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- [00:00]
A
This is not trivial. That the President of the United States, at The age of 80, overweight, doesn't do a lick of exercise. I think that there is a very decent likelihood that he will not survive. The man is a mess. The man is a wreck. The presidency is a high pressure job. The loneliness must set in probably exactly at the point that Trump is now he's facing the midterms. They're gonna be a catastrophe for Trump. You think he's gonna live? I think that there's a very good chance that it just ends all of a sudden like that. No warning, no preparation. He falls.
- [00:47]
B
Michael.
- [00:49]
A
Joanna. Here we are again.
- [00:50]
B
I'm so happy to be back.
- [00:52]
A
We're happy to have you.
- [00:54]
B
Good. Well, it's very nice to be back. And again, just thank you to everybody who sent me the most interesting and nicest notes of condolence. Really appreciated. And just, again, just staggering what people go through on a daily basis.
- [01:11]
A
No. And again, to remember, you know, and I think it is worth coming back to again and again and again is that this is something everybody faces, has faced or will face. This is the common experience. Forget Trump. This is the common experience.
- [01:31]
B
Yeah. Well, I want to figure out a way of coming back to it at some point. But for now, Donald Trump. But for now.
- [01:38]
A
But actually on, to continue, a theme here, Donald Trump, who's showing up today at Walter Reed Hospital.
- [01:46]
B
Right. The third time in how many months? Thirteen months, I think. I think soon to be 80. June 13th.
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A
14th.
- [01:55]
B
June 14th. Yes. Sorry, Flag Day. Did I say 13th? I knew it was the 14th.
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A
Flag Day.
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B
Flag Day. Flag Day.
- [02:01]
A
Do you know what Flag Day is? Our Flag Day?
- [02:04]
B
No, embarrassingly, I don't, actually. Is it. I don't know what that.
- [02:09]
A
I think nobody actually knows that there is a Flag Day, that this will be Flag Day or what Flag Day stands for. Only people of a certain age. Anyway, it's your. Well, what I think of in the UK is your Poppy's Day, when everyone wears a red poppy for the fallen in the First World War. This is our First World War.
- [02:38]
B
So are we all supposed to wear flags, though?
- [02:42]
A
No, we don't wear anything because no one even knows that the holiday has occurred. I mean, this. I mean, whenever I'm in the UK in the fall, and yours is in
- [02:51]
B
the fall, November 11th.
- [02:54]
A
I'm always struck by the fact that everybody wears a poppy. It doesn't matter. It's one of those few symbols without any kind of political reference.
- [03:05]
B
Right, right. And it's a beautiful symbol. It's a two Petaled poppy with a black center. And they're sold to raise money for soldiers, former soldiers. And it's a very moving. It's a very moving thing. And they always have this ceremony at the Cenotaph in the center of London, just next to Parliament Square. And I remember one year, Michael Foot, who was the leader of the Labour Party, turning up for it. And it's a very formal, very moving ceremony. And people used to watch it on television live when it was happening. It was one of those events that pulled the nation together. And Michael Foot, the leader of the Labour Party, turned up in an anorak, and people were livid and somewhat like the Howard Dean scream that could have lost him the election. Michael Foot wearing an anorak sort of lost him. Well, lost labour the election for the next three reelections, I think.
- [04:00]
A
And there's actually an important point here, because the poppy depends on a buttonhole, and an anorak doesn't have a buttonhole. You need an overcoat. You need a buttonhole.
- [04:18]
B
Well, to be fair, you can have it pinned on you. But anyway, the point is.
- [04:22]
A
But on an anorak. Yes.
- [04:24]
B
Yeah, on an anorak. It was just terrible how politics has changed when those were the days.
- [04:29]
A
But anyway, our flag day, which nobody knows, but maybe it will now be known as Donald Trump's birthday, so Birthday day.
- [04:39]
B
So I'm amazed he hasn't made it a public holiday. Or has he made it a public holiday? I know we've got a UFC fight on the White House lawn, which I'm very much looking forward to. Though, sadly, we won't be there in person, because I think that although you might be Kasari Emanuel, who is your agent, correct?
- [04:56]
A
No, no, he just says he's my agent. He's not my agent.
- [04:59]
B
Oh, okay. Cause he has 200 tickets to give away. Ari Emanuel, who, let's just remind people at the Aspen Ideas Festival, said that we were in Fucktown if Donald Trump got reelected.
- [05:11]
A
Fuck City.
- [05:12]
B
Fuck City. Okay. I like Fucktown better. Cause town is smaller than city. Anyway, that's what he said.
- [05:18]
A
It was fucktown. We should look that up as it was good.
- [05:21]
B
I think it might have been fuck city, but the point is he's got 200 tickets to give away to the White House.
