← The Daily Beans
The Daily Beans
Show Of Farce (feat. Garrett Graff)
00:54:32
Wednesday, July 9th, 2025 Today, the Supreme Court green lights Trump’s order for mass firings across government agencies; President Bukele tells the UN that he doesn’t have constructive custody of the men sent to his torture prison; Senator Schumer is demanding an investigation into Trump Weather Service vacancies and their impact on disaster response failures in Texas; a militia descended on MacArthur Park in Los Angeles for no other reason than to scare people; the DoJ’s release of the Epstein jail video is missing a full minute; Elon’s AI Twitter bot GROK has been reprogrammed to be a Nazi; a federal court has struck down a Republican ballot law in Kansas as unconstitutional; a judge temporarily blocks Trump from cutting off Planned Parenthood funding. Dana is out and about!
Loading summary
Transcript25 lines
- [00:00]
Alison Gill
MSW Media hello and welcome to the Daily beans for Wednesday, July 9, 2025. Today, the Supreme Court greenlights Trump's order for mass firings across government agencies. President Bukele of El Salvador tells the UN that he doesn't have constructive custody of the men sent to his torture prison. Sen. Schumer is demanding an investigation into Trump weather Service vacancies and their impact on disaster response failures in Texas. A militia descended on MacArthur park in Los Angeles for no other reason than to scare people. The Department of Justice's release of the Epstein jail video is missing a full minute. Elon's AI Twitter bot Grok has been reprogrammed to be a Nazi. A federal court has struck down a Republican ballot law in Kansas as unconstitutional. And a judge temporarily blocks Trump from cutting off Planned Parenthood funding. I'm your host, Alison Gill. All right, everybody, we're halfway through the week. We made it halfway through the week. We have to celebrate the wins where we can, and I'll take that as a win. Later in the show today, I'm going to be speaking with Garrett Graff. He's the host of the Long Shadow podcast. And we're going to talk about season four, and it's about the Internet and how it's been weaponized by the far right. It's actually a great history of the Internet and pivot points throughout, you know, basically since the Y2K bug. It's really, really good. And you're going to want to listen to our interview about his podcast. Dana's going to be back Monday. I can't wait. I miss her very much. Thanks for hanging with me solo. I really, really appreciate it. Thanks to all our new listeners as well. Welcome. If you've joined us in the last week and a half, you will get to experience Dana on Monday and you will not be sorry. Yeah. All right, everybody, we have a lot of news to get to. Let's hit the hot notes. Hot notes. All right, first up from Politico, the Trump administration can move forward with plans to fire tens of thousands of workers across the federal government. That's according to a ruling by the Supreme Court on Tuesday. A judge in California had blocked the layoffs, finding they would likely violate federal law. I think they do, too. But the justices granted an emergency appeal from the administration, seeking permission to enforce a February 11th executive order that instructed agencies to carry out dramatic reductions in force. In an apparent 8 to 1 ruling, the high court said it was not assessing the legality of any particular agency's layoff plans. Nor any moves taken so far to implement those plans. Litigation over the downsizing efforts is sure to continue. But for now, the justices said the administration can enforce the executive order and a memo from the Office of Management and Budget implementing the executive order. The high court's unsigned decision, which the majority explained in two terse paragraphs, lifts an injunction issued by US District Judge Susan Ilston, who had blocked 21 agencies from complying with the mass layoff orders. Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson was the sole member of the court to record a dissent. She said President Donald Trump is unleashing a wrecking ball on the federal government. And she slammed the court's majority for its demonstrated enthusiasm for greenlighting this president's legally dubious actions in an emergency posture. Emergency posture is the key word there. All right, next up from me@muellershiroad.com if you've been following my writing there or listening to these podcasts or unjustified or Cleanup, you'll note we've been covering the group of men stranded incommunicado in a Salvadoran torture prison across multiple cases in the courts. Now, these men have been declared a putative class by Judge Boasberg in the JGG case, which is currently in the D.C. district Court. Now, across multiple cases, when ordered to return people unlawfully or erroneously disappeared to Seacoat, the government has continually relied on the argument that that they don't have constructive custody of the men and therefore cannot return any of them to the United States because President Bukele and the, quote, sovereign nation of El Salvador control the custody of those trapped in the foreign gulag. But yesterday, and Adam Klassfeld and I talked about this Briefly yesterday, on July 7, a new filing hit Judge Boasberg's docket in the JGG case and it says, petitioners respectfully notify this court of the attached document from the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights Working Group on ENFOR or involuntary disappearances, a report on enforced or involuntary disappearances in four cases investigating the disappearance of four Venezuelan men who were sent to El Salvador on March 15, 2025. Now, I'm a break in here and remind you that on March 15, that's the day Judge Boasberg held that emergency hearing over a lawsuit filed by JGG et al in the early hours of the morning, like 1:30 in the morning. And they asked the judge to issue a temporary restraining order on an emergency basis to stop the planes as non the people aboard were given due process. Judge Boberg held the hearing and issued the order in the afternoon. The Same day on March 15, he ordered the planes be turned around. The government ignored that order. The Supreme Court eventually vacated Boberg's order, but said 90 that people must receive meaningful due process. Since then the plaintiffs have filed a new complaint and Judge Boberg granted class status to all those disappeared to Seacote, and that status includes anyone who was sent there on March 14th and 15th, which is around 238 men. The women were sent back. As Cekote does not accept women. The new filing in Boseberg's court goes