Epstein Files are About to Spill Into Open: Wolff

Summary

The Daily Beast Podcast

Episode Title: Epstein Files are About to Spill Into Open: Wolff
Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: Michael Wolff
Date: November 12, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode zeroes in on the imminent release of the “Epstein files” as the House reopens under Speaker Mike Johnson. Host Joanna Coles and guest Michael Wolff dissect the political drama following the Democrats’ unexpected retreat on the government shutdown, the continual unpredictability of Trump, media scandals stretching from the U.S. to the UK, and the brewing battle over Epstein-related secrets. The conversation weaves through inside takes on Fox News, the BBC, pardons, and the maneuvering around Ghislaine Maxwell’s prison treatment—all with the podcast’s signature blend of relish, irreverence, and sharp insight.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The House, Mike Johnson, and the Reopening of the “Epstein Files”

[01:39, 28:30, 28:54 – 36:59]

• Subpoenaing the Files: Michael Wolff explains that with the House reopening, there will be a vote “to subpoena the Epstein file—or files. Theoretically it is everything that exists within the United States government on Jeffrey Epstein.” [01:49]
• Jurisdictional Challenges: The files are spread across multiple agencies and jurisdictions: “There is what the FBI holds. There is what the Justice Department holds...Then there’s the Southern District in New York, and the Florida district...potentially throughout other parts of the government.” — Michael Wolff [31:01]
• Political Confusion: Even Congress doesn’t really know what it’s asking for (“They are going to subpoena something, but they don’t know what they are subpoenaing.”) [29:09]
• Partisan Oddities: The push is bipartisan, notably between Rep. Thomas Massie (R) and Rep. Ro Khanna (D), supported by Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert, and Nancy Mace [30:34].

Notable Quote:

“That is now going to become the next part of this battle. So they are going to subpoena something, but they don’t know what they are subpoenaing.”
— Michael Wolff [29:09]

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2. Democrats’ Sudden Surrender and Political Fallout

[02:13 – 09:58, 21:42 – 23:22]

• Unexpected Retreat:

  • Democrats, fresh off election wins and apparently “winning the shutdown,” suddenly surrendered (“The Democrats are like, okay, we give up.” — Michael Wolff [02:25]).
  • Discussion of party disarray: “It was incomprehensible to me, too. And also, it’s very unusual to see the Democrats turn on each other.” — Joanna Coles [03:41]
  • Internal divisions emphasized by prominent figures criticizing party leadership—Gavin Newsom calls it “unconditional surrender” [03:41, 22:43].

• Analysis of Trump’s Strategy:

  • Trump’s “all or nothing” style: “If you are irrational, then the rational people actually fold. That’s what they do.” — Michael Wolff [06:53]
  • Democrats remain stuck in “politics as usual,” while Trump consistently plays asymmetrical, disruptive games [08:45, 09:00].

Notable Quote:

“Trump fights an asymmetrical battle and they don’t get it at all. They’re still in, we’re politicians and we do what politicians do.”
— Michael Wolff [08:45]

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3. Inside Trump’s Head: Media, Power, and Perception

[06:25 – 17:47, 40:13 – 42:23]

• Trump’s Mindset:

  • “He has one mindset, all or nothing...the campaign was just, again, you know, four indictments, one criminal conviction. It didn’t make any difference to him.” [06:53]
  • Trump’s self-perceived invincibility: “For him, it’s just playing to victory. I just wait for the victory. I can wait as long as anyone. And you know, and he was right, you know—they’ll fold and then I’ll win.” [47:42]

• Fox News and Rupert Murdoch:

  • Laura Ingraham seen as the voice of Murdoch, not Fox News per se: “That was not the Fox line, it was the Rupert Murdoch line.” — Michael Wolff [12:10]
  • The tangled Murdoch-Trump relationship: “Rupert’s view of Trump: he’s an asshole.” [12:48]

• Media Manipulation and Celebrity Politics:

  • The idea that “politics has become pop culture.” [26:39]
  • Anecdotes about attempts to thrust unlikely figures (Matt Stone of South Park) into politics—“Complete catastrophe.” [27:04]

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4. The BBC Scandal and Right-Wing Libel Tactics

[17:47 – 21:12]

• BBC Under Fire:
  • BBC’s leadership shakeup after a Panorama scandal; Michael Wolff notes: “What they did was they shouldn’t have done and was a mistake which you should have been able to apologize for. And, and life goes on. They had to resign.”
• Transatlantic Political Pressure:
  • Trump’s lawyer, Alessandro Britto, now orchestrates “the Trump libel industrial complex,” pressuring both the BBC and U.S. targets [18:07].
• Nuanced Critique:
  • Wolff both condemns the right-wing attack and criticizes BBC’s internal culture: “I have never met such arrogant people, such remote people. What world do they live in? …What has happened to them is completely unfair. At the same time, they deserve everything they get.” [19:57]

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5. The Ghislaine Maxwell Cover-Up: Access, Prison Privileges, and Political Power

[32:39 – 42:23]

• Maxwell’s “Club Fed” Treatment:

  • Maxwell transferred “from a terrible jail in Florida to a jail, a club fed, which sex offenders are by statute excluded from.” [33:09]
  • She enjoys privileges supposedly denied to others—private trainer, meals in cell, even a puppy.
  • Jamie Raskin (D-MD) is pursuing the oddities in her treatment [34:06].