- [05:27]
A
Ari Emanuel just is the most powerful agent in Hollywood. And he also controls the what? The ufc. I mean, he has two World Wrestling and the ufc.
- [05:45]
B
Right. And he's brother of Rahm Emanuel, former chief of staff to Obama, who's now
- [05:51]
A
running himself and it's an interesting thing that he is that he controls these two organizations which are central to Donald Trump and Ari Emanuel. And the Emanuel brothers and the Emanuel family are very much anti Trump, although Ari Emanuel was also Trump' swas Trump's agent on the Apprentice. So he's responsible for actually where we are right now.
- [06:21]
B
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- [07:44]
A
We're really going this way and that way today.
- [07:47]
B
No, not. There's a point. What I'm going to say the point is death.
- [07:52]
A
Actually. This is what unites this whole conversation. He is showing up today at Walter Reed Hospital, correct. Soon to be 80. Within days, he will be the oldest president ever. The oldest president elected. The oldest president, yes. And so this is not trivial, that the President of the United States at the age of 80, overweight, over obese. I think obese, yes. Doesn't do a lick of exercise, eats well. It's the well known, worst diet on the planet. And everything depends on him.
- [08:38]
B
Well, so I have a question for you because we had gone to look at the betting markets to see whether or not they thought Donald Trump would manage to survive his entire presidency. In fact, the betting markets won't allow you to bet on whether or not someone's going to die. That's their bottom line. We don't have that bottom line. Do you think he's going to survive the presidency. He's 80 now, he's the oldest president. He's going back to Walter Reed for, I think, his third trip in just over a year. He keeps bragging that he's passing all these tests that they're giving him, which isn't a usual thing. They don't normally repeatedly give you these tests, in particular the Montreal Cognitive Test, unless they are monitoring you.
- [09:26]
A
I think that there is a very decent likelihood, a greater likelihood than we have had in any presidency. We could debate the Biden presidency, but in any other presidency in modern memory, Eisenhower, we can debate that, that he will not survive. I mean, he has two and a half years to go. Look at the guy. I have obviously no medical information to go on this other than what stares us in the face, stares us pretty damn vividly in the face. I mean, the man is a mess. The man is a wreck. And I don't think it's getting any easier for him in this job. The job itself, you know, the presidency is a. Oh, man, it's a high pressure job. I mean, we see the way people go into the presidency and exit the presidency and it's a kind of a sight gag. They're vibrant in the beginning. They're right. Obama famously went gray exhausted in the end. And they look at now Trump actually in the first term, went in looking like Trump and came out looking like Trump, the same guy. Now that also could be because of the makeup and the hair and the tanning, but I think that there is a difference. Now I think this term, the second term, which is also four years after, remember, these were not sequential terms, right.
- [11:10]
B
He had a four year gap.
- [11:11]
A
He's now, you know, relatively speaking, significantly older in this term. And he looks terrible. I mean, he looks day by day, you can see this. I mean, he looks exhausted and then plus he, you know, he falls asleep.
- [11:26]
B
He falls asleep in cabinet meetings, is
- [11:27]
A
paranoid, is angry, is things are not going well for him. And what effect does that have on the overweight man who doesn't exercise and doesn't eat well, but he doesn't smoke
- [11:44]
B
and he doesn't drink. So two things which really can hasten illness. And I think one always underestimates the enjoyment that presidents have with power. I think it feeds them something which is, which overcomes a lot of physical.
- [12:04]
A
I mean, I would agree with that, except not in the second term. I think the second term for every president are, to say the least, a downer. So everything that you. First thing, you have nothing to work toward. You're not running again. You see your end and that must be frightening. And also everyone is taking things from you. The loneliness must. The loneliness must set in probably exactly at the point that Trump is. Now he's facing the midterms. They're gonna be a catastrophe for Trump.
- [12:44]
B
But you're assuming that he has an interior life, which I'm not sure he does.
- [12:49]
A
No, no, I think I'm talking now about the physical life, what happens to the physical body, what happens to this? And he does know, and I mean, we do know that he is now responding. We see him responding to all of the things that are going wrong. Often he's doubling down on the things that are going wrong. But in Iran, which we will certainly get to, he clearly recognizes this is a catastrophe and it's gonna be a catastrophe that is around his neck.
- [13:24]
B
But I think he may recognize it's a catastrophe, but what he's doing is just looking to the next thing. So we can come to Cuba in a moment. But, but actually that force of personality that he has malignant narcissism or whatever it is, I think manages to sort of propel him despite the chronic Venus insufficiency. Despite, you know, despite.
- [13:50]
A
Well, we can. We're gonna track this. You think he's gonna live? I think that there's a very good chance that it just ends all of a sudden like that. No warning, no preparation. He falls.
