The Daily Beast Podcast: "How Trump’s Insurrection Act Threat is Backfiring"

Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: Michael Wolff
Date: January 18, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode, hosted by Joanna Coles with guest Michael Wolff, delves into President Trump's threat to invoke the Insurrection Act following the shooting of Renee Nicole Goode by an ICE agent in Minneapolis. The conversation frames this moment as a critical test of American democracy, explores the administration’s strategy of escalation, examines the repercussions for institutions and political actors, and questions the absence of moral leadership from former presidents. The discussion is equal parts analysis, alarm, and irony, with a focus on the political, social, and economic fallout from Trump’s increasingly autocratic tactics.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Response to the Minneapolis Shooting

• Absolute Immunity & Escalation:
  Wolff and Coles discuss the Trump administration's doubling down after ICE agent Jonathan Ross shot Renee Nicole Goode, emphasizing the refusal to acknowledge wrongdoing and the unprecedented granting of "absolute immunity" to ICE agents.

  • "The video is so strong that I think it sort of jumps over their doubling down. I mean, people are genuinely horrified by this..." (Host, 05:46)
  • "This terrible thing has happened. A woman lost her life in at best, highly ambiguous circumstances. But there is no acknowledgment ... that they ought to have done anything differently." (Wolff, 03:01)

• Conflict as Strategy:
  Wolff explains that the Trump camp sees conflict as beneficial, even if the country is outraged:

  • "Conflict itself amped up, becomes their weapon. And this is where we are now." (Wolff, 06:36)

2. Threatened Use of the Insurrection Act

• Rhetoric vs. Reality:
  Wolff doubts that Trump’s threats reflect actual policy intentions, seeing them primarily as tools for dominating the news cycle and distracting from other scandals (e.g., Epstein):
  • "From his point of view, it's just about conflict and the drama and what that gets him." (Wolff, 11:44)
  • "Let's have the headlines about the Insurrection act rather than about this poor woman." (Wolff, 02:17; repeated, 13:11)
• Occupation of a US City:
  The hosts express alarm at the prospect of a US city, Minneapolis, becoming "occupied" by federal forces:
  • "We're essentially going to take over Minneapolis... It is going to become an occupied city." (Wolff, 10:28)
  • "Moving the army into an American city..." (Coles, 16:17)

3. Fallout for Minneapolis and Corporations

• Corporate Backchanneling/Limited Leverage:
  The hosts discuss the pressure on Minneapolis-based corporations and speculate on CEOs' possible efforts to urge de-escalation, but Wolff expresses skepticism about their influence:
  • "Back channel conversations. I don't think it matters... They want to own this." (Wolff, 09:24)
• Image of Minneapolis:
  Coles notes the city’s reputation as wholesome and home to major corporations, highlighting the disruption caused by federal intervention:
  • "Per capita it has a very high percentage of headquarters of big American companies. This isn't good for them either." (Host, 08:17)

4. Democratic (Non-)Response and Moral Leadership Vacuum

• Democratic Disarray:
  The Democratic response is characterized as disorganized and weak, with key figures absent from the fight:
  • "The Democratic response for so long has been incredibly weak, not focused..." (Wolff, 15:27)
• Where is Barack Obama?:
  Both hosts repeatedly wonder aloud why Obama, or Michelle Obama, has not stepped in to help organize a coherent opposition:
  • "Where the fuck is Barack Obama?" (Wolff, 16:21)
  • "I'm sure he's thinking that past presidents are supposed to stay out of the way..." (Coles, 18:06)
• Potential Impact of Obama & Bush:
  Wolff argues that only Obama and Bush have the moral authority to galvanize significant resistance, but both are absent:
  • "Were Barack Obama to step forward and take a leadership position... that would move Democrats, and it would also move independents." (Wolff, 24:05)
  • "These are the two meaningful pillars... who could immediately make a meaningful difference..." (Wolff, 26:01)
• Speculation on Obama & Bush’s Thinking:
  The hosts speculate whether the two ex-presidents are afraid, disengaged, or saving their “firepower” for the midterms:
  • "Either they're doing something in secret... or they're doing quite the obvious." (Wolff, 27:33)

