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- [00:00]
Jonathan Fields
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- [00:34]
Amazon One Medical / Sleep Number Advertiser
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- [00:39]
Michael Wolff
They ever actually clean the ball pit at these kids play gyms? Or is my kid just swimming in.
- [00:44]
Amazon One Medical / Sleep Number Advertiser
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- [01:05]
Commercial Narrator / Advertiser
Can I make my site softer?
- [01:07]
Amazon One Medical / Sleep Number Advertiser
Can I make my site firmer?
- [01:09]
Michael Wolff
Can we sleep cooler?
- [01:10]
Amazon One Medical / Sleep Number Advertiser
Sleep number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side. Your sleep number setting. J.D. power ranks sleep number one in customer satisfaction with mattresses purchased in store and online. And now the more you buy, the more you save on beds, faces and limited time. For J.D. power 2025 award information, visit J.D. power.com awards. Check it out at the Sleep Number Store or SleepNumber.com Today.
- [01:36]
Joanna
We have a very good interview with a doctor, a pulmonary specialist who says that the reason he's taking the aspirin dose that he is, is that's a very standard treatment for someone who's. Who's had a stroke.
- [01:47]
Michael Wolff
We're in the middle of a pivotal campaign, conceivably one of the most important campaigns ever waged. This is potentially in November, the end of Donald Trump.
- [02:06]
Joanna
Michael.
- [02:07]
Michael Wolff
Joanna.
- [02:11]
Joanna
I mean, all right, what are you. What are you hearing from inside the White House? I know you've been talking to people post Davos to get the feedback.
- [02:18]
Michael Wolff
I am. But I think we ought to start with the weather because this is the only thing that anyone is going to be interested in is if this weather, if it produces what they say they are going to do, it is going to produce not blizzard like, but a blizzard over much of the country, including me. Although not you.
- [02:40]
Joanna
No, not me. I've scarpets. I've literally done a ted cruise. I haven't gone to Cancun. I know Ted Cruz. Even Ted Cruz is staying put. I've managed to hop on the last flight out of New York and I'm in Florida for who knows how long. Who knows if I'll ever come back.
- [02:59]
Michael Wolff
Michael, I am here at the.
- [03:03]
Commercial Narrator / Advertiser
At.
- [03:03]
Michael Wolff
The beach waiting to be snowed in. The beach, the cold beach, not the warm beach.
- [03:09]
Joanna
And I am snowed in. Yeah. And my children are gone. There's no reason why I can't leave town for things like this. So the risk of sounding extremely bougie. I'm by the beach.
- [03:24]
Michael Wolff
Well, my children are getting ready for snow days.
- [03:26]
Joanna
Oh, what fun, though. What fun. There's nothing better than a snow day. And also when it, I know where you are in Amaganza. And when that snow comes in, it's A, beautiful and B, it's a sort of perfect New England, you know, cozy week with drift. Drifts of snow.
- [03:46]
Michael Wolff
It is. So we'll, we'll see. So at any rate, you're not coming back because you're not going to be able to get back. So I don't have to try to get into the city on Tuesday.
- [03:56]
Joanna
Well, let's double check that this isn't just a media invention. Yes. Because we know that the weather service has been somewhat defunded. So they may have just primitive equipment left at this point. I have been through this before where they say there's going to be 15 inches and then there's only 6 inches. No.
- [04:15]
Michael Wolff
Well, it's a media thing. You know, what is the, what is the biggest story? Forget Donald Trump, forget politics. It is always weather.
- [04:24]
Joanna
It's always weather or. Yeah, And I guess fires are weather. So this time last year it was the fires in Los Angeles. Now it's the blizzard that's going to, you know, impact. I read yesterday 270 million people, but there's only 330 million. And I can tell you nobody in Florida is worrying about the, the nor Easter coming in or whatever it is. Anyway.
- [04:47]
Michael Wolff
Yes, the White House, the White House is actually, is actually worried about the weather too, because, and for that reason, you know, weather and how a president reacts to natural events is extremely important. If you get this wrong, tonally off, that is that can, that can be a significant mark against you. And nobody knows because this is Donald Trump. Of course, nobody knows how he'll react to anything. So when I was on the phone with people yesterday, it was like, yeah, we got a lot of problems.
- [05:28]
Joanna
But.
- [05:28]
Michael Wolff
We also have the weather. But I think what that goes to is after this first year in which it was all, oh, my God, we can't seem to do anything wrong. We just command everything. Everybody moves out of the way for us. Now, it's, I mean, it has been a clear reversal about, in terms of what's going on. And it wasn't just Davos. I think it began before Davos, but it is very much on the minds of everyone in the White House. The polls are very bad.
- [06:12]
Joanna
The polls are very bad.
- [06:14]
Michael Wolff
So we are going into this midterm year and everything is. All of the indicators have reversed themselves. And Davos is. The president apparently is very happy about Davos. I don't see exactly how he can be. But that's his line. And often that happens to him. He gives a speech and isn't that the greatest speech I've ever given? Isn't that the greatest speech that has ever been given in all time? And then some reality sinks in and he goes into a funk. He's still riding the high. But more and more there is the sense, and maybe it's the Mark Carney sense, that things have not gone as he had hoped they would, as he had expected they would. He went to Davos as the conquering hero. Nobody could touch him. Mr. Dominant, Mr. Strongman, everybody wanting to know what he was going to do, everyone cowering in front of him. And I think he comes out of Davos with the reality markedly changed. I mean, we are now at a moment, and possibly it's a transformational moment of pushback and I think best articulated and kind of brilliantly articulated by the Canadian Prime Minister, Mark Carney.
