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- [00:00]
Ryan Reynolds
Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. You know one of the perks about having four kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to the big man up north. And this year he wants you to know the best gift that you can give someone is the gift of Mint Mobile's unlimited wireless for $15 a month. Now you don't even need to wrap it. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment.
- [00:21]
Mint Mobile Advertiser
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- [00:29]
Joe from Vanta
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- [01:00]
Better Wild Advertiser
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- [02:00]
Hannah Berner
Cozy Tommy John pajamas you're buying?
- [02:03]
Paige DeSorbo
Paige de Sorbo they are Tommy John and yes, I'm stocking up because they make the best holiday gifts.
- [02:10]
Hannah Berner
So generous.
- [02:11]
Paige DeSorbo
Well, I'm a generous girly, especially when it comes to me. So I'm grabbing the softest sleepwear, comfiest underwear and best fitting loungewear.
- [02:19]
Hannah Berner
So nothing for your bestie?
- [02:21]
Paige DeSorbo
Of course. I'm getting my dad, Tommy John. Oh, and you, of course.
- [02:25]
Hannah Berner
It's giving. Holiday gifting made. Easy.
- [02:27]
Paige DeSorbo
Exactly. Cozy, comfy, everyone's happy. Gift everyone on your list, including yourself with Tommy John and get 25% off your first order right now at TommyJohn.Comfort.
- [02:42]
Michael Wolff
The Epstein file turns out to be a funnel of everything undifferentiated. So the file is essentially a garbage can of everything mentioning Jeffrey Epstein. How do we obscure what we don't want to see? Well, then we give you too much. So rather than solve the mystery, it increases the mystery.
- [03:10]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Michael Wolf.
- [03:13]
Michael Wolff
Joanna Coles. Two days before Christmas.
- [03:16]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Two days before Christmas. Have you got all your shopping done.
- [03:21]
Michael Wolff
That you can always do more?
- [03:23]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Oh, it's a good American attitude towards shopping. I have done almost none. I went. I'm only buying a very few gifts this year, and I went to one store and I bought them all there. I suddenly thought, why not? So, Gigi Hadid, if you're listening, I bought everything from guest in residence this year. Everybody's getting cashmere. Done.
- [03:42]
Michael Wolff
Is that. Is that her store?
- [03:44]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
It's her store.
- [03:45]
Michael Wolff
I like that store, too. That's.
- [03:46]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Oh, you do? Yeah, it's good.
- [03:47]
Babbel Advertiser
Yeah.
- [03:47]
Michael Wolff
Cardigan store.
- [03:49]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Cardigan store. It's right around the corner from me. So I. I strolled out on Saturday and I ended up buying everything there. And also they come in very nice yellow boxes, which is cheerful for this time of year.
- [04:01]
Michael Wolff
So all your boys are getting cardigans?
- [04:04]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well, they do sweaters, too. Actually, the youngest son is not getting cashmere. He is getting. He's getting an enormous pot because he. He likes to cook. And if he doesn't want it, I've told him I take it back from him. But it's a very nice. I know he doesn't listen to the podcast, so I can say he's getting a very nice Le Creuse pot.
- [04:26]
Michael Wolff
Very nice.
- [04:26]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Because he collects.
- [04:27]
Michael Wolff
So you did go to another store?
- [04:29]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
I did it online. I did it online. I went to Uncle Jeff, actually. Uncle Jeff, who started wearing cowboy hats. I saw there was a very strange picture.
- [04:39]
Michael Wolff
Who is Uncle Jeff?
- [04:40]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Uncle Jeff Bezos. Amazon. I went to Amazon. Went to Amazon. And there's a very strange photo of.
- [04:47]
Michael Wolff
I thought for a moment you were. It was Uncle Jeff Epstein. I was.
- [04:51]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Oh, no, that's great.
- [04:53]
Michael Wolff
We've crossed the line.
- [04:55]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Although Epstein. Epstein is in the air at the moment. And we'll come on to Epstein. We'll also come on to the Trump Battleships. I think we should talk about the ICE videos and the memes they're putting out there. We've got a lot to talk about.
- [05:07]
Michael Wolff
Today, but I want, don't forget Steve Witkoff, the dumbest man in America now loosed upon the world.
- [05:14]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Steve Witkoff, who was personally selected to solve the crisis between or the war between Ukraine and Russia. By who? Who was he personally chosen by?
- [05:27]
Michael Wolff
Vladimir Putin.
- [05:29]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
By Vladimir Putin. Who was the former head of which organization?
- [05:34]
Michael Wolff
The kgb. You don't have to turn people anymore. I mean, it used to be, remember in the Cold Cold War, you had to turn your. Now you just get an American dummy who will do your bidding.
- [05:49]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well, now they can just hand pick them. So I think he's going like, no, no, no, Steve Witkoff. I like Witzkoff. Anyway, we'll be coming on to that very good story in the Wall Street Journal. But before we did that, I wanted to tackle some comments that we got because we got a lot of comments about two specific things. One is the amount of money that congresspeople get paid. We were discussing the role of congressmen and women and in particular in the context of Marjorie Taylor Greene leaving. And you had said somewhat flippantly, I think, look, they don't earn very much. She can go off and earn more money.
- [06:26]
Michael Wolff
Not too flippantly. I mean, I mean this, I mean, I think that this is from, you know, people with, with law degrees who advanced in their profession, you know, not a large amount of money. I mean, and, and you could, in so many other walks of life, you, the person who is in Congress, make more money. That's a, that's a rate limiting factor in, in getting high caliber people to go to run for Congress.
- [06:58]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well, it used to be that people would make their money and then go into government.