5. International Affairs & Distractions

• Venezuela:
  Trump’s intervention in Venezuela is dismissed as primarily performative, with no substantive policy change:
  • "Donald Trump, I'm taking over the country. Well, he is not taking over the country. The country continues to run as it has been running in an authoritarian fashion..." (Wolff, 32:08)
• Iran and Global Posture:
  Trump’s promises to intervene are seen as more hot air and vacuous threats:
  • "Whatever comes out of Trump's mouth is separate from what will happen." (Wolff, 37:32)
• Economic Repercussions:
  As international players adapt, American instability is predicted to have negative economic effects:
  • "As the Trump administration gets odder and more peculiar, other people are just getting on with business as normal, which is going to have a bad impact on the American economy." (Host, 39:12)

6. The Power and Limitations of Protest

• Protests Spreading—But to What Effect?:
  Coles notes protesting in unlikely places, but Wolff insists only mass, disruptive action could work:
  • "Historically protests have worked when essentially the business of government is stopped. This protests around the country... can be ignored.... A million people in Washington, in these extreme circumstances, would certainly be helpful, would stop the government." (Wolff, 44:06)

7. The Generational Divide and New Leaders

• Emergence of New Democratic Voices:
  The hosts discuss candidates like Jasmine Crockett and Graham Platner, as possible new faces for the party—a sharp contrast to the absent Obama and aging establishment.
  • "It's very interesting to see this new group of leaders and you go from a 77 year old to a 41 year old with apparently nothing in between." (Host, 41:37)
  • "Barack Obama is in between. But as you have said, he is nowhere to be seen." (Wolff/Host exchange, 41:49-41:51)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump’s media manipulation:
  • "He doesn't really care what it makes him look like. Are all of the headlines about him? If they are about him, they are about nobody else." — Michael Wolff (01:58 / 13:11)
• On absolute immunity:
  • "What does absolute immunity mean? ... an internal police force that is answerable to only one person, the President of the United States. And beyond that, there is no recourse here for anybody." — Michael Wolff (04:31)
• On Obama’s absence:
  • "Where the fuck is Barack Obama?" — Michael Wolff (16:21)
• On meaningful opposition:
  • "The two big guns, the two meaningful pillars of… resistance… are, to say the very least, MIA." — Michael Wolff (26:01)
• On protest:
  • "Historically protests have worked when essentially the business of government is stopped… In these extreme circumstances, I think an extreme number of people would certainly be helpful." — Michael Wolff (44:06)
• On the threat of normalizing the extreme:
  • "Moving the army into an American city is..." — Joanna Coles (16:17)
  • "Yeah, well, I guess shooting people defines that." — Michael Wolff (16:21)

Key Timestamps

• Shooting/ICE crisis in Minneapolis: 01:58 – 10:00
• Trump’s media strategy & Insurrection Act: 10:00 – 14:30
• Lack of Democratic and presidential leadership: 14:30 – 24:40
• Calls for Obama/Bush to step up: 24:40 – 29:00
• Venezuela & global affairs discussion: 29:46 – 37:32
• Economic fallout, new trade deals: 39:12 – 40:03
• Emergence of new Democratic leaders: 41:37 – 42:53
• Protests & the power of mass mobilization: 42:53 – 44:55

Summary

The episode provides a sweeping, critical, and at times biting account of Trump’s escalation tactics, focusing on the use of the Insurrection Act as a way to distract from scandal and galvanize his base. Wolff and Coles paint a picture of a political system in crisis—not only because of Trump’s actions but because of the paralysis and absence of the very people who should be providing a moral counterweight, such as Barack Obama and George W. Bush. The episode closes with both alarm and a call to action: if not now, when? If not them, who?

For listeners seeking insight and context on the ramifications of Trump’s Minneapolis crackdown and the vacuum of genuine political opposition, this episode is an urgent, unvarnished dispatch from the front lines of American democracy.