- [08:01]
Joanna
There was a piece in the Wall Street Journal this morning. We're recording this on Saturday morning, a piece this morning saying that Trump was livid with Mark Carney and Mark Carney reaching out to the middle powers, as he calls them, the European countries, to suggest that they form their own coalition and not be bullied by America in the way that Trump has been doing with. Were we going to do tariffs? We're not going to do tariffs, just the sort of general volatility that they want to avoid. And obviously, Mark Carney's done a deal, trade deal with China. So that sense now that you can actually maneuver around Donald Trump, which I thought thought was interesting.
- [08:40]
Michael Wolff
Well, I think it's not just maneuvering around him because people have always tried to do that. I mean, that's what we've been sort of the theme of the past, past year is either bowing to him or maneuvering around him. And the one thing that has been absent is confronting him. And that's, I think, what is beginning to happen right now. I mean, essentially, essentially the Europeans confronted him. We're going to send troops into, into land. We're going to create a situation in which you cannot do what you say you are determined, you are determined to do, that you have the right to do and that you're going to do. I mean, that's over with. That is not going to happen. There is not going. We are not sending troops into Greenland. We are not taking over Greenland. We are not putting tariffs on the European nations who would oppose us in this effort. All over with gone. And, and then Mark Carney comes along and very articulately and very forcefully confronts Donald Trump. And he, or I think we can say this was a quite an example of calling his bluff just for people.
- [10:02]
Joanna
Who weren't paying as much attention as we were. And we were watching it through a magnifying glass. Mark Carney gives his speech on the Tuesday. Donald Trump then gives his speech on the and responds to Mark Carney by saying, Canada only lives because of America. And Carney has since clapped back saying, Canada doesn't live because of America. It thrives because we are Canadian. And you also saw some pushback from Keir Starmer, who's been notably, I think the word fawning is probably appropriate in his approach to Donald Trump to try and get trade agreements done and special treatments for the special relationship that Bretton Britain says it has with America. And then, of course, Donald Trump made the comments that NATO troops weren't that helpful in Afghanistan. They weren't even on the front lines. They were somehow at the back. And even Keir Starmer was pushed to say, whoa, no, they weren't. We lost 500 soldiers supporting you in Afghanistan. So there's definitely pushback on the international stage.
- [11:09]
Michael Wolff
But, you know, I think that that begins, that creates a, another kind of, of sense in the US Among US Voters that, that Trump has been challenged that Trump is a paper tiger, that Trump is a jerk, a dick.
- [11:29]
Joanna
I can see a headline now. Trump is a dick or wolf.
- [11:33]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, you know, I mean, I mean, this is, you know, I mean, Steve Bannon always said that Trump's vulnerability, key vulnerability was to get situation in which he would look weak. And that was as soon as people, Trump's virtue to voters, to his voters, is that no matter what happened, he looked strong because he never gave, he never apologized, he never backtracked. But you create another situation, a new paradigm in which he seems Helpless, like, you know, what can he do? He cannot take Greenland, he cannot take Canada. He cannot do any of the things that he has huffed and puffed and said he will do. So I think it's a turn in the road.
- [12:28]
Joanna
Well, you know what? He can.
- [12:30]
Michael Wolff
Maybe it's wishful thinking, but.
- [12:31]
Joanna
Well, we're always, we're always, we're always wishful thinking, but you know what he can do? He can do what he always does, which is he resorts to threatening to sue people. And the latest target is Jamie Dimon, who is the CEO of JP Morgan, who's made it clear that he's not in favor of tariffs and was pretty vocal when Donald Trump came out after Jerome Powell and said they were going to try and indict Jerome Powell, who of course is chairman of the Fed, because we know that Trump wants to curtail the Fed's independence. Anyway, Jamie Dimon is specifically.
- [13:09]
Michael Wolff
He wants lower interest rates, right?
- [13:11]
Joanna
He wants lower interest rates. Anyway, Jamie Dimon's come out against this. He did an interview in the Economist, the handbook of the Davos class, I think, a magazine we can confidently say Donald Trump has probably never read, though I'm sure he has some fake covers of himself with the Economist. Man of the year. Anyway, he is suing JP Morgan for $5 billion over the fact that after January 6th in 2020, they said they couldn't bank him any longer, they didn't want to bank him. And so he was forced to, I guess they closed his accounts, he was forced to take out his money, which must have been of. Well, it must have just been a huge insult to Donald Trump. So now he's getting his, his own back. And it's sort of odd because I know Jamie Dimon's been in and out of the White House. I know he's been sort of quietly trying to advise Donald Trump, probably.
- [14:03]
Michael Wolff
No, and there, there was, there was a moment after the election. No, maybe it was slightly before the election, in which it seemed like Jamie Dimon had become a Trumper. He was willing, willing to be in the bag, at least however briefly. But I think it's another thing, these lawsuits, of which there are more and more and more, they also become a paper tigerish thing. You know, there's only so many times you can sue people for $5 billion or $20 billion or a trillion dollars. You again, you know, you look like you look foolish and you look like a dick. Okay, fine, you're going to sue him again. Donald Trump, with the united backing of the United States government in all of these lawyers is going to sue somebody again. Yeah. You know yourself well, and we know.
