Loading summary
Transcript209 lines
- [00:00]
Experian Narrator
New Year, New Me. Cute, but how about New Year, New Money? With Experian, you can actually take control of your finances. Check your FICO score, find ways to save and get matched with credit card offers, giving you time to power through those New Year's goals. You know you're going to crush. Start the year off right. Download the Experian app based on FICO's Score8 model offers an approval not guaranteed. Eligibility requirements and terms apply subject to credit check, which may impact your credit scores. Offers not available in all states. Experian.com for details.
- [00:28]
David Rothkopf
Experian I saw this app. I got a hit. In the new Limited Series DTF St. Louis, Jason Bateman, David Harbour and Linda Cardellini star as three suburbanites who spice up their love lives.
- [00:40]
Joanna Coles
Wow.
- [00:41]
David Rothkopf
Don't miss the new HBO Original Limited Series, DTF St. Louis, premiering March 1 on HBO.
- [00:45]
Joanna Coles
Max David, how seriously do you think we should take the various threats to the election in 2026 to the midterms?
- [00:54]
David Rothkopf
Very serious. The reality is that they realize they're going to lose, and so they are using every conceivable tool in order to put their thumb on the scale.
- [01:07]
Joanna Coles
I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast. Today, we're talking to David Rothkof about what else but RFK Jr. And Kid Rock's insane video. They're topless. They're really riding mysteriously a bicycle in a sauna, which I'm no doctor, but neither is RFK Jr. Who runs our Department of Health. But I'm pretty sure that riding a stationary bike and getting your heart up in a sauna is not a recipe for long life. Anyway, we'll be discussing that. We'll be discussing the madness of Trump with David Rothkopf, who is a former Clinton person. He worked in the Commerce Department. He was the editor of Foreign Policy magazine. He is the founder of the brilliant Deep State Radio. David Rufkoff, I wanted to start with the spectacular video that our secretary of Health and Human Services has put out there of himself with Kid Rock doing all sorts of things. And we will get into it.
- [02:11]
David Rothkopf
You've been watching All Night Live.
- [02:13]
Joanna Coles
I have. I've been. I've had it on replay. I've had it on.
- [02:16]
David Rothkopf
I thought about coming on here shirtless.
- [02:19]
Joanna Coles
Well, you could still take your shirt off. It's not too late.
- [02:21]
David Rothkopf
David I could.
- [02:22]
Joanna Coles
It's not too late.
- [02:23]
David Rothkopf
I don't want to scare away.
- [02:25]
Joanna Coles
Well, I want to get into that. And I also want to get into the Democrats that you've handicapped for the 2028 list, which I think is super interesting that you've handicapped for the 2028 election. But before we do, you are a man who is in true liberal form. Blowing up Blue sky this morning, A flippant blue sky from you about Andy Bashir. The world has arrived at your door. Just explain for those who aren't on Blue sky yet what exactly you said.
- [02:59]
David Rothkopf
I look, I. Jesus. I said, he's come out. He was on Morning Joe this morning. He's got a book, Andy Bashir.
- [03:08]
Joanna Coles
We're talking about the Kentucky governor.
- [03:10]
David Rothkopf
Governor of Kentucky, Right. Lovely guy, popular governor. And he's got a book out that talks all about how important faith is to him. Now, you know, there's nothing wrong with faith. Faith's a good thing. If you like faith, great. But, you know, he's obviously running for president and he is, in my view, you know, he's like saying he's wearing his faith in his sleep. And I've got a real problem with that. In American politics, it's like, if your faith is foundational to you, great. If it provides you with moral guidance, great. If it helps you be a better person, great. If it gives you a sense of community, great. But there's a reason that we have separation of church and state in this country. And it's not because faith is bad. It's because the entire history of mankind is about wars and bloodshed and unhappiness that comes when people who are in positions of political power embrace faith in ways that could seem exclusionary to people. And I also mentioned in this skeet, James Tallarico is super popular. He was on Stephen Colbert. He's a young guy, promising, doing well in Democratic politics.
- [04:36]
Joanna Coles
So let's just remind people who he is. He's in the state Senate in Texas. He's running against Jasmine Crockett to be selected for the Democrats to run for the Senate seat in Texas.
- [04:48]
David Rothkopf
Right. And you know, he's one of these guys who people think gets Texas really well because he talks about religion. He also talks about. And I think he went to a seminary. He talks about.
- [04:59]
Joanna Coles
Yeah, he did. He went to, I think, an Episcopalian seminary.
- [05:02]
David Rothkopf
Right.
- [05:03]
Joanna Coles
He's about to finish it.
- [05:04]
David Rothkopf
Right. And he talks about separation of church and state and inclusion and all this other great stuff. But throughout my life, what I've watched is candidate after candidate who feels they have to invoke the Bible like Morning Joe. They're always talking about scripture. Well, who's scripture? No matter what you do, no matter how open minded you are, no matter how inclusive you are, there's a code there that we get this right and you may not or you may not be part of this. And when it's in the context of a country where there is this kind of thrust, particularly on the right, that we're a Christian nation, that makes people super uncomfortable.
- [05:54]
Joanna Coles
But isn't this simply signaling, Isn't this Democrats in conservative areas signaling to partly MAGA and former Republicans who don't know what they are, so some independent voters that they have values, as it were?
- [06:12]
David Rothkopf
Yeah, of course it is. Of course it is. And they're in fairly conservative communities and they're trying to signal that. I just am uncomfortable with it because as a historian, I've sort of seen what it leads to. As the son of a Holocaust survivor, I've seen what it leads to. And so my view is, practice whatever you want. Let's be tolerant, but let's try to minimize the influence of religion in politics. And I put it, I guess the problem with when you skeet something is it's short and the nuance is lost. But I've gotten beaten up a lot by people who said, well, the Democratic Party is founded on the, you know, black church and. Oh, so you don't like Reverend Martin Luther King or you don't like Reverend Raphael? No, I love everybody. You know, it's like, no, that's not the point. The point is that it's becoming like the price of entry, you know, and, you know, Joe Biden did it and Barack Obama did it and Bill Clinton did it, and they're all like, out there, and I'm going to go and, you know, and we have national prayer breakfasts and stuff like that. And I have to tell you, as much as I love God and religion and spirituality and all of that kind of stuff, the idea that every year the president goes to a national prayer breakfast, particularly given the hypocrisy that's practiced there recently, it just makes me a little uncomfortable. And I was trying to express that, and I am paying well. I think it's the most sins.