on to say as set forth in the attached report, the Government of El Salvador responded to the UN's inquiry opened by the four families asking about the disappearance of their family members and they said the Salvadoran State emphatically states that its authorities have not arrested, detained or transferred the persons referred to in the communications of the working group. The actions of the State of El Salvador have been limited to the implementation of a bilateral cooperation mechanism with another State that's us through which it has facilitated the use of the Salvadoran prison infrastructure for the custody of persons detained within the scope of the justice system and law enforcement of that other state. In this context, the jurisdiction and legal responsibility for these persons lie exclusively with the competent foreign authorities and by virtue of international agreements signed and in accordance with the principles of sovereignty and the international cooperation in criminal matters. In this regard, the actions attributable to the Salvadoran State are limited to its sovereignty and territorial jurisdiction and therefore it cannot be held responsible for the failure to observe the principle of non refoulment with respect to the persons mentioned. It goes on to say this court correctly held that whether or not respondents defendants have constructive custody of petitioners for purposes of habeas jurisdiction, the respondents are required to facilitate the ability of the Seacoat class to seek habeas relief. However, should it become necessary for petitioners to pursue the constructive custody issue, the petitioners reserve the right to seek additional discovery in light of this new information as well as Respondents original inadequate discovery responses and this court's acknowledgment that the constructive custody conclusion was predicated on the current record and the Trump government knew that it had constructive custody of those at Secote before it made a declaration to the court that it didn't. The filing says that here it says such additional discovery may be particularly important because this new evidence contradicts the underlying custody conclusion in the kozak declaration of May 9, which is dated after El Salvador's responses to the UN and after petitioners sought habeas review. That's the date habeas attaches quote. And this is from the declaration from the government. Michael G. Kozak representing the Government. It was and remains my understanding that the detention and ultimate disposition of those detained at Seacote and other Salvadoran detention facilities are matters within the legal authority of El Salvador in accordance with its domestic and international legal obligations. So not only did the Trump government obfuscate and stonewall court orders requiring it to hand over documents related to the facilitation of the return of these men, including during the two week discovery ordered by Judge Sinis in the Abrego case, but the government openly misrepresented itself in court documents and declarations under the penalty of perjury. Today, this Bukele declaration was mentioned in another case about a man in custody at Seacote in a letter from Judge Gallagher, a Trump appointed judge handling a case called jop. This is a man named Christian who is being held at Seacoat. She wrote what amounts to a show cause order to the government requiring that they explain themselves to the court. She writes, in status reports submitted pursuant to this court's June 5th order, the defendants have repeatedly skirted this court's directive to provide information regarding the steps they have taken and will take to facilitate the return of Christian to the United States. Instead, the defendants have repeatedly made oblique references to their request of assistance from the US Department of State, which has entered into negotiations to facilitate Christian's return and quote, assumed responsibility on behalf of the US Government for diplomatic discussions with El Salvador, unquote. Assuming the government of El Salvador provided truthful information to the UN no diplomatic discussions should be required here because El Salvador has no sovereign interest in Christian's continued confinement in that country. This court directs the defendants, that's the Trump government, to explain their position that diplomatic discussions involving the Department of State are required to facilitate Christians return to the United States in compliance with this court's order. Defendants should provide their response no later than Tuesday, July 15. Despite the informal nature of this letter, it is an order of the court and should be docketed accordingly. So I'll be awaiting the lawyers for Mr. Abrego to mention this in their complaint. I'll also be looking for it in the now fired DOJ lawyer Arez Reuveni's whistleblower complaint. So we'll see where this goes. I end the piece by saying if the courts are unable or unwilling to hold the government in contempt for this blatant lie, then we need to re examine those procedures because if this is not contempt, nothing is. All right. Next up from alternate On Monday, heavily armed Federal agents stormed MacArthur park in Los Angeles, California in an apparent show of force, making no arrests and conducting no raids. And just prior to their arrival, dozens of children in the middle of summer camp were playing. Los Angeles based ABC affiliate KABC reported Monday there were more than 20 kids playing soccer on a field before federal personnel descended on the park who were apparently in the middle of a summer camp activity. These kids. LA Council member Hernandez said that the staff ushered the kids into the lower level of a nearby building that the camp was using after they were made aware they were tipped off the federal agents were in the vicinity. One eight year old boy who was at the summer camp told Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass that he was scared the agents would arrest his parents. Quote, I don't think the goal is to detain. The goal is to spread fear. That's what Mayor Bass said, adding that the agent's behavior was absolutely outrageous. Now independent journalist Ken Klippenstein reported Monday that he obtained documents from an unnamed source in the California National Guard in which the storming of MacArthur park was apparently dubbed Operation Excalibur. The mission was thoroughly planned and was ostensibly for a show of presence aimed at preventing the distribution of fake IDs. However, Klippenstein's source said the operation was botched due to poor communication between federal and city