Why Manic Trump Is in His ‘Crazy Uncle’ Era: Wolff

Summary

The Daily Beast Podcast

Episode: "Why Manic Trump Is in His ‘Crazy Uncle’ Era: Wolff"

Date: June 26, 2026
Hosts: Joanna Coles (Chief Content Officer, The Daily Beast) & Michael (Presumed: Michael Wolff)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the tumultuous state of Donald Trump’s second presidential term, with a particular focus on his recent erratic behavior and what Michael terms his “crazy uncle” phase. The conversation is wide-ranging—covering Trump’s confrontational interactions with Congressional Republicans, the fallout from the Iran war, the shifting dynamics in the GOP and MAGA movement, the impact of leftward shifts in the New York primaries, military leadership upheaval, and the oddities of Vice President J.D. Vance’s wife’s children’s storytime podcast. The tone is sharp, irreverent, and richly detailed, marked by memorable anecdotes, razor-sharp insights, and biting humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s “Manic-Depressive” Era & the GOP Showdown

Timestamps: [01:28], [05:25], [14:18]

• Mania to Depression: Michael introduces the main thesis:

  “The first year of this term, of this second term was all mania. Moving fast, moving, doing everything possible, doing even more of it, and stunning everybody. But then all of that stuff catches up with him… plunging him into the depressive phase… Nothing is working. Everybody treats him like he's the crazy uncle.” ([01:28], [15:03])

• Republican Lunch Blow-up: Trump’s uncontrolled outburst at a Republican Senate lunch is highlighted. He berates Senators Rand Paul and Bill Cassidy, calling Cassidy a “loser” and a “lunatic.”

  “Donald Trump showed up at Congress, showed up at a lunch for Senate Republicans and had a screaming fight with them… literally screams at them.” ([05:25], [12:46])

• The “Humor” Strategy: Michael argues the GOP is humoring Trump like a “crazy uncle” since they have no real mechanism—short of invoking the 25th Amendment—to deal with his volatility.

  “How do you treat a crazy guy? You try to humor him, you try to avoid head to head conflict with him. But everybody knows… he's crazy.” ([14:18])

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2. Policy Paralysis: Iran, Housing, and Internal Deadlock

Timestamps: [07:34], [09:13], [10:01]

• Iran War’s Fallout: Trump’s push for a peace deal on Iran is seen as a capitulation—rendering him weak, politically isolated, and at odds with both base and establishment.

  “The war in Iran, which he has struggled to find some kind of peace deal and finally gotten a peace deal which represents… a complete capitulation of his terms and his goals…” ([05:25])

• Domestic Stalemate: He cancels a bipartisan housing bill signing out of pique, and is furious at Congress for not passing his election reform or filibuster changes, further alienating allies.

  “This is a bill that has passed. It will become law… Trump was set to have… a typical ceremony… Out of pique, he canceled this.” ([09:13])

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3. The MAGA Fracture: Tucker Carlson, JD Vance, and the Search for Relevancy

Timestamps: [21:51], [22:05], [24:53], [27:16]

• Tucker Turns: An in-depth discussion of Tucker Carlson’s recent Sky Global interview, where he boldly states “MAGA is over” and distances himself from Trump, signaling loyalty to J.D. Vance.

  “Tucker claims that he said to him, you know, you're going to be known as the Iran war guy. Why do you want to do this? This is not what you campaigned on...” ([22:05])

• Carlson’s Hypnotism Theory:

  “There's a moment where [Tucker] says, ‘It's possible he was hypnotized, hypnotized into doing it.’” ([22:05])

• Tucker as Informant: Michael notes Tucker’s duality—public MAGA champion, private critic, and perpetual gossip.

  “He hates Donald Trump, has always hated Donald Trump, has always had a clear eye understanding of what Donald Trump is and his unfitness for this office. But he has made a devil's bargain.” ([25:35])

• J.D. Vance’s Bind: Discussion of Vance’s loyalty struggles—Tucker’s attempts to nudge him away from Trump and the challenge of maintaining MAGA base support.

  “J.D. Vance is in part, in strong part invented by Tucker Carlson… he was one of his big supporters for the Vice Presidency.” ([27:44])

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4. The Leftward Surge: Mamdani’s Influence and New York Politics

Timestamps: [04:10], [37:10], [38:09], [41:44]

• Far-Left Victories: Mamdani-backed candidates’ victories in three NY Congressional primaries signal a generational and ideological handover from moneyed, moderate “liberal Richies” to the children of privilege advocating radically left policy.

  “He invested a lot of personal political capital in this… He's pushed out pretty establishment players. And it's interesting to see… what the Democratic Party is becoming, what the urban Democratic Party particularly is coming.” ([38:09])

• Gentrification Coalition:

  “The Mamdani coalition is essentially a gentrification coalition.” ([41:44])

• Notable Race: Jack Schlossberg’s failed bid in Manhattan (District 12) is dissected—despite Kennedy lineage, image problems (and a now-infamous “nap” New York Times report) doom his campaign.

  “Poor Jack Schlossberg was… a social media crazy person… suffered from the fact that he was running as a Kennedy, but his name was Schlossberger.” ([42:53])

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5. Military Shakeups: Hegseth’s Disruption

Timestamps: [31:28], [33:54], [34:34]

• Leadership Purges: Pete Hegseth’s elevation to military leadership and removal of respected generals like Chris Donahue is flagged as a dangerous disruption by a political amateur.

  “He was briefly in uniform himself… a major… now he's running the United States military … as a real disruptor…” ([32:24])

• Loss of Expertise: Michael and Joanna warn of a coming “invisible crisis” from mass attrition in government and military structures under Trump loyalists.

  “We're going to see… the effect of losing an enormous amount of talent in the United States government, in the United States military…” ([34:34])

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6. Israel, Gaza, and US Political Fallout

Timestamps: [46:59], [47:53], [48:13], [49:40], [50:51]

• Israel as a Wedge: Both parties are struggling with Israel policy as public opinion (especially among the young left) turns.

