We Can Chill Energy Transfer (feat. Deepa Padmanabha)

Summary

The Daily Beans: We Can Chill Energy Transfer (feat. Deepa Padmanabha) – Detailed Summary

Episode Information

• Title: We Can Chill Energy Transfer (feat. Deepa Padmanabha)
• Host/Author: MSW Media
• Release Date: December 23, 2024
• Description: In this episode, Allison Gill and Dana Goldberg delve into the ongoing legal battle between Greenpeace USA and Energy Transfer. Featuring an in-depth conversation with Deepa Padmanabha, Senior Legal Advisor at Greenpeace USA, the episode explores the strategic lawsuits aimed at undermining environmental advocacy and the broader implications for social justice movements.

---

1. Introduction to the Lawsuit Against Greenpeace USA

Allison Gill opens the episode expressing both excitement and frustration over the topic at hand. She introduces the central issue: a prolonged lawsuit filed by Energy Transfer against Greenpeace USA, which she asserts is designed solely to bankrupt the organization and stifle its advocacy efforts.

"We have a very long ongoing lawsuit against Greenpeace USA that is basically designed to bankrupt the organization and nothing more."
– Allison Gill [00:33]

2. Deepa Padmanabha on the Nature and History of the Lawsuit

Deepa Padmanabha provides context, explaining that the lawsuit against Greenpeace USA began in 2017 as part of a series of strategic lawsuits against public participation (SLAPPs). Initially filed as RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) lawsuits, these actions were intended to equate Greenpeace's advocacy work with organized crime.

"This narrative... is equivalent to work for organized crime."
– Deepa Padmanabha [03:20]

She emphasizes that while the RICO claims were dismissed in federal court in 2019, Energy Transfer persisted by re-filing similar cases under state law in North Dakota, where anti-SLAPP protections are absent.

3. Understanding SLAPPs and Their Impact on Advocacy

Allison Gill seeks to clarify what SLAPPs entail. Deepa Padmanabha explains that SLAPPs are not intended to win on their merits but to intimidate and silence activists through the threat of expensive litigation.

"These are lawsuits that are actually, actually not designed to win on their merits. They are designed to intimidate and to scare people and groups into silence."
– Deepa Padmanabha [05:56]

Such lawsuits have a chilling effect on free speech and collective action, making it difficult for organizations with limited resources to defend themselves against well-funded corporate adversaries.

4. The Current State Lawsuit and Its Allegations

The conversation shifts to the specifics of the current lawsuit in North Dakota. Deepa Padmanabha outlines the three primary allegations:

1. Defamation: Energy Transfer claims Greenpeace made false statements about the pipeline’s route and its impact on the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, alleging these statements caused millions in damages.

   "Energy Transfer alleges that we made false statements that caused them millions of dollars in harm."
   – Deepa Padmanabha [09:24]

2. Tortious Interference: The lawsuit accuses Greenpeace of pressuring banks to withdraw financing from the pipeline project based on alleged falsehoods, leading to significant financial losses for Energy Transfer.

   "Greenpeace lied to these banks... and we cost them hundreds of millions of dollars in damages."
   – Deepa Padmanabha [10:15]

3. Trespass and Collective Liability: The most concerning allegation is the imposition of collective liability, where Greenpeace could be held responsible for the actions of individual protesters, regardless of their involvement in unlawful activities.

   "If you're engaged in a protest, you can be held accountable for whatever happens there."
   – Deepa Padmanabha [11:07]

5. The Broader Implications for Social Movements

Allison Gill and Dana Goldberg discuss the potential ramifications if the lawsuit succeeds. They highlight the risk of setting a dangerous precedent where any peaceful protestor could be held liable for the actions of others, effectively criminalizing collective activism.

"If you wrote a peaceful protest, you could be considered liable for Heather Heyer's death."
– Dana Goldberg [13:33]

Deepa Padmanabha reinforces this concern, emphasizing that such legal tactics are part of a broader strategy to weaken and divide social justice movements, including indigenous and Black-led initiatives.

"We are seeing these attacks in indigenous, you know, in many movements."
– Deepa Padmanabha [13:33]

6. Defense Strategy and Movement Mobilization

The discussion transitions to Greenpeace USA's approach to combating the lawsuit. Deepa Padmanabha outlines a dual strategy:

1. Legal Defense: Preparing a robust legal case to challenge the meritless claims and protect Greenpeace’s rights in court.

