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If we're suddenly in a political moment, of which a more complicated, naughty, draggy political moment, the stimulation is going to go down. And I'm not sure that he knows what to do with that, except his head droops and then lists to the side because he is fundamentally bored. The whole flattery sycophant thing is he wants it, he needs it, he demands it. And then it starts to irritate him and again irritate him because he's not getting enough of it and irritating it because now he sees through it. So Pete becomes an ass lick.
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C
Michael.
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A
Joanna. And you are in.
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C
I'm in Los Angeles. And you cannot believe how I have construed my podcast studio to talk to you today. My computer is balanced precariously, I will say so. If I suddenly go this way, you'll know why. On the trash can, because I was trying to improvise in the room to create stud and reasonably flattering lighting. Because last time we did this, you said that it was a disaster. So I got up incredibly early to build a studio around myself.
- [03:23]
A
Possibly too much information.
- [03:26]
C
All right, well, at least I'm not falling asleep like the President did yesterday in his cabinet meeting. We have a lot to get through. We've got to get through Hegseth. We need to get through. What on earth is happening in Russia with your friends Steve Witkoff and the President's son in law, Jared Kushner. We need to know what's happening with Olivia Nuzzi's book release which came out this week. Where should we begin? Should we begin with the President dozing?
- [03:53]
A
Well, yeah. No, because I have a sort of. I have a perspective, an inside the White House perspective on this. And it was, I mean, I think everybody else is reporting this as another, another age related symptoms, which it certainly well may well be. The man is 79, overweight. We can go on and on, but within the White House, there was something actually to them more worrisome, which is, is the President bored?
- [04:27]
C
How can he be bored? How can he be bored? There's so much going on.
- [04:30]
A
Well, I will tell you because let's remember, the President exists on two things.
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Without which there is, in fact, no Donald Trump. Flattery and fury.
- [04:45]
C
Flattery and fury, Yep.
- [04:47]
A
The problem with flattery is that all these people gathered around to flatter him. They, they can't. They, they have already delivered the maximum. The maximum groveling. And so if you deliver the same level of flattering, no matter how lavish, and groveling, and if you can't up the ante, then he gets bored. I mean, it's kind of like drugs, right?
- [05:15]
C
Your tolerance level builds.
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A
Exactly.
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C
So now he would need them to be naked and prostrating themselves and perhaps bringing him grapes to keep him interested.
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A
Totally. In the last couple of weeks he's been on the phone and that's always a tell with Trump on the phone and asking questions, the questions of which imply an answ.
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So, you know, and they've questions like, is Pete an Aslik? Is Pam a suck up? Is little?
- [05:50]
C
Is Pete an Aslik? This is something he's actually been asking. Someone told you that they heard him say this?
- [05:58]
A
Absolutely. And this would be completely in character. You know, the whole flattery sycophant thing is he wants it, he needs it, he demands it, and then it starts to irritate him and again, irritate him because he's not getting enough of it and irritating it because now he sees through it. So Pete becomes an ass lick. Pam becomes a suck up. And, and, and little Marco. He's asking, is he just saying what I want to hear? Patently he is. But.
- [06:35]
But, but this is all evidence of an indication of Trump's, you know, disgr with the people around him, which always comes to this.
- [06:45]
C
And this is because they are incompetent.
- [06:47]
A
Because Pam Bondi, you know, they are clearly incompetent. But, but that's another problem because he clearly, it's not as if he wants competent people. I mean, he wants people who are going to lavish this kind of, of, of just abject flattery on him. But then the problem with this abject flattery is that it breaches its limits and needs more.
- [07:14]
C
Such an interesting take on things and it makes total sense. And it also reminds one of the, the emperors of yore and the kings of yore who are simply bored and demand an execution or something to keep them interested. And each time their level has to go up because their senses are dulled.
- [07:32]
A
By it all, you know, completely. And then there was, and then there is the fury thing too. You know, he needs an enemy. He needs somebody to, you know, to, he needs to wage a pitiless attack, something. And he did that on Somalia. But so the word from the people in the room is everybody kind of went, when he went on this, this, this rant, it was like Somalia, really.
- [07:58]
C
Right.