  “Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans kind of know which way to turn on this. And how you play this issue is going to be… highly relevant to the midterms.” ([46:59])

• Tucker’s Rhetoric: Carlson frames the US-Israel relationship as “master-slave”, while Michael calls out his antisemitism and warns of rising anti-Israel, antisemitic sentiment within MAGA.

  “Tucker is an anti Semite. I mean, why pretend otherwise?... this new narrative against Israel… can very likely… break the relationship between the U.S. and Israel.” ([50:51])

• Trump’s Dilemma: Once a strong Netanyahu backer, Trump is now furiously conflicted as his MAGA base and political circumstances shift.

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7. Absurdity in the Vice Presidency: Storytime with the Second Lady

Timestamps: [53:09], [54:15], [56:33]

• JD & Usha Vance’s Kids Podcast: "Storytime with the Second Lady" is mockingly dissected as tone-deaf political theater with zero audience, yet with an accidental note of subversive library advocacy.

  “She has her, her funny expression… when we read, we grow. It's just, it's the weirdest podcast ever.” ([56:09])

• Audience of One: Joanna jokes that the only real audience might be Usha herself.

  “This is kind of like, like make believe television. I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna pretend I'm on television. But I have an audience. A zero audience.” ([56:57])

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8. Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Trump’s “crazy uncle” reputation:

  “Everybody treats him like he's the crazy uncle, which makes him become more agitated in his unhappiness, in his depression… nothing is going right for him at all.” (Michael, [01:28])

• On Bill Cassidy’s brush-off post-confrontation:

  “When asked if he'd been called a lunatic, he just said, well, let me say that the language of the playground was invoked…” (Joanna, [13:26])

• On the generational leftward shift in NY:

  “It is this kind of young white privileged lefties saying they want their turn at the trough.” (Michael, [40:39])

• On Trump’s sense of humor:

  “His sense of humor has always been make fun of someone else.” (Michael, [18:30])

• On government hollowing:

  “This is the… invisible crisis at this point, because the Trumps, the Trumpers are still in charge, still, … acting as though the government is running.” (Michael, [34:34])

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Start | End | |---------------------------------------|----------|----------| | Trump’s Meltdown with GOP | 05:25 | 15:13 | | MAGA Fracture & Tucker Carlson | 21:51 | 28:30 | | NY’s Mamdani-Backed Political Shift | 37:10 | 46:09 | | Military Leadership Upheaval | 31:28 | 36:58 | | Israel, Gaza, and US Fallout | 46:59 | 52:58 | | Storytime with the Second Lady | 53:09 | 56:57 |

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Tone and Style

The episode is witty, irreverent, and at times darkly comic, featuring banter amid the gravity—a signature blend for The Daily Beast’s political coverage. Guests don’t mince words, sometimes veering into blunt, even caustic, territory.

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Useful for New Listeners

The episode richly contextualizes the current state of US (and global) politics in Trump’s second term, the Republican party’s inner crises, shifts in Democratic constituencies, the media personalities shaping the conversation, and the bizarre soft power performances of White House figures. Listeners are walked through the “manic–depressive” dynamic of Trump’s leadership, with plenty of inside baseball, snark, and sharp political analysis to bring the headlines to life—even for those not following the daily news cycle closely.

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Note: For brevity, musical numbers, introductions, and ad breaks have been omitted per instruction.

Transcript

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[Michael]

See full [e-mail] we're seeing an interesting panic depressive display. The first year of this term, of this second term was all mania. Moving fast, moving, doing everything possible, doing even more of it and stunning everybody. But then all of that stuff catches up with him, which is where we are now, plunging him into the depressive phase of this Nothing is working. Everybody treats him like he's the crazy uncle, which makes him become more agitated in his unhappiness, in his depression is in the sense that nothing is going right for him at all. Michael Joanna, Should I ask where are you?

[Joanna Scholes]

You may ask where I am and I will tell you. I am so hot. I am in Paris and this is a bit of a rite of passage for me because I'm actually staying with my adult son. It's the first time I've ever stayed with one of my adult children in their apartment. Happily, he has very mild air conditioning, but it is so hot. It feels, I mean it feels as if you could butter the air with that delicious French butter. It is just so thick and hot. I used to live Here. I don't remember it ever being this hot. It's hotter in Paris than it was in the south of France because, of course, there you've got the breeze. There is no breeze here.

[Michael]

So across, apparently London, also everywhere in Europe. So.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, I'm not going to know what

[Michael]

to say, but it's very cool in the Hamptons. I was in the city yesterday. Also quite cool.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, I'm very much looking forward to getting back. This has been a long trip. I don't like actually being out of New York for very long.

[Michael]

You're coming back.

[Joanna Scholes]

I know. Someone reminded me the other day. I have a life in America.

[Michael]

Back to work, Joanna Scholes.

[Joanna Scholes]

Back to work. I have been working. I have been working.

[Michael]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what they always say.

[Joanna Scholes]

Have microphone, will travel. Although every time I go through airport security, they want to know what the microphone is and they sort of pull it out and look at it and I say it's a microphone. And then they pretend to talk into it and I laugh and say they should be a guest on the podcast. And, well, and then they stuff it back in my bag and I have to repack everything and it's all a nightmare.

[Michael]

But we have poor you.

[Joanna Scholes]

I know, poor me, poor me in my international life of mystery. So we have a lot to discuss today. We've got the Mamdani influence.

[Michael]

Someday you're going to come on and say we don't have very much to discuss.

[Joanna Scholes]

I'm never gonna say that we have to discuss.

[Michael]

Otherwise we're out of a job.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, there is an enormous amount to discuss. Not least Donald Trump attacking his Republicans, Mamdani's influence or impact on the three New York Congress people. We've got Hegseth and the generals. We've got the Fourth of July and the celebrations for that with Lee Greenwood singing his song whatever it is. And we've got the Ellisons and a payment, it turns out, they made of $45 million to Donald Trump. Then we've got Tucker Carlson in a new interview with Sky News saying that MAGA is over and sidling up very clearly to J.D. vance. I think this is Tucker Carlson striving for relevancy. The so where do we begin? Where do we begin, Michael? Bill Cassidy being called a lunatic by the president.

