Refried Beans | SCOTUS Reform (feat. David Pepper) | 7/17/2024

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Daily Beans – Refried Beans | SCOTUS Reform (feat. David Pepper) | 7/17/2024

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Episode Theme Overview

This “Refried Beans” episode, hosted solo by Allison Gill (AG), revisits a Daily Beans episode from July 18, 2024, capturing a week of whirlwind news. The main theme is the rapidly escalating Democratic push for Supreme Court reform under President Biden, response to recent Supreme Court decisions, the impact of wealthy donors like Elon Musk on the 2024 race, and the defense of democracy against Republican state tactics—with a special focus on Ohio. AG is later joined by David Pepper, former chair of the Ohio Democratic Party, to discuss the controversy around the Democratic National Committee’s early nomination plans for Biden and the Republican machinations in Ohio.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Supreme Court Reform Efforts (03:32–11:40)

• President Biden is set to announce major SCOTUS reforms: term limits for justices, enforceable ethics codes, and potentially a constitutional amendment to limit presidential immunity.

• Biden’s shift on SCOTUS reform is significant given his history as Senate Judiciary Chair and prior reluctance for reform.

• The reforms are seen as a response to recent Supreme Court scandals (e.g., Clarence Thomas) and controversial decisions (e.g., abortion, Chevron deference rollback, and presidential immunity).

  “Quote: ‘I’m going to need your help on the Supreme Court because I’m about to come out…with major initiatives on limiting the court. I’ve been working with constitutional scholars for the last three months and I need some help.’”
  — President Biden, as quoted by AG (06:47)

• Congressional paths for such reforms are highly challenging, especially in a narrowly divided legislature.

2. Presidential Campaign Maneuvering (11:40–20:07)

• News of DNC’s planned virtual roll call to secure Biden’s spot on Ohio’s ballot (in response to GOP “poison pill” tactics).

• J.D. Vance, Trump’s new running mate, has not agreed to VP debates despite Harris’s acceptance of multiple dates. Trump campaign says they won’t commit until the Democratic ticket is settled.

• Elon Musk moves Tesla and SpaceX headquarters from California to Texas, blaming laws protecting trans students, and also pledges massive pro-Trump financial support ($45 million/month).

• Rudy Giuliani expresses no regret over his role in defaming Georgia election workers, attacks federal judges, and compares his predicament to WWII Japanese internment.

  “I have no regrets at all. I’m on the side of justice, right and truth.”
  — Rudy Giuliani (20:39)

3. Biden’s COVID Transparency & Schumer News (04:16–05:18)

• Biden tests positive for COVID—full medical report and transparency noted, in contrast with Trump-era secrecy.

• Unconfirmed reports (ABC’s Jonathan Karl) that Senator Schumer suggested Biden step down; AG emphasizes lack of direct confirmation and shares personal views:

  “If the president decides that the best course of action for the party is to step down, I will be [supportive]... All I can say is it better be Vice President Harris.”
  — AG (05:59)

4. Project 2025, Oligarch Influence, and Framing the Stakes (22:47–25:55)

• AG’s reflection: Oligarchs like Musk and Thiel invest heavily in Trump for “a piece of that criminal immunity” post-immunity SCOTUS decision.

• Discussion of Project 2025—the Heritage Foundation’s plan to reshape government—touches on its threats to reproductive rights, unions, military and veterans’ benefits, and LGBTQ Americans.

• The importance of personalizing the stakes for potential voters: “There’s something in Project 2025 that impacts everyone.” (25:26)

  “These oligarchs are now dying to get a piece of that criminal immunity, to capture the Oval Office because it is now cloaked in immunity…Once I started thinking about it that way, everything else made complete sense.”
  — AG (23:52)

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Notable Guest Interview: David Pepper on Ohio & the DNC Nomination Roll Call (26:42–37:19)

Highlights & Key Insights

• Background: Ohio Republicans attempted to force poison-pill amendments into state law as the price for allowing Biden onto the November ballot—a move masquerading as a routine fix but designed to undermine democracy, including attacks on abortion rights and anti-gerrymandering initiatives.

• DNC Response: At the urging of Ohio democracy advocates like Pepper, the DNC planned a virtual roll call to nominate Biden before the state deadline, rejecting the GOP conditions.

• Disinformation: Pepper refutes right-wing and “Biden must go” social media claims that the move is a “secret plot.” The DNC's plan was public and a response to state-level antidemocratic sabotage.

  “The DNC deserves some credit that they helped democracy advocates in Ohio try and expose and call out this thing. And my guess is you’re going to see that one of the poison pills…will be struck down as totally unconstitutional.”
  — David Pepper (32:18)

• GOP’s Motivation: The #1 GOP goal in Ohio is to prevent an anti-gerrymandering initiative on the ballot—the main target of their maneuvers.

• State-Level Democracy Defense: Pepper urges more national attention and support for state-level fights.

  “Too often the folks with only a federal eye do not see that the real damage to democracy is happening in states.”
  — David Pepper (29:52)

Timestamps:

• [26:42] – Interview starts: DNC’s early nomination plan and Ohio’s legislative sabotage
• [29:52] – Importance of state-level democracy fights
• [32:18] – Pepper debunks “secret plan” narratives
• [34:24] – Update on the state of Ohio’s GOP tactics and ballot access

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Biden on SCOTUS: “I’m about to come out with major initiatives on limiting the court. I’ve been working with constitutional scholars for the last three months…” (06:47)
• AG on Oligarch Influence: “These oligarchs are now dying to get a piece of that criminal immunity…” (23:52)
• Giuliani Doubling Down: “I have no regrets at all. I’m on the side of justice, right and truth.” (20:39)
• Pepper’s Direct Rebuttal: “This was literally out of a good faith moment where the DNC listened to a state whose democracy was under attack and responded.” (35:14)

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Listener Good News & Community Submissions (38:45–50:15)

• Positive stories from listeners: student loan forgiveness, John Lewis’ legacy, acts of love for LGBTQ community, creative crafting, and “blankie” nostalgia.
• Encouragement to send more good news and personal stories to the podcast.