- [07:59]
A
We're at Somalia now. It's come to this. And, and I think there's that again. That's that thing, you know, and it may be, you know, he has run. This has been, you know, as I've, as we've discussed before, the most remarkable year in the history of the American presidency. And certainly we can argue it's the most destructive year, but it is just remarkable. I mean, what he has the attention of the public that he has been able to hold this ability to do things that no one else would do, with no one else getting in his way. Just a kind of storm trooping through the political landscape. But which is clearly now with the election, with Epstein, with all of the things that we have been talking about coming to a different kind of pace and quite possibly to a kind of grinding slog which most presidencies come to. And I think that's.
- [09:13]
I'm not sure he can deal with that well.
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C
And I'm sure it's exacerbated by him. Older now, too. So in his first presidency, as you know, he was still trying to sort of understand the impact of the deep state who was trying to stop him doing things. Now he's got carte blanche. He's bulldozed everybody. But the fact he looks exhausted, clearly, physically, he's not great. He told us that he'd had an mri, but then he couldn't remember what it was for, what body part it was for. He seems increasingly erratic. His sudden remark about affordability. Oh, this is a Democrat thing. It's a fake thing. It doesn't mean anything. After he just had his cuddle puddle with mum Dani about affordability just sort of makes even less sense than normal.
- [10:04]
A
Again, people make the mistake of thinking of Trump as other presidents, that somehow he has his eye on the arc of history. Somehow he sees how agenda is playing out or not playing out. And I want to again try to correct that, that Trump is a man who lives in the moment. It is about his stimulation now.
- [10:29]
C
Right. Okay.
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A
And if that fails him, I think everything starts to fail him. And if we're suddenly in a political moment of which a more complicated, naughty, draggy political moment, the stimulation is going to go down.
- [10:50]
And I'm not sure that he knows what to do with that, except, you know, his head droops and he falls and then lists to the side because he is fundamentally bored. Not only just old, which is something. Yes. I mean, I think that is certainly worth keeping tabs on, but this other thing about being bored, it becomes kind of existential in its way. I'm not getting the stimulation that I require. So, I mean, I think this is this.
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I just want to put a pin in that to think about if going forward, we have Donald Trump, who is not quite Donald Trump.
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Who doesn't have. Who is not sustained by the flattery and the fury that he. That he needs, who is, you know, kind of not present.
- [11:50]
C
Well, also, Donald Trump bored as things get complicated. So the Russia situation is complicated. And of course, he's now trying to figure out what to do with Pete Hegseth. And is there anything more likely to send a shudder of despair through one than Pete Hegseth saying publicly, we have your back. Obviously, I'm talking about Admiral Bradley, who was in charge of operations in Venezuela and who now must just be rolling his eyes at the idea that Pete Hagseth is saying he didn't even stay in the room to witness the end of the operation. This is a man who parades around with all his American doll Accessories, his pocket square, his stars and stripes that he wears absolutely everywhere. And yet as defense of war, he cannot be bothered to stay in the room long enough to check the end of a very short operation.
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A
Well, yeah, I mean, I suspect that's actually not true. I mean, I suspect that there is, that this is. Pete Hags is pedaling as fast as he can on this. So. And what is the excuse for picking off these poor men who are clinging to boat wreckage? Well, I wasn't there. I didn't see it. The fog of war.
- [13:07]
C
The fog of war. We're not at war. We are not at war totally.
- [13:11]
A
But I think that, you know, I mean, I think the gut thing, what seems more, more likely than not is that he did this, he enjoyed these men being picked off and now is lying about it.
- [13:24]
C
Michael, can we back up a minute here? Because this story first appeared in the Washington Post, which I don't want to over prop them here, but people had sort of written off the Washington Post because Jeff Bezos had dismantled the opinion pages and said they should stick to ideas about the free market. And we know he's been, you know, he was front and center at the inauguration and the Washington Post appeared to have been somewhat defenestrated. Is that of any significance here?
- [13:52]
A
You know, it's probably not significant to the Washington Post. The Washington Post is a, you know, has become something else. But sometimes these stories are, are too good not to tell. And, and, and Pete Hegseth. Hegseth picking off the, the Venezuelans hanging to the boat debris. Even for Jeff Bezos.
- [14:19]
C
You know, one wonders if Jeff Bezos knew anything about it.
