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- [00:00]
A
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full terms@mintmobile.com Some follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money. Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swings, there's a money side to every story. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe now@bloomberg.com
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B
the word for this in politics is free fall. This guy is in uncharted territory. The price of energy is up. The price of food is up. Job production in the United States is in a lousy place. Trump and his billionaire buddies are saying to the key parts of their base, we'll set up an autocracy. You'll get to keep your jobs and we'll advance your racist white nationalist agenda if you just allow us to keep stealing money and and enrich ourselves and pass tax bills that help billionaires and screw everybody else. And that's the deal. Racism for Grift
- [01:37]
A
welcome to the Daily Beast Podcast. I'm Hugh Doherty. I'm executive editor of the Daily Beast. I am privileged to be in the chair for Joanna Coles. We have got a great guest coming up. It is the indispensable and inimitable global affairs columnist for the Daily Beast, David Rothkoff. Before we get into the show, please take a moment, share this podcast with your friends and invite them to subscribe to our YouTube channel. We are closing in on 700,000 followers. With your help, we can get to a million. And it's thanks to everyone who has subscribed and been part of the Daily Beast family that we have such amazing guests. So please help us spread the word. Now, David Rothkoff is our chief global affairs columnist and we've got so much to talk about with him. We're but one thing I will just tease, he has a new nickname or a new insult from the White House. David, thank you for joining us. David Rothkopf, welcome back. It's Monday. It's a perfect day to discuss. Well, there's so many things we could discuss. Let's talk about Some polling that we have been seeing in the last couple of days, and this morning, it was a pretty disastrous poll for Donald Trump. His approval in the New York Times Sienna poll, which I should say is regarded as one of the absolute gold standard of polls, is down to 37%. That's not a lot, is it? And it's a pattern.
- [03:10]
B
Well, yeah. I mean, it's bad, though. I mean, the result in this poll are on the cost of living. 69% disapprove underwater. 42%. On the war in Iran, 65% disapprove underwater. 34%. On the Israeli Palestinian conflict, 62% disapprove underwater. 31%. On the economy, 64% disapprove underwater. 31%. On immigration is strong suit, his best subject in school, 56% disapprove. Underwater, 15%. And overall, on his job as president, as you say, only 37% approve. 59% disapprove. That's underwater 22%. The word for this in politics is free fall. This guy is in uncharted territory, and he's got nothing. Everything that he's trying. I'm gonna go to China. I'm gonna distract with that. I'm gonna talk about my ballroom. I'm gonna go and build a golden statue. I'm gonna do this. Nothing's working for Donald Trump. And it's a political disaster scene. What I find kind of weird, and maybe Hugh, you have some insight into this as a kind of de Tocqueville, like, visitor from foreign shores to America, is why the Republicans are still lining up with this dude. Because we did have a primary over the weekend in which Dr. Bill Cassidy lost because Trump hates him and some pro Trump people did better. And that's like, in Indiana. And this guy is like an anvil around the neck of the Republican Party. And yet they're like, oh, yes, sir, boss, we're in line. We're doing whatever you say. What is that about?
- [05:13]
A
Well, I wish I knew. First of all, I'd have published a much more. I'd have published a successful book like de Tocqueville did, and I would have things named after me as well. But we're going to have a big test on Tuesday of this question over the Republican Party and Trump, because Thomas Massie, who has been a consistent thorn in Trump's side over the Epstein files, is fighting a primary in his district of Kentucky against a very strongly endorsed Trump candidate. And this question is going to be, this is a referendum, really on where's the Republican Party now?
- [05:57]
B
Well, yeah, it's a reference. I do think we need to caution everybody here. The New York Times, CNFO is correct. Trump is opposed on most issues by a supermajority of Americans, by two thirds of Americans on most issues, on most of his policy initiatives. So he is in bad shape. What we're seeing in primaries, of course, is the most active Republican voters and what their view is. But they have demonstrated on a regular basis that they are out of step with the rest of the country. And so whether Massie wins or loses, Cassidy wins or loses, the Indiana people win or they lose, this is still only the primaries. And they've got to get to the general election. And they got some problems between now and the general election, which is nothing. Looks like it's going to get better. We are no closer to solving the war in Iran. The price of energy is up. The price of food is up. The job production in the United States is in a lousy place. There was just a poll last week in which 70% of Americans don't believe it's likely that they will ever own a home. This country is being squeezed. And so to the Republicans and to maga, enjoy this last moment of thinking what you're doing works. Because I think if the general public gets to vote, and of course, there is an if there.