- [08:02]
Joanna Coles
I think it's the most excitement that there's ever been on Blue Sky. Actually, who knew that that's what it would take to have Blue sky blow up?
- [08:10]
David Rothkopf
You'll get Blue sky completely wrong. Blue sky is all about liberals beating up each other. And liberals like nothing better.
- [08:18]
Joanna Coles
Exactly. When they should be focused on the Republicans. And also, my favorite moment, I think, is still, well, two moments. Donald Trump being asked what his favorite book is in the Bible. Or his favorite passage from the Bible and him just saying there were too many to choose from. And then him holding the Bible upside down when he was using it as some kind of prop. He's obviously never read the Bible. Obviously he's tried to sell his own version of the Bible. But how anybody could think that he was a religious man at this point, and yet he has the evangelical vote. So.
- [08:56]
David Rothkopf
But I will say there is no religious text in the world that has any guidance for life in it that he has not violated. But I just saw a poll this morning. I think it may have been on Morning Cho that shows that although he's losing a little support evangelicals, only 44,5% of evangelicals or 40% think that he behaves ethically all the time. The vast majority of them still support him.
- [09:30]
Joanna Coles
Well, but that's because they don't have anyone else to support yet.
- [09:33]
David Rothkopf
Right.
- [09:33]
Joanna Coles
And that will bring us to your handicapping, the people that you think are going to run in 2028 for the Democrats. But before we do that, I must debrief with you on the video that dropped yesterday and set Twitter on Fire with RFK and Kid, RFK Jr. And Kid Rock doing a strange workout together, which involved a lot of RFK Jr doing his favorite thing, which is parading around in his jeans with no top and plunging into pools of freezing water, and then cycling. I think it was Kid Rock who was cycling on a bicycle in a sauna when. Which cannot be advised. Whatever your age, that cannot be advised.
- [10:19]
David Rothkopf
Look, first of all, it was just insane. Let's be honest.
- [10:24]
Joanna Coles
I felt bad for Olivia Nuzzi. I was like, is she sitting somewhere looking longingly at this video, you know, his former digital. Digital relationship?
- [10:35]
David Rothkopf
Somebody mentioned that also on Blue sky, that she's on her fainting couch looking at this over here.
- [10:40]
Joanna Coles
Oh, she's just.
- [10:42]
David Rothkopf
But, you know, first of all, this was the most weirdly geriatric, homoerotic display that we have ever seen. Right. And the thing that makes it weirder is that it was released by the Department of Health Insurance Services.
- [11:08]
Joanna Coles
I know. It was their official. It was their official video.
- [11:11]
David Rothkopf
It was on their official site. On their official site, Kid Rock flipped the bird to everybody. Shirtless. Yeah.
- [11:20]
Joanna Coles
That was also kind of strange. Why did he have to be so aggressive? That was unnecessary. I thought maybe he was having a sauna to recuperate from his super bowl performance. He may have had some aching joints after that.
- [11:33]
David Rothkopf
Well, exactly. And then, you know, they're the two of them together, shirtless, working out and RFK Jr does this weird thing of wearing his jeans no matter what. I mean, he wore the jeans in the sauna. He wore the jeans while working out. He wore the jeans while getting out of the tub. You know, it's like, okay, well, maybe.
- [11:54]
Joanna Coles
He does that to shrink the jeans back to fit him. I mean, I think, Ira, didn't we all do that when we were 16? We would get jeans and then sit as long as we could in a cold bath to make them fit properly.
- [12:07]
David Rothkopf
Talk to us about that, Joanna. That's what you did.
- [12:10]
Joanna Coles
He's seven. I think I did that. He's 72. He's 72.
- [12:14]
David Rothkopf
Well, that's great. It's fantastic. Look, my wife told me that the way you don't wash jeans, the way you disinfect jeans, is you put them in the freezer.
- [12:24]
Joanna Coles
Well, there you go. So he's putting them in freezing water.
- [12:27]
David Rothkopf
Maybe. Maybe.
- [12:29]
Joanna Coles
Look, I was just anxious. I mean, what would they have done if Kid Rock pedaling away in. In a sauna, which. Really. I just want to issue a statement. I am not the Health and Human Services Secretary, but I'm pretty confident that cycling on a stationary bike in a sauna is not good for your heart. What would they have done if one of them had keeled over? Would they have still put the video out? I was wondering about that.
- [12:56]
David Rothkopf
No, I mean, if. If it was Kid Rock that keeled over, RK Jr might have eaten him right there.
- [13:03]
Joanna Coles
Because he's meat. He wants me.
- [13:06]
David Rothkopf
He's kind of big on roadkill. But, you know, this was so strange. The thing is, it's coming. The weirdness is so relentless these days that I feel like we've all, like, I don't know, did this happen? Were we all collectively dropped on our head?
- [13:27]
Joanna Coles
Well, and also, is it a slot? Because the other thing is, you look at it and you think, this can't possibly be real. I was like, obviously, this is not real. And then I was like, oh, my God, it is real. It is real.
- [13:39]
David Rothkopf
It is. And it's like, you know, the day after we had to hear the story about Kristi, Noem's lover who works for the Department of Health and Human. Dhs.
- [13:49]
Joanna Coles
Homeland Security, I think. Yeah.
- [13:51]
David Rothkopf
Who works for them. Who. Also on the side is a consultant who hooks people up with dhs and he's on a plane and she doesn't get her blankie.
- [14:05]
Joanna Coles
Yeah, we need to go into that. Cause that's very important. So they fly around a lot at the back of one of the DHS Planes. They are, though they both deny it, apparently in a long term relationship with each other and married to other people. So there you go. That's a lot of people in their lives.
- [14:23]
David Rothkopf
We're open minded here. Fine.
- [14:25]
Joanna Coles
Okay, whatever. Whatever keeps you focused. She had a special blanket. A bit like a child has a special blanket. She had a special blanket which when one of their planes broke down and they got transferred to another plane, the pilot foolishly, and I say foolishly, left behind because when Corey Lewandowski found out the special advisor to Christine, that the pilot had left the blanket, Christie's famous security blanket on the plane, he then fired the pilot there and just said, you have to fly yourself home.
