Joanna Coles (2:06)

I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast Podcast and back by popular demand, a man who has opinions on everything. Which is great because everything is going on right now. We have troops in cities. We have. Is Jimmy Kimmel on the air? Is Jimmy Kimmel off the air? No, he's back. There's so much going on right now. It's a very strange and alarming time to be in America. But someone who always makes me feel that there is an answer and things will get better is none other than the former White House communications director, Anthony Scaramucci. He is, of course, the founder of Skybridge Capital, but he also worked for Donald Trump during his campaign and then during. Trump won as a very important person in the transition, bringing in all sorts of people. Of course, now he says that that was a terrible mistake, but he has a brilliant point of view on how Trump operates, and he's full of thoughts about who is to succeed Trump. We ended up having a wild ride of a conversation which went in all sorts of directions I wasn't particularly expecting, but I found it stimulating and very optimistic, actually. So if you're feeling bleak about the state of the world, which I do understand, I hope you will feel more optimistic at the end of our conversation. Let's get into it. Anthony Scaramucci, so good to have you back. I want you just to tell our audience why you couldn't do the podcast last week, because you were in Italy with your daughter. And what was your daughter doing?

Anthony Scaramucci (3:42)

Yes. So my daughter is an opera singer, and she's actually here in New York right now preparing for tonight, but she was on tour with Andrea Bocelli in Italy. And so my wife and I went over there to see her and to obviously support her.

Joanna Coles (3:57)

I thought, as excuses go. And I called you to say, anthony, we have to have a conversation. The world is on fire. You were like, darling, I'm in Italy. My daughter is performing with Andrea Pucelli, and I just thought you. Okay, let him out. Let him.

Anthony Scaramucci (4:11)

I wasn't really trying to brag about it as much as I'm marveling at it. You know, I think it's a. It's a. It's a wonderful thing for her and it's well deserved. But, yeah, the goal is to get her. The goal is to get her into a voice situation in a Disney animation. So let's see if that ever happens in her life. But that's. That's one of her life's dreams.

Joanna Coles (4:29)

The goal. The goal of every parent is to get their child into a paying job, Anthony, as long as they're financially independent and hopefully the bigger, the better.

Anthony Scaramucci (4:37)

Exactly right. The artists have a little bit harder time than that. You and I both know, Joanna, but let's.

Joanna Coles (4:43)

We both know. We both know. Although your. Your hedge fund is doing just fine, but listen, I wanted to talk to you because there's been so much going on since we last talked, which was about a month ago. And I think a lot of people think that you only worked for Donald Trump for those famous 11 days when you were White House communications director, but in fact, you were on his campaign for nine months. You were part of his transition team. So this is a man, you know. Well, you've seen him up close, and I want to get into what it's like working with him. But what I wanted to ask you first, because there's been so much discussion about his health and his state of mind, is, is this the Donald Trump that you knew?

Anthony Scaramucci (5:29)

Well, I mean, it is in some ways, and it isn't. I think it's funny that people would say that, by the way, because. So Trump just plucked me out of the public and said, come be my communicator. Of course I work for him, otherwise, how would I have gotten the job?

Joanna Coles (5:40)

But because, because the Mooch itself, Scaramucci.

Anthony Scaramucci (5:45)

Units, also on the transition team. You know, I, I, I know I helped Mnuchin and those guys build the cabinet. You know, I was on that team with Bannon and Priebus. That's how we got to know and dislike each other. Right? Because those were two of the worst people I ever met. You know, Mnuchin was great, but Priebus and Bannon were like two disasters. But, but the truth, the truth be told, it is, because this is Trump's way. You can watch interviews of him from the 1980s talking about tariffs or trade or things like that. But there is something different, because he has gotten the power drug. You know, he's got, he smoked the guangi, the crack crystal of power, and he's marveling at the fact that he can bully people that are powerful and they kowtow to him. Now, you know, Putin's not gonna do that. Xi's not gonna do that. A guy like Mark Carney, who's intellectually secure, the Prime Minister of Canada. Prime Minister, is not gonna do that. But a lot of these guys are doing that, and they're caving. And it's just a reminder to people that the bullies usually don't win because the rest of the people team up and they go after the bully, you know? But in Donald Trump's case, though, he's flexing on everybody successfully. And I know enough about his personality to know he's marveling at that. He's laughing. He's laughing at it, you know, but remember when the Witch. When the witch got hit with the water in the woods, revos what happened? The witch shrunk down. You were left with the witch's hat. That'll be the maga hat, the red hat. And then the guards around the witch said, oh, geez, I'm sorry, Dorothy. So this is a full on personality code. He's the wicked witch of the West Wing. When he eventually gets hit with the water, which will happen because it's still in a pretty amazing country. And there's a lot of people in the country and a lot of people in government that know how bad he is and know what he's doing. He's very disruptive to the constant constitution and very disruptive to the checks and balances of the country. He's going to get hit with the water. And when he goes down, then the question is going to be, okay, who's going to replace him? And I predict that there will be a fight. There will be a leadership vacuum in the Republican Party, and there'll be a fight, and we'll see what happens. You know, and I. And I want to be part of that fight. I want to be in the fight, seeing if we can break the populist hold on this party and see if we could return to something more germane and something more relevant that actually helps people. Because right now, everybody that voted for him, he is hurt. He's hurting people through the tariffs. He's hurting people with the price increases. He's hurting people with the slowdown in the economy. There's a tremendous amount of uncertainty about his economic policy. So the people that voted for him, I mean, I'm blown away. I go to these parties and they're like, yeah, lumber prices are tripled, and so the housing starts are slowed down. But he's our guy. Five years from now, the lumber in the US Is going to replace the lumber from Canada. Hey, buddy, it's not how it works, okay? You're in a fully integrated global economy, and the nonsense that Trump is spewing and the bullshit that you're listening to on Fox News aren't the facts on the ground.