- [15:02]
Joanna
That in all probability, the suit like the ones that Lindsay Halligan tried to introduce against James Comey, head of the FBI, who ran the Russia investigation, and Tish James, who ran various.
- [15:18]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, but those are slightly different because those are criminal. Those are criminal investigations. You know, I mean, I would compare this more to, you know, he sued, he sued ABC and they settled, and he sued cbs and they settled. So that was a, that was a kind of, that was the capitulation moment. And I think now we're at the point where people aren't going to do that anymore.
- [15:45]
Joanna
Well, J.P. morgan issued a statement saying they were going to fight it back, they were going to fight it, and they knew that they were in the right. They may end up settling just because companies do, but it would be thrilling if they didn't. And they saw it all the way through because you can't believe, you know, imagine the discovery that would be in this case if Trump was forced to open his bank accounts for the, for the court to see. And I, I can't help wondering, isn't there something a judge can do when it's clear that someone is bringing what's essentially vexatious litigation? Can't they just say, this is not a serious case, we're going to find.
- [16:23]
Michael Wolff
That's always happens. This always happens. And then they appeal and then they look for a judge. They get a, A Trump judge. Remember, you know, I mean, Trump is aided in this specious effort by the fact that he so extensively remade the judicial system in the United States of America. There are a lot of Trump judges. In my Melania suit, we are now, we have in, in the Southern District of New York, a Trump judge. Now, I don't know what that will, that will, that will mean to the outcome here, but it's obviously a factor.
- [17:05]
Joanna
Yeah. I mean, Jamie Dimon wasn't on the podium when Donald Trump was inaugurated. He's made a point of saying, we're not giving money to the ballroom now. The East Wing has been demolished. So Donald Trump has clearly decided that he's an enemy of the state. Probably. It's kind of extraordinary. CEO of the biggest bank in America.
- [17:31]
Michael Wolff
No, it is extraordinary. I mean, again, you know, we are. And I think we have to keep this in perspective. It's, you know, one year down, three years to go.
- [17:43]
Joanna
Right. Well, and of course, the other irony is that Jamie Dimon would like nothing better than to be president. He just doesn't want to campaign. If you talk to anybody around him and have lots of friends who work there, they're all like, we all wish he could be president. He wishes he could be president, but nobody knows who he is.
- [18:00]
Michael Wolff
Many people wish they could be president. I wish I could be president.
- [18:05]
Joanna
I wish you could be president. I wish you could be president. I don't think a lot of people do think that, but I think if you've run a big bank like that and they have, what, quarter of a million employees, you think that the inevitable next step is to be president.
- [18:20]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, but I also think, and I think Jamie Dimon feels that, and more and more people feel that. And actually, the other night when I was in the city, I ran in into a titan of industry who said, I just don't know how this goes on for another three years. It can't. And then this person said, it can't. Just by any logic, it can't go on for another three years. What would happen if it did? And then we stood together for a moment at this cocktail party and, you know, speculated on the end of the world.
- [18:59]
Joanna
Ah, the end of the world.
- [19:02]
Michael Wolff
Also we speculated on the things that might end this, including Donald Trump dropping dead, including a sense. And. And I have this an incipient feeling of this, of the world waking up and saying, oh, Donald Trump, you know, what a, what a dickish bully.
- [19:25]
Joanna
I think they're probably saying much more than that, actually. And then we will be left with JD Vance, who will be very busy modern fathering, I think, with his four children.
- [19:38]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, I mean, J.D. vance is, you know, I know, as.
- [19:42]
Joanna
You'Ve said, he's much more normal. Donald Trump is in a non. Donald Trump. Oh, it's early on Saturday morning. Donald Trump is an anomaly. And also, you know, I hate to say this, but because we've talked a lot about him and his television abilities, I think that there's a high likelihood that Donald Trump dies live on television at one of his press conferences when he appears to be asleep. Marco Rubio is talking. You can picture it, Marco Rubio is talking. Donald Trump does that thing where he starts closing his eyes. Because we have a report in the Daily Beast and the Daily Beast podcast, very good interview with a doctor, a pulmonary specialist who says that the reason he's taking the aspirin dose that he is is that's a very standard treatment for someone who's. Who's had a stroke. And he then looks at all the other symptoms that Donald Trump is displaying to suggest he has a stroke. But you can just saw this. You can see the scene. Marco Rubio's talking. Trump is sitting there. He's doing that drowsiness in the day, which is another symptom of having had a stroke. And then he just slowly, as I'm doing now, just goes off screen.
- [20:53]
Michael Wolff
We have three years to go.
- [20:54]
Joanna
Think of three years to go.
- [20:55]
Michael Wolff
Think of all of the things, if all, everything that has happened in this one year. Let's multiply it by three. I mean, where are we? How do we survive that?
- [21:08]
Joanna
We've all forgotten that crazy press conference with RFK Jr. And Dr. Oz where some hapless healthcare executive had to come in and discuss the price of GLP1 was going down and he fainted.
