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- [00:01]
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Joanna Coles
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- [01:33]
Andrew Loney
Trump and Epstein, though they'd broken contact that Epstein was making threats to expose Trump, Trump was concerned about that Epstein thought he might be given a pardon, protected by Trump. And that might explain the story of Epstein's death.
- [01:51]
Joanna Coles
I'm Joanna Coles, this is the Daily Beast podcast and today we are talking to the British historian Andrew Loney, whose remarkable book entitled the Rise and the Fall of the House of Yorks really began the unraveling of Andrew, formerly known as Prince Andrew. Now Andrew Lowney has, because he's been inundated with new information, started a substack. I signed up to it and I urge you to. It's extremely compelling. But he has two outrageous allegations this weekend that we're going to completely unpack. And I have to say, when I read them, I couldn't quite believe them. I wasn't sure, sure if they were true. They both involve, of course, Jeffrey Epstein. And we know that Jeffrey Epstein's friendship with Prince Andrew was part of the reason for Andrew's fall from grace. Anyway, you don't need me to tell you about them. We're going to talk to Andrew about them and I don't think you're going to want to look away. So let's get into it. Andrew, I can't believe how much has happened since we last talked and it was only, I think, three weeks ago. And you have in your news substack two absolutely explosive allegations which we are going to unpack. And when I say explosive, they really. They really are. We will get to them in a minute. But what I wanted you to do first was give us an update with where we are. We had some embarrassing emails of Prince Andrew coming out from the Epstein Trove of emails that came out last week. But where is Prince Andrew right now? Has he left Royal Lodge? And what are the developments since we last spoke when he just lost his title of Prince?
- [03:42]
Andrew Loney
Well, I mean, from what I'm hearing, he doesn't seem too concerned. He feels he's a free man now. He's saying he's going to go on dating apps and he's going to go.
- [03:51]
Joanna Coles
On dating apps, really.
- [03:53]
Andrew Loney
And, you know, he's still in Royal Lodge. They still haven't opened all the present, all the parcels that Sarah Ferguson ordered and hadn't opened herself. So I think they're not going to go up to Sandringham till after the New Year. And clearly, when all the Royal family have left, I'm not totally convinced he will go to Sandringham. I suspect that he may go somewhere else. We've got a private prosecution being brought by Republic. We have calls from former head of Royal security and others saying that he should be investigated both for sexual and financial irregularities. So he's clearly not out of the woods. I mean, there's been a lot of speculation about whether he might go to the Middle East. A lot of speculation about what Sarah Ferguson is going to do. Will she go to Switzerland? Portugal? Will she have a little que d' etat in London? It's been said that she's going to promote herself as a speaker for empowerment and positivity. I don't know how well that's going to go.
- [04:50]
Joanna Coles
Empowerment. How is she a speaker for empowerment? She was being funded by the world's most notorious pedophile.
- [04:58]
Andrew Loney
Well, she is a woman, you know, with her own logic, but she is a survivor. She, she, she's been, you know, she's been a, you know, pretty much, you know, a broken spirit. So particularly in 2010, when she was caught setting access to Andrew and She came back, she went on Oprah and, and people gave her the benefit of the doubt that she had. She'd repented. And I think she's going to try this again. I don't think many people think that she's a busted flush. So it's a lot of it's up in the air. I mean, there could be tensions between the King and the Prince of Wales over how this, the king's authority, I think, has been a bit diminished by the fact that he didn't act sooner, more ruthlessly, as you say. There are these lines coming out, Andrew, from the Epstein disclosures showing him to. Been panicking, really, when the story of Gifrey broke. And of course, that kind of goes against the conventional line that he was pushing that, you know, he didn't know her and he didn't know what this was all about. But of course, it confirms what I found in my research and other people have written about.
- [05:59]
Joanna Coles
For those of us who haven't gone through the emails in as much depth as you have, can you tell us exactly how he did react when it first became clear the allegations were that he'd slept with Virginia Giuffre?
