Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (3:21)

If I had to describe what it feels like right now, it feels like we're in an abusive relationship. It feels like, you know, you have someone. And I think that the abuse is felt by the Republicans and the Democrats alike. Right. You thought that you were in a relationship with someone who understood the rules of being in a relationship, but instead violated them. And that's exactly what not only members of Congress are experiencing, but frankly, the American people. There are so many people that feel like he violated their trust with the priorities that he laid out versus his actual actions. But I will say that most Republicans just don't want to go against him. They don't want to deal with what Marjorie Taylor Greene dealt with when she decided she couldn't take it anymore. Because when you're on the opposite side of him, if you're going to be vocal against him, it doesn't matter if you're a Democrat, Republican or Independent. Then he does have kind of like a mob like situation set up where there are people that will come after you, there are people that will threaten you. And you are constantly looking over your shoulder. And I can imagine that if you have a spouse or a child, it is that much more frightening for you. And so, you know, I thank God that, you know, even though I've asked at different times, like, why don't I have a husband and kids? And then I'm like, oh, okay, maybe because you knew I was going to enter this moment, but that's not really what politics should be like, right? Like, not really. Oh, you can't speak out. You can't speak the truth. You can't talk about the oath that you took to the Constitution. You can't rein in someone out of fear that someone may try to take your life. Like, it doesn't make sense that we're like, hey, guys, we had to get a bulletproof vest. It doesn't make sense that that is the life that you have to live.

Joanna Coles (5:12)

Do you have to. Congresswoman, do you have to wear a bulletproof vest?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (5:15)

We are absolutely making sure I wear a bulletproof vest because I don't know if I'm in a big, big, big situation. I just don't know.

Joanna Coles (5:25)

Wow. I was not expecting to kick off with that. Are there different categories of Republicans, though? Because there are clearly the true believers, like Mike Johnson. But then are there others who say one thing when Trump is around, but behind his back are saying, when are we going to use the 25th Amendment? I mean, do people feel largely, if you were doing a sweep of the Republicans you talk to, do they think that he is on top form, or do they think that he is aging and in decline?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (5:59)

So none of them have addressed that. None of them have addressed that. Not with me. I've not had Republicans say anything to me about that. I will tell you that Republicans, for the most part, are just afraid of him being on the other side of them, Whether it means that they may lose their election or whether it means that they may endure the death threats. They just are cowards. I mean, if I'm being honest. And then the ones that really are over him, they have decided to leave Congress. So there's a lot of retirements that are taking place, and a lot of those retirements. I've not talked to the people that are retiring on that side of the aisle, but I personally believe that it's that. And then you have only like a Thomas Massie who is willing to go toe to toe, and he only stands for what he believes in. Right? And I would say, and it's crazy because Thomas Massie is, is probably a further right Republican than kind of like your. I wouldn't classify him as a moderate guy, but he's a true Republican. Like, he is a true fiscal conservative. Like he. So he go, he will vote against the budgets because it's spending too much money. Like, he won't do it just because Trump wants it. He's like, no, it's spending too much money. He also, you know, led the way as it relates to the Epstein files. Right? He is still leading the way on the Epstein files. He is against dropping bombs in Venezuela. Like, this is a guy that functions as a regular Republican. And we serve on the Judiciary Committee together. And there have been times that he's had an amendment to a bill and Democrats support it or vice versa. Like, he just. I'm like, can we get back to it is crazy. But I'm like, can we get more Thomas Massie's people that just literally understand who they are and what they believe and they stick by that. The problem with MAGA is MAGA doesn't have a belief system. MAGA simply does whatever Trump says. And so, like, you can't function. You can't govern that way. Like, you have to be like, oh, I can go to this person and get help on this because they believe in this kind of freedom or whatever. Like, are they a constitutionalist or, you know, something? We're just like, waiting to see what the truth post will be before they know which way they can go. And it's crazy. They have absolutely abdicated their duties.

Joanna Coles (8:25)

So have you spoken to Marjorie Taylor Greene? Obviously, you famously got into it some months ago, but did you speak to her after she announced she was leaving Congress?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (8:37)

No. She wasn't really around very much afterwards. And so I don't even remember her being in committee because we serve on oversight together. So I can't really recall her being in committee after that. Marjorie and I were never really friends.

Joanna Coles (8:52)

Well, I wasn't sure if you ran into her in the bathroom or, you know, the cafe or something. So what do you make of her leaving? Do you think she's positioning herself to come back into politics as a more independent character? Do you think she might run against Donald Trump? What was your impression of her saying that she was going to leave?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (9:11)

So I talked to some people in Georgia to find out what was, like, what the rumblings were in Georgia. There are those that believe she's about to run for governor of Georgia. The filing deadline has not passed, and I think there may have been a rule that would have caused her some problems if she would have been serving in the House while trying to run for governor. And so I don't think that they have, like, a real frontrunner for governor. And I think she tried to moderate herself to hopefully be able to get it. We know that Kemp was not one of Trump's favorites, but he was able to win Georgia, and so he had kind of moderated himself, and he was against Trump or Trump was really against him because he refused to steal the election on his behalf. So we are looking and thinking and believing that she most likely is about to try to run for governor.