- [21:24]
Michael Wolff
You're that poor person. You keep laughing over this.
- [21:27]
Joanna
I know I shouldn't laugh about it because he was probably nervous meeting the President and sort of. Or maybe he hadn't eaten or Maybe he's on GLP1s and he just doesn't bother to eat until 8 o' clock in the evening, which is what a lot of my friends on GLP1s now do. But the poor man is carted off to the corner of the room. His legs are in the air. Donald Trump is looking lost out into the crowd of photographers. RFK Jr flees the room and Dr. Oz keeps talking as if it's all normal. None of it's normal. And you're right, we're only one year in. Okay. And I mean the other way that the end of the world could happen is that we all just get polio and measles again. I mean, this chair of the committee that advises on vaccines has now said that it's more important for people to have, have individual choice, individual health care choice over whether or not to have a vaccine than it is for people to be collectively vaccinated.
- [22:26]
Michael Wolff
Of course, in that defies the logic of and the science of vaccines. Well, and actually work at a critical mass. They don't work at a partial, at partial delivery.
- [22:40]
Joanna
Well, and to use a Gen Z phrase, our lived experience shows that vaccines are one of the great modern accomplishments of science.
- [22:50]
Michael Wolff
Well, yeah, I mean it is again, one of those things. There is a very small minority of people who are against vaccines and there is among a vast majority, an overwhelming not only approval of vaccines, but expectations of them. So they're screwing around with something that I think inevitably, I think it's already begun, backfires in a big way. This catches up with them and the only thing that is in their favor is that there are so Many other things catching up with them or so many other things distracting American voters.
- [23:42]
Joanna
We do need to do a special episode on RFK Jr. And whether or not the brain worm is back and continuing to munch through what gray matter he has left given some of the really erratic decisions coming out. But this one seems Really, I mean, Dr. Kirk Millhoen, who's, who's the chair of the Committee on Immunization Practices, you know, just saying vaccinations should be optional. I mean, it's just madness.
- [24:13]
Michael Wolff
I don't think it's erratic behavior. I mean, I think RFK Jr. Has, this is a particularly ideological sentiment on his part. He has convinced himself that a, this is what he believes because this is advantageous to him. This belief is advantageous to him and his path forward, his political path. And that's what he's interested in is, is to be the MAGA guy, to be the pure maga, the mag. You know, this, the, the vaccines. What, what is the most profound MAGA issue, and it may be vaccines. So that's the space that RFK is going to occupy. He's trying to occupy and he's going to run for president.
- [25:11]
Joanna
It's just, it's mind boggling. It's mind boggling. Do you think Donald Trump is bored?
- [25:16]
Michael Wolff
Do you think that's that idea of Donald Trump being, being bored? And I think that he is and I know from inside the White House that it is a concern of everybody's. You know, if you lose Donald Trump's interests, you lose Donald Trump. You know, he is. This is a man that operates on the, always on the edge of his own energy, what fills him with, what fills any moment. And if there is nothing to fill him and the thing that he reacts badly to are complicated situations, details, all of actually the work of the presidency that does not inspire him. And he needs inspiration constantly. And the inspiration is the roar of the crowd, the unfettered roar of the crowd. And if it becomes complicated, like Greenland became suddenly very complicated, why did he have to get out of that? Because it's too complicated. He would have to think that through. He would have to sit through meetings, he would have to make decisions about small matters, he would have to make decisions about intractable matters. So that has to be pushed to the side. But the idea of Donald Trump losing interest is top of mind for a lot of people in the White House. You know, again, it's a different thing. He's a different sort of person, a different sort of president, a different sort of politician, because he's not interested in the basics of politics. He's not interested in policy. He's not interested in in bureaucracy. He's not interested particularly in ideology. He's interested in unfettered attention and if anything gets in the way of that, a complication of having to explain the situation, of having to. Of having. Of having to accept at best, which the presidency is a set of partial wins, hardly incremental wins. That's boring for Donald and I think it's time for a word from our sponsors.
- [27:54]
Joanna
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- [28:56]
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- [28:59]
Joanna
Away from losing it. You don't like to cook. You don't want more takeout.
- [29:03]
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- [29:26]
Amazon One Medical / Sleep Number Advertiser
Amazon One Medical presents Painful Thoughts I've.
- [29:31]
Commercial Narrator / Advertiser
Been on hold to make a doctor's appointment for 23 minutes now. The automated voice has told me 47 times that my call is very important to them. I'm starting to think that they don't think my call is important at all.
- [29:45]
Amazon One Medical / Sleep Number Advertiser
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- [29:58]
Commercial Narrator / Advertiser
Can I make my site softer?
- [29:59]
Amazon One Medical / Sleep Number Advertiser
Can I make my site firmer?
- [30:01]
Michael Wolff
Can we sleep cooler?
- [30:02]
Amazon One Medical / Sleep Number Advertiser
Sleep number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side. Your sleep number setting J.D. power ranks sleep number number one in customer satisfaction with mattresses purchased in store and online. And now the more you buy, the more you save on beds, bases and more limited time. For J.D. power 2025 award information, visit J.D. power.com awards. Check it out at the Sleep Number Store or Sleep Number.com today.
- [30:30]
Joanna
And Michael Wolf and I are back inside. Where else Trump's head.