- [14:05]
B
Well, I can. There is a sort of scenario where you can.
- [14:10]
A
Is there any way that we can. So the prediction markets, we can't make money on this any other way.
- [14:14]
B
But we should ask viewers and listeners, what do you think? Do you think he's going to survive the presidency? I think he's got enough force of evil personality that he will do and that he can triumph over the things that he's got, which a lot of 80 year olds have.
- [14:32]
A
And I think he has enough of a sense of the dramatic that he knows that he has to go out like this. This is it. This would give him his place in history.
- [14:44]
B
Well, and it would avoid him being.
- [14:46]
A
Yes.
- [14:46]
B
All of the legal issues. All the legal issues which we can come to in a minute. The one thing I can see, however, is a cabinet meeting which is being filmed where he just starts leaning to the side and then someone realizes what happened.
- [15:01]
A
He's dead.
- [15:02]
B
Well, he might be having a stress or he might be having some issue which leads to.
- [15:09]
A
Right. And then there's this other question of he's not dead, but he's in a semi dead state. I mean, that would be the Biden situation. Of course, I don't think that was
- [15:18]
B
officially the Biden situation.
- [15:21]
A
It may not have been officially, but it was apparently.
- [15:24]
B
Okay, well, in which case, J.D. vance takes over.
- [15:31]
A
Well, that's another. We'll come to that in another show.
- [15:34]
B
Okay. All right, well, we want to know what you think. So tell us, do you think Trump survives the presidency or does he keel over in office? And just.
- [15:45]
A
This is an important question. I mean, this may be the more important question than any other question.
- [15:50]
B
Totally, totally.
- [15:51]
A
The test of the next two and a half years.
- [15:54]
B
Yeah. Okay, so we have here the MOCA test that he's obviously going to be taking again. We have taken this once before on the podcast. I'm going to test you again. All right.
- [16:06]
A
And we don't do so well on this test.
- [16:08]
B
Well, it's quite difficult, especially the one where you have to take 7 from some. You have to keep subtracting 7 going from 100, which is really hard. That is hard. Okay, we've got three.
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A
Well, that would be too embarrassing to
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B
do, but let's name these animals. Right? What are these animals?
- [16:29]
A
You want. You're testing me?
- [16:31]
B
Yes. Can we see these? I'm just checking. We can see them.
- [16:34]
A
Okay, we can do this. Horse. Tiger. Duck.
- [16:37]
B
Right. Now, this is a test that Donald Trump has repeatedly said is quite hard, and they show you animals and you have to identify them. All right.
- [16:43]
A
It's the word order. We can do this from the last. Let's. What do we remember? White pants.
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B
No pants.
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A
No pants.
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B
No pants.
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A
Shirt.
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B
No. No shirt. But your shoes. No. All right, so I'm white, though. You got white. So we're going to. I'm going to give you the words, and then we're going to come back at the end of the episode and see if you can remember them. Still. Still. And this is a good test for everybody out there. See if you can do this. Leg, cotton, school, tomato. Or as you would say, tomato or white. Leg, cotton, school, tomato.
- [17:25]
A
Leg, cotton, school, tomato. White.
- [17:29]
B
Yeah. These are the words that will be no pants. That Donald Trump will be tested on, and he will undoubtedly pass better than anybody else has ever done any other president. He's. He will have done it better. Okay, so moving swiftly on, we're bombing again. I thought we were in a ceasefire.
- [17:48]
A
We were in a cease. No. What do you mean? We were in a peace deal. It was done as of yesterday.
- [17:58]
B
Trump was telling people yesterday that it
- [18:00]
A
was basically done, done and a deal that he is desperate for a deal that he is basically willing to give anything for a deal that is worse
- [18:11]
B
than the Obama deal.
- [18:12]
A
So everything that happens now is he sets up a deal, the deal is going to be done because he's willing to give basically everything that the Iranians want.
- [18:24]
B
Although aren't they also willing to give America the uranium, the enriched Iranian?
- [18:29]
A
No, I thought they were. No, I mean, this is the issue. He's announcing that they will, and then they pull it back. So functionally, what happens is he reaches. He believes he reaches, has reached a deal, and then the Iranians want more or want to give less.
- [18:51]
B
Right.
- [18:52]
A
So they seem to be the ones who are extending this deal. So in theory, what we have is they have to make, I mean, in Donald Trump's head, they have to make a deal because he's crushed them. But the reality is we have to make a deal because they have, if not crushed us, so frustrated Donald Trump and so put him into an untenable political position. So they keep pulling back. And what the deal looks like it will be is Iran before the war will be functionally the same Iran as after the war, except with the much improved position that many of the economic sanctions that they went into the war with will be removed. You can turn this around and kind of say what this war is, is that the Iranians went to war with the United States because of these sanctions. It was a war against these sanctions, and they won.