Joanna Coles (10:04)

And do you think she actually is more moderate than she always portrayed herself, or she really is a MAGA candidate?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (10:12)

No, She's a MAGA candidate. She is not moderate at all. And I don't know that she believes she can make it through the primary without trying to get a little bit of kind of love from both. Right. MAGA would probably still stand with her because they know her as being MAGA versus somebody else. And then, you know, maybe some moderates would be like, oh, well, you know, she went against him. So I think she's trying to kind of get both groups. But she is absolutely still maga. She still did take some pretty bad votes on a few things after she left, so. Or I'm sorry, as she was on her way out the door.

Joanna Coles (10:48)

Right. So you mentioned you're on the Oversight Committee. Can you bring us up to speed with what on earth is going on with the Epstein files? I mean, you mentioned Thomas Massie, too, who got together with Ro Khanna and they managed to persuade enough of the women Republicans to vote for the release. Then there was the unanimous vote, vote for the release of the Epstein files. What is happening? What is happening with them?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (11:13)

Yeah, nothing. Pam Bondi is not qualified, both ethically and probably legally, to be the. To serve as our top lawyer in this country. And so with that, she just does whatever Donald Trump tells her to do, which also is not her job, but whatever. And so they are not releasing files. But now this is law. So it's, you know, it's bigger than just a subpoena, which is what we were able to get out of the Oversight Committee. It is an actual law. And so the question is, what does it look like to enforce the law? Because the enforcement mechanisms weren't really kind of laid out in the law most likely to try to get people on to sign it. And so it's my understanding that there is litigation that is about to ensue against her for violating the law. And we will see kind of where a court goes on that and where.

Joanna Coles (12:16)

Does the litigation come from? Who's bringing that?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (12:19)

Actually, Roe and Massie are leading the way.

Joanna Coles (12:22)

And are you talking to the victims at all and the survivors of Jeffrey Epstein? I mean, I mean, what are you hearing from them?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (12:30)

So I've not talked to them recently. I will say that they've got some amazing attorneys that are just so very helpful in making sure we can kind of navigate and understand the space, but also just like, being good stewards and good partners with these women and making sure that, you know, as we go out and we do news and things like that, we keep them out front as far as, like, how much of Their stories, they want out, and make sure that we're pushing that. There are real people attached to this. I applaud so many of them because they've made it clear that it wasn't partisan for some of them, like, for any of them. And I'm saying some of them. Some of them, you know, made it clear that they voted for Donald Trump. Right? Like, I mean, part of the reason they voted for him was because of this. Now, granted, we're talking about survivors that span, you know, decades and have different experiences with different people. But, like, literally, it's like people that voted for both Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. And so for the survivors, it's not political. And frankly, for the Democrats, it's not either. That's why we're like, call in whoever you think. Like, if there are bad Democrats, then bring them in. Like, we're not trying to protect pedophiles. And that is the message that we want to get across. And that is, that is where we're really going wrong. In this moment right now, it is a matter of if you are close enough to the president, it doesn't matter if you are a drug trafficker, it doesn't matter if you're a child rapist, it doesn't matter if you're a dictator. If you're close to him, then you don't have anything to worry about. But if you are on the opposite side of him, that's when you become a bad person and you may not even be a criminal. Right? I mean, and so that's where it's, you know, the way that I phrased it this weekend is that we are searching for our morality right now. Like, this isn't right or left right now in the way that governance is taking place. It's right or wrong. And right now, we got a lot of wrong that's going on. And we're just asking people, like I was telling a group of people, I said, go back to your elementary days where they asked you the difference between a truth and a lie, whether something was right or wrong. Forget if there's a D or R attached to it. Just, is it right to go and drop bombs and Congress not have any say? So that's a yes or no, right? It's very simple. And it seems like it only gets complicated depending on who did it. So do you think that's a problem?

Joanna Coles (15:01)

Is there a sense that Congress is frustrated about this? I mean, Congress appears to have been completely cut out of any process whatsoever. Can you not all rise together? Can you not all. You know, at least express your discontent or fury with the president.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (15:18)

I would say yes, technically. You know, we know that the War Powers Resolution was passed last week out of the Senate. So the Senate was able to get a couple of people to come over. A couple of Republicans, you know, Democrats stood strong, a couple of Republicans came on board. We will see if anything happens on the House side or not. I don't have the highest of hopes because Donald Trump then went after those senators. You know, it's. I mean, it is. It is crazy to have such a brazen criminal running the United States. And that's exactly who he is. He's a brazen criminal.