- [30:34]
Michael Wolff
Trump.
- [30:35]
Joanna
I imagine he's feeling very anticlimactic though, having come back from Davos and he's coming back to. And we need to talk about Minneapolis, which has blown up since he was away. And also Epstein, which is still, as we're always saying, it's always on the back burner. It may well be the thing that fells him in the end if your lawsuit against the first lady doesn't. And we have very exciting week ahead because we have the premiere of Melania, the movie documentary about self. Very exciting. I will be best be best documentary. Okay, whatever. But let's talk about Minneapolis. I mean yesterday, 600 businesses closed their doors to let their staff protest. This thing is not going away. And it's usually.
- [31:25]
Michael Wolff
Let's talk about that and see that in the context of complications.
- [31:30]
Joanna
Yeah, exactly.
- [31:31]
Michael Wolff
It's now become a very, very complicated situation, a situation in which, I mean, clearly it's not going to be good for Donald Trump. It just day by day seems to get worse for Donald Trump. A situation which he cannot, he cannot threaten his way out of and he can't seem to generate a new headline to get himself out of it. The headlines that are generated are bad headlines.
- [32:02]
Joanna
So what do they do with Minneapolis? How does this go away? As we've said, he doubled down after the death of Rene Nicole Goode. He doubled down, sent in another, I think 3,000 ICE agents. At what point does this become a lost leader for him? And he just does what he always does. He chickens out, he pulls a taco, pulls them out, sends them somewhere else, diverts, distracts, you know, I think maybe.
- [32:33]
Michael Wolff
As early as this week.
- [32:35]
Joanna
Oh really? Do you think he wants to get Minneapolis resolved?
- [32:40]
Michael Wolff
Resolved. I know resolved. That's not a Donald Trump word. I think he wants it to go away. And I think the only way it can go away is he gets the. He removes ICE from the situation. So yeah, I mean, is there another scenario? Do you have one? I can't find one. Except retreat.
- [33:16]
Joanna
Retreat? Yeah. I mean the images of the 5 year old boy that they took into custody which JD Vance said he'd investigated because he of course has a five year old Son. And he'd done a drive by in and out of Minneapolis on Thursday. It turned out that the boy's mother was actually in the home. So the father was arrested, but the boy's mother was inside the home. And ICE took the little boy, the five year old, into custody.
- [33:47]
Michael Wolff
It's unbelievable. I mean, in every, every level of this, every, every altercation, every confrontation gets worse and worse. So what do they do? And the Vance thing is interesting because clearly Trump sent Vance. Go, you try to solve this problem. And it was not a problem to be solved, actually, it is a problem that continues to get worse. I mean, I mean, markedly worse. The images today of the guy pinned down and the orange pepper spray, who knew it was orange covering his face at close range. Extraordinary. And what happens? What happens? I don't know, except that the subject clearly has to be changed. It can only be changed if Trump gets the ICE agents out of there.
- [34:51]
Joanna
Well, it's certainly true that he's fobbing off all the difficult things, the details onto his team around him. Remember when he was who's going to run Venezuela? And he said they aren't, and, you know, fingered Pete Hegseth and Marco Rubio. JD Vance is, as you, as you rightly pointed out, he was sent off to clear up the mess in Minneapolis and then he was sent to talk at a national anti abortion rally, basically where he leaned very heavily into the pro life movement, only to be slapped about by the conservative influencer Laura Loomer, who we haven't heard from for a bit. Laura, always feel free to let us know when you're going to be out there because we love to cover her. And she went after JD Vance saying that the President doesn't want this. Abortion is not going to be a winning issue for the Republicans during the midterms. Why are you doing this? And then, amazingly, the Vice President of The United States, J.D. vance, shoots back at her, saying, actually, the President asked me to come here. That just displaying what you've just said, which is Donald Trump throws things to JD Vance when he wants them sort of fixing away. He can't do it anymore and he has no interest in it. And Trump knows that abortion is a complicated subject for the Republicans and really for independent voters who will matter during the midterms.
- [36:17]
Michael Wolff
Yeah. So again, and this, this is the theme that we should constantly be coming back to for the next slightly less than 12 months at this point, is that this is where we're in the middle of a pivotal campaign. Conceivably, one of the most important campaigns ever waged. This is potentially in November, the end of Donald Trump.
- [36:49]
Joanna
Do you think there needs to be more Democratic leadership or do you think it doesn't matter and it's all about just local. It's, it's about local politicians. Local.
- [36:59]
Michael Wolff
Well, of course it needs to be Democratic leadership. I mean, even the very idea seems, seems, seems a fantasy at this point.
- [37:10]
Joanna
But apparently, I mean, we talked about Governor Newsom turning up in Davos. His, his speech at America House, which is a sort of sponsored house in Davos, got cancelled because I think he was critical of Donald Trump. But then there were reports that he and Donald Trump actually caught up on the sidelines and were, were actually being quite chummy.
- [37:34]
Michael Wolff
Well, that's not a good look.
- [37:36]
Joanna
It's not a good look for either of them. Anyway, it caught my eye. Cause I thought that was an interesting idea, the two of them catching up and perhaps they know all this is a game and they're just using each other.
