Frangela (Frances Collier and Angela V. Shelton) (19:04)

Hi, I'm Frances Collier. And I'm Angela V. Shelton. And we're Frangela. You know what you need in your life? The Final Word podcast. Yes, you do. That's right. It is the final word on all things political and pop cultural, where we meet, make real news, real funny, where we inspire you so you can hashtag resist, subscribe, and get a new episode of the Final Word podcast each week. It's the news we think you need to hear. That's right. We think you need to hear it. Okay.

Alison Gill (19:32)

Yeah.

Frangela (Frances Collier and Angela V. Shelton) (19:32)

It's what we say.

Alison Gill (19:33)

So.

Frangela (Frances Collier and Angela V. Shelton) (19:33)

That's right. And because all we do is give. Every Thursday, you can listen to our hysterical podcast, Idiot of the Week. We round up the stupid. Because you know what? Somebody has to.

Alison Gill (19:43)

Okay. All we do is give. Hey, everybody. Welcome back. I'm happy today to be joined by CNN senior legal analyst, Supreme Court expert. She's been covering the court for 25 years now, and she has a new book out called nine Black Inside the Supreme Court's Drive to the Right and its Historic Consequences. Please welcome Joan Biskupic. Hi, Joan.

Alison Gill (20:11)

Hi, Alison. Great to be with you.

Alison Gill (20:13)

I am really excited to talk to you about this book. I love this book. You know, I've been discussing the push to the right on the court that's been going on for a very long time for a while now on this show. I know. I've spoken to folks like Ellie Mistahl and Ellie Honig and other people who watch the court and something about your book that really struck me is how it's put together. And I was wondering what, what kind of prompted you to write this book? What was it that you wanted? What message did you want to get out?

Alison Gill (20:48)

I first came up with the idea back in late 2019 after I had finished my book on the Chief justice and I had sort of run out of interesting individual figures who I wanted to get into. And I thought a little bit about doing a group portrait because I could feel that they were under a lot of pressure from Trump. By then we had had two of the Trump appointees on, Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh. And I could. My original idea, Alison, was to sort of look at the court from the inside, the maneuvering within chambers, the pacts made, the deal making and how they, how they came up with decisions at a time when they were under such political pressure. So that was my original idea. But then what happens is that we have this unusual situation in 2021 and 22, first with COVID and the Trump effect just becomes deeper and deeper with his third appointment after the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. And then all of a sudden we've got Dobbs center stage. So I was going chronologically, as you can tell, but once the court accepted the Dobbs case, I said to my publishers, look, I'm not going to be able to submit this manuscript on time. I need to wait to see what they've done. And as I was preparing for that case and doing that for my regular old daily work at cnn, I realized that I had laid so much of the groundwork in the book, even though this book wasn't going to be about abortion. We had had that, as you probably remember. Well, in 2020, we had had the Louisiana abortion case, and it was an important case, but it was nothing compared to what we got in Dobbs. And the interesting thing was when I bought some time through the publisher to not submit this until the first week in July when we had gotten the abortion ruling, whatever that was going to be. And I thought, oh my God, am I going to have to rewrite much? But I realized that I'd actually seen things I didn't know I saw. I was one of those people, Allison, who kept saying, maybe the chief is going to be able to pull something out. Maybe the chief is going to get Kavanaugh to come over for some sort of middle ground ruling. And I know abortion rights activists don't even think about a decision being middle ground if it were to uphold Mississippi's 15 week ban. But it would have been a lot better than what we all got. So I was originally prompted with trying to bring people inside the court. So much was being written about the Trump effect on politics, on the nation's psyche, and so much of what was happening in America. And I wanted to use the sort of access I have to bring people inside. And then it turned out that the court, frankly, gave me a much better story. In fact, the title, Nine Black Robes, was just a working title that I never really was high on at all. I thought, I don't know if I like this, but by the time we got to Dobbs, it just felt like the right kind of title.

