How Mitch's Wife Blew Up Mystery With Bombshell

Summary

The Daily Beast Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: How Mitch's Wife Blew Up Mystery With Bombshell
Date: August 1, 2026
Host: Joanna Coles
Guests/Regulars: Michael Wolff, Hugh Doherty, Vivek Ranadive (special segment)

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Overview

This episode of The Daily Beast Podcast explores an exceptionally turbulent week in American politics, with a particular focus on the ongoing mystery surrounding Senator Mitch McConnell’s health, the bombshell actions (or pointed silence) of his wife Elaine Chao, and the broader implications for political maneuvering in Washington. Other key topics include the spectacle at Lindsey Graham's funeral, the GOP’s inner dramas, scandal in Ohio, revelations from Anthony Fauci’s diaries, and an America250 innovation segment on the future of sports and technology.

The tone is lively, sardonic, and sharply analytical, with the hosts diving deeply into the interplay of scandals, personalities, and political machinations.

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1. Where Is Mitch? The McConnell–Chao Mystery

Timestamps: [00:29]–[21:41]

Key Points

• Stark Lack of Information: Despite repeated media requests, there's been no satisfactory explanation or direct evidence of Mitch McConnell’s health/status. All the public has received are two “proof of life” photos.
  • “We have asked his office. We get no response. The lack of information is the key thing here.” (Michael Wolff, [00:29])
• The Role of Elaine Chao: Chao, McConnell’s wife and former Trump cabinet member, accepted an award this week but notably omitted mentioning her husband in her speech—sparking further speculation.
  • “She singly failed to mention her husband once in her speech.” (Joanna Coles, [09:45])
• Conspiracy Over Photos: Discrepancies in Chao's clothing and the lack of photo metadata have fueled doubts about when the images were taken and what they actually prove.
  • “Monday’s photo… was [Chao] wearing the same outfit as the one two weeks ago. Isn't it unusual for her to be wearing the same outfit?” (Joanna Coles, [13:17])
  • “They stripped it of its metadata… That’s immediately, people saying that’s suspicious.” (Michael Wolff, [16:34])
• Official Statements in Doubt: Only unverified press releases attribute statements to McConnell. No video or doctor’s testimony has been produced.
• Political Stakes: Kentucky’s law around August 3rd means the question of McConnell’s status could determine who controls his Senate seat through November, with possible constitutional ramifications.
  • “On August 3, if McConnell were to no longer be senator … that seat would remain empty … It’s potentially a constitutional crisis.” (Michael Wolff, [17:30])

Notable Quote:
“No one else in any office, I think, in the entire country could get away with pulling a Mitch McConnell.” (Joanna Coles, [21:08])

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2. Lindsey Graham’s Funeral and Republican Reflections

Timestamps: [01:17], [06:38], [25:02]

Key Moments

• Trump’s Awkward Eulogy: Donald Trump, apparently exhausted and confused, seemed to forget who Lindsey Graham was during the funeral, referring to him as “that person.”
  • “He had to look down at the coffin and say, that person. That person. When he was groping for the name Lindsey Graham.” (Joanna Coles, [26:13])
• Visible GOP Anxiety: Marco Rubio and J.D. Vance were described as visibly uneasy as Trump dozed off and rambled.
• Funeral as Microcosm: The event is presented as emblematic of the GOP’s disarray and Trump’s own aging and health issues.

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3. Broader GOP Shake-ups

A. Ohio Politics and the MAGA Crack-up

Timestamps: [29:14]–[38:23]

• Vivek Ramaswamy's Struggles: Once a tech darling, now a faltering candidate for Ohio governor, Ramaswamy is booed by his base in his hometown.
  • Notably heckled after saying, “My generation’s going to be fine.” (Vivek Ramaswamy, [35:04])
• Max Miller’s Scandal: GOP Rep. Max Miller, part of an intra-party MAGA family drama, faces severe abuse allegations from his wife (daughter of Senator Bernie Marino). The Republican response has been almost total silence.
  • “It's jaw-dropping and quite how bitter it is … the most bizarre part … Bernie Marino has said nothing in public about his daughter.” (Michael Wolff, [40:27], [43:00])
• Senate Races Heat Up: Amy Acton (Dem) and Jon Ossoff (Dem) emerge as surprisingly formidable contenders in deep-red states.

B. Darlene Graham and South Carolina

Timestamps: [56:42]–[64:33]

• Lindsey Graham’s sister, Darlene, is struggling in a messy, crowded GOP field for the Senate seat, despite Trump's endorsement. Her lack of political experience and past donations to pro-choice politicians are campaign liabilities.
• Dynasties and Backlash: Discussion around the public's frustration with political dynasties, as seen in Darlene Graham’s and Caroline Kennedy’s failed political launches.

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4. Fauci’s Diaries and Obama’s Thoughts on Trump

Timestamps: [44:36]–[55:06]

• RFK Jr. Uncovers Fauci’s “Diaries”: Cherry-picked passages were used to attack Fauci, but new excerpts cast him in a kindly, human light—especially details of his compassion for political adversaries and bemusement at sudden fame.
• Obama Unfiltered: President Obama privately calls Trump “a hopeless idiot” and Donald Trump Jr. “an effing moron”—a rare glimpse of candor.
  • “Obama said that Donald Trump Jr. is an effing moron... and [Trump] was a hopeless idiot who was a pathologic liar." (Michael Wolff, [51:32])
• The Human Factor: The hosts discuss the universal vulnerability that comes when personal diaries or candid texts become public.

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5. Special Segment: The Future of Sports, Tech, and the Lunar Economy

Guest: Vivek Ranadive
Timestamps: [67:00]–[86:42]

Highlights

• The “Emotion Economy” in Sports: Ranadive describes sports arenas as modern cathedrals, uniting people in a digital age of increasing isolation.
  • “Sports is what brings people together... the arena, sports stadiums as the 21st-century cathedral or the communal fireplace.” (Vivek Ranadive, [67:00])
• Data, Augmented Reality, and New Fan Experiences: Technology is revolutionizing everything, from personalized health tracking of stars to immersive virtual reality for fans across the globe.
• Lunar Data Centers: The next frontier is placing energy-hungry data centers in space—solving land, power, and cooling problems, but raising new security and geopolitical concerns.
  • “Space offers a solution to all of that … it's happening, it's happening soon, and we're going to all be using it.” (Vivek Ranadive, [77:50])
• AI Disruption: While AI will eliminate jobs, it will also create new opportunities, similar to past technological revolutions.
• Health & Sports: Already, AI is predicting player injuries and optimizing game time, reshaping coaching decisions.
  • “Every team will tell you that the most powerful person is the trainer, because the trainer decides how many minutes each player should play.” (Vivek Ranadive, [82:23])
• The Next 10 Years: Ranadive projects an era of exponential innovation, cross-disciplinary collaboration, and the ability “to be ferocious in the pursuit of the outrageous.”

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6. Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the Photo Drama:
  “Isn't it unusual for her to be wearing the same outfit?… given the context of this story, where we are very clearly not getting enough information.”
  (Joanna Coles, [13:17])
• Regarding Trump’s Funeral Behavior:
  “That was not the reaction of somebody that is an empath … That was somebody that doesn't want to deal with death.”
  (Michael Wolff, [24:17])
• Obama on Trump and Jr.:
  “Obama said that Donald Trump Jr. is an effing moron … Donald Trump was a hopeless idiot who was a pathologic liar.”
  (Michael Wolff, [51:32])
• On Sports as Modern Community:
  “I really see the arena, sports stadiums as... the communal fireplace. And technology plays a huge role.”
  (Vivek Ranadive, [67:00])
• On the Future:
  “As long as you're willing to be ferocious in the pursuit of outrageous, anything is possible.”
  (Vivek Ranadive, [86:35])

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7. Additional Political Soap Operas Covered

• Department of State’s Africa map blunder and blunders in international diplomacy ([05:40]).
• Republican infighting and the potential for surprise Democratic victories in typically red states ([37:06]).
• The lifecycle of political scandals and their effect on party reputation and unity.

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8. Noteworthy Segment Timestamps

• Mitch McConnell Mystery: [00:29]–[21:40], [16:28]–[17:21]
• Lindsey Graham Funeral / Trump Eulogy: [01:17], [25:02]–[26:46]
• Ohio GOP Drama (Ramaswamy/Miller): [29:14]–[44:36]
• Fauci’s Diary & Obama’s Private Calls: [44:36]–[55:06]
• South Carolina Senate Race (Darlene Graham): [56:42]–[64:33]
• Vivek Ranadive’s Innovation Segment: [67:00]–[86:42]

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9. Conclusion

The episode expertly weaves together current political mysteries, family feuds, funeral farces, and tech optimism, offering deep reporting and wry commentary. The McConnell–Chao “bombshell” saga frames wider questions about transparency, institutional decay, and the future of the GOP, while the innovation segment with Vivek Ranadive encourages listeners to ponder the unimaginable changes the next decade may bring in sports, AI, and even lunar infrastructure.

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For More

• Stories discussed in depth: thedailybeast.com
• Engage with America250 predictions using #America250

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“As long as you’re willing to be ferocious in the pursuit of outrageous, anything is possible.”
—Vivek Ranadive, [86:35]

Transcript

[Michael Wolff]

Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment

[Joanna Coles]

of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12 month plan. Required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy.