- [37:47]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, I mean, I think Democratic leadership, I would say, probably to the extent it emerges. It emerges after the midterms, I think, I think it's, I mean, I don't think it's determinative for the midterms. What's determinative is that Donald Trump continues to be Donald Trump and there is a reaction or revulsion in the nation, which there is.
- [38:18]
Joanna
Right. And Minneapolis has certainly produced an opportunity for Jacob Fry, the mayor there, who's taken to social media and did a very funny video of him running around a very peaceful looking park in Minneapolis, talking directly to J.D. vance and saying, next time you come into town, please come and say hello. You know, actually. And then he reeled off a load of, of good things about Minneapolis. But he's clearly now on the national radar in a way he wasn't before. So these crises make opportunities for bright young politicians too.
- [38:53]
Michael Wolff
Yeah.
- [38:53]
Joanna
No.
- [38:53]
Michael Wolff
And Minneapolis is, as we've discussed before, a kind of ground zero of the Trump backlash. How could it not be? And that's what within the White House and, and even I think Donald Trump knows this. This is a crisis. What to do about Minneapolis. It's a crisis they created now. The crisis is how they get out of this.
- [39:24]
Joanna
So the polls are bad. Minneapolis, Epstein, the economy, the East Wing. We still don't know what's happening there. If you feel strongly about the redesign of the East Wing, we are asking people to email the architect, Shalom Baranas. And you can email him at info@sbarones.com s for sugar b a r-a N-E-S.com.
- [39:53]
Michael Wolff
And tell him that we sent you. But the East Wing brings up the subject of.
- [40:01]
Joanna
Melania, the movie. Melania, the movie.
- [40:06]
Michael Wolff
You know, and, and I think that this has an enormous potential at a. To contribute to the backlash. I mean, let's, we don't know and we have not seen this movie and maybe it's, it's, it's in insight, it's a fascinating woman, but let's, it's apparently.
- [40:29]
Joanna
Very limited and it's like it just focuses on the 20 days, I think, in the run up to the election.
- [40:39]
Michael Wolff
Curious. I, I don't know.
- [40:44]
Joanna
Well, they've been pretty.
- [40:45]
Michael Wolff
I mean, I'm trying to think how could. Well, I, I don't know. I guess they could have. I mean, they didn't decide to do this until, until after the election, but I'm, I assume there's a lot of footage, archival footage, and they just cut that. And in that sense that's how they do it. And yes, possibly. It could be anything. It could be, as I say, what.
- [41:12]
Joanna
If the snowstorm impacts people going to the movies to see it? Because obviously people will be flocking to movie houses to see it. It's possible that there will be. It's possible that the weather event is actually to do with stopping people going to see Melania in the U.S. yeah, no, I mean, you know that Donald Trump would blame the weather for that.
- [41:36]
Michael Wolff
So the. When is. I think the premier is on the 29th in Washington.
- [41:41]
Joanna
Right. The Trump Kennedy Center.
- [41:44]
Michael Wolff
Right. So the weather should, the blizzard should be over by then, unless it just continues. But I think people are going to see this. I have the feeling this movie will have a kind of fiddling while Rome burns feel to it. So, so I, I don't know. And, and I think there will be obvious enormous amount of, of mockery and schadenfreude about this.
- [42:18]
Joanna
Well, I can't wait for the memes. I mean, Instagram and X and Tick Tock, wherever else you get, your memes will be just jam packed full of memes.
- [42:28]
Michael Wolff
And I assume when that happens, will feel obliged to, to defend his, the movie and his wife. So this, yeah, this, this should be a good, a good, a good week.
- [42:43]
Joanna
I think you will, as you would say, he will double down on the movie and say it's the greatest movie, it's the best movie ever, best documentary. You know that, you know that he will. All right. Well, Michael, I feel that you're a little energy low this morning and you need some More coffee? You need to. Or maybe hot cocoa for the snow?
- [43:00]
Michael Wolff
I do. Well, I think this is all this Davos thing has been, you know, has kind of squeezed me. It squeezed you?
- [43:12]
Joanna
Well, it certainly squeezed Mark Carney.
- [43:16]
Michael Wolff
What is left here except three years?
- [43:21]
Joanna
Well, when you put it like that. But what we're seeing is emergence of new world leadership and America gave it up. That's the most extraordinary thing that Donald sort of Trump. Donald Trump gave it up, you know.
- [43:39]
Michael Wolff
What do you mean Donald Trump gave it up?
- [43:40]
Joanna
You mean sort of inadvertently by pretending that he was a strong man and creating his own peace, you know, where, you know, fewer than 20 leaders turned up and he was sitting next to the president of Argentina and the president, I think, of Azerbaijan on the other side. You realize that this isn't what he wanted. This isn't who he wanted in his peace board.
- [44:06]
Michael Wolff
Yeah. Here we are.
- [44:09]
Joanna
You need a cup of coffee. We have another three years to get through. Michael, you have to keep your energy up because his energy is. Well, it's flagging. His energy. We can see it's flagging. Mid afternoon days, press conferences.
- [44:24]
Michael Wolff
I go the way of Trump. We are connected.
- [44:28]
Joanna
All right. We're going to come back on Tuesday and we should. Well, we should talk about RFK Jr. Again. We should talk about what we're going to do for the movie, which we haven't figured out yet. So please, people, if you have good ideas for how to. How to commemorate, how to note the arrival of the Melania movie in our movie theaters, you must let us know. And I do want to see the movie.