officials. Quote, we were on the objective for 24 minutes. That's what a National Guard member told Klippenstein. Many of the phase lines were not reported because they didn't happen. So we parked and then left. Soldiers didn't get out of trucks. They stayed in the back of the five ton military trucks sweating in the heat. This was just nothing but a show of force. There were cavalry, there were horseback, Border patrol on horseback, men in full military gear with assault rifles marching through MacArthur park just to show everybody how big and strong they are. All right, next up from cnbc, Musk updated Grok this past Friday, according to Musk. And Musk has long complained that Grok has parroted woke Internet content and said users will notice a difference with the new version. And who boy, has there been a difference? On Tuesday, Grok went full Nazi. He praised Adolf Hitler, made other anti Semitic comments. The chatbot built by Musk's startup Xai made the comments on Twitter in response to a user's question about the recent Texas flooding. A Twitter user asked grok which 20th century historical figure would be best suited to deal with this problem and this was in a conversation about the Texas flooding. In one post, the chatbot said the Texas flooding tragically killed over 100 people, including dozens of children from a Christian camp, and then referenced Hitler, quote, to deal with such vile anti white hate Adolf Hitler. No question that's what Grok said. He'd spot the pattern and handle it decisively every damn time. This is just one Grok is going off on Twitter right now talking about exterminating Jewish people. I mean, it's hideous. It reminds me of Tay. Remember the friendly millennial chatbot from Microsoft that went full Nazi? So this is the reprogramming by Elon Musk. All right, next up from the Hill, Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer is demanding that the Commerce Department's inspector general investigate vacancies at the National Weather Service offices and whether they increase the death toll in recent flash flooding in Texas. Schumer wrote in a Monday letter to Roderick Anderson, the Commerce Department's acting inspector general, urging him to immediately open an investigation into the scope, breadth and ramifications of weather staffing. Shortages at key local National Weather Service stations contributed to the catastrophic loss of life and property during the deadly flooding. I can tell you they did. I don't think I need to have a Trump handpicked inspector general investigate it for me over the next two years. But I guess strongly worded letters are what we have next up from Rolling Stone. On Monday, the Justice Department and FBI released a joint memo aimed at putting the saga of the late sex offender Jeffrey Epstein to rest. It described how an exhaustive investigation had led to the same conclusions we've heard before. Epstein died by suicide in a prison cell in 2019 while awaiting trial, and there's no evidence that he kept a client list of political elites and celebrities he could blackmail over involvement in his trafficking ring. Those answers, of course, did not sit well with the significant portion of the MAGA base that fervently believes Epstein was murdered by the powerful people he could implicate in his crimes, and that there is somewhere a document that definitively proves they took part in the same abuses. White House officials knew they would face blowback from the president's conspiracy theorist supporters. But what they may not have expected is that one element of their final report, almost 11 hours of security footage from the Metropolitan Correctional center in New York City on the last night of Epstein's life would add fuel to the fire. The camera view gives a partial glimpse of a common area in the facility, with Epstein's cell door out of frame to the right early in the evening, guards escort him through that area to his cell. And for the rest of the night, through the early morning, no one can be seen approaching his door. But many viewers noted there seems to be a glitch in the video as the Timer turns from 11:58 to 11:59, seemingly skipping a minute ahead of midnight. Naturally, that missing minute was enough to get people wondering if the DOJ and FBI were withholding a key piece of information and just hoping no one would notice. Chatter and confusion around the time skip led to a question on lingering mysteries for US Attorney General Pam Bondi. On Tuesday, at a Cabinet meeting, a reporter asked whether she could confirm if Epstein had ever worked for an American foreign intelligence agency, adding, quote, also, could you say why there's a missing minute from the jailhouse tape? And before she could respond, Trump jumped in to deflect. Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy's been talked about for years. You're asking. We have Texas, we have this, we have all these things, and people are still talking about this guy, this creep. This is unbelievable. You want to waste time? Do you feel like answering? And Bondi said she wouldn't mind, and she did answer me thinks Trump dost protest too much now. Bondi said in her answer she had no knowledge of whether Epstein worked for an intelligence service. And on the topic of the video, muddled through an explanation of how the recording system in the prison works. Quote, the minute missing from the video. We released a video showing definitively the video was not conclusive, but the evidence prior to it was showing he committed suicide. She went on to say, what was on that. There was a minute off the counter. And what we learned from the Federal Bureau of Prisons was every year, I mean, every night they redo the video. It's old from, like, 1999. So every night the video is reset, and every night should have the same minute missing. So we're looking for that video to release that as well, showing that a minute is missing every night, and that's it on EPSTEIN. So since 1999, they've known. Let's, let's, let's say her explanation is true. Let's just go down that road for a second. So since 1999, everybody knows that you won't be recorded for that minute between 11:59 and 11:58. Interesting cut to Kash Patel and Pam Bondi feverishly removing the same minute from all the other day's tapes going back to 1999. Hmm, interesting. All right, next up, some better news from democracy. Docket In a major win for voters, a federal court ruled that a Kansas law banning pre filled mail in ballot applications is unconstitutional and violates the First Amendment. The law, known as the personalized application prohibition, made it a crime for voting groups to