
- [50:42]
Alison Gill
No babies.
- [50:44]
Amy Carrero
Little sleepy baby.
- [50:45]
Alison Gill
The puppy with the foot.
- [50:46]
Amy Carrero
Oh my God, that's dog is just so cute.
- [50:50]
Alison Gill
Adorbs. Next up, from Patrick. Pronouns. He and him. Dear Lima ladies. Okay.
- [50:56]
Amy Carrero
Oh, I'll take that.
- [50:58]
Alison Gill
I'm just ready to pay my second installment of Pod Pet Tax. Good, Patrick, because you were about to have to start paying penalties. The big gray dipshit with blue eyes is Frankie. The little tabby girl with my girlfriend is Vincent, named after Vinventure from the Mistborn series. I've also included another picture of Eris. Thanks for keeping us both informed and relatively sane. I also have an observation I'd like to share about Louis Gohmert. He's so dense that his Schwarzschild radius is easily several hundred feet. All right. Nice, nice, nice.
- [51:32]
Amy Carrero
Wow. Cutie.
- [51:34]
Alison Gill
The blue eyed dipshit.
- [51:36]
Amy Carrero
Dipshit. I love that. Love. Dipshit. Look at that last one, how elegant.
- [51:40]
Alison Gill
Oh, very long neck. Very Egyptian kitty.
- [51:43]
Amy Carrero
Very Egyptian.
- [51:44]
Alison Gill
Sitting up on the haunches too. Look, the front feet are up off the bed.
- [51:47]
Amy Carrero
Yes, very elegant, but also scary in the middle of the night. Can you imagine like with that posture, getting up and you're just like, what the.
- [51:55]
Alison Gill
Yeah, who the man.
- [51:56]
Amy Carrero
Sorry.
- [51:57]
Alison Gill
Hilarious.
- [51:58]
Amy Carrero
Gosh. Well, love that. Okay, next up, no name given pronouns. She. Her. Happy holidays to the world's greatest Beanie babies. Oh, man, they're killing it. Beanie babies. Lima ladies. Love it. The entire MSW network and all of you who listen every day with me. I love you all. Let's have a kick ass 2022 and get accountability for all those who tried to take down our democracy. Amen. Anyway, I am submitting a.
- [52:22]
Alison Gill
What the mutt.
- [52:23]
Amy Carrero
This is Bella. She showed up four years ago starving and covered in ticks. She is awesome. She takes great care of her three chihuahua brothers. Hint, she is a mix of five breeds.
- [52:33]
Alison Gill
Five. Get my pen. Wow.
- [52:35]
Amy Carrero
Okay, and the second pick with her and the three boys should cover my pet tax. Again, love to all. P.S. the tricolor chai chi is not being left out. He just refuses to wear clothes.
- [52:48]
Alison Gill
Of course. Of course, love.
- [52:49]
Amy Carrero
Of course.
- [52:50]
Alison Gill
All right, let's look at this baby. Okay, definitely.
- [52:54]
Amy Carrero
Scroll down.
- [52:54]
Alison Gill
Definitely some pitbull in here. Definitely some pit bull, right? How about a boxer?
- [53:01]
Amy Carrero
Boxer for sure.
- [53:03]
Alison Gill
How about a rotty maybe?
- [53:06]
Amy Carrero
Definitely rottweiler. And then we got to throw in the chow chow. Because you there in every dog.
- [53:10]
Alison Gill
Ciao. And a shepherd.
- [53:12]
Amy Carrero
You think a Shepherd. Okay, good.
- [53:14]
Alison Gill
Let's look at those toes. The toes are as long as my fingers, dude.
- [53:17]
Amy Carrero
Oh, my God. They're like fingers.
- [53:19]
Alison Gill
All right, here we go. Okay. Pitbull. Chow. Roddy.
- [53:23]
Amy Carrero
Hey.
- [53:24]
Alison Gill
Staffordshire Terrier.
- [53:25]
Amy Carrero
Terrier and bull bulldog.
- [53:27]
Alison Gill
Okay, we got three, though.
- [53:30]
Amy Carrero
That's pretty good.
- [53:31]
Alison Gill
Noice.
- [53:32]
Amy Carrero
Well, the. The chow chow is like a freebie because you're right.
- [53:35]
Alison Gill
There's chow chow on every Dog chows, man. They get around.
- [53:39]
Amy Carrero
They get around. Look at that little tiny.
- [53:41]
Alison Gill
Yeah.