- [07:03]
Michael Wolff
You know, I'm not, I'm not really sure that that's true. Congress people have been, historically, you know, people from the, from the community. They're, you know, sometimes they're, they're rich, but sometimes they're, they're everyday folk. That's the point about Congress, the everyday folk chamber.
- [07:25]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
So are you in favor of paying them much more? I mean, there are a lot of people out there saying we should pay them a minimum of a million dollars, attract the best possible talent.
- [07:37]
Michael Wolff
You know, I think that the, I think that this is, this is symptomatic from just a greater problem in the country, which is the discrepancy between people's incomes between, you know, potential trillionaires and others. I think it's all out of whack. I mean, congresspeople make $174,000 a year, which should be a perfectly respectable sum of money to make. I just saw a study recently, seemed to be a reputable study that said, you know, basically, basically, you can't. That the line. I'm trying to think how the line was defined. I mean, I think it was basically. Basically you couldn't get into the middle class. This is just the middle class line was at $140,000 a year. So we're, we're in a. I mean, this is a central issue. I mean, this goes to the functional, the affordability issue, the biggest issue of, of our time. And I mean, I'm perfectly sympathetic to the fact that $174,000 seems to many, many people like a. Like a, you know, a reasonable sum of money to make. And it should be a reasonable sum of money. But. But then that gets compared to peers who are making, you know, I mean, we don't. Millions beyond. Beyond millions. And so, you know, I think that a great many people in Congress feel that they can't stay in Congress, actually.
- [09:34]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well, there's a record number of people leaving Congress. I think it's 54. They're saying it's the highest, the highest number of people leaving Congress this time round. There was a lot, a lot of people left, I want to say, in 2008. And clearly it's becoming so contentious for a lot of people that they don't want to stay and people are getting doxed and their addresses are out there and people are feeling nervous for their families. So clearly.
- [10:03]
Michael Wolff
And then there's another aspect of this, which if, if you have been in Congress. Well, that credential, then if you just leave Congress allows you to make. To take a quantum leap forward in. Up in personal income and net worth.
- [10:21]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Yeah. And I think the other thing that makes it more complicated, and you're right to talk about the sort of enormous inequality is just the visibility of people showing off on social media platforms. And I referenced Jeff Bezos earlier, but the pictures of him and Lauren Sanchez going to Aspen today, they're going to a special shop that apparently they go to. They're both wearing gray cowboy hats. Let's just linger on that for a second. And their sort of flamboyant lifestyle, I think must be very irritating to a lot of people that work at Amazon and the drivers who have to pee in bottles and the people who are, you know, segwaying all over those enormous Amazon warehouses.
- [11:05]
Michael Wolff
No, I mean, this is the central issue. This is the issue that, that, that defeated Joe Biden. It may well defeat Donald Trump or Donald Trump's party in 2026. But there is, I mean, there's this other thing too, which is, you know, that Congress should be the every guy place. But you know, if you then start to parse this, remember, if you go to Congress, you have to have, you have to basically maintain two residences. You're from somewhere else, then you have to live in Washington too. And then you have families, you have travelers. I mean, this is, this is just another aspect of the system that is broken.
- [11:52]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Right? And then the other comment that people had for us was somehow equating Joe Biden's decline with Donald Trump's decline. And people felt that, that we were unfair, that we were both sidesing it, when in fact Joe Biden wasn't a psychopath, which is what a lot of our viewers believe Donald Trump is.
- [12:17]
Michael Wolff
I'm going to push back on that. You know, I mean, listen, I think, I mean, I think the country would be better off if Joe Biden were, was better off when Joe Biden was president. Would probably, would certainly be better off if he were still president. But this is, this is, we're comparing the wrong things. I mean, it, it is if, if there's a health concern with the President of the United States, whether he's, whether he's a functional good guy or a functional asshole doesn't make any difference. It's a health concern. I mean, we have the right, American citizens have the, have the right to believe that they have a president who is fully compos mentis. And, and Joe Biden obviously had, had a whole set of handicaps in this regard, and Donald Trump probably does, too. And the issue really is not politics. The issue is age.
- [13:24]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Yep, agree. And we had, Dr. John Gartner, the clinical psychologist, was on the podcast on Sunday and he was saying that the idea that Donald Trump is taking all these mocha tests repeatedly is very much a sign that doctors are monitoring his dementia. That that's what he.
- [13:44]
Michael Wolff
Well, it may or may not be a sign. I mean, you know, this guy and I always take somewhat exception to doctors who are diagnosing without ever having met the patient in question.
- [13:57]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
So, well, his head and his counterattack to that would be that actually with Donald Trump, you can do that because you have 40 years of a baseline against which to.
- [14:07]
Michael Wolff
Well, yeah, well, I know what he's going to say. He's not going to say, yeah, why am I doing this? That's that's, that's clearly what. And, and I have also said, I mean, I think voters in, in a world in which we don't get this information and we're not going to get this information, but not least of all because this information would be pretty devastating to a presidency. We all have to become our own, we have to make our own diagnosis. This is part of now, this is part of the democratic process. How do you evaluate a candidate? Well, you have to have a diagnosis. You have to make your own diagnosis because you're never going to get an accurate one. So in that regard, I guess it's good to have doctors who are willing.
- [14:58]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
To say, well, who are willing to.
- [14:59]
Michael Wolff
Say what they say, having met the patient, although it seems a little ethically challenged. But anyway.
- [15:10]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
I think that's a reasonable argument that because you've heard someone speaking and you can track his speech patterns over a long period of time, you can see speech patterns in decline and that's what he's seeing anyway. We don't have to relitigate it here. If people want to watch it, they can watch it on the Daily Beast podcast. But we do have to get into the release of the Epstein files. The sort of stop start release of it.