   "We have a very strong legal defense that's going to be in the courtroom."
   – Deepa Padmanabha [16:42]

2. Movement Building: Beyond the courtroom, Greenpeace aims to fortify the broader movement by raising public awareness, fostering solidarity among diverse groups, and exposing the oppressive tactics of corporate adversaries.

   "Winning has to be much bigger than that. We need to make these lawsuits a losing tactic."
   – Deepa Padmanabha [17:56]

7. The Importance of Public Support and Awareness

Allison Gill underscores the necessity of public involvement in countering SLAPPs. Deepa Padmanabha encourages listeners to engage by visiting Greenpeace’s dedicated website, signing open letters, and spreading awareness about the lawsuit.

"Visibility is a really critical part of slap suit."
– Deepa Padmanabha [27:28]

She highlights initiatives such as greenpeaceontrial.org and urges the audience to amplify the message through their personal networks.

8. The Intersection of Environmental Advocacy and Indigenous Rights

A significant portion of the episode addresses the intersectionality of environmental activism and indigenous sovereignty. Deepa Padmanabha recounts the history of the Dakota Access Pipeline (DAPL), emphasizing how the pipeline’s rerouting impacted the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe’s land and water resources.

"This narrative... is an absolute attack on indigenous sovereignty and indigenous leadership."
– Deepa Padmanabha [22:31]

She points out that Energy Transfer’s allegations not only misrepresent Greenpeace’s role but also attempt to delegitimize indigenous voices and their rightful resistance.

9. Potential Consequences of a Negative Court Ruling

The hosts and Deepa Padmanabha discuss the dire outcomes if Energy Transfer prevails in court. Such a ruling could embolden other corporations to employ similar tactics against various advocacy groups, leading to a systemic erosion of free speech and collective action rights.

"If you go through what the company went through, you don't want to embolden these organizations."
– Deepa Padmanabha [26:00]

They draw parallels to other sectors facing similar legal pressures, including media organizations and left-leaning nonprofits, highlighting a broader pattern of suppressive legal strategies.

10. Call to Action: Supporting Greenpeace USA and Protecting Free Speech

To conclude, Deepa Padmanabha reiterates the importance of collective action in resisting SLAPPs. She outlines actionable steps for listeners to support Greenpeace USA, such as signing petitions, sharing information, and participating in community activism.

"Show that we will not be silenced."
– Deepa Padmanabha [28:30]

Allison Gill emphasizes the critical role of public support in ensuring that Greenpeace and similar organizations can continue their advocacy without fear of debilitating legal reprisals.

---

Conclusion

In this episode of The Daily Beans, Allison Gill and Dana Goldberg, alongside guest Deepa Padmanabha, shed light on the insidious use of strategic lawsuits to undermine environmental and social justice movements. The conversation not only details the specific legal challenges faced by Greenpeace USA but also explores the broader implications for collective activism and free speech. By understanding these tactics and mobilizing public support, listeners are empowered to defend the rights to protest and advocate for a more just and sustainable world.

Transcript

[Allison Gill]

MSW Media.

[Dana Goldberg]

Big shout out today to Helix Sleep. Helix is offering 20 off site wide, plus two free pillows with any mattress purchase when you go to helixsleep.com dailybeans.

[Unknown]

Jelly beans. Jelly beans. Jelly beans.

[Allison Gill]

Hello and welcome to the Daily Beans. I know it's holiday week. Thank you for hanging in with me. We have some really great content this week and today I'm very, very excited, but, like, also just as angry with the, with the person we're going to talk to today because of this very long ongoing lawsuit against Greenpeace USA that is basically designed to bankrupt the organization and nothing more. There's nothing like nothing else beyond that. And we're gonna talk about that lawsuit, what it stems from, how it's absolutely meritless and how it's, you know, it seems like it's just simply designed to bankrupt the organization. So today we're gonna talk to a senior legal advisor at Greenpeace usa, Deepa Padmanabh. Welcome.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Thank you. It's so great to be here.

[Allison Gill]

I am so thankful that you are able to come on and talk to us because we need to really start shedding light on these kinds of lawsuits that are basically just designed to quiet our First Amendment rights and our protections and our ability to protest things. Talk a little bit about where this all started because it's been going on for quite a while.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Yeah, it's been going on a while. And I appreciate, you know, particularly this moment, the opportunity to talk about the lawsuit. Because I think before I get into the details, one of the things that's.