- [15:02]
David Rothkopf
He tried to fire the pilot. He actually doesn't have the power to fire the pilot. And the Coast Guard, which is already pissed off at her because she's doing things like saying, use Coast Guard airplanes to deport people. Instead, she took them away from a mission where they were searching for a lost service member and she said, no, we have to do some deportations here. You know, they're already deeply angered by her. And, you know, in comes this guy who has this terrible track record. I mean, in Washington, people hate this guy. He's gotten into fist fights. How she ended up with him, I mean, it just. Everything you've heard about her must be true. But worse.
- [15:46]
Joanna Coles
Well, he's almost like sort of cosplay advisor. She's always dressing up as a Coast Guard or as a member of ice. I think we actually started the nickname Ice Barbie for her. And now he's her candle.
- [15:58]
David Rothkopf
I guess better Ice Barbie than Klaus Barbie. But they're close. And, you know, the reality is that this was just another bit of weirdness. And every day there's, you know, weirdness.
- [16:10]
Joanna Coles
But we have to point out that he fired the pilot and then realized there was no one to fly them to their next destination. So he had to rehire the pilot.
- [16:19]
David Rothkopf
Yeah, but again, he doesn't have the power to do that. He's a consultant for the Department of Homeland Security.
- [16:27]
Joanna Coles
I wonder if he was a consultant on the video that RFK Jr did with Kid Rock. He might have been. Who put that together? Who shot that video?
- [16:36]
David Rothkopf
That must have been his line of work. And, you know, how are they reviewing this over at the White House Communications office, which does some of the weirdest stuff out there, but, you know, did this get run by, you know, Stephen Cheung? Thank God that it was not him with his shirt off, by the way.
- [16:56]
Joanna Coles
So. Because you're referring to the Fact that Stephen Cheung is a larger. Is a larger member of staff, of.
- [17:01]
David Rothkopf
The White House staff, that he's morbidly obese.
- [17:04]
Joanna Coles
And Donald Trump is always saying to him, you need to go on the fat shot. The fat shot.
- [17:08]
David Rothkopf
Take your physical training advice from Trump. I once wrote a book, I've written a couple books that are sort of histories of how the White House works and one of the.
- [17:19]
Joanna Coles
How it used to work.
- [17:20]
David Rothkopf
About how it used to work. And I talked to all the people in these White Houses, and it was a great privilege to be able to do that. And I remember talking to a bunch of people who are in the Ronald Reagan White House about Ronald Reagan, Right. And particularly during the last couple of years. Remember, he had been shot, and there were already signs that he was in mental decline. And I remember speaking to Frank Carlucci and Colin Powell and some of the people, George Shultz, who are around him, and they said after a certain point, they just didn't involve him in the conversations because they just didn't feel it was value added. Including, by the way, after 5pm at night, God forbid anything happened at night, because he would sundown. He wasn't the middle of that. And this is what's happened in this administration, too. John Bolton, in the first administration, literally told his staff, you cannot bring up Russia in front of Trump. He just reacts too strongly. He thinks it's always a criticism of him. If it ever has to come up, I'll handle it. But please do not use the word Russia in front of Trump.
- [18:33]
Joanna Coles
Wow.
- [18:34]
David Rothkopf
And, you know, this is just, this is how it is when you're dealing with a guy who's a freaking lunatic and who, you know, you know, goes off in the middle. Over this weekend, he went off again about not getting the Nobel Prize, which he will never, ever get. Or he, you know, he goes off on these attacks on, I don't know, you know, Bad Bunny or, you know, I mean, whoever's, you know, he's literally out of control. And I think, you know, they realize they're going to get their clocks cleaned in November, and they're like, well, how do we possibly minimize that? Well, let's get our crack tea from the Cabinet. Let's get the Cabinet out there. Because if you have Kristi Noem and Pete Hegseth and Marco and J.T. fitz, that's going to. And Scott Bessett, that's going to really. And Howard Lutnick.
- [19:37]
Joanna Coles
Right, Howard Lutnick.
- [19:39]
David Rothkopf
They want to talk about affordability. So who do you call? You call the Secretary of Commerce. Because he's the Secretary of Commerce. Howard Lutnick will go everywhere and in front of any audience. Howard Lutnick. Whatever words come out of his mouth. The subtitle like in Annie Hall. Remember the scene in Annie hall with Woody Allen and Diane Keaton where they talk but they're subtitles, Right. Subtitle out of Lutnick is Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein. He cannot be seen in public without being tied to Epstein. And so how are they going to talk about affordability with Jeffrey Epstein's next door neighbor and buddy being their appointment?
- [20:29]
Joanna Coles
Well, and how can he talk about affordability when he's a billionaire? Scott Besant, also, extraordinarily, he's also a billionaire.
- [20:37]
David Rothkopf
There are 13 billionaires in this cabinet. So who's gonna go out? You know the secretary of WWE who's blowing up our education department?
- [20:48]
Joanna Coles
Linda McMahon. Linda McMahon, who's a centimillionaire. At least I think.
- [20:52]
David Rothkopf
Yeah, but you know, they don't. Right. As a middle class member of this cabinet who only has a few hundred million dollars, I feel your pain. Right.
- [21:03]
Joanna Coles
I know about the price of milk, I know about the price of gas.
- [21:06]
David Rothkopf
Right. But the point is they just can't do it. And so they're going to get their clocks cleaned and they're desperately frightened of it. And I think I will make a prediction here that you can take straight to the joint venture you should set up with Kalshi.
- [21:26]
Joanna Coles
Yeah, totally. I'm taking it straight to Kalshi or polymarket, the predictions market.
- [21:31]
David Rothkopf
No, no, it should be. It should be there. You know, there should be like a little like logo at the bottom of your podcast so people can bet immediately and then a chunk of that goes. The Daily Beast. Yes, that's the future of journalism, right? It's the future. You should be able to monetize anything you read.
- [21:52]
Joanna Coles
Well, we should be able to monetize David Rothkop's opinion is what we should be able to do.
