I Know Why Trump Is in His Shameless Cash Grab Era

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Daily Beast Podcast

Episode: "I Know Why Trump Is in His Shameless Cash Grab Era"

Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: Michael
Date: June 3, 2026

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Overview

This episode dives into Donald Trump’s current “cash grab” phase, examining his overt opportunism, reactions inside the Republican Party to his latest schemes, the ongoing fallout from scandals (personal, political, and sexual), foreign policy chaos, and the health of the president. Host Joanna Coles, joined by regular commentator Michael, explore not only the mechanics of Trump’s grift but also broader topics including the state of US politics, diversity in the military, vaccine skepticism, and the intersection of scandal and electability.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Latest Grift: The IRS Slush Fund Scheme

[00:00–06:18]

• Trump proposed a $1.8 billion “settlement” with the IRS that would give him, his family, and January 6th defendants tax forgiveness and legal immunity.
• This was seen as an unprecedented “grab”—a grift where Trump and allies didn’t even attempt subtlety.
• The blatant nature was so extreme that even Congressional Republicans balked.
• Quote:

  “This was a grift beyond just. This was just a grab in which they didn't even care. That's the moment in which this came tumbling down.” – Michael [00:00]

• The Republican pushback marks a rare rebuke and prompts speculation about Trump’s next attempted scheme.

2. The Grifter’s Creed and Republican Calculations

[06:18–10:46]

• Trump’s response to pushback: simply moves on to the next scheme—testing how far he can go, “what he can get away with.”
• His self-interest in control over the Republican Party may even supersede winning majorities.
• The party’s tolerance is a continuous calculation of his “strength, shamelessness, and nuttiness.”
• Quote:

  “He runs this government. This government offers all kinds of opportunities... what’s the opportunity that they can get away with.” – Michael [00:06:15]

• Joanna raises the question: Does this mean Republicans can push back without fear? Or do they risk retribution?

3. Trump, Netanyahu, and the Iran War Quagmire

[11:09–15:56]

• Reports circulate (via Axios) about Trump’s furious, expletive-filled call with Israeli PM Netanyahu, blaming him for sabotaging an Iran deal.
• Trump’s original “No Forever Wars” stance has morphed as he finds himself unable to disentangle the US from ongoing Middle Eastern conflicts.
• Quote:

  “So what's the headline here? It is the no Forever Wars President is now in a forever war. He cannot get out of it, no matter what he does.” – Michael [11:31]

• Joanna observes that Iran (and others) simply “want to humiliate America,” and Michael remarks how easily Trump is “played” in negotiations.
• Trump’s need to blame others (Netanyahu, Rubio) is a recurring pattern:

  “Always. Somebody in Donald Trump's world has to be blamed so that it is clear it is not Donald Trump who is being blamed.” – Michael [15:42]

4. Trump’s “I Don’t Care” Era: Golf, Social Media, and Apathy

[17:13–20:23]

• Trump projects apathy: “I don’t care about the midterms, about the economy, about Iran.”
• His hectic Truth Social posting (up to 27 times daily) contrasts with his relaxed and frequent golf outings.
• Quote:

  “It's actually an interesting contrast between the frenzy, the posting frenzy and then going out on the golf course.” – Michael [18:10]

• Discussion of Trump’s odd priorities and the performance art of “detachment.”

5. Anecdotes: Planes and Public Image

[20:23–23:28]

• Joanna’s favorite anecdote: Trump forced to fly on Jeffrey Epstein’s old plane after a breakdown, panics and yells, “I’m going to die on Jeffrey Epstein’s plane.”
• Emphasis on Trump’s obsession with personal branding; he disliked using a generic charter jet due to the lack of “TRUMP” signage.

6. RFK Jr., Anti-Vax Politics, and the Consequences

[24:04–27:08]

• Rising cases of preventable disease tied to RFK Jr.’s anti-vaccination influence; turmoil at the Dept. of Health.
• Trump’s personal fascination with RFK Jr. for the Kennedy brand allure:

  “He really would have liked RFK to have been his vice president and not JD Vance.” – Michael [24:10]

• The anti-vax stance is growing less politically tolerable as public health effects hit home.

7. Mounting Scandals: Health, Leadership Changes, and Diversity Rollbacks

Trump’s Health & Transparency

[28:50–32:56]

• Trump reportedly gaining weight (14 lbs), with no official health updates released.
• Speculation about medication: perhaps he discontinued GLP-1 drugs, leading to weight gain.
• Quote:

  “It’s a body struggling against itself.” – Michael [30:31]

Leadership Turmoil: Tulsi Gabbard out, Bill Pulte in

[32:56–37:11]

• Tulsi Gabbard replaced as intelligence head by Bill Pulte (a housing exec with no intelligence experience), allegedly because he targets Trump’s enemies via mortgage technicalities.
• Quote:

  “Just when you think that Trump couldn't find any more inappropriate, unqualified, moronic people to fill the jobs around him, he does find someone.” – Michael [33:51]

• Pulte’s family, prominent homebuilders, publicly distance themselves.

Military Promotions & Increased Exclusion

[37:11–41:08]

• No women and only two nonwhite officers promoted in the latest Navy list, despite women representing 21% of the force.
• Discussion on rollback of DEI initiatives and the open embrace of anti-diversity sentiment.
• Quote:

  “Once you cross that line, everything begins to change... within Trump orbit, this is a very real thing.” – Michael [40:48]

8. The Enigma of Melania Trump and the Epstein Connection

[42:08–46:48]

• An accusation surfaces on X (formerly Twitter) that Melania Trump met Donald via Jeffrey Epstein, echoing long-standing rumors and fueling gossip.
• Michael notes Melania’s mysterious personal history, saying she’s “worked very hard to keep a mystery," avoiding telling her story even when offered an Amazon movie deal.
• Lawsuits around Melania’s past are ongoing.