- [07:34]
A
You used the word if pointedly.
- [07:38]
B
I think we're sort of stripped down to core MAGA proposition right now. And what that is is Trump and his billionaire buddies are saying to the key parts of their base, we'll protect you because we'll destroy democracy. We'll set up an autocracy. You'll get to keep your jobs and will advance your racist, white nationalist agenda if you just allow us to keep stealing money and enrich ourselves and pass tax bills that help billionaires and screw everybody else. And that's the deal. Racism for grift, that's the core proposition of the Trump era. Authoritarianism for wholesale corruption. That's the exchange that's taking place.
- [08:41]
A
But let's talk about what many people are going to, I think, quite sort of justifiably be talking about in terms of grift, because as we are recording this, Trump has told a court, this is a kind of complicated story. Trump, as a private individual, has been suing the IRS over the leak of his tax returns. And he had been claiming $10 billion in damages. He had kind of difficulty in the courtroom because the judge, Kathleen Williams, a federal judge down in Miami, pointed out that he was suing effectively himself. That as the private individual was suing the executive branch. And the President is, in his own view, the executive branch, just a bit problematic. Anyway, he's agreed to drop this $10 billion. And it appears that the agreement on the table that he has made with himself is for a $1.7 billion fund which will go to people who are described as being victims of the Biden Justice Department. So it seems like a very naked. I think people used to call this a slush fund. Once you're up to 1.7 billion, slush seems a bit of a minimization. But this looks like Supermarket Sweep or something, going round the aisle and getting the money.
- [10:18]
B
Well, I just think we need to appreciate the moment that we're living in, because Trump promised a golden age and we're getting one. This is a golden age of corruption in the United States. And Donald Trump is a corruption genius. Every single day he wakes up, does he think about us, the well being of the United States, the well being of the planet, the future of our kids? No. But you know, why give him a break? Because what he's really thinking about is new ways to monetize being president. He'll sell phones, he'll sell watches. He'll sell paraphernalia from West Palm Beach Airport. He will do deals with foreign governments. He will do deals so his sons cash in on contracts at the Defense Department. He will build monuments to himself. He will come up with new ways to steal money every damn day. And this was pretty bold, launching a lawsuit against himself, being on both sides of the lawsuit and trying to get $10 billion out of the US government to give to himself. That was bold. The court, the judge called him on it. And so now, as many expected, he has withdrawn the lawsuit. But we don't know the terms of the settlement, if it is, in fact $1.67 billion to go to his allies. First of all, typically when he does things like that, it never goes to where he says it's going, right? It ends up in his pocket, somebody else's pocket converted into something else. So that's part of it, but another part of the settlement that was floated last week. And typically when the White House floats this stuff, they're trying to sort of prepare the public for the deal was that his past audits by the IRS would be dropped and they would agree never to audit him or his kids again.
- [12:26]
A
Oh, and we should point out, by the way, he's suing over the leak of his tax returns. Every previous president for many, many years had given us their tax returns without needing to have them leaked. So the whole premise of this was based on his failure and in fact, his failure to meet his own promise to hand over his tax returns.
- [12:50]
B
Well, he did say he was going to hand them over when his audit was over.
- [12:53]
A
And now his audit appears. It's possible that the settlement involves his audit being over. So, hey, maybe we're going to see the tax return.
- [13:00]
B
Daz. You know, Hugh, you are a legal genius. And I want to see you at the next White House press conference with, I assume you have credentials sitting in the front row going, okay, you said you'd give us the tax returns when the audit's over. There's not gonna be an audit. When do we get to see the tax returns? It would be a beautiful, beautiful moment.
