Loading summary
Transcript141 lines
- [00:00]
Advertiser
This holiday season, reach for the one butter that never disappoints.
- [00:04]
Michael Wolfe
Kerrygold.
- [00:05]
Sleep Number Advertiser
Made with milk from grass fed cows.
- [00:07]
Advertiser
On Irish family farms, it's rich, creamy and perfect for baking. Whether browning butter for cookies or crafting the flakiest pie crust, Kerrygold's high butterfat content makes all the difference in flavor and texture. Holiday treats will taste extraordinary time. It's always vanishing. The commute, the errands, the work functions, the meetings. Selling your car. Unless you sell your car with Carvana, get a real offer in minutes. Get it picked up from your door. Get paid on the spot so fast you'll wonder what the catch is. There isn't one. We just respect you and your time. Oh, you're still here. Move along now. Enjoy your day. Sell your car today. Carvana Pick up fees may apply.
- [00:57]
Sleep Number Advertiser
Why choose a sleep number Smart bed.
- [00:58]
Instacart Advertiser
Can I make my sight softer?
- [01:00]
Michael Joanna
Can I make my sight firmer? Can we sleep cooler?
- [01:03]
Sleep Number Advertiser
Sleep number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your Sleep number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night. It's our Black Friday sale. Recharge this season with a bundle of cozy, soothing comfort. Now only $17.99 for our C2 mattress and base plus free premium delivery price is higher in Alaska and Hawaii. Check it out at a Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com today.
- [01:29]
Michael Joanna
Although in that Trump jiu jitsu, he is now saying he directed the release of the Epstein files. What we of course know is that he has done everything, everything possible, including putting himself in the firing line on this, not to release the Epstein files. I think he's gotten, if not a hundred percent of what he wants. You know, he's gotten pretty close to it. He's in control of the Epstein files. Congress has given him the tools with which to parse, edit and curate the Epstein files. So what do we have at the end of the day? We have actually probably just more distractions in the process of getting to the bottom of the Epstein story.
- [02:23]
Michael Wolfe
Michael Joanna, we have a lot of new listeners and viewers to the podcast over the last couple of weeks, and I thought we should just one more time recap for people who aren't regular listeners or viewers. Exactly what we're trying to do inside Trump's head.
- [02:40]
Michael Joanna
Having spent an enormous amount of time with Donald Trump and covering Donald Trump to the tune of four books and God knows how many attendant podcasts, I have been particularly frustrated, I think, with the way other people cover Donald Trump. That Other people, other reporters, other journalists cover this Donald Trump as they would any other president. That Donald Trump is a reflection of what he does, of the policies he proposes.
- [03:20]
Michael Wolfe
This.
- [03:21]
Michael Joanna
My view has always been that it doesn't work that way with Donald Trump, that he is a reflection of what he got up in the morning, what was on his mind when he got up this morning. It's mercurial, it's impulsive. It passes, or sometimes unexpectedly, it returns. And because he doesn't really have advisors, he doesn't really listen to anyone. Even if he has advisors, it doesn't make any difference because he doesn't. Doesn't listen. It is all about him. It is a government of one. And what that is about, it's not. Donald Trump has a vision of the way he wants his government to be or the way he wants his country to be. It is instead just what comes into his head at a given moment. And so I think what we've set out to do is try to see Donald Trump, to see the Trump world, to see Trump news through that vantage point. What the devil is the guy thinking?
- [04:39]
Advertiser
Why?
- [04:40]
Michael Joanna
How long will he hold that thought? How will it be interpreted by others around him?
- [04:46]
Michael Wolfe
I think that's a perfect up sum of what we're trying to do. And I would add only a quote that I've mentioned a couple of times on the podcast. But this thing that Trey Parker said when asked why south park had become political, it's not that it's become political, it's that politics has become pop culture. And because we've got a president who spent 14 seasons on a very popular reality show, he has made winning and losing elections almost as exciting as who was gonna win American Idol when it first launched. And I think the merging of all of it on social media, too, is just enthralling, exasperating, and potentially terrifying. So moving on, moving swiftly on. So today we're going to definitely cover. We have to come to. We're obviously going to start with Epstein, but we have to, at some point, make sure we leave enough time to del into.