- [14:24]
A
I'm sure he didn't. But within the newspaper, within the paper, they thought, okay, this story, we're not going to get in too much trouble from Jeff Bezos because of this story. It's just too irresistible. But I think beyond that, yes, there might be, there might be a sense that everyone, everybody who has been abject in trying to curry favor with, with, with Donald Trump feels they have to do less of that at this moment, that there is a turn, you know, and again, election. Epstein, we can, the economy, we can make, we can make the list.
- [15:06]
I mean, I mean, there was a, there was a piece today which I think was in the Times looking forward to the midterms. And, and right now, and of course we're still a year out, but right now the view is catastrophic for the Republicans. So, yes, I mean, I, you know, I think, I mean, in.
- [15:30]
In even in Donald Trump's autocratic America, things can go south very quickly and, and they.
- [15:39]
C
Might be well and, and Republican senators are coming out now expressing extreme concern over Pete he excess behavior. And there is something ironic about Trump obviously choosing him. And let's not forget he was a co host on a Saturday morning show on Fox News, having run to veteran agencies basically into the ground, having had all sorts of issues with alcohol, having had all sorts of issues with women and him only being confirmed by J.D. vance. It was J.D. vance vote that got Pete Hegseth the confirmation of course.
- [16:22]
A
And it's not just, you know, I mean there is this thing. So everybody, the.
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Senate Republicans approved virtually all of Trump's cabinet choices at this full well knowing that in almost, in the bulk of the instances, certainly the high profile ones, they were approving completely incompetent people, people who had no experience, people who had achieved nothing in basically in their lives, mediocrities at best failures. Pete Hegseth with the Weekend Co host RFK Jr what has he been doing for the past 50 years of his career? Effectively not.
- [17:15]
You know, Pam Bondi, you know, a, you know, a hack lawyer in Florida. I mean you can go down the list here. Nobody is distinguished or distinguished only by their lack of distinction which everybody, every Republican was fully aware that these were morons, but they were Donald Trump's morons. So it was like, okay, let them, you know.
- [17:43]
You know, it's Donald Trump's world, we don't have an alternative here. But that doesn't change the fact that they are morons.
- [17:52]
And that every Senate Republican Senator knows they're morons. So when it becomes the moment the, you know, the, the, you know, the emperor's no close moment, they are not then at that moment going to continue to defend them.
- [18:08]
C
Well and what's also noticeable about both RFK Jr. And Pete Hegseth is when they were going through the confirmation process, both of them had members of their family. I mean Pete Hegseth's mother had written a letter to him which got leaked I think from one of his former sister in laws saying you are an abuser of women. I mean it was a letter no mother would ever want to write to her son and no son would ever want to receive. And of, of course it got leaked and she had to apologize, but it was a devastating letter. And then similarly with rfk, the video of Caroline Kennedy coming out and saying this man is a dark man, he's got his cousins addicted to drugs entirely.
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A
But we don't even have to go there. All of that is Just piled on.
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And the fact.
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That these guys were confirmed by the Senate with that.
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Creates this strange moment.
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In which when everything comes apart, everybody, every senator who confirmed them has to actually go in the opposite direction. And that's what we're going to start to see now, because in each instance, we have an example of somebody who abjectly does not know what they are doing.
- [19:35]
C
Right. And I think what you can see with Pete Hegseth, too, is the panic that he might be the first to be fired. Fired by Trump, the first cabinet minister to be fired. Because do you remember that Matt Gaetz, who was up for Attorney general, didn't get the nomination. They got rid of him very early on, but then everybody else pretty much got railroaded through. So what we're waiting for now is the first. The first firing. And you can see Hegseth must be sitting around that cabinet table thinking, oh, my God, it might be me. It might be me. Which is why he's flamming like an old actress at this point.
- [20:14]
A
As I've said and just cautioned often, this kind of opprobrium heaped on Trump's appointments creates a defense for them he doesn't want to do. He will resist doing what anyone is trying to force him to do.
- [20:36]
So it is actually a more powerful indictment of them that they are failing to deliver to him what he needs, the flattery in this. In this instance. I mean, if he gets bored with them, then they're gonna go.
- [20:56]
And that's a stronger motivation than. Than someone saying that they're criminals and war criminals and. And corrupt.
- [21:06]
C
And you've got Donald Trump himself also backing away from Hegset because you've got him saying on the plane on Sunday, well, I didn't know anything about it. I mean, his first thing.
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A
I'm just a wor.