- [13:22]
A
It would be. I mean, it is a very apt question. Actually, we're going to come later on in this podcast. We do want to talk about the White House Press Office.
- [13:32]
B
Oh, yeah, okay. Why do you want to wait? Why don't you just bring it up now, Hugh?
- [13:38]
A
Well, I think I was going to say it's worth waiting for. But let me read you the words of Stephen Cheung. The White House Director of Communications has previously insulted you just to.
- [13:53]
B
Twice previously.
- [13:54]
A
Twice. Twice previously insulted you as a no name nerd, and then you were upgraded to a cuck. You now have.
- [14:03]
B
Yeah, okay. This got folks with the Scottish accent. We've gotta be a little clear. What he said was cuck. Okay, I did it.
- [14:12]
A
C U, C, K. C U C K. Yeah.
- [14:16]
B
Thank you.
- [14:16]
A
And for anybody in the comments, I am proud of my Scottish accent, but I am aware that there are some words that might need some clarity, and that is, I have no shame in that. Anyway, Stephen Cheung, whose picture we now have on screen, says of David Rothkoff. David Rothkoff plays pretend as a foreign policy expert, but in reality, he's just a loser who is jealous of President Trump and the rest of the administration. We do consequential work while he sobs in front of the computer screen with an empty tissue box to catch his tears of sorrow. And we will make those words available on screen for those who have missed because they're hearing David Rothkoff sobbing his tears of sorrow.
- [15:07]
B
That's so hurtful, Stephen. We meant so much to each other. We've spent so many great hours together. I've never met you and I don't want to meet you, but I have to say there are things I am insecure about. Okay? There are plenty of them. I'm a Jewish guy from New Jersey Basically, all I have are things that I'm insecure about. But the one thing I'm not insecure about is being a foreign policy expert at 30 years in, having been the editor of Foreign Policy magazine, having had a senior job as an official in the US Government dealing with international issues, having been the managing director of Kissinger's. I know it was a mistake, but I was in my office, was next door to Henry Kissinger's office, having written a bunch of books, having taught foreign policy at Columbia for many years, but also at Georgetown and at Johns Hopkins School of International Affairs. There are a lot of things I'm not, but I actually do know something about foreign policy. Steven, Sorry, sorry to say that. Sorry to sound defensive. You really did cut me to the quick and it really does hurt me. But on the other hand, and look at it from this perspective, Hugh, most administrations don't devote this kind of personal attention to each of us.
- [16:28]
A
Well, I was going to say actually that hurtful as these comments may have been, it's not really what you think the business of government is, is, is to spend time thinking up individual insults for people who, well, I mean, there's 300 and what are there, 350 odd million Americans.
- [16:53]
B
I'm one of the lucky ones and
- [16:54]
A
you are one of the lucky ones. But this is not the business of government, is it?
- [16:58]
B
Well, I mean, there is a theory that the director of communications at the White House is supposed to be focused on communications, getting the word out to the American people of things like, well, why are we fighting this war? What actually got done on that China trip? Or what is the president's settlement on this deal that he's cut with himself on the irs, or when will we see the president's tax returns or when will they release the Epstein files? But you see, they don't like to do that stuff because it's the least transparent administration in American history of it's the most oriented towards obfuscation and obstruction of justice that has ever exist. They like to focus on two things, and one is going after the press head on. And moments before he put out this tweet, he screamed at David Sanger on the plane coming back from China and said he was a traitor because this was Trump, by the way, screamed at him, said he was a traitor for not revealing the truth about Trump's great military victory in Iran. He screams at poor Kaitlan Collins and some of these other journalists on a regular basis. What I don't understand if we can be serious about this for A second is, I know why I take it. I wasn't in the room with the guy. If the guy said that to me, I would respond. But most of these journalists, when the President says this to them or he abuses them, they take it and they then don't get together and respond. Where is the White House Correspondents Association? Why did they allow them to do this? Why don't they? I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about all these other real life reporters who are subject to attack. It's all part of a big plan, however. And the big plan is to create as much space as possible for the lies of the President and the lies of the President's supporters by clearing away what they consider to be the distractions and underbrush of facts and truth. And that's why they are the most anti free press administration that we have ever seen. They have been the most egregious in terms of their attacks on the First Amendment that we have ever seen. But you know something, Hugh, if you allow me to change the subject, another element of the First Amendment has to do with no establishment of a religion.