- [21:57]
David Rothkopf
Well, that's right, go for it. Go against. If you don't like Rothkoff so much, bet against his opinion. Doesn't matter, monetize it. But I will make a prediction here. I don't think Kristi Noem will be the secretary of Hobnites Security at the end of this year.
- [22:18]
Joanna Coles
I think at the end of this year, that's still.
- [22:21]
David Rothkopf
Well, I think she will go 10 months to go at some point over the summer. I just don't think she can survive this. And they need to have a scapegoat because Everybody hates their immigration policy with the exception of some small Nazi cells across America. And, you know, I think other people, I think they're going to have a bit of a house cleaning.
- [22:49]
Joanna Coles
Okay, hold on. All right, what else are we going to talk about? So, okay, so you think Kristi Noem is going to be out? Do you think RFK jr's video, which I know, I keep coming back to because it's just the image of him in his jeans.
- [23:10]
David Rothkopf
Can't get it out of your mind?
- [23:11]
Joanna Coles
I can't get it out of my mind. Do you think that that is him throwing down the gauntlet for 2028?
- [23:21]
David Rothkopf
No, I don't. You mean you think RFK Jr. Thinks he can run for president?
- [23:28]
Joanna Coles
Michael Wolfe, my co host on Inside Trump's Head, is convinced that RFK Jr. Is going to be running for 2028 for president. He's convinced it.
- [23:37]
David Rothkopf
Really?
- [23:38]
Joanna Coles
Yeah, he's convinced of it.
- [23:40]
David Rothkopf
Good. Well, you should have a range of opinions on your podcast. I'm not.
- [23:44]
Joanna Coles
He's not saying he should be president. He's just saying he's definitely going to run.
- [23:48]
David Rothkopf
Look, he is crazy enough to do anything. I mean, that brain eating worm has finished. He's sitting there, there's nothing left to eat, there's nothing going on.
- [23:58]
Joanna Coles
He's looking around. An empty shell.
- [24:01]
David Rothkopf
Exactly. And so RFK Jr. He could conceivably do anything. Is he a serious candidate? No, because his policies are terrible and by then millions or tens of thousands of people will have suffered, lost their insurance, died, whatever. And you could see, by the way, even the White House is a little uncomfortable. And you saw that even today in some little small thing where the HHS said that they weren't or FDA was not going to review this MRNA based Moderna vaccine for flu, and today they reversed it because they realized that they're a little bit out ahead of their skis on a lot of this stuff. No, I think on the Republican side, you're going to end up with Rubio. I'm going to put a caveat here. If there are free and fair elections this November, and that means there will be something like that in 2028, then you're going to end up with things like the Rubio JD Vance choice. If the Republicans can put their thumb on the scale and the main thing that Trump is looking for is somebody to cover his ass in 2028 to make sure he's not prosecuted, then you're going to have Pam Bondi and Stephen Miller as the ticket.
- [25:37]
Joanna Coles
Oh, Pam Bondi and Stephen Miller, Really? I hadn't considered that. They seem unlikely to have enough popular appeal.
- [25:46]
David Rothkopf
Right. I mean, people really, if the elections are rigged, if they can rig the elections. The person Trump wants covering his butt is Pam Body, because she has completely debased herself, taken the entire Department of Justice, turned it into a department of obstruction of justice and retribution. And in his book, that's a winner.
- [26:13]
Joanna Coles
So, David, how seriously do you think we should take the various things, threats to. To the election in 2026, to the midterms, this thing that you. Go on, go on. Just talk us through the points that are most concerning?
- [26:31]
David Rothkopf
Well, the reality is that they realize they're going to lose, and so they are using every conceivable tool in order to put their thumb on the scale. Right. So you had the raid in Fulton county to claim the voter rolls. This is part of a broader effort to get voter rolls, whether it's Pam Bondi saying to Governor Walts in Minneapolis, we'll leave if you give us the voter rolls, or some of the other cases where they're trying to get them. Why do they want the voter rolls? So they can disqualify people. Why do they want to pursue the conspiracy theories about Fulton County? So they can say, well, we need to impound these machines. There's a potential problem, and you will never see the votes again. You will never see what comes out of that. They are trying also, however, to win by gerrymandering. They are trying also to win by the SAVE act, which has passed through the House and is now going to make its way to the Senate, which is an act that essentially says you need to have a federally issued piece of identification, which a lot of people don't have, in order to vote.
- [27:49]
Joanna Coles
Will that go through the Senate, though? I mean, my understanding was it passed the House, but it won't get through the Senate.
- [27:57]
David Rothkopf
There's some doubt that it'll get through the Senate, but what I'm saying is they're trying everything. They're trying gerrymandering, they're trying to claim voter rolls, they're trying to cast doubt on the elections. They are. You know, Trump repeatedly, he repeatedly. Why would he repeat about 2020 over and over again? It doesn't benefit him. Except if he can say, these elections are rigged, they're not reliable. They want to undermine the reliability of the elections, which authoritarians do all the time. But.
- [28:31]
Joanna Coles
And just by the way, and just to sow confusion, too, I think. Right. So that you don't have to undermine an election by saying it's completely untrue. You can undermine an election by sowing enough doubt that people aren't sure.
- [28:46]
David Rothkopf
Well, and then you can challenge the results in court, and you can not seat people who win in certain kinds of things. Then, of course, on top of all of this, you have them sending troops into the cities, and Steve Bannon saying, we're going to have troops around polling areas so that what they want. I mean, even him saying that is going to scare certain people from going, because they don't just arrest illegal immigrants, they arrest brown people, they arrest people who have accents and so forth. And you have Kristi Noem, we return to Kristi Noem again, saying a few days ago that they are going to make sure that only the right people get to vote in the elections. And so, you know, so what do I name? Just six different ways to get to this thing.
- [29:34]
Joanna Coles
And you have the director of the Intelligence services, Tulsi Gabbard, overseeing the raid in Georgia. And then you have this strange. And I wanted to ask you what you were hearing about this. This strange intelligence whistleblower that's been buried in the intelligence department that has suddenly surfaced, was supposed to have been shown to Congress that wasn't. That appears to be fingering Jared Kushner.