• White House Involvement:

  • Leak from the Maxwell family triggers panic in the White House (“This was a leak from the Maxwell family and describing it as a shot across the bow.” [35:56]).
  • Trump’s former personal lawyer (now the #2 at DOJ) visits Maxwell in jail—an unprecedented move [36:05].

• Potential Pardon Looms:

  • Maxwell’s transfer and fawning DOJ interview suggest she’s “on the way…to a pardon or commutation of her sentence.” [37:35]
  • “He seems to have arranged it so he will not have Ghislaine Maxwell saying…Trump was with this girl or whatever else she might say.” — Michael Wolff [41:04]

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6. Listener Questions: Melania, Trump’s Hair, and Life Behind the Scenes

[42:23 – 46:20]

• Why Doesn’t Melania Help Trump With His Hair?

  • Wolff: “Donald Trump believes he is the consummate Mr. Styld…he understands it has become a signature…brand enhancer.” [43:36–44:16]
  • The theory that Trump’s absurd look may actually have been Melania’s design is floated for comic effect. [44:48]

• Why Not Divorce Trump?

  • Wolff: “Rich people don’t have to get divorced. They have a lot of real estate. I live parallel life. Parallel life.” [45:55]

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Asymmetrical Trumpian Tactics:

  “If you are irrational, then the rational people actually fold. That’s what they do.”
  — Michael Wolff [06:53]

• On Murdoch’s View of Trump:

  “Rupert’s view of Trump: he’s an asshole.”
  — Michael Wolff [12:48]

• On the Open Nature of a Cover-Up:

  “I mean the thing, I mean it’s kind of confusing. The thing about cover ups is that they’re supposed to be hidden. I mean what is it even called when the cover up is out?”
  — Michael Wolff [37:17]

• On Maxwell’s Leverage:

  “Her leverage here is the President of the United States. Let’s, but let’s be very clear. I mean, it is clear, it is transparent what is happening here.”
  — Michael Wolff [35:06]

• On the Future of the Democratic Party:

  “The larger story here is that we are beginning this year now formally beginning the year to the 2026 midterms. And those are going to involve a reckoning in the Democratic Party and that will then be the precursor to what happens in 2028.”
  — Michael Wolff [21:53]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:39] – Introduction to “The Epstein Files” and House reopening
• [02:13–08:57] – Democrats’ shutdown strategy, internal rifts, and Trump’s tactics
• [10:01–13:23] – Trump’s performance in interviews; Murdoch and Fox
• [17:47–21:12] – BBC debacle, transatlantic pressure, and right-wing media
• [28:30–32:37] – The mechanics and politics of the Epstein files
• [33:09–37:35] – Ghislaine Maxwell’s preferential treatment and cover-up
• [40:13–42:23] – Pardons, Epstein victims, and why Maxwell matters
• [42:23–46:20] – Melania, Trump’s signature style, and rich-people marriage
• [47:42] – How Trump “waits for victory” as Democrats fold

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Tone and Style

The conversation remains quick-witted and irreverent, with Michael Wolff’s incisive, sometimes caustic commentary balanced by Joanna Coles’s pointed but playful moderation. The language is bold and candid, laced with media gossip, historical inside stories, and a sense of gallows humor about the American political scene.

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For Listeners

If you want:

• A deep, gossipy dive into political and media maneuvering
• To understand how Epstein-related secrets may soon shake Washington
• Insight into the enduring Trump Show and its ripple effects
• Candid, sometimes brutal assessments of American and British media

This episode delivers all that and more—with a promise of more revelations as “the Epstein files” inch closer to daylight.

Transcript

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[Joanna Coles]

I really really wanted to talk to you about the fact Mike Johnson is now reopening the House which means guess what's back on the docket? The Epstein files.

[Michael Wolff]

So what will happen theoretically is that the House will vote to subpoena the Epstein file or fiols. Theoretically it is everything that exists within the United States government on Jeffrey Epstein.

[Joanna Coles]

Michael Joanna, so much to discuss. Last time I saw you the Democrats were riding high off their victory from the election and now what's happening and.

[Michael Wolff]

They were also winning the shutdown. Hands down. This was their shutdown which doesn't usually happen that the opposition party can claim victory on this. But given that it is Trump who can be counted on to so often shoot himself in the foot again and again because fundamentally he is self destructive. So when he's Taking food, snatching food from babies when he's not snatching babies themselves, to refusing to find money to pay the air controllers to again and again and again, essentially being willing and enjoying it to disrupt major parts of American life. This is what he would do. I am going to do that. So there he was, remote, disengaged, having parties, uncaring and, you know, a complete shit. So that's what we went into. And suddenly yesterday, the Democrats are like, okay, we give up.

