The Daily Beast Podcast
Episode: "This Is How Bondi Can Face Justice On Epstein Lies"
Host: Joanna Coles | Guest: Glenn Kirschner
Date: March 19, 2026
Episode Overview
This episode centers around the legal chaos at the core of the U.S. government and the challenges posed by unchecked power and corruption, with a particular focus on Attorney General Pam Bondi’s handling of the Epstein files and the broader implication of corrupt pardons under Donald Trump. Joanna Coles is joined by seasoned former prosecutor Glenn Kirschner to dissect the shrinking legitimacy of key institutions, the Supreme Court’s fragile response to presidential overreach, and the ways justice could (or should) be restored.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Corrupt Pardons: Threat to the Republic
[00:01] - [00:48]; [20:48]
- Glenn Kirschner opens by warning of corruptly delivered presidential pardons as a potential means to buy co-conspirators’ silence.
- Quote: “A president can buy a co-conspirator’s silence by delivering a presidential pardon. Then you know, we continue to move in the direction of the end of our republic.” — Glenn Kirschner [00:36]
- Even former AG Bill Barr testified that such pardons would be improper and constitute a crime—not simply political discretion.
- Kirschner urges that courts must be used to challenge corrupt pardons, otherwise the constitutional checks fundamentally fail.
2. Supreme Court Under Threat & John Roberts’ Response
[01:24] - [09:04]; [10:34] - [12:50]
- Discussion pivots to judicial risk in the Trump era, especially after Chief Justice Roberts’ veiled critique of Trump’s attacks on the judiciary.
- Coles characterizes Roberts’ remarks as “mealy mouthed,” pressing Kirschner on whether the Chief Justice is truly afraid of Trump.
- Quote: “Chief Justice Roberts’ criticism of Donald Trump I think means exactly nothing to him. But their rulings mean something.” — Glenn Kirschner [08:25]
- Kirschner criticizes the Supreme Court’s decisions, particularly the presidential immunity ruling, for shielding executive misconduct and contradicting constitutional principles.
- Quote: “The Supreme Court announced that the Constitution itself is unconstitutional.” — Akhil Reed Amar, quoted by Glenn Kirschner [06:15]
- Both agree that many officials, including Roberts and Republican Congress members, act out of fear of Trump.
3. Pam Bondi & The Mishandling of the Epstein Files
[15:11] - [20:38]
- The episode details Pam Bondi’s legal violations in her selective and delayed release of the Epstein files.
- Bondi missed statutory deadlines, withheld half of the files (3 million documents), and made unauthorized redactions while exposing victims’ identities.
- Coles and Kirschner emphasize the criminality of Bondi’s actions—including lying to Congress about Trump’s involvement.
- Quote: “It almost feels like she’s punishing the victims…by revealing their names and identities in violation of the law.” — Glenn Kirschner [16:53]
- Lying to Congress falls under “1001” false statements, a five-year felony.
- Quote: “We call it a 1001 statement because that is the statute that she, that anybody violates when they lie to Congress…” — Glenn Kirschner [19:18]
- Kirschner doubts Bondi's DOJ would self-investigate, but notes the five-year statute of limitations gives hope for future accountability.
4. Congressional Accountability & The Role of Impeachment
[12:50] - [15:11]; [20:38]
- Kirschner asserts impeachment is "all but certain" if Democrats take the House, though conviction in the Senate remains unlikely.
- Emphasis is placed on “following the process” for justice, selecting from a “buffet of high crimes and misdemeanors.”
5. DOJ Stacked with Trump Loyalists
[24:18] - [26:16]
- Coles is incredulous at the degree Trump has installed personal lawyers (Bondi, Todd Blanche, Emile Beauvais) across DOJ and judiciary positions.
- Quote: “That’s insane that we allow people like that to run the justice system as high law enforcement officials when they’re still keeping Donald Trump’s criminal secrets.” — Glenn Kirschner [26:08]
- Kirschner stresses the ethical impossibility: these officials remain "keepers" of Trump’s secrets, undermining justice system integrity.
6. Threats and Pressures Facing Judges
[27:01] - [29:05]
- The discussion covers the rise in intimidation of judges, including threats and doxxing, especially after controversial cases.
- Kirschner believes most judges are still ruling based on law and facts, but acknowledges these personal risks may weigh on them.