Joanna Coles (15:58)

It does seem like it's an extraordinary moment. Do you think Mike Johnson survives? Will he survive as speaker?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (16:07)

Maybe. I mean, he changed the rules to make it more difficult to kick him out. So that's one thing. He wanted to insulate himself just a little bit. You know, I think. I don't think they want to go through this. We don't have anybody. And so we're just kind of out there again, and everyone's looking at us in dysfunction. I think the people that would have been most inclined to kind of instigate the coup, so to speak, they're gone. You know, Matt Gaetz isn't here. He was the one that was instigating before. Marjorie was right there with them. Like, Marjorie's gone. Like, I think the people that potentially would have instigated this type of action, they're not around. So I think that they'll just kind of sit around. They'll complain about Mike Johnson, but I don't know that he'll get kicked out. I think that he would call Trump first to threaten people, and then they would fall in line.

Joanna Coles (17:10)

So you mentioned the Justice Department. If you were doing the top three issues that cause you, as a congresswoman, the most concern, what would they be? And we're recording this on a Tuesday afternoon, and Donald Trump has just yelled at a group of US Attorneys that had come to the White House for a photo opportunity, and he's just told them that they're holding up his bigger plans. So we've mentioned the doj. What would be the other sort of your two priorities?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (17:41)

So for doj, it's probably the prosecutions that are taking place of enemies, Right? The perceived enemies.

Joanna Coles (17:53)

So, like Jerome Powell.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (17:55)

Yes, yes. Letitia James. You know, the list goes on. Comey. You know, I think that that is so very, very chilling and concerning. And firing people if they fail to do it. Yeah, that I think also the fact that they specifically gutted the Civil Rights Division and the Department of Justice is the one that is advising on use of force things and that kind of stuff. So as we see that ICE is out of control, I don't anticipate that there's any relief that we would ever get from this Department of Justice, even if they were to be sued. Our laws are kind of difficult to get over sometimes. These guys are so bad that we should be able to get over it. But I just don't think that they would do anything in the way of justice for these victims. In addition to that, they were the ones that advised him that it was okay to send people to torture camps in other countries. So, you know, there's a lot that's kind of sitting there. And then also just this idea that the Department of Justice and basically Pam Bondi did whatever trumped up charges, she wanted to. To give cover for what they did in Venezuela, to say that it was a law enforcement action when it wasn't, but that was the COVID So it's like, no, no, he got charged by the Department of Justice. And so this is why we have to go and get their sitting president who, you know, we can deal with his legitimacy or illegitimacy later, but, like, go in kill people because they killed Venezuelans to go get him. And then we've not heard much about the law enforcement side of this action. We've heard about oil. We've talked about he wasn't being prosecuted for oil. I mean, but that's all the President has talked about, is him Talking to Oil CEOs about getting oil out of Venezuela. And his press conference was oil, oil, oil. And so I just have grave concerns about the type of Department of Justice that would allow the various miscarriages to take place. And it's just completely illegal. But I could go on about them. You asked me about other priorities. In general, I think that we have to talk through tariffs. I think tariffs are hurting not only the American people, but they are hurting our international relationships and our friendships. And, you know, the average person doesn't even talk about tariffs. Like, they don't even think about that, like, in their everyday kind of work, but understanding that tariffs are supposed to be a tool, a tool of deterrence for different actors. And he's mischaracterized what they are, how they work. But, you know, we would typically wage, say, tariffs on Russia as they are waging war on Ukraine. Right. Like, as a way of kind of putting them in a bind. Right. That's what we would normally do. We normally would not talk to Canada and Mexico, our friends and who we have worked collaboratively with in so many ways as part of North America, and start to pick fights. And so you start to pick unnecessary fights. And I think we're fighting on too many fronts. And frankly, we may be isolated in a minute because of this leadership. So I think that we have to think through that, because from a national security standpoint, this administration is actually making us more vulnerable to hate and attacks, whether we're talking about the illegal acts of Elon Musk and the impoundment of funds that Congress had actually set aside for, say, usaid. And so that was our way of flexing soft power and building good relationships for pennies on the dollar. And people have died. We have, like, hundreds of thousands of people have died because randomly the money was cut off. And it was all so that the likes of an Elon Musk can get $8 million a day. The cruelty that America is evidencing while also saying that we have the moral high ground to go and pull another dictator. And I say another dictator because it's a very dictatorial thing to do, to not have the authority or power to go in and take somebody else's leader out. But you go and do it like you can't be the good guy. You're not the good guy. Right. So I would say that that has to be another thing that is just kind of high up there. So I kind of put a lot of it in. One.