- [30:04]
David Rothkopf
Well, I mean, by fingering Jared Kushner, what he appears to be saying is that there is an intercept that the NSA heard between two foreign nationals that suggested that perhaps Jared Kushner was a source of influence for them. Perhaps. And again, we don't know the details. Acting outside of Farah, the act by which you have to register as a foreign agent. And there is some doubt about the credibility of all of that. The more worrisome thing with Tulsi Gabbard being in Fulton county is that all she has to do is invoke the idea of foreign meddling and say it's a national security issue, and then say, I can't tell you everything. It would reveal our sources and methods. And then say, therefore, we have to impound these voting machines, we have to investigate these people, we have to postpone this election, et cetera, et cetera. But the point is, it's belts and suspenders with them. They are using every available trick to try to win this thing. And, of course, you know, Trump's been pretty explicit about why he's doing it. Right? He said he is doing it because he believes they will impeach him almost immediately. And guess what? They will.
- [31:38]
Joanna Coles
And Steve Bannon has said if they don't win, he'll end up going to jail.
- [31:42]
David Rothkopf
Lots of them will go to jail, and they should. I think that one of the things that I find particularly interesting is Trump is accused of a lot of corruption and enriching himself and enriching his family in the course of this first year of the presidency to the tune of $5 billion, maybe more. We don't know, because crypto's involved. And crypto could mean that it's billions and billions more than that. It's untraceable, and we will never know anything about it except that Trump became a big advocate for crypto as he came into office because, you know, it's a way to conduct essentially criminal transactions. But here's the thing about all of that. Trump thinks he has immunity because the Supreme Court has said presidents acting on official acts have immunity. Well, being corrupt, forcing foreign governments to pay, shaking them down, that can't be an official act because it's explicitly barred by the Constitution in not one, but two emoluments clauses. And so there will be an opportunity to prosecute Trump on that front. And frankly, I'm a little surprised people aren't making more of it, because it's ugly and it's offensive. But it is also a real point of vulnerability, I think, for Trump.
- [33:12]
Joanna Coles
Well, and as he's pointed out, if the Republicans don't get their act together, he'll be impeached. And that's why they need to do everything they can to sow anxiety and doubt around the elections. It's an extraordinary turn of events, really. Perhaps it could have been predicted, but here we are. So, David, let's have some hopium in the conversation in terms of you handicapping the leaders that you think the Democrats might put forward that might lead us to a better place.
- [33:46]
David Rothkopf
Well, first of all, any leader would lead us to a better place. I have a dog. He's a rescue. He's a mutt. He's part Great Pyrenees. He's part, you know, I'm voting for your dog.
- [33:59]
Joanna Coles
I'm voting for your dog.
- [34:00]
David Rothkopf
Exactly. Anybody would vote for my dog, Grizzly for president. Grizzly would be an excellent president by president, compared to Trump. Right. So that's, you know, if there are free and fair elections or even, and I think this is the best we can hope for moderately free and moderately fair elections, then you could get a change in leadership of the United States, which, you know, the world, you know, we just had the Munich Security Conference last week. The world is desperate for a change in leadership of the United States. The problem is it's three years out and we're already starting to see people. Gavin Newsom is out there and he went to Davos and he went to the Munich Security Conference and he's writing books and he's doing podcasts and he's full on campaigning and I know for a fact he's hiring people. Friends of mine have been called by the Newsom campaign and said, will you work with us? They've also, by the way, been asked or told if you work with us, you can't work with any other campaigns. Which I think is, you know, it's a little premature for that. But, you know, Gavin Newsom is out there three years ahead of this now.
- [35:14]
Joanna Coles
Well, aoc, aoc, the congresswoman was also out in Munich.
- [35:18]
David Rothkopf
Well, let me get to her in a second. But my point, beginning with Gavin Newsom is it almost assuredly means being the front runner three years out that you will not be the candidate. Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, Joe Biden, three years out, they were not going to be the candidate. They were not leading the field. Democrats are strange that way. But also American politics moves in certain ways and the zeitgeist chains and you need somebody who's going to speak to that, particularly given the fact that we're in a very social media driven environment. So I think Gavin Newsom, who's currently the frontrunner, there's some real questions about whether he can maintain that status. Now, was AOC in Munich to burnish her potential presidential prospects? I don't know. Maybe. AOC is 36 years old. She's only been eligible to run for president for a year. She's only been in Congress for a few terms. The fact that she was there, I think is the beginning of her foreign policy and national security education, not her effort to deliver a finished product and move to the front of the field. Will she be important in the election as a progressive leader? Yes. Might she be a candidate? Might somebody be saying, you can be the Mamdani? Maybe, but I wouldn't, you know, I think she's going to be a big figure in American politics for the next 20 years. I don't know whether, you know, this round she's going to be there. Should she be considered on the list? Yeah, she should be. There are other people who, you know, are a little more dry or less lightning rods than those two.
- [37:13]
Joanna Coles
Well, Andy Beshear.
- [37:14]
David Rothkopf
You mentioned Andy Beshear. You know, a lot of people like him. He's very popular in Kentucky. He's been a very good governor. He's Managed to be both a Democrat in a red state. And a lot of people say that's what he's. How he's going to win. He's also so dry, so stiff.
- [37:33]
Joanna Coles
He really speaks in policy paragraphs, doesn't he? I mean, he's got no kind of. I mean, even his jokes feel very rehearsed.
- [37:42]
David Rothkopf
Yeah, no, no. I saw some videos on social media of him and his wife, and I was like, oh, my God, somebody watched a momdani video and said, oh, no, yuck it up, Andy. And, you know, he's just not a guy to yuck it up. Might he have the secret formula? Lots of people I know think very highly of it. He might. He might have the secret formula. I don't think so.
- [38:04]
Joanna Coles
He seems low energy, too. I mean, I think when you see him on television, he's just. He's so milquetoast. And to your point about social media, you need to bring more, I think.