[Michael Wolff]

See terms I was going to call might be cold. Mitch Summer, we don't know. We have asked and asked and asked what is going on? Mitch McCulloch and we don't have satisfactory answers. We have been given the whole public, his voters, his constituents, the people who he serves have been given two photographs. The whole thing that we've been talking about now for more than 40 days. Mitch McConnell, where is the evidence? Where, where is the truth? They put out a picture, they stripped it of its metadata. Now, when we take pictures, normally it records where it was, what time it was, what the exposure was, which, you know, all these, all these details. We don't have any of that. We have asked his office. We get no response. The lack of information is the key thing here. Joanna

[Joanna Coles]

hello, I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Friday Podcast and we are catching up on Mitch McConnell's health. Did Donald Trump actually know who was in the coffin at Lindsey Graham's funeral? Because he seemed to forget not once, but at least twice. And what did Barack Hussein Obama actually say to Anthony Fauci about Don Trump Jr. It's all here. And who's here to explain it with us? Hugh Doherty, the executive editor of the Daily Beast. No one knows more about what's going on than Hugh. Before we get into it, I just want to remind you we are independent media. The reason we can bring you these stories and the angles that we do and we'll be going deep into what on earth is going on in Max Miller's divorce case. He's the Republican congressman and son in law of Ohio, Senator Bernie Moreno. I'm going to remind you that to subscribe, just smash the subscription button if you haven't done already and join the Daily Beast community. It's really fun in here and you can become a Beebeast member, you can become a friend of the Beast, but we rely on your support. Okay? As I said, no one knows more than Hugh Docherty. Let's get into it, Hugh. What a week. Lindsey Graham's funeral. We've had Bibi Netanyahu and Volodymyr Zelensky in town. Trump falling asleep at his close friend Lindsey Graham's funeral. Marco Rubio looking very anxious about him falling asleep. Trump appearing during his eulogy to forget whose eulogy he was giving, leaning down and going, that person. That person. Then we have the Darlene Graham of it all, Nepo candidate. We've also got Mitch McConnell that we're really going to get into. And I'm very excited about that. We've got Obama's real thoughts on Donald Trump emerging in Anthony Fauci's diary. I mean, what a week.

[Michael Wolff]

What a week. It's an amazing week, Joanna. These are so. I'll just say that the Daily Beast newsroom, those stories have been popping. This has been a week where our readers, our viewers, our listeners, thank you to all of you. Thank you to everybody who subscribes. We have been covering Mitch McConnell in incredible, incredible depth. We have been covering Donald Trump. And I should say, just as we are talking, Joanna, it is Friday morning or early Friday afternoon, and the president is at Camp David where he's taken his Cabinet on tour and he's putting a bow in kind of unreal week.

[Joanna Coles]

An unreal week. And of course, more bombing in Iran.

[Michael Wolff]

And he's bombing Iran.

[Joanna Coles]

I cannot think on this summer Friday of anywhere I suspect Donald Trump would less like to be than Camp David. It's just not his thing. And I was looking at the list of things that they get to do there, the leisure activities, tennis. I don't think I've ever seen the

[Michael Wolff]

There is one famous picture of Donald Trump playing tennis in the 90s. It is not flattering.

[Joanna Coles]

Fishing. Never seen him fish.

[Michael Wolff]

Nope.

[Joanna Coles]

And if he did fish, you know, he'd be going like this. It was this big. It was this big, very big fish. Very big fish. Fishing, tennis. Probably a meditation room, I would think, by this stage. Don't think he's going to be in there. There is some golf practice, but I bet the golf at Camp David's probably not as good as some of the golf courses he actually owns, at least

[Michael Wolff]

in his own view.

[Joanna Coles]

Of course, in his own view. Who else?

[Michael Wolff]

And I think you missed a chapel, Joanna.

[Joanna Coles]

I missed the chapel where I'm assuming that J.D. vance and Pete Hegseth, the two most religious, I think, members of the cabinet, though I can't speak for Linda McMahon, I'm sure they're spending a lot of time thinking, what am I doing here? How do I get out of this? Pete Hegseth the war. You are going to be blamed for the war that they cannot get out of. And the good news is, at least they're all in America. Because if they were in Africa, they would be in the wrong country. I'm sure everybody by now has seen that humiliating presentation by the State Department labeling the wrong countries in Africa.

[Michael Wolff]

Absolutely incredible. And luckily, Joanna, we, we. We can see right now the weird, bad labeling of this map. It seems that they got something wrong when the AI is. Seems to be. Seems to be AI generated. They gave up in Cameroon. They just were like, oh, we don't even know where that is. We have relabeled this map for them. And for those of you watching on YouTube, you probably knew who they were. The State Department didn't know where they were.

[Joanna Coles]

That's what they're paid to do. I have spent a lot of time actually in Africa and I couldn't identify every single country. Cause there are a lot of them. But I'm not representing America for the State Department. And if I were, I would have learned the map off by heart. The fact that nobody knew, nobody bothered to check. This is the Department of State.

[Michael Wolff]

It's so on tour. They went to Brazil. I mean, we know they went to Brazil. I don't know. Did they know they were in Brazil? They may not have known.

[Joanna Coles]

They may have thought they were in Argentina.

[Michael Wolff]

They could well have thought they were in Argentina.

[Joanna Coles]

So does Donald Trump think he's at Camp David? Where does he think he is? Because he didn't know who was in the coffin at Lindsey Graham's funeral. He didn't know. He just kept saying that person. That person.

[Michael Wolff]

I'll just say this is.

[Joanna Coles]

Who does that at a funeral?

[Michael Wolff]

Donald J. Trump.

[Joanna Coles]

Donald J. Trump. But who is he again? Just remind us. Oh, the President of the free world.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, the leader of the free world. The President of the United States. You've just promoted him.

[Joanna Coles]

I have just promoted him. But he is, you know, incredibly important, as we know from the price of Brent Crude.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

Anyway, where do we begin, Hugh? Do we begin with Elaine Chow?

[Michael Wolff]

I think this week I was going to call it Hot Mitch Summer. But it might be cold. Mitch Summer. We don't know.

[Joanna Coles]

Lobster roll. Mitch Summer. Because he was wearing. Yes, we got the picture of him. He was wearing a red gingham shirt, which to me shrieks main and lobster rolls.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. Another thing that you can't imagine Trump having any engagement in at all.

[Joanna Coles]

Absolutely not.

[Michael Wolff]

So, yeah, this week has been just an incredible series of developments on the Mitch McConnell mystery. Where is Mitch McConnell? What is going on? And what is the involvement of his wife, Elaine Chow? And these stories, I just say these are stories that we have been following in huge depth on the Daily Beast. And I just want to give a big shout out. I said already. Thank you for subscribing. The elite media have ignored this, Joanna. The sort of the, the Washington dinner party circuit. Don't want to Talk about Mitch McConnell not being present. Where is Mitch McConnell? If you were to leave this to the people that write these sort of elite insidery things, you would never find out. Thank you to our subscribers because you have been able to help us keep reporting on this scandal. And it is a scandal. But let's talk about the mystery. And I think it's the mystery of Elaine Chow that is.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it's the mystery of a particular photo, isn't it? Well, there are two elements. One, there is a photo which doesn't appear to have a timestamp and has led to all sorts of conspiracies. And we can talk about that in a second. Also, interestingly, this week, Elaine Chao accepted an award. She was, of course, Donald Trump's transportation Secretary. She received an award for her work through the airline industry.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, it's the, I'm looking down so I get this, right, the Donald D. Engen Trophy for Aviation Excellence. She received it at a luncheon in D.C. on Wednesday. And this is, I mean, her husband's in hospital. I think anybody who's been in this situation of having an elderly relative needing hospital care, or in this case, according to his statements, his office's statements, rehabilitation, care, obviously life has to go on. Obviously, you can't say give everything up. Anyway, she made this appearance and it raised a lot of eyebrows.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it raised a lot of eyebrows because she singly failed to mention her husband once in her speech. She didn't even say thank you to all the well wishers who've reached out to me and Mitch. We really appreciate it. He's working hard on his rehab. He'll be back soon. I mean, we're told by his team and as you've pointed out, his chief of staff is a senior member, obviously of his team. He earns 226,000. And they've told us, they've reassured us that Mitch is working on affairs of state. Yet we have no evidence that he can speak.

[Michael Wolff]

No, absolutely no evidence. We have nothing from his wife, despite her appearing in public. And we have nothing from his office. We ask, we constantly ask for updates. We also have no word from Scott Jennings, the maga, a CNN provocateur who.

[Joanna Coles]

Newly bearded.

[Michael Wolff]

Newly bearded has, of course, said that he spent 20 minutes talking to Mitch McConnell. And that was way back, almost at the very start of this, at the start of July, he was in fact challenged on cnn. And we have the clip, and it's pretty remarkable.

[Joanna Coles]

Can I ask you, because you actually were invoked the other night on the show about your former boss, Senator Mitch McConnell. Have you spoken to him recently on the phone?

[Michael Wolff]

No, I haven't spoken to him. Talk to him early on, and I'm in touch with his office, but I haven't spoken to him recently. We could.

[Vivek Ranadive]

Should we.

[Michael Wolff]

Do we want to FaceTime him?

[Vivek Ranadive]

No.

[Michael Wolff]

Okay.

[Joanna Coles]

I thought the language there that Scott Jennings used was interesting. He said, I talked to him. Yes, I talked to him.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

Which is what you're encouraged to do when people are in a state, you know, a potentially sort of comatose state. Now, we're not saying that about Mitch McConnell. We just want answers. He's a working member of the Senate. His team have reassured us that he's busy on affairs of state, but he wasn't able to take the vote for Todd Blanche. So what is Mitch McConnell's state? We're not the only people asking. Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky, a Democratic governor in a red state, in a, well, Republican state, which is a red state, also asking questions, saying, what are his constituents supposed to think?

