C (3:35)

Hi. Best way to be able to spend my time is with you, especially when we are truth seeking and getting the info out to the American people.

B (3:45)

I agree, my friend. And you do it so well. And we should like take a moment also to thank Midas for amplifying our voices and always. Yeah. And thereby amplifying the voices of whistleblowers and survivors, you know, the folks who matter in this investigation. And Katie, before we get into the detail of how we decided to report this, let's first revisit all of the ways in which those who've decided to protect Epstein's co conspirators and clients. Let's go over all the ways they have left survivors to fend for themselves. Right. We can start going all the way back. The government has a long history of neglecting and going after survivors, particularly in this case. We can start with the 1996 FBI report just released filed by Maria Farmer that sat in a drawer for 10 years before they did anything.

C (4:43)

Not only that, I mean, it always makes you wonder why victims don't come forward. Right. Like it just underscores the reason why when you're a victim of a crime, especially one that involves sexual abuse and especially one when you are young, when you're a child. Right. If you're a minor, you're already going in, having your credibility question just because the sheer age of who you are. Right. Just that alone. So you have that obstacle you have to overcome. And then people even in law enforcement inherently kind of just cringe or reflexively kind of just like shrink a little bit when they deal with issues of sexual abuse. Right. There is something about that that I think makes a lot of people even in law enforcement reluctant to have to explain floor do. And then when you have these repeated though notifications of tips and information to law enforcement, it really makes you wonder who was at the wheel of responsibility that far back. Because how can the failure to help these victims and survivors last decades? It's one thing to maybe have a failure point where maybe just one agent or one agency maybe dropped the ball, but it transcends just the FBI. It encompasses the Department of Justice, which is offensive. And then it also goes so far as the accountability of just individuals. People that saw that heard that knew and didn't speak up. And you also have not to even just lay the blame solely, Alison, at the feet of federal law enforcement. You had state law enforcement in the state of Florida that was looking into things as early as the 90s and in the 2000s. Right. Because that was transpiring in Palm Beach County. And so you had systemic failures. And I think it just goes to show how much we always, always disappoint our victims and survivors of sexual abuse.

B (6:58)

Yeah, agreed, 100%. And you know, you talk about, is it a single issue? When does it, when does it reach the tipping point of becoming a system issue or a systemic cover up? Like the, I mean, just one example, the Trump ally at the D.C. fBI field office named Dan Tuono, who refused to allow the Department of Justice to issue subpoenas for January 6th for top of the coup people. And so Merrick Garland had to get the inspector general and the post office cops to execute his search warrants because there was this bottleneck. Right. We had the 1400 tips on the Kavanaugh hotline that went unanswered. And even in some of the documents that have been released so far by the Department of Justice, we saw law enforcement threatening to charge these survivors with prostitution even though they were 14 years old. So it's, you know, I'm always saying that if you wonder why people don't report their sexual assault, this is why.

C (8:04)

Because it seems like the deck is stacked against you from the agencies and the organizations that are supposed to be there to help you. And it's interesting because when you look at non prosecution memos, when you look at closeout memos, when you look at a lot of the kind of evaluative statements that were made for decades concerning Jeffrey Epstein and the investigations surrounding him. So much of the attacks on the credibility of the victims and the witnesses was coming from the people in positions of power. And so when you have a decision made not to pursue a federal indictment by the Southern District of Florida and it's either done, you know, by just Alex Acosta who didn't bother to find out the real facts and the real evidence and to defer to the knowledge of an assistant U.S. attorney who did know and had prepared a, you know, 60 something count indictment, right. Like, why not defer. One, I honestly believe it's because she was a woman. I do think that baked in misogyny was a big part of that. And two, I also believe that Acosta was getting pressure not to pursue this, not only externally from powerful defense attorneys and other wealthy People. But I do believe internally at the Department of Justice, he was getting pressure not to pursue this. And so how much more disappointing can it be? And crushing, so soul crushing can it be for these victims now when they are coming forward, some of them with total bravery to be very public facing, some of whom maybe are weighing that possibility, but aren't quite there to find out that their privacy and confidentiality is just being violated with zero concern. Because people just want to be lazy and incompetent. And frankly, I think also intent, intentionally cruel. I don't think they care. Right. So they're not exercising the caution you think not only they should, but that they're required to do.