- [38:16]
David Rothkopf
Right. And there are always candidates that, like, look good on paper. But now, by the way, sometimes they become the candidate. And an exact identical one is Al Gore, right. Who was a senator from Tennessee. He was also vice president. Super stiff, looked great on paper. I actually think he won the 2000 election. But most of the time, those candidates don't make it through. JB Pritzker is losing a lot of weight. People are like, hey, jb, you look pretty good. He's like Newsom speaking out. But J.B. pritzker has a big advantage. Newsom's from California. J.B. pritzker's from Illinois. The center of the country, the rust belt of the country, the heartland of the country is going to be important. But there are other people from the heartland. You know, Gretchen Whitmer in Michigan or Alyssa Slotkin in Michigan, Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania, are all people who are likely to be in the mix as people consider it. Another one who's not from the heartland but is from the west and kind of a purple area who I think people should not underestimate, despite the fact that he, too, is a little boring, is Senator Mark Kelly. Mark Kelly.
- [39:43]
Joanna Coles
He's becoming less boring. I mean, he shouldn't be boring. He's an astronaut.
- [39:47]
David Rothkopf
He was an astronaut.
- [39:48]
Joanna Coles
He's taken on Pete Hegseth, his wife, obviously Gabby Giffords, who got shot in her line of duty as a congresswoman.
- [39:55]
David Rothkopf
Right. And he's been a. You know, they are profiles in courage. His life has been a profile encourage. And, you know, he was considered as a vice presidential candidate back when Kamala Harris was running. He is seen as somebody who could appeal to a broad audience. And frankly, you know, it's like Trump threw him a lifeline and made him less boring by having Hegseth go after him. Right. Because all of a sudden now he's fighting and winning against the administration. So he is somebody who is going to potentially be in the mix. But this fact that there's this kerfuffle around these congressmen and senators who said don't follow illegal orders illustrates something else, which is we don't know what the story is going to be come the primaries. We don't know what the thing that's going to be dominating the headlines. And it could be a war with China over Taiwan or failing to go to war. It could be a Trump scandal or.
- [41:02]
Joanna Coles
It could be, it could be Iran.
- [41:04]
David Rothkopf
It could be Iran. It could be some more Epstein thing or some other kind of thing. Or Stephen Chung, as you guys called him up. I mean, nobody.
- [41:13]
Joanna Coles
That's right. That's exactly what Stephen Chung said.
- [41:16]
David Rothkopf
Why waste, why waste their good ammunition on me? But. So you don't know what the story is and you also don't know it's going to catch fire. You know, two weeks ago, John Ossoff, who's running to be reelected as the senator in Georgia, Georgia, started talking about the Epstein class and you watched him and you said, gee, this guy's got a little bit of that Mamdani vibe. You know, he's, he's young and he's smart and so forth. Jasmine Crockett's another candidate who, you know, might figure in that somebody who did the last time around who's now going to come at this, having been a cabinet secretary, super articulate, gets how the media works, is another, I would say front runner. If you had five or seven front runners. And that's Pete Buttigieg, who you know is perhaps the best communicator the Democrats have, even when he goes on Fox on issues like this.
- [42:20]
Joanna Coles
He certainly But I will so he gets I checked your you've written a very good column about this sort of handicapping. Everybody. I checked it against Polymarket. And you know, some of the people you've mentioned, including Mark Kelly and Andy Beshear, aren't even figuring at this point. The Gavin Newsom's around 20%. They're handicapping him right now 20%. AOC at 4%, Kamala Harris at 4%. We need to discuss whether or not you think Kamala should run again, Josh Shapiro at 3 and put Pete Buttigieg creeping in at 2%. Do you think, do you think Kamala should run?
- [43:01]
David Rothkopf
I think Kamala will seriously think about running. I know she will seriously. I know there are a lot of people around her saying she should run. And I think she will be underestimated because look, she was vice president, she ran. She had 107 day campaign where she very nearly won the shortest campaign. She had a miraculous growth in that campaign. She knows what doesn't work. And the albatross around her neck the last time she run is gone. She doesn't have to be the Biden administration spokesperson on all of these issues. She can distance herself from Joe Biden and be more of herself. The question for people who know Kamala Harris and who admire her is whether she will be comfortable being herself, whether she can get to the point where she will do that. But should she be on the list? She certainly should. But what does polymarket reflect? Does it reflect the polling and the thoughtful opinion of political analysts and some inside special sauce that they've. No, it's like what's in the news. And polymarket is a reflection of, of the conventional wisdom as filtered through the minds of people who are stupid enough to bet on this shit.
- [44:22]
Joanna Coles
Well, I think it reflects people's visibility, doesn't it, that name recognition is incredibly important. It's what Donald Trump brought to the table, even more so than Jeb Bush. And it can't be underestimated as something that people find helpful because a lot of people don't follow this very closely until the week before. And then they're like, oh, I've heard of that guy, right?
- [44:45]
David Rothkopf
But think where we are in this election. Three years before 2016 election, when Trump was elected, he was considered a non factor. He was under a percent. Nobody thought that he had any possibility. He started when he started running more seriously, which was 2015, which was a year ahead of it, moving up a little bit. But there is something else associated with that, which is Donald Trump recognized. I hate articles that give Trump credit for having some secret genius or something because he doesn't. But he is a creature of the media and he recognized that the media was changing and that social media was going to drive things and traditional media were not going to drive things. And if he had the backing of some people in social media plus the right wing communications ecosystem, he could make it work. Particularly because he wasn't running a campaign based on policy. He was running a campaign based on making headlines, being an entertainment figure, being a celebrity. And I think that's changed presidential politics A lot. And, and so the, one of the questions is, you know, I mean, you know, there are people out there and you know, Andy Beshear is Mark Kelly were tailor made for Meet the Press. I don't even know if Meet the Press is going to be on the air in 2028. I don't think people care about that stuff anymore. And the things that are, you know, they're, they're political candidates right now running campaigns on Twitch because that's where the rising voters are. And so again, we're three years out. Everything is going to change dramatically in terms of what the media environment is, what works in that environment. And we haven't had a campaign in which, for example, AI is a huge factor. And you get AI slop and you get people making shit up with AI and you get documents being dropped that are made with AI, AI and all this other kind of stuff. And you've got AI driven robocalling and AI driven. You know, that's super customized or AI driven.
- [47:18]
Joanna Coles
We had a little bit of that at the last election when people were calling. Someone had put someone who was an AI version of Biden. Perhaps we get an AI candidate. I mean, they might be able to make better decisions. You just feed everything into one of the, you know, Chat, GPT or Claude or City.
- [47:37]
David Rothkopf
You sound like Peter Thiel, you know.