[Unknown]

Really important to keep in mind is.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

That this is definitely an attack on Greenpeace, but it is an attack on the movement. It is an attack on our ability to speak truth, to power to exercise our First Amendment rights. And so this lawsuit obviously has incredible impacts on Greenpeace, but it impacts every one of us who cares about any issue. So I think that's something really important to understand about the lawsuit. So, yes, this lawsuit goes back to 2017. It was, it was the second in.

[Unknown]

A series of slap suits that were filed against Greenpeace.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

And one of the important things, you know, we could spend this whole time talking about just the history, but the important thing about this lawsuit was that.

[Unknown]

It originally came in the form of a RICO lawsuit. And that's the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Organizations act, which was a set of laws designed to go after the Mafia.

[Unknown]

And so in two consecutive years by the same lawyers, we were hit with.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

These RICO lawsuits seeking hundreds of millions of dollars and what was so dangerous is that this was thought to be sort of the new corporate tactic to destroy organizing. This idea that speaking out and advocacy.

[Unknown]

Is equivalent to work for organized crime.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

That was the narrative that these corporations and these law firms were trying to establish. And as you can imagine, there was.

[Unknown]

An incredible chilling effect, right? This idea that if we work together.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

We could be part of a criminal conspiracy. That was something that was very alarming.

[Unknown]

To groups across issue areas.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

So we heard from everybody, from labor.

[Unknown]

To human rights to of course, big greens.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

I mean, everybody was concerned. The good news there is that we.

[Unknown]

Got RICO thrown out of both lawsuits.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

And so while we were concerned this was going to just spread like wildfire.

[Unknown]

Now there is good law and there.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Is precedent around the use of civil RICO against advocacy groups. And I'll just note that is different.

[Unknown]

From criminal rico, which is what folks.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

In Cop City are facing. And unfortunately that still remains a big threat. So even though RICO was thrown out in 2019, that didn't stop the energy transfer lawsuit. And so what they did was they.

[Unknown]

Were no longer in federal court, but they took the state law claims still.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

You know, this idea of criminal conspiracy.

[Unknown]

And they refiled a pretty similar case.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

In North Dakota state court.

[Unknown]

And that is the case that we are currently fighting, that goes to trial in February.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

And there the allegations are basically that Greenpeace orchestrated the entire resistance at Standing Rock. And I think most people know that this is a pretty ludicrous accusation. I mean, Standing Rock was one of the largest indigenous tribal gatherings in the history of North America. It was a grassroots led resistance. And this idea that Greenpeace orchestrated it is, you know, frankly, just another attempt to erase indigenous voices in indigenous history.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah, and Energy transfer wants to would love it if Greenpeace USA just went away. And not because you are responsible for orchestrating the entire South Dakota access pipeline, you know, resistance, but because you're a thorn in the side of these kinds of polluters. And, and so talk a little bit about some folks, because folks listening might not understand what a slap suit is.

[Dana Goldberg]

Can you talk a little bit about.

[Allison Gill]

What that stands for and. And what it is?

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Yeah, I wish we had a better acronym because it's a little wonky. So first of all, slaps, they stand for strategic lawsuits against public participation.

[Unknown]

And so what that means is these are lawsuits that are actually, actually not.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Designed to win on their merits. Right. They are designed to intimidate and to scare people and groups into silence. There are often these massive lawsuits that we often don't hear about because they're filed against most of the time against.

[Unknown]

People who are just fighting to protect.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Their basic rights to clean air, clean water, protect their homes from massive developers. I mean, these are oftentimes fought in.

[Unknown]

Silence because they're people who don't necessarily.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Consider themselves to be quote, unquote, activists. There are people that are seeking to protect their communities. And so the idea behind them is.

[Unknown]

That just by filing them, you know.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

When people have a lawsuit, you know.

[Unknown]

Millions of dollars hanging over their head and they might not necessarily and oftentimes.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Don'T have the resources to fight them.

[Unknown]

That just the mere filing of the.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Suit will have the desired impact of silencing, of chilling speech.

[Unknown]

And they're oftentimes used, you know, to.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Create not just a chilling effect on the person they're filed against, but on.

[Unknown]

Everybody who might be watching.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

And that's sort of where we see Greenpeace fitting in. It's if they can succeed in silencing an organization like Greenpeace USA who is going to speak out.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

And so that's why the way that.