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Important Segment Timestamps

| Topic/Segment | Timestamp | |--------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Supreme Court Reform Announced | 03:32–11:40 | | Biden’s COVID/Schumer News | 04:16–05:18 | | VP Debate Updates (Harris/Vance) | 11:40–15:46 | | Elon Musk/Tesla & SpaceX HQ Move | 15:46–19:32 | | Rudy Giuliani’s Lack of Regret | 19:32–21:41 | | Oligarch Influence & Project 2025 Reflection | 22:47–25:55 | | David Pepper Interview | 26:42–37:19 | | Listener Good News Segment | 38:45–50:15 |

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Tone and Style

• Snarky, incisive, and direct—typical of The Daily Beans’ progressive-but-grounded reporting.
• Combines factual summary with moments of humor and personal reflection.
• Guest David Pepper is forthright and insistent on fact-based correction of disinformation.

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Takeaways

• Biden is (finally) pushing for major Supreme Court reform in response to deep and recent threats to democracy, especially presidential immunity.
• State-level attacks on democracy, such as Ohio GOP tactics, are critical arenas of political conflict—national parties must be nimble and supportive.
• Oligarchic influence over the presidential race (notably Musk and Thiel) is intensifying, with dangerous implications post-immunity decision.
• Disinformation about DNC process abounds; transparency and historical context matter.
• Protecting and explaining democracy in plain language—down to “bumper sticker” simplicity—is more urgent than ever in the 2024/2026 cycle.

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Recommended for listeners wanting a deep dive into the strategic (and existential) stakes of 2024, with bonus insight into the nuts and bolts of fighting voter suppression at the state level.

Transcript

[Brian Caram]

I'm Brian Caram, and I've spent decades covering politics. Now I'm taking you behind the scenes, one interview at a time.

[Alison Gill]

Join us as each week Brian confronts the issues that matter, posing the questions you wish you could ask. No filter, no agenda, just the truth.

[Brian Caram]

We're not here for sound bites. We're here for substance. Join me, Brian Caram, every week as we cut through the noise and get straight to it. This is Just Ask the Question where curiosity will lead us to the facts. Subscribe now on your favorite podcast platform and remember, when you want answers, all

[Alison Gill]

you have to do is just ask the question. MSW Media hey everybody, it's Ag. And welcome to Refried Beans, where we play an episode of the Daily Beans podcast from the same week either one, two or three years ago, so we can see how far we've come. So please enjoy this episode from days gone by and note the date in the intro.

[Brian Caram]

Refried beans. I like refried beans. That's why I want to try fried beans, because maybe they're just as good and we're wasting time. Daily beans. Daily beans. Daily beans. Daily beans.

[Alison Gill]