[Michael]

No, I think that that was extraordinary yesterday. So Donald Trump showed up at Congress, showed up at a lunch for Senate Republicans and had a screaming fight with them. So, I mean, set the stage for this. Here is Donald Trump at the nadir of his Presidency, at least of the second term of his presidency. The nadir of his presidency was the first time he was defeated. So here we are in the second term. His polls could not get lower. Every issue in front of him is a problematic issue, the war in Iran, which he has struggled to find some kind of peace deal and finally gotten a peace deal which represents, and I think everybody, there's nobody who doesn't understand this, a complete capitulation of his terms and his goals, an economy that won't cooperate, inflation on the rise. And remember, inflation is the single issue that got him elected in 2024. The ICE thing continues to go on, continues to be devil him taking immigration from one of the other issues that got him elected. And now a complete negative, serving up only negatives to him at this point because of masked men in the streets and then the reflecting pool. Let us not forget that he can't seem to get anything. The world is now regarding, seems to be regarding Donald Trump as a. As, at least in Donald Trump's view, as his enemy. So he shows up then in front of the Republicans in Congress, the people, the exact people he has to rely

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on,

[Michael]

and he screams at them, literally screams at them.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, maybe he's been influenced by having the UFC on the south lawn of the White House and he's like, well, maybe bare knuckle fighting. Isn't that what the Hill is supposed to be all about? And he's taken that aggression up to the Capitol with him. But the battle in particular is about his. Well, there were two things going on, right? There was his fury at four Republicans holding out, voting against him, being allowed to carry on in Iran. So the war resolution powers or the war powers resolution.

[Michael]

Well, that. And that's just the most recent. There's been a string of things. So work them, walk them backwards.

[Joanna Scholes]

Okay. And then there was also the refusal to vote on a bipartisan housing bill that would have brought relief to people. He refused to. Well, he refused to sign it. He refused to sign it.

[Michael]

So this is a bill that has passed. It will become law. They expected that there to be some signing ceremony because everybody's in. Both Democrats and Republicans are. Want to run on this. They're pretty proud of it. This is a central, A central issue will be a central 2028 issue. Housing. Housing, affordable housing. And so Trump was set to have one of a typical ceremony which everybody then gets the crowd stand behind him and get a, Get a pen and out of, out of, out of.

[Joanna Scholes]

Get a pen, get a pen. And we've Seen so many of those things. He's kind of sitting there, they're all standing behind him. At some point, he asks where someone is who's standing right next to him and they go, I'm here, sir, I'm here, sir. They put a reassuring hand on his shoulder out of pique.

[Michael]

He canceled this. And one of the reasons he's canceled this is that there are actually two issues. His election reform, so called reform issue that he wants passed, which the Senate has not acted on because the Senate Republican leaders say, hey, it's not going to pass. We don't have the votes.

[Joanna Scholes]

And that's the Safeguard American Voter Eligibility Act. Yeah, the save bill.

[Michael]

Yes. Looking toward the midterms, the desperate conditions of the midterms. This is what the White House and Trump feels, at least we'll give them. At least they're trying to claw any advantage they can claw. And this would be one thing, but they can't get the bill passed. And that's what the Senate is telling them. They're saying, hey, it's not gonna happen. So he's nevertheless pissed at that. And then he is pissed at the fact that, that they will not overturn the filibuster of which they have said in which Senates, both Democrats and Republicans, in the Senate. That would be a historic moment of transformation in how the Senate works and the Senate traditions, the Senate customs, the Senate rules. And Senators are saying, no, no, this is what we're here. We're supposed to be protecting this institution. And Donald Trump is saying, you know, fuck that. You know, I want what I want and you won't give it to me. So I'm going to yell at you.

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[Michael]

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[Joanna Scholes]

Well, and we should point out that the two people that he really yelled at, one was Rand Paul, who's often in conflict with the president. And then the other was Senator Bill Cassidy, a doctor whose vote, you will remember, was essential in confirming Robert Kennedy Jr. Still Jr, it's 72. As the health and Human Services Secretary. And because he'd gone up against Trump, Trump had him primaried in Louisiana, where his Senate seat is. Trump's candidate won the primary. So Cassidy is about to leave the Senate. So he has nothing to lose. Why he didn't speak up earlier? You know, he didn't because he was afraid he was going to be primaried. Well, he was primaried and now too little, too late. He's making a fuss on the way out. And in fact, Trump apparently yelled at him that he was a lunatic and then he ended up climbing down.

[Michael]

He yelled at him also that he was a loser. You're a loser, you're a loser.

[Joanna Scholes]

I mean, he's a loser and he's a lunatic.

[Michael]

They didn't repeal the law that they passed. They just voted on something else. So where that ends up for anyone, how the nature of reality changes with the second vote, I don't know. But it is clearly the second vote. Yeah, okay. I mean, it was clearly like, yeah, okay, we're going to, we'll have a second vote, which will be meaningless, but it will keep Donald Trump happier than he'll get. This will get him off our backs.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, it was quite pathetic to see Bill Cassidy come out of the room. Obviously he was pursued by a pack of microphones and he just said, when asked if he'd been called a lunatic, he just said, well, let me say that the language of the playground was invoked and then he kept on going. And apparently at one point it was

[Michael]

so remember the language of the locker room?

[Joanna Scholes]

Yeah, well, that's true. Yeah. But apparently at one point it was so contentious that the guy sitting next to Bill Cassidy pulled him down and made him sit down. So everybody seemed slightly stunned coming out of that lunch. I was watching the videos of them all and, you know, it's just sort of, why is Trump doing this? But then he got his own way. So it worked.

[Michael]

Well, I'm not sure it didn't work. I mean, he just got something. They mollify him. But nevertheless, actually the trend is, you know, we understand. I mean, I think what's going on in the bubble over their heads is, yeah, this is a crazy guy. And how do you treat a crazy guy? You try to humor him, you try to avoid head to head conflict with him. But everybody knows. And I think that here's the takeaway. Everybody knows he's crazy, but if everybody

[Joanna Scholes]

knows he's crazy, why don't they try and stop him from doing some of the crazy things he's doing? I mean, they're the ones that are going to get voted out in the midterms.