Alison Gill (23:52)

Yeah. Cause you said you were sort of, like, laying out the road, the path, you know, to where we are now with decisions like the Dobbs decision. And, you know, when I read Ali's book, you know, he said that the Dobbs Court, it looks more like the Dred Scott Court than the Loving Court. The only difference is that they have the Federalist Society giving them talking points, which I thought was a very fascinating way to lay this out. And, you know, talk to Mary Trump about, you know, in her book the Reckoning, going all the way back to Reconstruction, and how the Court has been since then. But you also talk about some of the history of the potential leaks in the Supreme Court, particularly with the LGBTQ Title VII decision and Alito's scathing dissent there that. That you quote in. In your book. And to me, that. Just that, like, when you talk about laying the path to where we are now, I mean, I can't think of a better path than that. Talking about the leaks, talking about Alito's dissent, talking about that decision, and that the potential leak may have been to put public pressure on the Court. Talk a little bit about about that and how that. How. How we have now, like, sort of come full circle.

Alison Gill (25:00)

Sure. And what you're referring to is when some of us heard a bit in early 2020 that the LGBTQ Title VII case was going in favor of the petitioners who wanted expansion. Well, actually, it was the company's challenge in favor of gay rights advocates and employees who wanted expansion of Title vii. And that was originally. Information was passed on to a few key reporters, but the Wall Street Journal ran with it in an editorial and used its editorial to put pressure on conservative inside not to do anything big and expansive on Title vii. They had no effect on that. But Ed Alito was so angry about that moment. He was angry at the fact that the Chief and Justice Gorsuch joined with the four liberals at the time to have a more expansive reading of Title VII to cover people who want to challenge any kind of action in the workplace based on discrimination arising from sexual orientation or gender identity. So you have some leaks already coming out back then. And you have, as you just said, Alison, Justice Alito being so angry at how that decision in Bostock had gone on Title vii. And then we get up to the time of Dobbs, and I remember so well everything that happened in late April up to May 2, the day of, the day of the leak. First, we had another editorial in the Wall Street Journal speculating on the fact that maybe the chief was sort of enticing someone like Brett Kavanaugh to come over to this ground of upholding the Mississippi ban but not eviscerating Roe. And I remember at the time thinking, the Wall Street Journal has a pipeline to the court. I had known that from before, and I don't know if you remember that editorial, but it was one that got my attention. I thought, I wonder if something's happening?

Alison Gill (27:14)

Oh, I do. It reminded me of the Hobby Lobby stuff that went on.

Alison Gill (27:18)

Right? Yeah, Bostock, Hobby Lobby. Things that were. We start to hear. And I have to say, I will admit that I often find out before a case is decided where things are going, but I never write about it because I know that at the very last minute things could change. And plus, I'm usually getting information from just like one or two chambers. And you know, there are nine of them. You need, you need to know like, where everybody, at least, where at least five are. So, so that gets us up to late April and people are still wondering what could possibly be happening in Dobbs. And I know you remember that when they took this case, they told us they were only going to be deciding whether Mississippi's ban at 15 weeks violated Roe's viability firewall. You know, that government could not interfere with the right to abortion up to the point of viability. And that's when the fetus can live outside the womb. But, you know, so many of us thought that we were only like in the territory of the Mississippi statute, not, not, you know, all of all of Roe being reversed. But that's, that's where they had what they had voted on in December after the oral arguments in late 2021. So we find out that we start hearing these inklings and then of course, you get this leak, which truly was unprecedented, even though people have talked about other leaks. But to get a 98 page document that finished from, from that Point of the negotiations was just stunning. And as you said, Justice Alito had been so furious about the law. Last one where the case was going, but this one, he clearly had everyone on board. And I think he probably would have kept Justices Barrett and Kavanaugh irrespective of the leak. But once the leak was out there, it locked them in.

Alison Gill (29:01)

Right. And that's sort of where I was at, too. Like, this seems like an effort to lock these votes in. But, you know, we still don't know anything about the leak because it was not really truly investigated by the court or by the marshal. And then we found out the monetary conflict of interest between the person who came in to give their thumbs up on how the whole investigation went, which was interesting. But I want to talk a little bit about how we got here, because, I mean, the court's been on this road since forever. But specifically, and particularly with what you call the triumvirate of Don McGahn, Mitch McConnell, and Leonard Leo, the three biggest influences on the shape of the court today. And you write about it. So tell us about that.