[Michael Wolff]

So we have asked and asked and asked what is going on with Mitch McConnell? And, you know, let's just be honest about this. We don't have satisfactory answers.

[Joanna Coles]

So can we talk about the photo?

[Michael Wolff]

So that's exactly, that's what we have been given. The whole public, his voters, his constituents, the people who he serves, have been given two photographs. One, the first one, as you say, with the sort of gingham shirt shouting Maine, although he is, of course, from Kentucky. And then the second, Proof of life. That was the first Proof of Life photo on July 12. The second one was released on July 27 on Monday, and his office said that it was taken on July 26th. And as you can see, it shows him not in lobster outfit, but in a very, very normal Oxford button, blue, Oxford button down, with, again, Elaine Chau at his side. And a significant detail of all this, which I know, Joanna, you have been absolutely on top of, well, is that

[Joanna Coles]

Elaine Chow is wearing the same outfit in that photo as the day she went to visit him two weeks earlier when she was spotted coming out with a big blue or a dark blue trench coat, which was odd because Washington is so hot at this time of year. And the same outfit that she was wearing in the second Proof of Life photo which came out this Monday.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

So a lot of people speculating that is it possible that Monday's photo was actually taken a couple of weeks ago? Because isn't it unusual for her to be wearing the same outfit? Now? I, as regular observers of the podcast, will know those who see it on a video platform. I constantly wear the same T shirts and blazers and things. But it's an odd coincidence given the context of this story, where we are very clearly not getting enough information.

[Michael Wolff]

So one of the things, and I hesitate to talk about female clothing because this is not my area of expertise, do not follow me. For female fashion tips, go to Joanna. But people noticed that it appeared in this Proof of Life photo. She was wearing a blouse, I believe is the term blouse, which cost $15 at Chico's. And that seems off brand. And the reason that I say it seems off brand is in fact a family friend, Jeffrey Yang, who is a very well connected, he's a cultural commentator on Asian American culture particularly, he was at Harvard with two of Elaine Chow's younger sisters. He knows the Chao family very well and described her as the most put together woman he has ever known and that she would never normally wear this sort of outfit. Well, and it's possible she wore it twice.

[Joanna Coles]

She wore it twice. It's possible that she grabbed clothes, you know, from round the corner. Perhaps there's a Chico's near the hospital. She was in a hurry. But it's. If it's true that it is a Chico's shirt, that seems an odd choice for Elaine Chow because when we saw her picking up her award for airline excellence, she was in a much more glamorous.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

And she's always looking very put together. Not that there's anything wrong with a Chico's shirt, but she's the daughter of a billionaire. She was a cabinet minister. Mitch McConnell and Elaine Chao have plenty of money. It's an odd choice. And it's an odd choice for her to be wearing it twice and to be in the photos wearing it's perfectly nice shirt. It's got little kind of apricot flowers on it, but it's odd. And certainly the conspiracy theorists out there are saying we don't think that Monday's photo was taken on Monday. Or Sunday.

[Michael Wolff]

On Sunday, Right. And here's the whole thing that we've been talking about now for more than 40 days of Mitch McConnell. Where is the evidence? Where is the truth? So they put out a picture. They said it was taken on Sunday the 26th. There's no metadata on the picture. There's no knowledge of who took it. There's no knowledge of exactly where it was.

[Joanna Coles]

It appears to be in the same room.

[Michael Wolff]

Appears to be in the same room.

[Joanna Coles]

The light sort of, there's a kind of thing on the wall right behind it.

[Michael Wolff]

But we are, because of this lack of transparency, they didn't ask the Associated Press or Reuters to send, you know, to cut they didn't invite a neutral, respected news photographer to come and take this picture. And that person obviously, would be, you know, would clearly be a reliable source of information. Instead, they put out a picture, they stripped it of its metadata. Now, when we take pictures normally on our, you know, we all take them on this. It records where it was, what time it was, what the exposure was, which, you know, all these, all these details, we don't have any of that. That's immediately people saying that's suspicious. We have asked his office. We get no response. And, you know, the lack of information is the key thing here, Joanna. Well, and also because they can't know what the truth is.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. And let's also remind people why the, the clock is ticking on this. Why is this particularly significant?

[Michael Wolff]

So we are at, we're discussing this today. On July 31, on August, Monday, August 3, a deadline comes into effect under laws which were passed by Republicans in Kentucky, which would prevent a special election being declared to replace a senator who was resigning at that point or who had vacated office by dying. So this is the law, as it appears to stand in Kentucky, and I'll explain that in a second. But on August 3rd, if Mitch McConnell were to no longer be senator for whatever reason, on August 3, his seat would remain empty until the new election that takes place, the general election in November, where there is a whole slate of candidates running there. There's not a whole slate. There's a Democratic and Republican candidate running in Kentucky to take his seat because he had already said he was retiring. He did not run for reelection. But Aug. 3 is the crucial date. The Republicans in that state believe that on August 3, if he resigns or if it were to be announced that he had died, that seat would just be empty. And that's, it's probably, it's not the best outcome for Republicans to have an empty Senate seat. But it's a better outcome than having an election for one, which would be, you know, a whole media spectacle. It would be money. It would be a problem. On top of that, it's also potentially a constitutional crisis because Andy Bashir, the governor, who has not heard from Mitch McConnell's staff, never mind Mitch McConnell, since, since June 14th, he says that he does not recognize this law and that he probably has the power to appoint a senator temporarily. And he's a Democrat. So who do you think he would appoint? And of course, that would change the mathematics that underlie the Senate. It wouldn't give the Democrats a majority, but you know, in this.

[Joanna Coles]

But it would slim the majority. The Democrats need four votes to win the Senate. And of course, with John Cornyn and Thom Tillis feeling somewhat freer because they're both leaving because they were primaried by Trump candidates and both, well, Thom Tillis was retiring and John Cornyn got primaried. They're feeling more resilient against Donald Trump, I think. And they're the two holdouts, of course, for Todd Blanche being appointed. Yes.

[Michael Wolff]

And there could be more to come on this. So the Mitch McConnell situation, let's just review some of this. We, you know, he's a senator. We, I think it's reasonable for taxpayers to expect a degree of transparency about these things. We don't really know what condition he has. We know that his office have put out statements which are attributed to him. We don't know if he said that because there's no video, as we've said over and over. And as Scott Jennings was very awkwardly challenged to provide on CNN on Thursday night, there's no evidence from, there's no statement from a doctor that offers any definitive statement about what is wrong and what is happening. Then on top of that, there have been sightings of Elaine Chow in which her hair is different. People are looking at what is emerging in public and trying to work out what's happening. The basic responsibility, it would seem here is for the Senate or the Republicans in the Senate would surely be to come clean and say this is what's happening with Mitch McConnell. But here is his doctor to speak.

[Joanna Coles]

And if I were a Republican senator, I would want to know. I mean, again, we go back to the fact that would this pass in your office, Those of you out there who are working, would you be able to do this? Just send in a photo to your office, say, hey, I'm not doing so well right now, but here's a picture of me in hospital and working hard at my rehab. I'll see you when I see you. But I won't be around for the next few votes. I mean, no one else in any office, I think, in the entire country could get away with pulling Mitch McConnell.

[Michael Wolff]

And McConnell is now heading towards 40 for 0 missed votes in the Senate. And it's worth pointing out there haven't been that many meaningful votes in the Senate while he's been out of office or out of action, which has nothing to do with him. That's to do with the complete dysfunction of the Republican Party in the Senate. But the basic job of a senator is to vote.

[Joanna Coles]

So let me just ask you one thing, and then we can move on. But why hasn't Donald Trump said more about this? Why hasn't he said, hey, Mitch, I hope you're doing well. Send us a video. We want to know you're okay?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, this is absolutely a key question about Trump. First of all, we know Trump hates Mitch McConnell. He called him the old crow, Elaine Chao. He also hates because she resigned very publicly on January 6, saying, I'm not into this. And it was very, very personal to Trump. Now, they did not rebuild any sort of relationship. They hate each other. However, Donald Trump needs the Senate, and he needs something from Mitch McConnell. If it's not his vote, it's that he needs Mitch McConnell to not vote against him. So Mitch being out is not the end of the world for Trump, because the alternative of this possible messy special election, that's a nightmare.

[Joanna Coles]

Do you think if Mitch McConnell were back in the Senate, he would be voting against appointing or confirming Todd Blanche as Attorney General?

[Michael Wolff]

It's highly likely. It's highly likely. We know that he voted against RFK Jr. He voiced public doubts about many people before, you know, and many of the aspects of how the Trump administration was behaving. He's an institutionalist. His personal animus was clearly on show. It's highly likely that as a retiring senator with deep personal dislike of Trump. Yeah, and he was particularly. Mitch McConnell was particularly incensed about January 6th because it was an attack on the institution that he had made. Now, we can all debate.

[Joanna Coles]

And his colleagues and his colleagues and

[Michael Wolff]

his colleagues, we can all debate the rights and wrongs of how he ran the Senate, possibly one for another day. But, yeah, he was so angry about January 6th, this slush fund of January 6th payouts, there's no way he'd have supported that. So I think he's kind of got a bit of, you know, Trump's kind of got a bit of a benefit here that there's not another voice publicly opposing Todd Blanche.