Joanna Coles (8:56)

Okay, so hold on one minute. There you go. Baker, did I just hear you say that you were thinking of running for president?

Anthony Scaramucci (9:05)

No, I didn't hear that. I just want to be part of the.

Joanna Coles (9:07)

Well, you said you wanted to be part of it, but Anthony.

Anthony Scaramucci (9:10)

Joanna, I'm trying to. Joanna, I'm trying to. I'm running for reelection of my marriage. Joanna. Okay, okay. I'm just trying to stay married. Okay, Remember I almost got divorced when I was working for Trump and I missed the birth of my son. I don't know if you remember that.

Joanna Coles (9:24)

I didn't know you missed the birth of your son.

Anthony Scaramucci (9:26)

I did. See, people forget the story, but I was on the 24th of July, 2017. I was in West Virginia with the President at a Boy Scout rally. My wife and I were fighting. She was due in August. She, you know, prematurely delivered him. He's a beautiful kid. Thank God he's 8 years old. And I couldn't get back to New York even though we were fighting. You know, I was going to be present for the birth. I couldn't get back to New York. There was a no fly zone around the, the President. It was an unmitigated disaster. When I got fired from the White House, my wife had already filed for divorce, I missed the birth of my son, and I got literally burned effigy in the American and global media. And that's what your political adversaries do to you, Joanna. They create these two dimensional people. They try to flatten you and turn you into a caricature. And I've successfully blown myself back up with all my warts, all my frailty, but I've blown myself back up intellectually. And if you go into politics, Joanna, you gotta lie. You're a journalist. What do journalists want to do? They want to seek the truth, right? Ultimately, that's what you want to do. I'm a truth teller. I like telling people the truth.

Joanna Coles (10:39)

But don't you think long people are deep.

Anthony Scaramucci (10:41)

First thing you got to do is lie to everybody.

Joanna Coles (10:43)

But don't you.

Anthony Scaramucci (10:44)

I've got five kids. I don't, I don't want my kids to stay right now. My kids are like, my dad is a flawed dude. He's a big risk taker. Sometimes he's fallen on his head. He's a public figure. So when he falls on his head, the press goes crazy and they write really crazy shit about him. He hasn't, you know, he keeps going. But I don't, if I go into politics, wow, he's a, he's a, he's a liar like all these other jerk offs.

Joanna Coles (11:06)

But you've got, you know, probably been through the worst, haven't you? You've been tested by fire. There's going to be a huge new ballroom where your five children can ride their bikes and have fun.

Anthony Scaramucci (11:17)

Yeah, right.

Joanna Coles (11:18)

Well, so when you say you want to be part of it, what do you mean then?

Anthony Scaramucci (11:23)

You know, I want to be part of the debate. I want to be part of the debate. I think, I think our generation, which unfortunately includes you and me, we fail to Western civilization. The political class in Europe that is of my vintage, has failed this civilization. Okay? We over promised, we undertaxed, we created massive deficit spending. Speaking specifically about the United States, the follies in the Middle east were very costly. Right now, to use an American sports analogy, if you'll forgive me, Osama bin Laden is winning the baseball game. It's six nothing, bottom of the seventh inning, we're the home team and we're down six nothing. Why do I say that? Well, bin Laden wrote on a bar.

Joanna Coles (12:11)

I have no idea what that sports analogy means whatsoever, but I don't see how Osama bin Laden actually is winning.

Anthony Scaramucci (12:19)

Oh, no, he won big time. Let me tell you how he won. He wrote on the dark web that the US Would overreact to our terrorist attacks. They would spend their blood and treasure, they would fight over their civil liberties, the Patriot act, and we blew a hole in our operating budget. We spent $8 trillion in Middle east, killed millions of people, tens of thousands of Western soldiers, and we got nowhere. But we've hurt ourselves and now we're divided and now we're polarized and it's led to the rise of populism. Everything that bin Laden predicted that we would do to ourselves to cause a demise of us is happening. He brought down the Soviet Union with our help. He said, now I'm going to turn the gun on you guys and you'll fight with yourselves and blow yourselves up. And we don't have any transformational leaders that will sit down and say, dudes, we're playing into the hands of our adversaries. We're letting the social media be manipulated by Russia and China. Yeah, I think, I think, I think he's, I think he, I think he is winning.

Joanna Coles (13:21)

Osama bin Laden couldn't have seen the advent of Facebook and TikTok and now the new open AI Sora that he.