- [53:42]
Amy Carrero
Oh, two baby, three tinies.
- [53:43]
Alison Gill
Oh. Oh, my God. Yeah. How many dogs are in this photo? I see four now. Okay.
- [53:49]
Amy Carrero
Yeah.
- [53:50]
Alison Gill
So cute. Babies. Next up, from Lisa L. Pronoun. She and her. And Lisa says hello. Laguminati. I recently finished Ruth Ben Guyot's Strongmen. After hearing her interview on your show, it's both depressing yet reassuring to know that, as with other strongmen throughout history, there will be an end to Trump and the big lie. I need to believe that the arc of the moral universe bends toward justice, as MLK says. I also wanted to write in response to your interview with house candidate from Pennsylvania, Ashley Ehas. She had said something along the lines of how being pro choice was also being pro family. It reminded me of an anonymous post I'd read on Reddit. The person said that they were born because their mom had been able to access abortion when she was younger. I'd never heard the abortion debate framed in that way. The access to abortion allows women to be mothers when they feel ready for the responsibility. Anyway, thank you, Dr. Allison, Dana, Amy, your guest co hosts and your guests. For helping make sense of the world, I've included a picture from last year of my rat, Sigurd enjoying his portion of Christmas dinner. Spinach, lasagna, and cranberry sauce. He has since passed, but I still have two rats with whom I will share this year's Christmas dinner. All the best to everyone at the Beans and best wishes for a fantastic 2022. I love rats so much.
- [55:07]
Amy Carrero
I love rats, too. Look how cute that rat is. Oh, my gosh. Such a tiny little portion. I don't know why. I guess because pizza rat has really changed the rules. Yeah, he's really changed the rules for all of us. So I was expecting like, a full slice of lasagna.
- [55:23]
Alison Gill
Just a giant turkey. Like a turkey leg in the mouth.
- [55:25]
Amy Carrero
Yeah, yeah. But, you know, also New York rats are different.
- [55:29]
Alison Gill
You know, different special. Different.
- [55:30]
Amy Carrero
Different animals. I mean, truly, for real.
- [55:32]
Alison Gill
Yeah.
- [55:33]
Amy Carrero
How cute. This is a very dainty, very cute rat. Love it.
- [55:36]
Alison Gill
Love it.
- [55:37]
Amy Carrero
Okay, next up, Sarah Lee. Pronouns, she, her. Hello. Longtime listener here. Almost, but not quite since the kitchen table days. Living as I do in a conservative small town in Ohio, it's hard not to get discouraged about our country's future. Your podcasts are a daily gift of hope and perspective, and you get me started in the right frame of mind every day. My family and I are doing all right, so I have. So I don't have any big news. Just this little find the cat picture. I adopted Glinda from our local Humane Society shelter a year and a half ago. She's a polite little lady with a very soft meow and definite ideas about her entitlement to adequate lap time and playtime. Wishing all the best to Allison, Dana, Amy, and the rest. And the rest.
- [56:21]
Alison Gill
Oh, I see. I see her already.
- [56:23]
Amy Carrero
Oh, there she is.
- [56:24]
Alison Gill
Tuxedo baby girl.
- [56:27]
Amy Carrero
Little Tuxi.
- [56:28]
Alison Gill
He's so cute. And she likes books. Yay.
- [56:31]
Amy Carrero
We love a cat that loves books.
- [56:33]
Alison Gill
Absolutely. All right, it's time for Amy's court. I have a friend with a young daughter. She's very sweet. Her name is Amy. Good name. Her dad. Her dad sometimes doesn't call her that. When she's very brave or kind or clever, he puts on a voice and says, she Ra shares her toys to everyone so everyone can have fun. Or she ra eats all the peas so she's even more strong, and this makes her laugh and giggle. So I was at this Christmas bash. I only showed up to honor the invitation and make an excuse to leave. Little Amy was there. I think she could see I was feeling blue. She had a candy cane, which she snapped in half and offered me the hook part. When I reached out to accept it, I said, thanks, Amy, and she shook her little head and came close to my ear so only I could hear and said, I am she Ra the case before Amy's court. Who is the real she Ra?
- [57:36]
Amy Carrero
Oh, it's Amy. Amy. Amy. The little girl Amy. No, no, no. No debate. The jury has closed the decision. I don't know legal terms, but Alison does.
- [57:45]
Alison Gill
We just do. We could just do a summary judgment, filing motion here. We don't even need to take this to trial.