[Unknown]

We fight this lawsuit and how we're.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Approaching it, it is to defend Greenpeace.

[Unknown]

But it's also to defend all of.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Those other organizations and activists that wouldn't have the resources to fight back against a lawsuit of this magnitude.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah. And I guess what I don't understand is what kind of harm are they claiming here? Because they won the right to build their pipeline. So I don't understand how there's even like jurisdiction or. I mean, you said that they, the federal case stopped, they filed a state case. Right. Do the Dakotas have at all any anti slap. You know, the. Because like we have out here in California or Washington state.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

So 33 states have anti slap legislation. North Dakota does not. And I will just say in our other slap case that I referenced earlier, we recovered what is thought to be the biggest award ever under California's anti s slap law. So they are a deterrent and they are important because what they do there's not when you look at who is behind these kinds of lawsuits, these are corporations that have infinite resources. And so filing this kind of litigation is kind of a drop in the bucket for them compared to what buying silence of powerful voices could be.

[Unknown]

And so what these anti slap laws do is they provide a deterrent.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

They provide a mechanism to get the case thrown out earlier if it's found to be an attack on First Amendment protected speech. And there's also a cost shifting, which.

[Unknown]

It forces the party bringing the lawsuit.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

To pay the defendant cost. Right.

[Unknown]

So when you don't have those laws.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

In place, there are no deterrents like that. And so we're in a jurisdiction that doesn't have that kind of law. So this is, you know, thought to be, you know, the biggest lawsuit ever in North Dakota. And there's basically three sets of. Of claims. You know, it's kind of three, three cases in one.

[Unknown]

The first set of claims have to do with defamation.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

So Energy Transfer alleges that we made false statements that caused them millions of dollars in harm. And the interesting thing about these statements.

[Unknown]

Were these were not statements that Greenpeace invented.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

You know, these had to do with the route of the pipeline, the impact.

[Unknown]

Of the pipeline on the cultural resource.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Of the Stan Irox tribe, and violence at the protests. And by the time Greenpeace made any statements, you know, to really uplift the.

[Unknown]

Voices on the ground, to uplift indigenous.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Voices, these were widely circulated and accepted in the public. So to go after Greenpeace, you know, after this had just been widely circulated in the public was. Is a bit odd. So that's defamation. The second bucket of claims have to do with what's called tortious interference. So this has to do with.

[Unknown]

With pressure that Greenpeace and other groups.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Put on banks on the financing of the project. And many banks have sustainability initiatives, right, where if they're going to finance a.

[Unknown]

Project, they have adopted principles like free.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Priority, informed consent and other sustainable principles.

[Unknown]

That they have agreed to adhere to.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

If they're going to finance a project.

[Unknown]

So Greenpeace, along with hundreds and hundreds.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Of different organizations, was involved with drawing attention to some of the things that were happening around DAPL to these banks. And so they're saying, you know, Greenpeace lied to these banks, the banks made these decisions based on these lies, and we cost them hundreds of millions of dollars in damages. So that's the second set of claims. And the third bucket has to do.

[Unknown]

With on the ground claims like trespass. And, and this is where it's very.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Clear, clear that this lawsuit is not just an attack on Greenpeace, it's an.

[Unknown]

It's an attack on our ability to.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Engage in peaceful protest.

[Unknown]

And so basically what they're trying to.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Allege in a nutshell, is that if.

[Unknown]

You have any involvement in a protest, you can be held accountable for whatever happens there. So in other words, if you're engaged.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

In training on de escalation, on non.

[Unknown]

Violence, you can be held accountable for.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

The actions of anybody involved in the protests. Unknown protesters who engage in things like the use of Molotov cocktails or the burning of construction equipment. This is kind of this idea of collective protest liability and that is quite concerning.

[Unknown]

And you can imagine the chilling effect.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

This would have if this kind of precedent is established. And so that's the one that really is a serious threat to all movements and all people who are, you know, interested or who might avail themselves to our first amendment rights to peaceful assembly.

[Allison Gill]

Right. And that's the state RICO law. Right. That that's, they're trying to treat you like the mafia and saying that you are responsible for every other person at that protest and what they do because you're in a conspiracy together.

[Unknown]

Yeah. So it's no longer rico, but it's essential. Yes.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

It's still, you know, at its court, it's civil conspiracy.

[Allison Gill]

Oh, okay, gotcha.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

So yes, it's this idea that there is this massive conspiracy.