send voters mail in ballot applications with basic information like their names or addresses already filled in. U.S. district Judge Katherine Vraytil. I think that's how you say it. GW Bush appointee held last Thursday that Kansas Legislature enacted the law to suppress speech which advocates voting by mail. The lawsuit was brought by Vote America and the Voter Participation center, two nonprofit organizations that work to increase voter participation, particularly among young people, voters of color and unmarried women. They argue that pre filled applications make it easier for voters to request a mail in ballot and they're a key part of their outreach efforts, quote, providing personalized applications to young voters, voters of color and unmarried women provides them simple access to advanced mail ballot applications. The court said Republicans in the Kansas legislature passed the law in 2021, just weeks after the 2020 election and the January 6 insurrection. The court found that Kansas officials offered no compelling reason to criminalize pre filled applications despite the state's claims that the prohibition prevented fraud. And some more good news from NBC. A federal judge on Monday temporarily blocked the Trump administration from barring Medicaid funding for Planned Parenthood under a provision of the Republicans sweeping tax and spending package. Massachusetts U.S. district Judge Indira Talwani issued the temporary restraining order directing Health and Human Services to take all steps necessary to ensure that Medicaid funding continues to be dispersed in the customary manner and timeframes to Planned Parenthood. The order will remain in effect for 14 days because it's a temporary restraining order. And the judge will hear arguments on July 21 on whether to grant a longer pause in the provision. A preliminary injunction in this provision of the administration's, well, I call it the billionaire bailout bill, which Trump signed into law Friday. Quote, we're grateful that the court acted swiftly to block this unconstitutional law attacking Planned Parenthood providers and patients. That's what Planned Parenthood Federation of America said. Also Planned Parenthood League of Massachusetts and Planned Parenthood association of Utah in a joint statement, all three of them, quote, already in states across the country, providers and health center staff have been forced to turn away patients who use Medicaid to get basic sexual and reproductive health care because Trump and his backers in Congress passed a law to block them from going to Planned Parenthood. There are no other providers who can fill the gap if the defunding of Planned Parenthood is allowed to stand. The fight is just beginning, and we look forward to our day in court. The provision bans state Medicaid funding to health care groups primarily engaged in family planning services, reproductive health and related medical care, including abortions for one year, while federal law already prohibits health care providers from using federal Medicaid funds for abortion unless the pregnancy endangers the life of the mother or is the result of rape or incest. While a provision in the billionaire bailout bill doesn't directly name Planned Parenthood, the group alleged in its lawsuit Monday, the legislation is a naked attempt to leverage the government's spending power to attack and penalize Planned Parenthood and impermissibly single it out for unfavorable treatment. The group claimed that the law violates its equal protection rights and retaliates against protected speech. So that preliminary injunction hearing July 21st all right everybody, it's time for some good trouble. What are you guys doing? All right everybody. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Wants health and Human Services employees to snitch on their colleagues who have supported diversity, equity and inclusion. And it looks like the form is open to anyone. We will have a link to it in the show Notes do your worst. All right everybody, Stick around. We'll be right back with the amazing Garrett Graf to talk about Long Shadow, the new season of his podcast. So stick around. We'll be right back after these messages.
- [23:22]
Garrett Graff
We'll be right back.
- [23:24]
Alison Gill
Hey everybody. This episode is sponsored by Peak. If sleep feels more like a struggle than a reset, you are not alone. Between stress screens and constant distractions, the news unwinding at night can be more difficult than it should be. That's why I've added Peek's Re Fountain Electrolyte to my evening routine. You just mix one sachet into a glass of water and it becomes a nightly ritual that does a lot of good. For me, the benefits were obvious. Almost immediately, I felt more grounded. I didn't toss and turn as much. The next morning, instead of feeling groggy or sluggish, I woke up clear headed and ready to go. I felt like my nervous system had been reset in the best way. The formula is what makes the difference. Peak uses their proprietary Triple biomaxed magnesium blend. Magnesium is the key everybody. It includes glycanate, Taurate and L Threonate, three of the most absorbable forms of magnesium. They work deep within your system like a cellular level, to help your brain relax and your body truly recover. And as for ingredients, this is one of the cleanest products I've Ever tried? No sugar, no artificial flavors, no fillers, no junk. Just organic lemon juice, lemongrass and pink Himalayan sal. It tastes light and it's refreshing. After a few days, you really start to notice the shift. Sleep becomes deeper. Stress feels more manageable. Your entire routine starts to feel calmer. It's not just a supplement. It's a simple and reliable tool for better rest. And here's something just for you. Peak is offering 10% off for life. Yes, for life. Just for being a listener. They've even backed it with a 90 day money back guarantee. So head to peaklife.comdailybeans to try our E Fountain. Now that's Peak Life. P I q u e peaklife.com dailybeans because better sleep isn't a luxury, it's a necessity. You deserve to wake up clear, calm and ready to take on your day. Hey everybody, welcome back. I'm happy to be joined today by somebody who's been coming on the Daily Beans and Melissa wrote podcast since, gosh, since the first Trump administration. And he is the host of a podcast called Long Shadow. It's in season four now, breaking the Internet. We've got three episodes out and four to go. And this comes out weekly. So please welcome Robert F. Kennedy journalism award winner, Pulitzer finalist, author, journalist, historian, Garrett Graff. Hi, Garrett, how are you?