[Joanna Coles]

It was incomprehensible to me, too. And also, it's very unusual to see the Democrats turn on each other. I mean, you had Gavin Newsom saying this is unconditional surrender at the other side of the country. If Newsom's in California, in New York, Ritchie Torres is saying, this is ridicul. How do we make sense of this?

[Michael Wolff]

I mean, the Democrats. I guess we make sense by saying the Democrats are the Democrats and ultimately they fall back, or a good, in this case, a decisive margin of the Democrats fell back on seeing this as politics as usual politics as Trump, exclusively Trump, anomalously Trump, you know, never to be the same Trump. This is like, you know, we're in the Senate and the Senate doesn't like this. And we have to. We have to be practical and well.

[Joanna Coles]

And I think they're seeing lines for food, right? And they're thinking, this is really bad. I mean, I think they're genuinely caring the people that made the decision.

[Michael Wolff]

Right, Absolutely. But they are seeing this as a political event rather than an existential one.

[Joanna Coles]

But the crazy of it, because even Trump knew that they were, that the Republicans were losing the shutdown. He actually said people are blaming the Republicans. He did.

[Michael Wolff]

But what he did also say and has been saying within the White House is in his threes. They'll fold. They'll fold. They'll fold. And if they do, we win. We win. We win.

[Joanna Coles]

He's saying that in the White House.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, yes. He said this to both aides because the Republicans have been really worried about this. You know, I mean, essentially, essentially this has not involved the Democrats. What it had been up until yesterday involving the Republicans negotiating against each other. How do we get this guy Trump to a sit down for a meeting, listen to the Democrats appear to come to some kind of kind of compromise. I mean, work it out as these things have always been worked out. And that didn't happen because he doesn't do it. He doesn't, you know, the greatest. I am the greatest negotiator on earth. In truth, he is Not a negotiator or the worst negotiator, but really not a negotiator. It's my way or the highway. Always my way or the highway.

[Joanna Coles]

So what's inside Trump's head? Because he was feeling a bit raw coming off the Democratic victory. He just did a fiery interview with Laura Ingraham where she pushed back on his idea for 50 year mortgages. She pushed back on the idea that people are feeling good about the economy. She pushed back on the idea that the polls giving him terrible ratings are fake.

[Michael Wolff]

This is just Trump who has one mindset, all or nothing, which I'll point out is the title of my last book. You know, my last book is about the campaign. And the campaign was just, again, you know, four indictments, one criminal conviction. It didn't make any difference to him. Just do not alter your position at all. And if you do this, if you are irrational, then the rational people actually fold. That's what they do. Those people in the Senate, those eight senators, all, you know, career politicians, completely, completely rational, all about cause and effect. They could have been. It was a reliable prediction.

[Joanna Coles]

But does the Democratic Party now split into the people who understand how to deal with Trump, or at least think they understand?

[Michael Wolff]

None of them understand. They really don't. Yes, there was a glimmer at this point that they would go the distance, but I don't know how much more distance they would actually go. And I've got to believe that these eight people did this because that was basically the mood of the party. So Chuck Schumer, who people are blaming for this, and other people saying, well, he's not to blame. Yeah, I'm sure he is to blame. And I'm sure that there was a tacit kind of thing within the Democratic Party, certainly among the Senate Democrats, which was, you know, how much longer can we really go on this?

[Joanna Coles]

Right? And two of them are retiring, and then, then the other six, none of them are up for reelection next year. So they're relatively safe in terms of no one will remember this, probably next month, but certainly not by the next election.

[Michael Wolff]

We're back to that thing that Trump fights an asymmetrical battle and they don't get it at all. They're still in. We're politicians and we do what politicians do.

[Joanna Coles]

They're still fighting George W. Bush.

[Michael Wolff]

They're still just doing what they've done for their whole careers. It's a, we have a process job. It's about procedures. It's about cause and effect. We know this. Trump no Trump is all or nothing now that is, those are diametrically opposite mindsets. I mean, Trump will go down, he is willing to go down. Now people don't let him go down because, Because I think they don't know how to do that. They don't really what is, I mean, and they're looking at this and saying, you know, this is a crazy man. What's the crazy man going to do? We better do something. So that fundamental political precept, if the opposition is immolating itself, do nothing. Instead they helped, they gave it to them.

[Joanna Coles]

Did you see the Laura Ingraham interview?

[Michael Wolff]

No one ever sees any interviews anymore except.

[Joanna Coles]

Did you see the clips?

[Michael Wolff]

Donald Trump. Yes, I saw the clips.

[Joanna Coles]

What did you think?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I knew what was going on so.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, that's really what I'm asking. What was going on?