- [19:42]
A
I was very much hoping we would get to this because this has been an extraordinary weekend and an extraordinary weekend in Washington. And I know you're down there in the center of the swamp, soaking it
- [19:57]
B
all in here at the swamp.
- [19:59]
A
And this weekend in Washington was just, again, it's 250 years of the United States and there are various events that are going to have been planned to celebrate this. The cinquentennial, if I said that right, the cinquentennial of the United States. But Sunday was quite a remarkable event.
- [20:24]
B
Yeah, well, because for a long time, right wing evangelical Christians have been trying to gain access and power and control over the U.S. government. And they've been quite successful. They've done it on a stake basis and they've now got some of their people in key positions in the government. Pete Hegseth being an example. Mike Johnson, speaker of the House, being another example. And because they finally got this, and because Trump's base is falling away everywhere except these supposedly holy people, they actually got the White House to co sponsor with them a essentially evangelical tribute to America. And something that essentially said America was founded by, for and of people who share their religious views, who, you know, love Jesus and view Jesus in the way that they do. And Hagseth made remarks by video there. Trump, of course, also appeared by video because he was golfing.
- [21:48]
A
And in fact, we have the clip and it's worth watching. I was going to say that it's the word of Trump.
- [21:58]
B
In fact, the word of Trump.
- [22:01]
C
And the Lord appeared to Solomon by night and said to him, I have heard, heard your prayer, and have chosen this place to myself for a house of sacrifice. If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people, if my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land. Now my eyes shall be open and my ears attent to the prayer that is made in this place.
- [22:46]
A
So just to point out, that sounds
- [22:50]
B
like a threat to me, but go on.
- [22:52]
A
There was a lot of sniffing and there's a lot of what our technical production staff tell me are called jump cuts, where you are slicing things together. Because the reading didn't quite go right.
- [23:03]
B
Yeah. Presumably it's also. If there is a just God somewhere, they had to do jump cuts every time a lightning bolt nearly hit him from heaven. Because this is the most ungodly man ever. I'm surprised he didn't modify it, because when he'd said, and I command you to build upon this place, I was pretty sure he was about to say, well, a ballroom.
- [23:29]
A
A ballroom. In fact, there was a preacher who celebrated that it taken 200 years for the Lord to bring, or 250 years for the Lord to bring along a man who would build this ballroom in the White House, which, I don't know.
- [23:46]
B
Hallelujah.
- [23:47]
A
Hallelujah.
- [23:48]
B
Halla fucking luya. You know, praise.
- [23:50]
A
Praise be.
- [23:51]
B
Praise be to the God of boondoggles and bad taste.
- [23:57]
A
But it just. I think the really serious point here is about the out of touchness of this. Right. This event was supposedly. And let's just be clear, by the way, I don't think either I or David are wanting to attack the idea of religion. You know, we've talked about being Jewish.
- [24:16]
B
You're not. You're not, certainly.
- [24:19]
A
Well, but people of faith have a stake in the country. Sure. But this was a micro focused group of people and not even that many turned up, but it was all about the messaging for one really sort of absolutely core group of the Trump base. It was not a celebration of 250 years. And this kind of goes to the whole. The out of touch point.
