The Daily Beast Podcast: "How Trump is Turning Kirk Tragedy into Power Grab"

Host: Joanna Coles
Guests: Hugh Docherty (Executive Editor, The Daily Beast), David Rothkopf (Former Clinton admin, ex-Editor, Foreign Policy)
Release Date: September 16, 2025

Overview

This episode delves into the political aftermath of right-wing commentator Charlie Kirk’s murder, focusing on how Donald Trump and his allies are attempting to leverage the tragedy to consolidate power and push an authoritarian agenda. The discussion covers chaos in law enforcement ranks, the use—and misuse—of information in the age of instant media, the rising profile of Republican Governor Spencer Cox, the upcoming Trump state visit to the UK, and a broader examination of violence and blame in American politics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Fallout over Charlie Kirk’s Murder

Timestamp: 01:58–11:59

• Law Enforcement in Turmoil:

  • New FBI Director Kash Patel is under fire for incompetence, lack of experience, and a self-promotional style that has alienated both agents within the FBI and the broader MAGA movement.
  • His televised “Save My Job” tour follows a botched social media post naming an innocent suspect, while dining at an exclusive NYC restaurant (Rao’s), far from the unfolding manhunt.

  “No one has really ever thought Kash Patel was up for this job. He has no experience in this area, really, to speak of. He was primarily seen as a provocateur and as a podcaster.” — David Rothkopf [09:11]

  • A failed promise of transparency (“live blogging” arrests instead of delivering facts) further damaged trust in the FBI.

  “We don't expect a live blog. We expect accurate facts.” — Hugh Docherty [07:02]

  • Tension and resentment are rampant after purges of agents associated with January 6th investigations.

• MAGA Intrigue:

  • Patel faces a whisper campaign led by allies of Attorney General Pam Bondi (believed to have “never actually… had confidence in him”) and the looming presence of Andrew Bailey, a replacement option amenable to Trump loyalists.

  “He’s really trying to own the idea that the arrest was down to his actions. MAGA people who are not getting behind this say, well, it was just luck he got the, you know, the father turned in the suspect. And that’s not brilliant police work.” — Hugh Docherty [11:59]

2. Transparency, Trust, and Authoritarian Reactions

Timestamp: 16:15–20:17

• Transparency vs. Accuracy:

  • Patel’s defense of public “transparency” is challenged: law enforcement must preserve trust by being accurate above all, particularly after historical disgrace (e.g., J. Edgar Hoover era).

  “Transparency is a great thing. The other answer is that the FBI are the premier law enforcement organization maybe in the world... because you trust them.” — Hugh Docherty [16:32]

  • “Transparency” is attacked as a fig leaf if statements are untrue.

  “It’s not transparency if what you’re saying is a lie.” — David Rothkopf [17:58]

• Power Grab Allegations:

  • Trump and close allies (notably Stephen Miller and J.D. Vance) are accused of using Kirk’s death as a pretext to increase executive power and target political enemies—a playbook compared to historical authoritarian overreaches.

  “The real story this week is not mourning Charlie Kirk, it’s how is this administration going to use the death of Charlie Kirk as an excuse to overreach, to target their enemies, to gain more and more executive powers.” — David Rothkopf [19:35]

3. Governor Spencer Cox’s National Emergence

Timestamp: 20:17–26:07

• A New Face on the National Stage:

  • Utah’s Governor Spencer Cox is lauded for his measured response at the press conference, prioritizing unity over political posturing.

  “He was masterful in the way that he took over from Kash Patel at the press conference… We must get together and talk about this. And it felt very reassuring.” — Joanna Coles [20:17]

  • Decades-long Republican roots, but nuanced positions on LGBTQ issues, abortion, and social media; considered a potential new model for the GOP’s future.
  • Amusing personal trivia: Cox is related to an Osmond brother.

• Cautious Optimism and Media Critique:

  • Rothkopf is skeptical about the media’s embrace of Cox, warning that Trump’s camp would quickly stifle competition. He notes that the Kirk funeral/MAGA rally in Arizona will likely dominate the coming news cycle.

  “If other people in the media agree with you, Trump will put the kibosh on him. They'll bury this guy because they won’t want the competition…” — David Rothkopf [26:38]

4. The Politicization of Tragedy & Online Rage

Timestamp: 28:28–34:05

• Funeral as MAGA Rally:

  • The upcoming Kirk memorial/funeral is described as a “world’s first funeral slash MAGA rally,” illustrating the fusion of political spectacle with personal tragedy.

  “You’re going to end up with the world's first funeral slash MAGA rally. And it’s gotta be pretty hideous.” — David Rothkopf [27:56]

• Social Media Backlash:

  • Anger is flaring online, with MAGA supporters targeting those not mourning Kirk. Cancel culture tactics are weaponized by the right against critics or those promoting less sympathetic responses.

