The Daily Beast Podcast

Episode: "How Tucker Carlson Could Steal Crown From Trump"

Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: Jason Zengerly, author of Hated By All the Right People
Date: February 5, 2026

Main Theme

This episode dives deep into Tucker Carlson’s meteoric rise from embattled TV pundit to an influential kingmaker within the conservative movement—and possibly an inheritor of Donald Trump’s political mantle. Joanna Coles and author Jason Zengerly explore Carlson’s evolving relationship with Trump, his ideological trajectory, his impact on right-wing politics and media, his fascination with strongmen like Viktor Orban and Vladimir Putin, and speculate on whether Carlson's ultimate ambition is the presidency itself.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Tucker Carlson's Influence on Trump and the GOP

• Carlson as Trump Advisor

  • Zengerly: "He could drive government decision making, drive policy making, just by communicating with Trump through the television, through his show. He knew Trump was watching." (04:14)
  • Tucker shaped personnel decisions, notably influencing Trump to call off a military strike against Iran.
  • Jared Kushner advised White House staff they "have to watch Tucker Carlson Tonight if you’re going to work in this White House" (04:55).

• Detachment and Proximity

  • Tucker kept personal distance from Trump, wary of being "destroyed" by close association (05:34).
  • Sometimes let Trump’s calls go to voicemail, a move that paradoxically increased Trump’s respect for him (05:34).

The Fox News / Dominion Voting Fallout

• Dominion Case Disclosures

  • Tucker's leaked emails called Trump a "demonic force," showing private skepticism and fatigue regarding Trump (10:03).
  • Carlson was not an on-air promoter of Dominion conspiracies but still expressed intense private frustration.
  • Coles quoting Carlson: “We are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights. I truly can’t wait.” (10:28)

• Post-Fox Strategy

  • After losing Fox’s platform, Tucker leaned into a close association with Trump to retain influence and audience (11:00).

Tucker's Consistency Versus Trump’s Opportunism

• Ideological Leadership
  • Tucker more consistently articulated "Trumpism" than Trump:
    • "Tucker, in a weird way, became actually more of an ideological standard bearer for the MAGA movement than Trump because Tucker was consistent." (11:27)
  • He’s moved from a semi-detached on-air critic to an entrenched, inside advisor—especially on the 2024 campaign and the Veep selection for J.D. Vance (12:40).

The Fox News Break & Rapprochement With Trump

• Both Tucker and Trump were embittered by Fox's attempts to "disappear" Trump and promote DeSantis after January 6th (14:16).
• Trump and Carlson collaborated to undercut Fox, notably by releasing a one-on-one interview during the GOP debate on X/Twitter, drawing viewers from Fox (16:00).

Tucker as Performer and Media Chameleon

• Performance Instinct
  • Carlson’s career was built on staying visible, from MSNBC and CNN to game show pilots and "Dancing With the Stars".
  • "He really wanted to stay in television...He did Dancing with the Stars as a way, I think, to introduce himself to America as someone who wasn't, you know, wearing the bow tie and sitting at the desk..." (22:46)
  • Both Trump and Carlson are credited with unrivaled charisma and showmanship, setting them apart from other right-wing leaders (25:00).

Foreign Influences: Viktor Orban & Vladimir Putin

• Hungarian Model

  • Carlson presented Viktor Orban’s Hungary as a model of governance to American conservatives, normalizing authoritarian strategies on mainstream U.S. media (26:18).
  • Tucker Quote: “You don't have to have leaders who hate the population or divide their own people against each other, who make the country worse, who open borders, who increase crime..." (30:49)

• Softball Interview with Putin

  • Carlson’s interview with Putin was marked by a lack of challenge, permitting Putin to direct the conversation (33:40).
  • Attempted to negotiate the release of WSJ reporter Evan Gershowitz, also motivated by a chance to upstage Rupert Murdoch (34:00).

• Pro-Putin and Contrarianism

  • Tucker’s skepticism of U.S. foreign policy, admiration for strongmen, and contrarian instincts drive his pro-Putin stances (35:06).
  • Participated in videos idealizing Russian everyday life, ignoring realities of repression and poverty—raising questions about naiveté vs. propaganda (36:53).