- [05:53]
Michael Joanna
Let me, let me guess what you're going to say. Who do we want to delve into? And I would guess that it would be the most ridiculous person at today in the Trump administration. And every day there's a new ridiculous person. But this. This person has got to take the cake.
- [06:11]
Michael Wolfe
Lindsey Halligan, who you have been flagging for the last few months, as singly the most incompetent lawyer as you. As you pointed out, Trump often says he may not have the best lawyers, but he has the hottest lawyers. He. Pam Bondi, he had to blanch.
- [06:27]
Michael Joanna
Her function was entirely to be a picture on his phone that he could show. He could show people.
- [06:34]
Michael Wolfe
And then, unfortunately, she had to turn into a working lawyer. And she's proved her a staggering incompetence. And, of course, absolutely no match for James Comey and his lawyer. Come back over there.
- [06:48]
Michael Joanna
Yeah, because it's really worth. Let's not. Let's not deliver the whole punchline here.
- [06:53]
Michael Wolfe
Okay. Okay. All right, so let's start with the Epstein files. And where are we? We know there was a unanimous vote, which happened just after we recorded on Tuesday. Now, what happens? Will we see the Epstein files?
- [07:08]
Michael Joanna
I think that the answer is no. At least we will not see the full Epstein files. We will not know what we haven't seen in the Epstein files that whatever this legislation, whatever the point of this legislation, it is effectively leaves of the Epstein files and what will be released from the Epstein files in the hands of the White House. And obviously, although in that, you know, Trump jiu jitsu, he is now saying he directed the release of the Epstein files, what we, of course, know is that he has done everything, everything possible, including being fair, putting himself in the. In the. In the firing line, this, not to release the Epstein files. So. But I think he's gotten, if not 100% of what he wants. You know, he's gotten pretty close to it. He's in control of the Epstein files. Congress has given him the tools with which to parse, edit, and curate the Epstein files. So what do we have? At the end of the day, we don't. You know, we have actually probably just more distractions in the process of getting to the bottom of the Epstein story.
- [08:43]
Michael Wolfe
I know that one doesn't always apply logic around Trump and his administration, but is there a logic with which he can hold onto the files, or do you think. I mean, you suggested in the last podcast he might have bur burnt evidence.
- [09:01]
Michael Joanna
They've outlined this. He. They don't have to turn over files of which are relevant to an ongoing investigation. Everything can be an ongoing investigation. Nor do they have to turn over files that are classified. And basically, they can classify anything. So. So, hell, what are we left with?
- [09:28]
Michael Wolfe
Would the photos that you say you saw at Jeffrey Epstein's of Donald Trump around the pool in Palm beach surrounded by young, topless women. Why would they be classified?
- [09:41]
Michael Joanna
Well, you don't. We don't have to know that you can classify. Basically, you can classify anything. Whether that would hold up in a court is kind of. It's kind of irrelevant. Is that, could you, could you argue that that's part of an ongoing investigation? Well, there's an ongoing investigation of all of Epstein's crimes. Is that related to that? I mean, and do you have to justify that? That's also not clear. And. Or by the time you justify that, everything has moved on anyway. So, you know, I think that we are. Have only marginally moved off the place where we were before there was this legislation. Trump is in charge, and it almost is worse because what he will do now, of course, is release aspects of these files that incriminate other people.
- [10:50]
Michael Wolfe
Right. So in theory, he's supposed to release them within the next 30 days, which takes us bang up to the holidays, too, which means that people won't be paying as much attention, probably, and the House will have gone back for its recess.
- [11:05]
Michael Joanna
Yeah.
- [11:05]
Michael Wolfe
I mean, is this like the dog that's caught the car?
- [11:09]
Michael Joanna
It's one of those things that everybody is. Now, the headlines are the Epstein files are going to be released. That's completely wrong. Let's get inside Trump's head. They're not going to be released. Quite the opposite. We are no farther along than we have been. The headlines are wrong. The headlines should be files are not going to be released.
- [11:33]
Michael Wolfe
So is this because he's instructed Palm Bondi and Todd Blanche, his former personal lawyers now running the doj, to just bury everything? I mean, aren't those files spread across government departments? There are supposed to be lots and lots of copies of them. So can't people start leaking them if he decides not release any effective information?