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. So Laura Ingraham at Fox, she is the anchor who is the mouthpiece for the Fox owner, Rupert Murdoch. Everybody else is kind of difficult and doing whatever they have to do to get the best ratings they can possibly get. The Fox people have wanted to fire Laura Ingraham for a long time. She doesn't really get ratings, but she is protected by Rupert Murdoch. Therefore she says what Rupert Murdoch wants her to say or what Rupert Murdoch wants to be said. So in that interview, you know, and Rupert Murdoch, you know, has this deeply, tragically conflicted relationship with Donald Trump who he detests. But nevertheless, Donald Trump is the President of the United States. And Donald and Rupert's relationship to power is, you know, he understands, he understands.

[Joanna Coles]

He understands where it is and how to get it.

[Michael Wolff]

He understands what he has to do. So he is theoretically a Trump ally at this point, but that's on thin ice. And so he uses his outlets. The Wall Street Journal is often opposed to Trump. Fox less so. But in this instance it was. So Murdoch would have been aware that this interview was set up and then he would have been on the phone with Laura Ingraham and she would have taken notes. Now that is also difficult because to be on the phone with Rupert Murdoch, I can do it.

[Joanna Coles]

But no one can understand what he said.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. So more power to her. But she, she certainly delivered the. That was not the Fox line, it was the Rupert Murdoch line.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, well I love the line where she walked around the Oval Office and said, is this all from Home Depot talking about all the gold decor? Because he's saying, oh, you can't just get paint that has gold in it. That seemed a good line and sort of slightly withering of him. And then his strange understanding that most people's mortgages were for 40 years and now we were extending them to 50, and she had to correct them and say 30.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. No, I mean, Rupert literally would have called her up and said, that asshole. That's his. Always his always. The bottom line, when it comes to Rupert's view of Trump, he's an asshole.

[Joanna Coles]

And you say. I can't even begin to do his accent or his mumble. But you say in the first book, Fire and Fury, it's Rupert's great tragedy. He always wanted to make a president of the United States. The fact is, he made it Trump and he hates Trump and does.

[Michael Wolff]

The great irony. Yes, the great irony is that it is Donald Trump.

[Joanna Coles]

There's also an anecdote in your book the Fall. I'm sounding like one of those superfans who now turns up at a book reading and has all your books in a pile and asks you to sign them. I promise you I'm not that.

[Michael Wolff]

But there isn't to sign anyone's books. Come with as many as you have, all right?

[Joanna Coles]

Or you can send them to the Daily Beast offices and we'll get them signed for you.

[Michael Wolff]

A colleague of mine from Vanity Fair who sent me, sent me his copy of Fire and Fury annotated and asked me to sign it. This was very nice. Well, now, what is that? Almost six years later, I look at that book constantly and somehow I cannot bring myself to. I have signed it to put it in an envelope and go to the mailbox and the post office and send it back. It's just a moment of guilt constantly in my life just to point that out.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, well, then just remove it. Remove it from your office. All right, you can send them to us and I'll fake sign them. No, no, no. We'll have you sign them on the podcast as we're talking. But my point is there is an anecdote about Laura Ingraham at Roger Ailes funeral.

[Michael Wolff]

Ingraham.

[Joanna Coles]

Ingraham. Okay, Ingraham. You say Ingraham. I don't know what to say, but there is an anecdote about her at the funeral because don't you fly down to Roger Ailes funeral.

[Michael Wolff]

My wife and I flying down on Sean Hannity's plane, which is an entirely other story how that came to be.

[Joanna Coles]

And that should be another episode of the pod.

[Michael Wolff]

At the funeral in Roger Ailes funeral in Palm Beach, Laura Ingraham was there, and I've always been friendly with her. And when we saw each other in the church, we had a nice conversation. But from that point progressively on, she got drunker and drunker and drunker. Drunk to the point of, in the 1960s on television, there was always this character of the drunken character, which is not really how people act when they get drunk, but this is how actually Laura Ingraham acted. The slurred speech. She couldn't stand straight. Her hands all over you. And then on the way back, she wanted a ride back. She didn't come down with us, but she wanted a ride back on Sean Hannity's plane. And Hannity said no. She kind of whispered, soto voce. No way. Those planes. That bathroom is very small. We do not want to see that.

[Joanna Coles]

What do you mean? That bathroom is very small. We do not want to see that.

[Michael Wolff]

You know, on the plane when she threw up.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, she was that dry and the plane would be bumped. Well, what was the Cessna four seater?

[Michael Wolff]

No, no, but, you know, those, but it wasn't that. It was a, you know, it was a, it was a respectable private plane. But not a super private plane.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. Does Sean Hannity have his own plane or was it rented for the event?

[Michael Wolff]

No, it does. He does have his own plane, but a smaller executive plane.

[Joanna Coles]

Smaller executive plane. Okay, well, we've somehow got distracted right there.

[Michael Wolff]

And you didn't want to go because.

[Joanna Coles]

It'S like, okay, got it.

[Michael Wolff]

You know, the.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. I thought Laura pushed back against Trump quite well, more effectively than Nora O' Donnell on 60 Minutes looked stern, but she didn't really push back. Well, I think Laura did.