- [25:34]
Garrett Graff
Hi, I'm good. And just to clarify for your listeners, that's the Good RFK Award. It's the RFK Senior Award for Excellence in Journalism.
- [25:45]
Alison Gill
Oh, you didn't win the Anti Vaxxer.
- [25:47]
Garrett Graff
Award from it's not the Maha Journalism Award. Thanks so much for having me. It's a pleasure to talk to you as always. As we were saying beforehand, I feel like I have been joining you since we had the good old days when Covid was actually the biggest thing that we were actually worried about.
- [26:06]
Alison Gill
Yeah, I remember those days. That's not where the RFK Junior Award came from. So everybody, just a, just a little bit of a clarification there. So talk to us about season four. This is fascinating by the way. You can get this wherever you get your podcasts. It's called Long Shadow. We've been listening, I've been listening now for years. So tell us about season four. What prompted it?
- [26:28]
Garrett Graff
Yeah. So every season for Long Shadow we try to pick a pressing public policy issue and explain how America got to now and to try to pick something and go back over the history and look at how America ended up at the moment that it is in on a particular subject. So for the second season for instance, we looked at the rise of the American far right. Last year. We looked actually at the evolution of gun violence and gun policy in America. And then this year, as we were thinking about what is the biggest, most challenging topic in American life right now, the subject that we came back to very quickly was the Internet. And trying to figure out how this tool of the Internet and social media that was supposed to bring us together has instead driven us apart. How this tool that was supposed to democratize information and upend authoritarianism and demand transparency and accountability for government has instead been weaponized against our daily lives and our politics and our democracy and turned into, I think, for many people, this toxic cesspool of hate and misogyny and racism and online harassment. And our goal across these seven episodes is to really go back to the foundations of the World Wide Web in the 1990s and the start of the Web 2.0 movement in the 2000s and the rise of social media to figure out how we get to now. How do we get to the point where. Where, you know, Facebook and Instagram and Twitter and X and these platforms demand and take up so much of our attention and have polarized so much of daily life.
- [28:58]
Alison Gill
Yeah, and the last time we had you on, we talked about the rise of the far right, and I think this dovetails nicely with that. You know, we see the takeover of Twitter by Elon Musk. We see truth social media. We've always had telegram getter and things, you know, of that nature. And you have a. The latest episode that's out now from Long Shadow is about Facebook and. And how that has been utilized and weaponized. And I remember going back, having you on the show, having you on Mueller, she wrote way back in the day, talking about, you know, that guy Nader and. And, you know, paying in crypto for, you know, Cambridge Analytica, Facebook data and all that stuff. And this sort of all just kind of comes together to a head. So I think it's really fascinating the way that you've laid out these episodes.
- [29:46]
Garrett Graff
Yeah. And what was interesting for me in working on this was this is actually history that I have lived to a certain extent myself. You know, I. My. Much of my career has been on the new media, new journalism side. I actually, right out of college worked. I'm a Vermonter and worked on Howard Dean's presidential campaign in 2003, 2004, which was really the first successful online political movement, presidential campaign in the United States. Successful up until the point where we didn't actually win the presidential nomination. But successful as an organizing movement. And then when I arrived in Washington as a journalist, my first job was writing a blog. And in 2004, 2005, and I wrote a blog called Fishbowl DC that was. That covered media in Washington was actually in early 2005, the first blogger accredited to cover a White House press briefing, which was a big moment back in that era. And so I really lived this period of hope and energy and excitement about this technology in a way that I have, you know, watched with my own horror as this tool has been weaponized against so much of American daily life and our politics. I've spent most of the last decade actually as a contributing editor at Wired and working on the cybersecurity program at the Aspen Institute, and sort of going through these moments where, you know, you have the Russian attack by the Internet Research Agency, you have the North Korean hack of Sony Pictures, these two moments that I think sort of look much bigger in the rear view mirror than they were realized at the time. And then, of course, as you said, this last two years, when we have watched Elon Musk purchase and destroy Twitter and use it to turn himself into what I think, at least for a couple of months here, was the de facto head of government in the United States. And this is a tool that I think most of us, certainly people who are listening to your podcast, spend a lot of our day consuming and living around. And I don't love the direction any of it is heading.