9. Sex Scandals and Shifting Standards in Politics

[47:44–51:13]

• Joanna plans to follow up on a string of sexual scandals among Republicans and Democrats, referencing Democratic candidate Graham Platner (Sexting) and the normalization of such scandals.
• Reference back to Anthony Weiner; Michael suggests that public tolerance for digital misdeeds may have increased.
• Quote:

  “It may now be that everybody has texted something embarrassing... an unexpected level of tolerance.” – Michael [49:38]

• Discussion of whether sexual scandal is still a political career-ender or not.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “That's the grifter's creed... what I can get away with.” – Joanna [08:35]
• “He gets to do whatever he wants, and nobody can pin him down.” – Michael [20:06]
• “I'm going to die on Jeffrey Epstein's plane.” – Donald Trump, paraphrased by Michael [23:11]
• “Of a time. But he’s currently the president of a modern country... at least a half modern country.” – Joanna & Michael [42:02]
• “It’s a body struggling against itself... is it more likely than not that one day he doesn’t wake up?” – Michael [30:31/31:00]
• “Imagine working for the CIA or FBI and having to deal with this guy who knows nothing about what they’re doing—it’s incredible.” – Joanna [37:15]
• “The more embarrassment, the more chance you have of escaping the embarrassment.” – Michael [50:06]

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Key Timestamps for Reference

• [00:00] – Trump’s IRS grift and political opportunism
• [03:44] – Congressional pushback, “jump the shark” moment
• [06:18] – Grifter’s creed, Republican responses
• [11:09] – Trump, Netanyahu, and the Iran war
• [14:02] – Trump’s expletive-filled call with Netanyahu
• [17:13] – Trump’s golf obsession and “I don’t care” posture
• [20:23] – Epstein plane anecdote
• [24:04] – RFK Jr. in Trump’s orbit, ramifications for public health
• [28:50] – Trump’s health and media avoidance
• [32:56] – Gabbard replaced by Bill Pulte, cronyism explored
• [37:11] – Navy promotions, DEI rollbacks
• [42:08] – Melania Trump’s past, viral rumors
• [47:44] – Sex scandals, normalization, and political consequences

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Closing

The episode paints Trump as deeply transactional and relentlessly self-interested, immune to shame or constraint—embodying the "shameless cash grab era.” Joanna and Michael provide sharp, witty banter, combining breaking news with insightful, sometimes darkly humorous analysis of the week’s dramas in American politics.

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Next Episode: Sex and politics—Joanna promises to return to this theme, signaling continued focus on the intersection of personal scandal and public office.

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For more episodes: Subscribe via thedailybeast.com.

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(Summary skips ads/housekeeping and focuses exclusively on the substantive conversation.)

Transcript

[Michael]

This was a grift beyond just. This was just a grab in which they didn't even care. That's the moment in which this came tumbling down. Part of what is going on now is he's figuring out what he gets, what he can get. He runs this government. This government offers all kinds of opportunities, so they have to figure out what's the opportunity that they can get away with.

[Joanna]

It's just pure opportunistic grift.

[Michael]

What he can get away with, what

[Joanna]

he can get away with.

[Michael]

That's the grifter's creed. Michael, are we rolling? Joanna?

[Joanna]

We are. You've got. What's happening. I'm confused. You've got patterns on. I'm not used to you coming in with patterns.

[Michael]

Summer.

[Joanna]

Oh, it's summer. Patterns. Summer. Okay, so it's giving me a kind of cornfield vibe.

[Michael]

Well, my 10 year old daughter said it was giving her a kind of a Nazi vibe.

[Joanna]

Oh, interesting. That's impressive that she knows the Nazi symbolism, even if Graham Platner does not.

[Michael]

Yes.

[Joanna]

Yeah. And he got tattooed with it. Nevertheless, I like Graham Platner's energy.

[Michael]

Well. And do you like his texts?

[Joanna]

I haven't read the text.

[Michael]

Has he texted you?

[Joanna]

He definitely hasn't texted me, though we did have him on the Daily Beast podcast and I really enjoyed talking to him. And at the time we had him, he was in Norway with his wife. She can weigh in on the texts because they were having IVF in Norway because it's $5,000 there, as opposed to $25,000 here.

[Michael]

Well, let's.

[Joanna]

I want to remind people that he's the Democratic candidate running for the Senate seat in Maine, where he might upset Su Collins.

[Michael]

Indeed. But I want to come back to this because it gets to. The sex in politics story is a story that is more and more prevalent, perhaps more and more unavoidable. And.

[Joanna]

And it's equal opportunity. Right.

[Michael]

And often more interesting than politics.

[Joanna]

Definitely, definitely. And the Democrats are failed by it just as much as the Republicans. Are they.

[Michael]

Yeah, I have to go. But I think it's. Well, except for Donald Trump, who it should have failed, but it managed to actually elect. Which is another interesting thing about this, that maybe the Democrats have this wrong and maybe.

[Joanna]

Maybe they should all be having more sex than that.

[Michael]

Exactly. I mean, there's a thing. But let's come back to that.

[Joanna]

We have to start by asking people to subscribe. That's where we have to start. Call to action, it's called in podcast parlance. And because we're independent media, we need people's support. We need people to subscribe. We're determined to get to 1 million subscribers. So if you haven't subscribed, please hit that subscribe button.

[Michael]

I keep asking you what to subscribe gets anyone.

[Joanna]

Well, it gets notifications for when the episodes are dropping because we may end up dropping episodes.