- [15:37]
Michael Wolff
Let's. It's sort of the rolling release.
- [15:41]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
The rolling release. And then there's a bit of a snatchback too. Yesterday there was a release and then there was some sudden redactions, then there was a pulling back, then there was a re release. It's a very judgary train right now.
- [15:55]
Ryan Reynolds
Yeah.
- [15:55]
Michael Wolff
You know, and I think it goes to, you know, probably the fallacy of this. You know, we're in this moment when release, it's like that's the thing that's going to answer all questions. Release. I mean just saying the word seems to say, okay, that'll solve the problem. Release it right. When no one knows what it is. And even release, what does release means? So you, you, you put up a lot of information on, on a website without context, without barely any catalog of what the information.
- [16:39]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
There's no guide, there's no index. It's a. Impossible to search. You don't know what you're looking for.
- [16:44]
Michael Wolff
So rather than solve the mystery, it increases the mystery. And you know, I kind of wonder who to blame this on. I mean, partly it's, partly it's the Democrats. And I suppose in another world, if the Democrats had been in control of either house of Congress, they would have, they would have, they would have run a, a more, more formal and considered investigation.
- [17:20]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
But why is it, why is it the Democrats fault?
- [17:24]
Michael Wolff
Well, obviously the Republicans don't want to consider this issue at all. A few Republicans do, but the larger Republican Party clearly does not. And clearly the White House doesn't, doesn't want to. And I mean, I'm just thinking that how this, how this came, this idea of the release, release the files as though that would solve the problem, as though that would answer all questions. And in all in the other, I mean, Congress has usual, usually, I mean, I actually don't ever remember this being, being in that there was a, that this was the consensus solution. Release everything in, in the past it has been, you run an investigation. Let's find out what happens here instead of this idea of releasing the files. And I think this has to do with this whole idea of transparency. We need complete transparency. But as we're seeing, the problem with transparency is that you don't, you see by seeing everything or what is theoretically everything, you see, you don't know what you're looking at.
- [18:41]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well. And inevitably there's now all sorts of fakes which are confusing people. I mean, let's discuss the completely implausible fake which seemed to have fooled a lot of people, which is a video of Jeffrey Epstein supposedly trying to hang himself in his jail cell as if taken from a camera in his jail cell, which of course was never there.
- [19:09]
Michael Wolff
So what you, what you, I mean, what you, I mean, I can't even imagine how this, how that piece of information got into this information.
- [19:19]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Right.
- [19:20]
Michael Wolff
Except that this information, the Epstein file, turns out to be a funnel of everything undifferentiated. Somebody said something related in some way, but without any, any, without any particular point, purpose or, or.
- [19:43]
Paige DeSorbo
Or.
- [19:45]
Michael Wolff
Or acknowledgement that it, that, that it is true that just went into the file. So the file is essentially a garbage can of everything mentioning Jeffrey Epstein.
- [20:00]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
But there are also a lot of interesting things in there, like the fact that Donald Trump was on the Epstein plane far more than had been expected. And as you've always said, there is nothing like the bait of a private plane to get people to come to you.
- [20:15]
Michael Wolff
No. And Epstein always used to say that Trump, that Trump wanted to be on his plane because, because he didn't want to spend the money on the gas.
- [20:23]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
On his plane, of course, and the pilots and everything that it takes. There's also a fake letter, supposedly, although.
- [20:33]
Michael Wolff
We don't know that it's fake. I mean, everybody, I mean, we're now, we're now, we've now qualified this letter, but We. On. On no basis at all, although it would seem to me that it's fake.
- [20:47]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
This is the letter we're talking about from Larry Nasser, the fourth former American Olympic gymnastics coach who in jail for.
- [20:57]
Michael Wolff
His own sexual abuse scandal.
- [21:01]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Yeah, terrible sexual abuse, consistent over years. The doctor treating the Olympic team and abusing them in front of their parents as their parents sat in the room sometimes. I mean, really peculiar. And a very sort of strange letter that you immediately detected was fake, or at least very unlikely.
- [21:23]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, I don't, I mean, as. I mean, from what I know, when Epstein was communicating with people outside of the, Outside of jail, those communications passed through his lawyers. I mean, when you communicate with someone, you write a letter from jail, that's actually, you know, there's, you have no guarantee of, of privacy there. And I think in Jeffrey Epstein's case, everything would have been scrutinized. So therefore, you're in jail on charges involving, well, trafficking, sexual abuse, and then you're going to write, effectively, a confession to another sexual abuser. That seems implausible. And it also seems like it is designed to implicate Trump. I'm confused by the whole thing, actually.
- [22:20]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well, and also it says, as you will know by now, I have taken the short route. That is the implication.
- [22:26]
Michael Wolff
Oh, yes, it's suicide. It writes a suicide letter to someone. Yeah, to someone, but it is in there. And apparently it. We don't know where this comes from. Apparently it comes from the prison system. It was, There was a letter that. It was marked. This is returned to sender. I don't know. Again, what does this, what does this mean? Does it mean anything? Or, or the fact that it is a fake, what does that mean?
- [23:02]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Right. And, you know, presumably you would have thought that the DOJ would have a separate file for things that seemed very clearly fakes.
- [23:15]
Michael Wolff
Well, you, you would, but you don't know what they, what they have. I mean, this is not, you know, the. Well, we don't. We don't know. We don't know. And, and, and Congress did not ask for this material to be categorized in any specific way. So if you had an investigation, a formal investigation, then you would have. This is what people do. It's really an issue of qualifying information. Now, theoretically, Congress could now qualify this information, except that everybody has seen it. So the waters have already been, to say the least, muddied.
- [24:01]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
But I don't think we have seen it. I mean, they're releasing thousands of documents. It's impossible to read through them all.