Joanna Coles (22:49)

Yeah. No, no. It's interesting. So look, you're. Are you being redistricted? You're running for Senate in Texas. Is the reason that you're giving up your Congress seat because you're being redistricted?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (23:02)

It is one of the factors in general, I feel confident that I could have won a seat. The rules when you're running in Congress is that you just have to be a resident of the state, but you can run anywhere in the state. And I feel confident that I would have been able to find a seat somewhere to run. I feel confident in that. But they did kick me out of my district. I technically could have ran for my district. I wouldn't have been able to vote for myself, but I could have run for it. And I don't think anyone would have run against me simply because they would have understood that. They kicked me out of my district. But I'm not going to move around and buy new homes in all these different districts every time they want to play funny things with the lines. But I will tell you that the fact that the Supreme Court affirmed a decision or actually reversed a decision from the lower court and allowed these maps that go into effect four days before the filing deadline, that absolutely was a trigger for me because they are trying to reduce our power and our voices. And the reality is that they were reducing the voices of Latinos in our state to one third. They were reducing voices of African Americans to one fifth. But when you run statewide, everybody's voice counts just the same. And, you know, to allow them to just have a pass and go back to the Senate while also doing what they're doing on the House side and understanding that most of the challenges that we have in the United States that kind of got us here, it is because of the Senate. The only reason that they were able to redistrict is randomly is because the John Lewis Voting Rights Advancement act that passed out of the House, it did not pass out of the Senate. The only reason that women are struggling as it relates to reproductive access is because we can pass the bill out the House but can't get nowhere in the Senate. The only reason we have this configuration of the Supreme Court is because they came through and they got confirmed in this Senate. So every time I think about the only reason he has immunity right now is because of this Supreme Court, which again came through the Senate. And there's only one body that has oversight over the federal judiciary. It is the Senate, not the House. So for me, I can't say that I want to make change and I want to do better and then say, well, I'm too scared and I just want a title and I just want to stay in the ring. No. Sometimes you've got to make bold moves. And we are living in a bold moment where we have an unhinged, most likely mentally ill chief who's a con in chief. And we have people that are scared on both sides, Democrats and Republicans.

Joanna Coles (25:47)

Congresswoman, just hold on for a second. We're going to take a quick break for some ads.

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Joanna Coles (27:55)

And I'm back with Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett, who is running for a Senate seat in Texas. You don't seem scared, you seem fearless. And you've been. You've been certainly out there. You're in a very tight race against a sort of relative newcomer, James Tallarico. What's the difference between your positions? If I'm rarely paying attention? I live in Texas and I know that the Democrats have put up two candidates. Why would I vote for you and not him?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (28:29)

Yeah, so I think just this past week a poll came out. This poll was about favorabilities and a number of people were trying to interpret kind of what it meant. The poll said, number one, that my favorability is higher than all the Republicans that are running and they are all elected in some way. And this was a poll of just people in Texas. It was 12 to 1600 people. I don't remember what the number was. And so it's significant to know that I have name ID that is approximately just as high as theirs, but my favorability is higher than theirs. The challenges that Democrats typically have when we are running statewide in Texas is we have great candidates. So I don't have anything bad to say about James. I served with him in the state House, and actually, James has been an elected official longer than I have, but he only has state experience. Right now, we're talking about a federal position. And so it's not even just that it's a federal position, but it's a federal position during the time of Trump. And a lot of people have been disappointed with how their elected leaders are dealing in this moment, whether they're Democrats or Republicans. Well, Texans know how I will deal in this moment, specifically because I've been dealing in this moment. That's number one. Number two, we can't really afford to get behind and have somebody that has to learn through all of these areas as well as learn the processes. As somebody who's served on both levels, I can tell you that they're different, and so we get the benefit of not having to deal with the learning curve. But most importantly, the reason that I brought up this poll and reason that I brought up name ID is that we typically spend about $100 million trying to get somebody into office, but we basically spend the vast majority of the money with people just trying to learn the person's name. And frankly, that's just not enough. We saw, even when we look at the presidential, one of the things that initially came out when the vice President got in, in some focus groups was that people said that they didn't know her. And I was like, that's crazy. Like, you got to know her. She's the Vice President of the United States. Like, what do people mean? And what it was is that people feel like they know Donald Trump. They feel like they know him, right? Because they've watched him on TV for years. Whether it was on the Apprentice, they watched him and saw him in various magazines with different rappers and things like that. They've seen his name on buildings around the world forever. So when we would say things like, he actually has filed bankruptcy six times, people are like, you're lying. I've seen his name on the buildings. You know, so he had not only name id, but he had a brand. And so, like, I think that we get to start off a lot further along, which means that our money gets to go further with a candidate like me. So instead of people investing their money, because I've got a great Resume and I would make for a great senator. But people don't know who I am. Instead, we're past that base. I look at it like running bases for baseball. First base is do I know your name? Second base is what is your brand? Do I know it? Third base is do I like your brand? Do I like what you stand for? Do I want to associate with that? And then fourth base is actually getting you out to the polls. My theory is that we are at third base and so people know my name. All polling reveals that people know my brand. I'm known for being a fighter. Right. They know I'm a lawyer, they know I'm a fighter. Third base.