- [11:54]
Michael Joanna
I mean, that's the question. Why doesn't everything get leaked? Some things get leaked. Other people don't. Other things don't get leaked. Great secrets don't get. Get leaked. We don't know. It's called a leak. It's kind of random. It depends upon a person in a particular. At a particular point with particular information being willing to risk their job and potentially their freedom. So who knows? But what we do know on an institutional basis is that he has a Justice Department which understands its first function and responsibility is to protect him.
- [12:32]
Michael Wolfe
Okay, so this is a very different take than other people have been giving everybody sort of clamoring for the release and getting their magnifying glasses ready. You just think there's not going to be any interesting information at all, or very little.
- [12:44]
Michael Joanna
I think that there will be interesting information that will shine a spotlight far away from Donald Trump.
- [12:52]
Michael Wolfe
Okay. So who do you think is most vulnerable in this? I mean, he said he's going after Bill Clinton. Who are the other people he said he's going after Larry Summers, who's this week had to recuse himself from almost everything.
- [13:05]
Michael Joanna
I mean, clearly any Democrats or any people he has some, some issue with.
- [13:11]
Michael Wolfe
And do you have any insight into why the Biden administration didn't release these. Was this because nobody was clamoring for the release of them?
- [13:22]
Michael Joanna
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think nobody clamoring for it. I think that they probably didn't know what it was. I think that they were probably, you know, forget about this. This is, this is, this is old news. And, and let me remember, nobody was particularly interested in this story at that, at that point in time. And of course there are a lot of Democrats in, in this, there's a lot of people, a lot of prominent people showed up at Jeffrey Epstein's house. Were they implicated in any having a conversation with Jeffrey Epstein? And I include myself here. No. So in at least one point of view, which I think the Biden administration probably had, is that, is that.
- [14:20]
Michael Wolfe
It.
- [14:20]
Michael Joanna
Would be unfair to release this. It would complicate it, would, it would make problems for people who didn't deserve those, those, those problems. And to the degree that this was about, fundamentally more about Donald Trump than anyone else, they were already pursuing so many things against Donald Trump that one more was, you know, I don't know, a bridge too far.
- [14:54]
Michael Wolfe
Well, and I think they didn't factor him coming back for a second administration. Right. They thought they dispensed with him.
- [15:00]
Michael Joanna
Well, no, I don't think that they did think that. They, I mean, that's, that's why, I mean, yes, they partly did, but partly clearly, you know, he was, he was, you know, there were two federal indictments against him and then two further state indictments because people were, you know, I mean, they, they certainly wanted to, they certainly wanted a silver bullet which they thought that they had.
- [15:25]
Michael Wolfe
Do you think this becomes the Epstein files? Regardless of how much material comes out and how much the DOJ is able to hold back? Do you think it becomes an actual factor in the midterms?
- [15:36]
Michael Joanna
Good question. It very well might. I mean, I think it's a question of. Does it seem like he is stonewalling? Stonewalling. That's the classic, the classic cover up. Does it seem like there is a cover up going on? You know, it sort of comes down to its politics is a cover up, a droid adroit enough for there not to seem to be a cover up. Is it stumbling and incompetent enough? And let's, you know, never underestimate the incompetence of the Trump, Trump administration to appear to be actually a cover up, which it has been so far. Remember, remember the incompetence here. Trump saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, we can release the Epstein files. The people, the key figures in his administration saying, we're going to release the Epstein files. And then suddenly, you know, a screeching about face. There's nothing in the Epstein files. We're not going to do anything. We're not releasing anything. Go home.
- [16:41]
Michael Wolfe
Well, and also Elon Musk, in his fit of pique, when he's had his divorce or at least separation from Donald Trump, tweeting out Trump is in the Epstein files.
- [16:54]
Michael Joanna
That was not helpful to Donald Trump.
- [16:56]
Michael Wolfe
Right. Then he deleted the tweet. And now, after some kind of period of separation, he's now back in the fold and Trump is throwing bones at him at his dinner with mbs, for example.
- [17:09]
Michael Joanna
Saudi bones.
- [17:12]
Michael Wolfe
Well, I, I can't believe I used that. Oh, God, that was a terrible phrase.