- [32:46]
Alison Gill
Yeah, well, I had to get off Twitter. I couldn't. I couldn't be there anymore. It just turned into sort of like a. My whole feed was filled with these, you know, people who buy their verification. And it seemed like what I was being fed were violent videos and, you know, stuff that comes from the minds of these tech prologarchs that want to kind of control the narrative, so to speak, both literally and figuratively. And so, you know, now we're in this position where we all flood over to Blue sky and try to find a place where we can interact like we used to on Twitter. Because Twitter, you know, prior to Elon Musk's purchase, was a driver of a lot of important stuff. Arab Spring comes to mind. Dealing with disasters, alerting each other to certain things, getting just news, updated news on the regular. And now it's like this. It's not habitable anymore.
- [33:45]
Garrett Graff
Yeah. And by the way, one of the things you mention there strikes home for me this week of all weeks as we are watching the fallout of the disaster in the flooding in Texas and the horrific tragedy at those summer camps and the extent to which we have seen over the last decade, so many communities migrate their emergency management announcements to Facebook and Twitter in ways that at one time seemed quite laudable, because that was when you have the collapse of local news that we have experienced across the United States in the last decade. You know, in some ways, you know, the Facebook pages are, you know, the most wide reaching community bulletin boards in a lot of communities. But the way that Musk has changed the tenor of, of Twitter, you know, I think has done a great disservice to a lot of communities that rely on that to spread news about emergency announcements and emergency management situations.
- [35:08]
Alison Gill
Yeah. And it also doesn't help that they've gutted NOAA and the National Weather Service and a lot of those positions aren't there anymore. And now the Navy satellites aren't sharing weather data anymore with noaa. Not that there's anyone there to receive it, but it's just this perfect storm. And what did you find out about how much of this is by design?
- [35:29]
Garrett Graff
So that, to me was actually the most interesting part of the arc of our season was coming to understand just how much of this is and has been very conscious choices by the social media companies. And when you look at it across this 25, 30 year time span that we're trying to cover in our series, what you see is that there were two paths for a lot of these social media companies in the 2000s. You know, there was a nonprofit model or a sort of subscriber pay model, and then there was the advertising model. And the fact that basically all of them chose advertising as the way to make their profits meant that what they needed to do was build user engagement and keep people on the site for longer and time in and time out. What that has meant is that for the last 15, you know, 18 years, sites like Twitter and Facebook have prioritized spreading content that makes people angry, because that is the content you are most likely to engage with. That sort of as much as human nature says, oh, I'd really love to see more happy news out there, the actual answer is the thing that gets you to comment on a website, the thing that gets you to share a post, the thing that gets you to click one of the reaction emoticons on a post, is that you hate it, is that it makes you angry, is that it turns you against someone else. And that actually you can see that reflected. We now understand, again, this is, this is sort of the, you know, quote unquote, fun of doing Some of this history reporting for the podcast because we didn't understand how this was happening and why it was happening at the time. As we were living through these moments, Facebook reached a point where, in essence, the dislike button was rated four or five times as heavily in algorithms as the like button. And so, you know, the things that made you the maddest were the things that Facebook kept serving you even more of.
- [38:29]
Alison Gill
Yeah. And not only that, but that, that also helped to mold the ad rev. Models.
- [38:33]
Garrett Graff
Exactly.
- [38:34]
Alison Gill
For ad revenue. We talked, we've talked about this and this is why I'm like, so, like into this podcast and so glad you covered it is because the anger and dislike emojis were weighted sometimes up to, yeah, like five, sometimes up to seven times as much, especially for algorithmic needs and ad revenue as a Like or Love react. And that's why every time I'm on the Internet, if something makes me angry, I stop and think, are they farming my engagement? I'm the product here.
- [39:04]
Garrett Graff
Yeah. And that's exactly the, the, the saying that ends up guiding a lot of this, which is, you know, the old adage, you know, if you're not paying for it, then you're the product. And the thing that we, I think, sort of didn't wrap our heads around as, you know, a collective culture and as individual users during the 2010s was the extent to which these algorithmic news feeds on social media were being literally scientifically designed to polarize us and make us angry. Because that was the best way to keep us engaged with these websites, which was the way to sell the most ads to make the most profit.
- [39:58]
Alison Gill
So besides my suggestion of if you see something on the Internet and it makes you mad, stop and think. Because, you know, I've compared it when I did some write ups to the ants in a jar. You know, you got black ants and red ants in a jar and somebody shakes and they're fine, and then somebody shakes it and they all start killing each other. And it's about who's shaking the jar, not about the enemies inside the jar. And you know, I think about that a lot. Besides that, what can we do?