Joanna Coles (32:05)

And I think they know you because you're fast on your feet. Right. And you're good at causing, you're good at throwing out fantastic one liners which get picked up by people.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (32:14)

Yes. So that's. So we've got that. Right. So the final part of this is getting people to the polls, which I think we're going to effectively do. But if you look at the electorate for the last 30 years in Texas, there are Democrats that argue we have to go and get Republicans to come over in order to win. I don't approach it that way. And my opponent and I, I think see this differently. I look at it like we need to expand the electorate. If the electorate is the same that it's been for the last 30 years, then they are going to do what they've been doing for the last 30 years. They are going to elect another Republican. I don't believe if they didn't cross over and vote for Kamala Harris instead of a convicted felon, I just don't think that they crossing over. I just for somebody that they've potentially never heard of, like, I just don't believe in that philosophy. But Texas is a non voting, voter suppressed state. We know that we only turn out about a little bit more than 52% of the voters. So that means that we've got a lot of opportunity with non voters. When we look at who's not voting, it's mostly black and brown. And so that's why to me the win is in getting to those people. They feel like nobody has ever spoken up for them, nobody is represented for them and nobody frankly has tried to talk to them and bring them into the process. I think that's where the win is. We're going to get a bit of a bump simply because the environment is really bad for Republicans right now. Right. We also are going to do a Little bit better than normal. Because for the first time since the 90s, which the last Democratic governor we had Ann Richards, a woman, the second woman to be elected as governor in the state of Texas. Ann Richards was in office in the 90s. This is the first time that we have every state house, every state Senate, as well as U.S. house race that has someone running. That means that whoever is at the top of the ticket doesn't necessarily have to spend all their time running around to all 254 counties trying to talk to everyone, because you have someone that is consistently engaging the electorate in the Democratic way. And I think that all of these things combined, plus somebody who has a little bit of that ability to bring in people from all over the country. Because I've traveled the country helping candidates everywhere. I've got elected officials everywhere. In fact, one of my senators just today, or one of these senators in the US Senate said, hey, when am I coming to Texas?

Joanna Coles (34:32)

Well, I was going to ask you, who are your advisors, Congresswoman?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (34:36)

Yeah, so I talked to the vice president for sure. You know, I think that people learned in her book that she is one of my mentors. So for sure, I talked to her. I absolutely talked to Stacey Abrams just because of the role that she played as it relates to Georgia and how much work it took in a state that nobody believed in that continues to kind of perform in a purplish way. I also have been talking to some other people that I'm not going to say their names, but for the most part, just talking to people that have run bigger races and people that have done what some thought could not be done.

Joanna Coles (35:23)

You could look at Kamala Harris and Stacey Abrams and say they may have been strong candidates, but they both lost are there. And you have a sort of energy and chutzpah about you, and I think almost a modernity that they actually don't have. And so to me, it seems like they're interesting advisors for you, but they might not be leaning into the future of the Democratic Party party in the way that you seem able to. Does that make sense?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (35:57)

No, I completely understand. So I look at this as building blocks, right. I look at this as making progress and hopefully not doing certain things that may be ineffective. So when we have conversations, I'm like, all right, what worked? What didn't? Right? Like, what was effective? So Stacy was really big in getting the state of Georgia kind of organized and getting it to the point that it performed for Ossoff and Warnock. Right. And so she played an integral role built out her own organization, but she was doing something that hadn't been done. So it's like, all right, what worked, what didn't? Because what we want to do is focus on what did work, as well as doing the same thing with the vice president. Because while the vice president did not win as it relates to the presidency, she obviously won statewide, becoming only the second black woman to go to the US Senate in the country. And she did it in a really big state. So one of the challenges with Texas is just how vast it is, as well as how expensive the media markets are and things like that. So, you know, literally running statewide in a state that closely mirrors Texas. In fact, if you just look at our diversity numbers, we look like we would be performing as a Democratic state. And that's what is making the Republicans fearful. And this isn't hyperbole. The governor has decided that he is going to invest $90 million into one county this election cycle. Now, if the state was as red as they claim it is, there is no way. You don't see Gavin Newsom throwing $90 million into LA County. Right. There was obviously money that needed to be spent on the Prop 50 proposition. Right? So they went, they raised money, they spent that money to kind of get people to support Prop 50. But, like, why would you go into, like, the largest county in the State and invest $90 million? If you are as red as you.

Joanna Coles (38:01)

Say you are, are you going to have. Will Joe Biden come out and stump for you? Will you have support from the Obamas?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (38:11)

So I will. What I will say about President Biden is that I'll just tell you, I absolutely consulted with President Biden as well as Vice President Harris before I even made a decision. I talked to both of them multiple times. I also shared internal polling with them. I talked to them multiple times before coming to this decision. And I came to this decision. So I'll leave that there.

Joanna Coles (38:38)

Well, you might have decided not to take their advice and that you were going to make your own decision anyway. All right, well, can I ask.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (38:45)

Whatever way they want to. But I will tell you that I feel confident that. Well, I'll tell you this. We also, as we do polling, we poll for certain big names on how they function in the state. So if for some reason it looks like they can be helpful, I fully imagine that they absolutely, once I become the Democratic nominee, will sign up. I have not talked to the Obamas. I never served while they were in office. And so we don't have the same close relationship. I absolutely have met them and we've been trying to kind of get together on something.