- [24:47]
B
Well, I think it goes to a different point also. It's almost as if the Trump administration is celebrating the 250th anniversary of the founding of this country by serially attacking the principles on which it was founded one by one. One of them is separation of church and state. Another of them is freedom of speech. Another that they've attacked earlier this year is freedom of assembly, the ability of people to vote. The other elements of the Constitution, including the right to due process, has also been attacked by them. This year. They've gone after some of the amendments that came in the course of the past 250 years, like the 14th amendment and so forth. So one by one, rather than celebrating the achievements of this country by saying, we began with high aspirations and we will seek to go further, embrace more people, strengthen our country, fulfill the ideals that underlay the founding of America, we have a very cynical carving away of these principles. And I think on this principle of separation of church and state, they're not that interested in that. If Donald Trump thought he could create a national religion and it would help him stay in office, he'd do it. Pete Hegseth for sure would do it. Marco Rubio ran his whole campaigns around posting Bible verses. They love mixing these two things together because they think it makes them beyond criticism, that criticism of them becomes criticism of God. Interestingly, this is the administration that said the Pope should stay out of politics. And yet they are bringing evangelical pastors into politics in a wholesale way. And that underscores the point as well. They're not for all religions. They don't much like Catholics. They don't much like Jews or Buddhists or people who are of Hindu extraction, or people who are atheists or agnostic. They like people who will vote for them and are willing to give them a little bit of an edge, a little bit of a lift by associating their sect with this government. But this is what happens in other authoritarian states, where people who want to remain in power find groups that will support them no matter what in exchange for a little bit of a SOP like this kind of an event on the National Mall. It's gross, and it is completely contrary to the principles on which this country is founded.
- [28:01]
A
Just to kind of widen it out as well, focusing on this micro group or the evangelical group, it takes us back to the polling point. The polls say that there is overwhelming distrust, dislike, disapproval of the policies and actions of of Trump and his administration. So he seems to be focusing on this one group that will go along with it. But how long does that last for?
- [28:33]
B
Donald Trump doesn't believe in anything. He has no ideology except for the ideology of Donald Trump, and he is willing to treat everything as a transaction. In fact, I think I misstated that. He can only treat things as transactions. That's the only way he knows how to view the world. And so what he is doing is he is finding groups that will support him and he will give them whatever they want in exchange. So, for example, during the campaign, you remember when he said to oil and gas execs, give me a billion dollars. I will give you all the policy that you want to support your stuff. That's what he's doing to other people who give money. They give money to him. He gives them pardons, he gives them appointments in the government, he gives them the kind of deals that they want. And for some of these groups, he'll say, well, in exchange for supporting me, in exchange for supporting the Republican Party, in exchange for supporting some of the ways that we are attacking the right to vote in America or other fundamental rights, if you support me, I will then lift you up and embrace you in a way that no other administration in US History would. And Trump's been extraordinary in this. Think about how many times we've seen pastors in the Oval Office laying on hands, treating him as though he was a Christlike figure. And then, of course, we have him in his social media depicting himself as a Christ like figure. And that would be blasphemy, except to these groups. It's like he's sending them a message, which is, I'm with your program. You know, I'm your golden calf. Worship me and I will give you whatever you want.
- [30:38]
A
And they, in fact, excused the worship of a golden Trump statue, which looked like a straightforward. You know, that commandment's pretty simple. I would have thought.
- [30:50]
B
The one about having no idols before me. That one.
- [30:53]
A
Yeah, that one. That one. That seemed like a simple breach, but. But apparently that was okay, according to some of the evangelicals who said, no, no, no, they're just showing respect. Also, technically, wasn't a gold statue because it was only gold plated, which kind of, you know, on brand. But.
- [31:17]
B
Steven Chung's gonna come after you, Hugh.
- [31:21]
A
I fear, David, that I am nowhere near you. On the. On the Stephen Chong ometer that I will say he has described our great reporters as, among other things, glue sniffing and glue sniffers and crackheads.
- [31:41]
B
Well, didn't Caroline Levitt say something like, the only way she can survive is if she doesn't think about the Daily Beast when she goes home?
- [31:50]
A
Yes, and obviously she's on maternity leave.
- [31:54]
B
But why, why is the Daily Beast getting to these people in a way that other people don't seem to be getting to them, like what's eating at them.
- [32:04]
A
So I do, I actually have a slight theory and I don't want to sound too self important. And by the way, I am, as everybody will know, I'm just stepping in for Joanna. This is not a coup. This is not a temu Joanna. She will be back. But I think one of the things is that we, and especially you, David, have been willing to.
- [32:23]
B
No, I'm going to refer you as Timu Joanna from now on. But, yeah, go on.