- [24:09]
Michael Wolff
No, it's impossible to Keep up with this. And is that the point? I mean, that may well be the point on the part of the Justice Department in the White House. How do we obscure what we don't want to see? Well, then we give you too much. I mean, it's actually an old flood the zone. Right, Old trick.
- [24:33]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Yeah, you flood the zone. And there were certainly reports that there were over that when Cash Patel and Dan Bongino came in to run the FBI, they had more than 1,000 agents working on the Epstein case, which is also an extraordinary use of the. The FBI.
- [24:53]
Michael Wolff
No. So, so again, we are at this. Release the files. Release the files. As though this was going to clear up everything.
- [25:02]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
All right.
- [25:03]
Michael Wolff
And now it has the, the, the, the opposite effect.
- [25:08]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Right. So what should we be looking for in these files?
- [25:13]
Michael Wolff
You know, I know, I know from my, my own personal window into this. And let's clarify the question, especially when it comes to Donald Trump. What did he know? When did he know it? Did he participate in it? And you know, one of the things Epstein always said and outlined with great specificity to me, that he and his best friend Donald Trump broke up over a real estate deal in, in 2004, Epstein had bid $36 million for a house in Palm Beach. He took his friend Trump with him to advise. It was a winning bid. He believed. He took his friend Trump with him to advise him on how to move the swimming pool. His friend Trump went around his back and bid $41 million for the house. Epstein believed that his friend Trump did not have the money. That means he was fronting for somebody. Angry about this, he threatened to expose his friend Trump, both legally in a lawsuit and going to the press. At which point Epstein believed Donald Trump went to the Palm beach police and as Epstein said, dropped a dime on him. Revealing, revealing what was going on at Jeffrey Epstein's house. So there is a point of intersection. Is the investigation of the Palm beach police involved in these Epstein files? We don't know. But here is a very precise question. Did the beginning of the Jeffrey Epstein investigation involve a confidential informant whose address was Mar A Lago?
- [27:27]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Okay, well, that should send various people who are listening to this various, various detectives off to find as Jeffrey Epstein referred to Donald Trump in one of his emails that emerged from the Epstein files, the dog that didn't bark.
- [27:45]
Michael Wolff
And also there is specifically in those, in those emails. And matter of fact, it may have been in one of the emails to me that. That Trump knew about the girls.
- [27:56]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Yep. And when was that sent?
- [28:00]
Michael Wolff
I, I think in. I don't know, 2018 or 20, 2019. And then that was the one. And then he said, and, and he wanted Maxwell to stop. And then there's been some issue about that. What did, what did he want Maxwell to stop? And did he want Maxwell to stop. To stop getting girls? I think that's, that was the, that's how a lot of people read it. I, I read it and I, and, and actually I, to the extent it is possible to know, I know that, that, that the reference here was to Maxwell's suit against, against Jeffrey. And, and, and Trump wanted that suit to stop because Maxwell was going to have to testify in the things that might come out related to the girls.
- [29:00]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
So Trump wanted her to stop her defamation suit against Virginia Giuffre. Yes.
- [29:06]
Michael Wolff
So remember, they were both suing each other. There were, there were suit and countersuit.
- [29:11]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Right. Okay. And Trump wanted that. Not Epstein wanted that or they both wanted that.
- [29:16]
Michael Wolff
I think that they both wanted that.
- [29:19]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Okay. Okay. So, I mean, we're going to rely on people, I guess, going through this with a tooth comb, hopefully, and the fakes being weeded out and the real stuff coming to the surface. I noticed today the Harvard.
- [29:33]
Michael Wolff
So we're sort of crowdsourcing the, in this investigation.
- [29:38]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Yeah, it's a very good way of putting it. I noticed today that the Harvard Crimson, who are clearly spending a lot of time, time looking for information relating to Larry Summers, the former president of Harvard, and obviously someone who's recently had to step back from all sorts of things, including what must have been a very lucrative seat on the open AI board, that he was a backup executor to Jeffrey Epstein's will. There were two people, I think, who worked for Epstein as executives, and then Jess Daley, who at the time was the same CEO of Barclays, since been forced to give up that role. And Larry Summers was the backup executor.
- [30:20]
Michael Wolff
Which, you know, one of the things, and one of the things that would point to Jeffrey Epstein, a greater likelihood that Jeffrey Epstein did kill himself is that he changed his will in the days really almost hours prior to his death. And one of his concerns was to take people out of the line of fire. He didn't want their names in this because he knew that would. The blowback against them would be devastating.
- [31:02]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
And I think this, when he appointed Larry Summers, and I need to check, but it was several years before, before he died.
- [31:13]
Michael Wolff
Right. And you know, and you know, Summers may not even, I mean, he's a, he was on the third tier. Summers may not even have known. I mean, I mean, you know, you get, you put, when you do your will, you, you kind of create these eventualities which you understand will never happen. This person dies. If this person dies and that person dies and then that person dies and then that person dies, it's you.
- [31:40]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Yeah, yeah. Well, it was one of those. Anyway, it further implicates Larry Summers, who's had plenty of blowback, so. So there you go. All right. Is there anything more for us to say about the Epstein files right now, or should we move swiftly on to Vladimir Putin's parlor game of choosing who. Who should be the American diplomat, given that we haven't had an American ambassador to Russia since June? Vladimir Putin choosing who should do his negotiations for him?
- [32:12]
Michael Wolff
No. Well, it's, I mean, this is Steve Witkoff, the President's friend and golfing buddy. And Steve Witkoff was a New York real estate guy generally thought to be far from the brightest bulb in a generally dim field anyway.
- [32:35]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Or in a Mar a Lago chandelier, perhaps.