Joanna Coles (39:27)

But would they poll well in Texas? Do you think they'd be an advantage for you in Texas?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (39:33)

I think the Obamas, yes. I think the Obamas, yes. I don't know about the president and the vice president, but I do think that running the race that we're trying to run, I do think that there is a role. So in a utopia, let's say everybody said we're all in for Crockett. I think that there is a role that every single one of them could play. Now, whether or not it's specifically in Texas or not is a whole other issue. We're talking about a race that's $100 million. And so doing surrogacy to raise money is a possibility. Definitely. Even if it's just passing me off to different donors, that kind of stuff. I think those are possibilities. So I think that there is a role for any and everyone to play, no matter what, if they were to say that they were interested in helping out.

Joanna Coles (40:21)

So Bowen, Yang and Matt Rogers got into trouble on their podcast over the weekend by saying that no one should send you money. What did your team think when they heard that? I mean, it was quite a long segment on the podcast as well. I mean, they went on and on and on about how it was a waste of money and that you were a candidate that was basically for yourself. Then they were forced to apologize. How did the apology come about?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (40:48)

I have no idea. I mean, I didn't call him. I didn't talk to him. We were busy. I did maybe 20 something events between Friday and end Monday all over Texas. So, you know, that was the least of my concerns. I will say that the real heroes are the people. And I'm so grateful to every person that was outraged and decided to use their platform to push back. Because you had two people that did not offer any substance whatsoever that decided to do that. We have our thoughts about where that came from and why it happened. We're still digging in. But I don't think this was as organic as people were led to believe.

Joanna Coles (41:35)

Oh, intriguing. Do you think it came from James Tallarico?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (41:39)

We just don't think it's as organic as people have been led to believe. But I will tell you that I don't know that they've been talking about Senate races anywhere. So it's very interesting. And that's definitely not the thrust of their podcast is to do that. But we've got a number of Senate races and frankly, there are a lot of people that say it can't be done in Texas anyway. And so you would think that maybe some of the more contentious primaries or something would be what they would talk about. And you would also think, I've never ever heard anyone say don't send money. And to say that in a primary, that was, that was very weird. And then just to kind of have a cosign from someone who's like, yeah, I don't know who that person is. It's like the unknown person that you've never heard of is obviously going to be the one that's going to be better to win. Make it make sense, right? So, you know, I mean, listen, it's politics and I have never been one to be thin skinned. And frankly, if I am going to be like shook because of what some podcasters who know nothing about Texas, who know nothing about politics, who absolutely have no data whatsoever to back them up, decided to say, then I probably should not be in politics. So I don't plan to go and sit around and try to respond to every troll that may be motivated, may be motivated from a very genuine space or otherwise. I'm not going to deal with that like I am focused on something that they claim I'm not focused on. I'm focused on the people, the people that I've consistently delivered for in every elected office, the people that are hurting right now, the people that I am arguing that I am best to represent. And so I would say that if my candidacy was so off base, nobody would be worried about whether or not the person that has been the number five, the fifth highest fundraising member of the U.S. house, whether or not they got money.

Joanna Coles (43:37)

And we're just going to have a quick grateful break for our sponsors.

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Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (45:45)

See terms.

Joanna Coles (45:49)

And I'm back with the Texas congresswoman, Jasmine Crockett. Okay, so let me ask you another question. Last week we had Congressman Seth Moulton on from Massachusetts and he said that the Democratic Party just lacked leadership at a national level. What's your perspective and who do you think are the candidates that are beginning to emerge if you were a betting woman for 2028 to lead the party.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (46:17)

Yeah, that's tough. I'm going to tell you why I'm going to say that. That's tough. I think that there, there is a void right now. I will say that. And I, and I will say that there's a void not because I'm personally saying it, but because like, if the people are like, who's our leader? Like we don't see it, then that, that is, that is what it is. Right. So I did a podcast with Brian Tyler Cohen. We did a live recording in California. And that was one of the main questions that came up. And honestly, it's come up as I've traveled the country before I got into this race. And so what I will say is that I don't think we are adjusting to the leadership style that we need to be responsive to. I think that there are a lot of people that are. It kind of goes back to your point that are very traditionally trained politicians and trying to figure out how to adjust in this moment. It is not as easy for some people. I think whoever figures out how to pivot best is going to emerge as the leader. I think that there are those that have argued that, at least from a social media standpoint, Gavin has been able to do that. Right?

Joanna Coles (47:33)

Gavin Newsom, the governor of California.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (47:35)

Yes, I think that there are those that argue that from a social media standpoint, but it's going to take more than social media. Right. So I will say that, you know, the vice president has stayed out for sure out front with her book tour and is touching people. I think it is going to come down to, you know, when we go through some of our most difficult times, who it is that people look to. Do you think that I don't know that there's an answer for that right now?