[Allison Gill]

Well, that's been a thing forever.

[Dana Goldberg]

Right.

[Allison Gill]

Like the Vietnam protests, they would send in agitators to make it look like the peaceful protesters were not peaceful. We saw it all over with the George Floyd protests, you know, where you've got 3 percenters and boogaloo boys coming in and breaking windows and looting stores and everyone pointing their fingers and going, look at the peaceful protesters. So they've long talked about, with the Gaza protests, they long talk about agitators and outside agitants and now they're trying to set a precedent where you, if you wrote a peaceful protest are responsible for perhaps somebody outside or some, anybody at the protest doing anything else. So like if we were, if I was at Charlottesville protesting to take down the Confederate statute, I could be considered liable for Heather Heyer's death. Like that's the kind of stuff they're talking about. It's frightening.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

And you know, we are seeing these attacks in indigenous, you know, in many movements. But you know, you mentioned Gaza. In addition to that, indigenous and black led movements, and it's also this collection of movements that are the primary targets.

[Unknown]

In a lot of the new anti.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Protest legislation that seeks to enhance the criminal penalties for basic protest activity. So it's no coincidence that we're seeing this in legislation, we're seeing this in lawsuits. This is an escalated and very intentional attack on these movements.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah, yeah, I want to talk about the defense and some things like that, including what we can expect over the next at least two years until we have our next midterm election with regard to this kind of legislation. I mean, they try to do it these insidious ways, like through these slap lawsuits. But they want to just codify it and make it so that they can do this legally to chill our First Amendment right to free speech. And as we know, this particular Supreme Court isn't real big on stare decisis and they kind of tailor their textualism to meet their personal goals for our politics. But I want to talk to you about that. And I want to talk to you about the defense. But we have to take a quick break, so everybody stick around. We'll be right back after these messages. We'll be right back.

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[Allison Gill]

Talking with a senior legal advisor for Greenpeace usa. Deepa, I wanted to ask you about because you brought up the three buckets of charges and I wanted to ask you about your kind of overall broadview defense against these charges yeah.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

So did the defense. And what winning looks like is a very interesting question, and it's one that I want to take back to this idea that this is just not an attack on Greenpeace, it's an attack on the movement and how that impacts our strategy. So we, of course, have a very, you know, what we believe is a very strong legal defense that's going to be in the courtroom. We have a five week trial beginning on February 24, 2025, in Morton County, North Dakota, and we will be defending.

[Unknown]

The case on the merits.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

We believe that the law is on our side and we are going to defend it. We also, as you brought up, a lot of the challenges that we're living with.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

As different movements.

[Unknown]

And so one of the things we.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Have been thinking about and developing at.

[Unknown]

Greenpeace is that there is, of course, winning inside of the courtroom, but winning.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Has to be much bigger than that.

[Unknown]

We need to think about how do.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

We make these lawsuits a losing tactic? Because we know that, as I mentioned earlier, that other individuals and other groups.

[Unknown]

Would not be able to fight a.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Lawsuit like this for eight years.

[Unknown]

And so one of the things that we are trying to do is make, through the defense of this lawsuit is win outside of the courtroom. Right? Win as a movement to make slaps a losing tactic. One of the things that's quite clear is that a lot these lawsuits, particularly this lawsuit that Greenpeace is dealing with.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

It'S meant to divide, right? It's meant to create friction between indigenous allies, indigenous groups, sovereign nations, and big greens.

[Unknown]

And so one of the things that.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

We'Re trying to do is show that.

[Unknown]

While these lawsuits, this attempt to divide is actually only making us stronger. And so visibility in how this lawsuit.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Has made Greenpeace and the movement stronger is very critical because we know through.

[Unknown]

Our experience that the corporations that are bringing these lawsuits want these lawsuits to be fought behind closed doors, for these fights to be invisible. So the more visibility we can bring.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

That is a way to show that even if you win in the courtroom, it's not worth it to bring it.

[Unknown]

Because you are actually making these groups stronger. You are.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

There was a recent write up in.

[Unknown]

The Wall Street Journal about our lawsuit.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

And there was a comment that some.

[Unknown]

Investors are concerned about a, quote, reinvigorated protest movement, that this lawsuit could reinvigorate the protest movement. So that is exactly what we need to do. We need to not be silent. We need to show that this lawsuit.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

And lawsuits like these are going to make us stronger. And so we are absolutely focused on the legal defense, but opportunities like this.