- [57:50]
Amy Carrero
We don't need to. We don't need to say this. No, this is. This is an open and shut case, as the prose would say. And, oh, what a sweetheart. She sounds like such a cool person now.
- [58:01]
Alison Gill
You know what would be a great gift for sweet little Amy is a shirt that says, I am she raised.
- [58:08]
Amy Carrero
Oh, that would be cute, Wouldn't that Be cool.
- [58:11]
Alison Gill
I would wear the shit out of that shirt.
- [58:13]
Amy Carrero
I have a Shira shirt, and I wear it all the time. In fact, when I went to my. That convention in Seattle on my. My first day there, I wore the Shira shirt, and all these people dressed as Shira were like, oh, cool Shira shirt. And I was like, so you don't even know? Yeah, you have no idea. But it was very cool. And I love. I love that she wrote is, you know, inspiring this young, lovely person to, you know, do good for others and really stretch that empathy muscle. So, yeah.
- [58:45]
Alison Gill
And every time she does something awesome, she, you know, she gets to be she Ra. So that, like, would probably. That would make me want to do good things.
- [58:54]
Amy Carrero
More awesome things. Yeah. Come on. Come on. So cool.
- [58:57]
Alison Gill
Random acts of she Ra, we'll call it.
- [59:00]
Amy Carrero
Whoa. Is that a new segment?
- [59:03]
Alison Gill
Yeah. Hey, send in your random acts of Shira.
- [59:05]
Amy Carrero
Random acts of Shira. I have a question for the doctors listening. Hey, you're a doctor. Maybe you can help me with this medical question. My knuckle on my index finger is so swollen, I can't bend it. But it's just the one finger.
- [59:22]
Alison Gill
What have you been doing with that finger, Amy?
- [59:24]
Amy Carrero
Nothing. It's on my left hand, so truly nothing. Well, okay, so. So I've been. Okay, so my. I've been making my dog chicken breast, and I've been cutting it up in really small pieces because now he just eats like a human being. And we vowed never to give him human food, but here we are. He deserves the best. So I've been making him these chicken breasts, but they're kind of hard to cut. And so the other day I just noted, and I don't know why, because they're like, fresh. And I don't overcook them, but I don't undercook them either. And I was cutting and I was like, oh, my index finger knuckle hurts. And now this morning, I woke up and I can barely bend it. So if anyone has any ideas, it's on my left hand. I'm right handed. Should I ice it? Should I heat it? What? What should I do?
- [60:04]
Alison Gill
Ice it? That I can tell you.
- [60:06]
Amy Carrero
Okay, good.
- [60:08]
Alison Gill
Take an anti inflammatory. Heat can increase swelling sometimes. So ice it every. About every four hours for about 15 minutes.
- [60:18]
Amy Carrero
Fantastic.
- [60:19]
Alison Gill
And, you know, it'd be easiest to just take a glass of ice and just. Just cram your finger.
- [60:23]
Amy Carrero
All right, we'll do that. We'll do that. Thanks. Thanks, Dr. Gill.
- [60:28]
Alison Gill
It's Dr. Gill's advice. Finger Blast. A cup of ice every four hours and you'll be good.
- [60:32]
Amy Carrero
And I'm like, Doctor, Dr. Gill, my finger is black. It's fine. Just keep it in the ice, whatever.
- [60:37]
Alison Gill
Just stick it in. Love it.
- [60:41]
Amy Carrero
Okay, thanks for that. Let me know if you have any other ideas.
- [60:43]
Alison Gill
Don't go to WebMD because then it's obviously finger cancer and you don't.
- [60:47]
Amy Carrero
Yeah, and it's obviously finger cancer and, or, or I have like some sort of broken bone, which I don't think I have. I did cook a whole turkey. Use, you know, not using that. I use my hand.
- [60:59]
Alison Gill
Just.
- [61:01]
Amy Carrero
That's my bad karma for like stuffing a bird. Yeah, let me know. It's kind of a mystery. I don't know what I did. I've been, you know, doing nothing.
- [61:10]
Alison Gill
Well, this has been lovely. And it's Christmas Eve. I'm going to be traveling a little bit and taking a little time off. But you have some really great content for next week, everyone. So there will be shows and of course, if anything breaks, I'll probably record it in an airplane bathroom and send it.
- [61:30]
Amy Carrero
I'm actually very glad you're taking a few days off. You never take time off and I think it's very good.