- [06:14]
Andrew Loney
Yeah, well, basically, keep me out of the story. And he went to PR people, PR people to undermine Jeffrey. He tried to get information about her through his police protection officer, using his contacts with the FBI. It was all about damage, limitations and about distancing himself from the story. And, you know, he is only one of clearly many revelations that have come out with the disclosures in the Epstein files. We've got more, I think, imminent. I mean, interesting that Trump has now kind of changed his tune and is happy for the material to be released, I would say.
- [06:48]
Joanna Coles
I'm not sure if he's happy for the material to be released. He realizes that he wasn't going to win the battle to keep them suppressed. So he sort of leant into the rebels in the Republican Party, I would say. I think it's more of a political maneuver rather than. He's happy for them to be released.
- [07:04]
Andrew Loney
Absolutely right. Yeah. No, he's, he's, he, he sees that, you know, that there's no advantage in, in trying to prevent their, their release, as he has done up till now. And, and he's having to go with the mood. And I mean, thank goodness we're seeing this stuff. I think, again, we've seen the publication, of course, of Virginia Giffre's own book, Ghosted by Amy Wallace, which has been well received and been a bestseller, and I think has Again, changed the dial for a lot of people. It really brings home how awful the situation was and how entitled these people felt they were. So, as you say, there have been a lot of developments and I think there will be more. I mean, I think more people will come forward. Now, I'm certainly finding from my own research that people are coming forward, protection officers, former members of staff, ambassadors, who I think are appalled by what they've discovered and learnt, and I think also want to be on the right side of history here. And clearly that's what's motivated Trump to a certain extent as well.
- [07:58]
Joanna Coles
And there've been lots of accusations, Tina Brown made it over the weekend, that the Queen really enabled Andrew's behavior. Do you think that's fair?
- [08:06]
Andrew Loney
Yeah, absolutely. And, I mean, I was vilified when I said this in August, because the Queen, of course, was a saint and wouldn't have done anything like that. So it's great that, you know, people like Tina Brown are saying these things, but it's exactly what I found. I mean, we know that attempts were made to suppress this story. ABC Television were threatened, basically, if they went ahead, they would lose access to the royals. I know from talking to ambassadors and others that they were basically sent away with a flea in their ear when they tried to bring concerns to the Queen and her staff about Andrew. And of course, every time he seemed to be involved in some scandal, the Queen seemed to either take him with her to church or give him some new honor. So I think it was pretty apparent at the time, just no one was prepared to say it. And there was even a leak in the Sunday Times the other day, I think, by the palace, but trying to basically put the blame on the Queen for not basically sorting this problem out and handing a time bomb to King Charles. So there's a lot of. But buck passing going on at the moment.
- [09:09]
Joanna Coles
In your book entitled the Rise and Fall of the House of York, which we've talked about extensively on this podcast, you talk about a weekend in Thailand where Prince Andrew went through 40 prostitutes. I mean, subsequent reporting has also found that he appeared to have prostitutes coming into Buckingham palace with no security clearance checks whatsoever.
- [09:36]
Andrew Loney
No, absolutely. And I think Paul Page has gone public on that. He was one of the policemen on the north Gate. And I think this isn't it. This was of concern to the police because there were always people, they didn't know who they were. It was pretty clear that they were escorts. And, I mean, there were lots and lots of them coming in. And we got lots of stories of escorts, for example, in Hong Kong, he took over the top floor of the landmark hotel and entertained escorts there on, I think, a trade mission. So everyone was turning a blind eye to his activities, which is extraordinary. And I think one of the things that has really come out yet is the whole national security element of the story. We've had hints of alleged Chinese spies, but there are a lot of spies running around. This story you would have seen. It's easy to see that both Andrew and Sarah Ferguson were very easy ways into to. They were very vulnerable because of their greed, and they did have some very useful contacts.
- [10:34]
Joanna Coles
Yeah, it's absolutely fascinating. And, of course, greed does make people vulnerable, and we've seen that with members of the family time and again. So let's move on to our Andrew. Two remarkable allegations in your substack, which I couldn't believe I was reading. The second one, which we'll come onto, is that Jeffrey Epstein was actually killed. But let's look at the first one, which sort of leads to the second one, which is that Jeffrey Epstein had had enough of Prince Andrew and Fergie. He was concerned that they would perhaps spill his secrets and that he had hired a hitman to basically to remove them.