[Michael]

It does get notifications because I've got your switch off.

[Joanna]

I think you have your screen.

[Michael]

I don't get notifications.

[Joanna]

Okay. It gets you extra bits of content. There are.

[Michael]

Sure. And it gets that notification.

[Joanna]

Yes. As people have commented frequently. Michael, you've just switched the bell off. There's a little bell thing that you press, but depending on the tier of subscription, you get extra content. We start with the Trump screaming and swearing at Bibi Netanyahu that Netanyahu is in the way of Trump getting a deal with the Iranians.

[Michael]

I think that that's in the, I mean, the Iranian thing is still the major thing in the middle of this presidency. So let's just put that off a little because I think it really has to. We have to devote a little time to that. But let's do the slush fund because I think it's an interesting moment in which he's been told and basically it's his party that has told him no way. And so I think that obviously prompts the question what's going on in his head. I mean, he has been bitch slapped on this one. I mean, the whole thing is preposterous to begin with. I mean, you can't even. This may be a jump the shark moment.

[Joanna]

I mean, there's so many jump the shark moments. There's so many. But is this because he said, I, I don't care about the midterms. And they're like, well, we care about the midterms. We're up for election.

[Michael]

Yeah, well, of course. But I think it is also that this is more preposterous than even the usual preposterousness.

[Joanna]

Right.

[Michael]

You know, so he sued himself. You know, he sued the irs, which is effectively suing himself. And then he settled with the irs, which is effectively settling with himself.

[Joanna]

Right.

[Michael]

And the settlement was the, this $1.8 billion fund which would be paid out to his supporters effectively.

[Joanna]

Right.

[Michael]

And then on top of that, including

[Joanna]

the January 6th protesters.

[Michael]

Yes. And then on top of that, he gets, which no one else in the country gets, tax forgiveness and his family immunity. He and his family get, I mean, the last people, I mean, the people who are, who the entire tax system really, if you think about it, the whole tax system is meant to supervise people like Donald Trump because they will cheat otherwise. Duh. So, but, no, but this settlement means that he and his family get immunity from the tax laws. So. The entire country, plus the people, the people in Congress, the Republicans in Congress said, oh, my God, he's really gone too far. Oh my God moment.

[Joanna]

Right. And particularly the Senate, I think. I mean, I think John Thune was going around telling people behind closed doors, this is not gonna happen under my watch.

[Michael]

Yeah. You know, and it's this, it's this thing that this is adding up. The grift becomes a significant issue. And this was a grift beyond just. This was just a grab in which they didn't even care. So that's the moment in which this came tumbling down. But the interesting thing is what's in Trump's head about this and what's in Trump's head about. About this? And I was poking the people I know who are close to this. What's he, you know, what's going on? And this is what they said, well, it's back to the drawing board. And I said, well, what does that mean? Then they said, what do you think it means? And I said, come on, come on. And he's going. Part of what is going on now is he's figuring out what he gets, what he can get. The idea that he has been chastened by this is totally not true, right? It is, it is. There are. He runs this government. This government offers all kinds of opportunities. So they have to figure out what's the opportunity that they can get away with.

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[Joanna]

3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month. Required intro rate, first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] so basically he's just introducing things and then if someone says no, that's too much. He's like, okay, on to the next. Basically, it's just pure opportunistic grift.

[Michael]

What he can get away with, what he can get away with, that's the grifter's creed.

[Joanna]

So that's the grifter's creed, what I can get away with. So is this a lesson for Republican politicians that actually you can push back and he just goes back to the drawing board or do you think he will be now he's got people in his sights for more retribution because we know that he's motivated by that.

[Michael]

Yeah, it's much more easy for me to get into his head than it is to get into the Republicans heads. I mean, what have they been thinking about for 10 years now? And I think this is a constant measurement on their part of his strength and his shamelessness and his nuttiness too. I mean, does he come after, I mean he goes after them at the expense of himself and his party. I mean.

[Joanna]

Well, that's what's so crazy that he goes after people. I mean, witness possibly Ken Paxton. I mean, definitely he's now going to be the candidate. Whether or not he wins is another matter in Texas, obviously after being.

[Michael]

No, but what he did there, and specifically he had a significantly safer candidate in Texas, a Republican, a largely a Republican who voted the Trump way almost all of the time. And yet he went with this other person who makes that seat significantly more vulnerable.

[Joanna]

Well, and he said out loud, I don't care about the midterms.

[Michael]

Yes, but nobody believes that he doesn't care about the midterms. Quite the opposite. He, he obviously cares about the midterms or he cares about casting them even in some further demonstration of his control over the Republican Party. I mean, it is almost that. And yes, you can say, actually you might be able to deconstruct this and say I don't care about the midterms. What I care about is control over the Republican Party.

[Joanna]

Right.

[Michael]

I don't care if I lose. I don't care if you're in the minority, just as long as I control that minority. And I think that's a plausible way to see this. And it's probably half true, but it doesn't really account for what's going to happen to him if all he does is control a minority party.

[Joanna]

Okay, so what's inside his head about Bibi Netanyahu? Axios had this story that dropped on Monday saying there had been an expletive filled conversation with Donald Trump basically screaming at the Israeli prime Minister. Just saying, what are you doing?

[Michael]

Well, I think you have to go back to what's inside his head about the war.

[Joanna]

Okay.

[Michael]

I mean, remember, we're now sort of back to war. Sort of. Not really.

[Joanna]

Well, we're 13 weeks in.