- [44:53]
Michael Wolff
It doesn't seem like a profound statement, Joanna, but if you're. If you're scuttling in the down alternative.
- [45:04]
Joanna
Smuggling myself into the movies. But, but the point is that they don't get the data that you've gone to see it or the ticket price. Someone else gets that.
- [45:14]
Michael Wolff
Yes, but remember, this is really a streaming project. It's not really a theatrical project.
- [45:21]
Joanna
No, but we want. We do want to see the movie. We just want to see it without paying any money.
- [45:26]
Michael Wolff
And we will see it. That on Amazon. It will. It will be number one.
- [45:33]
Joanna
Will it be number one?
- [45:34]
Michael Wolff
Well, they'll make it number one. And let's take a break for a commercial message.
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- [48:15]
Joanna
And I'm back with Michael Wolff and we are inside Trump's head. So we do have more questions for your lawsuit against Melania. Do you want to just Quickly explain to people what it is for new listeners.
- [48:37]
Michael Wolff
Yes, I am suing the First Lady. The first lady, because the first lady threatened to sue me because of my discussion of her relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. She threatened to sue me for a billion dollars. Her lawyers wrote me. We're going to sue you for a billion dollars unless you retract your. What you said, retract. Linking the First Lady, Melania Trump to Jeffrey Epstein, although we have all seen the pictures in which they are obviously linked. Actually, rather close to arm in arm.
- [49:17]
Joanna
But there is that picture you're talking about, and it's Donald Trump, Melania Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.
- [49:24]
Michael Wolff
Exactly.
- [49:26]
Joanna
Who is being called before the Oversight Committee. We mustn't forget that.
- [49:30]
Michael Wolff
Yes.
- [49:31]
Joanna
So.
- [49:33]
Michael Wolff
But instead of her suing me, I sued her in New York State, where it is illegal to use libel laws for the express purpose of intimidating someone into silence ones. So.
- [49:49]
Joanna
And now she's hired a big fancy law firm, and they're going to have to figure out how they deal with your subpoenas to ask her to come and ask lots, to come and answer lots of questions. So we have more questions for you today. Hi, Joanna and Michael. I'm really enjoying the Inside Trump's Head podcast. I'm a former BBC journalist, recently retired, and have more and more questions about Melania Trump's relationship with Putin and her Russian connections. It simply doesn't fit that a Serbo Croat speaker speaks Russian, and that leads to a million questions. So here are my questions for Melania. During her deposition, you apparently have had discussions with Putin, who speaks only Russian. Can you speak Russian? I think Putin speaks almost flawless English, doesn't he?
- [50:37]
Michael Wolff
No, Absolutely not. True.
- [50:39]
Joanna
Oh, I thought. He does speak English.
- [50:41]
Michael Wolff
He speaks no English whatsoever, however.
- [50:44]
Joanna
Really?
- [50:45]
Michael Wolff
Really?
- [50:45]
Joanna
Oh, okay. Okay. I would have thought if you were the head of the kgb, you would learn English. You just wouldn't use it very often with English people or Americans.
- [50:54]
Michael Wolff
Why do you think you would learn English? But at any rate, it's.
- [50:57]
Joanna
Well, because you can then understand the rival culture.
- [51:01]
Michael Wolff
I don't think that they're very interested in understanding the rival.
- [51:04]
Joanna
Okay. They're just interested in understanding other Russians. All right? If not, did you use an official US Government translator? And were the conversations recorded?
- [51:14]
Michael Wolff
Okay, good, Good questions. But, and you know, it occurs to me as we're having this, this discussion, the questions for Melania make for a much more interesting Melania movie than Melania the movie will be.
- [51:27]
Joanna
So maybe there is a documentary of your lawsuit against Melania and that Will be the other Melania documentary. Why haven't we thought of this before? This is obviously a documentary. This is obviously a documentary. Yes. So, well, finding Melania. I mean, it could be a two parter. The first one is Finding Melania. Shia Mar A Lago Shit. Trump Tower. Because she's not at the White House, you might be able. Right.
- [51:51]
Michael Wolff
Which becomes, which becomes a, a significant part of where we are in this lawsuit right now, which is because they're fighting over jurisdiction and we are. And obviously they want it to be in Florida where the laws are. Where a. The laws are more advantageous for them. And also the judges remember Judge Eileen Cannon or as they say in the, in the White House, future Associate justice of the Supreme Court Eileen Cannon.
- [52:29]
Commercial Narrator / Advertiser
But.
- [52:30]
Michael Wolff
And we are trying to say no, actually Melania lives in New York.
- [52:35]
Joanna
Could you perhaps serve her at the premiere of her documentary? Because you know she's going to be there. They've confirmed she's going to be there.
- [52:45]
Michael Wolff
Well, she does have, you might not be surprised to learn, rather an extreme retinue of guards around her at all times.
- [52:56]
Joanna
Can you not serve one of the guards to give to her? I mean, I'm thinking of that moment when Olivia Wilde was served with papers when she was giving a speech by her ex husband, Jason Sudeikis. Do you remember that? She was handed a brown envelope.
- [53:11]
Michael Wolff
I, I do not. This is.