B (10:03)

Right. And, you know, that was my second point in my long list of how this administration abandons survivors. And let's be fair, it's not just this administration, like I said, 1996 to 2006, the FBI report sat in a drawer for 10 years. But survivors weren't notified, as required by law, about the Epstein sweetheart deal. Their lawyers were paid for by Epstein and Alan Dershowitz. Alex Acosta, who went on to get a cushy job with Trump, who now sits on the board of Newsmax, by the way, just recently got that job.

C (10:32)

And that gives you some money, too, right there.

B (10:34)

It's, I mean, it's, it's awful to think about. And survivors also weren't notified about Ghislaine Maxwell's move to Club Fed in Texas. So they, they were left out of that decision. We had the, the thousand FBI analysts and, you know, I spoke to, to several of them at the FBI and doj who were, you know, did the review of the Epstein files, the, the Epstein Transparency Project, which the FBI called this bullshit, this past March, they actually had to fight against Patel and Bondi to redact the survivor information. They wanted to. Patel wanted all of the survivor information handed over to him and handed over to Pam Bondi. And the, it was, it was the FBI agents that said, no, we're not just going to redact Trump's name from this, as per your training videos, which I've filed a Freedom of Information act request for. But we are also, we aren't going to do this unless we can also, under the rules of redaction, protect the victim's names. So they fought for that.

C (11:36)

You know, it was stunning to me that ultimately the decision was made by the Office of Professional Responsibility for the Department of Justice that Acosta and others shouldn't be held responsible for their failure to notify the victims as to what was going to transpire with the federal prosecution, which was. It was going to be killed. The prosecution and that, you know, the state attorneys, by the way, that's why I also say the Palm Beach County State Attorney's office, you know, also involved in this. Right. This is not just something that lays at the feet of the feds, the Palm Beach County State Attorney's office, and the sheriff's department up there. But I am grateful, Alison, that we have had at least two to three federal judges that have gone out of their way to write incredibly thoughtful orders as this litigation has been going on, the criminal cases, the motions to unseal, the grand jury records, et cetera. And they have painstakingly detailed the repeated failures to honor and respect the victims and survivors of Epstein. And they have been wholesale calling out the DOJ and the federal government and their respective law enforcement agencies for those failures. And so at least there are some federal judges that are saying, this is wrong, this is how it's wrong. And I'm not going to let you get away with it anymore. I'm going to make sure that you protect the victims because you continuously fail to protect them.

B (12:59)

Yeah. And they shut down that investigation in 2007, and they shut down another one in 2025. When Trump took office, there was an open, ongoing investigation into uncharged third parties. Trump shut it down, stole all the files and fired all the prosecutors. And it seemed like the writing was on the wall there, and the survivors were 50 or so were being interviewed and participating in that investigation. And you're right, the judges are doing some great work. And now we've got Dems, actually Massie and Khanna, Dem and a Republican, the head of the Epstein Files Transparency act, writing to Judge Engelmeier and asking him to appoint a special master or a monitor to oversee not just what the DOJ asked him for from his court, but to oversee the release of the Epstein files or failure of the release of the Epstein files writ large. It'll be interesting to see how Judge Engelmeier finds himself jurisdiction for that if he decides that he wants to appoint a special master. But you're right, Trump DOJ used the survivors as pawns when they asked those three judges to release the grand jury material. And just like you said, a judge said, hey, you know, you're supposed to, by the factors that I have to consider in this request, you're supposed to notify the survivors. And they failed to. And so they had to hurry up and do that. They just don't care about Them. And now the administration is using the survivors as an excuse to slow roll the production of the Epstein files. Well, we've only released 1% because we want to make sure that we protect the survivors when they have no history. In fact, an opposite history of trying to do that.