[Michael Wolff]

You know, they were both carrying water. Laura for Rupert Murdoch, Norah O' Donnell for the 60 Minute, CBS. And who's that company that bought CBS? Skydance, Skydance, Paramount, whatever those executives were saying. This is, you know, go gentle.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, Bari Weiss, actually, Barry Weiss, go gentle on Trump.

[Michael Wolff]

Matter of fact, that may well have been part of their settlement in the 60 minutes suit. So $15 million plus go gentle on Donald Trump.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, which brings us neatly to the BBC, which lost its director and its head of news, Tim Davy and Deb Turnis, who used to be the head of NBC News. They both resigned this week after accusations that Panorama, their flagship documentary show, had actually elided two different speeches.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. So the thing is, I mean, we can break that what they did was they shouldn't have done and was a mistake which you should have been able to apologize for. And, and life goes on. They had to resign. Bringing the BBC to its knees in many, many respects right now because, well, enormous political pressure within The UK against the BBC, but also Trump. Trump now threatening to sue him for a billion dollars. And we ought to say that the person threatening to sue the BBC for a billion dollars is also the person who threatened to sue me for a billion dollars. I mean, the lawyer, Alessandro Britto. Exactly. So this guy in Florida who is now kind of runs, you know, the Trump libel industrial complex, you just send out these things and everybody, including now the BBC goes, you know, clasps its breasts and panics and, you know, now fires its executives. So, and I will again say that I am the only one who has not panicked and has and has fired back. And the GoFundMe page is still open, still collecting, because I am not going to fold at any rate. But I don't want to get off the BBC because I don't want to. You know, I also want to say two things can be true at the same time, that they're getting screwed across the right wing political spectrum, including the right wing in the UK and the right wing in the White House. But having said that, the other thing that's true is the BBC, if anyone, I mean, I have never met such arrogant people, such remote people. What would world do they live in? This is, this is. So while I would never have. What has happened to them is completely unfair. At the same time, they deserve everything they get.

[Joanna Coles]

I don't feel as strongly as you do about the BBC as a British.

[Michael Wolff]

Person, because you're inculcated.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, as a British person, I grew up, there were three channels to watch and you always felt like it was reliable, that it was doing its best. The institution is always going to be bigger than any one person that works there. Right. I think also Tim Davies had a difficult time because their lead anchor, the man who announced the Queen's death on television, got into trouble because he was paying underage boys to send him photos of themselves naked.

[Michael Wolff]

Ah, well, yes, that old, that old Cheshire habit.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, well, it's not a British habit. It's definitely not a British habit. It is extraordinary how they just gave Trump this gift.

[Michael Wolff]

I am speechless.

[Joanna Coles]

I know, literally, when your enemy is committing suicide, what do you do?

[Michael Wolff]

All they had to do was just wait this out. He would have. And they said, well, he would never have crumbled. What are you talking about? I mean, he had the following choices. To crumble or to get rid of the filibuster, which other people in the Senate were not going to do, or to continue on. He was going to get the blame.

[Joanna Coles]

On this, but all the energy that the Democrats had from the election victory now feels like it's just blown away on the wind. Totally blown away on the wind.

[Michael Wolff]

And so the larger story here is that we are beginning this year now formally beginning the year to the 2026 midterms. And those are going to involve a reckoning in the Democratic Party and that will then be the precursor to what happens in 2028. But this is the kind of thing, and we ought to, we ought to be able start to plant a flag, frame that story, because this is a big story. I mean, together with the Trump story, which is obviously the biggest story and will be the biggest story for the next hundred years. But what the Democrats are now going to do, the spotlight is on them and the onus is on them.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, certainly, as far as I could see, Newsom was the first person out on social media saying the Democrats have unconditionally surrendered. This is terrible.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, yeah, and I think Newsom is the one, the first one out of the gate. I mean, he is, he is going to, I mean, he is out of the gate for 2028. He is running for president, clearly. And he will, in order to do this, he will look to step up for 2026. Right. And remember, 2026 is going to be pivotal. That is the moment that could truly, and we don't have to wait until 2028 bring down Donald Trump.

[Joanna Coles]

We could have a ticker here just counting down the days because it's whatever it is. 363 days to the next election, to.

[Michael Wolff]

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[Joanna Coles]

Michael and I are back inside Trump's head. It's very exciting. I mean, I saw that your friend Trey Parker had made a comment saying that it's not that south park has become political, it's that politics has become pop culture and we are all engaged now. I mean, the idea that you would have a ticker and you would be excited about the midterm elections. Who knew that that was something anyone would ever say?

[Michael Wolff]

Matt Stone is really my friend in that duo and I should tell the story at some point about when I thought that Matt Stone should be the President of the United States. And when I got Steve Bannon, who I thought should abandon Trump. And I said, this is your real populist candidate. And then I had them both to dinner at my house. Complete catastrophe.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, go on. Why? What happened?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, they just didn't click in any way. I mean, Matt was utterly contemptuous of Steve Bannon, and Bannon was not able to rise to the populist occasion.