[Vivek Ranadive]

However,

[Michael Wolff]

it's not, you know, he doesn't want the mess. He doesn't want the public scandal, frankly, about an old man failing in public. Hello? Who else has got health questions? Who else? Are people going like, are you sure you're all there? Donald Trump? So staying silent on Mitch McConnell is so obviously tactical. It's so obviously important to him that doesn't really want to raise this. He doesn't want to raise age, and he doesn't want to raise death. Look at his reaction to Lindsey Graham and the funeral. That was not the reaction of somebody that is an empath who wants to understand, who understands what people's pain is. That was somebody that doesn't want to deal with death.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, he also looked like he was exhausted. And we know he spends half the night up posting, but the fact that he kept falling asleep and dozing off, and of course, his staff said, oh, no, he was just very moved. He was just sitting there thinking deeply about Lindsey Graham. It was absolutely obvious he wasn't. He was doing that thing where you jerk your head up when, you know, you could see Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, behind him, sort of looking anxious about it. You could see J.D. vance staring at the coffin, looking sort of, I think, a little tortured about the whole environment. But Trump seemed to forget who was in the coffin. I mean, he literally said during his eulogy, which it was clear he hadn't read before he got up there, because he got up there and he said, Lindsay was beloved by everybody. And then he went, wait a minute. No, he wasn't. Which was funny and a moment. And I suggested to Michael Wolff, it's actually why people like Trump, because he has that moment where, you know, he's been handed something to read, it's been written by his advisors, and he's like, what is this? I'm not gonna do this. He said that. In fact, at the White House correspondence last week when he did bombing, he was like, who wrote this?

[Michael Wolff]

Who wrote?

[Joanna Coles]

And we should find out who did write it. Cause I wonder if they're still employed. But the fact that he had to look down at the coffin and say, that person. That person. When he was groping for the name Lindsey Graham, now we've all forgotten people's names. I do it all the time at this point, but that was particularly unfortunate.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, we all forget people's names. You know, it's part of human experience. I'll just point out when you are delivering a eulogy to somebody that you described as one of your closest friends and quite honestly, whose name is going

[Joanna Coles]

to be on the front, right on

[Michael Wolff]

the paper, you know, the service order. Hard to forget. Well, it's kind of hard to forget and somehow unless there are questions over your health.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. And also, and you're an 80 year old man, he's in his 90th decade, we know he's throwing back aspirin and he's got chronic venous insufficiency, which means his circulation is poor. And he's probably pre diabetic, I would think.

[Michael Wolff]

I'm not a doctor, Joanna. I do not even play one on television.

[Joanna Coles]

I'm very happy to play armchair doctor with Donald Trump because he's the President and I don't feel that we get the truth out of his many visits to hospital.

[Michael Wolff]

And this, this kind of goes to the Mitch McConnell situation. We never got adequate explanations for what was happening to Mitch McConnell in public. We all remember when he froze. We remember that there have been falls.

[Joanna Coles]

Terrible moment, a terrible moment.

[Michael Wolff]

You know, the tragedy of aging happening in public is that what should be something that people are able to deal with with their loved ones present is happening in front of all of us. And these are people who do not want to surrender the reins of power. And I think it's impossible that Trump does not see the parallels when he sees about whatever he sees about the Mitch McConnell situation. But the other parallel is, tell us the truth here. We ask the White House about the vein, about the marks on Donald Trump's hands, about his ankles, about his falling asleep, about his slurring, about the strange walk that has been observed with his

[Joanna Coles]

right leg sort of swinging around.

[Michael Wolff]

And you know, we get responses like we asked about the walk, he walked to Marine One and he was weaving. And the response that came from Stephen Cheung was that was an effing perfect walk. Are you blind? Now, that's not transparency that makes people believe that Donald Trump is in good shape. The thing is Basically the Mitch McConnell response, right?

[Joanna Coles]

And because Donald Trump insists on doing so many press conferences, he says, oh, well, that's transparency. Joe Biden did none of these, which is largely true. But the problem with that level of performing in front of the camera the whole time is you're very, very exposed and people can see that the President doesn't appear to be, well, he appears to be an 80 year old man who doesn't really look after his health apart from throwing back a handful of aspirin every day.

[Michael Wolff]

Super sized, super sized, super sized.

[Joanna Coles]

Because he wants thin blood. Good for him. All right, so let's move on to a character we haven't thought about for a bit. But in fact, he had a tough week too. I'm talking about Vivek Ramaswamy. Remember him? The tech guy who is now running for governor of Ohio, where he grew up in Ohio.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, exactly. He's a native of Ohio. He's running to be the Republican governor of his home state. And those who remember Vivek Ramaswamy will remember that he is, I think a voluble character is one way to put it. Fast talking, frequent public appearances. And of course, he bombed out of the Republican primary long ago. He thought he saw Lane to be MAGA after maga Trump. And of course that might work at some point in the future. But there was a problem with being MAGA after Trump. When Trump was saying, no, no, I'm still here.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Michael Wolff]

He then got into, he got into, I was going to say a business with Elon Musk, but unfortunately the business was Doge and the business was destroying the government.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Michael Wolff]

But he fell out with Elon Musk before they even got near the levers of power and.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, probably quite a good career move to leave Elon Musk. Yes. I mean, it was pretty much, see, and the two of them were supposed to be running and then it was a matter of weeks before Ramaswamy realized, I can't possibly do this. And I'm sure Elon thought, I don't want him hanging around. I've got my chainsaw, I've got my hair extensions, I'm just gonna go for it.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

And of course he had big balls, his 19 year old. He had big balls with his little army of guys who all wanted to sleep in the office.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. And you know, whatever else you say about Vivek Ramaswamy, he's 40, which is a bit basically double the age of the Doge crew.

[Vivek Ranadive]

Right.

[Michael Wolff]

He is a billionaire, mostly thanks to one pharma holding that he has. And he's gone back to his native Cincinnati. He's running for governor. And the reason that we're talking about him is because it has very publicly gone really wrong to an extent that people are saying this deep, what we thought was deep red Trump country, Ohio could have a Democratic governor once people go to the polls in November. But.

[Joanna Coles]

So he's the Republican candidate.

[Michael Wolff]

Republican candidate.

[Joanna Coles]

There's a very strong Democratic candidate and the polls turn out to be much closer than anybody expected. This was assumed to be a walk in for. Yes. For him.

[Michael Wolff]

You thought he was going to walk this Amy Acton, who is running as the Democrat, she was the state's top medical officer during COVID Now, I just said it was deep red state Trump country. So she was the top medical officer to a Republican governor. So this is not the Democratic Socialists of America here. This is somebody who is from the very center of the Democratic Party. She had a big profile in the media. And Ohio is unusual. It's not a huge state, as we know, but has three expensive media markets, Columbus, Cincinnati and Cleveland. Which means if you have been on the TV a lot beforehand in the state of Ohio, you actually get a head start. And she has that she has a weak Republican candidate. Let's just be honest about this, facing her up, because Vivek has not been on screen much and not been much on local television in Ohio. He has, however, been a fixture on Fox News in the past. And the polls, the latest polling put the two of them neck and neck in the New York times and Siena, 47 to 47, 3% undecided. And another one, which I think was taken just towards the end of June by Fox News, end of June and beginning of July, she was 1 point ahead. Now, Trump won Ohio by 54 to 45. So this was, you know, absolutely Trump country, however, also J.D.

[Joanna Coles]

vance country, because he lived there at one point and of course he was the senator from Ohio.

[Michael Wolff]

So it's actually quite, it's kind of intriguing. Vivek Ramaswamy and JD Vance are almost the same age. JD's at 41. Vivek is 40. Yeah, they are from basically Vesomore, Vivec is from Cincinnati and JD is from Middletown, which is a kind of. It's part of the Cincinnati metro area. And do you know what I said, I believe a couple of editions of the podcast ago, I described it as a Cincinnati suburb. It is not, I meant to say exurb, but even that it's far enough out from Cincinnati that it's part of the greater Cincinnati metro area and, you know, the Cincinnati sports teams and things like that, but it's not part of Cincinnati. So, sorry for those who were in the comments, you're absolutely right. I was wrong in that and I, I do apologise. But we have two guys from the same place, very similar careers at Yale Law School at the same time, went into tech and sort of investing at the same time. And one is the vice president and the other might be governor, might not,

[Joanna Coles]

but is a billionaire.

[Michael Wolff]

But is a billionaire, which I imagine

[Joanna Coles]

would have liked to have been at one point.

[Michael Wolff]

Absolutely. However, what we saw this week in Ohio and we can lay the tape, cuz it's quite a phenomenon that you're

[Vivek Ranadive]

successful and can actually create wealth and

[Michael Wolff]

create success instead of villainizing it.

[Vivek Ranadive]

Peace out.

[Joanna Coles]

See you guys. Lot of booing going.

[Michael Wolff]

Lot of booing.

[Joanna Coles]

And that was a right wing crowd.

[Michael Wolff]

That was a right wing crowd. That was a special conference of young right wingers in Xavier University. And particularly hurtfully, I think to Vivek, that was in his hometown of Cincinnati and he's from actually a privileged background. He went to the prep school attached to Xavier and that's Cincinnati's most prestigious boys school. So I imagine being booed on your home turf by your own people is really not what you want.

[Joanna Coles]

What specifically was their beef with him?

[Michael Wolff]

He, as you rightly said, he's a billionaire. He said my generation's going to be fine. And that didn't go down well with a crowd of young right wingers who felt that they were being talked down to and patronized by somebody who was boasting that he'd already made it. And they, you know, quite understandably have not made it. And do you want somebody saying I'm all right, Jack, to use a very old fashioned British and petly expression. You don't.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, he also said do you want to be winners or winers?