Anthony Scaramucci (13:29)

Saw the overreaction of the American government to those acts of terror and which led to. And remember, Bush went to war without a tax cut. You know, it was the first time in our history, I mean, we had a, we had a small incident in 1965, but it was a much smaller war. We went to war in the Middle east without a tax cut. Moreover, we cut the taxes in March of 2001 and then he didn't restore the taxes. And it was the first time in our history with the war without a tax increase. And he blew a fiscal hole. It led to the global financial crisis. It led to over borrowing by the Obama administration.

Joanna Coles (14:08)

Well, it led to the Taliban eventually retaking Afghanistan.

Anthony Scaramucci (14:15)

Our regime change was going from the Taliban to the Taliban in 20 years and blowing 7 to 8, $8 trillion. But just remember this, okay? George Washington to George W. Bush, $7 trillion. Barack Obama, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, Donald Trump, $31 trillion. What the hell are we doing? Okay? What the hell are we actually doing? Okay? And moreover, they got the government shut down now. And so every time they shut down the government and they go to restart it, it's more costly.

Joanna Coles (14:49)

All right, so if you're going to be involved in thinking about new Republican leadership post Donald Trump, how do you want to counteract the impact of social media? The fact that our adversaries are using it extremely effectively to sow division and the fact that internally MAGA is also divided?

Anthony Scaramucci (15:12)

Well, maybe Macron is right. You know, maybe we gave too much power the social media companies whose algorithms are set up to make us combative with each other because when we have the heat, you have more listeners and you get more addiction. And maybe Macron is right that allowing the Russians and the Chinese to influence unduly or the North Koreans, these social media platforms, maybe there needs to be more regulation of the airwaves like we regulate television through the fcc. I don't know. I don't know the answer. I can tell you this though. There's no short term answer. I can tell you from my life experience that short term political situations or short term political solutions, they don't add up to much. The Chinese, which is still something from their playbook, they think in 10, 20, 30, 50 year units of time. And I don't think there's one problem in the United States that we can't solve with long term thinking. That includes entitlement spending, the budget, the deficit. It's an unbelievable country. Okay? I believe in the country's ability to adapt and flex itself.

Joanna Coles (16:25)

Again, people always say that about the Chinese, that they plan 100 years. And if you are, you know, I think the last Chinese leader was asked what he thought of the French Revolution and he said it's too early to tell. Right. That's a wonderful kind of example of how they think. But the American political system is not set up like that. The minute a president gets in, he has to start campaigning for his next term. Congress people are there for two years, so the minute they get there, all they're thinking about is raising money for their next Term, we're not set up actually to make long term decisions.

Anthony Scaramucci (16:59)

So this is where it requires entrepreneurial thinking. Right? So that's the zero. And what does an entrepreneur have to do? They have to go from zero to one. Okay? So if you think like an entrepreneur, you've got to get an entrepreneur into the marketplace to bring in the non voters. There's, as you and I have talked about on your podcast, there's 100 million people, they vote the exact same way in every single election. A very powerful voting group. It's the non voter. And what you have to do is you have to go into that market. Because these two cats, the Republicans and the Democrats, they broke the system. They created a very tight duopoly after Ross Perot scared them in 1992. They've made it impossible for third parties to enter the system. They trapped each other in their positions through gerrymandering. They allow each other to gerrymander, they accuse each other of doing it, but they're both doing it. And it ensures the electability of these incumbents. Said differently, that Congress has a 14% approval rating, slightly above Kim Il Jong, the North Korean dictator, slightly above it, but yet 95% of the incumbents get reelected. This is because of the way they gerrymander those districts. So there is systemic things that have happened that have broken the system that have now led to this widespread cynicism. But you have to get somebody out there, explain to the American people what happened. Explain why Chuck Grassley, who's 600 years older than George Washington and Nancy Pelosi's 500 years older than Marcus, Martha Washington won't leave the Congress. They won't leave. You know, and we had Dianne Feinstein, you know, Mayor Soul, rest of the Easter, wheeling her around, wheeling her around like she's in an elder care facility because they won't leave because they're addicted to the power, right? And so what you have to do is you have to break that system. So to me, I actually think younger people in their 40s should be taking on these jobs. I'm in my 60s. I'm happy to help. I'm happy to offer advice, Case. I'm happy to help people think about the long term plan that we need to fix the government, but let's get some younger people in the mix who understand where they want to take the world. Okay? And, and we can fix it, but we're not going to fix it in the current stasis. You're going to need to amend the Constitution and end Citizens United. And for your listeners outside the United States, that's a ridiculous Supreme Court decision rendered in January of 2010 that gives unlimited amounts of money supply into political causes, which has been a disaster for the country because all the legislation has skewed to big business, big pharma, tax cuts for the rich, big wealthy, and they don't give a shit about the average citizen anymore. The big beautiful spending Bill gave a $7,000 benefit if you were making over a million dollars a year and a $700 deduction in benefits if you were making less than $50,000. And by the way, by the way, 38% of the people supported it. They did. They voted on it anyway. Because look at me. That's an Italian expression. For those of you that are listening at home. I just flipped Joanna off with my chin, okay? Because that's what the politicians are doing. But you know the best thing Donald Trump has going for him the last decade, Joanna? The Democrats, That's. That's the best thing he's got going for him. They're scolds. They want to cancel everybody. They're righteous. You know, they didn't want to. They didn't want my help. I once worked for Donald Trump. How about opening the tent and redefining the party as a pro democracy, pro constitution party? No, no, we can't do that. We got to fight with each other and have litmus tests inside the party. I mean, and he laughs. My God, does he laugh at them. He thinks it's great. He's hoping Mondami wins by a landslide here in New York so that they can use Mandani's programs as a punching bag to further consolidate the hard right.