- [47:39]
Joanna Coles
And I do sound like Peter Thiel, don't I? Just leave university, I'll pay you $100,000.
- [47:45]
David Rothkopf
You will either elect the AI as president or the Antichrist will take over.
- [47:51]
Joanna Coles
Or Grizzly Rothkoff. It's a dog, it's an AI robot, or it's the Antichrist. Well, I'm voting for Grizzly.
- [47:59]
David Rothkopf
We could build an AI assistant for Grizzly that had the combined wisdom of all presidents and all commentators.
- [48:07]
Joanna Coles
Honestly, we could do that.
- [48:10]
David Rothkopf
It's pretty easy. I was talking to somebody the other day and they'd given us some presentation on something and they said, no, we did a great job. And I said, oh, did you do this alone so well, no, I did it with Chad.
- [48:25]
Joanna Coles
Chat.
- [48:28]
David Rothkopf
It was Chatty, Chatty the Chatty, their sidekick. But the point is, we have known about AI as a factor for precisely 18 months as a society.
- [48:43]
Joanna Coles
Yep, you're right.
- [48:45]
David Rothkopf
We have to go two complete cycles of that to get to the next election. We don't know why is it that.
- [48:53]
Joanna Coles
We'Re all so fascinated by it? Is it because it just seems so urgent right now with Trump in the White House, it's partly that he keeps raising the specter of it all the time, too. He's constantly talking about the election, constantly talking about how he won, really in 2020.
- [49:09]
David Rothkopf
It's too much of our information stimuli in the world are Trump centric. Too much of it is politics. Politics is now so much part of our entertainment system, we cover it like it's sports. I mean, look, you're one of the most thoughtful people I know for sure. You get up in the morning and within 20 minutes of getting up, you pick up your phone and you scroll through.
- [49:38]
Joanna Coles
Within 20 minutes. What do you think I am? The minute I wake up, I reach my phone. I have my phone by my bed. The minute I wake up, 20 minutes would seem like 20 minutes would seem like, seem like forever. I wouldn't know what to do with myself for 20 minutes.
- [49:56]
David Rothkopf
Exactly. And everybody does that. They get up. Is it because they're looking for information? No, they're looking for endorphins. They're looking for a little shot of something to wake them up in the morning. Ideally. Most of them are like, is he still alive? Is Trump still alive? Right, that's, you know, did something happen last night? You know, but I mean, that's part of it, but. Or is there a scandal? What did Kristi Noem do?
- [50:24]
Joanna Coles
Well, there's always a scandal. There's always a scandal. I mean, there's an incredible scandal this morning about a congressman whose aide committed suicide's a terrible scandal.
- [50:37]
David Rothkopf
There's always something and it becomes. It's not politics anymore. It's your breakfast, you know, it's your morning cup of coffee.
- [50:46]
Joanna Coles
But isn't it better that we think about politicians like this than we used to think about movie stars? I mean, what I'm fascinated by is that the whole nature of celebrity has changed. And Donald Trump sort of single handedly has been responsible for that. He's turned the people around him into a cast of characters. And we're as interested in Pete Hegseth's up and down personal life or, or Corey Lewandowski and Christine Ohm's social life as we are in Brad Pitt and Angelina. And that might be a better, it might be a better use of our faculties.
- [51:19]
David Rothkopf
I don't know if I would give credit to Donald Trump. And I'll give you a couple of examples. Homer. Not Homer Simpson, but the Iliad. And talking about kings and heroes. You mean that old writer, that old blind guy? Yeah, but saying them all weird, but he did. Or Shakespeare, come, let us sit up on the ground and tell sad stories of kings long dead. Right. That was you know, that was his shtick. Right. We were into that. And you may recall back in your youth in the United Kingdom, the Royal Family. And the Royal Family is just. Why did you even have the Royal Family?
- [52:04]
Joanna Coles
I have no idea. Why did we have the Royal Family?
- [52:06]
David Rothkopf
The same reason you have Christmas pantomimes. Entertainment.
- [52:10]
Joanna Coles
Right? Entertainment. Entertainment.
- [52:13]
David Rothkopf
You could talk about it. You could say, oh, yeah, Princess Margaret. She did. Or oh, yeah, Camilla Parker Boles and did this thing with this. And so this idea of politicians, a celebrity has been with us a long time. The thing is that we consume it differently now. We consume it constantly. We consume it not just at a distance. Pick up the morning paper and read dry words about what's going on, but to actually provide more chemicals inside our brain to make our days more interesting. And that. I don't know if that's the way. I don't know if that's the way we should be picking leaders, but it is. And that's why Zoran Mamdani won, because he ran the most complete social media campaign that has ever been conducted in the United States, speaking to core voters in little 1 and 2 minute increments in a way that got them viscerally.
- [53:21]
Joanna Coles
Yeah. But he also ran against two candidates, one of whom had been. Well, one of whom lives with 19 cats, Curtis Sliwa. So he was not going to get the vote. And the other, his other opponent. Yeah. Who was exhausted. Who looked angry and exhausted and had been forced to resign from office after being accused of harassment by 11 women.
- [53:46]
David Rothkopf
No, no.
- [53:47]
Joanna Coles
So Mandani argued that Democratic field.
- [53:49]
David Rothkopf
The Democratic field. If you think of Curtis Sliwa, who lives with 19 cats, and he's not even the third weirdest guy in the field because don't forget Eric Adams.
- [54:02]
Joanna Coles
But Eric Adams, who is the weirdest, most correct.
- [54:04]
David Rothkopf
Yeah, I know, but he was the mayor and he was a Democrat.
- [54:07]
Joanna Coles
Well, he's the only man that wanted to fly to Paris via Istanbul so he could get upgraded to business class.
- [54:15]
David Rothkopf
Certainly. Why are you popular mayor of New York in Turkey ever? But the point is, Mamdani got the fact that political discourse now is much more woven into the fabric of our daily lives. Trump got that fact. I don't think, you know, I don't think that's going to be reversed. And I just don't see Andy Bashir being woven into the fabric of our political lives. You know, Gavin Newsom, you know, he was married to Kimberly Guilfoyle. He's a little cuckoo. You know, he does have a shot, but frankly, People are going to get a little tired of a guy who wants to be president so damn much. And that's the vibe he's giving off now.