- [11:23]
Andrew Loney
Yes. I mean, this comes from two sources, one in Paris and another one in Palm beach, who were very close to Epstein. I mean, you know, Epstein said all sorts of things. We can't always believe everything he said. But I think he was getting very nervous. He thought particularly Sarah Ferguson might spill the beans on him. And this was a precautionary measure, I suppose. Now, how far he went down the line. I'm trying to get more details of that in terms of the sniper. But the sniper was British Special Forces trained.
- [11:53]
Joanna Coles
And had he actually had conversations with this particular sniper? I mean, it sounds so conspiracy theorist. I find it hard to believe. But then so much about this story is hard to believe.
- [12:05]
Andrew Loney
Exactly. No, and I was very nervous about putting it up because clearly, you know, it's an easy way of undermining my credibility. So we'll see what comes. I mean, we do know that Sarah was very concerned. I mean, that was a reason that she kind of kept in with Epstein, because she was scared of him. And I think this could have been just a threat. It could have been just as paranoia. As I said, I haven't been able to follow up the story to find any more detail, though I've been told I will be given the name of the sniper. But it is an extraordinary story. But it's, you know, as you say the story is bizarre anyway, and we're dealing with people who are not necessarily in the realms of reality.
- [12:46]
Joanna Coles
If you were a sniper actively in the special services in the uk, the idea of being commissioned by an American to kill members of the British Royal family, I mean, how on earth would he get away with it? I mean, it just seems remarkable.
- [13:04]
Andrew Loney
Well, I don't think this was a serving member of the Special Forces. As someone who'd been trained as a British Special Forces person. You know, I'm just thinking of the update of the Freddy for Scythe novel.
- [13:14]
Joanna Coles
The Day of the Jackal.
- [13:15]
Andrew Loney
And isn't that, I think, then the update, it is about an ex British Special Forces person who is basically a gun for hire. So in some ways that. That isn't that odd. It's interesting that I've got, you know, that's come from two different sources, but, you know, often that happens. It doesn't mean it's true, but, you know, it'll be interesting to see if it does bring forward anything else. In terms of disclosures, a lot of these things are rumors, and you just kind of float them and just see what happens. And maybe they have to be disregarded.
- [13:44]
Joanna Coles
Well, and in the hierarchy of people that Epstein was frightened of, I wouldn't have thought Sarah Ferguson would be very high on his list.
- [13:54]
Andrew Loney
No, I agree. But, I mean, you know, maybe she's more garrulous than the others. I don't know. I mean, I don't know what she knew that he was concerned about. But, you know, we have had, you know, these rumors. For example, moving on to the second part of the revelation, that Trump and Epstein, though they had broken contact, that Epstein was making threats to expose Trump. That was one of the stories Trump was concerned about, that Epstein thought he might be given a pardon, protected by Trump. And those rumors have circulated for a while, and that might explain the story of Epstein's death, which I think a lot of people have questioned and I question in the book just in terms of Epstein being one of the great survivors he was at the beginning of his court problems. He had always got out of them in the past by paying people off and having good lawyers. And he was not someone talking to, for example, the lawyers who were dealing with him as someone who was suicidal. And then we have all the strange things going on in the prison with the cameras not working and the guards falling asleep. We have Michael Baden's autopsy suggesting it was homicide rather than suicide. We've got former members of the correctional facility saying it was impossible to kill yourself just because of the heights and the sheets and various little things. And then, as I say, the source, which has come from a good FBI source, talking about a fellow convict who was brought in to do this.
- [15:32]
Joanna Coles
Can you explain to me how this all unfolded? So you were contacted by a former FBI agent. How did this play out? If you're, you're the historian, hugely respected historian, you have a PhD in history, how did you get this information? How did it come to you?