Alison Gill (29:47)

And that is what's different. When I started covering the court full time for the Washington Post Back in 92, I remember I wrote all the time about five, four rulings. And the five conservatives were winning a lot. But those conservatives were so different than today. Two of them were Justices Sandra Day o' Connor and Anthony Kennedy, who today would look downright liberal, you know, compared to where we've. We've gone with the Federalist Society. But that's because of, you know, Justice Kennedy and o' Connor were not screened by the Federalist Society. They were not screened by Don McGahn. And they were, you know, Mitch McConnell was around, but Mitch McConnell wasn't quite on the tear that he went on after in the post Bork era. As you know, from that, that chapter. I talk about Mitch McConnell taking the floor in fall of 1987 after the Senate has voted, is about to vote down Robert Bork, and he essentially says, you will rue this day. I will remember. I will remember. And he certainly did remember. And he pairs up with Don McGahn, who is like a generation younger, but yet grew up with the Federalist Society. You know, in, in college and law school. In fact, Don McGahn speaks about how his father made him watch the Bork hearings, and then he in college watched the Clarence Thomas hearings, and that was very energizing for him. And then talk about being energized. You take someone like Leonard Leo, who just basically came on the scene, you know, in the late 80s, early 90s, about a decade after the Federalist Society was founded. But he comes in with his power of networking and money raising, big money raising. And I think his, his title had been like executive vice president, whatever his title was, he was, he was really running things and he was generating more money for the Federalist Society agenda. And also he was just, he is so great at networking. And he's always been close to Mitch McConnell. And he remembered Don McGahn from when Don McGahn was president of his law school Federalist Society chapter. And they were all perfectly positioned to enable Trump when he came in. In fact, Donald Trump basically turned it all over to Leonard Leo and Don McGahn the night of Justice Scalia's death on February 13, 2016. Don McGahn, first of all, Leonard Leo is right at the center of this because he gets a call from somebody in the Scalia family saying what's happening. He immediately tries to get Mitch McConnell. He is in touch with Don McGahn. Don McGahn immediately calls Donald Trump and says, take advantage of this Republican debate that was going on that night to talk about how the Senate should stall, stall, stall, delay, delay, delay. And that's exactly what happened.

Alison Gill (32:38)

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I've been meaning to ask an expert about this because I still don't know the answer. I'm going to shift gears here on you a little bit. There was some video after Kavanaugh was nominated of Justice Kennedy and Donald Trump having an exchange. And Justice Kennedy seemed really upset at something that Donald Trump said. And we've all been trying to figure out what that was. But everyone seems to, whether it was untoward or not, everyone seems to have some suspicion about the retirement of Justice Kennedy. And I was wondering what you knew about that, if anything, or if you had any insight.

Alison Gill (33:20)

Okay, I think that's an excellent question because there was also a lot of talk about Justice Kennedy's son being so close to one of the Trump sons. And, you know, they were, they were all.

Alison Gill (33:29)

And he worked at Deutsche Bank. He was the high risk Deutsche bank lender was responsible for lending Trump millions, Billions.

Alison Gill (33:35)

That's right. They all knew each other from the New York scene. And I'll say this about Justice Kennedy. Justice Kennedy wanted one of his clerks on the court, of course, and he always was very fond of Brett Kavanaugh. But Don McGahn was also a longtime Kavanaugh person. And Don McGahn, you know, they were old friends. And Don McGahn really was the one who made sure that no one else was in serious contention against Brett KAVANAUGH back in 2018. But why did Anthony Kennedy retire? I know that some people believe he retired to guarantee Brett Kavanaugh having that seat. I know that Justice Kennedy was ready to retire. He was, you know, let's see, he was born in 1936, and here we are in 2018. You know, so he's, he's into his 80s, he's tired, he's showing some weariness and age on the bench. You know, I want to be careful about how I speak about someone, you know, who is older. And maybe I believe it was time for him to retire. And I think he and his family thought it was time for him to retire. And one thing I will point to is that other justices who've left the bench tend to take on lower court cases or tend to take on book projects. And right now, just as Kennedy isn't doing any of those things, he is speaking on occasion. But I think he was ready to pull back from real full time work. So I think it was time for him to retire in his own mind, given his age and just how he was feeling about the job. But I also think, I don't diminish the idea that he wanted someone like Brett Kavanaugh in there and he had partners. Don McGahn wanted Brett Kavanaugh, and Don McGann hung in there with Brett Kavanaugh when the going got rough.

Alison Gill (35:31)

Yes, they sure did. I was like, you know, they could easily just solve all this by switching their nomination to Amy Coney Barrett. And they didn't.

