The Daily Beast Podcast

Episode: Fox News Is Really Struggling to Spin the Signal Chat Leak
Date: March 28, 2025
Host: Joanna Coles (Chief Content Officer), with Andy Levy & Danielle Moody
Notable Guests: Matt Gertz (Media Matters), Anna Bauer (Lawfare)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deeply into “Signalgate”—the major national security scandal involving a leaked Signal group chat that revealed Trump administration war plans, highlighting the extraordinary attempts by Fox News and other right-wing media to spin or downplay the crisis. The hosts and guests dissect the technological, legal, and political fallout, connecting the scandal to broader issues of governmental incompetence, autocratic overreach, and threats to constitutional order. The episode also addresses Trump’s retaliatory executive orders against major law firms and the kidnapping of student activists, painting a grim picture of the current state of US governance.

Key Discussion Segments & Insights

1. The Signal Chat Leak: What Happened and Why It Matters

[02:37 – 10:31]

• Scandal Breakdown:
  • Editor-in-chief of The Atlantic, Jeffrey Goldberg, was accidentally added to a Signal group chat discussing imminent military strikes in Yemen.
  • The chat revealed operational details, possible war crimes, and included non-secure, non-government communications.
  • Part of the scandal: evidence suggesting war crimes—texts reference targeting civilian structures (“a building where a target's girlfriend lived”—[13:58] Andy Levy).
• Fox News Spin Attempts:
  • GOP and Fox figures made disjointed defenses, ranging from "everyone makes mistakes" (e.g. Mike Johnson) to lauding the officials’ “top level execution.”
  • Right-wing media then pivoted to attacks on Goldberg, labeling him as a "liar" and "discredited journalist," while simultaneously trying to praise Trump officials’ handling of the incident.
• Quote:
  • Danielle Moody:
    “Our government is being run by teenage boys. That was overtly evident in this catastrophic breach of our national security”—[04:31]

2. The GOP and Fox News Messaging Breakdown

[10:31 – 15:27]

• GOP Hypocrisy:
  • Hosts recall how Republicans once hammered Hillary Clinton for using a private email server, while now downplaying a clearly more severe breach.
• Public Reaction:
  • Polls show large majorities (even among Republicans) see this as more severe than past Democratic scandals—72% believe “Signalgate” is more serious than Hillary's emails ([10:31] Danielle Moody, referencing YouGov poll).
• Regulatory Failure:
  • The Pentagon had warned against Signal for secure communications a week before the leak.
  • Andy Levy:
    "All of the people who defended this on Fox News and elsewhere are just totally screwed."—[25:54] Matt Gertz (paraphrased by Levy)

3. War Crimes and Media Distraction

[13:58 – 15:27]

• Casual Mention of Alleged War Crimes:
  • The chat evidences a strike on a civilian building—host Andy Levy emphasizes this should not be lost in the focus on technical incompetence.
  • Quote:
    "These chats show that a building was targeted where a target’s girlfriend lived... a bunch of non-combatants were targeted, which is not what you’re supposed to be doing, and I think is very clearly a war crime."—[13:58] Andy Levy

4. Escalating Domestic Repression: Kidnapping of Student Activists

[15:27 – 21:49]

• Tufts University Incident:
  • Student Ramsaya Ozturk, after writing a pro-divestment op-ed, was kidnapped in broad daylight by masked men claiming to be police.
  • Comparison to authoritarian regimes—disappearances now a real threat for dissenters in the US.
  • Quote:
    “If you can support this, if you can look at this and say, 'well, she deserved this,' then you are lost and there’s no hope for you"—[20:20] Andy Levy

5. Fox News’ Flailing Response—In-depth with Matt Gertz (Media Matters)

[24:34 – 40:31]

• Media Chaos:
  • “This is a level of scrambling I haven’t seen from Fox News in quite some time... They're all over the place trying to cook up some sort of explanation” —[25:54] Matt Gertz
  • Fox’s shifting narratives: accidental mistakes, attacks on Goldberg, bizarre conspiracy theories, and then simply denying any classified info was leaked.
• Public Not Buying It:
  • Even Fox’s core Republican audience isn’t convinced: “60% of Republicans think this scandal is very or somewhat serious. 74% of all Americans say so. That is higher than... the Hillary email scandal.”—[31:30] Matt Gertz
• Media Strategy:
  • Notably, Fox hosts defend the White House but deliberately do not show the actual leaked texts on air.
  • “They didn't show the texts, they didn't read from the texts... because the actual language in the text is so damning.”—[34:05] Matt Gertz
• Republican Crack—or Pretense:
  • Some GOP members push for investigation, but guests question if this represents actual dissent or just a performative show, noting Trump’s control over DOJ (Pam Bondi/FBI Director Kash Patel interruptions).
  • “Their show of defiance may be just that, just a show... Donald Trump can just stamp it out and ensure nothing comes of anything.”—[38:45] Danielle Moody