[Michael]

Well, Actually, we don't. Some of them are going to get voted out. Some of them, they continue to need him. We've just gone through the primary season, and that was a threat to everyone. I mean, they're dealing. The Republicans, and we're talking about Republicans now are dealing with this very specific Trump ecology, and they really don't quite know how to deal with it. I mean, let's. Let's accept this guy is crazy. Everybody knows that. But that doesn't change the reality of having to deal with him unless you evoke the 25th Amendment, which is not going to happen. I mean, that's another issue. How do you deal with a president who is crazy without a realistic mechanism to deal with that? I mean, this is what's going on right now. Totally. You know, I mean. I mean, I kind of think, you know, what we're seeing is I'll give as much as I am against diagnosing somebody when we haven't examined him. And in fact, we are not doctors. I would nevertheless say this is an interesting. We're seeing an interesting manic depressive display. The first year of this term, of this second term was all mania. Moving fast, moving, doing everything possible, doing even more of it, and stunning everybody. Nobody knew who to react. But then all of that stuff catches up with him, which is where we are now, and plunging him into the depressive phase of this. Nothing is working everybody. Everywhere he goes, he gets pushback, can't accomplish anything. Everybody treats him kind of like he's the crazy uncle, which makes him become more agitated in his unhappiness, in his depression, is, in this sense that nothing is going right for him at all.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, and it makes him angry. Actually, we had a ton of comments this week sort of saying, michael, people can see this happening. I mean, they know that you have not yet fully embraced the idea that Trump may have dementia. A lot of people watching him just say it's very clear that he's not acting rationally, that we have seen him over the last 10, 15, 20 years, and he's definitely changed, and it may be the presidency that's changed him.

[Michael]

First thing. I don't think that that's true. I mean, he may have gotten. There may be an increase here, that it may be more of the same, but he hasn't changed. This is Donald Trump. This has always been Donald Trump.

[Joanna Scholes]

He used to have more of a sense of humor, didn't he? He definitely seems angry, but maybe that's because the world is on fire and he was the arsonist.

[Michael]

Yeah, I mean, he's, He's. Did he have a sense of humor? Yeah, I mean, I think I. And I don't. He has had a sort of a sense of humor. Not a sense of humor like you have or I have. His sense of humor has always been make fun of someone else.

[Joanna Scholes]

Right. Mean, mean sense of humor.

[Michael]

Yeah. And that is when you're not the person being made fun of. That is actually kind of funny.

[Joanna Scholes]

Is it funny? It's not funny to poke fun at people who are handicapped. You remember when he did that to the reporter and he started pretending he was handicapped?

[Podcast Host - Advertisement Voice]

I do know.

[Michael]

I do know. But that is. I could actually have back. He does that. That is his gesture that he does for everyone. So that was. I mean, this is a digression here, but worth pointing out that that was then taken up, that he was mimicking a handicapped person. In fact, it is the gesture that he uses to make fun of everyone. His hands go crazy. And he kind of. I think the implication is that whoever he's making fun of is a crazy person, not him, a crazy person. But anyway, I would also push back. Yes, it is funny, often funny when you make fun of somebody who. And you are not the butt of that joke. You and I, off camera, are always making fun of people we know and enjoying it.

[Joanna Scholes]

Are we? I can't even remember. Usually we're having tech problems, usually when we're off camera. If only people could have seen. Seen us. This morning. There was a wonderful moment where Michael is struggling to get something opening on his computer. And I say, what are you trying to do? And he goes like, you can help me. Which is fair because my tech and Michael's tech, our skills lack something. They do lack something. Anyway, I thought both the president and Bill Cassidy came out looking pathetic after that exchange. And you just think, how is it possible that these men are leading the United States of America?

[Michael]

Absolutely. But the larger thing is, how does Donald Trump think this? Confronting Republicans in Congress, belittling them, screaming at them, calling them losers. How does he think this helps his case? How does he think this is going to unite a party that has an uphill battle before it for the midterm election?

[Joanna Scholes]

But he's just doing what you say he always does. He's doubling down, and he's doubling down on someone he's already primaried. So Bill Cassidy, to that extent, is a loser. He lost the primary. He's no longer standing. He's going to have to rethink his career.

[Michael]

Believe me, this does not endear him to the other. Other Republicans in Congress, quite the opposite. And he is gonna need these people. So we're in this other thing and we can move this. Whether you wanna call it dementia, manic depressiveness, just pure craziness, just pure Trumpiness. He is pushing himself into a. Into. I mean, he's shooting himself in the foot, which is one of the things that he always does.

[Joanna Scholes]

So there's a new interview with Tucker Carlson by someone called Yalda Hakim, who is the Sky Global correspondence.

[Michael]

Yeah, I know her. I've done many interviews with her. I mean, I've done a lot of stuff with sky. And she's top notch.

[Joanna Scholes]

Yeah, she seems very top notch. It's a thoughtful interview. And he talks about Trump is over, and he talks about going to see Trump in February to try and talk him out of the decision to go into Iran. And he cannot understand why he's doing it. The people around him, his advisors, inasmuch as Trump listens to anybody, are all saying this is not a good idea. Carlson says Trump understands the risks and decides to do it anyway. And Tucker claims that he said to him, you know, you're going to be known as the Iran war guy. Why do you want to do this? This is not what you campaigned on. And then there's a moment where he appears to be serious, where he says, it's possible he was hypnotized, hypnotized into doing it. And Yelda says, really? And Tucker goes, yes, yes, he could have been hypnotized and being serious about this. And it's unclear who would have hypnotized him. But the significance, I think, of the interview is just that sense in which this is not what the MAGA base wanted. Tucker does appear to be in touch with the MAGA base and understand them and be of it. And it's him, I think, sidling up to JD Vance and away from Donald Trump, looking for relevancy for Tucker, but understanding the point that you have made now over the last few weeks, that this is Trump's nadir, that this war was a mistake and that he may

[Michael]

not come back from it, I think that that's true. But I think it's also helpful and relevant to see this as a. Through Tucker's eyes and through Tucker's eyes. And I've had spent a lot of time over the course of the last 10 years, the Trump era, talking to Tucker about this. And Tucker has been kind of an instrumental supporter of Donald Trump on camera, while off camera, he has been constantly, repeatedly, one of his more devastating critics. Tucker is also one of the, one of the more reliable and insightful gossips. So a lot of the behind the scenes stuff about Donald Trump, about his character, about what's going on in the White House, about who's saying what to whom comes from Tucker. Tucker is everybody's source.