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C
No, no, no, I. I hear you when you say, oh, he always doubles down. He's stubborn. He's not going to be told by the press what to do. But I thought it was notable that he was backing off and saying, well, I wouldn't have done it twice.
- [21:29]
A
I wouldn't have done it twice in the incompetence department. I'd like to move to Russia at the moment because I think it's. I think it's important. I mean, I think it's extraordinary what. What's happening there, because, I mean, you have these two people wholly.
- [21:52]
Who are essentially negotiating the fate of the Western world. Now, if anyone said to anybody in New York not that long ago that.
- [22:07]
Steve Witkoff was negotiating the fate of the Western world, people would be, I, I, they wouldn't even know how to react.
- [22:18]
C
Well, they'd say, Michael Wolf has lost his marbles. He, he, he used to be a great writer, but now he's lost it.
- [22:24]
A
But there Steve Witkoff is with Jared Kushner, somewhat more competent, but wholly focused on his own benefit, in advantage. So you, you have an incompetent and a grifter now in Moscow trying to.
- [22:43]
Sell out Ukraine. But the more interesting thing perhaps, is the fact that they can't even do this. They can't sell out Ukraine, try as they might, and they've done nothing but try to do this, to give Russia whatever they want. But because these guys are fundamentally unsuited to the job, unsuited to.
- [23:07]
The intricacies of, of diplomatic solutions, they can't do it. They can't give Ukraine to Russia, which they've been trying, trying to do, because they have a world in opposition to them, thank God. But, but that is where this, this chapter in this now, in this rather long running saga of trying to give away Ukraine where, where we are, they are now with Putin. Putin is telling them, forget it. You know, I'm not going to take these compromises. You have to give me Ukraine. And then it's not at all unlikely they'll come out of this with some deal to give Putin Ukraine and that will fall apart immediately thereafter.
- [23:56]
C
So, Michael, we've been inside Trump's head and you say he's bored. What is going on inside Putin's head? Is he having fun here? Is he enjoying his sort of cat and mouse game?
- [24:07]
A
That's above my pay grade. Putin is, I mean, Jesus.
- [24:13]
C
But they had a five hour meeting yesterday.
- [24:16]
A
One of the conundrums of the world at this point. What is going on in Putin said, what is going on in Trump's head is remarkably transparent. What is going on in Putin's head may be as transparent, which is.
- [24:34]
He is hell Ben on the restoration of, of, of imperial, of an, of an imperial Russian design. I don't know. Or, or maybe he's just held Ben on amassing vast sums of money. I, I have no idea. That, that seems, that seems impenetrable what, what Putin wants, why he would send what may go up into the, into the millions of Russians to their death in Ukraine.
- [25:12]
I think there must be some psychopathic element here, I don't know. So I'm going to give up on this one.
- [25:21]
C
Well, it makes the history teachers or the history professors and all the diplomatic Experts that the Trump administration has poured scorn on look slightly less incompetent now as we see them coming out of the a five hour meeting looking thoroughly exhausted with not very much to show for it.
- [25:38]
A
Yeah, well, you just have to say Steve Witkoff.
- [25:43]
C
Okay, Michael, Michael, be quiet. We're going to take a break. For our advertisers.
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This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas.
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With Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
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A
Hey, Bowen. It's gift season.
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C
Ugh.
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Guides that are totally uninspired.
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- [29:10]
A
And we are back. I mean, how did Steve Witkoff get in this position? This is what do you do? What is your credential here? What is his singular credential is as only as a golf buddy.
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C
But that's how Ilana Harbour was picked, because as you said in your book, which she complained about but then confirmed she met Trump because she was at Bedminster lying around the pool in a bikini.
- [29:39]
A
Every Trump pick is essentially a circumstantial pick. Do you intersect with him in a way that.
- [29:49]
That allows you to demonstrate your ability to flatter him? There's nothing else going on here besides that. That's what you do. That's the qualification. That's the interview. How do you flatter me? At what level?
- [30:06]
C
And then by the time you've fully flattered him, he gets bored and he's off with his head and onto the next. So, Michael, when you texted me this morning, you had a very good description for what you thought the government of Trump should be called.