- [32:39]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, I mean, so, you know, in his entire credential, for now, being one of the most pivotal people involved in questions of world war and peace, is that he's Donald Trump's friend. You know, he kind of hung around Trump. I mean, he had no official capacity with Trump other than a kind of security blanket. And another theme here, a guy with a plane. So when Trump's planeand during the campaign, this happened in any number of times when Trump's plane was out of commission, which happened all of the time. And really there was nothing that made Donald Trump nastier than when his plane went out of commission. But when it went out of commission, his friend Witkoff would send his plane to sub in for the the lack of Trump's plane. And a word from our sponsors.
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Michael Wolff
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- [36:40]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
And Michael Wolf and I are back where else inside Donald Trump's head. The White House is denying it, saying of course it's ridiculous and Steve Witkoff is is Trump's choice and Trump's choice alone.
- [36:52]
Michael Wolff
You mean, you mean they're denying that.
- [36:55]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
They're denying that Putin chose Steve Witkoff. They're saying that it was Donald Trump's decision alone and they're saying the piece is not true, which they now say.
- [37:06]
Michael Wolff
Unless there's a little digression here, that it's interesting that the Washington that the Wall Street Journal has done this story again. Yet another quite devastating story in the Wall Street Journal against the interests of Donald Trump.
- [37:24]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Yeah. Following on from another devastating piece in the Wall Street Journal which laid out the entire or, as far as we know, the entire level of Trump grift and just how much money he's been making, him and his family, which is worth another episode. But I wanted to read something from.
- [37:48]
Michael Wolff
Well, just to put a fine point on that. How much money? Because it is billions.
- [37:54]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Yeah, it's billions of dollars.
- [37:56]
Michael Wolff
I mean, let's not. It's billions. It's not like, you know, we've collected. You know, everybody was. Was kind of appalled that, you know, that Bill Clinton after. After the presidency was able to earn $20 million. This is billions.
- [38:12]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Yeah, no, no, it's billions. Through a variety of all sorts of deals. And of course, the latest deal now being discussed is the Gaza deal, to develop the Gaza Strip with all sorts of things. But I'm sure that they want to develop along the border of Ukraine and Russia. Perhaps they'll put in a series of hotels and condos there. We could get a timeshare.
- [38:31]
Michael Wolff
And. And Steve Witkoff, by the way, has also personally made an enormous amount of money in his family. I think his son is the point person here.
- [38:42]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
And of course, we know that the Trump administration pours scorn on what they call the history professors that used to run the diplomatic service and have no interest in that. And then I was just going to read a little bit from the Wall Street Journal. It's hard to pinpoint a moment in history when businessmen have had such direct sway over matters of war and peace. Since the end of World War II, Washington's relationship with Moscow was its most carefully calibrated, helmed by spy agencies who knew their rival intimately. Seasoned diplomats rehearsed rigid protocols to prevent misunderstandings between two nuclear powers poised like scorpions in a jar. And now, of course, we know that Wyckoff has declined offers of briefings. He doesn't like to go in with anybody else. Putin specifically requested that Wyckoff would go and sit him on his own without anybody else around. And then the diplomatic agencies, the State Department, the Marco Rubio runs, have found it very difficult to debrief him because he can't quite tell them exactly what was said.
- [39:53]
Michael Wolff
No. In the first reach out to Wyckoff, which came through the Saudis, that came through mbs. The Saudi crown prince was. Putin would like to speak to you alone.
- [40:16]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Alone. How terrifying.
- [40:18]
Michael Wolff
I can't imagine more frightening ways. No. Anyone else? Alone?
- [40:27]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Possibly the eight most frightening words in the English language. Putin would like to see you alone. Terrifying. Is that eight words? I think it's eight words.
- [40:37]
Paige DeSorbo
Yeah.
- [40:38]
Michael Wolff
I. I mean, so. So we're At a point we can, we can, we can mark this point. If this all comes a cropper, Russia takes over Ukraine, Russia then in continues its and increases its incursions into Europe, threatening Europe. Well, there you go.
- [41:04]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Steve Wycoff, Steve Witkoff. But maybe we can buy a cheap condo on the border, Michael, and then we could do the podcast from there.
- [41:12]
Michael Wolff
I am, I mean, people in New York who know Witkoff, I mean, they, it's really, I mean, these are, this is some serious eye rolling.
- [41:23]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well, Steve says, as we know, he and Jared have said about themselves before, after their peace deal in the Middle east, that they're kind of deal guys and they don't think like traditional diplomats. They try and put themselves in the shoes of the other person they're negotiating with as if nobody had ever thought about that before. But they're deal guys. So let's see what kind of deal they come up with.
- [41:47]
Michael Wolff
Well, it's an, the Wall Street Journal had a, a phrase. I'm a kind of a, you know, I go back some ways, so I, I'm kind of a 60s guy. And make love, not war was a foundational principle of my generation. And the Wall Street Journal updated that. Make money, not war.
- [42:11]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Right? Make grift, not war. Well, President Bone spurs friend is on top of it and he's going to create world peace. Which leads us to President Bone Spurs. New toys in the Department of Defense. Slash war. What am I referring to?
- [42:32]
Michael Wolff
Well, he, he has, he has requisitioned a whole new class of battleships. And this is now called the Trump.
- [42:46]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Class, of course, the Trump class, which will be the biggest class, the best class.