6. Trump’s Legal War: Retaliatory Executive Orders Targeting Law Firms

With Anna Bauer (Lawfare) [41:17 – 60:10]

• Trump’s Executive Orders:
  • Trump issues orders targeting major law firms (Paul Weiss, Perkins Coie, Covington & Burling, Jenner & Block), aiming to “terminate contracts, review security clearances, and ban attorneys from federal buildings” if the firms oppose or litigate administration policies—[42:36] Anna Bauer
  • Paul Weiss Capitulates: Rather than sue, Paul Weiss strikes an agreement with Trump, which many lawyers view as “shameful capitulation.”
• Contrast with Other Firms:
  • Perkins Coie sues, receives temporary restraining order against enforcement of Trump’s order. Law community sees their stand as “real solidarity.”
• Legal Community’s Dilemma:
  • Guest notes lack of unified response from law firms, concern over “devastating chilling effect.”
  • Anna Bauer:
    “We're talking about officers of the court who owe a duty to the rule of law. This is a full frontal assault… deserving of criticism from the wider legal community.”—[49:42]
• Judicial Frustration:
  • Judges issuing restraining orders and “exasperated with the administration’s lawless executive orders.”
  • “The judges... give benefit of the doubt to Justice Department attorneys... but you can only obfuscate for so long.”—[55:56] Anna Bauer

7. Reflection: “Fuck That Guy” Awards

[60:12 – 66:38]

• Section 230 Repeal (Democratic Complicity):
  • Andy Levy blasts Democrats like Dick Durbin and Amy Klobuchar for pushing bills with Lindsey Graham and Josh Hawley to repeal Section 230, warning it would “destroy the Internet as we know it.”
• Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem:
  • Danielle Moody denounces Noem’s fascist photo-op in El Salvador after illegal deportations, calling it “one of the most disgusting fucking videos I have ever seen."
  • “Chrissy Noem can absolutely just head over there for this stunt. It is disgusting, it is offensive... this humanitarian catastrophe.” —[63:48] Danielle Moody

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Our government is being run by teenage boys.”—[04:31] Danielle Moody
• “She flat out lied to Congress. That used to mean something.”—[07:16] Andy Levy
• “The incompetence is wild. They actually do need people in positions that... weren't just placed there because they were white and men.”—[06:25] Danielle Moody
• “If you can support this... then you are lost and there’s no hope for you.” —[20:20] Andy Levy (on the student abduction)
• “This is a level of scrambling I have not seen from Fox News in quite some time.”—[25:54] Matt Gertz
• “60% of Republicans think this scandal is very or somewhat serious. 74% of all Americans say so. That is higher than... the Hillary email scandal.”—[31:30] Matt Gertz
• “They know they can't criticize Donald Trump and they know that they can't actually defend any of this on the merits. So they need it to go away.”—[34:05] Matt Gertz
• “Trump agrees to rescind the executive order against Paul Weiss. In exchange... Paul Weiss provides $40 million worth of pro bono services to areas of interest that align with the administration's priorities.”—[44:49] Anna Bauer
• “Judges have become quite exasperated... some of these orders are things that just seem completely lawless.”—[55:56] Anna Bauer
• “If teaming up with Lindsey Graham is not a sign in itself that what you’re doing is wrong, I don’t know what is.”—[61:33] Andy Levy
• “She is my fuck that guy. Hope you enjoyed checking out this episode of the new Abnormal. We're back every Tuesday, Friday and Sunday.”—[66:35] Danielle Moody

Conclusion & Takeaways

• Signalgate is an unspinnable crisis: Fox News can't contain the damage, as even its audience sees the gravity of the leak.
• Right-wing defenses are unraveling: Excuses shift from “just accidents” to elaborate conspiracy claims, while public polling shows deep concern.
• The administration is escalating both repression and legal warfare, targeting opposition with both abductions and executive retaliation against law firms.
• The legal community faces a crossroads: Capitulation can embolden autocratic tactics, while resistance requires courage and solidarity.
• Threats to the First Amendment and constitutional norms are rapidly intensifying.
• Even Democrats are not immune to criticism, especially when siding with reactionaries on crucial free speech protections (Section 230).

For listeners seeking a clear, insightful, and sometimes darkly entertaining account of the worsening state of American governance, media spin, and legal resistance, this episode is essential—balancing grim developments with necessary context, historical echoes, and biting commentary.