- [30:21]
A
Yeah, I mean, it is a moronocracy. I mean, that is, it is literally, let's just go, let's staff. And that becomes a kind of the credential. Are you moron enough to work in Donald Trump's government? And we can go down the list from Haig Smith to Cash Patel to Pam Bondi to.
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Kristi Noem to RFK to.
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Alina Haba, Lindsey Halligan. These are subpar people, not only in their jobs, but in any profession that they might have that they might work.
- [31:06]
C
In a more on ocracy. It's sort of tragic and it would be funny if it weren't tragic. And you also sent me a piece by George Will from the Washington Post saying the Killing of the survivors by this moral slum of an administration should nauseate Americans, which I thought was a good line, too. A moral slum.
- [31:28]
A
And George Will doesn't usually deliver a good line. So.
- [31:32]
C
So even he's been inspired.
- [31:34]
A
Yes, let's take note of this. But, but, you know, George Will is a, you know, who works for the Washington Post.
- [31:45]
I mean, that's. That ought to be a signal that, that the tolerance of the Republican bulwark is.
- [31:57]
Coming apart, I think.
- [31:59]
C
Yeah, it's fraying. And we talked about the Kash Patel story and this leaked report saying that there was a lot of internal, well, concern is putting it mildly, about Kash Patel. We missed one particular detail which I saw taking off online, which was this idea that when he flew to Utah after the killing of Charlie Kirk, he refused to get off the plane until he had the correct FBI jacket and he wanted various badges on it that other people had to cut off their jackets and put on his. So he wasn't bothered about getting to the scene of the crime on time. He was bothered about the optics, I'm sure, for social media. And there was a lot of feeling within the FBI that him and Dan Bongino, his number two, were spending a lot of time on social media and not enough actually doing the job, which surprises no one and is simply two more people to add to the moronocracy.
- [32:58]
A
Yeah, no, these are patently unsafe, serious people.
- [33:04]
But I know a little about the preparations of all politicians for when they exit the plane.
- [33:14]
And that's a.
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No one seems dignified at that moment.
- [33:22]
C
Well, I noticed another strange comment by someone regarding Donald Trump. They were talking about Donald Trump's age and the fact that he still takes the steps at the front of Air Force One and walks up them. And then they said, but you don't know what he does when he gets onto the plane. And I thought, well, what can he do? What does that mean? Does that mean he just lies down? Does it mean he's completely out of breath? Do you have any indication what that means?
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A
I have not. I don't know. I mean, I've seen Donald Trump come on to.
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To his plane, not to Air Force One. And.
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He seems fine. He seems strutting about. He seems like Donald Trump.
- [34:04]
C
All right, so we mentioned RFK Jr who's been in the news again this week following the publication of American Canto, the somewhat grandiosely named memoir of Olivia Nuzzi, a former writer at the Daily Business who is someone, you know, I have only met her once and I will confess we tried to hire her when I got to the Daily Beast because I loved her writing nutsy or nuzzy or, or newsy, as Keith Olbermann said, because he was involved with her. Do you want to explain what this story is? Because you wrote a passionate substack about it this week.
- [34:43]
A
Passionate? You think it was passionate?
- [34:45]
C
Well, it seemed passionate. It seemed passionate about her energized writing.
- [34:50]
A
You know, I, I, I mean, I, I just, I being pilloried by every.
- [34:58]
By the whole set of journalistic bishops, if you will, which I, I find somewhat hypocritical. But, you know, but, but more to the point, I mean, I mean, the life that this, that this woman has le. Led is kind of extraordinary and on the, that the edge of adventure and self destructiveness, I, I would say, but, but I think she's a good writer. I mean, you know, I think, I think the Trump, the Trump years have not produced a lot of good writing. And I think for a lot of, for a lot of reasons, liberal writers.
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Don'T like to, at best, they condescend to writing about Trump. Nobody has, or very few people.
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Have kind of access and proximity.
- [35:58]
And they don't get the Trump thing. They see Trump in political terms rather than in Trumpian terms. But anyway, I think she wrote for New York magazine on a kind of sporadic basis and.
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And every time she did.
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Seemed original, it seemed to offer something that nobody else was offering. But then she went on to have an affair. And I use the word.
- [36:31]
In some kind of air quotes because it's unclear actually what the nature and the level of intimacy was between them, except for some erotic poetry for, from, from RFK.
- [36:48]
Jr. Worth getting a hold of that. I think we've read it here. Did you read it?