[Joanna Coles]

All right, well, then that does bring us to Steve Bannon and his expression, burning Daylight. That neither of us knew what it meant, but in fact. Thank you. Thank you. Scores of people actually wrote in to tell us that it means, don't waste time. You're burning daylight. Daylight is valuable. And then someone said that it was actually. It made an appearance in a John.

[Michael Wolff]

Wayne movie, the Cowboy.

[Joanna Coles]

The Cowboy. Okay. Which I'm sure that Steve Bannon has seen, where Burning Daylight is a John Wayne line in the movie the Cowboys. And that's from beer. Check. On. On beer. Checkonan. Anyway, thank you.

[Michael Wolff]

Anyway, if anyone else has any other point of view on that, We're. We're.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, we're open. I liked it. It's a great. It's a great expression. All right, so I really, really wanted to talk to you about the fact Mike Johnson is now reopening the House, which means, guess what's back on the docket. The Epstein files.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, not that it ever left, frankly.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay. Well, it was just hovering. It was simmering on the back burner, and now it's being moved to the front burner.

[Michael Wolff]

So what will happen, theoretically, is that. That the House will vote to subpoena the Epstein file or files.

[Joanna Coles]

Those things that Pam Bondi had on her desk.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, we don't know. I assume what she had on her desk was nothing. Blank, Blank paper, pieces of paper, which is part of the problem. And that is now going to become the next part of this battle. So they are going to subpoena something, but they don't know what they are subpoenaing. And then it will be. They'll have to figure out exactly what that is. And the executive branch, which will have to deliver this material, will define what that is. I mean, and within the hands of the executive branches is the ability now to define what that is, plus its own, I suspect, confusion about what it is and where it is. And then what they redact and don't redact. So the executive branch, even with a vote in Congress, is still basically in charge of these. Of these.

[Joanna Coles]

Of this material.

[Michael Wolff]

Epstein file.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay. Which is the stuff that the FBI has. Right.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, we don't Know, I mean, it's theoretically, theoretically it is everything that exists within the United States government on Jeffrey Epstein.

[Joanna Coles]

And just to remind people, this is the joint effort between Thomas Massie, the very independent leaning Republican, and Congressman Ro Khanna from California. The two of them got together, backed by, they've got enough Republican votes with Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert and Nancy Mace, plus the Republicans to get 218 votes, which means they can demand the files.

[Michael Wolff]

Right. So let's look where the files are. There are the. What the FBI holds. There are, there is what the Justice Department holds. And while the FBI reports the Justice Department, those are not necessarily material in the same place. Plus, that would be considered what main justice holds. Then there's the Southern District in New York and then there is the Florida district. And that's just within that, that framework there is in potentially throughout other parts of the government. And what they know about Jeffrey Epstein, you know, including the financial investigations that have at various times begun about Epstein and his business endeavors and business relationships. And plus there is on the local level, I mean, he was, he was actually convicted in Florida state court, not in federal court. So this is all, this is just spread far and wide. And it will be, it will be sort of up to Congress to kind of define what they're looking for. Those will, if an investigation actually begins, if hearings actually happen, then that's a question. Where is this?

[Joanna Coles]

What are they?

[Michael Wolff]

How do we define this information about this guy?

[Joanna Coles]

Which leads us nicely on. That's the Oversight Committee doing their job there. But on the Judiciary Committee, Jamie Raskin, the Democrat from Maryland, has been asking about Ghislaine Maxwell's what seems to be preferential treatment of Bryan, the jail she was transferred to from her less salubrious jail in Florida after the two day interview with the number two in the Justice Department.

[Michael Wolff]

From Blanche, yes, from a terrible jail in Florida to a jail, a club fed, which sex offenders are by statute excluded from.

[Joanna Coles]

It's also interesting when you have a sex offender who has offended against women in a women's jail. I'm assuming this doesn't happen very often. I mean, because in a man's jail, don't they get put into solitary confinement for their own protection?

[Michael Wolff]

I don't know, but there aren't that many women sex offenders.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. And certainly not that are sentenced to 20 years for sex trafficking. And I wanted to read you the story that we had in the Beast. I wanted to read you some of the details because it was kind of amazing. So this is Jamie Raskin saying that a top prison official is complaining that he is sick of being Ghislaine Maxwell's bitch at her cushy new prison digs. Apparently she has a puppy. And the Maryland lawmaker, I'm reading a paragraph here, alleged that anyone pushing back against the grotesque pampering of Maxwell is being punished and retaliated against by prison warden Tanisha Hall. And Maxwell was transferred to the low security camp where she has her own private physical trainer and she's getting her own meals delivered to her in her cell. I mean, I would quite like my own personal exercise classes and to have meals delivered to me. I don't want to go to jail, obviously, but I'm just mentioning it. I mean, if you've got to be in jail, it's not bad. And then we know that she sent emails to her family saying this is, this is so much better. And the warden is actually one of the more professional people I have met in the prison system. I wonder if she could give a review of her prisons.

[Michael Wolff]

She could go on. Yellen, Let me digress and say, don't.