[Michael Wolff]

Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

Which sounded very Margaret Thatcher actually it did a bit right kind of thing he would have said. So all these phrases just get recirculated, don't they?

[Michael Wolff]

And it's hard to know what's going to happen in this Ohio race. This is not what we thought was going to happen in Ohio. We also have polling in Ohio, by the way, that the Senate race there, the Democrat, Sherrod Brown, who previously was a senator.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah.

[Michael Wolff]

According to Fox, it's 5,000, 345. He's up against. John Husted, who has been a longtime legislator in Ohio, is currently the sitting senator. But there are swirling corruption problems for the Republican Party there and it looks very likely that there's going to be a Democratic center back from Ohio, which is not what anybody thought was going to happen.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. And it's so exciting at this stage because this really is sort of, it's gladiatorial, some of the contests going on. And obviously we have the Democratic primary in Michigan next week. Huge, huge primary funding, enormous amount of money flowing into that state. So let's.

[Michael Wolff]

And just on the subject of enormous amount of money, Jon Ossoff is raising bucket loads of Money running for re election to the Senate in Georgia.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, after two spectacular performances, one with Jay Clayton and one with Pete Hegson. Yes.

[Michael Wolff]

And the polling there. Even MAGA's own polling pollster, Tony Fabrizio has got him in 52 points. And Mike Collins, his MAGA Warrior opponent, on 43 points.

[Joanna Coles]

Or Pinky Herman as Donald Trump.

[Michael Wolff]

Pinky Herman refers to him, which we

[Joanna Coles]

have no idea who you're talking about. Donald Trump, who are you talking about? Who is Pinky Herman?

[Michael Wolff]

Donald, if you're in the comments, tell us.

[Joanna Coles]

Donald, if you're in the comments. Stephen Chung, if you're in the comments, tell us who is Pinky Herman? Please tell us. So staying with Ohio, more bad attention for the Republican representative there, Max Miller, who's been accused of abusing his ex wife. Well, they're currently in divorce.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

And she's claimed that he was violent against her. He put a gun to her at one point that he hit her. Really bad accusations.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. And he denies those accusations. And this is incredibly bitter split. I mean, it's jaw dropping and quite how bitter it is. Let's just step back a minute, step back a second. Explain who we're talking about. Max Miller is a representative. He represents a swathe of the west side of Cleveland. What had once been very Democratic territory had appeared to be safe Trump country. He had a kind of MAGA fairy tale. Let's, you know, let's talk about love. In a love in the time of Maga, he married love in the time of Maga, he married Emily Marino, the daughter of Bernie Marino, who is now the senator for Ohio, the senior senator, in fact, from Ohio. He car salesman in in the past in in Cleveland, became a big mega figure, got into crypto. He's worth serious amounts of money, hundreds of millions of dollars. And max young thrusting MAGA figure. He DJed for Donald Trump. Donald Trump referred to him as the dj.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, shouldn't he? Isn't that just playing YMCA repeatedly?

[Michael Wolff]

It's pretty easy, right?

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Michael Wolff]

Barzil, he married another young glamorous MAGA figure, Emily Marino. They got married at Bedminster because where else would you go?

[Joanna Coles]

Well, that's more than Don Jr. Did.

[Michael Wolff]

That's true. And then this marriage, the child, it went off the rails as soon as the child was born. We get into horrific abuse allegations that have gone on now. We at the Daily Beast have reported this since 2024 when it first became a thing. And again, I just want to say others have ignored this. It's exploded this week because the New York Times reported on it, and I'm very glad they did. We at the Daily Beast have been covering this going back two years.

[Joanna Coles]

And I think there's one particular accusation where she says she's changing their baby's diaper. He comes in and pushes her against the wall.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, again, Max Miller denies all this. He has sued his estranged wife for defamation. He has alleged that she is mentally ill. And the most bizarre part of this is he and Bernie Marino are part of the same congressional delegation. Benley Marino has said nothing in public about his daughter, about the allegations of abuse against his former or his estranged son in law. And this is Bernie Marino who delivered an F bomb to Tony Fauci during this very heated Senate hearing with the former director of the National Institute of the nih. Who the F do you think you are? He said. And yet people have been relentlessly pointing out he's got nothing to say about a man who's accused of putting a gun to his daughter's head and a man who's accused of, who denies, but who's accused of breaking one of their, one of his granddaughter's bones. It's absolutely horrendous abuse allegations. There has been significant law enforcement involvement. And Max Miller is. Now, it appears there has been some very, very little polling because as we all know now there's not enough polling out there. But it appears that he might be in a one point race in his district in the west side of Cleveland. But this is an incredible turn of the weather, I suppose, for the Democrats that they have, you know, they have a figure that they're going up against who's accused of.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, and he was young, he was attractive, he appeared to have all the promise of the kind of Republican Party behind him. And now this is definitely stopping him.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. And you know, this was, I said this was like some sort of fairy tale. He's from a very rich family that developed redeveloped downtown Cleveland. Bernie Marino made a lot of money with this amazing immigrant story. Came from Colombia, he became a car salesman. He was the face of the North. Olmsted, Automile. These are big names in this area. And this soap opera like explosion of allegations, and yet Bernie Marino was not saying anything.

[Joanna Coles]

What do you think Bernie Marino's silence means?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I think it means that drawing attention to it is really bad for the Republican cause, full stop. That's. This is. The Republicans don't need this. You know, they have been. The Republicans are very good at attacking Democrats when there are allegations against them. We saw that with Graham Platner, but on the back foot they've been pretty good at, you know, sort of the Teflon. The thing about Trump is he's Teflon. Right. Trump is a felon. Trump has been adjudicated credibly, have committed a sexual assault. He has endless court cases against him and it's all bounced off and down the ballot. There has been some degree of similar effect, but when allegations reach a level where people are repulsed just by the allegation, whether it is true or not. And just to repeat, Max Miller very robustly denies these allegations.

[Joanna Coles]

And having divorce proceedings which bring out the worst in every.

[Michael Wolff]

This is ugly. Divorce proceedings in public are really bad for anybody. And for Bernie Marino, you don't need this, you don't need this, you know, this taint attaching itself to your party. He doesn't, you know, Bernie Marino clearly wouldn't like his son in law to lose an election because there's a degree of personal humiliation. He obviously wouldn't like the Ohio delegation to become more democratic because he is an ultra MAGA loyalist. And you know what's going to happen? Trump's going to turn around and blame Bernie Marino for this. Let's be honest about it.

[Joanna Coles]

So Anthony Fauci was being, as you said, lambasted by Bernie Marino and his diaries are. That came to surface because when RFK Jr went into health and Human Services, he found Anthony Fauci's diaries on a government server, correct?

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. This says something about the weird spitefulness of RFK Jr. If you were appointed to run the, you know, this is the absolutely critical part of the government HHS. What would be in the top 10 or top 100 things that you do check the old emails of a former member of staff.

[Joanna Coles]

RFK Jr finds these diaries and interestingly, he's a man who's been hoist on his own diary petard by Isabel Vincent, who was given his diaries during his divorce from his late wife Mary, Mary Richardson. So he's a man who knows how powerful diaries can be when used against someone.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, this, it's hard to know what goes through the mind of RFK Jr. Obviously for, you know.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it's the brain worm that goes through the mind of RFK Jr. I just think that I'm not sure how much, I'm not sure how much processing is going on at this point.

[Michael Wolff]

It's a very good question. I, you know, was it him? Was it the brain worm? But I, either way, somebody, one or the other, instructed the staff to go and check Anthony Fauci's emails and they found that he had been keeping. They were calling it a diary because it's a fair description. It's, you know, it's like what he did, what he was doing that day, who spoke to him, you know, he notate. He keeps articles about the spread of COVID It's fairly obvious, by the way, that Anthony Fauci had probably been doing this for decades, probably, I imagine, in a notebook first and then on a computer. And some of it is very, very banal, some of it is, you know, incredibly detailed about the science of COVID But there are a whole load of things in it that have come out. And this, you know, I don't imagine for a second Anthony Fauci expected it to come to light. And the Republicans cherry picked parts of it to attack him. They also redacted parts which made clear his compassion to Katie and Stephen Miller, who are two of the most outspoken people. They want him jailed. They whip up the mob to go after Anthony Fauci. And yet they were asking him what to do when Stephen Miller and Katie Miller both got Covid.

[Joanna Coles]

Well. And he was giving them personal advice. He was giving personal advice, acting as their sort of medical advisor. At one point she was pregnant. And then they turn around and demand he goes to jail. And now Katie Miller, as we reported in the Daily Beast, is pretending that that was all a sort of false, you know, she was laying false trails to show how bad Anthony Fauci was.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. Which is kind of weird because the only way that she was leaving that false trail, those breadcrumbs were in his private diary that she didn't know he was keeping. And that wouldn't have come out if he hadn't been doing it on a government server, which she would not have known about. So she obviously was playing, I don't know, is that 5D chess there. She really was, if you believe her, she was really thinking ahead. Props to her, I guess. Honestly, that sounds like, well, explanation and

[Joanna Coles]

not unlike Vivek Ramaswamy. Another connection. She went to work with Elon Musk.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

And left dead very quickly.

[Michael Wolff]

She, she was in a very bizarre triangle with Steven. With Stephen Miller and Elon Musk. Very, very strange circumstance, concentric circles.