  “On social media, there’s a whole lot of anger… and the danger here is much, much wider than that.” — Hugh Docherty [29:12]

• Distorted Narratives:

  • Attempts to pin political violence on the left are debunked; studies and recent events show a clear trend of right-wing violence.

  “The reality is that every major study that's been done… show that most of the violence... comes from the far right.” — David Rothkopf [30:47]

  • Recent left-of-center firings (over merely quoting Kirk) are cited as evidence of a chilling intolerance.

5. America’s Violence Crisis: Mental Health, Not Just Politics

Timestamp: 34:05–36:32

• Beyond Ideology:

  • Analysis pivots to the deep structural issues of violence—mental health, gun access, alienation—rather than the simplistic left-versus-right narrative.

  “America's gun violence problem doesn't have to do with political violence. It has to do with primarily young men who have access to guns and who don't have access to mental health care… alienated from their society.” — David Rothkopf [34:40]

6. Trump’s London State Visit: Power, Prestige, and Parody

Timestamp: 37:45–51:22

• Theatrical Spectacle:

  • Trump’s state visit with King Charles is expected to be a pageant—gilded rooms, parades, Melania meeting Princess Kate—a playground for Trump’s love of spectacle and status.

  “He's going to be absolutely in love with the spectacle. He loves the spectacle. And if anybody’s got more gold than than he does, it is, of course, the British royal family.” — Hugh Docherty [38:18]

  • Coles and Docherty muse humorously on Trump’s etiquette, Charles’s gardening, bruised hands, and the quirks of royal protocol.
  • Deep undercurrent: Trump’s affinity for collecting the trappings of office, and his attempt to turn power into personal mythology.

  “The whole idea of the ballroom is so the 900 people celebrate him. And what could be… where do you learn how to treat ridiculous people ridiculously? But in England worshiping royal family, which is a vestige of this kind of idiocy that should long ago have disappeared…” — David Rothkopf [43:14]

• Epstein Subtext:

  • Lingering controversies in both US and UK political circles relate to Jeffrey Epstein, complicating the optics and logistics of the visit.

  “The real story here, which is the Epstein subtext—with Prince Andrew and with Mandelson and with Trump and with the whole royal, you know, all the turmoil in the royal family around Prince Andrew…” — David Rothkopf [45:41]

7. Themes of Power, Aging, and Change

Timestamp: 47:23–51:45

• Old Guard vs. New Faces:

  • The episode closes with reflections on the aging leadership of Trump and Charles versus the symbolic presence of Melania and Kate, hinting at generational transition pressures in both nations.

  “Two old white guys, indeed...But there will be a completely different perspective on this because we will also see two much younger and incredibly famous women hanging out together...” — Hugh Docherty [47:47]

Memorable Quotes

• On Law Enforcement Dysfunction:

  • “He has no experience in this area, really, to speak of. He was primarily seen as a provocateur and as a podcaster.”
    — David Rothkopf [09:11]

• On Faux Transparency:

  • “It’s not transparency if what you’re saying is a lie.”
    — David Rothkopf [17:58]

• On Authoritarian Impulses:

  • “What you really see here is that there is a move... not to solve the crime, not to be transparent, but actually to use the crime as a justification for their authoritarian power grab.”
    — David Rothkopf [19:35]

• On the Meaning of the Kirk Funeral:

  • “You’re going to end up with the world’s first funeral slash MAGA rally.”
    — David Rothkopf [27:56]

• On Political Violence:

  • “The reality is that every major study... show that most of the violence... comes from the far right.”
    — David Rothkopf [30:47]

• On National Leaders:

  • “Two old white guys, indeed. Both with… well, certainly the president has a lot of power. The king technically doesn't have a lot of power, thanks to hundreds of years of history.”
    — Hugh Docherty [47:47]

Notable Moments and Humor

• On Trump and Etiquette:

  • “He actually managed to walk in front of (the Queen), which is something you do not do…” — Hugh Docherty [38:18]
  • “There was a recent story that 11 out of 12 of his (Charles’) gardeners had felt that he wasn’t treating them as well as perhaps he could have done.” — Joanna Coles [39:59]

• On Royal Family Flexibility:

  • “If you need to divorce your wife, you set up your own church. Henry VIII… If you need to get rid of a problematic king, then you invent the idea of abdication and send him off to France with his American wife.” — Hugh Docherty [49:34]

Summary

This episode paints a vivid picture of a country at a crossroads—where politics, personal ambition, and media spectacle intersect. The murder of Charlie Kirk is not just a tragedy but a pivot point, as Trump and allies manipulate events to fortify their agenda, while basic institutions like the FBI are wracked with scandal and distrust. New political figures like Governor Cox may signal the possibility of change, but are ultimately constrained by a volatile, narrative-driven landscape. The episode rounds out with a sharply satirical lens on Trump’s upcoming exploits abroad, leaving listeners with both a deep sense of unease about the current moment and a bemused observation on the rituals of power.

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