- [42:52]
Michael Wolff
So what is, I mean, what does it mean that Trump slaps his name on everything? And remember, of course, he has done this for his entire career. The foundation, I mean, I can tell you what it means. This is easy. The foundation of his career is slapping his name on everything. This is the fundamental insight. He may never have had any other insight but this, you know, buildings, Real estate guys didn't put their names on buildings. You know, I don't know, they just never occurred to them or they thought, we're a real estate guy, guys. Why should our names go on buildings? Trump said, no, I'm going to create these. Buildings are brands. This is my brand. This is what I'm going to create. I'm going to put my name on these buildings. And not small. I'm going to put it as big as it can possibly be. I'm going to put my name on everything that I can put my name on. And now we're at this point in, in his presidency where that's exactly what he is doing to everything. I mean, there's, there's, it's the Trump Kennedy center, it's the Trump Institute of.
- [44:18]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
World Peace, the Trump battleship. And yet will the Trump battleship go the way of Trump stakes, Trump University, Trump water?
- [44:31]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, well, I mean, I mean, a lot of people, Yes. I mean, a lot of people are noting that these, is, that this is already a, that that outfitting these battleships and requisitioning the battleships in the way that he has requisitioned this is, you know, is, is fighting yesterday's war.
- [44:56]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well, fighting yesterday's war and also slapping it with the curse of Donald Trump that the things that he puts his name on for the, for the most part don't work.
- [45:08]
Michael Wolff
Well, it's a, it's also a funny thing because what you have, and if I were Donald Trump, this might have seems like a likely something that you would consider the ignominy of having your name removed.
- [45:26]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Yes.
- [45:27]
Michael Wolff
Because, I mean, the next, you know, a Democratic, I mean, at some point a Democrat is going to be the president, United States. And, and presumably, you know, a, you know, a highly popular move would be to take down Donald Trump's name.
- [45:48]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well, and also, I mean, God bless her, there is a congresswoman from Ohio who's filed saying, who's sued, saying this is illegal, it needs the permission of Congress to rename a memorial like this. So now this is going to get caught up in the legal process. Joyce Beatty from Ohio, congresswoman from the Third District there has filed saying this is illegal. It needs Congress's power, permission. You need Congress's permission to change the name of the Kennedy Center. So God bless her, Joyce, you're doing God's work. And that will turn into a whole.
- [46:24]
Michael Wolff
But let's, let's go inside Trump's head here and think of what is he thinking about other than obviously that this has always worked for him. But on the other hand, putting your name up there means someone can remove your name name, and that's not going to feel very good. And it's going to be a signal that you have lost the thing that Trump most does not want to want it to be said about him, which is why would he, that it's, that he's a loser. They've taken his name away now. So why would he, why would he set himself up like this?
- [47:09]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well, and why does he keep on doing it? What is he trying to.
- [47:15]
Michael Wolff
Well, the answer Must, well, the answer must be that he believes that's not going to happen. That he is going to, that this, that this ensures his permanence, not his transience.
- [47:29]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Right. Because he feels transient.
- [47:33]
Michael Wolff
Well, it doesn't. Or not. I'm saying he may have, he may have a plan for permanence. This is what he's setting this up for. And maybe it is, maybe it is just the, the notion of brand that you convince people that this is what, what this is the name. This is what it's called. People forget. They just kind of suddenly, suddenly were. The Trump Kennedy center is rolling off the tongue. So this is a way to, just another way to ensure one's permanence, one's legacy. Legacy for him is not anything that you, that, that you do or anything that you accomplish. Legacy is the name Trump. Now, it seems to us reasonably logical that a Democrat will come along and, you know, wipe this away. You know, but he's been doing this for a long time. Maybe he's got a better idea about, about, about what people get used to.
- [48:42]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
It was interesting that the font of Donald Trump going above the Kennedy center, it's slightly smaller, it's a slightly different font. And it felt like whoever had been called in to add his, his name was either being very quietly passive aggressive or indeed having a joke at the president's expense.
- [49:06]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, well, he'll, he'll clean that up. I mean, he'll see that and he'll order it. He'll order his name bigger than Kennedy's name.
- [49:16]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well, the Kennedy family, of course, have come out and said, this is outrageous. Kerry Kennedy has vowed to, Robert Kennedy's sister has vowed to personally take his name off the side of the building the moment he is out of office. She will get the ladder, get up there and do it herself.
- [49:38]
Michael Wolff
Then RFK Jr will run for president. And if he becomes the president, then it will be the Kennedy Trump Kennedy Center.
- [49:48]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Yes, exactly. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Michael Wolff. All right, what else is there for us to discuss?
- [49:57]
Michael Wolff
You know, the, another, a story, curiously, in the Washington Post about the, these ICE videos. Now, this is funny because I would have, I mean, this, this story is that, that, that the Trump White House and ICE are staging these videos, are looking for opportunities to create these videos and then pushing them out on social media. And these videos, to make no mistake, are ice arresting, arresting whoever it arrests. We don't even know who they are. They don't know who they are. They don't know if they're arresting citizens. They don't know if they're arresting perfect law abiding people. They're just arresting well and there are.
- [50:49]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
There'S a trove of emails which says they don't know who they're arresting. They're just under enormous pressure to arrest as many people as they can, make lively videos of them and flood the zone with these videos.
- [51:01]
Michael Wolff
Now this is, this is kind of, kind of curious because, because in what world do these guys think this makes them look good? And these videos are by the way, competing with man on the street videos, iPhone videos showing basically the same thing. So we have, we have a flood across social media of people in extremists suffering, of guys in masks, guys in black and masks acting as a, as a paramilitary force, an internal police force, however you'd like to characterize it. But you can't characterize it in a way that it's going to make people feel good, it would seem to me. And let's take a commercial break.