Joanna Coles (48:03)

Do you think that Kamala Harris would beat Gavin Newsom? I mean, they're both Californians. Do you think she would beat him in a, you know, in a debate or in a runoff for leader?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (48:16)

You know what? I have no idea, and I'm gonna tell you why. Because what's happening with our government right now, it changes just like this. I think that in any given moment, there's somebody that can shoot up and can. I mean, it may not even be either of them. Right. And my actual evidence for this, because I love to have receipts, is Mandami. Right? Like, he was not polling anywhere as it relates to, like, the mayoral in New York, and he adjusted and was able to kind of feel the environment, and he became and emerged as like, a force. Right. So I think that it's hard for us to guess what's going to happen in the future, because on any given day, somebody may emerge simply because they are able to kind of be agile in this environment.

Joanna Coles (49:09)

Right. And what do you think it takes? Because there are some Democrats who think your style is a little too in your face. There are others who just say, oh, my God, she's brilliant. She's the future of the party. If Trump isif Trump and Trump Republicans are the future of the Republican Party, then we have to meet that energy head on. I mean, the whole Steve Bannon school of just flood the zone. You do not see Democrats doing that. And it may not be effective for them to do that now, but it's hard to see who would be those people who can take on what has been arguably an incredibly effective Republican Party for the first year. Of this second administration.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (49:57)

Yeah. I think, you know, one of the things that I've stressed as I'm traveling and dealing with the Senate campaign is unity Democrats. We're big tent. Everybody got opinions. Listen. And one of the things that I would say when I was on the trail for Harris is I would. Especially if I would go to black church, and I would say, how many of y' all are married? You know, and people will raise their hands. And then I say, now, how many of you love your spouses? And they would, you know, raise their hands, and I'd say, and how many of you agree with your spouse all the time? And that's when things will get a little funny. Right, right. And I'd say, listen, you decided to love your spouse and stay with your spouse for life, and you have disagreements. I'm saying that it's okay. I will give you a permission structure. If you don't agree with this candidate on everything, and they only need you for four years, so you can dump them after that if you want to. Right. And so I think that, you know, there are a lot of people that got turned off by the Democrats because they were saying, well, there's these purity tests and we gotta do this. And if we don't do this, then, you know, they're gonna be done with us. And it's like, you will never please every single person. Not to mention, there is no perfection that is walking on this earth. And frankly, I think that my honesty and my authenticity and the fact that I don't seem like I'm like a perfect Patty, I think that that's more appealing because at the end of the day, people are like, oh, I can relate to her. And so I think that we have to focus on saying, listen, it's okay if you disagree with me, but I'm gonna be better than them over there. So I'm gonna need you to go ahead and come on in and vote for me and engage in those conversations and talk about the fact that we are a democracy because we believe in disagreement. We believe in that. Right.

Joanna Coles (51:42)

But can I just push back on that for a moment? Because you mentioned Zoram Mamdani, the new mayor of New York. He had one very clear message, which I think the Democrats have struggled with, which was just affordability. The city doesn't feel affordable to a ton of people who live here. So why can't the Democrats just hone their message around James Carville's point, which is, it's the economy, stupid.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (52:09)

Yeah. No, I think that that is Correct. Except we Big Ten party. So you, you know, if you ever were in caucus meeting, I can tell you you're gonna have. And you're talking about strong, strong personalities, right? It's like, well, in my district, it's this. In my district it's that. It's my, you know, it's like, my, my, my, my, my.

Joanna Coles (52:28)

But who doesn't. Who doesn't have affordability as a key issue in their district? Unless you're representing. Representing, you know, Silicon Valley, which has Ro Khanna, who is a Democrat, I.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (52:40)

Was gonna say, which we technically do. But. Yes, right, right.

Joanna Coles (52:42)

No, no, but. But who doesn't have affordability as the number one?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (52:46)

I don't think that there's anyone that does. I think that Democrats overthink stuff. So I agree with you. The overarching theme needs to be affordability. And then you, like, break off into your branches of, like, what matters most in your area. Because, say, if you go to Florida, then health care is hitting really big there because they have more people on Medicaid, Medicare, and the Affordable Care act, right? So, like, health care, like, maybe super duper big, right? Texas health care is super big. So you can talk if you want to. Like, I break down the cost of food, and as someone who served on the Agriculture Committee, I know about what all goes into the cost, and I've got bills that I filed around trying to bring down costs. So. So, you know, all those things and accessibility, so you can start to get other places. But, you know, getting Democrats to just say, affordability, affordability, affordability, affordability. And just at least let that be kind of the top line. We'll see.

Joanna Coles (53:46)

We'll see. All right, so you're a busy congresswoman. You're now having to wear a bulletproof vest. You're not yet married. What do you do in your spare time? What are you reading? What are you watching on television? What are you. Are you at the gym? What are you doing?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (54:02)

You just made me sound like the biggest loser on the face of the planet.

Joanna Coles (54:07)

Well, I don't think so. You're running for more power. You're running for the Senate. You're running for the U.S. senate.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (54:14)

No. I will tell you that some of my best friends are typically the ones that are most concerned. So they will call my scheduler and be like, you're going to block off this time? And they'll take me to dinner or they'll take me to. Or we'll just do like a girls day. My friends know that I love Broadway, so if We've got, like, a short weekend in D.C. then I may go from D.C. up to New York and we catch a show.