- [20:02]
B
But last night we then started bombing them again.
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A
Yes.
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B
Which apparently was a defensive on our behalf.
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A
Yeah, well, I think he doesn't know what to do. I mean, so he's at this moment, he cannot go back to war again. So. But here he has this agreement which is going to be incredibly embarrassing to him. So I think that this is like, we better just drop a few more bombs, and at least that will be the COVID for something. I mean, I cannot see him going back to war again. If he goes back to war again. I mean, what are we at now in the polls? He's 37%. He'll go into the 20s.
- [20:54]
B
Okay, but what does he do? Because, I mean, there's 1500 boats bobbing around in the Strait of Hormuz that can't deliver much needed fuel around the world.
- [21:08]
A
He has got to do this. He is in. It's not the Iranians whose backs are to the wall, it's Donald Trump's whose back is to the wall.
- [21:21]
B
Okay, so he's going to create diversion again then. Right. It's been 12 weeks. It was supposed to be over immediately. So three months he has to create another diversion. I feel like it's going to be Cuba.
- [21:34]
A
Yeah, no, no, in Cuba is not just the diversion, but it's like it's the do over. So in other words, just think of this in reality television terms. This plot hasn't worked. This season was a bad season.
- [21:48]
B
Right. This was the equivalent of Martha's story being the Apprentice.
- [21:53]
A
Totally. Totally. So we got to do something. So what will work? Cuba. It's perfect. It will be easy. I mean, he can play by the same playbook and remember, that's what he's doing here. And that's what Iran was supposed to be. It was supposed to be the Venezuela playbook and that really didn't work. So now he's going to do the Cuba, the Venezuela do over in or the Venezuela repeat in Cuba. We've already indicted Raul Castro as we indicted Maduro. They will go in, we'll take him out.
- [22:34]
B
We'll take out the Cuban leadership. Cuz he's no longer president.
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A
It doesn't make any difference. We're gonna take. Actually what we will do in Trumpian fashion is take him out, leave the leadership in place and they'll agree to be make n and then nothing will change. So that's also sort of a fundamental part of the Trump model. Nothing changes and ultimately we take no responsibility for what comes after that. This is just a, this is just the plot device.
- [23:10]
B
So it's a plot device. So it's regime change in Cuba is the no opportunity. I'm concerned that, you know, the Castro brothers are not going to be replaced by the Trump brothers coming for some grift. What is the opportunity?
- [23:24]
A
No, no, I think they will. And no, we're gonna make Havana great again. It's gonna be a great, great casino capital. It's gonna be a tourist destination. It's gonna be the new Trump Riviera. And we can go back to a Godfather movie. Remember the Godfather movie in which Meyer Lansky is running the gambling in Havana? Well, that will now be Don Jr.
- [23:50]
B
That'll be Don Jr. So basically what we're looking for, Meyer
- [23:52]
A
Lansky was somewhat more competent than Don Jr.
- [23:59]
B
Although Don Jr. Just got married at the weekend, didn't he? And his father didn't show up.
- [24:05]
A
You see, and if he had only waited, he could have waited a little while longer. He could have gotten married in Cuba instead of the Bahamas.
- [24:12]
B
Yeah, well, they could have a second marriage in Cuba. But what we're really looking at actually is a global network of Trump casinos. Right. Because they're trying to do it in Gaza. Jared's been trying to build a hotel in Albania. Now we've got Cuba, perhaps Iran. I'm not sure that I know that gambling and Islam don't.
- [24:30]
A
Yeah, in Gaza. We're doing Gaza. Oh, God, yes.
- [24:34]
B
Gaza. Riviera. So now we've got the Cuban. I mean, Cuba is.
- [24:38]
A
Just reflect on how successful Donald Trump has previously been in the casino business.
- [24:43]
B
Of course. Atlantic City, thinking of it. Exactly. So it'll be a chain of bankrupt casinos across the world. That will be Donald Trump's legacy as American president.
- [24:57]
A
Well, yes, the legacy actually will be the billions and billions of dollars that the Trump family will have taken out of the worldwide economy for themselves.
- [25:12]
B
Okay, so when do you think Cuba happens? And is this the end? Is this the end of Marco Rubio, Cuba? It's quite, quite difficult to say that, even on two cups of tea this morning. Is this because one feels, obviously this is personal for Marco Rubio. His parents are Cuban immigrants. He's always gone on about this, and obviously he lives in Florida. Do we think this is the end of him? That this will inevitably end up going wrong, too?
- [25:45]
A
Well, this will certainly inevitably end up going wrong. I mean, I think the question is, it's not really, is this the end of Marco Rubio? Is this the move that puts him above JD Vance at this point in the succession.