Joanna Coles (21:03)

All right, so I want to come back to Mamdani, but before we do, let's talk about some of the people in his cabinet right now, because they're clearly going to be circling each other. They're already circling each other to succeed him. Pete Hegseth's speech to the generals last week felt like a platform that he was running on.

Anthony Scaramucci (21:27)

Yeah, he's too insecure of a guy, though. I mean, you're a good student of body language, and he's a good looking guy. He's obviously in good physical shape, but he's a mental midget. I mean, he's just too insecure of a guy. He doesn't have the capability. He doesn't have the wealth of knowledge, the understanding of the American population. And he's. He's got this overbite of forceful exaggeration or to quote Trump, what the hell is he doing with his hands? Too much hand movement. So.

Joanna Coles (21:54)

Too much hand movement.

Anthony Scaramucci (21:56)

So Hegseth is out. Okay, go to the next one.

Joanna Coles (21:58)

What about Marco Rubio?

Anthony Scaramucci (22:01)

No shot. Because Marco Rubio is a weather vein. Okay? And Marco Rubio was once standing next to Jeb Bush and George W. Bush, and he was talking from a Republican Reagan esque playbook. And now all of a sudden he's maga. And people look at him with great levels of disingenuousness. He doesn't have the ability. Remember, whether you like Trump or you don't like Trump, this is what I stand for. And you create a coalition by standing for something. This was Hillary Clinton's problem. You can't be a Cub fan in Chicago and a Met fan or a Yankee fan in New York because people know you're, you know, you're bullshitting them. They don't like it. Okay? And so, Ruby. Okay, that, that one's done.

Joanna Coles (22:44)

What about J.D. vance, who in 2016 was calling Trump Hitler?

Anthony Scaramucci (22:48)

So J.D. vance looks very promising right now because he's in the lane. He just had dinner with Trump at Blair, you know, at the residence, the Naval Observatory, the Vice President's residence. And he looks very promising right now. But he will implode. He will go into the Trump wood chipper. You ever seen Fargo where they're putting the guy through the wood boats? Yeah, yeah. So that's what's gonna happen to him. Because like William Shakespeare wrote about, the old guy does not want the new guy to replace him. Trump is such a nihilist that he'd actually like the Democrats to replace him. And people say, what are you talking about? No, no, he's right. Remember, the Republican Party is successful because I. Donald Trump made it successful. Once he leaves the stage, he wants it to implode. That's what these people are like. I mean, that's their personalities. Remember, I'm not comparing Trump to Hitler, but in April of 1945, when they were sitting with Hitler, said, look, it's over. Hitler turned to his generals, okay? Michael Beschlov wrote about this 20 years ago. Hitler turned to his general, said, flood the coal mines and bring down the electrical grid in the urban areas. And they looked at him and said, what the hell are you talking about? He said, well, if we're not going to have a thousand year, right, that I'm running, I want your thing to cave.

Joanna Coles (24:02)

Right?

Anthony Scaramucci (24:03)

Okay. So people are nuts. You know, people are nuts.

Joanna Coles (24:05)

So he's going to go scorch, surf on the Republican Party rather than have anyone.

Anthony Scaramucci (24:09)

Yeah. Then, then the fight's gonna start. So anybody that you think, anybody that Trump has read about that is a quote unquote supposed successor to him, whose last name is not Trump, he will figure out a way to eviscerate over the next 36 months.

Joanna Coles (24:27)

Anthony, hold for one second. We're just going to take some messages from our sponsors.

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Joanna Coles (25:32)

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Anthony Scaramucci (28:41)

Well, listen, you know, I have to, I have to tell you that she's very impressive to me. Okay. And I, I knew Charlie and had my differences with Charlie. I surely didn't like some of the things that Charlie. But I did respect Charlie's right to say those things. And I don't think anybody should die from political violence or we're now going to shoot at each other because we don't like what each other are saying. And don't underestimate the power of Charlie Kirk. And don't underestimate the exponential support that Charlie was getting from younger people in the country. So as that power was going exponential, you know, somebody purposefully took him out. I don't think it's just, I think. Well, I think there's more to this story than we're hearing.

Joanna Coles (29:24)

But I'm part of your, part of the Charlie Kirk conspiracy that you don't think it was just Tyler Robinson.

Anthony Scaramucci (29:30)

No, I didn't say that because. I don't know. I didn't say that. I'm not a conspiracy.

Joanna Coles (29:33)

But you said you thought there was more to it than me.