[Joanna Scholes]

That's interesting. That's very interesting.

[Michael]

Including one of my sources. But the man, I mean, first thing, the guy is a fantastic source. Cannot keep his mouth shut.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, and we remember all the, all the. During the Dominion case when Fox was sued by the voting company Dominion because they insisted that the voting machine. And of course, Fox lost that case to the tune of almost a billion dollars. Tucker's emails come out and they're full of I hate Donald Trump. I'll be so glad never having to mention him again at this point. He was still on Fox News and of course he loses his job as part of the settlement with Dominion. But who is he talking to then, other than you? But who's he talking to in the MAGA movement about who Donald Trump really is?

[Michael]

I mean, I think, I mean, first, first understand, so he has, he hates Donald Trump, has always hated Donald Trump, has always had a clear eye understanding of what Donald Trump is and his unfitness for this office. But he has made a devil's bargain. I can't stop him. Trump is going to be Trump. Trump is going to win. Trump controls this MAGA universe and that's where my bread is. But so I'm stuck. But right now, I think and see this through the eyes of an opportunist, which Tucker certainly is, he is saying, no, this is coming apart. This is not where you want to be with Donald Trump because Donald Trump is going down. So this is the moment when you have to start to save yourself. And I think we can project this out in, into the heads of so many other people who have made this same devil's bargain and they are now saying, this is not going to carry me, this is going to hurt me. I got to get distance from this guy. And I think Your point about J.D. vance is half right, but only half right, which is that he's throwing down a challenge to J.D. vance. And the challenge is you gotta distance yourself from Donald Trump or if you don't, you're gonna be stuck to this guy. And then MAGA is gonna go in another direction, the Tucker direction. I'm sure that he is a fantasy on some level for Tucker.

[Joanna Scholes]

I think that that's right in terms of it felt like he was advising J.D. vance. So he kept saying, you know J.D. vance, I love the guy, he's a really good man. And then saying he's stuck in this very difficult position. He's the Vice President. He's being, trying to be loyal to the President, which is what a vice president should be, but he doesn't agree with the policy. So he was trying to give JD Vance the benefit of the doubt sidling up to him.

[Michael]

And remember, J.D. vance is in part, in strong part invented by Tucker Carlson. Tucker was one of his big supporters for the Vice Presidency. Tucker, while he had his show on Fox, made J.D. vance a rather constant presence.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, it's an interesting interview. It's worth watching if you want to try and understand the extent to which I think he channels maga. So I guess my question for you is, do you think, think that this war, I mean, I suppose we don't know how it's actually going to continue or if it's going to continue. Do you think it does split the MAGA base or do you think by the midterms people have just forgotten it?

[Michael]

Well, I think that's now Donald Trump's strategy. I gotta get out of this war. I'll take any terms to get out of this war. Total capitulation on my part, on the part of the United States of America, just so it can be forgotten. And, and I feel like he's changed

[Joanna Scholes]

the way he's talking about it too. So we never hear about regime change anymore. Do you remember that moment?

[Michael]

Quite the opposite. He is now talking about it like, these are good guys, right? You know, we can, we can really work with these guys. They're really, you know, you know, they don't have their heads in the clouds. They're practical people. I mean. Oh, my God.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, then you remember the first speech he made when the bombing, right after the bombing, where he said to the Iranian people, rise up. This is your moment. And of course, they haven't been able to. It's not their moment, it's certainly not his moment. But now he only talks about it in terms of Iran must not be allowed a nuclear weapon. That's what it seems to have all been reduced to. I mean, I was talking to someone who'd been at a rally the other day and they said all he mentioned, he barely mentioned the war. And just to say Iran must never have a nuclear weapon.

[Michael]

Yeah, and this is. So he is, I mean, this is going to be the net, net of this is that he'll have, he'll have worse terms that Than, than Obama achieved. That's it.

[Joanna Scholes]

Way worse terms. Way worse.

[Michael]

And yeah, and the Middle east will be configured in ways much to our detriment. I mean it's an important moment, quite an extraordinary moment. And one of the things sort of one of the upsides is it really finally, irrevocably, I would say, kills off the neocon dream. And the neocon dream has always centered ultimately about around Iran. And Donald Trump did exactly what the neocons have always been urging. Unleash the might of the United States on Iran and finish it off. Well, we did unleash the might of the United States on Iran and in certainly didn't finish them off.

[Joanna Scholes]

Right. They're still there. They're still there.

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[Joanna Scholes]

Hagers, as we pointed out the other day, seems to have gone quiet. But longing for Donald Trump's attention, he's bounced back up again, this time trying to maneuver out General Chris Donohue who has been leading American troops in Europe. Do you have thoughts on this? This is him sort of, you know, our chief warrior Pete Hagers re reorganizing the deck.

[Michael]

I mean I think it's extraordinary. You have another unfit person, a person who has no experience in minor experience in, in military matters. You know, as we say the weekend co host of a, of a, of a television show and a brief spin. Spit in. Brief spit.

[Joanna Scholes]

What are you trying to say? A brief.

[Michael]

Who knows what I'm trying to say. But anyway, he was briefly in uniform himself. I think he had a single tour in Iraq. He was a member of the National Guard, not of the regular army and I think he was a major and now he's running the United States military and running it in, we can assume his image or Donald Trump's image or what he thinks is Donald Trump's image, but as a real disruptor and I don't say that in the popularly good sense of the word disruption disruptor of the United States military. What effect, what long term effect this will have we've yet to see because he's pushing he's pushing out people who have been regarded as the cream of the military. This guy Chris Donahue, who was slated, I think, in most people's estimation, to be a potential head of the Joint Chiefs and certainly head of his own service and pushed out, gone out of the military, go away from on the

[Joanna Scholes]

Hagers, I would think. And of course, one remembers back to that remarkable event that Hegseth did where he called in all the generals from all over the world, from wherever American forces are based. He called in senior people, harangued them for being fat and not being fit enough. And you just wonder what that must be like to be a junior, to have been, as you say, a major in the National Guard, suddenly in charge of all these incredibly smart, thoughtful for, I mean, it's just, it's like a sort of child being put in charge of the school.