Hello and welcome to the Daily beans for Thursday, July 18, 2024. Today, President Biden is set to announce major Supreme Court reform efforts, including term limits. J.D. vance has yet to accept debates with Vice President Kamala Harris. The DNC says its virtual roll call to nominate Biden will happen in early August. Elon Musk is moving Tesla out of California. Rudy Giuliani says he has no regrets over the damage he did to the lives of Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss. And Jack Smith files official notice with the 11th Circuit that he intends to appeal Judge Cannon's decision to dismiss the charges against Donald Trump. I'm your host, Alison Gill. Hey everybody. Happy Thursday. Pretty, pretty bonkers news day today. We're going to try to cover it all for you. Dana is out. She is traveling. Also with me tomorrow, John Fugelsang for Fuglsang Fridays on the Daily Beans. And later in the show today, I'm going to be talking with the former head of the Ohio Democratic Party and the author of Laboratories of Autocracy, David Pepper. He's going to join me to discuss the DNC virtual nomination of Joe Biden in Ohio. Also, welcome to all of our new listeners. We have tons of new listeners. We're glad you're here. Let your friends know if they need the news. Here's where you can find some. This is, this is where we aren't just covering wall to wall. RNC and Biden is old media reporting. So thank you for being here and supporting independent media. It is the way to go, I think. Also President Biden has tested positive for Covid. He is returning to Rehoboth beach in Delaware to rest and self quarantine, I guess. And he is vaxxed and boosted. He's having mild sympt. A full medical report has been released on his COVID test and his vitals unlike any medical reports, you know, from doctors who aren't on Trump's payroll about Trump. So thank you for the transparency, Mr. President. Also, Jack Smith has filed notice that he will appeal Judge Cannon's dismissal of the Trump charges in Florida. We will bring that to you if the appeal is filed by the time we record the Jack podcast this weekend. We'll bring you that appeal and all the details that are in it. Also, Senator Bob Menendez has told allies he will resign from Congress after being convicted on federal corruption charges. That's according to two people familiar with the conversations speaking to NBC News. Also some breaking news from ABC's Jonathan Carl saying, and I'm, I'm trying to follow this here and follow the sourcing, but we knew earlier in the day that Senator Chuck Schumer and Joe Biden had a one on one meeting and that Schumer was there to convey the thoughts of everybody in the Democratic caucus to Joe Biden. And Jonathan Karl just appeared on ABC News and said that he has been told that Schumer told Biden he needs to drop out of the race or he thinks it would be better if he stepped aside. And then he went to Chuck Schumer's office to confirm this. That means that the news, the source of this news is not Chuck Schumer. It's coming from somebody else who was at that meeting or was briefed on the meeting, but not Chuck Schumer himself. Now, Chuck Schumer, when asked, said he was relaying to Joe Biden what members of his caucus are saying. So we don't know right now whether Schumer actually thinks Biden should drop out of the race. I have contacted Schumer's office. I haven't gotten a response. Schumer hasn't made any as of, as of the recording of this podcast, hasn't made any statements about this. He's been publicly supporting Joe Biden's candidacy. So I look forward to hearing what Chuck Schumer has to say about this when he does, hopefully if he makes a statement. So I wanted to convey that news to you before Schumer Adam Schiff would be the top Democrat that was calling for Biden to step aside. And so I'm waiting on that confirmation from Schumer himself to see what he has to say about this. Obviously, if that's what he thinks, I disagree. I don't think that's the best way forward. I think Biden is the best way forward. We have 153 campaign offices and a huge bankroll and nobody who wants to replace Biden is saying who they would want to replace him with, just that he needs to step down, which I think is very telling because it seems like they want to skip over the vice president. So I don't know, we'll see what ends up happening when Schumer makes a statement. But I would disagree with that. Now, again, you know me. If the president decides that the best course of action for the party is to step down, I will be. I don't think that's the best thing for the party, but I will support whoever the nominee is. And all I can say is it better be Vice President Harris. All right. That's all I want to say about that. We have a lot of news to get to. Let's hit the hot notes. Hot notes. First up from Tyler Pager at the Post. President Biden is finalizing plans to endorse major changes to the Supreme Court in the coming weeks, including proposals for legislation to establish term limits for the justices and an actually like enforceable ethics code. Because right now while there's an ethics code, they just police themselves. And this is according to two people briefed on the plans. He's also weighing whether to call for constitutional amendment to eliminate broad immunity for presidents and other constitutional office holders. And these. This is according to people speaking on the condition of anonymity, as usual. The announcement would mark a major shift for Biden, a former chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He was the chair who has long resisted calls to make substantive changes to the high court. The potential changes come in response to growing outrage among his supporters about recent ethics scandals surrounding Clarence Thomas and decisions by the new court majority that have changed legal precedent on issues including abortion and federal regulatory powers. We're talking about the Chevron deference and we're talking about presidential immunity. Quote, I'm going to need your help on the Supreme Court because I'm about to come out. I don't want to prematurely announce it, he said, but I'm about to come out with major initiatives on limiting the court. I've been working with constitutional scholars for the last three months and I need some help, he said. And that's according to a transcript of a call obtained by the Washington Post. Term limits and an ethics code would be subject to congressional approval, which would face long odds in the Republican controlled House and the slim Democratic majority in the Senate. Under current rules, passage in the Senate would require 60 votes. A constitutional amendment requires even more hurdles, including 2/3 supports of both chambers or by a convention of 2/3 of the states and then approval by 34 of state legislatures. That's why state legislatures are so important. The details of Biden's considered policies have not been disclosed, and shortly after the Post published the story, former President Trump criticized it on True Social the Democrats are attempting to interfere in the presidential election, destroy the justice system by attacking their political opponent, me and our honorable Supreme Court. That's what he wrote. We have to fight for our fair and independent courts and protect our country. That's what Trump said. Biden's private remarks about his high court plans came More than two weeks after his performance at a June 27 debate with Trump, which prompted calls from some Democrats to step aside as the party's nominee. Among those who have rallied to his side are many liberals who strongly support calls to remake the court. Four days after that debate, the Supreme Court ruled Trump was immune from prosecution for official acts during his first term in office and that all future presidents will be immune. And then, of course, less than an hour after that, Biden called Lawrence Tribe, constitutional law professor at Harvard Law School, to discuss the ruling. And the arguments, quote, this decision today has continued the court's attack in recent years on a wide range of long established legal principles in our nation, from gutting voting rights and civil rights to to taking away a woman's right to choose to today's discussion that undermines the rule of law of this nation. That's what Biden said and I'm quoting in public remarks later that day, I would say people's right to choose. The next week, Biden called Lawrence Tribe again and the two discussed a Guardian opinion piece that Tribe wrote endorsing reforms to the court. Among the options discussed term limits, an enforceable ethics code and the constitutional amendment to address immunity. Tribe confirmed he spoke with Biden but declined to comment on their discussion. And eight Democratic senators have co sponsored a bill that would establish 18 year terms for Supreme Court justices, with new justices appointed every two years. The nine most recently appointed justices would sit for appellate jurisdiction cases, while the others would be able to hear original jurisdiction cases or step in as a substitute if one of the most recent, 9 is conflicted or cannot hear a case for another reason. And if they're conflicted, they should actually have to recuse themselves. Next up from New York, 1. Vice President Kamala Harris has accepted three dates for vice presidential debates against J.D. vance, but the Trump campaign says they won't commit they won't commit Vance to the debate, saying that arguing with Joe Biden's future on the ticket is in dispute. They say that we don't know if Joe Biden's going to be on the ticket because of Adam Schiff, and they can't agree to a debate without knowing who Vance's opponent will be, despite Biden's repeated insistence that he's staying in the race. Quote, we don't know who the Democratic nominee for VP is going to be, so we can't look at a date for their convention. To do so would be unfair to Gavin Newsom, JB Pritzker, Gretchen Whitmer, or whoever Kamala Harris picks as her running mate. That's what Trump campaign senior advisor Brian Hughes said in a statement. Now Newsom, Pritzker and Whitmer are all popular figures in the party and often discussed candidates to help lead the party in a post Biden era. That trio of governors as well as Harris continues to support Biden publicly. Harris agreed to the debate set to be hosted by CBS in May. She agreed long before Vance was named to the ticket. Quote, now that the Trump campaign has selected a running mate, we encourage them to agree to a debate between Vice President Harris and Senator Vance. That's a quote from the campaign. Now, Harris and Vance had their first conversation on Tuesday after the Ohio senator was tapped by Trump to join the ticket, but they did not settle on terms for a debate. In an interview on Newsmax Tuesday, Vance said, obviously we want to debate Harris because it's important for the American people to see the contrast. Harris, in her congratulatory voicemail to JD Vance on his selection on Monday, urged him to accept the CBS debate, and Vance returned Harris's call on Tuesday and the pair exchanged pleasantries. That's according to a person familiar, and a second person told the outlet that they shared a desire to debate but didn't discuss specifics. Vance is set to headline the third day of the RNC Wednesday, and in a video released earlier Wednesday