- [26:06]
B
Right.
- [26:06]
A
Algorithm.
- [26:08]
B
Okay. Which comes back to your point. If Trump does keel over in office, one of. Well, it'll be J.D. van.
- [26:13]
A
That. That would be. Yes, but in terms of. In terms of moving toward 20, 28.
- [26:19]
B
Right.
- [26:19]
A
I mean, I think we're gonna. We're gonna see a lot of shifts here, and it's very likely that we'll see a shift to Marco Rubio and then a shift back.
- [26:30]
B
Shift back to what?
- [26:31]
A
To Vance. I mean, this is all. Everybody is going to be shuffled in this, in Trump's mind and in the scenario of who replaces him, because no one will replace him.
- [26:44]
B
No one can replace him. By the way, I made an error last week, which I want to correct. Several people pointed it out. I elevated Kimberly Guilfoyle, who is now our ambassador in Greece, busy stamping American tourist passports when you walk in to Athens. I elevated her to having been educated at Stanford because she used to work with a friend of mine who did study law at Stanford. Anyway, in fact, she went to the University of California, Davis, and then she went to USF School of Law. I just wanted to correct that because nothing more irritating when, when people do that. And we got lots of comments And I meant to say it at the beginning and I forgot because I'm still a bit discombobulated, but can we talk about your lawsuit again? Of course, we talked about it a little bit on Saturday. This is the Trump judge which basically kicked the case out of federal court.
- [27:38]
A
So. Yes. So just to bring up to date, on Friday, the Friday before the Memorial
- [27:44]
B
Day weekend, which literally is the day that all PRs hope to drop their worst story of the year because no one is paying attention. However, we were paying attention.
- [27:55]
A
Well, I, of course, was paying attention to this and a lot of people were paying attention to this. I mean, this is not an insignificant lawsuit. It's not an insignificant fact in the life of the First Family.
- [28:09]
B
Right. And all the people that have supported you on GoFundMe, of course, but it's
- [28:13]
A
Jeffrey Epstein and it's Melania Trump. These are incredibly volatile issues. In Trump world. In Trump world. So what happened is on Friday night, the judge announced a incredibly tortured opinion, which basically, I think the purpose was to get it off of her desk. And that's an interesting thing. And this is the entire context of this now is we drew. We were unlucky enough to draw a Trump judge. I mean, these are random assignments. We got a Trump judge, one of the few Trump judges in the Southern District, in New York in federal court.
- [29:00]
B
So Trump appointed judge during Trump 1. Yes, she's 68, which is significant.
- [29:07]
A
Yes, she's a district judge. And it goes to what Donald Trump has done to the American judicial system. I mean, essentially all Trump judges report to him. All Trump judges are beholden to him. And in the case in which so much litigation is now directed exactly at him, at him, at his administration, there is. You cannot, if you are a federal judge who hope. A Trump appointed federal judge who hopes to advance in his or her career, you cannot decide against this White House.
- [29:51]
B
Well, and the reason I mentioned she was 68 is that time is not on her side at this point.
- [29:56]
A
Exactly, exactly.
- [29:57]
B
Being promoted. So she must have been freaked out by her.
- [30:02]
A
Although these are lifetime appointments on the federal bench. So she can.
- [30:07]
B
Oh, she can say as long as she wants. Yes. Okay. But she must have been so freaked out to get this case. I mean, the idea that it's the first real case against the first lady where she is required to sit for discovery, I mean, who would want that on their desk?
- [30:24]
A
Yeah. No, and that was one of the key issues here and the key issue she ruled on because one of the things that we asked the court to do, the federal Court to do is to determine where Melania Trump lives. Now, I live in New York. And if Melania Trump also lives in New York, can also be deemed a citizen of New York, then the case can't be in federal court. It's in New York State court, of which Donald Trump has significantly less sway over. So Melania Trump's lawyers maintain. Well, they said she lives in Florida, she's recently voted in Florida, and she has a driver's license in. In Florida. And that was their sole evidence, whereas we presented a file of evidence that she spends the overwhelming amount of her time in New York. Her business interests, which are rapidly expanding with the Melania the movie and turning herself into a brand, are primarily, even exclusively in New York. All of her relationships, family relationships and relationships with friends and colleagues are in New York. That you can. And I think we did present a pretty vivid picture of a full life in New York City. But the judge put that aside or ignored that or threw that out because of the key issue for the Trumps, which is that she be found as a. Two issues, that she be found as a resident of Florida and that she avoid discovery. Because that was the second thing that we asked for. If you're not going to find her, deem her a citizen of New York, well, let us have discovery, which is to say we get to ask her questions, request documents that might prove exactly where she lives. But that's the last thing that they wanted to happen because as soon as you open up discovery of the first lady, then you invariably get into issues of the first marriage.