- [17:17]
Michael Joanna
But yes, it's good, It's a good phrase. It's, it's. Let's, let's be, you know, I mean, it is a whole other subject which I think we should spend some time on. You know, the fundamental connection between, between the Trump administration and the Persian Gulf in this unlimited pool of cash which they have accessed, they've accessed for the Trump family and for businesses everywhere who have then come to support Donald Trump.
- [17:51]
Michael Wolfe
Right. And just reminding people that Jared Kushner kicked off his business Affinity partners with $2 billion from the Saudis.
- [18:00]
Michael Joanna
Right. And, you know, I did a substack piece yesterday, I think, about Jeffrey Epstein's connection to mbs, the money in the Persian Gulf and that that created. It was initially before anyone else. Epstein is one of the people who saw the opportunities. The Pickens were ripe. And he spent an enormous amount of time in the Persian Gulf with MBS playing video games with him.
- [18:34]
Michael Wolfe
Jeffrey Epstein played video games with the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia.
- [18:38]
Michael Joanna
Yeah, you had to, apparently. You had to. That was the only kind of, I mean, that was the central way to make a relationship like man children.
- [18:48]
Michael Wolfe
So, like man children, of course.
- [18:50]
Michael Joanna
And then Todd Barrick, Epstein's friend, Trump's close confidant and advisor to this day, a pivotal figure in this. And then MBS is one of the first foreign visitors to the, the, to the Trump White House in 2017. Saudi Arabia is one of the first foreign trips the President makes, and then MBS is supported by the Trump administration in essentially a coup against the rest of his family. He jumps over other contenders and becomes the Saudi leader. And everyone profits off of this, right?
- [19:40]
Michael Wolfe
Except I noticed that Jeff Bezos wasn't at the dinner for mbs, at least as far as I could see. Which that would have been an awkward one for him, given that he's the owner of the Washington Post, and it was the Washington Post columnist who was dismembered by, allegedly, mbs.
- [19:59]
Michael Joanna
And a toss to our sponsors who we loved.
- [20:04]
Michael Wolfe
Every year I cling to my favorite holiday tradition, our chaotic family Christmas photo. Now that my kids are older and live across the country, I load those memories onto my Aura frame. Aura truly sparks joy. I love that you can preload photos before it ships and share unlimited photos and video. Just download the Aura app and connect to Wi Fi. My mom got hers, plugged it in an instant, saw decades of Coles family chaos. You can't wrap togetherness, but you can frame it for a limited time. Visit auraframes.com and get $45 off or as best selling Carver Mat frames named number one by Wirecutter by using promo code dailybeast at the checkout. That's a U R A frames.com promo code daily Beast this exclusive Black Friday Cyber Monday deal is their best deal of the year, so order now before it ends. Support the show by mentioning us at checkout. Terms and conditions apply.
- [21:06]
Instacart Advertiser
This holiday season. Instacart is bringing magic to the people who make it magic for others. Get delivery and deals on everything you need this season. Whether it's a last minute holiday decor, emergency coverage for the holiday party, or just avoiding going out in the cold, Instacart is here. Plus November 24th to December 23rd is deal month, with savings from your favorite retailers and deals on grocery, electronics, beauty, toys and more. Download the Instacart app to get a little magic delivered today.
- [21:37]
Michael Wolfe
Time.
- [21:38]
Advertiser
It's always vanishing. The commute, the errands, the work functions. The meetings. Selling your car. Unless you sell your car with carvana, get a real offer in minutes. Get it picked up from your door. Get paid on the spot so fast you'll wonder what the catch is. There isn't one. We just respect you and your time. Oh, you're still here. Move along now. Enjoy your day. Sell your car today. Pickup fees may apply.
- [22:06]
Michael Joanna
AI agents are everywhere, automating tasks and making decisions at machine speed. But agents make mistakes. Just one rogue agent can do big damage before you even notice, Rubrik Agent cloud is the only platform that helps you monitor agents, set guardrails and rewind mistakes so you can unleash agents, not risk. Accelerate your AI transformation@rubrik.com that's R U V R I K.com.
- [22:40]
Michael Wolfe
And Michael Wolfe and I are back inside Trump's head.
- [22:43]
Michael Joanna
Remember that moment when, after the Khashoggi thing, everybody was returning their Saudi money.
- [22:49]
Michael Wolfe
A brief moment, a brief moment.