ahead of his speech, Harris called Vance a rubber stamp for Donald Trump. Make no mistake, JD Vance will be loyal only to Trump, not to our country. She goes on to say Vance would have gone along with Trump's wishes for his vice president to refuse to certify Joe Biden's election win in 2020, making a distinction between him and Trump's previous vice Mike Pence. I'd also like to add that while Vice President Harris said JD Vance will be only loyal to Trump, I think he would also be loyal to Peter Thiel and Elon Musk, who bought him, who bought his candidacy now. Then Vice President Pence certified the results we know in 2020. Despite pressure from Trump and his allies. Earlier this year, Vance told ABC News in an interview he would have told the states like Pennsylvania, Georgia and so many others, we need to have multiple slates of and I think the US Congress should have fought over it from there. Not good. Harris also called Vance a rubber stamp for Trump's agenda, criticizing him for his views on abortion and in vitro fertilization and accusing him of wanting to target programs like Head Start focused on early learning and development. And of course he wants to go after Medicare. And don't be fooled by the New York Times. Vance advocates for a national ban on abortion, but the Vice president, Kamala Harris said we're not going to let that happen. Next up from CNBC, SpaceX CEO and ex owner Elon Musk said Tuesday he's going to move the headquarters of both companies from California to Texas. Bye. Musk had vowed to make the moves in response to Gavin Newsom's new law that bars school districts in that state from requiring parents to be notified of a child's gender identification. Newsom signed the law on Monday and Musk said this is the final straw. Because of this law and so many others that precede it attacking families and companies. SpaceX will now move its headquarters from Hawthorne, California to Starbase Texas. That's what Musk said on Twitter. He later added that the headquarters will also move from San Francisco to Austin. The Twitter headquarters quote, I did make it clear to Governor Newsom about a year ago that laws of this nature would force families and companies to leave California to protect their children. Seems like it's the opposite of protecting the children. In 2022, People magazine reported, Elon Musk's then 18 year old daughter was granted permission to legally change her name and gender to Vivian Jenna Wilson. She shed the Musk family name and took the maiden name of her mother, Justine Wilson instead. When asked about the estranged transgender daughter in October of 2022, Musk told the Financial Times, can't win them all and claimed to have good relationships with his other children. Musk also told the Financial Times his daughter's decision was caused by neo Marxists at educational institutions. Musk recently endorsed former President Trump and is now going to contribute $45 million a month to a pro Trump super PAC called the America Pac. Trump is expected to roll back transgender rights if elected president. It's all over Project 2025, the 19th News reported, citing a February 2023 Trump campaign video that his proposals would terminate Medicare and Medicaid funding for hospitals that provide gender affirming care to trans youth, attempt to criminally charge teachers with sex discrimination for affirming students gender identities, and he plans to order federal agencies to cease all programs that promote the concept of sex and gender transition at any age. Any age. The American Academy of Pediatrics and other major medical organizations, including the ama, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the World Health Organization, they all support giving transgender adolescents access to the health care that they need. And on Tuesday, Governor Newsom shot back at Elon Musk in a post on Twitter saying you bent the knee and included a Screenshot of a 2022 post on truth Social in which Trump had berated Elon Musk. Now this next story is from cnn. Former Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani says he has no regrets about falsely accusing two Georgia election workers of rigging the 2020 election so the financially and morally bankrupt, permanently disbarred and criminally indicted former May of New York has no regrets. I have no regrets at all, he said. I'm on the side of justice, right and truth. That's what he said in an interview Tuesday on the convention floor at the RNC in Milwaukee, where he repeated his past denials of having defamed the former New York City mayor and one time attorney for former President Trump, who isn't an expected speaker at the convention this week, compared his legal plight to the Japanese internment during the Second World War. That's what he's comparing his legal plight to. In December, Giuliani was ordered to pay $148 million to Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss for defamation. His bankruptcy case was just dismissed. We went over that. So Freeman and Moss as well as other creditors are free to start seizing his assets. Giuliani attacked the federal judges who oversaw the defamation case filed by the two election workers as well as his bankruptcy case, calling the judges bloodthirsty and ridiculous. Always the victim. Giuliani also falsely claimed that Freeman and Moss's legal bills were being all paid for by President Joe Biden. I think he should be sued for defamation again. The Mother and daughter were represented pro bono by a prominent law firm and an advocacy group called Protect Democracy, which has pursued Giuliani and others who tried to subvert the 2020 election. Their case provided a searing glimpse into the harassment election workers suffered while prominent Trump supporters spread lies about the 2020 election. Giuliani is separately fighting criminal charges in Arizona and Georgia related to Trump's efforts to undermine his electoral loss, and he has pled not guilty in both cases. Earlier this month, he also lost his law license in New York because he had pushed false information in a court challenging the election results on behalf of Donald Trump. And he is probably just about to lose his law license in D.C. as well. I give it another week or two before he does. And before we go to break and before we bring David Pepper in to talk about the DNC and their virtual roll call, I just want to sort of explain kind of where my mind was at this morning when I got up and I started thinking about Elon Musk basically buying J.D. vance's candidacy as vice president with a $45 million a month pledge to Trump and his work to try to get out the vote for the Republicans, including mail in ballots, which they all say are just too rife with fraud. They now know that they've shot themselves in the foot by promoting same day voting in person voting. And so now they're trying to walk that back. And Elon Musk is going to fund it. It's going to fund those efforts. And I was trying to, you know, way back in the day when I started the Mueller investigation, and it started to dawn on all of us that if you frame everything Trump does, if you put it in, in reference to him wanting to make Putin happy, everything made sense, right? That he was transactional. If you think about him being transactional and a narcissist and a misogynist, you can sort of understand, like, the way he conducts himself and the decisions he makes make more sense in that frame, in that framing. And then I recalled how when Elon Musk bought Twitter, when it occurred to all of us that he bought it to wreck it, then everything that he did made sense in that framing. And so now I think about American oligarchs like Peter Thiel and Elon Musk and them throwing insane amounts of money at the Trump campaign. And I keep landing on this framing, the framing that Ketanji Brown Jackson warned us about on the April 25 oral arguments for Presidential Immunity, where she said, I envision like a, I'm paraphrasing a dystopic future where the Oval Office becomes the seat of criminal activity in the United States. So when you think about all of the rich people, the oligarchs, the oligarchy, the American oligarchy, throwing money at Donald Trump, they're trying to buy a piece of criminal immunity because the Oval Office is now cloaked in it. So anything, if Trump is elected that he does, or anybody he speaks to, that is considered an official act. And if he appoints Musk as an ambassador to something, then any discussion they have will be immune. Not only immune from prosecution, but can't even be used as evidence in private criminal behavior. So that when I start thinking about all of the wealthy people in this country, whether they sit atop a news conglomerate and donate to Trump, or whether they are like Elon Musk or Peter Thiel and are throwing millions and tens of millions of dollars at the Trump campaign, all I can think is that these oligarchs are now dying to get a piece of that criminal immunity, to capture the Oval Office because it is now cloaked in immunity. Any conversation that goes on in there with the president is barred from being used as evidence in a criminal trial. And once I started thinking about it that way, everything else made complete sense. Everything. So now it is up to voters not just to elect the right person for the job, but a step further to protect the Oval Office from bad actors, from those who would seek to exploit the criminal immunity bestowed upon the Oval Office and the presidency by the Supreme Court, which has been captured by the wealthy as well. So I know that's pretty deep. There's a lot of nuance there. I'm trying to figure out how to get it down to a bumper sticker. But for now, I think the thing that you should be talking to your family and friends about who might not be interested in voting. Voting is everything that's in Project 2025. Everyone in your life who isn't really big on voting or thinks they're both the same, or it's just not worth heading to the polls. There's something in Project 2025 that impacts everyone, whether it's the right to choose, whether it's veterans benefits that are going to be slashed, compensation and pension for veterans, whether it's union workers they want to do 160 hour work month or some crazy shit. So maybe that person in your life is a veteran or in the military, which because they want to cancel BHA and military benefits, or maybe the person in your life is a member of a union or perhaps the person in your life that you need to talk to has a uterus. There's something in Project 2025 that will impact all of us. Maybe the person in your life is an immigrant or lgbtq. Find out what that is. Find those people and find out what that new policy, that new Trump policy is that will impact them. And have that discussion with them and say please for me. For you. I remember talking to Stephanie Cough Lincoln's Bible at our live show in New York, and she's personally touched by gun violence. And she says, it's not above me to beg the people in my life to please vote blue up and down the ticket. And speaking of voting blue and nominations and presidential elections, I am going to be joined right after this break by our good friend David Pepper. He's the author of Laboratories of Autocracy, and he's also the former head of the Democratic Party in Ohio. So you don't want to miss this interview. Stick around. We'll be right back.