7. Scorched Earth Accountability & The American Accountability Project
[29:59] - [32:53]; [47:47]
- Kirschner outlines the need for a post-Trump “scorched earth” accountability push, dubbed the American Accountability Project—not partisan, but dedicated to prosecuting criminality and restoring rule of law.
- Lamentation over past failures with Nixon and the 2020 insurrection; “If we do it a third time, I don’t know that we deserve to keep our republic.” [32:38]
8. Kristi Noem: Perjury and Administrative Failures
[32:53] - [37:41]
- Focus shifts to Kristi Noem’s congressional perjury referral over misleading testimony about DHS contracts and controversial ad campaigns.
- Quote: “That is a lay down winner on the perjury or false statement 1001 front.” — Glenn Kirschner [35:09]
- Kirschner is skeptical Pam Bondi would pursue charges, but notes that inaction could expose Bondi herself to accessory-after-the-fact liability.
9. Police Killings and Federal Non-Accountability
[37:41] - [44:54]
- Analysis of the shootings of Renee Goode and Alex Pretty, which Kirschner deems “unlawful uses of deadly force.”
- Quote: “He was executed while basically being forced down to the ground on his stomach after having been disarmed.” — Glenn Kirschner [39:52]
- DOJ’s refusal to investigate cited as “abdication of responsibility”; future accountability is a key goal for reform efforts.
10. The Next Attorney General: Qualities Required
[44:54] - [48:08]
- Coles asks Kirschner who could restore DOJ legitimacy and challenge corrupt pardons.
- Kirschner points to Jack Smith-like candidates—fearless, fast-moving, and not concerned with “optics” or political influence—as essential, drawing sharp contrast with Merrick Garland’s perceived timidity.
- Quote: “You can’t say, we’re going to make investigative and prosecutorial decisions based on how the public will perceive the legitimacy of the Department of Justice.” — Glenn Kirschner [45:55]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On the dangers of corrupt pardons:
“If the courts...say no, a president can buy a co-conspirator’s silence by delivering a presidential pardon, then...we continue to move in the direction of the end of our republic.” — Glenn Kirschner [00:36] -
On judicial fear and Trump:
“But if I had to guess, I would say John Roberts is absolutely afraid of him...I don’t know that those old rules of civility really win the day when we are fighting and scrapping every day to save our democracy.” — Glenn Kirschner [11:28] -
On DOJ stacked with loyalists:
“That’s insane that we allow people like that to run the justice system...when they're still keeping Donald Trump's criminal secrets.” — Glenn Kirschner [26:08] -
On past failures to hold presidents accountable:
“If we do it a third time, Joanna, I don't know that we deserve to keep our republic.” — Glenn Kirschner [32:38] -
On the future of justice:
“The next Department of Justice ... will have to go scorched earth in the direction of accountability from day one.” — Glenn Kirschner [19:40]
Significant Timestamps
- [00:01] The threat posed by corruptly delivered Trump pardons
- [07:11] Dangers of Supreme Court’s immunity ruling for democracy
- [11:28] Fear-driven behavior by John Roberts and the GOP
- [16:12] Pam Bondi’s legal violations with the Epstein files
- [19:18] Explanation of "1001 statement"—lying to Congress
- [20:48] Pardons: even Bill Barr says certain uses are a crime
- [24:43] Trump’s lawyers ascending to DOJ and judiciary
- [27:01] Impact on judges fearing reprisals
- [32:38] The necessity of accountability to save the republic
- [35:10] Kristi Noem’s potential perjury charge
- [39:52] Alex Pretty’s execution by law enforcement
- [45:55] Attributes needed in the next Attorney General
Tone and Takeaways
The tone throughout is urgent, candid, and at times indignant. Both Coles and Kirschner mix biting humor with gravitas, making the legal intricacies relatable and immediate for listeners. The episode paints a picture of democratic institutions under siege from within, and asserts that only relentless legal accountability—untainted by fear—can restore public trust.
Recommendation to Listeners:
If you care about the intersection of law, democracy, and unchecked executive power in America, this is an episode not to miss. Glenn Kirschner’s prosecutor’s insights clarify the stakes and steps forward for restoring the rule of law in the wake of extraordinary corruption.