[Joanna Coles]

But anyway, Anthony Fauci's diary was used against him. But now it transpires that there's actually comments that he reported in his diary from Barack Obama.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

Or Barack Hussein.

[Michael Wolff]

Oh, yes, we should say Hussein.

[Joanna Coles]

Hussein. Right. As Donald Trump would say, actually making it very clear. Something that he doesn't often do how much he despised Donald Trump.

[Michael Wolff]

These are an amazing insight because Tony Fauci wrote down how he had received a call on his cell phone from President Obama. And we can see some of that extract on screen. In fact, President Obama wanted to praise him and wanted to support him because of the crazy things that people on the right were saying. And we know that Obama has been incredibly guarded about what he says about Donald Trump. He barely uses his name. I think he is hyper conscious of what would be said about him as the first black president going after Trump. We know the racial animus that exists from maga. We know all these issues.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, then the thing of calling Michelle a man.

[Michael Wolff]

Exactly.

[Joanna Coles]

Which Weilslar that the fighter did at UFC on the White House and was not criticized.

[Michael Wolff]

He was. Oh, that's hilarious. And you know, we go back to

[Joanna Coles]

birth JD Vance just shrugging. JD Vance, who's got the nerve to put out a book claiming that this is his journey back to faith shrugging when asked by Joe Rogan about calling, you know, the UFC fighter, calling Michelle Obama a man.

[Michael Wolff]

And you know, Tony Fauci tells us what President Obama says when he's not in front of those places that are going to become fodder for, you know, the sort of the Facebook maga. Right. Tony Fauci said, I told President Obama about the crazy things that the far right Republicans were doing, including the fact that Donald Trump Jr. Had on his website the sale of sweatshirts and T shirts to collect money for his campaign. And on the T shirts and sweatshirts it said Fauci kills puppies.

[Joanna Coles]

So this was to do with the fact that the NIH had been found to have been doing some animal testing.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, they'd been doing some animal research. Some research on animals. That's. I mean, you know, people get very emotional about this issue because it's a

[Joanna Coles]

horrible thing to think about, though clearly necessary in certain drug development.

[Michael Wolff]

You know, it's a huge debate about this. Let's not open that can of worms. But this was opportunistically seized upon just by elements of the right because they felt, you know, this would get people emotional. And one of those people was Donald Trump Jr. Donald Trump Jr. Prolific hunter. Just worth reminding people this is somebody

[Joanna Coles]

that constantly shot with the heads of

[Michael Wolff]

animals that he's shot the tail of an elephant.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Michael Wolff]

So anyway, apparently evinced a lot of sympathy for puppies. There we go. And Obama, Fauci wrote down, Obama said that Donald Trump Jr. Is an effing moron. He used that word in fool. He apologized for using crude language, but then went on to say that Donald Trump was a hopeless idiot who was

[Joanna Coles]

a pathologic liar, hopeless idiot and pathological liar.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, there we go. That's what Barack Obama really says and thinks about Donald Trump. I suspect that most people, or I suspect the people who do not support Donald Trump, simply say, how refreshingly candid of Obama and also Obama, that he took the time for 25 minutes to phone Tony Fauci and express his support and offer him practical help and say he could, he would do what he could. The Fauci diaries were supposed to be an expose of how evil and star, you know, sort of star. Yes, I was trying to avoid using that word, Joanna, but yes, that is the words. Tony felt he'd been a monster. He'd been obsessed by power. You know, this critique was being. Is being thrown at him by. By the Republicans. And here we have a picture of a man who Barack Obama wanted to take 25 minutes to show support to. I don't think these diaries have backfired on Republicans, but they certainly will confirm in the minds of people who do not support Donald Trump that Obama has a lot of things to say that he should be probably be seeing on the campaign trail and maybe sitting like that.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. And actually, the diaries show that Tony Fauci himself is completely bemused by the fact that he's become a celebrity. So at the same time as he's saying, oh, goodness, went to an A list party, everybody was there, they all wanted selfies with me, he's saying, it's unnerving. I have some issues with Anthony Fauci, but not these issues. These issues, to me, seem like he was very human. He's writing down his real thoughts in a diary, which very clearly he never expected to be published. And the foolishness. And goodness knows we've all left things on work computers we shouldn't have done, but it's just a reminder. Well, actually, I'm sure. Well, I mean, just the texts and emails one sends under, you know, when you're trying to be funny and it's misread or you're trying to be quick.

[Michael Wolff]

Right. Who among us would want our texts and emails from six years ago at the height of. Of COVID when we were all terrified, being read out in an accusatory tone by sweaty and, you know, spitting senators raising money for their own funding?

[Joanna Coles]

Right. And clearly what you get is a view to Anthony Fauci's interior life as he's processing having to do press conferences with the president where the president is saying nonsensical things and his sudden fame. And if you think about how many actors and actresses deal with sudden fame, you know, they become drug addicts, they start taking alcohol, you know, they start drinking alcohol. Incredible. Celebrity is especially. Very quickly and especially for someone who's spent his life as a, you know, an unrecognized health bureaucrat. Getting that level of fame, I'm sure, is extremely unsettling. And he appeared to deal with it as well as he could.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. And I think anybody reading these would ask themselves the question of, if that was me, what would I have said and done? And, yeah, it was crazy. He had celebrities phoning him up. His phone number was widely available because he hadn't been famous.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Michael Wolff]

You know, what would you do and what would you write in your diary? There's a lesson here for everybody. Don't let your diary be made public. Unless you're Samuel Pepys or Tina Brown or Bridget Jones.

[Joanna Coles]

Bridget Jones or Adrian Mole. The Secret Diary of Adrian Mole, a classic British book.

[Michael Wolff]

Very, very, very.

[Joanna Coles]

A lot of people commented how much they love the diaries of Adrian Mole. And actually someone else wrote in yesterday, after I discussed some of this with Michael Wolfe, what about Diary of a Wimpy Kid? The best diary ever. Diary of a Wimpy Kid. I remember I couldn't wait for those books to come out. When my kids were young, I loved

[Michael Wolff]

Diary of a Nobody.

[Joanna Coles]

Diary of a Nobody. Yes. Diary of a Nobody.

[Michael Wolff]

And will we ever see the diaries of Donald J. Trump?

[Joanna Coles]

I don't think he keeps them.

[Michael Wolff]

Does he keeps them? No.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. Do we need them? Because he's just always.

[Michael Wolff]

I think we're going to say we've got it on Truth Social.

[Joanna Coles]

I think we know what's inside Donald Trump's head. And if you don't, then you should join me and Michael Wolff three times a week as we dive in there and we'll be back tomorrow.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, I cannot wait. As I've said, he is. He's the man with the torch, taking you around a tour of a very strange place.

[Joanna Coles]

We've been spelunking in Donald Trump's brain. Hughie, it's always good to speak to you. Referring people to the website to follow up on some of these stories.

[Michael Wolff]

Find us. DailyBeast.com, we are relentlessly reporting. Mitch McConnell, Max Miller, all those scandals, all those mysteries. We're also in substack.

[Joanna Coles]

No, we're on substack, which he writes every morning. And it's so good. It's my favourite thing to read. The one person we haven't talked about though, we've talked about her brother or as Donald Trump refers to him, that person is Darlene Graham.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. This has been, it's been quite a week for Darlene Graham. She's two days of the week have been understandably funeral ceremonies for the brother who adopted her and helped to bring her up when their parents died when she was just 13. You know, clearly somebody she was incredibly close to. But of course she is running for the full six year term for the Senate seat which she inherited from her brother. And actually that's kind of gone off the rails this week.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, and she's another person that like Anthony Fauci, suddenly been thrust into the spotlight later in life. She's, I think 60, not used to it, I thought she appeared to carry herself off very, you know, very elegantly at what must have been an extremely difficult situation for her. But the assumption that she should just get his Senate seat is clearly being challenged by the people of South Carolina.

[Michael Wolff]

Challenged big time. Nominations have now, I believe closed for this seat. And it had seemed she had the endorsement of Donald Trump. All is well. It's a coronation. It's not a coronation. She has eight Republican opponents. She was going to have, so she was going to have 11, but the Republican Party disqualified three of them. So that got it down to a field of nine. There has been vestigial polling and it looks like she's ahead of the field, but only because of so many of them. And she's on, I think it was 12 or 13%. Now this is really messy. Among those who are running, Mark Sanford, the former governor and the former member of Congress, better known perhaps for his Appalachian travels, the Love Gov.

[Joanna Coles]

But he was a popular governor when he was there.

[Michael Wolff]

He was we have also former mayor of Myrtle beach who has run both the House and the Senate. So he's got experience in what to do in the campaign trail. A serving congressmen, in fact two serving congressmen, I should say Russell Fry and Ralph Norman, an entrepreneur. We interestingly have a businessman called Mark lynch, he's from Greenville. He actually finished second to Lindsey Graham in the Republican primary and it was, it was much closer than they had. You know, Lindsey Graham was surprised to get a primary opponent at all and he actually ran up some votes. And we, we have another Duke Buckner who ran against Jim Clyburn. So there's a lot of people in this field, almost all of them have a war. A lot more experience campaigning than Darlene does. She has put out her first campaign video to. To try to convince people that she has died in the wool maga. And she says that she is, as she puts it, pro life because there's been this problem for her that she donated twice to a state senator who filibustered a draconian abortion ban.

[Joanna Coles]

So she is reported first in the

[Michael Wolff]

newsletter, first revealed on the Daily Beast

[Joanna Coles]

newsletter, which comes out on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. And if you want to know what's going on in dc, the Swamp newsletter is the best way to find out.