[Amanda Sturgel]

It's no surprise that newsmakers try to manipulate the audience. They want you to believe that they are the one holding the line, and they'll use any trick they can to get you there.

[Alison Gill]

But don't let them fool you.

[Amanda Sturgel]

Get unspun. I'm Amanda Sturgel. I've been a reporter, and today I teach future reporters to cut the spin and think critically about what newsmakers say. My podcast, Unspun, shows you how to know when you're being manipulated by the news, learn to spot the tricks, and how to make up your own mind about what's true. So if you're tired of being fooled by the news, subscribe to UNSPUN today. Unspun because you deserve the truth.

[Alison Gill]

Hey, everybody. Welcome back. I'm happy to be joined today by the former chair of the Ohio Democratic Party and author of Laboratories of Autocracy, David Pepper. Hi, David, how are you?

[Brian Caram]

Hey. Great. Great to be back with you.

[Alison Gill]

It's good to see you again, my friend. I know we've had you on the show before, and I wanted to bring you on today because apparently somebody hit a hornet's nest with a baseball bat. Because recently, this week, I am seeing a lot of folks, particularly those who want Biden to step aside, coming out and saying there was a big DNC secret meeting to nominate Joe Biden early. And, you know, that's a big controversy. It's a secret. It's sneaky, and everybody needs to know about it. And I just wanted to remind everybody that on this program on May 29th of this year. David, I read a story that said that Matt Cohen at Democracy Docket wrote that the DNC will officially nominate President Joe Biden as its candidate for the election earlier than planned in order to ensure he appears on the Ohio ballot. For the past several months, I said Ohio lawmakers have engaged in a heated back and forth. Republicans in the state Senate slipped in legislative poison pills unrelated amendments to essentially grant the state Republican leaders with more legal power into the Senate version. Senate Bill 215 that was rejected by Ohio Democrats. This is not a secret. At least it wasn't for me and anybody who listens to this program. We have known about this plan because, you know, the convention for Democrats is August 19th and the ballot cutoff is August 7th. So they were going to virtually nominate Biden early so that he could get on the ballot without having, you know, to vote for these poison pills of autocracy that the Republicans wanted. And then, you know, we had all sorts of folks from the DNC coming out on social media saying, this is not a secret. This has been publicly planned for a long time. Can you talk a little bit more because you put out a really great thread about what the Democrats were doing and the DNC was doing to try to call Republicans bluff months ago.