[Michael]

Yes. I mean this still goes on, but we're actually, you know, we've had a couple of weeks of at least respite from. From expending munitions, but we now seem to be surgically back to bombing them. He's in a war which he cannot get out of. So what's the headline here? It is the no Forever Wars. President is now in a forever war. He cannot get out of it, no matter what he does. And it is as though the Iranians are trapping him in it. I mean, they're the ones, you would think, obviously, they want to get this out of there. They want a deal. They want to not be bombed. They want to put their country back together. But no, what they want to do is bedevil Donald Trump.

[Joanna]

Well, and I think they want to humiliate America. Death to America. Is that true? Right.

[Michael]

Yeah. And I'm not even sure that I think in their minds if I got into the heads of the Iranians.

[Joanna]

Please don't. Please don't go into the Mueller's head. We'll never hear the end of it.

[Michael]

That they have this mark there, Donald Trump, he is so easy to play. You know, I remember in, you know, when you see, when you speak to people in New York who dealt with Trump over all those years, you know, and that was always this, you know, he's a great deal maker. You know, that was. And that was always. People regarded that as a great. People who knew him as a great joke because he was a terrible deal maker because he was so easy to read. He just did the same thing over and over again. He just signaled everything. So. And I think that's what the Iranians see now. So he is stuck now. It becomes who to blame. Is he going to blame Bibi, who deserves certainly a portion of some of this blame, and he does seem to be. Yeah, I mean, I would say. I would say he's kind of. He's kind of right.

[Joanna]

So according to reports, Trump yelled at him, you're fucking crazy. You'd be in prison if it weren't for me. I'm saving your ass. Everybody hates you now. Everybody hates Israel because of this, because of the bombing in Lebanon. And he says it's what's in the way of him getting a great deal done with Iran because Iran's like, well, we're not gonna do a deal with you while this is going on.

[Michael]

Right. And again, this is just the blame part of exercise. Iran is not going to do a deal with him because they don't have to do a deal with him because they are the longer they take to do a deal, the more they win, the more their leverage increases. So, yeah, I mean, Netanyahu, I mean, if we go back to this, why did this war begin? It began because Bibi Netanyahu convinced Donald Trump that this would be a cakewalk. And so it is. I mean, Netanyahu is probably saying it's worth it to get reamed out by Donald Trump if in exchange, I got the United States to go to war against Iran.

[Joanna]

Right. Something he has tried to get presidents before Trump to do, all of whom have turned down the opportunity. And of course, he's got an election coming up in Israel later this fall. So this is good for him. It's not good for Donald Trump. So their interests completely are misaligned at this point.

[Michael]

Yeah, but we should think about this and keep our eye on who is blamed. Always. Somebody in Donald Trump's world has to be blamed so that it is clear it is not Donald Trump who is being blamed.

[Joanna]

Right. It's not his fault.

[Michael]

So. And one of the things I think. I think Marco Rubio comes into the blame frame.

[Joanna]

Okay, so Marco Rubio, who as we speak, is facing a select image, or he's arguing for his budget for the State Department. So you think he's going to get blamed. And I think JD Vance is already being blamed, isn't he? I mean, he was dispatched to Pakistan to try and do a peace talk. He came straight back. Because he got no right.

[Michael]

No. And actually, Rubio is up now. He's up in Trump's estimation.

[Joanna]

Is he up in Trump's estimation, or is he up in everybody else's estimation, which means he goes down in Trump's estimation.

[Michael]

Well, that will happen. It hasn't happened yet. Okay, but it is going to happen. You're right. Yes.

[Joanna]

You say I was right. Can you just say it one more time? This never happens. It never happens. That you say I'm right.

[Michael]

Well, that's what they call chemistry.

[Joanna]

Oh, is it what they call chemistry? All right, well, I'm banking it. I'm banking it. All right, so Marco Rubio's doing his thing, arguing for a huge State Department budget. And Trump, meanwhile, is also saying he's bored of the Iranian talks. It's boring. It's boring, Tim. It's boring. He'd rather be on the Gulf.

[Michael]

No. Right. So that's in this new theme that has come up. The I don't care president. I don't care about the midterms. I don't care about the economy. I don't care about the war in Iran. What do you care about?

[Joanna]

He cares about golf. He's played golf 26 times this year. And do you know what? We have an excellent piece by Josh Fialo and the Daily Beast today. Counting. We're now monitoring the number of truth social posts that Donald Trump is sending out. He's now sending out 27 truth social posts a day. That's what he averaged out on in May. It's the biggest number of truth posts he's done. And it's as if it's his sort of way of signaling to the world. He's completely frenzied and panicked and spiraling. And they're all sent out in the middle of the night. He doesn't sleep. The man doesn't sleep. He doesn't get more than two hours sleep in a row. We know that he's sleeping.

[Michael]

It's actually an interesting contrast between the frenzy, the posting frenzy and then going out on the golf course.

[Joanna]

Right.

[Michael]

So it is as though, you know, going out on the golf course, it's like, I really don't care. The posts mean I am.

[Joanna]

I'm spiraling. Yeah, I'm spiraling. I'm on my own, I'm anxious.

[Michael]

I just wanna make a point about the gulf, because it is really, this is fundamental to who Trump is and during the. During the campaign, the 2024 campaign. So running for president is one of the most spectacularly difficult, demanding things that you can do. And remember, Trump was not the president. He's a candidate. He's out there. He can't really be, you know, like anyone in the White House. And you can do the Rose Garden strategy. Well, the Rose Garden, which no longer exists. You can't. If you're a candidate, you're out there. You're out there constantly. I mean, it's so bad that actually there's something wrong with it, because by the time you actually, if you do win, by the time you win your fin, you're dead. But Trump, every day of the campaign that he was in Mar A Lago, which was most days, started with 18 holes of golf.

[Joanna]

So what are you saying? That that's what grounds him, that's what resets him?