[Michael Wolff]

So that's the drama for Darlene. I think we might be talking about this in even more depth next week

[Joanna Coles]

because can we watch her campaign video?

[Michael Wolff]

We can.

[Joanna Coles]

I'm honored to serve South Carolina and grateful for President Trump's endorsement, and I'll

[Michael Wolff]

work hard every day to earn it. I'm a conservative Republican and I believe this. Every life is precious. Men don't belong in women's sports and only American citizens should vote in our elections.

[Vivek Ranadive]

I'm Darlene Graham.

[Joanna Coles]

I approve this message and I'm ready to serve. So she's going for the full trifecta there. Basically, his Save America bill. The only American citizen should vote, which they do anyway. So what's the weird. So weird that he's chosen that as a thing that men don't belong in women's sports. There really aren't very many men in women's sports. Again, one of those issues that very effectively has been used as a wedge issue when it's actually not really an issue.

[Michael Wolff]

Tiny, tiny numbers.

[Joanna Coles]

And abortion, where we know she actually gave money. In fact, her sole campaign contributions were to lessen the impact of an abortion man.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. And I think the thing is that she knows that these opponents, these other eight Republicans, have pretty good goods on her here, that she's never really been seen or heard from in public.

[Joanna Coles]

She didn't vote, I think, in the last primary.

[Michael Wolff]

There are questions about her voting record and there is this donation to a cause which is antithe to the MAGA base. So my prediction for this, Joanna is going to run off. That's messy. It's a lot of money, and maybe she'll win, we obviously don't know. But we are going to see a lot of soap opera down in South Carolina in the next few weeks and Democrats are going to the popcorn out.

[Joanna Coles]

Also, there may be revisionism around Lindsey Graham to do with the videos that we've seen coming out of a documentary that he. He was making with a British documentarian Alex Holder, where he is sort of laughing and gleeful when the bombing in Iran starts, which is, you know, coincidental. Good luck for the documentarian that the war happens to begin while he's covering the senator. And he goes, ooh, Donald Trump is a wonderful wartime president. You know, he and Bibi Netanyahu are like Churchill and Roosevelt, but Roosevelt being Trump and Bibi Netanyahu being Churchill. And it's hard to think of a less apt comparison. And particularly now a war that was supposed to last four or five weeks, which now is in its sixth month. This looks terrible for the revisionist history of Lindsey Graham, who, of course, this week, because it was his funeral, was lauded by Donald Trump, that person, even though he couldn't remember who he was. And Sean Hannity, who used it as an opportunity to suck up to the present.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, he described heaven as being like Mar a Lago, but bigger.

[Joanna Coles]

Bigger than Mar a Lago. A bigger Mar a Lago, but yeah.

[Michael Wolff]

So you're right. Any revisionism about Lindsey Graham, those are the issues that this war is incredibly unpopular with Republicans and Israel has become a divisive issue among Republicans. So both of those things, that's really not what Darlene Graham wants to get caught on. And you can see from this video, she's saying nothing about the war. She's saying nothing about foreign policy.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, she's saying that she's going to focus on domestic policy, isn't she? But also I'm sure that she perhaps thought, as I think Caroline Kennedy thought at one point when someone put her up as a possible Senate candidate for New York. Oh, this is going to be easy. I'm going to walk this. And it turns out that actually people don't want dynastic politics. You know, people didn't want Hillary Clinton, the first woman president, to have been married to a former president. And people are clearly not feeling comfortable at the idea of Darlene Graham simply just sauntering into her brother's seat with the president's endorsement, as if this is all hunky dory. There are other people out there who are hungry to get in and fight for South Carolinians.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, it's going to be fascinating race. Obviously, we're going to be covering it on thedailybeast.com we will. I imagine we'll be talking about it here next week.

[Joanna Coles]

It's a beautiful state, South Carolina. I have spent a lot of time there. At one point, I used to spend a lot of time in Charleston. And it's just a beautiful, beautiful State,

[Michael Wolff]

you may be more qualified to run than Darlene.

[Joanna Coles]

I don't think I am more qualified to run than Darlene, but.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, there's eight people here who think they are.

[Joanna Coles]

Yes, that's very true. They don't need me in that race. There may be other races, Hughie, but.

[Michael Wolff]

Oh, you hit that here first. If you need Joanna to run and your race, get in touch.

[Joanna Coles]

I'm joking. I'm joking. Hugh. It's always fun. It's always fun to see you. People have gotten, they've acclimatized to your accent, I think it's fair to say. You didn't have to say once this podcast, I'm Scottish. People have figured it out.

[Michael Wolff]

Just if you have any doubts, I am Scottish and I'll be back next week and I'll still be Scottish.

[Joanna Coles]

We hope to be back next week. God willing, we'll be back next week and by then we'll have the results of the Michigan Democratic.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, we will. Big, big race. Exciting. And we'll have more primaries.

[Joanna Coles]

A lot of money flowing into it. A lot of money flowing into it.

[Michael Wolff]

It's been a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Joanna,

[Joanna Coles]

many of you last week said how much you enjoyed the conversation with the former CEO of Twitter and the tech investor Dick Costello and his point or question. Really that does AI lead to the end of thinking? Well today I'm excited to share with you now the conversation I had with Vivek Ranadive. He's the co owner and the chairman of the Sacramento Kings and It's for our America 250 series which we've produced in partnership with PMI US, the US businesses of Philip Morris International as part of a year long initiative to celebrate and accelerate American innovation and reinvention. We're looking ahead to the next 250 years of America reacting directly to your comments. So Vivek and I had a fascinating discussion about the future of sports and technology and we threw in some Lunar economics. Yes, that's right, Lunar economics. So let's dive right in. Vivek, Runner Diva, it's so nice to see you. Now you are a hugely successful technologist. You created, you founded the company Tibco, you own the Sacramento Kings, you invest in other sports teams and I know you've had a summer of sport. Every time I try and talk to you, you're at some tournament or other. What are you most excited about? As you look over the next few years in terms of sports and technology, what do you think is going to change?

[Vivek Ranadive]

Joanna, we're entering what I call the emotion economy. There was a French sociologist who talked about the collective effervescence of bringing people together. As we enter this age of AI, we get more and more disconnected, ironically. And so sports is what brings people together, and it's where people go to celebrate. When I built my arena, I said it was the 21st century cathedral, it was the town square. And so I'm super excited about what sports means to the world. And we just finished the World cup and the whole world came together for that, and it was spectacular success. So I really see the arena, sports stadiums as kind of the 21st century cathedral or the communal fireplace. And technology plays a huge role in that. So when I started investing in sports teams, the old saying was that the way to have a small fortune is to start with a large fortune and buy a sport.

[Joanna Coles]

Right?

[Vivek Ranadive]

Actually not been the case. It's, you know, these values have grown 10, 20, 30x since I got involved. But technology, for me has always been a key factor because when I look at a team, I don't think of it as just a sports team. I think of it as a social network. And if I can use technology to capture, expand, engage that network, then the value is far greater than just as a sports team. And so that's exactly what I've done. I incubated a company called Lava, and we, even though as a team we've had our struggles on the court, we're number one in per caps, as in our fans are spending more money than New York or la. We're number one in engagement. We're one of the top concert venues in the world. Our arena is always ranked number one. So technology really plays a big role, but not just in the business, but also on the sports side as well. Every front Office now has PhD, computer scientists, AI experts. Every arena, every practice facility has cameras that are picking up data at just astronomical rates. And so teams are looking at many, many gigabytes of data. And then you can use that to decide what combinations of players, where to shoot from, where to defend from. So that's happening. But then with technology, you can also shrink the world. And so I was the first sports team to experiment with augmented and virtual reality using glasses. And so you've sat with me courtside at a king's game, and I want the boy in Bombay to have the same experience that you and I have sitting courtside. And now that's possible with these glasses. So it shrinks the world. And of course, it also impacts the actual refereeing of the Game as well. I know you're a tennis fan. I've been with you to the US Open. Now we don't have lines people anymore. And I was just at Wimbledon. They don't have lines people there. I was at the French Open a few weeks before that. Now, on clay, it's harder to make Hawkeye work, so they actually do look at where the ball bounces with eyes over there because it leaves a mark. But in the future, you're going to see innovation on that part of the game as well. So it's really about how do we make the fan experience even better, how do we give them choice in how they want to consume the game and then how do we keep ensuring that we improve the integrity of the game? And at the end of the day, it shrinks the world. It makes us one, and it brings the whole community together. And that's what technology does.

[Joanna Coles]

I love the idea of the emotion economy. It's such a great way of thinking about it. And of course, the World cup felt like it brought. Well, it certainly brought 48 countries together to celebrate their teams. What do you think about. And I know you and I have discussed this sort of technology as it impacts the human body, because as you say, you've got cameras tracking every single player as they rehearse. But do you think that there will be new supplements or powders or peptides or whatever? The kind of cool thing of the moment is to actually give the human body a boost?

[Vivek Ranadive]

Well, absolutely. I think Health 3.0 is really about not just your lifespan, your health span, longevity, living well and really being able to do all those things you love to do into your late years. And in some ways you see this in every field, that there's a few people that are elites. And I remember when the Internet came about, I said that everybody will have access to all the information in the world soon that only the elites had back then. And in fact, my technology was used to create Yahoo. Finance so that every person got stock information. So, yeah, it's true that right now elite athletes have access to. They have personalized chefs and we measure everything. And so they are peak performers. But it's going to get democratized. And so the kinds of tools, whether it's it's a watch or it's a ring or it's a phone, everyone is going to have access to that level of personalized care so that you can not only live a longer life, but a better life, a healthier life. And look, we just all watched the World cup and Messi is almost 40 years old and still playing at the highest levels of the game. Everyone's wondering where LeBron James is going to go, and he's like, over 40. I was again at the French Open. I was at Wimbledon. You know, my good friend Djokovic, he's 39, and he's still competing at the very highest levels of the game. So we're seeing that people are extending their lifespan, their health span, and this is going to get democratized and be available to everyone.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, so that feels like it's a good thing.