Alison Gill (35:38)

That's right. That's right. They had her in the back pocket with the idea that, you know, they, they thought in the most basic terms, you know, when the woman retires, then we have this other woman ready kind of thing. But, you know, Justice Kavanaugh had really worked very hard to stay positioned and as you referred to the triumphant chapter. But I, I kind of lay out his abortion decision on the D.C. circuit. That certainly got the attention of conservatives who wanted to make sure that he would be in their camp on abortion rights.

Alison Gill (36:16)

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Before I let you go, one of the interesting parts here of the book that really stood out to me was the bit about the bitterness among some of the justices after Ruth Bader Ginsburg's death and how her belongings were handled. Can you talk about that?

Alison Gill (36:32)

Yes. She, you know, Ruth Bader Ginsburg was just holding on as long as she could. Obviously, you know, it was when I went back and tracked all the doctor's appointments she had in 2020. And you know, this was after she had so many different bouts of cancer, the lung cancer, the pancreatic cancer, the rectoral cancer. She just had so much, so much cancer that she kept having to fight off. And I went to see her in January of 2020, literally and figuratively. Yes, that's right. I went to see her in January of 2020, right before COVID So I was meeting her in person in her chambers and she had just had a scan and she was cancer free. And she was saying how happy she was about that. But then I found out that within about six weeks it had reappeared. So some of her colleagues knew how sick she was getting. But remember, they weren't meeting in person at this point because now as we move into spring of 2020, she's feeling, she's just having so much more go on. And she's going to the hospital and finally, on September 18th, she does die. And her staff, which had been working with her, trying to keep her up to speed on cases as she was up to speed on cases by bringing her resettr home briefs to the hospital, trying to just help her along in these final weeks and months. The staff was just really exhausted. And then they helped plan this funeral. So they finished the funeral, the memorial services, you know, where thousands of people had come to town and suddenly they're asked to clear out of the chambers. And that was very upsetting to many people in the court. And there was already so much bitterness about how quickly things were happening. Obviously the three liberals who were left just saw as their life was going to pass before them because a 6 to 3 court is just so different than a 5 to 4 court. And they knew that. And then they saw how quickly Donald Trump was going to be able to push Amy Coney Barrett through the Senate. And they were still, they still hadn't gotten over, of course, the treatment of Merrick Garland back in 2016, when Mitch McConnell had so stalled on President Obama's choice of Merrick Ireland to succeed Scalia, when there were months and months and months before the election. And this was just literally a few weeks before the election.

Alison Gill (39:05)

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And we were all devastated by that. And we were reeling from COVID and the threat of a 6, 3 court. Absolutely. Because as you say, that sort of relegated the Chief justice to a dissent position from then on out. So it's going to be interesting to see how and if and what he does to try to even preserve a modicum of decent legacy for this court that he, that he oversees.

Alison Gill (39:37)

Well, can I just mention one other thing about him real quick, because I know, of course, you know, he still, even though he obviously didn't get what he wanted in Dobbs, and there have been other times when he, he has been now in the dissent with the, with the three remaining liberals. But remember, John Roberts is still very much getting exactly what he wants on things like race and religion and the reigning in of regulation. Exactly right. So I always try to mention that because John Roberts has a lot of different agendas going on and some of them are still being maximized.

Alison Gill (40:13)

Yeah, that's very true. Although I think more people believe that chocolate milk comes from brown cows than support or approve of the Supreme Court in this day and age. All right, well, thank you so much. Can you tell everyone when the book is available and where they can find it?

Alison Gill (40:31)

Sure. Thank you, Alison. This has been fun. It's called Nine Black Robes. Publication date is April 4th. Please buy it at your favorite bookstore or order it online at your favorite site. And I hope you enjoy it. And I really enjoyed our conversation today, Alison.

Alison Gill (40:48)

Me too. Thank you. You can also pre order it right now if you'd like. And everybody make sure to follow Joan at the socials and look for her book out April 4th. Joan Biskupic, I appreciate your time today.

Alison Gill (41:00)

Thank you everybody.

Alison Gill (41:01)

Stick around. We'll be right back with the good news.