- [15:51]
Andrew Loney
It didn't. Didn't come to me. I went to them. I knew about a case that they worked on. I know they'd left the FBI. I approached them and they kindly, in confidence, shared some correspondence with me that revealed this.
- [16:06]
Joanna Coles
And the correspondence was between whom?
- [16:09]
Andrew Loney
Internal FBI correspondence.
- [16:11]
Joanna Coles
Internal FBI correspondence has Jeffrey Epstein being killed in his cell.
- [16:18]
Andrew Loney
That's what I was told. And this is what actually Ghislaine Maxwell also said, I think, when she was interviewed by Daphne Barak a few months ago. And it, of course, makes sense, you know, someone who has very little to lose and a lot to gain.
- [16:31]
Joanna Coles
Set the scene. What did the correspondents say, Andrew, and how was he killed?
- [16:37]
Andrew Loney
I don't know. I don't think it says that in the correspondence. From what I remember looking at.
- [16:40]
Joanna Coles
Well, were these internal emails that you saw?
- [16:43]
Andrew Loney
Yes, this was the investigation into, into this character. And there seemed to be correspondence talking about, about this particular figure and, and the, and what had happened, what he had done. But it's only a fragment, shall we say? So again, you know what, it would be useful. I know the FBI have been looking at this. I mean, it's, you know, it's kind of been passed off. You know, it was suicide, and that's been the line. But I do know that people were looking at it, and I think a lot of people suspected that, and that would all fit into the sort of his paranoia when he went into prison and the worries about Sarah Ferguson and others.
- [17:26]
Joanna Coles
So I just want to get this completely straight because I know you talked at the CHIS Book Fair this weekend and you talked about being told by FBI agents that Epstein was killed in his prison cell by another prison inmate. And you're now saying you saw correspondence, FBI correspondents that discussed this. Were they discussing it as a possibility? Were they floating it as a theory? Or were they saying they were confident this is what had happened?
- [17:56]
Andrew Loney
From what I remember, it's a little while since I looked at it, I was shown it, but it was treated as fact. This wasn't speculation.
- [18:03]
Joanna Coles
And they know. And you know, who the inmate was.
- [18:06]
Andrew Loney
Yes, there was a name there. Yeah.
- [18:08]
Joanna Coles
And why haven't you shared the name?
- [18:11]
Andrew Loney
Well, I mean, you know, I haven't got. This is the only bit of evidence I've got. I mean, clearly there are libel considerations. And, you know, given that what's happened to various people in this story, perhaps wiser I didn't share it too publicly, but, you know, at some point I hope I can. And, you know, it's still sort of ongoing research.
- [18:34]
Joanna Coles
So a lot of people are going to say Andrew Lowney's just launched a substack. He's trying to sell more copies of his book. He's now floating conspiracies that have been around. What do you say to people who are just saying this is wild exaggerations from a man who can't possibly know?
- [18:51]
Andrew Loney
Well, I'd like to be able to follow up on this as soon as I can. I mean, this story has slightly run earlier than I expected, and the decision was taken by people doing my substat that we would release it when I was waiting to do more research.
- [19:03]
Joanna Coles
But didn't you say it when you were actually at the Chiswick Book Fair? So you sort of put it out into the world.
- [19:08]
Andrew Loney
I did, and no one picked it up, so I thought it was okay.
- [19:13]
Joanna Coles
So no one picked it up. What are the British press doing?
- [19:16]
Andrew Loney
Oh, my goodness, it's only smart people like you. So it had all gone rather quiet and then people doing my substack thought we should put it out there. But, yeah, I'm a bit more cautious.
- [19:29]
Joanna Coles
Yes, you should put it out there.
- [19:31]
Andrew Loney
Yeah. So. But you're absolutely right, you know. You know, I can understand, you know, that, you know, people want more evidence. I mean, the problem with this story is it's often difficult to get the affidavits and things that people want. It is, yeah. Of course, I'm starting a substack and I've got a book to sell. So those are particular. Those are perfectly fair comments to make. But, you know, lots of people have substacks and books to sell. Doesn't mean what they say isn't true.