- [52:08]
Joe from Vanta
Hi, this is Joe from Vanta. In today's digital world, compliance regulations are changing constantly and earning customer trust has never mattered more. Vanta helps companies get compliant fast and stay secure with the most advanced AI, automation and continuous monitoring out there. So whether you're a startup going for your first SoC2 or ISO 27001 or a growing enterprise managing vendor risk, Vanta makes it quick, easy and scalable. And I'm not just saying that because I work here. Get started@vanta.com hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing.
- [52:38]
Ryan Reynolds
You a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means half day. Yeah, Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront.
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Hannah Berner
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Paige DeSorbo
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Hannah Berner
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Paige DeSorbo
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- [54:27]
Hannah Berner
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Paige DeSorbo
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Hannah Berner
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- [54:54]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well, it's interesting because they've really created these videos largely for social media, for reels, and most importantly for TikTok, which we know now is going to go to Donald Trump's close friend Larry Ellison, second richest man in the world with I think a small helping for a Rupert Murdoch. But they're set to music. They're chopped up as if they are some kind of rap video. In fact, they've been using rap music and some of the artists have come forward and said, whoa, you can't use my songs for that. They did it to Sabrina Carpenter. She was outraged that they would use her songs to do this. But the whole thing is presented as if it's entertainment. So these are people who are being arrested. We have no idea if they done anything illegal or not. We don't know if they're here illegally or not. We just know that they're largely Hispanic. They are treated as if this is entertainment and it's unbelievably cruel. And as you say, it's actually up against the videos that real people who see this going on film on their cameras and also upload to TikTok. And then the one thing I would add is there has been incredible pressure from the White House for the Department of Homeland Security to be pumping out these videos every day. So they're increasing the number of influencers who can create this content and pump it out there. At one point they were pumping out a video every half an hour.
- [56:22]
Michael Wolff
So what's in Trump's head about, about this? How does he think this is good for him? I mean, let's think of this in media terms. People get inured to it. Or he believes that the greater American populace that has issues with immigration is going to cheer this on or, Or what? I can't really even think. I think beyond that.
- [57:01]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
I guess he's thinking, or perhaps he's thinking one doesn't want to, to claim one knows that's our job. Okay, then I think he thinks it makes it look like ICE is very busy, that they're doing a lot of work. We know they're recruiting hugely for ice and if you get through the training, you get a ten thousand, thousand dollar bonus. And I think he's making it look like it's, he thinks it looks like it's fun. And I think if you're a sociopath, you do think it's fun. So it's a, like a video game.
- [57:35]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, no, no, I get it. So it's, it's a bet that Americans are. Will, will. Will regard this with a, with a certain degree of, of equanimity and cheerfulness. That seems to me a wrong headed bet. But you know.
- [57:56]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well, I was looking at the numbers on the White House Tick Tock account and how many were watching these videos and one of them in particular, which is captioned are that deportation feeling. I think that one had 40, 45 million views actually.
- [58:15]
Michael Wolff
So that's a, It's a lot of views.
- [58:18]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
That is a lot of views, actually. That is a lot of views. I was hoping that they wouldn't have that many, but, but we don't know how many people were just looking at it thinking, I can't believe they're putting this out. We don't know that.
- [58:30]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, no, I mean, I think it's one of those other things and we have, you know, you know, essentially the politics of the last 10 years has been, has been a bet which a lot of people like me, like us, have lost, that the American people will see through that or won't tolerate that or will say, hey, wait a minute to that. And they don't, but they almost do, you know, I mean, remember, this is an incredibly divided country and so, I mean, I'm always amazed, continue to be amazed that these guys are. Make these kind of, these kind of, kind of existential bets. Yeah, we can, we can do this and it's gonna fly, I mean, because it never exactly flies. So.
- [59:32]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
I refuse to believe that we're quite as divided as everybody said. I think there are the people on the margins and then most people are actually somewhere in the middle and consider themselves independent slash moderate.
- [59:43]
Michael Wolff
And what are those, what are those people going to think about these videos?
- [59:47]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
I think they're going to be horrified at the idea of videos of mothers and children in particular being pushed to the floor. There's one particular video which I should find.
- [59:58]
Michael Wolff
So why would they, why would, why would the White House make this that then? I mean, this seems obvious to me and to, and to us. But I'm trying to see they see and have often seen something else.
- [60:13]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
True. I think what we're seeing in the polling, in as much as it can be trusted, is that the Hispanic vote or Hispanic communities are feeling less confident in Trump than they did when they voted for him.
- [60:31]
Michael Wolff
That would seem utterly intuitive to me. But what I'm trying not to discount is what this, what, what the Trump White House sees because A, I have discounted it many times and I have been wrong and many, many people in the United States have discounted it and they have been wrong. And I can't imagine that we would be wrong on this. These are people being ripped from their homes, ripped from their cars, ripped from their jobs. We don't know who they are. We don't know if they deserve at any, in any way to be ripped out of, out of their lives by men again in masks and in black. That certainly seems like a, like, like an error that anyone would think that this would, would, that people would cheer this on.
- [61:31]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well, the off year election cycle suggests that, you know, in November we saw very confident votes in Virginia and in New Jersey for Democrats. So let's see. But I was going to ask you, what do you think the significance, significance is of this story being in the Washington Post? I mean, we've got Jeff Bezos in his gray hat living it up in Aspen. The Washington Post also had the story about Pete Hegseth saying that he was, that he had demanded that Admiral Bradley, who was in charge of the Venezuelan operation, make sure that he kill any survivors from one of the boat blasts. So two big stories coming out of the Washington Post which it appeared had been somewhat neutralized.
- [62:23]
Michael Wolff
Well, you know how these things, God knows we worked for enough, enough publications with semi distracted or absentee owners and, and it usually works that they are semi distracted and absentee and they're not very really all that interested in content.
- [62:45]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
And I don't think they're interested at all. But they're interested in what? In the proximity that it gives them to power and the White House.