[Joanna Coles]

Digress too much because I am fascinated by her.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, let's go. Because I mean, her leverage here is much more powerful than $50,000 or whatever contribution she might be able to make. Her leverage here is the President of the United States. Let's, but let's be very clear. I mean, it is clear, it is transparent what is happening here. She. And let's go back. She. The Wall Street Journal published a Donald Trump's birthday greeting to Jeffrey Epstein on the occasion of his 50th birthday. A birthday greeting which did not, let us say, redound to Donald Trump's advantage.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it talks about their wonderful secret that they shared.

[Michael Wolff]

Exactly.

[Joanna Coles]

And we want to know what the wonderful secret was. Right.

[Michael Wolff]

So within the White House, everyone immediately understood that this was a leak from the Maxwell family and describing it as a shot across the bow. Almost immediately, several days later, the number two in the Justice Department was sent down to Florida to interview Ghislaine Maxwell, a sex offender. Now, this is the number two in the Justice Department who just happened to have formerly been Donald Trump's personal lawyer. But this would never happen. Not in the realm of logic would the number two in the Justice Department personally go and interview a convicted sex offender. Anyway, he goes and interviews the convicted sex offender, Ghislaine Maxwell. Shortly thereafter, there is a transcript of their interview released in which clearly, Ghislaine Maxwell is utterly on script. Donald Trump is the greatest guy.

[Joanna Coles]

Love the guy never saw anything in a pray movie.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Never, Never.

[Michael Wolff]

Never. I mean she. So every time.

[Joanna Coles]

And also top Blanche was pretty fawning towards her. Seemed very, you know, thanked her profusely for doing this interview as if she had lots of other things to do and wasn't stuck in prison for the next 20 years.

[Michael Wolff]

No, the amazing thing is how transparent this was. I mean the thing, I mean it's kind of confusing. The thing about COVID ups is that they're supposed to be hidden. I mean what is it even called when the COVID up is is out.

[Joanna Coles]

It'S released on a transcript and then.

[Michael Wolff]

Almost immediately afterward she is transferred from her terrible prison to a vastly better prison. On the way, I think we can reasonably assume to a pardon or commutation of her sentence. And again, you know, the COVID up is completely out in the open. One more time. Another word from our sponsor.

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[Joanna Coles]

And Michael Wolfe and I, Joanna Coles, are back inside Trump's head. Well, Jamie Raskin is on the case, wanting to know what's going on there. And of course, that wasn'ti mean he may be thinking of pardoning Ghislaine Maxwell, but he's actually just pardoned 77 people on his crew. The people who were denying that the 2020 election had been won by Joe Biden.

[Michael Wolff]

No, I mean, and to pardon Ghislaine Maxwell would seem to be appalling, except that this, she just joins the long, long, long list of other appalling pardons.

[Joanna Coles]

True. The difference here is I think that there is a very motivated, articulate, attractive group of Epstein victims who will not take this lying down.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I think that they will not take this lying down. And this will continue to haunt Donald Trump. But what it avoids is the person potentially with the smoking gun. So he will not have, he seems to have arranged it. So he will not have Ghislaine Maxwell saying on this day in Palm beach in 1999, Trump was with this girl or whatever else she might say. And obviously there is great fear about what she might say because of all, everything that we're seeing that she is showing, she is getting not to say it. So he avoids that. So in that respect, the out in the open cover up will probably succeed. Yes, the Epstein matter will go on. Yes, people will continue to try to get to the bottom of it, including yours truly. But that pivotal witness, Ghislaine Maxwell, that pivotal person who is, who is, you know, effectively a co conspirator, will be quiet.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. Well, that brings us to questions that we have for Melania. Many of you have written in with excellent questions. This is a great question. This is from pfei Question for Melania. With your apparent expertise in matter of hair, makeup and styling, why have you never assisted your husband in these areas? I mean, this is a fantastic question.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. I mean, this is complicated because you have to understand that actually Donald Trump believes he is the consummate Mr. Styld. He is. And he would. And I've actually heard this explanation actually makes this explanation to Stormy Daniels, she's one of the few. But this is a great part in her book in which she. She asks him. They're in bed, and she asks him, you know, so what's with the hair?

[Joanna Coles]

What's with the hat? Right.

[Michael Wolff]

And then he gives an explanation that, you know, his hair was. He was always very proud of his hair. And then he got older and he started to do things, have to do things to it to maintain it. But now, rather than seeing this has become ridiculous, he understands it has become a signature. It is Donald Trump, and people identify him with the hair. It is a. And I even think he used one of those words. It's a confessor, brand enhancer, something like that.

[Joanna Coles]

You know, brand enhancer.

[Michael Wolff]

So he is. For a guy who looks absurd, he is actually aware of that and has cultivated that and has seen the advantage in that.

[Joanna Coles]

And didn't Jeffrey Epstein tell you that Donald Trump had had a scalp reduction?

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, yes.

[Joanna Coles]

I didn't even know that was a thing. I'd never even heard of it until then.