- [22:51]
Michael Joanna
A brief moment, moment.
- [22:52]
Michael Wolfe
Although if you talk to women who live there, they all say it's just changed radically. They can drive now, they can go out without head scarves. Things are much better. And that he's dragged a country that was far behind into, into the modern world.
- [23:07]
Michael Joanna
That is, that, that is true. An insular country, then became a, you know, a financial powerhouse. And, and that was certainly, that was, as he described it to me, part of the conversation that Epstein had with mbs well before this, well before MBS came to ultimate power and well before the Persian Gulf states became the world's financial engine.
- [23:43]
Michael Wolfe
Right. No, it's clear he's modernizing the country and it's a fascinating story as it unfolds. All right. Right, so let's get to the woman you have been talking about consistently for the last few months. Lindsey Halligan with the fabulous hair. Lindsay Halligan of the fabulous hair, but the less intense grip on the law.
- [24:04]
Michael Joanna
So Lindsay Halligan, who I have been aware of because of, I closely followed the Trump 2024 campaign and she was a kind of in and out figure in the campaign and a comic fig. No one ever took her seriously. No one ever assumed that she could do anything, no less a legal job within the context of the campaign. She was there for the sole purpose of being Trump. It amused Trump to have these very good looking women as his lawyers, you know, and this goes to Trump's whole mixed feeling about his lawyers who he always had, I mean, the lawyers who actually knew what they were doing. He always had a great deal of contempt for them. So to surround himself with these, these comely women who somehow got through law school was a something he could brag about. I may not have the smartest legal team, but I have the hottest. And then he would put up the, the, the iPhone. But it also gave him enormous dominance over these, these so called lawyers. They of course would do anything that he said because they didn't know what to do. They had no real independent, they had no independent legal reputations or practice. And Lindsey Halligan, I'm sure she just kind of she was somewhat innocent in all this. She kind of wandered into it and it was like, why not?
- [26:00]
Michael Wolfe
Well, I want to read what the judge said. I mean, before we do, before we get together, Michael and I usually text back and forth things that we've spotted. And Michael spotted this comment from the judge on the case, and I'm going to read it out loud. It's challenging to unpack the DOJ letter he wrote because it contains so many factual, legal, and typographical errors. Indeed, even attorneys employed by the Texas attorney general, who professes to be a political ally of the Trump administration, describe the DOJ letter as legally unsound, baseless, erroneous, ham fisted, and a mess.
- [26:42]
Michael Joanna
Yeah. I mean, this should not be a surprise. The only thing that is a surprise here is that, that the United States government and Justice Department would actually do this. But what's not a surprise is that when you put a, when no lawyer in the government is willing to do what you, the president wants done, and you send in a lawyer with absolutely no training and no experience, that would be Lindsay Halligan, and she is forced, alone, not with any assistance, not with any, not, not with a staff around her to present this case to the grand jury. It's going to be obviously, in all likelihood, overwhelming. It's overwhelmingly likely that it will be a complete hash, which it was.
- [27:34]
Michael Wolfe
And also, especially when you're taking to task the former head of the FBI, a Republican who has hired a lawyer in Michael Dribbon, who has, I believe I was looking at his record presented in front of the Supreme Court. That's just one lawyer. Is it his actual lawyer? A hundred times, Michael. A hundred times he's been in front of the Supreme Court.
- [27:59]
Michael Joanna
His actual lawyer, Patrick Fitzgerald, has been a mainstay of the Justice Department, has been a special prosecutor, is a major presence in the Justice Department, as James Comey was. So this is a, this is kind of the Justice Department against the Justice Department.
- [28:22]
Michael Wolfe
Exactly. And one is competent and one is utterly incompetent and has presented a mess to the judge. So we should get a result from that case anytime soon. But the assumption is it will be.
- [28:36]
Michael Joanna
Dismissed and the likelihood is that they'll just throw it all out.
- [28:39]
Michael Wolfe
Right. Which does that bode well for everybody else coming up on the docket?
- [28:43]
Michael Joanna
Yeah.
- [28:43]
Michael Wolfe
That Trump is going after.