The Far-Right Pipeline

• Platforming Nick Fuentes
  • Carlson interviewed neo-Nazi Nick Fuentes to "end their feud" and court Fuentes’ young, extremist audience (52:26).
  • Zengerly: “He’s made the calculus that to be successful in conservative media... you need the neo Nazis. Like you can’t, you have to have them in your corner. That, to me, was what was interesting because Tucker... is very good at skating to where the puck is going to be.” (52:26)

Personal Background and Psychological Insights

• Family Dynamics

  • Carlson’s father was a self-made TV newsman and Reagan conservative; his mother, of great wealth, left the family when Tucker was eight and left him $1 in her will, a detail both speculate left deep marks (42:52).
  • Only recently has Tucker publicly acknowledged the estrangement from his mother (43:10).

• Ambition and Future Plans

  • Zengerly doubts Tucker has "burning ambition" for office but identifies movement-leader tendencies.
  • If J.D. Vance or other protégés fail as vehicles, Carlson might consider running for president himself (46:03).
  • Currently, Tucker is closest ideologically and personally with Vance, who echoes his positions (46:03).

Notable Quotes

• On Tucker as Movement Leader:

  • "He's more than just a podcaster...I really think he's kind of a movement leader at this point. I think he has bigger ambitions and broader aims..."
    — Jason Zengerly (04:00, 22:17)

• On Tucker’s Approach to Trump:

  • "He didn't want to get too close to Trump, concluding that everyone who did...was ultimately destroyed by the association."
    — Joanna Coles (06:41)

• On Orban as Model:

  • “Hungary has become, and Viktor Orban have become this ... obsession of conservatives in the United States...Tucker was really responsible for that.”
    — Jason Zengerly (26:18)

• On Nick Fuentes Interview:

  • "To be successful in conservative media...you need the neo-Nazis. You have to have them as your audience. You have to have them as your voters."
    — Jason Zengerly (52:26)

• On Carlson’s Charisma:

  • "After Trump, I think Tucker is the most kind of entertaining, charismatic figure on the right."
    — Jason Zengerly (25:00)

• On Financial Motivation:

  • "He has enough money. He has. His ratings are great. He doesn't have to worry that much. I think he has bigger ambitions and broader aims..."
    — Jason Zengerly (22:17)

Memorable Moments and Timestamps

• [04:14] Carlson’s strategy to advise Trump via television.
• [05:34] Tucker avoiding personal entanglement with Trump; letting calls go to voicemail.
• [10:03] Leaked texts showing Carlson’s private loathing and exhaustion with Trump.
• [11:27] Post-Fox, Tucker embraces Trump and conservatism’s inner circle.
• [16:00] Trump and Tucker coordinate to undercut Fox News during GOP debate.
• [22:46] Carlson’s lifelong quest to stay relevant and visible on TV, from punditry to game shows.
• [26:18] Tucker’s Hungarian infomercial, mainstreaming Orban as a U.S. conservative model.
• [33:40] Softball Putin interview, failed attempt to free imprisoned journalist.
• [35:06] Intricacies of Carlson’s pro-Putin stance and suspicion of U.S. global power.
• [42:52] Carlson’s formative family trauma: abandonment and symbolic inheritance.
• [46:03] Speculation on Tucker’s own political ambitions if Vance falters.
• [52:26] The Nick Fuentes interview as an ominous sign of the movement’s direction.

Conclusion

This episode offers an unflinching look at how Tucker Carlson, once an ambivalent Trump ally, now wields extraordinary influence over both the former president and the direction of the post-Trump right. Through Jason Zengerly’s years of reporting and personal insight, listeners learn not only of Carlson’s pivotal role in conservative politics but also his deeper ambitions, showman instincts, and willingness to draw even the most fringe elements into his expanding tent—making him a singular force, perhaps even a kingmaker, in the evolving American right.

Recommended For:
Anyone interested in contemporary U.S. politics, media influence, the inner workings of the conservative movement, and the personal trajectories of the country’s most polarizing figures.