[Michael Wolff]

So you reduce the bald scalp so it has, you know, the exposed surface is.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, is smaller. But also, PFE assumes that Melania hasn't helped him with his styling. There are two other possibilities here. One, she has, and she likes what he looks like, and she finds the fake tan attractive and the confection of hair attractive. Or it could be that she's deliberately helped him with this because she thought it made him look ridiculous and that he would somehow not get elected because he looked so strange. And indeed, as you say, it turned out to be a brand enhancement.

[Michael Wolff]

Okay, I'm now officially in over my head here.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, so another question for Melania, this time from Camille P. Question for Melania. What was it about Donald that you fell in love with? His energy? He was man about town, successful businessman.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, I think that's the answer. We got it.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, and here's a question from senior Swifty. Ask Melania what does be best mean? And given his many infidelities, why haven't you divorced Donald Trump?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, there's. I mean, I think that the answer to that. There is divorce, and there is divorce when you really don't have to live with your husband and you leave a parallel life, and he leads a parallel life, and everybody is. And the financial arrangements stay the same. This is. You know, rich people don't have to get divorced. They have a lot of real estate.

[Joanna Coles]

I live parallel life. Parallel life. Okay. All right, so more questions, please, for Melania, Michael and These questions, remember?

[Michael Wolff]

I can't. I am answering these questions as best I can. But I will have the opportunity, I'm counting on to ask her directly.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. So we're compiling you this huge list of questions.

[Michael Wolff]

Never mind, they're not for me. They are literally for.

[Joanna Coles]

No, they're for Melania. These are people asking you to ask Melania on their behalf under oath, under oath. So she will undoubtedly be best under oath.

[Michael Wolff]

What do you think that means?

[Joanna Coles]

Be best. Be best. I don't know. But we like be beast, as you know, just means release your inner beast. You don't need to release your inner beast because your inner beast is already out there. You have an outer beast. You don't need to worry about your inner beast. But other people need a little encouragement to release their inner beast. And that's all we do at the end of our. At the end of each episode. So we'll be back on Thursday with more of what it's like inside Trump's head. But how do you think it's feeling today? I think it's feeling sunnier inside Trump's head, don't you?

[Michael Wolff]

This was a wholly unexpected. Well, no, you see, I shouldn't say that. I think for everyone around him, it was an unexpected victory for him. It's just playing to victory. I just wait for the victory. I can, I can wait as long as anyone. And you know, and he was right, you know, they'll fold and then I'll win. And that is what happened and why the Democrats can't understand how to play this guy. Why they don't call me up and at least have a conversation. I really do understand something about this guy because they don't.

[Joanna Coles]

If you have been. Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast. We are independent media, so we really appreciate your support and. Leave us a comment, leave us a comment on what you think about what the Democrats decided to do and did Donald Trump predict it. Be Peace members got extra content because they got to see our. They got the tape of our live event.

[Michael Wolff]

We did a live event together at this point at this museum of the City of New York and we had a great time.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, not this museum. The Museum of the City of New York that very kindly welcomed us in.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. No.

[Joanna Coles]

Gave us a flawless experience.

[Michael Wolff]

I was unaware that this museum existed.

[Joanna Coles]

But it turns out to be a fabulous museum. They had a huge picture of our design on the stage.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. And a sold out audience. So what of kind could be better?

[Joanna Coles]

Sold out audience and lots of very thoughtful questions. So thank you to everybody who came and thank you to the museum. And we are available for weddings, bar mitzvahs, whatever you need.

[Michael Wolff]

And thank you.

[Joanna Coles]

Thank you. Don't forget to Be Beast. And you should read Beast Members because it's funny when you do it.

[Michael Wolff]

And the Growing list of Be Beast I see you made me say this.

[Joanna Coles]

Now finally I've made you say it.

[Michael Wolff]

The Growing list of Members Herbie Andrew Melor Fulvia Orlando Las Conde Sandra Clark Our favorite Bonzo Val Love Francisco Whoa, that's my new favorite. Bob Kock D.C. karen White Heidi Reilly Connie Rutherford Sharon Shipley Andrea Does Andrea.

[Joanna Coles]

Have a last name? I think it's Hodel.

[Michael Wolff]

No Andrea Hodel.

[Joanna Coles]

Thanks to our production team, Devon Rogerino, Anna von Erssen and Jesse Millwood.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Why choose a Sleep number?

[Commercial Announcer]

Smart Bed Can I make my site softer?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Can I make my site firmer?

[Commercial Announcer]

Can we sleep cooler?

[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Podcast Host/Producer]

We all love our pets, but we love to travel too, and sadly, they can't always come along for the ride. Don't stress. Trusted House Sitters connects you with verified sitters who will stay in your home and care for your pets, all in exchange for a place on their travels. So while you're off exploring, your pets get to stay safe and happy at home, right where they belong. Find a loving in Home Pet sitter.

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[Ryan Reynolds]

Want more great listens?

[Michael Wolff]

Check out our comedy podcast the Last.

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Episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your.

[Joanna Coles]

Podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline.

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