- [32:50]
B
Well, and then you'd be able to. Wouldn't you be able to call the first husband to account?
- [32:56]
A
Well, that would probably be more difficult, but we would have been able to ask for the prenuptial agreement for, for instance. So a whole range of the data that everybody's. Where people live is accumulated by anybody where they live, which can document where they live. But that was something that the judge obviously couldn't allow because then she would. That would basically have wiped out her career. But the other interesting thing is that she then, she then declined to rule on the merits of the case. So she, in fact said, I'm going to abstain from the merits of the case.
- [33:40]
B
And she acknowledged there was a spat at the heart of it. Right. Her words.
- [33:45]
A
Well, you have to acknowledge that in order for it to be in federal court, you have got to say, these are the stakes. This is the dispute. So she got it into federal court basically so that she could please the Trumps and then kick it out of federal court. So it's now a case that has not been decided and is in limbo, which provides us kind of all kinds of holes that we can drive a truck through.
- [34:21]
B
So could she, in theory, have decided, dismissed it, and said, there is nothing to see here? This cannot go ahead? She didn't actually do that.
- [34:32]
A
She could have found. Yes.
- [34:34]
B
Right. So the case continues.
- [34:36]
A
Yes. In either situation, we could obviously appeal and will obviously appeal, but this idea of the abstention also gives us a whole other range of. Of legal strategies to pursue. And so ultimately, what this will come down to is getting before a judge who's not a Trump judge. So. And again, and I can't. I mean, this is the issue. I mean, it's interesting that we are in. We are in this case because of Donald Trump's and his wife's efforts to use the judicial system to strangle the media. But we are now trying to fight this case in a system in which Donald Trump has already strangled and he has essentially made himself the judge of the judges in the system.
- [35:42]
B
So he's the judge's boss. Donald Trump is now basically, if you're a judge, Donald Trump is your boss.
- [35:48]
A
If you're a Trump judge, yes.
- [35:49]
B
If you're a Trump judge, yes. And where does this leave Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche, who is desperately trying to get.
- [35:57]
A
Well, that's just another, Another. Another aspect of this is that he has also become. He's become the Trump, the federal judge Trump, you know, because he's all of his. Trump, all of his justices report, and he's become the prosecutor. So the traditional independence of the Justice Department has been utterly removed.
- [36:26]
B
Right.
- [36:27]
A
And the traditional independent, the traditional. The constitutional independence of the judiciary system itself has been sorely compromised. So in any of this thing, if you are in a dispute with the federal government, a dispute with the federal government, which Donald Trump controls, you're in just an entirely. It's an entirely new world of litigation.
- [37:01]
B
Your old friend Boris Epstein helped create this, didn't he? Yeah. Well, let's go.
- [37:11]
A
Let's go back because I know I have some background on this, because there's a man by the name of Boris Epstein who is. This is. I mean, it's an interesting thing. He was a hanger on in the first 2016 campaign came.
- [37:35]
B
He's a lawyer, right?
- [37:36]
A
He is a lawyer, but his practice of law has been minimal. And in fact, he has basically been a Trump talking head. And that's what he did in the first campaign. And then he got A job in the White House in the first administration that lasted weeks. I mean, deeply unpopular in the Trump circle, but nevertheless, one of those guys who just has hung in there, hung close to Donald Trump.
- [38:21]
B
That is Stephen Miller.
- [38:23]
A
Yes. And during the campaign, this was a kind of running joke that Boris was always on the phone with Trump, that he would call him 10 times a day, 20 times a day. Even Trump would make this joke, and he would hold up his phone when Boris called, and it would say Boris's name for a long time, it was spelled wrong.
- [38:51]
B
How do you spell Boris wrong? Or Epstein was spelled wrong. Okay.
- [38:56]
A
And then Trump would say, oh, it's my Boris. And he's calling to tell me that I've been indicted again, and why. That's good news. So he's always. Boris is the whole thing. Whatever Trump wants to hear, Boris will tell him. And it is this person who. I mean, just a person whose devotion is absolute and who is never off the page. So, I mean, it's really like, I'm just reading one of the biographies of Stalin right now. It's fascinating to see all these guys, Khrushchev, Molotov, Buria, running around Stalin just desperate to stay whatever Stalin wants to hear.
- [39:48]
B
Right. And you never want to be the first person to stop clapping.
- [39:52]
A
And so this is Boris, and Boris is the. From the 2024 campaign when he was running all of the indictments against Trump. So really became one of the pivotal people around Donald Trump.
- [40:14]
B
When you say he was running the indictments, what do you mean? He was sort of planning strategy.