- [28:44]
Michael Joanna
I think it clearly does. And by. But I mean, this is at one of those interesting possible pivots here. Trump is going after people who are not powerless. They have the ability to bite back, and they are obviously biting back. And they have constituencies of their own and power bases of their own, and it shows. Trump is among everything else that he is, he is a fool. He doesn't think things through. He doesn't come to things with a strategic point of view. He can't think two steps in front of him. And it all comes a cropper, which it did the last time he engaged, by the way, with James Comey. And that immediately resulted in the Mueller investigation and was devastating to his first term. The only thing that he has is this ability to make these egregious mistakes and then to distract from them, often with other egregious mistakes.
- [30:02]
Michael Wolfe
Okay, so what's going on inside Trump's head in terms of this case against Comey is clearly going to be thrown out. The judge is already signaling it. What will be in Trump's head when that happens? Is it just about how to drive the narrative on? It's a cliffhanger at the end of an episode and he's just driving into the next.
- [30:22]
Michael Joanna
Curiously, what he will do is try to demonize Comey further so he'll double down.
- [30:27]
Michael Wolfe
His habit to double down always, always double down.
- [30:32]
Michael Joanna
Comey is a, you know, this is a plot by the Democrats. This is a plot by Comey. This is, this is the, you know, the, his enemies within the government, on and on and on and on. Which, which has some appeal to his base. He's standing up against these, these secret.
- [30:56]
Michael Wolfe
Forces right against the deep state.
- [30:59]
Michael Joanna
And once more, a message from our sponsors.
- [31:05]
Instacart Advertiser
This holiday season, Instacart is bringing magic to the people who make it magic for others. Get delivery and deals on everything you need this season. Whether it's a last minute holiday decor, emergency coverage for the holiday party, or just avoiding going out in the cold, Instacart is here. Plus November 24th to December 23rd is deal month with savings from your favorite retailers and deals on grocery, electronics, beauty, toys and more. Download the Instacart app to get a little magic delivered today.
- [31:35]
Sleep Number Advertiser
Why choose a sleep number Smart bed?
- [31:36]
Instacart Advertiser
Can I make my site softer?
- [31:38]
Michael Joanna
Can I make my site firmer? Can we sleep cooler?
- [31:42]
Sleep Number Advertiser
Sleep number does that cools up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your sleep number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night. It's our Black Friday sale Recharge this season with a bundle of cozy soothing comfort. Now only $17.99 for our C2 mattress and base plus free premium delivery. Price is higher in Alaska and Hawaii. Check it out at a Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com today you know you've.
- [32:06]
Instacart Advertiser
Reached peak couple energy when your undies match. Meundies Match Me has you both covered literally in super soft ultra modal undies, socks, PJs and loungewear. Festive prints. Check. Cozy vibes. Double check. And right now, it's deal season. Get up to 50% off site wide for Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Take your couple game to the next level with Meundies Match Me. To get deals up to 50% off, go to Meundies.com enter promo code acast that's Meundies.com acast code acast hi, this.
- [32:46]
Michael Joanna
Is Joe from Vanta. In today's digital world, compliance regulations are changing constantly and earning customer trust has never mattered more. Vanta helps companies get compliant fast and stay secure with the most advanced AI, automation and continuous monitoring out there. So whether you're a startup going for your first SoC2 or ISO 27001 or a growing enterprise managing vendor risk, Vanta makes it quick, easy and scalable. And I'm not just saying that because I work here. Get started@vanta.com.
- [33:18]
Michael Wolfe
And we're back inside where of course, you know it. Trump's head. Is it possible that Halligan's failure is good for Trump in creating a different headline from the Epstein case place?
- [33:31]
Michael Joanna
Well, I, I think it would be a better headline if, if, if he had, if, if he was going to be able to pursue James Comey. I mean, you know, failure, another failure. I mean as, as I, as I say, he is often, he distracts from his failures, often with other failures. So yes, I guess in that, in that, in that, with that logic, which is hardly what one would call logic, it might work. I mean he will always keep pushing on. There is never a moment with, which would happen in other normal administrations in which there is a kind of taking stock and a kind of, and you sense the, you sense the underlying shame of it all. And that never happens with Donald Trump because a, because he feels no shame. And he's able in the face of shame, to summon enormous righteousness, a kind of righteousness that no non sociopath would be able to summon.