C (14:48)

It's pretty disgusting, right? If you think about it, Allison, to try to use the victims as a sword and shield for you as the doj, to escape accountability and responsibility. You know, I want to bring up two things. One, I had just covered on my YouTube channel that special master issue yesterday, as well as the House oversight subpoenas that will be issued, the new ones to Les Wexner and to Darren Endyke and Richard Kahn, who were the longtime lawyer and accountant for Jeffrey Epstein. And those gentlemen, Endyke and Kahn, are the co executives of the Epstein estate. Right. But I want to go back just maybe like a week and some change to a letter that Pamela Jo sent to Judge Engelmeier stating, yeah, we know we haven't been complying. Sorry, but it's because we care so much about the victims that we've now revamped the manner within which we are going through the review of these materials to be able to securely protect the identities of the victims and the survivors. So to your well taken point, you're not turning the information over. You're on day God knows what of violating a federal law. I loved the letter from Massie and Khanna because it clearly stated that criminal activity has been committed by the doj. But that's the secondary issue. The primary issue is transparency in getting the entirety of the files released. But both Massie and Khanna, in their special master letter motion, motion letter to Judge Engelmeier, said we cannot rely on the credibility of the DOJ anymore, especially explicitly when it comes to the Epstein files because they are not credible. The numbers keep changing on the amount of documents and the pages that need to be reviewed. And at this point, the special master is necessary because somebody needs to probe the credibility and the trustworthiness of representations that have been made to the court as to why the delays have happened. But knowing that you and I were going to talk about this today, I was especially interested in this letter because it explicitly notes that, you know, Pamela Joe's letter as well as Todd Blanche's letter back on December 19th when the first tranche dropped of those Epstein files, they keep on saying that their primary goal is compliance with the protection of the victims. And yet you're about to blow that the lid off of that bullshit. Excuse me, with what you're gonna tell.

B (17:19)

The folks, you know, it's so, it's so funny. I just written down to say. Yeah, and regarding that Pamela Jo letter, I have proof this week and we're about to share it with you that her concern for victims is bullshit. So I was. Yeah. So National Security Councilor sent me a referral to a whistleblower who showed me some very important information that we felt was important to share. But we wanted to do it in a way that would not teach bad actors how to find this survivor info that has been exposed. We included survivors in this discussion as well as some other people who had contacts to House Oversight to try to come up with a solution. I contacted you, I was like, tell me about the legal and ethical issues here. Because as I said, whistleblower's main concern, FBI agents main concern was protecting the survivors and getting this info to friendlies on the House Oversight Committee. But it's very difficult to reach the House Oversight Committee. And the ultimate goal here was to draw public attention to this matter, to what the Department of Justice has done here to endanger the identities of survivors without exposing how it was done. Like how on. I think I. The example I used when I spoke to you, Katie, was, you know, I've seen some, I watch some forensic files, it's a show that I watch. And when they want to tell you that a killer has devised a new way to make an improvised explosive device or they've developed an untraceable poison, they're always like, we're not going to share that formula with you today, but we wanted to bring to light an attention that the fact that it exists. Right, Yeah.

C (19:11)

I mean that was the catch 22 that you and I struggled with. Right. We wanted to expose the negligence, the hypocrisy again, I think also the intentional cruelty of not having exacting standards to protect these victims and survivors, but at the same time not provide the roadmap as I had called it, to be able to access this otherwise confidential information. Because why add acid to the wound? Why not even salt? Like why compound the problem? And that really was the big pickle that we were trying to work our way through. Right.

B (19:52)

And so what I was shown, again, I am not going to tell you all how it's done and how the survivors names are exposed or where they're exposed. But I have seen proof, confirmed proof that the Department of Justice either negligently or maliciously has left many survivors names and information exposed in the current public production and back to Pamela Jo's letter about, oh, we really care about the survivors and protecting their names. This person showed me proof that they had contacted and received the confirmation from the Department of Justice on December 21 about this issue and other photos that are still out there that are not properly redacted to protect survivors. The DOJ got that information, confirmed receipt of that information on December 21, and it has still not been corrected. So I can confirm that by what I have seen. But these discrepancies have been out there since December 21st and nothing has been done by this Department of Justice that cares so deeply and in fact is not able to comply with the law because they care so much about protecting survivors.