- [36:54]
C
I think actually I read it with Kurt Anderson. I think you might have missed that episode. Michael. We could do a reprise. We could do a reprise. Except the poetry itself isn't really worth it. I think there might have been some naked photos too, as always. Well, no, not as always. Not as always.
- [37:12]
A
I don't know. I find it hard to. Has there been a sex scandal in recent years in which there were not naked Internet photos? I don't know.
- [37:23]
C
Jeff Bezos himself had an Internet scandal a picture of. He was clearly enjoying sending some naked photos because that's how the whole thing came out, right? That the American, the National Enquirer had photos of him.
- [37:39]
A
My point in this substack column that I wrote is that she's a extremely good writer. And the fact that she went on to have whatever she did with RFK Jr. And then her previous boyfriend, who got jilted in all of this, has now struck back and revealed other affairs that she has had. And.
- [38:07]
I'm like, the measure here is what you write.
- [38:13]
If you have an affair with RFK Jr. Or whoever you have, and then if you write about him, you either produce a piece of bad writing or you produce a piece of good writing.
- [38:29]
And the measure here should not be the. The relationship, the nature of the relationship you've had. It should be what you've written.
- [38:38]
C
There was an observation by Keith Oberman, who was someone that Olivia had also lived with for a period of time, that perhaps the actual hero in all this was the editor at New York magazine who'd edited her stories over the year. Cause it turns out that she.
- [38:55]
A
I would interrupt to say a. That's bullshit, because Keith Olbermann has no idea what goes on at New York magazine.
- [39:06]
And I, who have written as many words for New York magazine as I believe anyone has, you know, I mean, sometimes there's. There's editorial support, sometimes not much. So I. I don't know.
- [39:22]
C
All I can say, because I have some insight into that is when I joined New York magazine after we had met and you had in. Said to me, you need to come and work for New York Magazine, there was always. There was always a frisson in the office when your column arrived. Your copy was to be dealt with completely differently to the way anybody else's copy was dealt with. It was, oh, God, Michael Wolf's column has dropped. And there would be kind of heads buzzing. Everybody would be reading it. The lawyer would be summoned. It was drama. Every week, it was a drama. When you. Your story arrived, I think you're.
- [39:59]
A
You're making that up.
- [40:00]
C
I'm not making it up. I'm not making it up. I worked in the room next to the guy.
- [40:06]
A
That guy next to you was there for a brief period. He was an editor on my book who I hired, and then I fired.
- [40:13]
C
But all I can say, it was enormous drama when your copy dropped, because it was like handling a kind of the Ming vase that arrived every week in a gallery that could. Could not be dropped, and people had to be very careful with it. And, Michael, quick toss to our sponsors.
- [40:33]
A
This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas.
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With Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Hey, Bowen, it's gift season.
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Ugh.
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Stressing me out. Why are the people I love so hard to shop for, probably because they.
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Only make boring gift guides that are totally uninspired.
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Or Best Gifts for me that were.
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A
So thoughtful I really shouldn't have.
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B
Check out the guide on marshalls.com and gift the good stuff at Marshalls. Hey, it's Adam Grant from Ted's podcast Work Life, and this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow.
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C
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- [43:31]
A
And we are back inside Trump's head.
- [43:34]
C
But Olivia Newsy Nutsy whatever could not have had a better rollout for her book in many ways. I mean, everyone, certainly in the media has been talking about it. She got an extraordinary piece in the New York Times.
- [43:47]
A
I, I don't know, and I don't know how this, I mean, maybe this will redound to her benefit. I mean, I think it's. I think it's, you know, I mean, she's a young woman. This is a pretty difficult kind of thing to endure the opprobrium of the journalistic community.
- [44:07]
But I mean, I don't know. I mean, I hope. I mean, I think she's going to be fired from. She was fired from New York Magazine. She was fired from. She is going to be fired from her new job at Vanity Fair. And I just at. Looked, let me point out, actually, these magazines need her more than she needs them. I mean, in both cases, both in, in New York magazine, a stable of, you know, largely unknown and undistinguished writers, except for her. And in Vanity Fair's case, you know, all the writers, the writers of your in Vanity Fair departed long ago and now it's another faceless bunch in which they hired, not that long ago, Olivia Nudzi to.
- [45:01]
Be.