- [61:35]
Alison Gill
Thank you. Yeah, I'm trying to do that whole take care of yourself and take care of your mental health bit that I always talk about.
- [61:41]
Amy Carrero
Right, you're always talking about it. Time to do it.
- [61:44]
Alison Gill
That old song and dance, that shtick, you know, I'm like, maybe I should listen. So.
- [61:49]
Amy Carrero
Yes. Maybe you'll get, you get a massage or something. Well, I don't know. Now this omicron is everywhere.
- [61:53]
Alison Gill
Yeah. Although, you know, every time I take time off, somebody gets indicted. But I think everyone's gonna be out next week too.
- [62:01]
Amy Carrero
Good. So let's all take a break.
- [62:04]
Alison Gill
Indeed, let's. Anyway, that's it. And everybody, you will actually, you'll hear me again this Sunday. I have the penultimate, second to last episode of the MSW Book Club. I'll be going over chapters 11 and 12 in here. Right Matters by Alexander Vindman. And then January 2nd, we do have an episode of the MSW Book Club. It's me and Alexander Vindman answering your questions.
- [62:25]
Amy Carrero
What?
- [62:25]
Alison Gill
Yeah. And then also this Sunday, Muller, she wrote. I'm going to be talking with Asha Rangappa, one of my favorite, favorite.
- [62:32]
Amy Carrero
I love, love her show.
- [62:35]
Alison Gill
She is the best man.
- [62:37]
Amy Carrero
You have the coolest friends.
- [62:39]
Alison Gill
It blows my mind. It really does.
- [62:40]
Amy Carrero
Can you have, after this, can you have a dinner party and invite me?
- [62:43]
Alison Gill
I know, right? I'm trying to figure out where to have it. Your house.
- [62:47]
Amy Carrero
We'll come down. It'll be great.
- [62:48]
Alison Gill
It would have to probably most. 99% of these folks live in New York or D.C. probably.
- [62:54]
Amy Carrero
Yeah. Okay, well, let's do D.C. let's make a field trip, a real field trip out of it.
- [62:58]
Alison Gill
Yeah. We could have a. We could have a beans con.
- [63:01]
Ethan Behrman
Yeah.
- [63:02]
Amy Carrero
Yes.
- [63:03]
Alison Gill
Yeah.
- [63:03]
Amy Carrero
I'll do the banners.
- [63:05]
Alison Gill
Okay. I'll do the bean.
- [63:08]
Amy Carrero
Not that you'll need a band. This is Alison. I wonder how many people listen and don't know what you look like.
- [63:13]
Alison Gill
Oh, well, I have posted, if you go to allisongill on Twitter, I've recently posted a photo of me in a Santa hat wishing you a merry solstice. Yule. Slash whatever holiday you do at this time of year.
- [63:27]
Amy Carrero
Well, the one that comes up on my phone is you with a foot in your hand.
- [63:30]
Alison Gill
Oh, that's a good one. That's right. You saved that one. Yeah. Because the severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer. Yes.
- [63:35]
Amy Carrero
Yeah. Oh, that's so disgusting. But I love it so much. It's right up my alley.
- [63:40]
Alison Gill
Good Mitch Hedberg joke. And so my friend is one of my favorite comedians. One of my favorite jokes. So my friend actually got me. That was a present. A severed foot in a stocking.
- [63:49]
Amy Carrero
Did they put in a stocking?
- [63:50]
Alison Gill
Yeah. Not a real severed foot. Like a. Like a Halloween. Like one that you would buy at Halloween time.
- [63:56]
Amy Carrero
Sure, sure. Huh.
- [63:58]
Alison Gill
Put it in a stocking with my name on it.
- [64:01]
Amy Carrero
That's so grim.
- [64:02]
Alison Gill
Yeah, it's pretty.
- [64:03]
Amy Carrero
Merry Christmas.
- [64:04]
Alison Gill
I've got good friends. It was one of my favorite gifts ever.
- [64:06]
Amy Carrero
It's really cool.
- [64:08]
Alison Gill
So, yeah, everyone, I'll see you Sunday, and then I'll see you a week after that. Amy, I hope you have a wonderful holiday and some good, nice time off.
- [64:15]
Amy Carrero
Thank you. You, too. And I'll see you soon.
- [64:18]
Alison Gill
Yeah. Until then, everybody, take care of yourselves. Take care of each other. Take care of the planet. Take care of your mental health. I've been AG And I've been Amy Carrero, and that was the beans. Refried beans. I like refried beans.