- [40:19]
A
He was planning strategy. He was hiring the people. And back to Todd Blanche. So he hired Todd Blanche, and Todd Blanche became his person. Remember, Boris is not really a law. I mean, yes, he has a law degree, and yes, he practiced for a minimal amount of time, but you certainly would not want Boris in a courtroom. But nevertheless, he is essentially running the entire Trump legal edifice and with Todd Blanche as his agent. So this is. You could say this is a little cabal. Boris and Todd Blanche.
- [41:01]
B
And where does Pam Bondi fit in that? Because she was also defending him during. During the four wilderness years. Right. Then she gets the job of Attorney General, which she was then fired from earlier this year because she messed up the Epstein file release.
- [41:17]
A
Right. And for whatever reason, I mean, she also was also a Boris person. And whether they wanted a woman or whatever, but they wanted Todd Blanche. Todd Blanche has been the person person in the Justice Department effectively doing the legal work.
- [41:38]
B
Right.
- [41:39]
A
And that is so the Boris. This is just another and you can step back and say, this is the way. Boris offered a plan to Donald Trump to take over the Justice Department, which had bedeviled Trump from the beginning of his first term.
- [42:04]
B
Right. And Tom Blanche, who was in Florida last week to indict the Raul Castro.
- [42:10]
A
Right. So this is the Justice Department. How to make the Justice Department an agent of Trump's politics and personal desires.
- [42:24]
B
Right.
- [42:26]
A
This is a key element of the Trump revolution. We will accomplish everything by subverting the Justice Department, by subverting the courts. I mean, these are the people. And there's a thing. They came after me, so I'm going to use the same system to go after them.
- [42:47]
B
Do you think Boris Epstein is aware of the judge and your case?
- [42:53]
A
Explicitly.
- [42:55]
B
Right. So Boris, Michael's got another move, you
- [43:00]
A
know, and I know that. I know that he's aware of this because he. A text about this case when astray. And that is astray. It went to me instead of the person who it was supposed to go to.
- [43:19]
B
Oh, so he did that Freudian thing. He was thinking about you. He sent it to you, but he was meant to someone else.
- [43:24]
A
Yes.
- [43:24]
B
What did it say?
- [43:30]
A
It would be remiss of me, too.
- [43:33]
B
All right, so I want to just remind people of Usha Vance's podcast, which is called Storytime with the Second Lady. We've talked about this before. She dropped another one on Memorial Day, which was. I mean, Nelle Scovell, our contributor and very good comedy writer, immediately alerted me to it. It is. If you are looking for something to just take your mind off, pretty much anything, you must watch this.
- [44:05]
A
First of all, you're gonna give her traffic.
- [44:07]
B
I'm not going to. I very much doubt we're going to give her traffic. The funny thing is when she says, welcome to Storytime with the Second lady, which is also terrible title, because who wants to be with the Second Lady? You really only want to be the First Lady. Second lady sounds awful. She manages to say it as if she is not the Second lady herself. Hello, I'm Usha Vance, and welcome back to another episode of Storytime with the Second Lady. I hope you're as excited as I am to enjoy another book today. I mean, I've never heard anyone sound less excited. Her phrase, her motto, when we read, we grow. She says it as if it's a threat. But guess who the guest is. Guess who the guest is. So if you're ushavants with an incredible legal career, you know, she went to Yale. She went to Yale Law School. She was a Gates Scholar at Cambridge. Incredibly hard to do. She's clearly incredibly smart. They've sequestered her with this podcast, which I'm sure will be dropped the minute she has her next baby, and we'll never hear from it again. But she should have, by rights, the ability to attract someone. Fascinating to read these stories. Now, we saw last time she had Cheryl Hynes. Right. Guess who we had doing this time?
- [45:25]
A
Well, I know the answer to this. So it's a. But nevertheless, tell people that. Nevertheless. Nevertheless. It's extraordinary.
- [45:37]
B
I mean, it's crazy. It's Bristol Palin. Yes, Bristol Palin, the daughter Palin. Remember Sarah Palin.
- [45:44]
A
Remember her?
- [45:46]
B
Bristol Palin's second husband, from whom she is divorced and who asked her for child support as they were actually preparing to get married. They got married, and then they very quickly got children.
- [46:02]
A
What does this guy do?
- [46:04]
B
Well, to be fair, he was. It sounds like he was actually. He's a very decorated soldier. He was decorated by Obama. And as you know, I think this podcast is actually. There are moments of subversion in it. So I think the fact that he was honored with a Bronze Star by Obama is very significant.
- [46:26]
A
But there are a lot of decorated soldiers in the United States.
- [46:30]
B
I think that Usha had someone let her down at the last moment. So even.
- [46:37]
A
So, where is this guy? I mean, just waiting in the wings.