- [55:08]
Joanna Coles
Well, but the vibe compared to Trump naming everything after himself and literally changing the face of Washington to reflect that, Gavin Newsom seems positively shy in comparison. I mean, now the latest is Trump is naming every, every transport hub. We've got Penn Station, we've got Dulles Airport, now we've got Palm Beach International. He's naming after himself.
- [55:30]
David Rothkopf
Well, and also, and also, this was. I was thinking of this earlier when we were talking about how weird things are. Trump. Trump has trademarked Trump International Airport. As if there will be trademark.
- [55:43]
Joanna Coles
As if there will be.
- [55:45]
David Rothkopf
And so he could own the intellectual property of the name of these airports or maybe the website or whatever the hell. But. Yeah, no, no. His obsession to name everything after himself is. I mean, it makes Nero look like a recluse.
- [56:06]
Joanna Coles
Well, I take your point about Gavin Newsom wanting this very badly, but nobody is going to want it as badly as Donald Trump. So in comparison with Trump, people look fairly modest.
- [56:18]
David Rothkopf
Yeah. And I think the question, as it has always been the case, because I think everybody who has become president since George Washington has wanted the job too much. I think it takes a certain kind of psychopathology to want to be the president. And in the more modern era, more so because you have to be doing it your whole life. You have to be willing to sacrifice a lot to do it and so forth. And so the question could become like it has been in the past, which is, who does that in a more healthy way, you know, who is psycho to become president in a more healthy way, you know? And, you know, I'm pretty sure Pete Buttigieg has wanted to be president since he was in high school. I mean, he really, I think since.
- [57:10]
Joanna Coles
He was in grade school or possibly kindergarten.
- [57:13]
David Rothkopf
Possibly.
- [57:13]
Joanna Coles
But also Mamdani, though, he wasn't born here, so harder for him.
- [57:18]
David Rothkopf
I mean, all of these people are super ambitious. All of them are super ambitious. The question is when the ambition becomes psychotic, as in the case of Trump, or when it's off putting, as in the case of Newsom, or when it's under control, as in the case of, you know, Barack Obama.
- [57:41]
Joanna Coles
Anyway, David, as I approach this morning, I'm still recovering from my hip surgery. And thank you to everybody. I actually feel fantastic.
- [57:52]
David Rothkopf
Are you using a walker or are you using.
- [57:54]
Joanna Coles
I've progressed to a cane, which is very exciting. But as we got on today, I thought, oh, goodness, what am I Going to talk to David about. I feel I've been slightly out of the loop, but once again, we managed to have covered everything and so much more to go, you know, you.
- [58:09]
David Rothkopf
Yeah, because you. Because I'm a little psycho. I, you know, I talked to you and I went to see the hip doctor and I. Because I was like.
- [58:18]
Joanna Coles
You went, oh, my. You mean you went to see the hip doctor Because I had high. I had to push your hips.
- [58:25]
David Rothkopf
My. I was like, oh, well, she plays.
- [58:27]
Joanna Coles
You need to. Her hips hurt. I play tennis.
- [58:30]
David Rothkopf
I'm going to the doctor. And I said to you, you know, I'm just going to get pt. And you were like, PT is for wimps. Have your hip replaced. And so I went and I called the doctor and I went in the doctor and they, like did all sorts of scans and they said, no, you're fine.
- [58:45]
Joanna Coles
Good, good, good, good. All right.
- [58:46]
David Rothkopf
So I don't have time.
- [58:47]
Joanna Coles
In two months time, when I'm back on the tennis court, we'll be able to finally have a game.
- [58:52]
David Rothkopf
We can, we can.
- [58:53]
Joanna Coles
We'll finally be able to have a game.
- [58:55]
David Rothkopf
Sit courtside and launch your latest Daily Beast podcast. Courtside.
- [59:02]
Joanna Coles
We could do courtside. We could actually be talking across the net.
- [59:06]
David Rothkopf
Nice.
- [59:07]
Joanna Coles
We could. Anyway, it's all. These are all ideas. If you have been. Thank you for watching us. David's got so many ideas and he's got so many opinions. More importantly, that you need to sign up for the Daily Beast to read his opinions, especially his handicapping of the 2028 Democratic wannabes. Although, as you heard, some of them, he thinks want it just too much and that's off putting. But you have to want it enough, David. You have to want it enough.
- [59:33]
David Rothkopf
It's all balance. It's all. It's all.
- [59:36]
Joanna Coles
There is no balance. There is no balance. That's my feeling. There's zero balance. Trump has no balance. Trump has no balance.
- [59:43]
David Rothkopf
Well, that's why the Daily Beast is doing so well, because.
- [59:46]
Joanna Coles
Are you saying we're off balance?
- [59:48]
David Rothkopf
No. Well, now that you mention it, but no. You're kind of the paper of record of excess and imbalance.
- [59:56]
Joanna Coles
Well, there's a lot of excess. There's a lot of excess right now.
- [59:59]
David Rothkopf
Exactly.
- [60:00]
Joanna Coles
Yeah. We try to be balanced in our reporting, though, or at least thorough. We over report and under comment. But then we have commentators like you, which is important.
- [60:09]
David Rothkopf
You have transformed the reporting of the Daily Beast, the reporting of the Daily Beast, particularly in the area I'm Washington reporting in the past 12 months. It's 1,000% better.
- [60:22]
Joanna Coles
Well, that's our team. David Gardner, Farah and Farah Thomasin and Sarah Yule Weiss, who are terrific. Grown up team.
- [60:32]
David Rothkopf
No, they're grown up. They're really reporting. And with, you know, the sinking of the Washington Post into a swamp someplace, it really fills a void.
- [60:42]
Joanna Coles
Good. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you. But your columns fill a void, too, of lively, provocative opinions, as you discovered on Blue sky today.
- [60:51]
David Rothkopf
Right. And as I, you know. And when I'm burned at the stake, I hope you collect them into a volume memorial. Volume.
- [60:57]
Joanna Coles
David. Thank you. So the good news is we have so many Beast Tier members now, there are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support. Thanks to our production team. Devon Rogerino, Ryan Murray, Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro, Neil Rosenhaus.