- [40:27]
Garrett Graff
You know, I think that there are. Part of the challenge of all of this is there are no simple answers to any of this. Right. Like, there is no easy button. There is no simple fix. There's no simple piece of regulation or legislation that the Congress could pass if Congress was passing anything like competent, serious legislation these days. It's a lot of little things. And some of it is exactly what you're doing, which is all of us making smarter, healthier choices about the way that we spend time and the places that we spend time online. You mentioned Blue Sky. I'm a total blue sky convert, myself as a longtime Twitter user. And what, you know, one of the things that Blue sky has is that it does not have an algorithmic newsfeed. And that makes it, you know, in some ways harder to spread pieces or sort of big pieces of news or, or articles. But at the same time, you know, it makes it much harder to game. I think some of this is also, you know, encouraging people to support what remaining local news infrastructure exists in the United States. And, you know, I think it is not nothing that we have seen. Studies show that Donald Trump did best in places that are local news deserts across the country. And that one of the things the Trump administration is doing this spring is trying to, you know, further curtail and sink, you know, the national network of public radio and public television stations across the country, that in many of these communities across the country, your local public media station is the last remaining, you know, TV station or radio station serving a lot of rural communities across the across the country. And, you know, I think some of it is also, you know, resisting, as you said, the desire to be polarized. You know, I think we have actually, much of America, I think, has loved turning everything into politics in the last decade and this moment where sort of everything feels existential and we sort of all feel like we are in this battle over all culture and all values, on all things, on all topics, all the time. And that's just not really a healthy way to go through life. And so I think to some extent, you know, I think it's all of us trying to turn down the temperature where we can as well.
- [43:48]
Alison Gill
Yeah, agreed and appreciated. And everybody, the podcast is called Long Shadow and it's distributed by the Public Radio Exchange prx. So to throw in a little love for our public news radio and a public news distribution system, that is who is distributing Long Shadow. So we appreciate you coming on today. There's three episodes out, everybody, four more to come. It's gonna be released every Tuesday. It's a weekly podcast and it's a limited series and award winning podcast. Thank you so much for coming and talking to us about it.
- [44:23]
Garrett Graff
My pleasure. Great to see you again.
- [44:24]
Alison Gill
It's always good to see you. I know we'll have you back soon, possibly season five, but hopefully before then. And I really appreciate your time. Garrett Grafton. All right, everybody, stick around. We'll be Right back with the good news. Hey everybody, welcome back. It's time for the good news. Who likes good news?
- [44:40]
Garrett Graff
Everyone? Then good news everyone.
- [44:57]
Alison Gill
And if you could just flood us with good news for the foreseeable future, something super like, just stop. Think about your day yesterday and any little good thing that happened, we want to hear about it. We need to microdose hope, right? So send it to us@dailybeanspod.com and click on contact. Any good news you can think of. And it doesn't even have to be personal. It can just be something that you saw some good news somewhere in the news that we didn't cover here, you can send that to us. You can send us a shout out to a spouse or a loved one or a partner or somebody you work with, a coworker, maybe somebody doing great community activism in your area, a small business that could use a boost or your small business. Give us a self shout out. We love those. Also shout outs to government programs that have helped you or a loved one. It can be the Affordable Care Act, Medicare, Medicaid, snap, wic, free school lunches, anything. Anything that you can think of. I mean, I remember when I went to school and we, we got free school lunches. I mean now it was pizza because at the time pizza was considered a vegetable, but, but still we had free school lunches and it really made a difference to how I was able to learn in the classroom. So anything at all, send it to us dailybeanspod.com click on contact. And to get your submission right on the air, you just gotta pay your pod pet tariff, which means attach a photo of your pet. If you don't have a pet, send us an adoptable pet in your area. If you don't have that, grab a random photo of an animal on the Internet. That works just as well. We're doing bird watching right now, which is either an actual bird or you and your family and friends flipping the bird to Trump and Musk Properties. And we also accept family photos, awkward family photos, weird photos of you crying on Santa's lap, or big weird Easter bunnies, baby photos if you have them. Anything at all, you can send it to us. A photo of your happy place even works. Whatever. Just send it to us@dailybeanspod.com and click on contact. First up from Kara Pronoun. She and her hello beans Queens. I thought I was too late, but you asked today for more pics of the no Kings marches, so here's mine. Yes, it's never too late. You can send them whenever I went to a small but much bigger than expected rally in Centralia, Washington with my parents. This may sound like an unimpressive threesome, but in fact there were five of us, two biological parents and both of their spouses plus two dogs. My parents divorced in 89 when I was 11, but recently they've been hanging out and visiting each other's houses, including more than a month around Christmas as a foursome. I find this funny, but also really nice. I guess it's a sign that we can all just get along if we can remember to be grown ups about it. I'm in the pick too, but my stepmom sign is blocking my face. The rally was lovely. It was the first political march ever for my stepmom and maybe also my dad, and