[Michael]

I don't know what I'm saying, except that it's wholly anomalous. His relationship to this job is different from any other professional politician's relationship to this job. And I think it's more, again, it's more dominant. It's more, I can do whatever I want to do.

[Joanna]

Right, Right.

[Michael]

I mean, there is that thing. That's that. That fundamental thing, you know, you can't hold me to account. I do what I want to do. Don't. Don't even try to pin me down or make me follow your rules.

[Joanna]

Right. Can you just tell me my favorite anecdote from the campaign trail, which is when he's on the plane and they discover that the plane he's on because his own plane has broken down again, because it's an old plane that he's actually on Jeffrey Epstein's plane. It's just my favorite anecdote of the entire campaign. Just for people who haven't heard this anecdote, regular people, regular viewers and listeners will know it, and I think we'll enjoy the retelling. We don't have to dwell on it. But it's such an interesting anecdote.

[Michael]

They're on their way from Montana, and now I forget where. Are they going to Salt Lake City or are they going to Colorado?

[Joanna]

I think they're going to Colorado.

[Michael]

Yes. His plane. One of the themes of the campaign was his plane breaking down all the time, which is why he got this plane from the Qatarians. This was the new one, the new

[Joanna]

plane, the $400 million plane.

[Michael]

He's just obsessed with this fact, and it made him crazy. And no one in the staff would know what to do. Oh, my God, the plane is down again. And then he would, on various occasions, whoever was responsible, the engineer, the maintenance guy, fired on the spot. So at any rate, they're in Montana, the plane is broken. They have to get a new plane, a charter plane that's brought in. And one of the reasons he doesn't want a charter plane is because the charter plane doesn't have the right signage. The signage is so fundamentally important to him. So a generic plane. Oh, my God.

[Joanna]

Because the point is to have Trump on the side of the plane as it comes down and as it takes off.

[Michael]

Exactly. And that's always used as a stage set. His news conferences are against the background of the plane that says Trump. Very, very, very large letters. Anyway, they have to get this new plane. The plane comes in, they're on the plane. It's a very, very bad trip.

[Joanna]

So it's turbulent.

[Michael]

Yeah. Some of the people I know on the plane said, really, this is the worst trip that. And these are people on planes all the time. This is the worst trip that they've ever been on. Really heart and throat, thinking this could be it. And on this flight, this has happened, they're notified, and I guess maybe Press questions begin that they realize they're on Jeffrey Epstein's old plane, which by the way, Donald Trump has been on many, many times in its other incarnation. But the plane is anyway, shaking, rattling, going like this. And then Trump starts to scream, I'm going to die on Jeffrey Epstein's plane.

[Joanna]

It's such a good anecdote from the campaign. I'm so glad I wasn't on that plane. But fascinating anecdote. All right.

[Michael]

So available in my book, all or Nothing.

[Joanna]

All or nothing.

[Michael]

Just in case you wanna revisit the 2024 campaign.

[Joanna]

And I'm just going to remind people you've written four books on Donald Trump. Four books on Donald Trump with a variety of incredible sourcing. All right, so New York Times has a piece this morning just saying what we all know, which is that certain diseases are back on the rise because people aren't having vaccinations because RFK Jr. As you like to say, still Jr. At 72, is causing chaos at the Department of Health. Why is he still there? You predicted he would be gone by now.

[Michael]

Did I?

[Joanna]

Well, you predicted that he would at some point be gone. This isn't.

[Michael]

He's now a troublesome figure within the Trump orbit. I mean, the anti vax position is very unpopular. This is going to become more and more unpopular. The measles thing is becoming a real issue and a real personal threat to a lot of people. So, yeah, I think they're caught here. I mean, Trump, Trump has this attachment to RFK Jr because of the name Kennedy. I mean, it's a real emotional thing. I mean, he really would have liked RFK to have been his vice president and not JD Vance.

[Joanna]

And why didn't that happen? Interesting. That's the first time I've heard you say that, that he wanted RFK as his number two.

[Michael]

Oh, yeah. A long kind of. I mean, this was. I mean, Trump would go around saying this and make people say, I just want you to say it. Trump, Kennedy. How does that sound? Trump, Kennedy.

[Joanna]

Well, we know how it sounds on the side of the Kennedy Center. It sounds like it's only gonna be Kennedy again.

[Michael]

Exactly. And then he would go. This went on for quite a number of weeks. I think he's gonna do. I think we can get him to do it. I think we can get him to do it. And then the reason that it stopped, I mean, I think there are probably other reasons and other people would have stopped it and it would have been clear that this was, that this was probably a non starter. But Kennedy Stopped it.

[Joanna]

Kennedy said, I don't want to be your vice president.

[Michael]

Yeah. I mean he, and that was still at the moment when he was running for president. Okay, so. And I don't know if he assumed that this wasn't real or I don't know the circumstances from his side, but the circumstances from the Trump side were that Trump was, this was a real moment of enthusiasm bordering on obsession. So, and so at any rate, there's that and then there's the fact that they do believe in, within Trump circles, they think that RFK Jr. Has a very, a direct, he's a, has a direct hold on the anti vaxxers within the MAGA base, which is a very potent base. And for them to get rid of RFK Jr. And say, okay, that's another one of those Trump, I made a mistake things, which he is never going to say still, I think that they may have to at some point.

[Joanna]

Well, and also it's one of those things that takes time to play out because just because people stop having vaccinations, it takes time for diseases to come back. Right. But now it's very clear that the numbers in various diseases are rising.