[Unknown]

You know, raising awareness and visibility about.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

What this fight is so critical. And so, you know, we have a.

[Unknown]

Website called greenpeaceontrial.org we have an open letter to the corporation that we have hundreds of thousands of people signed onto. We want to show energy transfer and.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Other corporations considering this tactic that you're.

[Unknown]

Not just fighting us. And no matter what happens on the.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Other side of this, there will be resistance and unity from groups across issue areas.

[Allison Gill]

Matt, I think that's such an important point, is the secondary purpose of the defense. Right. It's not just to win the lawsuit. It's to get a movement going and strengthen it so that organizations like Greenpeace USA can chill the big corporations from bringing these lawsuits. I think that's so important. But also, I mean, in the notes here from your writing, you talk about this case aiming to undermine indigenous sovereignty at Standing Rock.

[Dana Goldberg]

Talk a little bit about that, because.

[Allison Gill]

I mean, it goes beyond just, you know, this ridiculous lawsuit, and they're trying to drain all your coffers and chill people from participating in their First Amendment rights of protest. But, I mean, it's racist on its face.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Correct? And even, you know, I think one.

[Unknown]

Of the things that's important to always.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Remember also is the history of this pipeline. This one of the things that is often not talked about. And I Forget we're in 2020, almost 2025. A lot of people don't remember the.

[Unknown]

Details, but this was a pipeline that.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Was originally routed to go north of Bismarck, the capital of North Dakota. And due to concerns about the potential.

[Unknown]

Impact of the pipeline on the drinking water of Bismarck residents, the pipeline was rerouted and the water crossing of this crude oil pipeline was moved to just upstream of the Stanny Rock Sioux tribe's reservation. So even before we talk about this.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Lawsuit, it's important to remember that, you.

[Unknown]

Know, the voices of the residents of.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Bismarck, you know, those were listened to.

[Unknown]

But not the voices of the Standing Rock Sioux tribe and other tribes like.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

The Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe that had concerns about the impact of this pipeline on their drinking water.

[Allison Gill]

Right. Like it's bad for Bismarck, but it's okay for us.

[Unknown]

Right?

[Allison Gill]

Right at the heart, at the center of this.

[Unknown]

And then you get into the lawsuit.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

This idea that Greenpeace entities orchestrated it, that we manipulated others, that it was our, you know, that. That it was our manipulation of indigenous.

[Unknown]

Peoples that caused this resistance.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

I mean, it's hard to even.

[Unknown]

What do you say to that? Right?

[Deepa Padmanabha]

I mean, everybody knows that this isn't.

[Unknown]

True, but just this narrative that is being perpetuated is an absolute attack on.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Indigenous sovereignty and indigenous leadership. And then even within the lawsuit, some.

[Unknown]

Of the challenge statements, these are statements that were made by the Standing Rock Sioux tribe that we were repeating.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

And those are alleged to be defamatory. So the levels of the attack, starting with what this entire resistance was even about, down to the nitty gritty attacks on indigenous sovereignty, are just layered and multifaceted and pervasive throughout this fight. The other thing that I just want to note, the Standing Rock, I'm sorry.

[Unknown]

Dapl, the Daple fight is not over.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

This is a very interesting situation where.

[Unknown]

You have a pipeline that is operating, but the final easement. The Army Corps of Engineer is still.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Yet to issue a final determination. So the grassroots fight over DAPL is not over. And we are expecting the Army Corps of Engineer to make its final decision.

[Unknown]

On this piece, you know, the piece of the pipeline that runs under Lake.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Oahe later in 2025.

[Allison Gill]

Wow. And let's talk a little bit about the impacts of a bad ruling. We talk, we touched on it a little bit earlier because, you know, we talked about how if you go to a peaceful protest, you can now, you know, somehow be held responsible for what everyone other person does at that, at that protest. Civil conspiracy is what I believe you called it. But you know, going forward, you know, we're talking about a lot of media, you know, in the upcoming administration, we're talking about a lot of media organizations, more left leaning organizations and nonprofits being sued or investigated criminally or through the irs. And you know, again, it's, it's not so much about, you know, we had these discussions about preemptive pardons and people are like, well, you shouldn't take a preemptive pardon if you didn't do anything wrong. But it's not about the end result. It's about the time and the mental, you know, health of the person who has to go through these six, seven year long things and about draining them, draining their bank account and chilling other people, chilling other members in the media or chilling other organizations. So I kind of see a sort of a similarity there between that headspace of where this administration seems like it wants to go and what you all have been facing for the last eight years.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Yeah, and that's why the movement strategy is so critical. Our strategies, our being, our, you know.