Anthony Scaramucci (29:36)

I do. I think there's more to It. Because there's a. Because there was. He was going exponential. He was going exponential. A result of which when someone becomes that powerful, they're not controlled anymore. Okay, so again, I'm not. It could be the guy that killed him. And the prima facie facts are what they are. But I'm just saying let's wait for more information to unfold because there's some inconsistencies in those facts. Also, when you look at those text messages, I have finally found something that I agree with Steve Bannon on. No kid writes like that, Joanna.

Joanna Coles (30:10)

No kid ever.

Anthony Scaramucci (30:13)

I got a lot of kids. And by the way, in order to impress each other, they butcher the grammar. They don't write in clear, complete sentences. So, you know, some of the stuff I'm not 100% buying, but we'll see. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm not an anti vaxxer. I don't buy into all that bullshit. I believe in science. I know the earth has been affected by human consumption of fossil fuels. I'm not an idiot. But let's get the gun back on the bird. Erica Kirk is impressive to me. Could she run for something? Sure. Does she want to be the president? I'd say she's 36 years old. I don't think we're going to be electing somebody president at 36 or 40, but who the hell knows? The country's changing and, you know, this is the country where the impossible becomes very possible. But okay, Erica Trunk is. I'm sorry, Erica. To me and let's see, let's see how her political career unfolds.

Joanna Coles (31:12)

Would Trump ever let one of his children become president after.

Anthony Scaramucci (31:18)

He would want that?

Joanna Coles (31:19)

Oh, you think he would want that?

Anthony Scaramucci (31:20)

Yes, absolutely. No. He would want one of his children to be successor. I think Eric gave an interview in the FT that he's open minded to the idea. I think, I think they want to make money, though. I think it's very clear.

Joanna Coles (31:34)

Well, I think they're making money, aren't they? I mean, by the time Trump would be. Trump Senior would be ready to go.

Anthony Scaramucci (31:39)

Yeah. Which keep your eye on the midterms. Right. Because if, you know, Trump will go wild. You know, if he loses the House, no problem. But if he loses the House and Senate, big problem. Because then these investigations are going to be wide open and the Epstein stuff is going to be wide open. And you know, Trump could be accused of all types of emoluments clause violations and it could be quite ugly for all the things that his apparatchiks are willing to overlook, which are rule breaking. Probably wouldn't be overlooked by the people if they got control of the House and Senate. Look for Trump to be more crazy. And by the way, I'll make a prediction on your show after the midterms. Trump is going to be however crazy you think he has been in the first.

Joanna Coles (32:28)

Could he get any crazy how to get crazy here and see what can he do that?

Anthony Scaramucci (32:34)

Spend more National Guardsmen. He's going to take more money for himself. It's going to be the last two years of him being able to have a money grab in the last two years of him getting the world's attention. And he'll be 81, 82 years old. He'll be lighting firecrackers everywhere and shooting off skyrockets everywhere to set your hair on fire. You know, Trump sucks for everything. But you know what? He's great for Joanna, the podcast business girl. It's great for the podcast business, podcast business because you got people listening to you. They're like, shit, you know, Joanne is cheaper than my therapist. Let me listen to her for 35.

Joanna Coles (33:12)

Minutes, you know, well, and they like hearing people come on and paint a post Trump view too, because it reminds us that the world will continue. If there were to be, which Trump son would it be? I'm assuming it's not going to be Ivanka because she said she doesn't like politics. It's too rough of a business. And she sort of exited the stage. The two boys, Eric and Don Jr. Are, are still hanging around and obviously doing a lot of business.

Anthony Scaramucci (33:40)

I think Don Jr. Who is very well loved by the base, you know, you could see a situation where Vance recognizes that he's going into the Trump wood chipper. And Vance tries to enlist Junior's help and says, hey, man, and he goes to Trump. He said, we're going to get a Trump on the ticket. And it's a Vance Trump ticket with Don Trump Jr. That's not impossible, you know, interesting. Vance is going to have, Vance is going to have to do some things to keep himself out of the wood chipper. And I think, you know, Trump, it's got to be Trump related, you know, and by the way, remember Trump, there was a blonde woman, I got to get her name. First season Apprentice. She was doing a great job on the show and she's very well regarded. She's getting a lot of speaking gigs, a lot of speaking gigs. Trump went crazy, boom, boom, shot her and brought Ivanka in to replace her. Okay, so anybody that Thinks Trump doesn't do this. Go call Mike Pence, ask him how his political career is going. Joanne, I say, hey, Mike, what was it like to be the VP there?

Joanna Coles (34:45)

Yeah, I think we might ask Mother Pence, too, because Mother Pence had strong feelings about it. But. But also, isn't that the great skill of the brilliant television producer? It's what Shonda Rhimes always does. Just as you fall in love with a character, she has them mown down by a truck.

Anthony Scaramucci (35:00)

Exactly.

Joanna Coles (35:02)

He's very good at that. Keeping people on their toes is unexpected. And also it keeps your attention.

Anthony Scaramucci (35:09)

Conflict, conflict. We gotta have a conflict with the South African president. Gotta have a conflict with Voldemort Zelensky. Gotta have caught that. But then if you're going to be in his presence, you got to manage it. It's like Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries. They walk in, he's throwing Trump 20, 28 hats around. They got to stand up and leave. They say, okay, Mr. President, you're not being serious. Call me back when you're being serious. Call me back. But you're not being serious right now.