[Michael]

And that about a lot of things is a kind of good metaphor because you make these decisions at the time and then they are revealed or their effects are revealed incrementally. In other words, even the New York Times has this story. We're still not, most of the country's not feeling this yet. There's not A lot of this stuff takes a long time to sink in, even Trump stuff. This is bad. This is ridiculous. This is preposterous. And yet that's still an abstraction. When does it hit? Now, I think some of this Trump stuff is hitting. We're seeing this, I mean, we're seeing certainly in terms of, in terms of the health stuff that we're starting to see, obviously the immigration stuff. And you know, and it's not just people, it's not just the videos, but more and more people hear actual personal stories of things that are happening to people they know or the people they know know, good people are being destroyed by this.

[Joanna]

Right. And gas prices, people, low gas prices. Yes, right. That's the thing that's really become the most immediate threat to him, I think, is the, you know, they've risen by 30%.

[Michael]

Yeah. No, and that is, I mean, that is then the literal manifestation of the war. And it's an interesting thing that the war, the calculation of the war is not in people killed, but in the price of the Gas pump.

[Joanna]

Right, right. Okay, so what about his health? When we talked last, he had been back to Walter Reed. He keeps referring to the fact that he's just had an incredible ace passing of the tests they've been given to him. We haven't actually had any report from the hospital. Sean Barber, Bella, his doctor has said nobody's ever seen presidential health like this. At the same time, of course, we've got Jill Biden out promoting her book about the ailing Joe Biden. Why do you think we haven't had a report from the hospital?

[Michael]

For those people who listening on audio, my expression is now a morden deadpan.

[Joanna]

Right.

[Michael]

The answer is obvious because he's a mess. Because this is an 80 year old obese man who doesn't get a lick of exercise and who has a negative health diet. So what is he? I mean, we can see his extremities filling up with fluid. There's a 14 pound weight gain. His blood pressure has got to be up, which means they're increasing his blood pressure. Medication means that he's waking up dizzy. It's a calamity. I mean, we can see this. It's a body struggling against itself, a

[Joanna]

failing body, a body struggling against itself. What an image.

[Michael]

I think in the people around him are aware of this. I mean, aware of it in really, in an existential sense. Is it possible, is it more likely than not or as likely as not that just one day he doesn't wake up?

[Joanna]

Right. When we asked viewers, when we asked listeners, everybody was like, I don't care if he survives the presidency. Can we survive it? Can America survive it?

[Michael]

Yeah, no, I mean, well, that is the question. I mean a different question, but yes, but let me come back to the weight thing because you flagged the 14 pound weight gain now and he refers to, you know, fat drugs. Okay. During the campaign there was, there was a whole set of people who, I was speaking to people who kind of denizens of the Mar A Lago terrace. And they were good sources of information because these are people who hung out on the terrace basically because Trump was there. Because that was a way to get close to Trump, because that was a way to get information about Trump. And so among these people, a handful of people absolutely, absolutely assured me that he was on GLP1s, which would explain the weight gain. If he was on them and then

[Joanna]

he went off them, why would he come off them? Because they didn't agree with him. I mean, they're not always straightforward. They can give you stomach up.

[Michael]

I Don't know. I'm just saying that there's a plausible reason, because you're right, that a 14 pound weight gain within basically the last time he was in the. We got a report, a physical report, which wasn't that long ago, six months ago, is a lot of weight.

[Joanna]

And it's a lot of weight for someone at that age. Normally at that age. I mean, it also their appetites are

[Michael]

getting less retaining fluid. It's not good news. Actually, the GLP1 explanation is probably the better news than the alternatives.

[Joanna]

Okay, so this morning we woke up to the news that he's replacing Tulsi Gabbard, who. Who left because her husband has got cancer as head of intelligence with a man called.

[Michael]

Okay, but. Yeah, but let me just say literally nobody believes that she left because she was pushed out.

[Joanna]

Right. And she left because she wasn't really involved in any of the decisions that required the head of intelligence be involved. Right. I think she posted pictures of herself doing Warrior 1 or Warrior 2 yoga pose on the beach in Hawaii as the bombs were beginning to drop in Iran. Because she didn't even know about it, is my understanding. Anyway, she is being replaced by a man called Bill Pulte, who's head of the National Housing thing.

[Michael]

Right.

[Joanna]

Do we care? Yeah.

[Michael]

Well, no. I mean, I think it's interesting because just when you think that Trump couldn't find any more inappropriate, unqualified, moronic people to fill the jobs around him, he does find someone.

[Joanna]

Right? Right. Enter Bill Pulte.

[Michael]

Yeah. So this guy, and it's interesting what he is noted for within the Trump circle and what Trump. And the reason Trump has singled him out for affection and elevation is that he has used the mortgage laws in banking. The banking, the relationship you have with your bank when you get a mortgage and the technicalities of that relationship to go after Trump enemies. He loves this.

[Joanna]

Right. So he did this with Tish James. Right. Cause she's got two homes. And he went after saying that she claimed one as a primary residence, when in fact it was the other. And she had a niece staying there. Right. And then it sort of got thrown out.

[Michael]

And also the woman on the Federal Reserve, Lisa Cook. Boom, there you go.

[Joanna]

On the board of the Fed.

[Michael]

That's a very flexible mind you got there.

[Joanna]

I hope so. I hope so. Although I'm still struggling with names.

[Michael]

God.

[Joanna]

Cotton School tomato. What was the other one? White pants. No, not pants. Leg. Leg, not pants.

[Michael]

So, yes, that's his contribution. That has been his singular contribution to the Trump government.

[Joanna]

So retribution for Trump's enemies.

[Michael]

So. And that was if you do this, if you align yourself with his mission to go after his enemies, you're really gold. And we should come back to Todd Blanche on that.

[Joanna]

But the point about Bill Pulty is that he's incredibly loyal and he's been egging Trump on to go after his enemies. Correct.