[Brian Caram]

Sure. Thank you for having me. And as I mentioned, I've kind of been off the grid, so I didn't know I was stepping into that hornet's nest when I was. But I saw a little bit of this chatter, you know, what's his plan for the virtual roll call and what's this about? And so it was almost helpful that I had been part of the sort of seeing the hornet's nest because I tried to explain exactly what happened. And what happened was Ohio was the only state in the country and also the only time in our history because this has happened all the time in Ohio, where the extension of the nomination process took place in Ohio with conditions attached. Even Alabama, who also needed to extend their deadline, did not attach conditions to their extension. Only Ohio Republicans, as part of their long term attack on democracy, including the issue one last year, remember how they tried to raise the threshold? This was simply an extension of that nonstop attack. So they basically said, we are gonna only extend if the following things also happen. But they wanted to make it look as if they were trying to do Biden favors. And once you see J.D. vance and far right Christian groups and others praising something putting Biden on the ballot, most of us hopefully, no, something's up and you covered it. Exactly. Right now the bad part was they accomplished the gaslighting when they initially proposed this. And I spent weeks trying to explain to people beyond Ohio, this is not what you think it is. This is a terrible precedent. If every state going forward begins attaching poison pills of democracy to things like extending a deadline so a candidate for president is on the ballot, we're going to go straight downhill and every state's going to do it. And so there's a lot more that happened. And I've tried to describe it. The DNC listened. What this was was the DNC listening to those of us who care about democracy in Ohio. When we said, this is not what you think it is. This is basically an attack on democracy, disguise. It's a Trojan horse making it look like it's to help Biden. But it really was at one point they had a really nasty way to undermine abortion rights as part of this thing. Then they were going to do a variety of things and it still basically led to an unconstitutional law that's now in court. But all of it was a disguise to try and make it look like it was the buy and ballot fix. The dnc, to their credit, called it out. They called the bluff and they said, we're not going to play this game with Ohio Republicans who can't stop attacking democracy. Instead, we're going to do the virtual roll call. That's why this all happened. And you know, one of my frustrations in life as someone who's always writing about this stuff, is too often the folks with only a federal eye of the world do not see that the real damage to democracy is happening in states, gerrymandering this type of thing. And so it actually was a great moment for the DNC to say we're willing to adjust our federal process to help those championing democracy in states actually try and win. And so that's why this all came up. I think generally it's good to keep to what they committed to. So it looked so the Republicans realized they meant it. It wasn't just sort of a symbolic thing. I don't mind that it was delayed, but I do think that when I see we have enough disinformation on the far right, when I see people saying that this was some kind of secret plan, secret meeting and all this other stuff, I don't have a dog in the fight. I'm just telling you from Ohio that's not true. The DNC deserves some credit that they helped democracy advocates in Ohio try and expose and call out this thing. And my guess is, you're gonna see that one of the poison pills that was attached to this will be struck down as totally unconstitutional in the coming months as well. Yeah.

[Alison Gill]

And it seems to me like the Republicans were holding this ballot hostage. They were essentially saying, you can have your presidential candidate on the ballot. You just have to give up your issue one fight. You have to give up your voting rights. You have to give up. I mean, they were putting all sorts of poison pills in these things, and the DNC fought back. They said, we're gonna nominate early, virtually with a roll call. And then the GOP party in the state backed off and went ahead and fixed this thing so that there can be a clean nomination.

[Brian Caram]

Well, there's still a problem to it. They backed off some of it because they were kind of exposed, but they still have. They're still trying. The number one goal, just so everyone beyond Ohio knows this, their number one goal is to stop the initiative that's on the ballot this year to end gerrymandering. That is their true fear. And the heart of the poison pills, and even the one that remained, although they backed off others, is still something that they think will allow them to sort of really create havoc around our current gerrymandering issue that is on the ballot. So it's. And that's the thing that's in court. But, yeah, this was all a ruse to go after our democracy, like, issue one. And again, like you said, the dnc, to their credit, listen to Ohio. And oftentimes states get run over in these conversations. Right? We get run over. In this case, what's so frustrating is, you know, we can have all sorts of debates right now about Biden and all of it, but in this case, the DNC is literally being attacked for actually having done the right thing for a state that was. That has been suffering one attack after the next against its democracy. In this case, those of us know how appreciated what the DNC did.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah. And so now we're at a point where they've moved the virtual roll call, it looks like, to early August to make the ballot deadline. The DNC has done that now that it looks like they aren't going to have a problem with the gop, although this one issue is still being battled out in the courts, but that he will be nominated before the ballot deadline virtually, and not next week, which I think is what everybody was, you know, screaming about, oh, God, next week gonna, you know, they're gonna sneak it in and it'll be too late and all this other stuff. And so I think that The I think that at every point along the way the DNC has been transparent about this. Like I said, I reported it here on May 29th.

[Brian Caram]

Yeah.

[Alison Gill]

And you can go back and listen to that episode, the daily beans on May 29th where we talked about this from democracy docket, which is an invaluable source.

[Brian Caram]

And I wrote substack articles the exact same time. And part of my Twitter included that, yeah, I think it's fine, they delayed it. And you know, if some crazy decision happens that Biden tomorrow announces he's not running, of course they can still modify what I don't think was fair was using this virtual session as some kind of, oh my gosh, we've caught people doing something wrong. No, this was literally out of a good faith moment where the DNC listened to a state whose democracy was under attack and responded. And frankly, long term, we need more of that, not less. And the idea that people are flipping that into some kind of really negative thing to me is just, it's just not accurate. So my number one goal was just to set the record straight. I had someone on Twitter say, well, maybe you didn't. Maybe I was fooled by the articles. I was at the legitimate, the legislative session. I watched this. And by the way, one other thing, Republicans, some Republicans were the ones who stood up and explained why some of what they've done is unconstitutional. So we saw this up close. Ohio Democratic activists made calls to try and stop this. So we were in the front line watching it all play out. And that's why the DNC acted when they acted. People were so happy about it.

[Alison Gill]

Well, I thank you for keeping a close eye, a close watch on democracy in Ohio. I know that you care a lot about the politics there and the voters rights and people's rights and preserving those. And I highly recommend everybody pick up Laboratories of Autocracy. It's a really incredible book. And tell everyone else where they can find you and your newsletter and everything on social media so they can stay up to date on the latest from Ohio.