Joanna Coles (54:44)

What can you recommend? What have you seen recently that you love so well?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (54:49)

The most recent show I think that I saw was actually Little Shop of Horror, but that's a whole other issue. That's a very specific show to me. There's a cute story behind it, but no, it is actually Hell's Kitchen. Hell's Kitchen is my favorite show. It's done by Alicia Keys, and it's about her growing up in New York. And one of my childhood friends from elementary school, she was actually in the show, and so I was able to go and see her in the show. And now she's moved on to another show that is going to be coming out that's about tlc, the music group. So really excited to go and see that. But Hell's Kitchen by far is one of the best shows on Broadway right now.

Joanna Coles (55:33)

Okay, and what are you reading? What is the book by your bedside?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (55:37)

Questionnaires.

Joanna Coles (55:39)

That doesn't sound very relaxing. That doesn't sound.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (55:42)

It's not relaxing at all. I mean, the last thing that I picked up was the Vice President's book.

Joanna Coles (55:48)

Okay. And did you finish it?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (55:49)

I did not, no.

Joanna Coles (55:52)

Okay. All right, well, listen, I know you have to get back. You've got to do voting, whatever you've got to do. You've got more questionnaires to read. But love talking to you. I hope that you will come back and give us an update on what's happening with your campaign.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (56:07)

Yeah. 49 days. It's over. I think it's 49.

Joanna Coles (56:10)

I'm counting down the days. In 50, 50 days, you have to come back and give us a sense. And let me ask you one more question. You probably see Donald Trump around the place. What?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (56:22)

I've never seen him a day in my life.

Joanna Coles (56:24)

You've never seen him a day in your life? You've never actually been in the same room as him?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (56:29)

State of the Union. So, I mean, that counts. We're in the same room.

Joanna Coles (56:33)

Have you ever had a conversation with him?

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (56:35)

No. Never met him. Never met Donald. And the only time we've ever been in the same room is for the State of the Union address.

Joanna Coles (56:43)

Okay. I was going to ask you what you thought of the state of his health.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (56:48)

Oh, I've sent off letters and tried to start investigations into it. I've talked to actual medical doctors that I'm friends with and asked them questions based on kind of what they could see There are a number of medical professionals that believe that he is in bad, bad shape and that, like, very, very, very, very, very bad shape. So I'm just watching.

Joanna Coles (57:14)

You're just watching. Jasmine Crockett, thank you very much for joining us. Can't wait to see what happens in your campaign. And you have to promise to come back and talk to us about it.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (57:23)

Yes, I will. Thank you.

Joanna Coles (57:25)

All right. And good luck out there.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (57:27)

Thanks.

Joanna Coles (57:33)

I felt like I got a completely different vision of Congresswoman Crockett than I get from some of the more, I guess, performative aspects of a politician's life. Anyway, let me know what you think. Please add a comment to YouTube. And also, I'm very curious to know what you think about whether or not Bowen, Yang and Matt Rogers on their podcast and we have the story up on the Daily Beat and they're apologizing to Congresswoman Crockett. Whether or not you think that was an organic moment or do you think a political opponent put them up to it? And if there is a political opponent who put them up to it, who would that be? I thought that was a very curious. A curious moment.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (58:15)

Joanna.

Joanna Coles (58:16)

Hi.

Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (58:16)

I have to tell you about something that we're obsessed with. I'm Kevin Fallon. And I'm Matt Wilstein. And we are hosting Obsessed the Pot about all the TV shows, movies and entertainment newsmakers that we're all obsessed with. So make sure you subscribe to us on YouTube at the YouTube channel. Make sure you follow us wherever you get your podcasts. Just search for Obsessed the podcast and we will see you there.

Joanna Coles (58:41)

Be beast. Big thanks to our special bebeast tier of members. Here they are. Yvette Johnson, Me Thinks Batsio, Farrell Mills and Lynn's Shelby. Max Cubitt, David Sherry, Thomas Moore, Maria Voltaine, Dee Huger Watts, Cynthia Lund, John H. Overocker, Deb K. Ostrander, Sandra Clark, Travels with Carl, Andrew Beaver, Capinator, Harry Clark, Dawn McCarthy, Daniel dog lover M. Griner, Dye Stone Fulvia Orlando Herbie, Andrew Mellor Tattnall, Val Love, Francisco, Will Hutchison, Andrea Hodel, Bocock, D.C. sharon Shipley, Connie Rutherford, Karen White and last but never least, Heidi Riley. And a big thank you to our production team, Devon Rogerino, Ryan Murray, Heather Passaro and the Simpsons writer Nell Scovel.

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Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett (61:16)

Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily Beast podcast@thedailybeast.com podcasts if you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and subscribe. Support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to thedailybeast.com membership/podcast and sign up today.