THE DAILY BEAST PODCAST

Episode: E. Jean Carroll: My $83m Victory Over Smelly Trump

Date: October 28, 2025
Host: Joanna Coles
Guests: E. Jean Carroll & Robbie Kaplan

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation with E. Jean Carroll and her attorney Robbie Kaplan about Carroll's landmark legal victories against Donald Trump, culminating in an $83.3 million verdict. The discussion explores the current status of their cases, legal strategy, personal repercussions for Carroll, and broader implications for the legal and political landscape. The tone is sharp, irreverent, and defiantly optimistic, as Carroll and Kaplan reflect on what it takes to challenge power and keep winning.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Status of Legal Cases Against Donald Trump

• Carroll and Kaplan recap their twin legal victories:
  • First trial: Verdict for sexual assault and defamation; resulted in a $5 million award.
  • Second trial: Focused on Trump's 2019 defamation; resulted in the "big kahuna"—$83.3 million.
  • Appellate Process: Trump can petition the Supreme Court, but Kaplan is confident it won't take the case.
• Kaplan on Supreme Court prospects:

  “There’s nothing in that case that’s SCOTUS worthy... The Supreme Court typically does not take those kinds of evidentiary questions, particularly in civil cases.” (Robbie Kaplan, 05:11)

• If rejected, Carroll finally receives the $5 million (plus interest), which has been held in court escrow.
• Carroll's plan for damages:

  “I want to give it to everything Donald Trump hates... I may take a million of that and spend it on myself.” (E. Jean Carroll, 08:29/09:08)

2. Taking On Trump: Fearlessness, Myth, & Courtroom Strategy

• Carroll's Unvarnished Description of Trump in Court:

  “I don't understand how people can be afraid of a fat elderly man who wears apricot makeup, his hair done up like Tippi Hedren in 'The Birds'... He belittles Alina Habba, Esquire, his own attorney. He would spit as he was talking. He didn't smell so good.” (E. Jean Carroll, 01:32 & 10:09)

• The jury found Trump’s courtroom demeanor mesmerizing and off-putting.
• The Moment Trump Stormed Out:

  “When a man is innocent, he doesn't storm out of a courtroom. He stays and fights. He turned tail and... left. He lost right at that second.” (E. Jean Carroll, 02:38/11:47)

• Robbie Kaplan on Courtroom Tactics:

  “I just kept my head down and tried the case the way I’ve always learned... In my closing argument the second trial, he was sitting about seven feet to my left, and I just made sure I didn’t look his way... I didn’t want to provoke him.” (Robbie Kaplan, 13:39/15:20)

3. Memorable and Impactful Courtroom Moments

• Jury Delivers $83.3 Million Verdict:
  • Dramatic recounting of the forewoman’s announcement and Carroll’s emotional reaction.

  “She said, ‘Million, your honor.’ And that was a moment, I mean, I left my body... That win was so enormous and so powerful, not for me, not for Robby, but for everybody in the country who had sort of lost hope that he could ever be beaten.” (E. Jean Carroll, 21:36)

• Robbie Kaplan Recalls Trump’s Jury Selection Antics:

  "One of the questions was, 'Does anyone believe that the 2020 election was stolen?' No one in the courtroom raised their hand except for Donald Trump... I’m sure the jury took note." (Robbie Kaplan, 15:49)

4. Personal & Professional Repercussions for Carroll

• Losing Her Career at Elle Magazine:

  “As for Elle magazine, firing a woman with a popular advice column, firing that woman for accusing a powerful man of sexual abuse... It was so astonishing that when they called to tell me, Joanna, I thought they were inviting me to the Christmas party.” (E. Jean Carroll, 23:38)

  • Carroll notes Elle was the “first... to bend the knee to Trump,” firing her mere weeks after she filed suit.
  • She reflects on the wider context of professional retaliation and economic anxiety in the country.

5. Wider Legal and Political Landscape

• Concerns About DOJ Under Trump's Allies:

  “...It’s never happened in American history. To have someone as the U.S. attorney in D.C. who only practiced insurance law... most lawyers like me are pretty shocked by it all.” (Robbie Kaplan, 30:23)

  • Discussion of former Trump attorneys now holding senior DOJ posts and the threat this poses to legal norms.

  “The idea...that the President could bring complaints against the two indictments that were handed down against him and then have the people he picked decide to give him $230 million in compensation... is astounding.” (Robbie Kaplan, 31:21)

• Regarding Supreme Court and Marriage Rights:

  “If we were to bring [the challenge to DOMA] today... I do not think we could win five votes before this court. The more pressing question is whether there are five votes to overturn Windsor and Obergefell. On that, I’m more optimistic.” (Robbie Kaplan, 42:24)

6. Gender, Power, and Solidarity

• Carroll on Backsliding of Women's Rights:

  "It's not vanished, it's gone backwards... For black women and women of color, it's even worse... We're back in the 17 and 1600s. It's appalling. But the three of us know serious women have the ability to get it all back..." (E. Jean Carroll, 40:14) “I think you better vote, bitches. That’s all I gotta say.” (E. Jean Carroll, 41:23)

7. Symbols of Resistance & Activism

• The Paperclip Movement:

  “The paperclip holds things together... was a sign of resistance to Nazi occupation in the Second World War... The paperclip is a signal... to people who resist Trump... As soon as we all can see how many people there are resisting Trump, that’s where the courage comes from...” (E. Jean Carroll, 44:14)

• Urges listeners to wear a paperclip as a visible sign of unity and defiance.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump's behavior:

  "He turned tail. Turned tail and starved out of the courtroom... He couldn't have looked more guilty."
  (E. Jean Carroll, 02:38 / 11:47)

• On using settlement money:

  "I want to give it to everything Donald Trump hates."
  (E. Jean Carroll, 08:29)

• On Elle Magazine firing:

  “They were the first... to bend the knee to Trump... I hope it was wearing a very nice pantyhose when it was bent. But they bent their knee big time.”
  (E. Jean Carroll, 26:01)

• On women's ability to take back power:

  “We’re not going to sit still for this... The power of a serious woman... I think you better vote, bitches. That’s all I gotta say.”
  (E. Jean Carroll, 41:23)

• On symbols of resistance:

  “Put on a paperclip. And I think it bodes well for the country.”
  (E. Jean Carroll, 44:14)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-------------------------------------------------|--------------| | E. Jean Carroll describes Trump in court | 01:32 / 10:09| | Trump storms out of courtroom | 02:38 / 11:45| | Legal process & SCOTUS prospects | 04:36 - 07:59| | Carroll’s plans for settlement | 08:29 - 09:11| | Courtroom strategy & jury deliberations | 13:39 - 17:33| | $83.3M verdict announcement | 21:36 | | Elle Magazine firing aftermath | 23:38 - 27:49| | DOJ staffed with Trump lawyers | 30:23 - 32:59| | Women's rights setbacks | 40:14 | | Marriage equality & Supreme Court threat | 42:24 | | The Paperclip as resistance symbol | 44:14 |

Conclusion & Final Messages

Carroll and Kaplan’s victories demonstrate that even the most powerful can be held accountable by determined, fearless women. Despite enduring professional and personal costs, public retaliation, and a legal process rife with delays, they persist—with Carroll becoming a cultural symbol of resistance and resilience. The episode ends with a call for solidarity (and paperclips), encouragement to fight for rights, and optimism that women’s collective action can once again change history.

For further reading: Carroll’s book, her Substack Ask E. Jean, and the forthcoming documentary “Ask E. Jean”, all offer deeper insight into her journey and ongoing campaign for justice.