Joanna Coles (35:39)

Okay, so you've worked with him. How should his cabinet be handling him? Because all you see is them fawning over him. And as you say, he's laughing at their heads of industry, you say, who are doing this, too. So the tech leaders who sit for the tech dinner that he had at the White House or that was summoned into Windsor Castle, how should people exude enough independence working with him and not have to fawn all over him to keep his respect?

Anthony Scaramucci (36:13)

Those days are long over.

Joanna Coles (36:15)

Are you texting? Are you texting and nodding at the same time?

Anthony Scaramucci (36:18)

My one o' clock that I'm running late.

Joanna Coles (36:22)

You are texting and prodding at this.

Anthony Scaramucci (36:24)

I have to tell my one o' clock that I'm running late because I want to finish this conversation with you. I apologize.

Joanna Coles (36:29)

And the conversation's going in wild places. I wasn't expecting. Not least, that you're going to be involved in selecting the new candidate, which I'm excited.

Anthony Scaramucci (36:36)

I'm going to definitely put some money where my mouth is, and I'm going to definitely work with some people to see if we can rest control of this populist party and turn it back into something that's actually effective for the people that voted for it. That's all I'm saying. I know the people that voted for it because I grew up with them. I would like the party to be effective for them. And I wouldn't like them to be conned by the party where, hey, you come vote for us and we're going to give tax cuts to the rich and fat cats and corporate welfare breaks and give you nothing thing.

Joanna Coles (37:13)

Okay, so I have a serious back.

Anthony Scaramucci (37:16)

To the question that you were asking. I apologize for texting, but I had to let the guy know I was running late.

Joanna Coles (37:20)

It's fine, don't worry. I'm teasing you. Yeah, I'm teasing you. But it's always that thing when you're on zoom and you see someone's eyeline go down.

Anthony Scaramucci (37:26)

I had to do that because I gotta let the people, I gotta let people know I'm late. But, but here's what I would say to you, Joanna. You were asking a question about his successors. And unless the person's name is Trump, he doesn't give 2 cents about it. That's my point, okay? And that's been his operating system forever. It is about me. Enough of me talking about me. What do you think of me? That is Donald Trump, okay? And so you have to understand that there's one spotlight on. It's a one man show. And all those people that you asked me about, they have to kiss his ass now, because Trump, too, is about equivocating to Donald Trump and his attitude. Now, he didn't have this attitude in Trump 1, trying to work in the system, and he was trying to listen to some people. TRUMP 2 Is you kiss my ass or you leave. Kiss my ass, you leave. And they're all like this.

Joanna Coles (38:26)

How are they able to. What is the most effective way to push back against Donald Trump? We saw since we've last spoke, we had the brief Chief Kimmel moment where Kimmel was dropped and then he was back by popular demand. That felt like it might be a moment. How are you supposed to push back against Donald Trump?

Anthony Scaramucci (38:42)

What's effective, okay, so what's effective is recognizing that there is tremendous opposition. And what's effective is recognizing that he is not as powerful as you think he is. He only has power over you if you think he has power over you. Robert Harris, who is a British fiction writer. Novelist.

Joanna Coles (39:06)

Novelist. Fantastic.

Anthony Scaramucci (39:07)

He wrote a book. He wrote a book about seven years ago called Munich. And he did a tremendous amount of research for the book. It was historical fiction, but there was one piece of fact that he made very relevant in that book. The bureaucrats and the establishment governmental officials in Germany hated Adolf Hitler. Hitler. And if you looked at their notes and you looked at all of their private papers with each other, that were discovered after the war. They were expecting Chamberlain to come in and muscle Hitler, and they were ready to breach Hitler from inside. Okay? But Chamberlain came in and weakened to Hitler. And so the message to Bob Iger and others, muscle up and take the son of a. Offense on and he'll crack like the wicked wisps of the West. Okay? Don't empower him like Chamberlain. Did Hitler. Take him on.

Joanna Coles (39:59)

So what do you have?

Anthony Scaramucci (40:01)

You have to draw a line. Okay? And I'm going to tell you something very encouraging before we leave this show. When I talk to the lobbyists, okay? And I got a lot of friends that are lobbyists. You know what they tell me? Yeah. The CEO is out there kissing Trump's ass. He's sitting in the stupid, you know, circle with them and roof saying whatever the hell Trump wants. Dennis, Staff is calling me and saying, this guy's fucking nuts. Can you make this go away? Call the Congress, call the. Call the aides inside the White House. And people are underestimating the amount of money that's getting spent in Washington by the Fortune 500 and other businesses to stop Donald Trump's nonsense. Okay, well, that's all right, James. And by the way, that's gonna. By the way, also, I'm an economist, as you know, trained as a economist. Economy is going to fall off the cliff shortly because one of the things we do at Skybridge is we look at the forward shipments coming into the ports, all the flatbed trucks that are being organized and getting ready for the next six months of shipments, it's going way down, way down. And so when the economy weakens, he's going to get blamed for it. He's going to be heading into the midterms with a weaker economy, which is why he wants to jam rates down 400 basis points. But there's an opportunity here. So my message to people is, muscle up, cut the nonsense, Think like a Mark Corney. Grow a backbone the way Bob Iger displayed last week. And you'll knock this guy on his ass. But if you're. If you're going to sit there cowering in fear, if he's the president and you're not, then you're going to be in trouble. You're going to. You're going to. You're going to fulfill something about. About the situation that does not need to be fulfilled.