[Michael]

Well, I think one of the things in the post Trump world we're going to see is the effect of losing an enormous amount of talent in the United States government, in the United States military, United States Justice Department, in agencies across the executive branch. I mean, this is the, you know, this is the crisis that we, the sort of the invisible crisis at this, at this point, because the Trumps, the Trumpers are still in charge, still, you know, acting, acting as though the government is running. And then it will be a different story, a different kind of acting, a different kind of understanding when new people have to come in, which they will and have to accomplish something and realize there's nobody here to do it.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, an invisible crisis is a really good way of putting it. And you think of the Iran experts that were fired from the Pentagon. And you know, one imagines that Donald Trump understood the Strait of Hormuz situation were he to start bombing Iran. But we have no idea what's going to happen to the Strait of Hormuz now. We have literally no idea whether at the end of the memo of understanding, the Iranians decide to charge people.

[Michael]

I mean, this idea that these professional soldiers, people who have done this their entire careers, are now at the whim of an alcoholic former weekend television co host, a person of no accomplishment whatsoever.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, and who ran two Veterans affairs associations and both times he left for incompetence, utter incompetence, it's really alarming. It's really alarming. And as we know, this is going on from government department to government department. At some point, we must look at what Mark Wayne Mullen is doing at Homeland Security. I mean, we don't even know who's gone into Labour. Can you name the Labour secretary?

[Michael]

Is there a new Labour secretary? I'm not sure that there is.

[Joanna Scholes]

I don't know. I don't know. But we should find out. We should find out anyway. We do have other things to discuss now.

[Michael]

I think let's, let's spend at least a few minutes on the election, especially the New York election, the Mamdani election.

[Joanna Scholes]

Yep.

[Michael]

Because this is going to be deeply meaningful in terms of, at least in terms of how the Democrats see their future. So as, as, as fraught as Donald Trump is with regard to the midterms as fraud, as he sees, I think is beginning to see his fate, you know, the Democrats, it's not clear how the Democrats who have a powerful advantage, it's not clear how they take advantage of it. So the idea in New York, and this is certainly the Mamdani election, is to go as far left as possible.

[Joanna Scholes]

So all three candidates that Mamdani endorsed won their elections. These are all for congressional seats.

[Michael]

Yes, there are other, some down ballot elections too, but those are the important ones. I mean, he invested a lot of personal political capital in this. It was not at all clear that these were going to be victories. They weren't necessarily easy victories, but they were victories. They are victories. I mean, he won. He's pushed out pretty establishment players. And it's interesting to see this in terms of, in terms of what the Democratic Party is becoming, what the urban Democratic Party particularly is coming. You've had over the last decades. The liberal establishment in New York City was pretty much of a money crowd. It was essentially, you know, the Goldman Sachs crowd, a media crowd,

[Joanna Scholes]

moderate politically. It was moderate. And it believed in low taxes and creating a business environment so people could earn money instead of taxing everybody.

[Michael]

It reflected this new golden city, you know, a city of incredible money.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, New York is a luxury city. Right. New York was the luxury. Well, you know, living in New York was the luxury. That was the kind of feeling.

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Right.

[Michael]

I mean, that was, that was a, that's, that's been the mood of the last number of decades. I mean, before that, in this, in the city, it wasn't like that. New York City was the crime city. New York City, you know, Democrats were kind of, you know, machine working class, ethnic. That, that, that was the Democratic makeup. And then it shifted to this, this, you know, the Richies, we're liberal Richies. And now this is clearly a reaction to that.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, the children of liberal Richies, who, a lot of these Mamdani supporters are totally, totally Gonna have the life that their parents had until they get the trickle down of wealth. And so they're all complaining.

[Michael]

Yes. And it is this kind of young white privileged lefties saying they want their turn at the trough.

[Joanna Scholes]

No, I mean, it's fascinating. Mamdani himself, you know, his mother is a filmmaker. I love her films, actually. Mira Naye, I think they're great. Mississippi Masala is a great film salon. Bombay is a wonderful film. And his father was an academic at Columbia. Yet you would think, by the way he talks that he'd grown up somewhere where he'd struggled all his life to, you know, to get an education. And in fact, he went to Bank Street. He. He went to one of the best gifted and talented programs at Bronx Science. This is a man who's had doors open for him wherever he's gone.

[Michael]

Yeah, yeah. It's not the poor who are challenging the economic order. It is in fact, the privileged. In matter of fact, the poor. They've pushed. The Mamdani coalition has, is essentially a gentrification coalition.

[Joanna Scholes]

That's good. Gentrification. I love that. Gentrification coalition. That's exactly what it is.

[Michael]

They've pushed out the ethnic voters and the ethnic voters, the Hispanic voters, the black voters, who remain actually pretty much part of, of the old fashioned Democratic establishment.

[Joanna Scholes]

And of course, District 12, which is the sort of bulk of Manhattan and had been held by Jerry Nadler for 30 years, attracted all sorts of candidates. At one point, I think there were up to 15 candidates running. Jack Schlossberg, the grandson of President Kennedy, Kennedy, jfk, he was running. George Conway, the former Republican, the lawyer, whose wife was Kellyanne Conway, very president, very present in the first Trump administration. He was running. He came nowhere. Jack Schlossberg, the grandson, struggled to come in third.

[Michael]

Yeah, no, that was. I thought that was an interesting race because, I mean, poor Jack Schlossberg was, you know, had, had sort of been a social media gadfly. I mean, actually he seemed like a kind of a social media crazy person and, and then stepped forward on the basis of his name to run for office. And, and I mean, I think I have two observations. He actually turned out to be an incredibly articulate, attractive sounding, Lefty, but moderate, but reasonable person in the campaign. I mean, I think he suffered from the fact that he was running as a Kennedy, but his name was Schlossberger.

[Joanna Scholes]

I was just gonna say the poor man. I mean, you have this name that should help you, but you can't use it.