[Brian Caram]

Thank you so much for saying that and I appreciate all your lifts of when I put stuff out there. I'm avidpepper on Twitter. I'm substackavidpepper. I put this stuff about every day including, including today where I explain this in more detail and as you mentioned, the book as well. But between Twitter, if you like short stuff, I'm active on Twitter. If you'd like longer stuff, you can find me at substack.

[Alison Gill]

Awesome. Thank you so much. Former chair of the Ohio Democratic Party author of Laboratories of Autocracy, David Pepper, thanks for joining me today.

[Brian Caram]

Thanks so much, everybody.

[Alison Gill]

Stick around. We'll be right back with the good news after these messages.

[Brian Caram]

We'll be right back.

[Alison Gill]

Diamond Dames, mount up. I'm Charlotte Clymer. And I'm Alison Gill. Hey, Charlotte, what if you and I joined forces to create a weekly podcast amid all the chaos of the news to chat about the most recent episode of season four of TED Lasso? Well, Allison, we'd be taking delight amid the spite to sit and write and bring some light on Wednesday nights. I mean, look, everything right now is ridiculous. I know we're all stressed out with the state of the country and we all deserve some joy. Ted Lasso was there for us in

[Brian Caram]

the middle of the pandemic, and he's

[Alison Gill]

back to offer us a respite from Trump 2.0 right before the midterms. That's right. We believe in Rom communism. I mean, if Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan can go through some heartfelt struggles and still end up happy, then so can we. So subscribe to Diamond Dance Games for free right now to get notifications. And then you can join us every week after each episode of ted Lasso Season 4, wherever you get your podcasts.

[Brian Caram]

And remember, be a goldfish.

[Alison Gill]

Diamond Names dismount, barbecue sauce, Everybody. Welcome back. It's time for the good news.

[Brian Caram]

Who likes good news, everyone? Then good news, everyone.

[Alison Gill]