- [32:28]
A
We have been willing to speak about Trump's physical and mental state in a way that others have not. And I give a huge amount your back catalog on this is fantastic.
- [32:40]
B
Well, I think no one, no one in America has done more to make America aware of Donald Trump's cankles than you have, Hugh. You are gonna win a Pulitzer Prize for cankle journalism and you are gonna deserve it.
- [32:59]
A
I represent a team here. We have reporters who cover this. But we have been willing to talk about this. And I say that because there's a very long and I will say excellent piece in the Atlantic today by Jonathan Lemurie, who is also on Morning Joe, and it's headlined A Different Kind of Fading. President Joe Biden became quieter while Donald Trump Grows even louder. And it is a list of the many, many things that we have observed in the Daily Beast. We've been willing to report on about falling asleep, about the cankles, about his swollen ankles, about gnarly hands, his hands, about the bruises, about the deranged midnight posting sprees. There is finally a willingness to talk about this. And I think if I'm going to give us a tiny bit of credit, the White House has been very concerned about this because this underlies everything about this presidency. That Donald Trump is 79, he's going to be 80, and that his physical and mental state is something that the country can see. There are legitimate questions over. And we are willing to ask those questions, which.
- [34:10]
B
Yeah, no, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I agree. And we started looking at the polling data, and the polling data says politically he's in freefall, but physically and mentally, he's also in free fall. And we saw this in China. He can't stay awake. He could barely stand up next to Xi Jinping. He is shrinking. He is lashing out at people. He lashed out at people on the plane. And I think there is something to this. When people get older, they begin to decline in different ways. And the way Joe Biden began his decline, obvious to all of us, was slowing down, becoming a little bit more quiet, becoming a little bit less able to remember things or to communicate as he had for most of his life. Donald Trump is showing signs of something else, and that is that when people go into dementia, they lose the ability to filter what they're going to say. They lash out at people, and that's what we're starting to see from this guy. And I think a lot of people in the White House, and I've talked to people in the White House, I've talked to people on Capitol Hill. I think a lot of people are worried because these trends don't get reversed, and they're worried that over the course of the next several months, you're gonna see a more unhinged Donald Trump, a more angry Donald Trump, a more unfiltered Donald Trump, a more unfit to be president Donald Trump, simply because the clock is ticking, he is declining. And this is all happening at the same time that he's in political freefall. And so he's desperate. He's desperate. He's desperate to hold on to being the guy he used to be. He's desperate to hold on to power. He's desperate to keep away the investigations and the impeachments and the potential convictions that are lurking out there. And he's desperate, you know, not to lose himself as a human being. And all of these. I mean, it is Shakespearean. It's like Greek tragedy. This is the kind of dramatic story of a leader that, you know, you could have expected in literature. The sad reality is we have to live through it.
- [36:39]
A
I'm trying not to end on a bad note, on a down note, but we could not ask for a better person to live through it with. We could not ask for somebody who crying more tears of sorrow.
- [36:51]
B
Obviously, that's why that my tissue box is empty. Because.
- [36:54]
A
Because we will. Because we will send you.
- [36:56]
B
And I'm jealous. I wish I were like Stephen Chung. Speaking of Steven Chung, have you looked at his cankles? Because I got to tell you, I got to tell you, whatever Cankells Donald Trump has going on, I'm willing to bet you Steven Chung has a worse cankle accent going on, which is why he always wears extremely long pants.
- [37:17]
A
Go look it up as information for everybody to use. David, thank you for joining us, and thank you for taking that abuse from the White House.
- [37:27]
B
It's my pleasure. It's my privilege. My family is prouder of me, and I hope you too are prouder of Mayhew.
- [37:34]
A
We absolutely are. Thank you for being with us. What a pleasure to speak to David Rothkopf as it always is. You can read his columns on thedailybeast.com just want to say a personal word of thanks. Many of you have sent messages of support for Joanna. I know she is feeling all your support and some of you have even sent messages of support for me. I'm merely a stand in. But who is not a stand in? Our brilliant production staff, Ryan Murray, Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many Beast Tier members now there are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.