Podcast Summary
Podcast: The Daily Beast Podcast
Episode: How Jared Played Trump to Grease Own Pocket: Wolff
Air Date: October 12, 2025
Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: Michael Wolff
Episode Overview
This episode dives into the complex relationship between Donald Trump and his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, centering on Kushner’s business motivations and his political maneuvering during the Trump administration. Joanna Coles and Michael Wolff discuss how Kushner leveraged his proximity to power to benefit financially—especially via major ventures into the Middle East—while illuminating both personal and political dynamics inside the Trump-Kushner orbit. Wolff also details the outsized role personal ambition and the lure of the Nobel Peace Prize play in Trump’s worldview, touching on the recent snubbing of Trump by the Nobel committee and the resulting fallout.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Jared Kushner: From Lightweight to Key Operator
- Origins: Michael Wolff recounts his first impressions of Kushner as an unremarkable, overprivileged figure after buying the New York Observer (“a lightweight. Just, you know, a rich guy who had way overpaid for this newspaper.” – Wolff, 09:11).
- Evolution: Kushner’s surprising ascendency during the Trump campaign, labeled as the “family monitor,” was primarily to protect the Trump brand rather than run a serious political operation.
2. The "List": Kushner’s Powerbase and Profit Motive
- Voter Data as Leverage: Kushner was instrumental in building the Trump campaign’s voter database—an asset not just strategically valuable, but also lucrative.
- “Jared really represents the idea that governing should work for the people who are doing the governing as well as the governed... the theme of Trump trying to profit from the presidency.” (Wolff, 13:41)
- Opportunism or "The Grift": The podcast grapples with whether Kushner and his allies are “deal guys” or “grifters,” ultimately distinguishing them by their relentless pursuit of money. “What deal guys and grifters have in common is... following the money.” (Wolff, 16:00)
3. The Middle East: Business Over Peace
- Affinity Partners: Post-White House, Kushner establishes his investment fund, netting $2 billion from the Saudis, with investments spanning Israeli, American, and African companies. This is seen as monetizing his White House connections:
- “When he got out of the White House, he’s monetized this at a level we have never before seen from anyone in the White House.” (Wolff, 22:28)
- Family Connections: The logic of power and business in the Gulf revolves around families, much as it does for Jared and Trump:
- “Their idea of the money and who has the money and how you exchange the money is always a family thing.” (Wolff, 17:00)
4. Trump’s Obsession with the Nobel Peace Prize
- An All-Consuming Goal: Wolff describes how Trump’s desire for the Nobel Peace Prize overshadowed any genuine interest in peace. He was convinced—even days before the announcement—that he was a lock for the award.
- “He was, as recently as somewhat more than 24 hours ago, telling people that he was a lock on the Nobel Peace Prize.” (Wolff, 06:25)
- “Trump is a very simple machine. What does he want?... The Nobel Peace Prize has been an obsession.” (Wolff, 30:11)
- Kushner’s Manipulation: Kushner leverages this obsession, pushing Trump towards actions that could benefit his own business interests, such as cracking down on Bibi Netanyahu to curry favor in the Gulf.
- “Jared is good at this. He knows how to play his father-in-law.” (Wolff, 28:39)
5. Inside the Trump-Kushner Dynamic
- Physical & Social Dynamics: Wolff paints a vivid picture of their interpersonal relationship. Trump is physically and psychologically dominating, while Kushner is portrayed as awkward, thin, and socially inept:
- “Jared is a 98-pound weakling in the classic sense...he kind of pulls himself together...retreats. You can see him physically retreat against the presence of his father in law.” (Wolff, 37:52)
- Risk and Reward: Kushner’s ability to survive and thrive is rooted in his calculation that he could exercise power without exposing himself to the risks of another Trump administration.
- “He is the winner out of that White House. He understood all of the reasons not to go back into the White House...maximize the money he is going to get.” (Wolff, 40:53)
6. Self-Interest vs Public Good
- Peace as a Byproduct: The discussion closes on the paradox that, while Kushner’s drive is self-enrichment, it occasionally aligns with broader positive outcomes:
- “He craves influence in the Middle East...all of which is helped by peace. So peace becomes a byproduct of business.” (Wolff, 32:56)
- “We have in the broader context is peace. But peace brought to us by—for reasons that we don’t understand, by powers that we can’t control...Would you rather have an equitable world or peace? And I think...people would certainly choose peace.” (Wolff, 34:16)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Kushner's reputation:
“He was not a person you would have any interest in getting to know at that time...one of the great lightweight Jared Kushners of all time.”
— Michael Wolff (09:11) -
On the Kushner-Trump White House:
“In the first White House they used to say, you know, when the going gets tough, Jared is nowhere to be found.”
— Michael Wolff (24:33) -
On Kushner’s post-White House pivot:
“Jared got the money and Trump did not.”
— Michael Wolff (25:20) -
On the Trump family dynamic:
“Trump is a very simple machine. What does he want...The Nobel Peace Prize has been an obsession.”
— Michael Wolff (30:11) -
On power and risk:
“He is the winner out of that White House. And in that business equation of opportunity versus risk...he saw, well, I should not go into the White House. I can still have considerable power outside...”
— Michael Wolff (40:53) -
On the unsettling nature of this “peace deal”:
“Peace becomes a byproduct of business. Is that good? Is that bad?”
— Michael Wolff (32:56)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [02:03] – Framing the central question: Is this a business deal or a peace deal?
- [09:11] – Wolff’s first impressions of Jared Kushner
- [13:41] – The value and motivation behind the Trump campaign’s voter database
- [16:00] – “Deal guys” vs “grifters” and the family logic of Gulf politics
- [22:28] – Kushner’s post-White House billions and ongoing influence
- [30:11] – Trump’s Nobel obsession and Kushner’s manipulation
- [37:52] – The physical and psychological contrast between Trump and Kushner
- [40:53] – Kushner’s calculation: maximizing power and minimizing risk after the White House
- [32:56] – Peace as a byproduct of Kushner's business goals
Tone and Style
- The conversation is incisive, irreverent, and at times biting—Michael Wolff is characteristically unsparing, while Joanna Coles maintains a tone of bemused skepticism.
- Despite the serious subject matter, both speakers employ dark humor (e.g., discussions of “grift” and the “blessed are the dealmakers” quip).
Useful for Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In
This episode is an essential listen for anyone hoping to understand the money-politics nexus of the Trump era, the peculiar relationship between Donald Trump and Jared Kushner, and the ways business interests shape American foreign policy in the Middle East. The dynamic between the host and guest keeps the tone lively, and Michael Wolff’s anecdotes and sharp takes provide context and color not typically found in news coverage.