Good news. All right. We really, really, really, really, really need your good news this week. Please send it to us. If you've been thinking about sending in a good news story, even if it's just something cool that happened to you in 2014 or, you know, or, you know, if you want to send in your pod pet photos and if you don't have a pod pet, you can send an adoptable pet in your area. Any animal photos, especially baby animals. Dana will be back tomorrow. Send your baby pictures in. Send your. Go find your photo. I know you've got one in your phone. Either of a photo that it's a photo of a photo or a actual baby photo in your phone, send that to us. We would love to see it. If you have any stories about any blankies or stuffed animals or wobies that have been in your life forever, I, I would love to hear about, about that. If you have a shout out for us, whether it's a, a loved one parent, a kid, somebody awesome in your community, doing incredible, awesome community. I want to hear about that. You have a small business in your area that could use a boost. Let us know about that. If you have a small business you want to talk about, any self shout out is really great. Are you about to get or did you just get a degree? Tell us what your thesis was, tell us what your dissertation title was. And of course shout outs to government programs like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Pact, Chips, VA, Healthcare, WIC, SNAP, Section 8. Any great government program that has impacted your life or the life of somebody that you love, especially student debt forgiveness. Send those to us and anything else really that you that you're inclined to send. And you can do it by going to DailyBeansPod.com and clicking on Contact. First up, I have a submission from Ollie Pronouns they and Them hello Beans Queens I've been a regular listener and a fan for the past few years, and I always admired the sheer amount of research it takes to bring the news to us, as well as your dedication to making sure your sources are reliable and accessible to your listeners. That being said, when listening to Wednesday's pod, I was a bit concerned over Dana's speculation about whether or not Trump was actually shot. I don't know if adding on to the doubts and conspiracies arising from the shooting helps. There's already so much wild guesswork winding everybody up. It may be a boring take, but I really think the best approach to take when little information is available is to avoid speculation and stick to what we know. There was a shooting at a Trump rally, someone did die, some were injured, including the former president. Whether the injury was caused by a bullet or glass doesn't matter in the end, but if medical reports do come out and prove it one way or another, coming out on the wrong end of it can cast a shadow of doubt over the reporting you do. Okay, Ali, that's fair. Yeah, I think our concern, Ali, is that we don't have the transparency and that the media demands ultimate transparency from the Biden campaign and demands nothing from the Trump campaign. Ali goes on to say, as much as I too would love to see the former guy is over exaggerating his wound, I can in good conscience accept or spread any doubt. Until we know all the facts, all those facts may never come to light. Which only means we need to become comfortable with accepting we may never know the answer. It's no fun, I know. I'm looking forward to hearing your reporting as any new information comes to light and remain a huge fan and supporter of your show. Wishing you both the best. Ollie, thanks. But yeah, I think. I think the story is that people don't have the answers. Not necessarily the answers themselves, if that. If that makes any sense. All right, next up, Valerie in Oregon. Pronouns she and her. It was fantastic to see you. The Daily Beans Queens in Seattle. Although I was sad that it didn't turn out to be the same day as Trump's sentencing date. I am the mother of four great kids, including a trans kid, and it felt good to be in company of so many fired up, kind hearted, smart, caring voters. My good news is that my husband's student loans were just zeroed out under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program. We had more than paid back the principal, but the interest remained overwhelmingly massive. His previous application had been denied under Betsy DeVos, but President Biden made his approval possible. Not only was the balance forgiven, we received a check for the extra payments we shouldn't have had to make under the provisions of the program. Everyone make sure you apply, even if you think you may not be eligible. Valerie, thank you. I'm so glad you were able to come to the show in Portland. We had so much fun. Next up from Robin Pronoun, she and her hi Beans Queens. Like most of your listeners, I've been feeling overwhelmed, alarmed and despairing about all the recent events. But to help counter this negativity, I wanted to recommend a great book, John Lewis In Search of the Beloved Community by Raymond Arsenault. This incredible human being fought for a better world for all of us. Almost dying at the Edmund Pettus Bridge in 1965 when I was just 18 months old in 2017, he said, do not get lost in a sea of despair. Be hopeful, be optimistic. Our struggle is not struggle of a day, a month or a year. It's the struggle of a lifetime. And that he said at his last annual commemorative walk on the bridge in 2020, a few months before he died, he said, we cannot give up now. We cannot give in. We must keep the faith and keep our eyes on the prize. We must go out and vote like we never ever voted before. John Lewis fought for my entire lifetime and never wavered in his belief that we could overcome hatred and bigotry. And I'm determined to keep his vision alive and make good trouble. I'm writing this submission on July 17, the fourth anniversary of his death at age 80. Here's a photo of my dog Pip, wearing his get out the vote T shirt. Let's go out and make John Lewis proud. Thank you for that. Again, the book is called John Lewis In Search of the Beloved Community by Raymond Arsenault. Thank you so much for that and beautiful pupper hair. Thank you so much for sharing. So cute. Love the get out the vote shirt. All right, next up from Julianne Pronoun. She and her dear beans queens. Thanks for all you do and especially for the laughs and the good news. These past couple weeks have been rough and I can feel the effects of the stress in my body. To return my focus to the positive, I'll share some of my own good news that gave me a boost of energy and positivity yesterday. During challenging times, having the opportunity to help others and make a difference, even in a small way, is a gift. I couldn't agree more, Julianne. I recently experienced this gift when the pastor of a local church reached out to me with a unique request. One of their parishioners had painted a large rock with a rainbow in honor of Pride Month, which they displayed by the front door for all to see. Unfortunately, someone had smashed the rock, leaving the broken pieces behind. The pastor, familiar with the concept of Kintsugi, found me by searching online. I have an Etsy shop, by the way, Art by Julianne, where I sell inspirational paintings and art kits, including Kintsugi Hearts. I hope I'm saying that correctly. When we spoke, I explained that my work involves Kintsugi inspired paintings on paper. And while I had mentioned some pottery for personal use, I had never repaired a rock. Nonetheless, I was eager to take on the challenge and agreed to research and mend the rock. I enjoyed the challenge and successfully repaired the rock and returned it to its place as a symbol of love, perseverance and transformation. As a token of appreciation, I received a beautiful bouquet of rainbow colored flowers. I've shared pictures of my two cats previously, so today I'll share a photo of my son's cat who loves to hide under paper. See if you can find her. This is incredible. Absolutely wonderful. That's so cool that the pastor sought you out somebody who could do this and it worked just great. And look at the cat. Okay. Yeah, I have a cat who hides. I put hides in air quotes like this thinks we can't see him and the flowers are beautiful too. That's a great thank you for that story. Wonderful story. Next up from Nicole. She and her hi Agdg and the Queeniest of Beans. I want to share my love of crocheting gifts for friends and family. I learned a variety of stitches and how to read patterns from my mom, grandmother, and at the time future sister in law dating back to the early 2000s. I made a few blankets and some mittens, hats, scarves, for my kids, both born. Well, they were born in 2013 and 2016 when the pandemic hit and work friends had babies. I made nine baby blankets from 2020 to 2022 and sent them in the mail. Since the baby boom has died down, I now make cat centric items like cat beds and cat coasters. We have a 12 year old orange tabby brother, two 12 year old orange tabby brothers, Banzai and Ollie that absolutely share a brain cell and were named for past Washington Capitals players Peter Bonder and Olaf Koltzig. I encourage anyone who wants to learn to crochet or knit. Check out all the YouTube tutorials. Search online for free patterns, join knit and crochet groups and make cute things for your friends or make items you can donate to hospitals, senior living centers or to those in need. I have included pictures of our tabby boys and some crocheted items I've made for them. Thanks for all the swearing, Nicole. And look, okay, there's a cat bed which is beautiful. Love that yarn. That's lovely. Okay, another one. Hi. Orange tabbies. And then the very cute coasters also. Awesome. Thank you for sharing that. That's really awesome. I just am about to get back into crocheting. I maybe will find the time, Nicole. I need to carve it out for myself. I think it's very meditative. So thanks for sharing that. And finally we have a submission from Nancy K. Pronouns. She and her hi beans blankie stories. I have one. When I was a kid, I'm 70 now, I read a lot. I read in a magazine about Indian blankets. They were, quote, Indian patterns. And the magazine stressed to its kid readers what you could use the blankets for. I begged and begged for an Indian blanket. What kid asks for a blanket? And finally my mother relented. And for either my birthday or Christmas, I forgot. I finally got my blanket. I used that blanket for tents, costumes, you name it, I used my blanket for it. Even on my bed. I used that blanket until I had kids of my own and it became threadbare enough that it started falling apart. I was about 40 when I finally threw out my beloved blanket. I still miss it. Sniff a new one. Just wouldn't be the same. Love your show. Thank you, Nancy. Thank you so, so much. I appreciate that. I appreciate all your good news. I also appreciate David Pepper coming on and giving us the facts about the DNC and what's going on with the virtual nomination of Joe Biden in Ohio. Thank you so much. If I get a statement from Senator Chuck Schumer of course, I will share that with you along with any other news that happens between now and tomorrow. And Dana will be back in your ears tomorrow. Thanks for hanging in with me solo. And until then, everybody, please take care of yourselves, take care of each other, take care of the planet, take care of your mental health, take care of your family. Vote blue over Q. Bring someone with you and vote down ballot all the way. I've been HG and them's the beans.

[Brian Caram]

Refried beans. I like refried beans.

[Amanda Sturgel]

It's no surprise that newsmakers try to manipulate the audience. They want you to believe that they are the one holding the line, and they'll use any trick they can to get you there.

[Alison Gill]

But don't let them fool you.

[Amanda Sturgel]

Get Unspun I'm hi, I'm Amanda Sturgel. I've been a reporter, and today I teach future reporters to cut the spin and think critically about what newsmakers say. My podcast, Unspun, shows you how to know when you're being manipulated by the news, learn to spot the tricks, and how to make up your own mind about what's true. So if you're tired of being fooled by the news, subscribe to Unspun today. Unspun because you deserve the truth.