[Michael]

I mean, I would.

[Joanna]

No, yeah, we don't need to egg him on.

[Michael]

No, you don't need to go. He's found ways. That's what his usefulness. Okay, let's go. We can do this. These mortgage things, you know, if you look at the fine print, we can get anybody. And so that's delightful to Trump. But the other interesting thing about this guy, also, we should point out that he has no experience in the intelligence community at all. Nothing. Completely unqualified. And in that vein, it's interesting that he comes. His family is a major family in, in the housing industry.

[Joanna]

Right? In building housing, right.

[Michael]

Yes. And they have thrown him out. They keep disavowing. He's not in my. And he keeps trying to use that as a major credential, professional credential. And the family keeps saying, no, no, no, no, he's not involved. We don't have anything to do with him. He doesn't speak for us.

[Joanna]

Right. He's not on the board. Nothing to do with the company anymore.

[Michael]

Right, Right. Nothing to do. Not us. Never heard of the guy.

[Joanna]

Well, you've heard of him. Now he's back. The relative you spurned is back running the intelligence services. I mean, it's just incredible. Imagine working for the CIA or the FBI and having to deal with this guy who knows nothing, nothing about what they're doing. I mean, it's incredible. It's incredible. All right, so Pete Hegseth is busy blocking women rising in the, in the military. What do we think about this?

[Michael]

Not just women, Women and black people. Black men who are in the chain of command and who are expecting promotion and by any other normal moment would be promoted.

[Joanna]

Right. So no female officers were included on the new one star list, which was released last week, despite the fact that women make up 21% of the active duty Navy and the list includes only two non white officers.

[Michael]

So this is in other words. But the background, this is pro forma. This is a population of colonel. These are all colonels and who then come up with. For promotion.

[Joanna]

Right.

[Michael]

You know, the nature of the military is that, you know, you come up for promotion, you have to be. That's what happens. Or then you're kind of have to leave. So, so this is a lot of talent who have, who have risen to this point. You're not, you're not at the point of, of a promotion to a, to a general command unless you have.

[Joanna]

Well, unless you've done the work. Unless you've done the work. 38% of the Navy are non white and only 2 of them have been promoted.

[Michael]

Remember, this is a kind of policy within the Trump administration. DEI initiatives, diversity initiatives, we don't want that anymore.

[Joanna]

All of them have been canceled and public companies have had to drop diversity from their kind of homepages, all that stuff.

[Michael]

Right. And let's, there's a kind of, there's an argument that you can make that diversity DEI initiatives went too far and all of that. And the Trump administration has probably gotten some credit for doing that, for reining that in. But, but the line, and obviously, I mean, it's an important line between pro. Anti diversity. Anti diversity. Yeah, pro, Anti diversity and racism and misogyny. Once you cross that line, everything begins to change. And, and there is, you know, within that the Trump orbit. This is a very real thing. I mean, Stephen Miller, for instance, it is not hard to see that he is not just anti dei. Dei.

[Joanna]

Yeah, anti dei

[Michael]

and kind of, you know, whatever that rationale, he's a racist. I mean, he's a person. I mean, there is a deep seated, old fashioned, unreconstructed. We don't like people who are different from us.

[Joanna]

We don't like brown people.

[Michael]

Yeah. And this is, and I think Trump, I mean, Trump is. I've sort of seen this in action and I've certainly spoken to a lot of people around Trump who don't feel that, who don't feel, who are not in themselves racist and are kind of like. And then the question is, is Trump a racist? Is Trump an anti Semite? Is Trump a misogynist? And it always kind of goes, well, well, you know, you have to think of him as a kind of, you know, a guy from the 50s and 60s. So it's not really, he doesn't really hate people. I mean, this is, this is what people say. This is a kind of strangled rationale. But he's of a time. Of a time. And. Yeah, of a time. Of a time.

[Joanna]

Well, of a time. But he's currently president of a modern country.

[Michael]

Well, at least a half modern country. That's sort of the issue.

[Joanna]

Yeah, okay. Divided between a modern country and a country. So your friend Melania has been back in the news, or rather the ex girlfriend of Paolo Zampoli, the model agent, has been back in the news because she made an accusation on Elon Musk's Platform X saying that she knew about Melania's background with Jeffrey Epstein. The post that she put out there was immediately taken down, but by then it had taken off. And the conversation all over the web yesterday was that she, that Jeffrey Epstein had introduced Donald and Melania.

[Michael]

I think it was more pointed and explicit than that.

[Joanna]

Amanda n' Garo was the girlfriend of Paolo Zampoli. They had a trial together. She overstayed her visa. Somehow the immigration department found out about it. She has been. She went back to her native Brazil, but minus her child. And she's clearly extremely distressed about it. She's been posting significantly about it. Many people thought that her posts were the inspiration for Melania to come out and make her very peculiar speech a few weeks ago saying that she didn't know Jeffrey Epstein. She wasn't a friend of Jeffrey Epstein. She'd never really been in Jeffrey Epstein's world. Thoughts?

[Michael]

I mean, we can just read the quote. She says, let's tell the public, you never was the one introducing Melania to Trump. It was Jeffrey Epstein as she was escort of Jeffrey Epstein. That's how she met Donald Trump is what this woman says. And this woman who had been innate in quite a close relationship with Melania, were they roommates?

[Joanna]

Well, they were models at the same time. And there are plenty of photos of them at New Year hanging out with the Trumps, Paolo Zampoli and Donald Trump. And he's an ambassador for Trump. He issued a statement saying, I think it's a disgrace that she dares to say this about our marvelous First Lady.