[Vivek Ranadive]

Absolutely. I think it trickles down to all of humanity.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, so that's positive. That's a positive. We're all going to have a healthier lifespan. So one thing we've talked about is also, and I'm very curious to get your perspective on this, and we had some questions for you about this. It's about the lunar economy and about data centers in space. How can you even put a data center in space? Is the technology there? Is this a real thing? And yet I know there are lots of investments around this technology. Can you just talk us through what you're seeing and what you're excited about in terms of the lunar economy?

[Vivek Ranadive]

Yeah. So we've gone from CPUs to GPUs, and now we have these large language models, and they basically look at the entire tub of data, all the data on the Internet, and they use matrix multiplication probabilities to be able to predict the next word. Now, the problem is it requires a massive data center with massive amounts of energy, and that also puts out heat as you need to cool it. So everybody is getting addicted to these LLC LLMs and everything that you can do with them. But we just don't have enough data centers to meet the demand. And the first problem with data centers is the old NIMBY problem. Not in my backyard. So nobody wants it to be done. They want it, but they don't want it next to their home. And then there's the problem of space, because they do require space. There's a problem of energy because they consume a lot of energy, and then that in turn puts out heat. And so there's the problem of cooling. So space offers a solution to all of that. Space is not.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, Vivek, before we get into space, why can't we just put these data centers outside of towns or in sort of areas where there isn't a big population base and where they may create some jobs? And, I mean, you fly across America and you look down and you just See all this vacant space? Why is it not possible to just put data centers there? Do they have to be near centers of population?

[Vivek Ranadive]

No, they don't have to be. But the NIMBY problem exists even in those areas. In fact, one of the companies I invested in uses AI to tell you what every city council in the country is doing and thinking. They video every meeting, every interaction, and it's really hard to get the necessary permits to put these data centers up. And more and more people are discovering that, and there's kind of a backlash against them right now. So you have that problem. Space is a problem. So if you put it in space, there's space that's not a problem. Energy is not as much of a problem because you have the sun's energy, so they can be solar powered, and then cooling is less of a problem because in space you can radiate the heat out. And so the major problems we face are solved in space. Now, it does create other problems because radiation impacts the lifespan of the chips of the GPUs. So now people are inventing new materials to block that radiation. So there's just more innovation coming. And really, this is real. I'm investing in companies that are doing this, and they already have these things up in space with GPUs in them. And in a sense, a satellite is like a data center. It has chips, it has networking, it exchanges information with the ground. And so it's not as crazy as it sounds. And so this is happening, it's happening soon, and we're going to all be using it.

[Joanna Coles]

And this is going to sound a very naive question, but if we put data centers up in space, are other countries able to take them out? I mean, how do we claim, what bit of space is ours to put a data center in?

[Vivek Ranadive]

Yeah, so anytime you do something, there's opportunities and there's threats, and, you know, you have to find ways to address that. And so we're investing a lot in the renaissance, the American renaissance. And so the latest thing is you can fight wars with drones, and so there's drones, but then you need systems to orchestrate those drones, and then you need systems to fight against those drones. So it creates a whole economy of its own. And so we're going to need these data centers to be secure. We're also going to need them to communicate. Anytime you do something new, there's opportunities and there's also new challenges. Just like I said, we're going to have to figure out how to deal with radiation. And so all of this is being licensed right now. And so Elon Musk, I think, has a license for a thousand of these data centers. One of the companies I invested in has a license for 90,000 of them. So there is some method to the madness. But it does create new challenges, for sure, but it also creates new economies. And so you got to secure them, you got to make sure they can talk to each other, just as I said, with drones. And so anytime you do something new, then it creates a whole new set of challenges, but opportunities as well.

[Joanna Coles]

So, Vivek, there's so much panic about AI and AI Dumas and, you know, from everything from data centers to AI itself taking people's jobs. We've seen this over history, the Industrial Revolution. We've seen enormous changes. People talk about AI being exponentially flow faster. How do we find the plus side of AI? How do we find the advantages?

[Vivek Ranadive]

Yeah, for sure. When you go from one era to the next, as we went from the agricultural to the industrial, 93% of the jobs from the agricultural era were lost. We don't work on farms anymore. And as we go from the industrial to the AI era, there will be massive disruption, no doubt, but it also will create massive opportunities and it'll create massive goodness for the planet. So we're talking about eliminating diseases, we're talking about creating new kinds of materials. We're talking about an incredible education for every person on the planet. We're talking about getting rid of jobs that humans shouldn't do in the first place. I coined the term physical AI that other people use that term now, but it's really robots, and it's AI in the physical world. So those robots are going to need to be serviced, and they're going to need to be harnessed, and there's a lot of work to be done. So there's a huge amount of work to be done. We're just going to be more productive with what we're doing today. And there will be a period of disruption. But those who can adapt to the new world the fastest will be the greatest beneficiaries. And you had asked me earlier about the moon, and that represents a whole new set of opportunities. The planet is 4 billion years old. The universe is 14 billion years old. And for most of that 4 billion years, we were a species that lived in the water. Then we lived on land. And then modern humans came about 100,000 years ago. And now we're going to go from sea to land to interplanetary, and the moon is going to play a huge part in that. Because it turns out that the hard part about going into space is actually the first few miles, it's just getting out of Earth's orbit because that's where all the energy gets sucked up. So if we can use the Moon as kind of a base camp, then we can use that to go to other places.

[Joanna Coles]

Vivek, I wanted to ask you a question from a listener and a viewer. Will there be better AI prediction of injuries so that players don't have to, A, get injured and B, then sit on the sidelines waiting to recuperate?

[Vivek Ranadive]

Yeah. So, Jonah, it turns out that the most powerful person in a sports team is not the owner, not the gm, not the coach. Coach. Every team will tell you that the most powerful person is the trainer, because the trainer decides how many minutes each player should play. Because we already have data that tells us everything about that person, and it tells us all the injuries that they could be prone to. And then the AI tells you how many minutes they should play before they are vulnerable to that kind of injury. So we're already doing that. Every sports team is already doing that. And it's very frustrating for the coach and the GM and even for the owner, because we're like, wait, you know, why is this guy only playing 18 minutes? You know? Well, the trainer said it's 18 minutes.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, I didn't know that. I've often wondered, why are they taking him off? Why are they taking him off? Or her off, I should say. But you've explained it for me. You talked about the glasses being available to give a kid in Bombay the same courtside experience that you have as the owner of a team. What else will technology be able to do to enable the fan base to have more connection with the team?

[Vivek Ranadive]

Yeah. So the video gaming industry has done a really good job of engaging people. And so in our main sports, like basketball, we have a lot to learn from them. And so they make it a lot more interactive. So using technology, every fan will have the experience like they're sitting on the court, but they'll also be able to look at the game from any angle. They'll be able to interact. You know, in the future, perhaps they'll be able to pick up signals. If the players are allowed to wear watches and things that tell you what their heart rate is. And so they can really feel like they're part of the game. And they'll even be able to insert themselves onto the court and see what's going on. So their level of interaction, their presence, their virtual presence, their ability to Consume the game in the manner they want to consume it, in the seat they want to consume it, or the angle they want to look at it and then also to be able to interact with other like minded people. So we're just going to see a level of interaction, customization and consumption that is unparalleled.

[Joanna Coles]

So Vivek, you arrived in America age 16 to go to MIT from India. Are you sometimes, do you sometimes pinch yourself at the, at the very different world that you are in now than when you first arrived? Just the speed and the scale of the changes that have taken place. Could you have imagined how fast things would change?

[Vivek Ranadive]

Yeah. So Joanna, I am obviously very, very grateful for what this country has done for me and where I find myself in life. And yes, there's many things, just things like autonomous cars I could never have imagined, even as a computer science, electrical engineering type of guy, that that was even possible. I remember when Sergey first gave me a tour of the Waymo facility many years ago and I was blown away by what they were doing then. Now the good news is that the next 10 years are going to be even more so. We've reached the point of exponential evolution and a cross disciplinary world where you're going to connect dots across different disciplines. And what America has given all of us is this is the place that you can dream big. This is the place where you can be outrageous. And as long as you're willing to be ferocious in the pursuit of outrageous, anything is possible.

[Joanna Coles]

Ferocious in the pursuit of the outrageous. I love it. Vivek Rana Divay, thank you so much for joining us.

[Vivek Ranadive]

Thank you Johanna.

[Joanna Coles]

Thank you again to Vivek for joining me. And next week, next Friday we'll be concluding this special series of talking heads about the future of education with Geoffrey Sonnenfeld. He's the Senior Associate Dean for Leadership Studies at Yale University. So if you want to have the chance to your prediction, read and responded to live on air. Leave us a comment with the hashtag America250 on this YouTube video or head to beast.com reminder that by posting with America250 you agree that the Daily Beast can include your comment in PMI US sponsored segments on the Daily Beast podcast and to other potential PMI US uses if you have been. Thank you for joining us and a big thank you to our production team, Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many Beast Tier members now there are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.