Joanna Coles (41:44)

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Joanna Coles (44:35)

And we're back with Anthony Scaramucci. So if you're Bill Gates and you're sitting at the tech dinner that he had, and you're you. You know, you end up up thanking the President for creating this incredible environment for everybody to come back together, and you just look like a fawning toady, what would standing up look like?

Anthony Scaramucci (44:55)

Well, they're not going to stand up because they. That's how they get to be billionaires. Okay? You don't get to be billionaires on principle, Joanna. You get to be billionaires by being equivocating and knowing how to work the system. So you're not. You're not going to expect any of those guys to stand up. What they're doing is, is they're standing up behind his family at the inauguration and they're writing checks because they don't want their companies broken up by the FTC and they don't want to have harm to them. And their wives are telling them, hey, we're on a yacht in the Mediterranean. Hello, we're on the yacht in the Mediterranean. What do you want to do? Pay the guy off? Make them go away. Okay, the people that stand up are people like you or people like me who actually don't give that much about money and are focused more on the principle and the philosophy and somebody like me that has an unconditional love affair with my country. And I've had brave people in my family fight for the country. The person I'm named after was on Normandy Beach 80 years ago, 81 years ago. I'm not going to stand up for the country, not tell people the truth about what the hell is going on. I'm not going to stand up to Trump. I mean, come on, give me a break. Give me a break. They still work for us, Joanna. We don't work for them. It's not Putin's America yet. It. Yes, sure, that it isn't. Let's make sure that it isn't.

Joanna Coles (46:07)

All right, so final serious question, because I know you've got thousands of texts coming at you and we've massively overrun, but always so much, so much fun to talk to you. Is it too late, do you think?

Anthony Scaramucci (46:18)

It's not too late because there's super smart people in the country and they know elements of the system are broken. And it's not too late because this is a country that is incredibly neurally plastic. This country adapted gaps. We. We started out with slavery. We ended the slavery. 600000 people died in order for that to happen. But we ended it. We have race in the country, certainly. Has it gotten better? It has. It's gotten better for women. It's gotten better for blacks. Okay. We have a wave of xenophobia hitting the country right now. Most people do not like it. They do not like the ICE videos of people getting detained and. And. And they don't like the violence associated with. With it. It's a good country. Most of the people in this country came here for a reason or their families came here for a reason, and we can make the place better. So I don't accept that it's over. I don't buy into the system. Moreover, I'm an entrepreneur, so I had to create a company from nothing and turn it into something over 20 years. So don't tell me from a political perspective that we cannot do that. I believe that we can do that, but we need. We need a fresher perspective. We need more honest people. If you laid out for the American people what's really going on, many of those people say, you know, I've had enough. Let's go with this slate of changes. You know, Lincoln said something great about the Americans. I think Douglas, in one of the debates said that the Americans weren't that smart. And Lincoln said, well, you're underestimating the Americans. You know what the Americans have? In the immortal words of Abraham Lincoln, they got a very good nose, and they can smell a rotting cadaver in their basement. And that rotting cadaver is this current bipartisan government and this current bipartisan political class which has got the government shut down, wildly overspending, lurching in every which direction to feed themselves at the trial of the lobbyists. The military industrial complex, big food and big pharma. And we got to put it to an end. And by the way, we got to put it to an end in order to ensure the prosperity and the further thrivability of the country. So we're going to. We got to work on that. The weird thing about. The weird thing about Trump, he's caused so much damage that he's finally got people that were generally disinterested and indifferent to politics say, okay, whoa, okay, I got to get involved somehow. I got to get involved somehow before this thing runs a monster amok, and my children and grandchildren are in a disaster zone where there's people living in McMansions, in security perimeters, and everyone else is doing poorly. We don't want that in this country.

Joanna Coles (48:54)

Okay, well, that's a very Positive note on which to end our conversation. I was going to end it on comments that people left last time you were on the podcast. In fact, I'm going to give you a couple because what was fun about them was that everybody was expecting to feel hostile to you and in fact they likes you.

Anthony Scaramucci (49:13)

So, Joanna, way about people wanting to feel hostile to me, trust me, Joanna.

Joanna Coles (49:19)

I didn't like Anthony Scaramucci before this interview. But you showed what he is really like. I like him now. You're doing a great job of helping U. S. Citizens understand what's happening to our country.

Anthony Scaramucci (49:30)

I appreciate it.

Joanna Coles (49:31)

I love Anthony, but I don't think he realizes that the rest of the world is moving on and when won't easily forgive America. Joanna, this is my favorite interview from the Daily Beast. It's novel to hear an honest, integrous, blunt, true man who shoots straight from the hip and is uninterested in painting himself in the best light. I can't wait to hear more from Amber.