- [34:53]
Michael Wolfe
It is remarkable that Larry Summers, a former secretary to the treasurer and former president of Harvard, is forced to recuse himself or has been pressured to, you know, leave the board of OpenAI, stop teaching at Harvard. And yet Donald Trump, Jeffrey Epstein's best friend for 15 years, is in the White House and the most powerful man in the world.
- [35:18]
Michael Joanna
Of course, I mean that Is that is what's going on now? Everybody trying to get their heads around this. That's the reckoning or the answer that people, people are looking for. How did this happen? Should this have happened? What does it mean that this has happened? I mean, that's why Epstein, Epstein, Epstein keeps going on, because it, because everybody understands that it says something. The problem is they don't exactly know what it says.
- [35:48]
Michael Wolfe
So, Michael, hold on, hold on. Let me just get this straight. So when he was arrested in two, the indictment there for having sex with girls who are underage was actually to do with his behavior in the late 90s and the 2000s, early 2000s, when Donald Trump and he were tooling around.
- [36:09]
Michael Joanna
Yes.
- [36:10]
Michael Wolfe
Okay, okay. So that is helpful to just bear that in mind as other much more accomplished people in a sense than Donald Trump have been felled by their adjacency to Epstein.
- [36:23]
Michael Joanna
Epstein, yeah, obviously. I mean, this is one of those Trumpian things. Remember, he has always denied. I mean, he has both admitted to knowing Epstein and admitted to knowing him in a very, what would be the word, intimate sense. They were bros. Mark Singer, a writer for the New Yorker, just described a plane trip that he took with Donald Trump in, I think, 1996 in which Ghisain Maxwell was on the plane with Donald Trump and then Galain and Trump got on the phone with Jeffrey Epstein. And Singer describes quite vividly a very intimate, jocular, you know, friends completing each other's sentences, kind of phone call and relationship. These guys were, as I've said over and over and over and over again, have the closest of friends, each other's best friend. I believe in life that they have never. That they had each never had a relationship as close as the one they had with each other.
- [37:42]
Michael Wolfe
So, Michael, what I'm taking away from this is it doesn't really matter that we had a unanimous House vote for the release of the Epstein files, other than as a big fu to Donald Trump, because he's not going to release anything anyway of any value. Value.
- [37:57]
Michael Joanna
Yeah, no. And I think that that's probably where this should come back to. What is the meaning of this vote? Insofar as the Republican Party and Donald Trump, I think we can really assume that we are not going to get the answers that this is theoretically designed to get and that the real implications, at least the immediate implications, are what it says. He lost his party on this. So what that means is questions about his own lame duck status or his increasing lame duck status, and that this is going to be an ongoing. The Epstein Epstein, Epstein of it all is going to continue and it won't stop with answers because there won't be any answers. But it will continue as often scandals do, precisely because there are no answers.
- [39:03]
Michael Wolfe
But it is the one thing he hasn't been able to control. I mean, there is potentially a wag the dog scenario here where he goes into Venezuela, something he wanted to do in his first administration. He's going to have to think of something very dramatic to move on from the Epstein files.
- [39:21]
Michael Joanna
Well, I mean there have been many dramatic things and he hasn't been able to move on. And I don't think that is going to happen.
- [39:28]
Michael Wolfe
Well, I think on Friday we should just list all the things that we thought might be. Do you remember when we were all talking about the demolishing of the East Wing? What happened to that? Is it a pile of rubble? Have they started rebuilding? We need to follow up on that.
- [39:41]
Michael Joanna
The whole White House has been demolished.
- [39:43]
Michael Wolfe
You haven't seen nothing would surprise me. I just wonder how fast he's going to be able to build back. Better the ballroom. That's what I want to see anyway. We've got some more questions for Melania which we should run through in our Ask Melania section. This is a good one from Sandra Sundrad. Melania, a question. Would you marry your husband if you had the information you have today, back then when you first met? Could you ask her that, please?
- [40:18]
Michael Joanna
Well, that is.
- [40:19]
Michael Wolfe
That's a question for a novel question from Alania. Will you please fill out this US Citizen test, hand her the test and calculate the score. I will say I don't think those citizen tests are very difficult question for Melania. What are the names of the other models? Who worked for Paolo Zampoli when you did? Who organized his book Work Work? Who else worked with him in his modeling agency? Were there specific photographers he used? Where did you live while working for him? What client homes did you visit? What are the names of people you traveled with when you were going on modelling jobs?