[Michael]

Yeah, but, you know, but at the Same time. And he also suffered from the fact that he was young and he seemed to be the, you know, not quite grown up. But I thought he was actually pretty impressive. I think he has. He is the kind of, the kind of next generation social media political figure. You should hire him.

[Joanna Scholes]

We should hire him. Well, I did try to interview him and he declined our invitations, although he kept saying he would love to be interviewed us.

[Michael]

But he, I mean, he got, I mean, his campaign suffered. The New York Times killed him off and they killed him off with a single word, which is nap. He took a nap.

[Joanna Scholes]

He took a nap in an interview with the New York Times.

[Michael]

That's not a. Yeah, well, no, somebody said that he didn't. That he didn't. He. He was taking naps during the day and he was, you know, it was a bitch slap by the New York Times, which kind of, kind of killed him off. But I think you should hire him. And I think that there's another point too that should be made that actually Manhattan, home of the Richies, voted for the establishment candidate.

[Joanna Scholes]

I mean, they voted for Jerry Nadler's person, the person Nadler had backed.

[Michael]

Right. Jerry Nadler, really a mean piece of work. I once saw Jerry Nadler on the, you know, on the train to Washington, the Excela to Washington. Totally throw a, Throw a fit, berate the guy. You know, I mean, they give you those, they put those sandwiches in the microwave on the, on the Excela. So the guy is just, you know, he has, he's, he's. Jerry Nadler wants his cheese sandwich. I don't know. Something goes wrong with the way the cheese is melted in the microwave and he, Jerry Nadler rips it out of the cellophane and then throws it at the poor guy. Work in the microwave.

[Joanna Scholes]

Why do people do that? Especially, why did they do it on a train where someone could take, you know, film them doing that on their phone? All I can say is that that

[Michael]

would be called entitlement.

[Joanna Scholes]

Yeah, of course it's called entitlement. All I can say is that I've lived in, or I lived in Joke in Nadalus district for 18 years and I never once saw him. Although I do see Chuck Schumer. I feel like Chuck Schumer is.

[Michael]

I don't know how you could, you could have missed him. I mean, the guy was the fattest man in Congress.

[Joanna Scholes]

Was he the fattest man in Congress?

[Michael]

Oh, by a. By a long shot.

[Joanna Scholes]

Okay. Well, I never saw him at anything I went to. Whereas Chuck Schumer is More present on the scene. And my name now, Congressman Dan Goldman got booted out.

[Storytime with the Second Lady - Usha Vance]

Yeah.

[Joanna Scholes]

Booted out.

[Michael]

No, that was an interesting thing because Dan Goldman, a totally reasonably moderate professional,

[Joanna Scholes]

well, son of the Levi Strauss family. So I can imagine people building up a case against, you know, scions of billionaires.

[Michael]

So there is another issue here which is the Israel issue, which, which is relevant to the war in Iran. It's relevant to everything in politics at this point. And neither the Democrats nor the Republicans kind of know which way to turn on this. And how you play this issue is going to be obviously highly relevant to the midterms. And Dan Goldman is, I mean, probably the singular reason that he was. His singular vulnerability was to be relatively partial and not entirely partial, but relatively so to Israeli interests.

[Joanna Scholes]

Yeah. No, I mean, Gaza has become a

[Michael]

key

[Joanna Scholes]

platform for politicians. I mean, Tucker talks about it a lot and says it was definitely genocide. The US has been funding genocide by funding Israel and it's got to stop, which is also an interesting position for him to take.

[Michael]

Well, and it's also the Trump, I mean, Trump has gotten himself into a knot on this. Trump, who has been the, you know, the BB supporter for almost without, without question. And, you know, I mean, the, the, the Israelis have been able to do what they do because Trump has been the president. I mean, it is as though they have seized the opportunity. Bibi Netanyahu has seized the opportunity. There's a window open here and, and it's going to close as soon as Trump leave. So we're going to wipe out as many Palestinians as we possibly can given the Trump window.

[Joanna Scholes]

Do you think that when Trump hears Hillary Clinton or other representatives from previous administration saying, yes, Bibi Netanyahu tried to get us to do this, too. He was always trying to bamboozle us into going into Iran. And of course we said no, because we're not up for doing that. Do you think he feels foolish or do you think he just thinks.

[Michael]

Well, I don't think he feels rage and he is raging at Bibi Netanyahu at this point. So as he lashes out, one of the people he's lashing out at is Netanyahu.

[Joanna Scholes]

Netanyahu.

[Michael]

Now, I don't know if that. Can he, can he break that? Can he walk away from Netanyahu? I mean, that has other serious political implications for him. But that is, and that is from the MAGA thing. You know, as MAGA becomes not only more anti Israel, but more almost openly anti Semitic, this becomes a, I mean, how to deal with this, how the Republican Party deals with this, how Trump individually deals with this, and then how the Democrats deal with this. And the Democrats, the Mamdani Democrats, are not only anti Israel and often for good reason, but that threatens to veer into antisemitism, too.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, Tucker describes the relationship between Israel and America or Netanyahu and Trump as a master slave relationship just to throw gas on the fire.

[Michael]

Yeah, no, and that's totally. And that, I mean, we tread very. I mean, Tucker is an anti Semite. I mean, I mean, why pretend otherwise? And this adds to all of, all of this and it becomes, you know, anti, anti Goldman Sachs, Jeffrey Epstein. This is all bundled into the case against Israel and certainly is bundled into Tucker's case against Israel. Israel is a fifth column in the United States. Israel is the real power. Israel, through Epstein, yada, yada, yada, yada. But this is a serious political power. Now, this new narrative against Israel, which certainly has not been, I mean, you know, the Bibi thing, how could you have done this? If you're the Israeli leader and you are dependent, you understand that Israel is possible, has been possible because of the support of the United States of America. And yet you wade into the, you create a situation in which you create a political backlash in the United States that can, it very likely will change, if not break the relationship between the U.S. and Israel.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, and you had J.D. vance the other day telling Netanyahu, what are you doing? You shouldn't criticize Donald Trump. He is the only friend you've got left at this stage.