- [46:40]
B
The crazy thing is. The crazy thing about this is that it's a storybook in a theory for children about returning veterans and how complex it is being a veteran coming back. And so they go on these honor tours, which is, of course, a wonderful thing.
- [46:56]
A
But let's just consider this in terms of the. The politics. First, we have Sarah Palin. Not exactly.
- [47:06]
B
Who wants to be reminded of Sarah Palin? I can see Russia from my house.
- [47:10]
A
And then we have the daughter Bristol. Bristol, yeah. Who, you know, with a series of pregnancies in and out of wedlock,
- [47:22]
B
which I think her mother wasn't quite sure about when she was chosen to be John McCain's.
- [47:27]
A
Yes.
- [47:27]
B
No.
- [47:30]
A
A whole set of kind of like, do we really want this? What message are we sending here? And then the husband, who is no longer the husband.
- [47:42]
B
So he's been married. He's been married twice, each time for two years. When he got. When he and Bristol discovered they were having a child together, he asked her for alimony. How is this, Usha, this is just a direct appeal to you. How is this the right author for children for your audience? Because, remember, this is supposed to be for children. The first time we had Beatrix Potter, and then we've gone to this book about veterans where one line in the story is how veterans come back and they're sometimes mired in a quagmire of despair. And I can only think it's ushavants doing her own little bit of subversion.
- [48:29]
A
You're more optimistic than I am.
- [48:33]
B
Well, either that or she's being fantastically badly advised. And she's also wearing the most peculiar scarf I've ever seen in my life.
- [48:43]
A
I mean, I don't know why you would assume that. That the woman married to J.D. vance is actually someone who has.
- [48:50]
B
Because J.D. vance in 2016 said Trump was the new Hitler. That I think they're well aware of.
- [48:58]
A
It's true. And he wrote a fairly good book.
- [49:01]
B
He wrote a very good book. Hillbilly Elephant. My children still haven't forgiven me for forcing them to read. I forced one of them to read it for a school letter, and he was just. He still hasn't forgiven me.
- [49:14]
A
It's very difficult to force children to read books.
- [49:16]
B
I know, I know. Well, I think he got halfway through it. But the point is that I think that JD and ushavants do actually know about Trump.
- [49:24]
A
I would cast this in a different way. I think that they are probably.
- [49:27]
B
I'm completely wrong.
- [49:29]
A
No, you might. But I think that they are cold, ambitious, kill anybody sons of bitches, and I think they both are. I think they're in this together, and it's all about the opportunity. Now, why she's doing this so poorly is just because she's not good at it.
- [49:54]
B
Right. But it's terrible what happens to the wives of these politicians. Why shouldn't she be doing some legal work? Why isn't she doing what she's good at? It's ridiculous to read to children like this.
- [50:09]
A
It's good. I think that that's just probably naive. She's doing this because this is where the power is. She understands that. He understands that they're in this together. And if that's not the case, then they're gonna get a divorce. So it's literally binary.
- [50:26]
B
We do want to know. I'm just reminding people in the comments. Do you think Donald Trump will live out the presidency? I have to ask you about the MOCA test and whether or not we can remember the five words. I'm pretty sure I can't. All right, what are the words? I'm not going to look. What are the words?
- [50:43]
A
Cotton, white pants.
- [50:46]
B
No pants. Leg.
- [50:48]
A
Leg. Oh, that's why. That's the that you see?
- [50:51]
B
Yeah. That's the connection. Leg. School.
- [50:54]
A
School.
- [50:55]
B
Fruit.
- [50:57]
A
Not fruit.
- [50:57]
B
No. What's the fruit? Slash vegetable. Always a source of discussion is a fruit or a vegetable. Right.
- [51:06]
A
Tomato.
- [51:07]
B
Right. Okay, that's not bad. All right, so, okay. We wish our president good luck with the mocha test as he's taking it again today. We had no limericks this week, but we got two illustrations. These are from two retired Canadians who are fans of the podcast. And these are pencil sketches. I'm going to hold them up. This is me. And then this one, which I think is even more like likeness, is a few. Thank you so much from Sandy Gowsten. Sandy, thank you. Good likeness. Very good likeness. Don't forget to subscribe. Smash the subscription button. We're trying to get to 700,000. We're almost there. We need your support. And we're independent media. There's not that many of us left. And so we really appreciate your support. You have been. Thank you for watching us. We have a new producer here today, John Romero. Thank you for sitting in.
- [52:08]
A
John, thank you for coming on board. And John, apparently, is a technical genius with which we need.
- [52:17]
B
Which we need. We really need. John, welcome. And then do you want to thank the rest of our team?
- [52:23]
A
Ryan, Heather, Rachel and Neil, of course.
- [52:27]
B
We will be back on Thursday. So the good news is we have so many Beast Tier members now, there are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support.