- [40:58]
Michael Joanna
Very good. Who is that question from?
- [41:00]
Michael Wolfe
That is from SGW 3612.
- [41:04]
Michael Joanna
Well, thank you for that because that is right on point.
- [41:07]
Michael Wolfe
This isn't a question, but this is rather a good point from Margaret W. Blair Block. During the timeline when Trump and Epstein were buddies, Trump himself was very much a Democrat. I'm 84 years old and I remember him on the television constantly and I was shocked when he suddenly turned Republican to run for president. So when he says he wants all these Democrats in the files identified, he was a Democrat.
- [41:33]
Michael Joanna
Good point.
- [41:34]
Michael Wolfe
Very good point.
- [41:36]
Michael Joanna
Epstein, by the way, was a Republican.
- [41:38]
Michael Wolfe
Was he? But he would be one of those fiscally, you know, fiscally responsible, obviously socially liberal.
- [41:46]
Michael Joanna
Yes, he was just a business guy. Whatever, Whatever. Whatever was best for making money then anybody with great questions like that. This is, this is very helpful to the ongoing legal procedure against the First Lady. Thank you.
- [42:04]
Michael Wolfe
We'll be broadcasting again on Saturday today.
- [42:06]
Michael Joanna
Great.
- [42:07]
Michael Wolfe
Thank you all. And don't forget to subscribe. Leave us a comment and tell all your friends over Thanksgiving, as you're trying to figure out what on earth to discuss with your relatives, why don't you send them a copy of Inside Trump's header ahead of time and you can all discuss our latest episode around the turkey. If you have been thank you for joining us. A special shout out to our beast tier of members. Herbie, Andrew Mellor, Michael. You always pronounce it Melor, but I think it's Mellor and I've asked Andrew to tell us. Fulvia Orlando, Laz Conde, Sandra Clark, M. Griner, Bonzo Val LA, Francisco Bocock, D.C. karen White, Heidi Riley, Connie Rutherford, Sharon Shipley and Andrea Hodel.
- [42:50]
Michael Joanna
Thank you all. Devin, Anna, Jesse without you we would be.
- [42:56]
Michael Wolfe
We would not be here.
- [43:01]
Sleep Number Advertiser
Why choose a Sleep number Smart bed?
- [43:03]
Instacart Advertiser
Can I make my sight softer?
- [43:05]
Michael Joanna
Can I make my sight firmer? Can we sleep cooler?
- [43:08]
Sleep Number Advertiser
Sleep number does that cool up to eight times faster and lets you choose your ideal comfort on either side your Sleep number setting. Enjoy personalized comfort for better sleep night after night. It's our Black Friday sale Recharge this season with a bundle of cozy, soothing comfort. Now only $17.99 for our C2 mattress and base plus free premium delivery price is higher in Alaska and Hawaii. Check it out at a Sleep number store or sleepnumber.com today.
- [43:33]
Michael Joanna
Hey, it's Adam Grant from Ted's podcast Work Life, and this episode is brought to you by Service Now. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85% of the Fortune 500 companies use the ServiceNow AI platform, while other platforms duct tape tools together. ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows, and AI connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters most Most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people@servicenow.com we all love our pets, but we love to travel too, and sadly, they can't always come along for the ride. Don't stress.
- [44:21]
Advertiser
Trusted House Sitters connects you with verified sitters who will stay in your home and care for your pets, all in.
- [44:26]
Michael Joanna
Exchange for a place to stay on their travels.
- [44:29]
Advertiser
So while you're off exploring, your pets get to stay safe and happy at.
- [44:33]
Michael Joanna
Home home right where they belong. Find a loving in home pet sitter.
- [44:38]
Michael Wolfe
Today@Trustedhouse sitters.com.
- [44:44]
Michael Joanna
Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily Beast podcast@thedailybeast.com podcasts if you enjoyed this.
- [44:53]
Instacart Advertiser
Episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber.
- [44:56]
Michael Wolfe
Subscribing is the best way to feed.
- [44:58]
Michael Joanna
The Beast and support all of your.
- [45:00]
Michael Wolfe
Podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to thedailybeast.com membership podcast and sign up today.