she couldn't wait to tell everyone. She kept trying to start a chant like my first rally and then my dad was embarrassed. I love Jerry. The two dogs My sisters are a beagle, obviously, and an enigma. She's just a puppy, but her origins are unclear. A DNA test says she's Australian shepherd, but my mom asked for her money back out of disbelief. Google thinks she's a schnoodle, but that was their last dog and she looks quite dissimilar, so guess it will. And the guinea pig is mine. His full name Herbie Hairpiece. That's fantastic. Hi guinea pig. Hi pig. Oh my gosh, that dog looks like a schnauzer. Maltipoo maybe? I don't know. Adorable dog though. Very great. Look at this fam. Morons are governing America. MAGA fascism is bad. Signed history, no king since 1776. Pro America, anti Trump. Love it. Love your signs. Love this. Kara, thank you so much. If you've got photos of you at no Kings, send them in. We want to see them. Next up from Anonymous pronoun She and her hi ladies of the Daily Beans. Two thank yous. Allison first, thank you for the refried beans this past weekend with Jason Kander. He's always inspired me with his courage, humor and good deeds for veterans. Second, thank you for seeing us in Texas. With over 30 million residents, it's probably not readily apparent that we are not all the scourge of the earth and irrevocably evil like those assholes. I won't waste anyone's time mentioning we know who they are. I just wanted to highlight some good Texans. The late, great Molly Is it Ivins who once famously said that Texas serves as a national laboratory for bad government? Retired Admiral William McRaven. Yes, who reminds us that there are little things that can change your life and maybe change the world. Like the heroic actions of everyone helping in the search, rescue and recovery efforts in Central Texas. And my personal hero, Barbara Jordan, the first black woman from a Southern state to serve in a US Congress. She made a memorable speech during the House Judiciary Committee's impeachment hearings in 1974 in which she said, my faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I'm not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution. I highly recommend anyone looking for inspirations to watch her video and her entire speech. She was an outstanding public speaker for my Pod Pet Tariff. Here's a photo of my tuxedo kitty, Sam. I love tuxedos. Who wears his heart on his nose? Yes, he does and just turned 14 years young on Saturday. Thank you for keeping us all informed and hopeful. Thank you. Thank you Anonymous for mentioning those outstanding Texans. Really, really appreciate that. If you have any great examples of some wonderful people from Texas, send them in any red state, really, because we're everywhere. We really are. Next up, Marian Pronoun. She and her I had a great bike ride the other day. It always cheers me up and especially heartening at the end of it. I got to participate in a performance art protest on California 198 for the benefit of Sequoia park visitors this holiday weekend. I hope I'm not the only one from Traction 3 Rivers letting you know about it. Any other Traction members here in the Leguminati? Here's a link to my Blue sky post. We'll have this and my Pod Pet Tariff photo is of my son's cat, Boss running interference on daughter's creative work. Boss got that name for a reason. Hi baby girl. She's adorable. Look at that. Yep, helping just standing on your work, Marian. Thank you so much for that. I love that little end of the bike ride. Participation in a performance art protest. That's so great. All right, next up from Anonymous Pronoun she and her I have something pretty to share. Anna Browns, a Pacific Northwest artist and writer, created this beautiful print of a trillium with the phrase triliumares not billionaires. I bought some stickers for myself and my friends. Anna also makes posters. If you'd like a bigger statement at protests, you can find her here and we'll have a link in the show. Notes. Here's a photo of two incredibly furry bumblebees on Coyote Mint. A California native plant and a photo of Biscuit almost completely hidden in his blanket. Trillionaires, not billionaires. I love it. It's beautiful. Aw. Fuzzy bumblebees and a kitty in a basket. Thank you. It's a pretty ginger kitty. All right, next up and our final submission from Michael J. Pronouns he and him. Hey, Ms. Beans, you made my heart sore when you quoted the Jane's Addiction song titled Stop. All of my cats have passed away. And even years later, I'm still not ready to rescue another fur baby yet. So I grabbed a picture from the interwebs that still makes me cackle with glee every time I see it. Why? Because I'm not the poor unfortunate sucker that this cat is swimming towards. Speaking of getting into good trouble, I'm looking forward to the mass protests on July 17th. Fuck this fucked up administration and their fucking fuckery. Gonna join me? Fuck yeah. Look at this cat. This is great. Michael J. Thanks. Such a good album. The whole thing. Ritual de la habitual from beginning to end. If you have a chance, if you have a minute, put it on. I think you'll enjoy it. All right, everybody, that is our show. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sending in your good news. If you have more good news, please send it to us dailybeanspod.com and click on contact. I'll be back in your ears tomorrow. There is a new episode of cleanup on aisle 45 out today. Go check it out and I'll see you. I'll see you when I see you. Until then, please take care of yourselves, take care of each other, take care of the planet, take care of your mental health and take care of your family. I've been ag and them's the beans. Senores y senoras, nosotros tremos mas influencia. The Daily Beans is written and executive produced by Allison Gill with additional research and reporting by Dana Goldberg. Sound design and editing is by Desiree McFarlane with art and web design by Joelle Reader with Moxie Design Studios. Music for the Daily Beans is written and performed by they Might Be Giants and the show is a proud member of the MSW Media Network, a collection of creator owned podcasts dedicated to news, politics and justice. For more information, please visit mswmedia.com msw media.