Martin Sheen (41:05)

Filming the Way on the Camino de Santiago de Compostela was one of the most important and rewarding experiences of my life. And it was by far the most satisfying role of my career. The Way was filmed in 2009 over an eight week schedule and followed the pilgrimage route from St Jean Pierre de Port in the French Pyrenees, across northern Spain to Santiago and then on to Muchia for the final scene. And the entire production was a family affair. Those are the opening lines of a story I share, and they reflect the very heart of my podcast. And through sharing autobiographical stories and inspired poetry and personal reflections, that is the theme I find myself exploring again and again. But I do so in the hope that it sparks listeners to see how it relates to their own lives and their own story of discovery. So please join me each Sunday for a beautifully crafted 20 minute journey of personal exploration. I'm proud to announce that the Martin Sheen Podcast, Season two. I've often said if it's not personal, it's impersonal. And that is how I choose to approach my podcast, with all its contents, from storytelling to poetry and book selections. Each unique episode is a journey we will share together. And I think it's important you know that I have no intention of leaving who I am at the door with this podcast. Anyone who knows me knows I cannot tell a personal story that doesn't have at least some social justice connection at its core. I have my convictions and issues that draw on my empathy and compassion. Frankly, that's what drives and informs my conscience and makes me who I am. How could I bring any less to this endeavor? So tune in Sundays as I invite you to follow, subscribe and and receive notifications about what's next for me. Martin Sheen oh, and for more information, please visit them martinsheenpodcast.com and thank you again

Alison Gill (43:14)

everybody. Welcome back. It's time for the Good news.

Alison Gill (43:16)

Good news everyone.

Alison Gill (43:19)