- [62:52]
Michael Wolff
Right, yeah, no, no, that is true. So they're concentrating on that rather than, you know, I'm sure, I'm sure Jeff Bezos at best glances at the paper. So, but then, then they do notice it. At some point, Trump calls them up or somebody calls them up and says, what the fuck here? You know, and then, and then they get rattled and then they make the phone call. But it's, it's a balance. It goes back and forth like that until they get very mad and then they fire somebody and make a change. And then, and then that's, that's a different kind of, kind of moment.
- [63:33]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well, we know he got, Jeff Bezos got involved enough to drop the endorsement that the paper was going to make of the Democratic candidate. They changed their op ed pages, right, the editor, David Shipley. Left, right.
- [63:45]
Michael Wolff
No, they do, they do get involved and they do weigh in. But, but the paper proceeds along as it would. This, this is an ins, this is a large, large institution. It does what it does. It reacts in a certain, in a certain way and continues to react that way until someone slaps them. And, and so, and they may, they may well shortly get slapped again. Or Jeff Bezos may be thinking, jesus, this Donald Trump is in trouble here. Let's, let's.
- [64:23]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Or he may be thinking, well, I've paid his wife 4 million, $40 million for the Melania documentary. That should keep him off my back.
- [64:31]
Michael Wolff
70% of the back end. And she gets a hundred percent of.
- [64:34]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
The dolls by that deal. Sponsorships by that deal. You always say that whenever we mention Melania. And if you haven't watched the trailer, people, you really must. It's delicious. It's delicious. It does appear that she didn't watch the, the election victory. I'm assuming that's what she's referring to when he says to her, it opens with a phone call of Donald Trump saying to Melania, did you see it? Did you watch it? And she's like, no, Mr. Oh. She goes, hello, Mr. President. And then he goes, did you watch it? Did you see it? Did you see it on television? She goes, no, I will watch it on the news. And so, so maybe Jeff Bezos thinks that the $40 million for the documentary is enough.
- [65:19]
Michael Wolff
Or, and maybe he thinks Donald Trump is going south, I think.
- [65:23]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
And so is hedging his bets. Yes. Well, I think A lot of people are probably thinking that they were overzealous in their support of Donald Trump at the beginning of his, at the beginning of his presidency and are now beginning to feel a little anxious.
- [65:35]
Michael Wolff
No, that's a good subject that we should come back to because all of these guys, all of these business guys, what happens to them if, if this really does go south?
- [65:47]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well, what a chilling note to end on for the holidays, Michael, but that's.
- [65:52]
Michael Wolff
An optimist, that I would consider that an optimistic note.
- [65:57]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
So we have a special treat for viewers and listeners. On Thursday. We've done a special on Donald Trump's relationship with television and how television basically created his presidency and how his essential operating system is television. And I will say it's one of the most fun conversations I think I've had with you.
- [66:17]
Michael Wolff
Not just created the presidency, but created him.
- [66:21]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Created him, rebirthed him as a successful character at a time in his life.
- [66:29]
Michael Wolff
When, when I, I would even go there further. He just does not exist as a, as a human being outside of television.
- [66:36]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Well, it's one of the best conversations I think I've, I've had with you. And we touch on all the characters that influenced it. Jeff Zucker, Mark Burnett, and of course, Roger Ailes, who founded Fox News. And then Sean Hannity who turns into to the President's most important advisor.
- [66:59]
Michael Wolff
Yeah. So, yes. So you could have a Merry Christmas with Donald Trump and television.
- [67:06]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Yeah, Merry Christmas. So instead of watching television, you can watch YouTube and Michael's very thoughtful explanation of it and my continual machine gun lip questions. Anyway, have a very happy holiday between now and then. Michael, what are you doing for Christ? Christmas Eve? I imagine you skipping through the village of Amagansett with little lanterns and your children singing carols at the top of their voice.
- [67:32]
Michael Wolff
Yes. And, and actually there is a, a Presbyterian church just a few doors down from, from, from our house. And, and I'm, I'm quite familiar with Presbyterian churches and this is a kind of classic one in which about 12 people show up and they're all over some, some impressive age threshold. And, and we, we go, we like it.
- [68:03]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
Fun. All right, well, have a lovely Christmas Eve and Christmas Day and I will see you back for whatever has happened between now and then on Saturday.
- [68:15]
Michael Wolff
Fantastic.
- [68:16]
Podcast Host (possibly a co-host with Michael Wolff)
All right, Happy holidays and don't forget to subscribe to the Daily Beast. You could give a Beast tier membership of the Daily Beast to a friend for, for holiday.
- [68:27]
Michael Wolff
And we should thank our top level members and they are Sandra Clark, methinks travel with Carl Andrew Beaver, the Capinator Harry Clark Dawn McCarthy Daniel dog lover M. Griner Fulvia Orlando Herbie Andrew Melor Las Conde Bonzo Val Love Francesco Andrea Hodel Bocock D.C. sharon Shipley Connie Rutherford Karen White Heidi Riley thank you all. Devin, Anna and Jesse. We are in your debt.
- [69:12]
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Hannah Berner
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- [69:54]
Paige DeSorbo
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Hannah Berner
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- [70:04]
Paige DeSorbo
Of course I'm getting my dad Tommy John. Oh and you of course it's giving.
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Hannah Berner
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Paige DeSorbo
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- [71:49]
Joe from Vanta
Want more great listens?
- [71:50]
Michael Wolff
Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily.
- [71:53]
Joe from Vanta
Beast podcast@thedailybeast.com podcasts if you enjoyed this.
- [71:58]
Hannah Berner
Episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to thedailybeast.com membership/podcast and sign up today.