C (21:22)

Yeah, and that's the most offensive thing, right? It's again, using the victims as an excuse for your non compliance with a federal law. Because you know what's incredibly unfair about that, Allison, is it truly puts the onus on the judges and other people that are seeking true justice for these folks to have to go through the process of saying, well, you don't want to rush them for fear that they are going to expose these names and identities. But heck, this date came and went in December. So the fact that they are now still trying to actively enlist volunteer lawyers to go through these documents, the fact that they have now taken lawyers away from the National Security Division, not only in the Southern District of Florida, but that they are tasking hundreds of lawyers to try to do this in the Southern District of New York. What's disgusting is the DOJ is pretty much saying, oh, I guess public safety is a secondary issue to the Epstein files because we can't really adequately deal with all the other crimes that are happening and all the other business in our office offices because we have to deal with compliance with the Epstein files. If it really was a sense of respect for the law and some urgency and making sure that the American people got the truth, they would have been working triple time. Right. Triple, quadruple overtime during that time. And you know what's kind of wild too, I had mentioned Allison, according to Pamela Jo, she had the Epstein files on her desk, did she not? She had the files on her desk months ago. So not quite sure what they've been doing with it other than the fact that they transferred the entire file from the Southern District of New York to Main justice in January of 2025, where it has been. So it's not like it's been sitting somewhere else as you and I have covered. It's not like, you know, you suddenly stumble over 500 banker's boxes of Epstein files while you're looking for the coffee packs, you know.

B (23:17)

Yeah, and the triple quadruple overtime was paid to redact Donald Trump's name and his friends names.

C (23:23)

But forget the victims, but we gotta take care of Trump. Right, right.

B (23:27)

That's their whole thing. I mean, I sat and I watched that Jack Smith interview testimony before.

C (23:34)

Yeah, that was great.

B (23:35)

Before the House Judiciary. And 99% of the questions from Republicans weren't about the safety of the American people or anything. They were really concerned that their phone records had been legally by. By Jack Smith. And when they were like, well, who's going to be held accountable, accountable for this if this is illegal? And Jack Smith just looks at him, he's like, Donald Trump, he called you. If he had called Democrats, I would have subpoenaed Democrats information. Like Donald Trump is who you hold accountable. But I want to also just be clear here. We're not going to tell you about this negligence and how to find it so that it can expose survivor information. It is not what I tell you. It is not. It is not. Remember a couple weeks ago Techter found that if you copied and pasted and you know, put in a different document, you could remove the redaction bars because they weren't done properly. And I don't know if that's because they went down to a lower licensing number of Adobe Pro or not. They did in May of 2025. They might not have had enough licenses to have enough people have access to that.

C (24:42)

About. What about Elon and Doge Alison? Weren't they getting rid of waste? I mean, is that their version of getting rid of waste is reducing the number of licenses for effective and quality Adobe Acrobat?

B (24:54)

Yeah, well, you know, they totally care about women, which is why they helped get Andrew Tate's devices back and free him from Romania, because they care about women so much. But I do have some good news that I came, but I am sorry, I want to go back for a second. I just wanted to make clear this, this is not that this is something new. And again, I want to expose the Department of Justice for this malfeasance. But, but I also, I just don't feel. Katie, you and I agreed and we also spoke to survivors. They agreed. We also spoke to the whistleblower and some other lawyers and they all agree that it is not in the best interest of the survivors to show you this because we don't want to give bad guys the key to survivor information because they have a long history of wanting to smear, expose, and endanger the survivors in this case. But I do have some good news. During our whole discussions this week, I was able to get a direct contact to the House Oversight. This whistleblower was just. He's like, I've already notified the DOJ. I did that on December 21st. I saw the proof of that and can confirm it as well. I need to get this in the hands of House Oversight. And it's just really difficult to get in touch with any. Any good guys in this particular situation. So we were able to find a direct contact from. I'm not even going to tell you who I got it from. I just want to protect everybody. To House Oversight. And they have. They have confirmed receipt of the information, which I also saw and can. And can confirm to you. And I can also confirm that they are taking action on this. And that is something that they were not previously aware of, Katie.