- [53:13]
Joanna
Well, it was a moment of high drama. You're right. She's surrounded by a retinue of guards who may be on the lookout for someone trying to serve her.
- [53:25]
Michael Wolff
Well, I think they're on the lookout for many things, including. Yes, no, I would say that's a, that, that would not be a fruitful gambit.
- [53:36]
Joanna
Okay. I wish we were invited. Obviously we're not. Okay. Just a further question from the former BBC journalist. If the conversations were recorded, could you release the transcripts? If not, why are they not available? How long did the conversation with Putin last?
- [53:59]
Michael Wolff
All great questions.
- [54:00]
Joanna
All great questions.
- [54:02]
Michael Wolff
It is a great story. It would be a great documentary. The, the Melania. The documentary will not be a great documentary, but a true documentary about who Melania is. How did she come into this, into this not only relationship with Donald Trump, but into the, into step into history in the United States of America is a great story.
- [54:27]
Joanna
She's had the most incredible journey almost of any American immigrant. Here she comes. She barely speaks English when she arrives. She still speaks with a very, very thick accent. And yet she rose through the modeling industry.
- [54:40]
Michael Wolff
Well, no, no, that's actually, that's actually an interesting thing. She did not rise through the modeling industry. She barely signified within the modeling industry. So, like, like, I mean, like many models, I mean, the truth is most models don't succeed, and she is like most models. But she found this other, this kind of workaround. Donald Trump was, is, was for her a workaround for how to be a successful model.
- [55:11]
Joanna
Well, it's a hell of a journey, but so, too is your version of the documentary, the man who Took on the First Lady.
- [55:21]
Michael Wolff
Perhaps. We'll get there.
- [55:24]
Joanna
Well, I hope you're taking Brett Ratner maybe wants a, wants a follow up, wants a sequel. He wants a sequel. All right. And, and Michael, I realized after we'd recorded this last week that I had misidentified the wrong reporter called Katie at the New York Times. It was Katie Roberts who wrote the piece about the Daily Beast's legal issue with Chris Lisavita, which he walked away from. You will remember, last week he walked away from it. And strangely, despite the fact there was no retraction, no money, no apology, and you can still read the article on the Daily Beast website. Chris La Civita's lawyer, Mark Garagos, said to Katie Robertson, the reporter, it was a total capitulation by the Daily Beast, which she ran as a quote. I, however, blamed the wrong Katie. I said it was Katie Rogers, who in fact had been in the news because she did part of the interview with Donald Trump where she asked him that very good question about what would stop you. And he said, happily for all of us, his morality.
- [56:27]
Michael Wolff
I did not. However, when I graded Katie Robertson as a B minus, I had the right one in mind. She's Australian, actually.
- [56:40]
Joanna
She is Australian. She is Australian and she wrote a very nice piece about the Daily Beast last year. So it pained me to point out that I thought her including Mark Garagos's comment was bizarre because he was just 180 wrong completely.
- [56:54]
Michael Wolff
It delighted me.
- [56:57]
Joanna
Anyway, apologies to Katie Rogers. All right, we will see everybody on Tuesday, and maybe you will just be peering over the top of a mountain of Snow.
- [57:08]
Michael Wolff
Joanna. Our 92nd Street Y performance on Tuesday night, no, Wednesday night, this week is, Is now live for everyone. You don't. You did not have to come out to the 92nd street and Lexington Avenue to see us because all you have to do is join the Daily Beast or if you are already a member, then, then you have access to the. To the complete. The complete. What is it called? What it would be called. It's not a podcast. It's a. Some kind of cast.
- [57:49]
Joanna
It's a recording.
- [57:50]
Michael Wolff
I think it's a live cast. The live cast of our live performance is available here for Daily Beast members. And you can just sign up and you can see even more of us.
- [58:06]
Joanna
Even more of us 24 7. And a shout out to the man that I missed but who came with a bag of graphic T shirts for me which I look forward to plowing through. And I noticed there was a Sex Pistols T shirt there which I think I have the original of that very t shirt 40 years ago which dates me. But thank you very much. I think his name was Charlie. Charlie Valiant. Thank you very much. All right, Michael, doctor's orders. Get some cocoa. And if you have been, thank you for joining us. Don't forget to leave a comment for us in YouTube. Please subscribe to the Daily Beast and the Daily Beast podcast.
- [58:46]
Michael Wolff
Yvette Johnson Methinks Betsy o' Farrell Mills and Lynn's Chelby Max Qbitt David Shari Thomas Moore, Maria Voltain D. Kujer Watts Sien Lund. Sien Lund okay. John H. Overrocker Deb K. Ostrander, Sandra Clark Travels With Carl Andrew Beaver Capinator Harry Clark, Dawn McCarthy, Daniel dog lover M. Griner D. Stone Fulvia Orlando Herbie Andrew Mellor, Tattnall, Val Love, Francesco Will Hutchinson, Andrea Hodel, Bocock D.C. sharon Shipley, Connie Rutherford, Karen White and Heidi Riley. Thank you all, our incredible team. Devin, Heather, Ryan, Rachel and Neil.
- [60:01]
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Michael Wolff
Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily.
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Beast podcast@thedailybeast.com podcasts if you enjoyed this.
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- [61:56]
Joanna
Podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline.
- [62:00]
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