[Michael]

You know, there's not a denial there. Just to note, that's what we used to call a non denial denial.

[Joanna]

Right. I will say Amanda Ungaro on the tape sounded like she could be under the influence of something. Drugs, drink, or just sheer distress at having lost access to her child.

[Michael]

Yeah, I don't know and I don't know this. I don't know anything about this woman. I don't know anything about that relationship. I don't know. But I do know that what she is speaking into, the sort of the black hole she's speaking into, is that nobody really knows about Melania Trump of how she got, of what she was doing in New York, how she got here, the terms of that, the terms of her employment. It's a mystery. And it's a mystery that she has Melania Trump has worked very, very hard to keep a mystery. You know, she's. Obviously, there is some vulnerability in whatever her. I guess you could. Her origin story is.

[Joanna]

Well, and the interesting thing, too, when she's given the opportunity to make the movie with Amazon, she makes it about the 20 days in the run up to the inauguration. She doesn't make it about what is, after all, an unbelievable immigrant story that you come to America. I mean, it's the ultimate in the American dream. You come as a young model and you end up as the first lady representing the United States. What an incredible story she chose not to tell. Right.

[Michael]

And you know, and I think probably for obvious reasons, I mean, the coming to New York in the 1990s as a model from Eastern Europe is a potentially likely. A pretty fraught story.

[Joanna]

So where is your case with Melania? We know got thrown out of federal court.

[Michael]

We'll have some news on this.

[Joanna]

Okay. Because I know that lots of people who supported you on GoFundMe are very invested in what happened.

[Michael]

No, no, I mean, it is this case. This case will certainly go on. And this is in no way. I mean, this is the process that goes on. And it's a process that we are wholly committed and wholly funded to keep pursuing.

[Joanna]

Great. We have a limerick from Garfried. Thanks for reemerging Garfried, who's also written something longer he sent to us because he says he can do more than just limerick. So I must forward that to you. But in the meantime, there once was a don in D.C. who'd sue just to hear look at Me with Blanche at his side and Vance being fried, he named every grudge policy.

[Michael]

Fantastic.

[Joanna]

Fantastic, Garfried. Thank you. Do we want to just quickly revisit the sex scandals? I'm going to be talking to Farrah Thomazin on Friday, our reporter in D.C. about the number of sex scandals among the Republicans. But of course, Graham Platon has been caught up with sexual texts or sexts he sent to women. And it was actually his wife who brought this up, I think because she wanted to get it out there.

[Michael]

No? Well, you know, I think it is. And given electronic media its usefulness in the pursuit of what we used to call meretricious relationships.

[Joanna]

Right.

[Michael]

And the fact that electronic media somehow reliably becomes public means that more and more and more and more political figures are getting caught in this. Because politicians, I mean, because people say stupid things. Well, you know, I mean, desire is cheesy. I think it's almost always cheesy. And it now gets Memorialized in electronic media. And it is deeply embarrassing to. If you're a public figure, we can go back to Anthony Weiner. Remember Anthony Weiner. The more interesting point may be that while it was obviously disqualifying for Anthony Weiner, it may not now be disqualifying. I mean, it may now be that everybody has texted something embarrassing, something cheesy, something that they shouldn't have done and maybe that there is at this point a kind of unexpected level of tolerance. I don't know. We may find this out with Mr. Plattner.

[Joanna]

Well, and these were all sent before he started running for office. I mean, he's got plenty of embarrassing posts on Reddit too. I mean, but his.

[Michael]

Yeah, I mean he may be. There may be so much embarrassing, so much stuff about him. I mean, this may be the. We're on the. You know, this becomes kind of, kind of the Trump model. The more embarrassment, the more chance you have of escaping the embarrassment of actually.

[Joanna]

Well, and clearly the Democrats knew some of this, which is why they were actually behind the governor of Maine, Janet Mills, who was running for the seat. The problem with Janet Mills, who's been a popular governor, is she would be 80 when she went into the Senate. And by comparison, Graham Platner looks like a sort of energetic, I hate to say it, but sort of full blooded guy.

[Michael]

Full blooded guy.

[Joanna]

Yeah, I know. Does that sound wrong? That probably does sound wrong, doesn't it? I haven't read the text so I don't know. But his wife is a full blooded guy, I think. Is that weird? It's kind of weird, yeah.

[Michael]

We haven't seen Graham Platinum, full blooded guy.

[Joanna]

I think Garfried, you can do something with that. All right, we will be back on Thursday.

[Michael]

I want to come back to this as a theme.

[Joanna]

Okay, well, let's come back to it on Thursday. Sex and politics. Sex and politics. And actually, is it maybe a qualifier? I mean, look at Jeff, Jeff Bezos. His text, his pictures got leaked to the National Enquirer and the next thing you know he and Lauren are having the biggest wedding the world has ever seen. They took over Venice and they couldn't be happy. Right.

[Michael]

You don't have to vote for him. And I don't think anyone would vote for him.

[Joanna]

Except you do vote for him. Well, I was going to say you do vote for him every day by choosing to use Amazon. Right.

[Michael]

Well, I'm not exactly sure we have

[Joanna]

a lot of people who really don't like Amazon. A lot of people comment and say, hey, Amazon, not using Amazon. It's very easy not to use Amazon.

[Michael]

I think they just had their best quarter ever. So I think this is. They may say, but they still do it.

[Joanna]

Yeah. All right. Big thanks to our production team.

[Michael]

Oh, I thought you were going to thank me.

[Joanna]

No, I'm not thanking you.

[Michael]

Ryan, Rachel, Neil and Heather and John, thank you so much.

[Joanna]

See you on Thursday. So the good news is we have so many Bee Beast Tier members now, there are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.