Anthony Scaramucci (49:53)

Look, first of all, those are sweet comments.

Joanna Coles (49:55)

Thousands of comments.

Anthony Scaramucci (49:56)

Well, first of all, very sweet comments that I'm grateful for. But I want to, I want to go to that second comment where unfortunately, I do believe that that person is right. I do believe that we have dug a hole for ourselves. Okay, you know, if you, since we're talking about Bob Iger, ask him about attendance at Disney because the Canadians are not showing up like they've traditionally showed up. You know, I took my kids on the Disney cruise. Typical driver that always picks me up every year. How's it going? He says, no, my business down 20%. The Canadians are just not showing up at Port Canaveral or Lando. And when I travel in Europe or I travel in Asia, the damage is that there's recognizable damage. This is Putin's boy. He's been instructed by Putin to bash our allies and to make them feel insecure about their relationship, their long term relationship with the United States. And Putin's boy has helped to do that. And that means that the next group of leaders is going to have a hard time because, you know, what does Buffet say about a reputation 20 years to build, or in the case of the United States, 80 years to build. You can lose it in 10 minutes. And so that that woman or man, whoever wrote that comment is dead on Joanna. And we, we have to, we have to dig in here and work on the restoration and the renewal of what America means to the rest of the world. This nonsense that Trump is presenting, I don't really think that that's it. Ultimately, I don't think, like, Americans want to be thought of like that, but.

Joanna Coles (51:28)

We'Re dug in, right? We're dug in.

Anthony Scaramucci (51:29)

We're dug in. We're dug in.

Joanna Coles (51:31)

We're dug in. All right. I hope to see you very soon. Enjoy your.

Anthony Scaramucci (51:35)

It's always a pleasure to be on with you.

Joanna Coles (51:36)

Yeah. And please send me the. I want to see your daughter singing with Andrea Bocelli.

Anthony Scaramucci (51:42)

Okay. Yeah, I'll send that to you right now.

Joanna Coles (51:43)

Good. You know, and something.

Anthony Scaramucci (51:45)

I'm obviously a braggadocious father, so I'm literally. That'll be my next test that you'll notice that I'll be doing while I'm on zoom with you.

Joanna Coles (51:53)

Okay. But there's always something good about hearing new music. It's uplifting, and we need uplifting things.

Anthony Scaramucci (51:59)

Listen, I mean, you know, I'm an optimist for one simple reason. The country has a dynamism still, and the country is really an entrepreneur's country. Lots of risk taking for the generations to get here. Lots of risk taking. And people know that something is broken. And by the way, I'm indicting both parties here. I'm not just. Just leaning on Trump. We've got reasons why Trump rose to power, but we've also got to look at both sides of this thing and say, wow, this has really not been good for the Americans, and we can fix it. I do believe that.

Joanna Coles (52:33)

Good. We can fix it. See you soon.

Anthony Scaramucci (52:34)

Be well. Thank you.

Joanna Coles (52:36)

Bye. I love Anthony's energy and his optimism and his determination to fix it. His parents were immigrant. You heard him say that his grandfather was actually fought on the beaches of Normandy. And I also thought, referring to Robert Harris's book Munich, and the expectation that people had around Adolf Hitler, that Neville Chamberlain, the premier of Britain, the prime minister of Britain, was actually coming in to save them and to help them get rid of Adolf Hitler. And in fact, then they just solidified his position. Was also a very interesting reference, and that is a very good book. To be fair, all Robert Harris's books are pretty good. He also wrote Conclave. Brilliant timing with the film, and then the poor previous Pope's untimely death. Anyway, thank you for joining us. If you have been, don't forget, leave us a comment. But more importantly, subscribe to the Daily Beast wherever you are. We are independent media and we appreciate your support. We love reading your comments, and we do read them. I read them. Michael Wolfram reads them. Our team reads them. And they mean a lot. And also, you give us very good suggestions for points of view and also people to interview as our first lady would have us say beast. And a special thank you to our beast level of YouTube members Karen White, Heidi Riley, Connie Rutherford, Sharon Shipley, Andrea Hodel, and someone who goes by the name of freedc. And thank you to our production team as always, Devon Rogerino, Anna Von Ersson and our editor, Jesse Millwood.

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Today@Trustedhousesitters.Com hey, I'm Paige Desorbo and I'm always thinking about underwear.

Hannah Berner (55:23)

I'm Hannah Berner and I'm also thinking about underwear, but I prefer full coverage. I like to call them my granny panties.

Paige Desorbo (55:30)

Actually, I never think about underwear. That's the magic of Tommy Johns.

Hannah Berner (55:34)

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Paige Desorbo (55:38)

And the bras? Soft, supportive and actually breathable.

Hannah Berner (55:42)

Yes. Lord knows the girls need to breathe. Also, I need my PJs to breathe and be buttery, soft and stretchy enough for my dramatic tossing and turning at night. That's why I live in my Tommy John pajamas.

Paige Desorbo (55:53)

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Anthony Scaramucci (56:10)

Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily Beast podcast at the Daily Beast.com podcasts.

Paige Desorbo (56:18)

If you enjoyed this episode consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of you. Your podcast as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to thedailybeast.com membership podcast and sign up today.