Then Good news everyone. Good news, Good news. And if you have any good news confessions Corrections A shout out to a local business in your area. A shout out to a loved one. You want to send me your pod pet pics? We want to play what the Mutt with us. If you have a adoptable pet in your area. If you don't have a pet tax to pay, anything you want to send us at all, please send it to us@dailybeanspod.com and click on contact. I'm especially loving the people who are putting the non destructive tape boxes and squares on their floors for their cats to sit in. It's so fucking funny to me. All right, first up, temporary Texans Pronouns they and them Salutations Legume Squad Double featured today with an extremely adoptable what the Mutt we're fostering in North Texas, Oklahoma area. A Cygnus is a full contact snuggle master who loves flopping on stationary humans and never complains about being human handled into a cuddle. He's a loyal protector of whoever he's currently giving food whoever is currently giving him food and a bed and he's overjoyed to see any of his prior caretakers. Would be a fantastic companion for a person just moving to a new area or leaving a fuller house who enjoys dog snuggles but may appreciate having an alert defender with a full bodied bark protecting the homestead. It's about 75 pounds and maybe a surprise in his DNA file. Look at this baby. Well, he's definitely got some pity in there. Maybe some staffy, maybe a little lab some chow. I mean he's just beautiful. Those eyes, they're like little jewels. All right, what do we got? Pitbull, Border Collie, Bulldog and Super Mutt. All right, I got one I got one right. What a beautiful baby. All right, thank you very much for that. And if you are interested in Cygnus, you can look him up. C Y G N U S at Emily's Legacy Rescue in Wichita Falls, Texas. Alrighty. Next up from Francine Pronoun. She and her oh, what a week for the Leguminati indictment for Donald and an all in frog orgy I stumbled upon in my sister's neighborhood. There had to be about a thousand frogs and as you can see, they're getting their frog freak on even more spectacular. Donald has been held accountable. Bathe in all the glory. Look at all these froggos. Oh, thank you so much for that, Francine. I appreciate you. Next up, from Tony. Pronouns he and him. Hello, beans warriors. Tony here again. I was at the Trans Day of Visibility rally. Wow. Just wow. It was amazing, awesome, fabulous and wonderful. Over a thousand trans, gay, bi, intersex kids with siblings, parents, grandparents, allies were all there. There was so much fierce love for themselves and each other. So many bright and colorful flags and signs. Little kids with rainbow painted faces, one child with flowing butterfly wings running around. I carried my giant American flag and pride flags snapping in the wind with one veteran. A parent supporting her queer teenager said I put her old unit to shame by carrying a bigger flag than they carried on parade. She thanked me for showing up and said if I needed a hand in the wind, she'd have my back. Speakers included organizers Faith Corallo, singer and transray activist Ryan Cassada, human rights campaign director Kelly Robinson and many others. A number of young people told stories of their struggles and triumphs as Trans2 Spirit, Intersex and others. Massachusetts Senator Ed Markey was there shaking hands and taking selfies. There was such a spirit of defiance and courage and determination to support and defend each other. As an old cishet white guy, I was there to stand for my kids and all the kids under attack. And I got so much love back. I'm still high. It is so amazing seeing young people having the courage, self, love and integrity to step out in their true selves in spite of the hatred and hostility thrown in their way. I feel as if some of the despair and fear I've been feeling was purged away. I'm so grateful for what I was given. Yesterday while I was in dc, I got a text from one of the people I stood with at Wadsworth asking if I would be in Chardon, Ohio Saturday to support the Drag Queen Story hour there that was under threat from proud boys and Nazis. As it happens, the Chardon event was peaceful. Only a dozen or so haters showed up, and most of them melted away when the rain started. The best chant of the day. We're here, we're queer, we're fabulous, and don't fuck with us. Until next time in love and resistance. Oh, these photos. How wonderful and how amazing. It's got to be so good for the soul. There you are with the flag. I love your overalls, dude. This is so wonderful and beautiful. Oh, that last picture with the capital in the background and your flags. Tony, thank you so much for this and thank you for standing with the LGBTQ community. All right, next up from Danielle Pronoun. She and her hello Beans Queens. I am a psychologist who works with transgender youth, and I wrote in once before about my frustrations with the way media covers the issue of pediatric gender affirming care. Well, my good news today is that Vox recently published a piece that finally says all the things I've been waiting for. The article is titled Trans People Deserve Better Journalism. We'll have the link in the show notes. I also want to thank my wonderful partner, Brian kitchentable Days listener. Hi, Brian. Who not only introduced me to the Daily Beans, and when I was wondering how to spread visibility for this article, he immediately suggested sharing it with the amazing Daily Beans community. Thank you AG and DG for all the work you do. It really keeps us going. I could not find our masking tape, but for Pet Tax, I submit two photos that show that if a square object exists, our Khaleesi will sit on it. Mother of dragons, Queen of sitting on squares. Oh, she's beautiful. Maine Coon. There she is on a book. Oh, she's so pretty. There she is on something else shaped like a square. Thank you so much for that. We'll definitely share this article out from Vox. Danielle, I appreciate you sending that. Next up from Christy Pronoun. She and her hello beautiful Beans Queens. I came home from work the other day to the wonderful news that an indictment happened. I just want to take this opportunity to thank you and the rest of the Beans crew for all you do to keep us informed with the truth. I used to be fearful of speaking up and standing up for my political views in my deeply red state, Ohio. Jacketless Jim Jordan's district, no less. Then I found the Daily Beans in MSW Media and everything changed. For Pet Tax, I've included three photos of my dog Sadie, or as I call her, Tater Tot. One with her favorite toy, lamb chop. Oh yeah, my Olive loves her lamb chop. One in the onesie after her spay and the last one of her eye surgery to correct a plugged tear duct. I have a misheard lyric to share as well. While driving in the car with my then young son, the song Taking care of business came on the radio as I was singing along. He joined in by singing bacon carrot biscuits every day Bacon carrot biscuits every way I'll be baking carrot biscuits now that everyone's gonna say that that's a wonderful. Carrot biscuits sound delicious. If you have any, send them my way. He's 34 now. I haven't let him forget it yet. Good. Oh, look at this little angel. The onesie is so cute. Aw. And the cone of shame, the eyebrows on this baby. Thank you for sending that in. And thanks to all of you for sending in the good news. I think the news is gonna keep getting better and better, but I always want to hear your good news. So send it to us@dailybeanspod.com and click on contact. It's gonna be a hell of a week. I know I say that every week, but every week it's true. I'll be here with you. I'll have some fun. Guest hosts and I will be back tomorrow in your ears to get ready for the arraignment. We'll see how it goes, everybody. Until then, please take care of yourselves. Take care of each other, Take care of the planet, Take care of your mental health. Vote blue over Q and bring someone with you. April 4th, last day to vote in Wisconsin. Go vote Wisconsin. Go vote Wisconsin. I've been ag and them's the beans.

Alison Gill (51:29)

Refried beans.

Alison Gill (51:30)

I like refried beans.