[Michael]

Yeah, that was a totally weird kind of, kind of JD Trying to. Trying to both praise Donald Trump and distance himself from Donald Trump. So I think JD Is also tied in knots over this.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, you know what? He's not tied in knots in appearing on my favorite podcast.

[Storytime with the Second Lady - Usha Vance]

Hello, I'm Usha Vance, and welcome back to Storytime with the Second Lady. I'm so excited to enjoy another great story together, because when we read, we grow. I know from personal experience that today's special reader loves to read to kids. That's because I see him read books to our own kids every day. That's right. Today's special reader is my husband, Vice President of the United States, Janie Vance. Thanks for joining us today, honey. Of course.

[Joanna Scholes]

Good to see you. Who knows if it was an effort to celebrate Father's Day or to boost your ratings? Ushavants had her husband come on. He came on in a suit. I actually think he was wearing the Florsheim shoes, the $148 black oxfords that Donald Trump gave him because they were very prominent in the video and actually it really did look like they were slightly too big for him. But to my absolute heartbreak, he read Winnie the Pooh, which really upset me because I love Winnie. Winnie the Pooh. I don't want to hear AA Milne's words come out of the lips of JD Vance. But nevertheless they did and it was just such a sort of strange and awkward and cringe conversation between the two of them. I do think that there is some subversion in it because at the end Usha always recommends that children go to their libraries and get out books. So you feel like good. She, she's still promoting libraries but there was a moment where she asks JD Vance how many stories he reads his children. And he reads his stories, his kids sort of two or three or up to four stories in the morning and then he reads some stories again at night. But his oldest child is now old enough to read their own stories. And you're like, who is watching this? And then there's a moment where he explains what the Vice President does and he talks about the being a diplomat and how he has to try and solve conflicts across the world and you're like, if this is for an eight year old child, which is what I'm assuming it's for because then he starts reading a children's story. Like who, who is watching this? Has any child ever watched this video? I don't think so. In fact, I'm going to have a little focus group of children round to my apartment. I'm going to make them watch it and I'm going to ask them what they think. That's what I'm to going, going to do. That's my promise. I'm going to find some children to watch story time with the second lady and report back on whether or not this works.

[Michael]

Do you know any children?

[Joanna Scholes]

I do know children actually. I have friends who've got grandchildren, I've got friends, male friends of course, who've got second families. Michael, you have a 10 year old and a five year old. You could ask them what they think of Ushavat.

[Michael]

This is both I do. And the five year old this morning graduated from Prince.

[Joanna Scholes]

Oh, congratulations. That's always a moment. Did they wear a sort of big, a big shirt? Did they borrow one of your white shirts for it?

[Michael]

No, he, but he was, he, he looked great, I must say. He had a white polo shirt and pressed blue shorts.

[Joanna Scholes]

Fantastic. Absolutely sweet. Well, Usha Vance, who's about to have their fourth baby, just looked Thoroughly uncomfortable. And she has her, her funny expression, which she says in a, in a somewhat threatening way, when we read, we grow. It's just, it's the weirdest, it's the weirdest podcast ever.

[Michael]

And we do we still have any estimation of what she's trying to accomplish in this? I mean, this is just to be, I mean, nobody watches this. This is just a, you know, it's a, this is kind of like, like make believe television. I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna pretend I'm on television. But I have an audience. A zero audience.

[Joanna Scholes]

A zero audience. And I have my first.

[Michael]

And I'm gonna tell you, the audience of one Donald Trump is certainly not watching this.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, and the interesting thing is she doesn't appear to have had any serious children's books authors on, because in theory, you would think that sitting down for story time with the, with the second lady possibly soon to be first lady, who knows?

[Michael]

Extremely unlikely in how, in any alignment of moon and stars.

[Joanna Scholes]

Okay. Well, you would think that possibly a children's book author might think this is a good opportunity. And yet so far, the guests have been people like J.D. vance and Cheryl Hines. Cheryl Hines, who when asked why she read the story of the Three Little pigs, said, I like pigs.

[Michael]

I, I'm flabbergasted. So I, I, you know, and I would interpret that this is somebody in the White House setting this up.

[Joanna Scholes]

Yeah, I guess, I guess.

[Michael]

I mean, this is somebody saying, this is mandated. Okay, you're going to do this. You're going to go on. And the guests this week are going to be, and she's doing this because she's, you know, because that's what a political wife has to do.

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, at least she's recommending libraries. And you know, Winnie the Pooh is a great children's book. He's a great, great writer. A.A. milne. Oh, well, Michael, we didn't get to lots of things I thought we were going to get to. We haven't got to Lee Greenwood, we haven't got to the fourth of July celebrations, but we've still got to.

[Michael]

Yeah, no, and I mean, I've spent a lot of time watching Lee Greenwood, so I want to do that because it's really kind of extraordinary. I mean, of all, almost every Trump event that I have been to, and I've been to way too many at this point, there's suddenly Lee Greenwood, who is as old as old can be, just always kind of pushed out there and you think, is he gonna make it?

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, let's hope he doesn't collapse during the July 4th celebrations.

[Michael]

No, no. Let's hope he does.

[Joanna Scholes]

No, don't say that. We never want to wish someone to collapse. But is he older than the present president? He is older than the president. Right.

[Michael]

That's just your, your, your public, your public face. You love it when people collapse. Everybody loves it when people collapse, especially people who deserve to collapse.

[Joanna Scholes]

All right, well, we've got plenty of time to talk about Lee Greenwood before the fourth of July, if you have been. Thank you for joining us. We love to have you. And, Michael, do you want to thank everybody? I think I must remind you, but

[Michael]

I want to come back. I want to come back with the Ellison family's big $45 million bribe. But let's not do this. We'll come back next episode. 45. What does $45 million get you?

[Joanna Scholes]

Well, we know what it gets them. It gets them TikTok, and it gets them CBS and It gets them CNN.

[Michael]

Yes. $45 million gets you from Donald Trump. Anything you want.

[Joanna Scholes]

Okay.

[Mint Mobile Advertiser]

Okay.

[Michael]

Thank you, Ryan, Heather, Rachel, John and Neil. That was pretty good.

[Joanna Scholes]

So the good news is we have so many Beast Tier members now, there are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support.