C (26:47)

I mean, there's the reward, right? In and of itself. I mean, putting that information in the hands of people that have the ability to seek the accountability for what hasn't been done. I think what this just underscores, though, Allison, is that there is a level of disregard that is the common denominator when it comes to victims and survivors by this administration. But also that it just goes to show that all of this lip service has been paid concerning the Epstein files by Trump and the Republicans and specifically this administration, and that they really are not prioritizing this either in terms of processing substance procedure. They're just not. I mean, the respect is lacking, and they're just too busy trying to figure out ways of exculpating ICE agents from murdering people and having them have prosecution and exposure for that.

B (27:45)

Yes, you can, again, totally tell that they care about women after they shoot them in the face and then mutter under their breath, fucking bitch.

C (27:54)

Oh, but if you're Ashley Babbitt, you are not a domestic terrorist. We're gonna give your family millions of dollars if you're Ashley Babbitt. But if you're Renee Nicole Goode, unarmed US citizen, 37 years old, stuffed animals in the car, your wife, the stuffed animals.

B (28:11)

I just broke down.

C (28:13)

I got upset even with. And I got upset with the dog in the backseat. I mean, I know some people may think I'm crazy for that. I was just this. The sanctity, though, of. Of that. And I read yesterday out loud, and it broke me. The statement from her wife, Becca Goode, and one of the things she said was, may we all Kind of live by the principles of Renee's life. Compassion and kindness and goodness and acceptance. But she says, may we all be able to come home safely to the ones that we love. And for me to not have this woman come home to her wife, her children, her dog, I mean, all of it. Right. That the sanctity of that family unit being violated really hurts.

B (28:56)

Yeah. It really does. And I mean, you and I have reported on Mara Martinez. That was a story that wasn't covered very heavily. But I know that I spoke about it here on Midas. You spoke about it. Woman was shot five times. And when the guy pulled up, she didn't. It's always the same story with DHS and Trisha McLaughlin. They weaponized their vehicle, they boxed us in and tried to run us over, and we feared for our lives. They have a lot. Border patrol has a 15 year history of doing this, by the way. Jumping in front of cars to justify violence.

C (29:30)

They've been told to stop jumping in front of cars.

B (29:33)

Yeah. It's even in their policy, try not to walk in front of a vehicle when you stop it. But Marmar Martinez shot five times. The guy rolled up, rolled down his window, pointed a gun at her and said, do something, bitch. And then shot her five, seven. Five times. And then texted his friends. Five shots, seven holes, high five, laugh, laugh or whatever.

C (29:54)

But he was fearing for his life because she was trying to use her vehicle to ram them. And then when push came to shove, the evidence showed otherwise. Which is why I'm relieved to see that the Henneman county da, Hennepin county da, as well as Keith Allison, the AG in Minnesota have been officially declared that they are going to be investigating this come hell or high water. So, you know, the feds can kiss their asses.

B (30:16)

Is that. Yeah. And that's another reason not to trust the FBI, especially this FBI. They have. They're refusing to share evidence.

C (30:24)

Allison, think how much they think about how much they screwed up the Charlie Kirk thing. And that was Charlie Kirk. I mean, that was Cash's buddy. Meet me in. Meet you in Valhalla. Right. Like the FBI screwed that up.

B (30:35)

It was local law enforcement. Yes.

C (30:37)

That had to fix this. You know, and then even that I'm suspicious about. I'm going to be very honest, I.

B (30:42)

Don'T even know what the hell.

C (30:43)

Because isn't it interesting, too? Nobody talks about it anymore. Nobody ever hears anything anymore. Like, we don't talk about it. But yeah. It took local and state law enforcement in Utah to be able to quote, unquote solve that crime. I don't trust the FBI to do that. And then clearly they can't even redact things properly at the DOJ or the FBI.