- [45:03]
A distinctive writer, a writer with a voice, a writer with.
- [45:08]
C
A reputation, with a point of view. With a point of view.
- [45:11]
A
And now they will be forced to sacrifice her as New York Magazine was forced to sacrifice her because of the.
- [45:21]
You know, the ruffled feathers of the journalism community and the ruffled feathers of lesser writers.
- [45:29]
C
Well, and, you know, something about the ruffled feathers. You've been through that, too, a lot of feathers.
- [45:35]
A
Yes, and it is a thing. And it is, you know, and I mean, my situation is. I mean, it's different, but it has a, it, it has, it intersects at some, at some point there are people who are, there are writers who are concerned with writing and then, and then there are. There are a journalist or, you know, editorial bureaucrats who are, who are in, in. Involved in the essential.
- [46:08]
In the essential protection of the journalism organizations they work for, which are all in some form of distress and extremis. So everybody rushes to protect them, to protect themselves, to protect their reputation, to do what the lawyers tell them to do. I mean, it's a terrible time.
- [46:33]
To be a journalist and for journalism. But, you know, Olivia Nutzi, Nazi.
- [46:43]
Has on, you know, many occasions now produce, distinguish.
- [46:51]
Distinguished pieces of writing. And hell, that's. I hope she produces much more.
- [46:59]
C
Well, I wonder if Ryan Murphy will simply buy up her story at this point because it's, I mean, I think the difference for you too, is that you've got a ton of books under your belt. So when you ruffle feathers, it has. Has a different impact. This is her first book.
- [47:16]
A
I am old and she is not, so who knows? That's.
- [47:22]
You know, we'll. We'll see. I mean, I. I would.
- [47:27]
I'd sacrifice all the books to be that young again.
- [47:31]
C
Would you, though? Would you?
- [47:33]
A
I don't think probably I would.
- [47:35]
C
Oh, interesting. Interesting. Well, that in itself could be a book. The. The. The writer who gives up all his books to start again. Yeah, yeah. For you, that definitely feels like a fable. Also possibly something that Ryan Murphy could do. A sort of Dorian Gray inspired story.
- [47:58]
Well, Olivia's book was not doing as well as I'd expected, actually. I thought, goodness, with all this publicity, it must be number one on the bestseller list. It was somewhere like number 30, 13,000 on Amazon's list. And I think it was number four in journalistic memoirs. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas by our God Hunter S. Thompson was still number one. I don't know if it's been number one ever since he wrote it, but journalistic memoirs, there aren't that many of them. Anyway. She was number four in that. Because Amazon creates all sorts of different categories, so you can strive to be a bestseller in one of them. All right, Michael, before we go, we have some more questions for Melania.
- [48:40]
A
Bring them on, please.
- [48:45]
C
Okay, so this one is from Michael Cole, 7528. No relation to me, although my father is called Michael, so that's odd. But I have an S. Okay. From Michael Cole, 7528. Ask Melania. How did you get your first work visa? How many times did you renew it? Did you pay taxes? No other model has ever been given the Einstein exemption to become a citizen. I'm not quite sure how he would know that, because a lot of European and East European models came over at that point. How many roommates did you first live with? Name them? Were they models?
- [49:24]
A
No. And I think it's fundamentally a good question and a good.
- [49:31]
An area that remains mysterious and opaque.
- [49:41]
I mean, how does a person from an Eastern European model with an insignificant modeling career end up married to.
- [49:53]
A man who becomes the President of the United States?
- [49:55]
C
It's an incredible story. I mean, it's in what. In many ways it should be a hugely hopeful story that an immigrant can come to America and end up married to the President, because we know an immigrant can't become president, but she's got the next best thing, except that she's married to Donald Trump.
- [50:13]
A
Well, we suspect that there is. That this is. That we don't know the story. That's the.
- [50:19]
C
Well, we don't know the story. And that's the reason for your case.
- [50:24]
Okay, this is from Anna. Rex, how much time does Melania spend with Donald Trump and with Barron? What's her beauty regime? I would like to know her beauty regime. Where does she shop? Because you never see. I guess she has shops closed for her or people just bring stuff to wherever she's living. Trump Tower or the White House when she's there, because you never see little social media videos of her out shopping, which you do sometimes with celebs. And then finally, who are her friends?