[Unknown]

As, as, as broader movements, our strategies for winning need to evolve and they.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Have to encompass tactics that are both inside and outside of the system. Right. And so that's why it's so critical that we not have approach all of these issues with you know, from like a whack, a mole, right. We, one after another, we have to collectively figure out how to come together and show and make these tactics toxic.

[Unknown]

For the other side.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

You know, so another corporations that looking at it, say, we might be able.

[Unknown]

To win this in the courtroom, but we don't want to go through what.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

The company went through. We don't want to embolden these organizations. We don't want to make them more united when they were.

[Allison Gill]

Draw attention to how terrible we are.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Right, exactly. And you know, what we have on.

[Unknown]

Our side is that these are meritless suits. And so when you draw attention to.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Them, you know, like you are on.

[Unknown]

Your show today, you see how ridiculous these claims are.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

And so it is a complicated situation.

[Unknown]

Because the attacks are coming from all.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Branches of government and it's overwhelming. And so this is a moment where.

[Unknown]

We have to take some time to. We don't have time.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

But we also have to reflect and.

[Unknown]

Evolve our strategy so that we're not.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Just reactionary and chasing over each new issue every day.

[Unknown]

At the root of all of this.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Are the same actors and the same.

[Unknown]

Industries that are attacking us. And so how do we come together?

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Because we outnumber them.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

We have people power, and they might have the dollars, but we have people. And there are ways and strategies for us to win more holistically, I believe.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah, no, I would agree with you. But one more thing. First of all, we've got to get some people up in that courtroom to report on this. I think, I think that that would be really important to sort of bring it to the forefront and give it the publicity that it deserves. But there's other things people listening can do. Can you tell them how they can help?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

So, you know, as I've mentioned, visibility is a really critical part of slap suit. So I mean, it can start off with something just now, you know, that you know about this, telling your networks, right.

[Unknown]

Informing, setting up groups. We have, we have a website dedicated to this lawsuit. It's called greenpeace on trial.org and you.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Know, on a show like this, this is, this fight. These fights have been going on for over eight years. So to learn more information, some of.

[Unknown]

The details about the fights and just to get updates on what we're doing.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

You can sign up there.

[Unknown]

But we certainly encourage you just to.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Really, if you know, make sure people.

[Unknown]

Are aware this is going to trial, this is going to be a five week trial. So raising awareness about this lawsuit is really critical. And getting updates from Greenpeace about how you can stay connected to the work we're doing.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Signing our open letter to energy transfer is another really critical thing.

[Unknown]

Showing that we will not be silenced.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Is our ultimate message.

[Unknown]

And it's also taking action in your communities, you know, to show that while.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

We are being bombarded by all these attempts to silence who we are, we.

[Unknown]

Are going to continue to take action.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

And continue, even on the local level, to stand up for our communities. It's another very important thing.

[Allison Gill]

Well, I appreciate you coming on today and talking about this and hopefully we can get a bunch of people to the website, sign the open letter and again, speak to your networks and your people and your friends about, about what's going on because this, again, a bad result from this suit could be very bad potentially for all our abilities to use our voice to speak truth to power. So I thank you for coming on. I thank you for the work that you're doing. And we'll check back in. We should do an update as the trial gets closer.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Yeah, I would love that. Thank you so much for having me.

[Allison Gill]

No problem. Senior legal advisor for Greenpeace usa. Thank you so much. Deepa Padmanabha, it's been wonderful talking to you.

[Deepa Padmanabha]

Thank you so much, everybody.

[Allison Gill]

We'll be back in your ears tomorrow. Thank you so much for listening. And until then, please take care of yourselves, take care of each other, take care of the planet, take care of your mental health and take care of your family. I've been AG and them's the beans.

[Unknown]

The Daily Beans is written and executive produced by Allison Gill with additional research and reporting by Dana Goldberg. Sound design and editing is by Desiree McFarlane with art and web design by Joelle Reader with Moxie Design Studios. Music for the Daily Beans is written in performance performed by they Might Be Giants and the show is a proud member of the MSW Media Network, a collection of creator owned podcasts dedicated to news, politics and justice. For more information please Visit mswmedia.com.msw media.