B (31:02)

Right. Yeah. Katie, I have one more piece of good news from the Epstein contact to House Oversight. I've just been told I've received information House Oversight, in addition to speaking with this whistleblower, they have agreed that they're going to improve their whistleblower contact hotline for the Epstein files, which will better respond to all the, you know, the good guys out there reviewing these files as they're released to help better protect survivor information because, you know, from being exposed. Because again, like you said, we can't trust this administration to do it. It's up to us. Just like the sedition hunters who helped jail now pardoned. And you know, January 6th, folks, members of the public, ICE observers like Renee Goode, the bystanders with all their cameras out.

C (32:00)

How, I mean, think about, I mean, we saw that being a critically important part of the George Floyd experience, right. When the murder of George Floyd, the prosecution of Derek Chauvin and other law enforcement officers, the bystander footage, the witnesses as well as the bystander footage ended up being linchpins in that prosecution. And but for all of that bystander footage in the Renee Nicole Goode murder, you know, we wouldn't probably have this comprehensive view of everything that transpired, including the moments leading up her waving other vehicles to go. Right. Like her attempting to leave and then having to hard pressed break because another car gets in front of her. Right. I mean, if that was somebody who wanted to stay, obviously, and harm people, it would not be that. So we're very grateful that people have the courage and by the way, the legal constitutional right to be able to observe. We've been seeing a lot of ICE agents in the last 48 hours intimidate, bully and threaten people invoking a particular federal statute, claiming that it's what they're doing, as in following or observing or watching a recording is some form of obstruction or impeding of official duties. And it's not, folks. But you know, everybody's got to be incredibly cautious and have situational awareness, Allison, is what I've been saying. Have some situational awareness of what's going on so that you're okay as well.

B (33:24)

Yeah. And I think Renee Goode did, which is why she was slowly leaving the scene when being attacked by unmarked, masked agents. Right. So, yeah, Canada says elbows up. I say cameras out. America, microphone's on. That's why I'm here. That's why you're here, Katie. And thank you so much for being there for me this week. I had so many legal and ethical journalism questions surrounding how to. How to put this information about risking the identities of the Epstein survivors. And I think we all came up with a great solution. I know it's probably very frustrating to the. The folks watching this that they don't know exact what this process is, but it's really the reason we are not sharing it with you is because we really, really want to make sure that we don't expose any more survivor information and that we were able to put them in touch with House Oversight to get this taken care of since DOJ hasn't done it and they've known. Confirmed. Known about it since December 21st. So thank you so much for being there and taking my questions this week and then joining me here.

C (34:35)

My hat off to you, actually, for being thoughtful, Allison. Enough to want to noodle this, to work through it because it was a particularly ethical and just morally. Ethically thorny issue. I will say this just very quickly. It's the reason why we don't expose the procedure and the method by which the DOJ has been negligent or intentionally malevolent about this. It's less so about the substantive information, which are the names and the identities. And it's more so about underscoring and amplifying and exposing the doj.

B (35:08)

Right.

C (35:09)

And their failures. So it's not so much we want to show you how to find the substantive information. It's more we want to tell you about why there's been these failures for our victims and the survivors.

B (35:21)

Yeah. Thank you so much for joining me. Also thanks to whistleblowers everywhere. You're amazing and you're brave. Thank you to the survivors who helped with this. Thanks to House Oversight for getting some contact info to this particular whistleblower and thanks for your work to continue to improve the ways in which we citizen journalists can contact House Oversight when we find discrepancies like this so that they can be reported and corrected to help continue to protect the survivors. Because again, the bigger picture is, Katie, we have to make it so that survivors and victims of crimes feel comfortable coming forward. That's just so very important. I have personal experience with this and it means a lot that you helped me with this this week. And again, the whistleblower is anonymous, but thank you. You know who you are. And I just want to say thanks so much to the survivors for talking this out with us. It's really been. I consider this a little silver lining in this very dark cloud.

C (36:29)

Absolutely. Thanks, Allison, for having me.

B (36:31)

Yeah, no problem everybody. We'll see you next week on the Breakdown. Thanks for watching. Be sure to add the Midas Touch podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast for new updates every single day.

A (37:19)

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