- [50:57]
That would be interesting to know. Who does she hang out with if she's not hanging out with the president?
- [51:01]
A
First part of that question is the important question.
- [51:05]
C
How much time does she spend with Donald Trump and with Baron?
- [51:08]
A
Yeah, I mean, is this all fake? I think that's a reasonable thing for the American people to know.
- [51:14]
C
And then we've got a question here from someone called no way 7555. Ask Melania about her prenup. What are the details of the prenup? How much does she get for every year she stays married to him? That's also an interesting question.
- [51:33]
A
Yeah.
- [51:34]
C
So, okay, final question from Citric Ask Melania. Question is, coming from Slovenia, did you have a communist upbringing and or education? Were your parents members of the party? Did you ever go to Moscow for a training happening?
- [51:53]
A
Okay, yeah.
- [51:55]
C
Okay. Those are good questions. Very good questions. This case is building. Do we have any more details on it? When will you give us a bit more information about what's happening?
- [52:03]
A
Soon. I just have. I mean, a lot of people want to know what's. What's happening. And I've been explaining that.
- [52:14]
You know, the law, justice apparently moves very slowly. So. So I am learning about this as we all will learn about it. It really takes a long time, but I am pressuring. I'm on the phone with the lawyers every day saying what's happening, what's happening?
- [52:35]
C
Well, as long as you get it done while they're still in power. Although I'm sure they may want to deflect.
- [52:40]
A
I mean, that's the other thing about this, is that they are experts at.
- [52:44]
C
Delay, delay, delay, delay. All right, so any more questions for Melania as Michael fights?
- [52:52]
A
Send them my way, please. And I appreciate it. And they're good.
- [52:57]
C
Yeah, they are good. They are very good. People have really engaged on this.
- [53:00]
A
I think People want to know. I think this is one of those. Those, you know, those Donald Trump mysteries.
- [53:07]
C
The Donald Trump mystery.
- [53:11]
Okay. Well, there's no mystery to the fact that we will be at the 96 92nd Street Y on January 21st. Come and see us. There are still a few tickets, though. Happily. We've sold a lot of tickets for it, but 92nd Street Y, Michael and I will be there live. Happy to take your questions and be addressing the issues of the day. Well, let's hope it'll be a good evening.
- [53:33]
A
I know it will be.
- [53:34]
C
Okay, good, good. All right, if you have been, thank you for joining us. We are almost at 500,000 subscribers, so please, please, please, if you haven't subscribed, help us get to that mark. And then we're almost at the point where we get another plaque from YouTube. YouTube sends people plaques when you hit certain milestones. Half a million subscribers. Is each milestone a plaque? Well, how do you pronounce it? Plaque? You know, it's a little kind of plaque. Oh, a plaque. You say plaque. You say plaque, I say plaque. Anyway, we're almost there. So if you haven't subscribed, please, please subscribe and leave us a comment. Leave us a comment. Leave us your questions for Melania and your questions for what you're going to ask us at 92nd Street Y if you can come, which I hope you can, and then hopefully we'll be doing some more live events across the country. And I'm going to give a shout out to our BB Tier members. Sandra Clark, methinks Travels with Carl, Andrew Beaver, Capinator Harry Clark, Dawn McCarthy, Daniel dog lover M. Griner, Fulviola Herbie Andrew Mellor, Las Conde Bonzo, Val Love, Francisco Heidi Riley, Karen White, Connie Rutherford, Sharon Shipley, Bocock D.C. and Andrea Hodel.
- [54:49]
A
Thank you, Devin, Anna, Jesse, with all our greatest appreciation for the past and the future. Thank you.
- [55:04]
B
Hey, it's Adam Grant from ted's podcast Work Life, and this episode is brought to you by. ServiceNow. AI is only as powerful as the platform it's built into. That's why it's no surprise that more than 85% of the Fortune 500 companies use the ServiceNow AI platform, while other platforms duct tape tools together. ServiceNow seamlessly unifies people, data, workflows and AI connecting every corner of your business. And with AI agents working together autonomously, anyone in any department can focus on the work that matters Most. Learn how ServiceNow puts AI to work for people@servicenow.com.
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Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily beast podcast@thedailybeast.com.
- [56:54]
If you enjoyed this episode.
- [56:55]
C
Consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the Beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to thedailybeast.com membership podcast and sign up today.