- [19:55]
Joanna Coles
Right. And also I think what's so interesting about your book entitled the Rise and the Fall of the House of York, is that so much of what you said in the book that the Yorks were trying to stop coming out. I mean, we know that they tried to stop their friends from speaking to you. They wouldn't speak to you. So much of what has come out in the book has proven not only to be true. Certainly more than the tip of the iceberg, but. But it's led to, along with Virginia Giuffre's book, Nobody's fool, the Prince losing his title.
- [20:30]
Andrew Loney
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's extraordinary. I mean, I think they realized that this. There were wider questions about royal privilege and accountability being asked by the media, by social media, and they felt that they had to kind of cut him loose before he infected the rest of them. And I think when the king saw him, was being heckled at Litchfield, where when, I think they were worried that there might be more Epstein material, they may know what's there, I don't know. I think they realized that they had to distance themselves. And he, you know, there had been increasing calls that he should be investigated and could be charged. And in those circumstances, clearly they needed to distance themselves. And, you know, in some ways, they should have been dealing with this problem years ago. They shouldn't have allowed it to drag on as long as it has.
- [21:15]
Joanna Coles
Well, I was going to ask you about, because in, in a sense, this story has become so prominent because of Jeffrey Epstein, and yet the prince was off frequently, as you have pointed out, on taxpayers money, on diplomatic jaunts, supposedly trade jaunts, where in fact, he didn't want to stay at the residences of the ambassador because it clearly becomes evident that he wanted hot and cold running prostitutes where he. He was staying. And I'm surprised that given how many people knew this was going on in the palace, that nobody reined him in. Was it because the Queen and Prince Philip gave him cover and that you can'tyou know, once you know that they support him, even if you're a respected member of the household, the royal household staff, your word is not going to be taken seriously.
- [22:09]
Andrew Loney
Yes. I mean, the problem was, you know, the policemen were reporting not to the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, but to the head of the household, in effect. And even Tony Johnson Burt, he's the head of the household, when people brought him complaints, said, look, you know, we just got to do our master's bidding. He wasn't a great fan of Andrew. In fact, he got into fisticuffs themselves at one point.
- [22:29]
Joanna Coles
They got into fisticuffs.
- [22:31]
Andrew Loney
Supposedly it's supposed to return physical when Andrew couldn't get hold of a room that he wanted. So Johnson Burt did sort of stand up to him, but Andrew just always wanted went to Mommy and Mommy would overrule anyone. Ambassadors did complain and then found that their sort of careers were pretty curtailed. Simon Wilson, who was the deputy ambassador in Bahrain spoke out and then found his security clearance, I think was withdrawn for a job he had later on. So they have ways of making life difficult for people who don't play ball. And I think the view was taken just given what he wants. I mean, talking to members of the royal household last week, I was amazed that these, both he and Sarah Ferguson still seemed to have staffs. Sarah was coming in and getting her laundry done at Windsor or Buckingham palace and there were still entertaining businessmen in royal palaces and still were still operating under the radar. So I think what we're told and what's happening are some two very different things. But you're absolutely right. I mean, you know, the Epstein thing is kind of taken everyone's attention away from what is the real scandal, I think, which is where they, they've abused their position as royals to make money for themselves. I mean, some ambassadors refused to play ball and when they were given a list of people that Andrew wanted him and either he or his mates to meet didn't provide it or said they were unsuitable and kind of warned him off. But there was quite a lot I talk about in the book and I'm not casting any aspersions, but Andrew had close connections with banks, banks that dealt with, with the sort of customers that no one else wanted to deal with. And so, you know, you can see how the system might have worked.
- [24:13]
Joanna Coles
Andrew, just hold on one second. We're going to take a break for some ads.
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Joanna Coles
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Andrew Loney
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- [27:52]
Joanna Coles
And we're back with Andrew Loney, the British historian. So Peter Morgan, the writer of the brilliant Netflix series the Crown, I read, said that when he was envisaging writing about the royal family, he thought about the Queen as almost as Tony Soprano, that this was a business and she was the sort of head of it. I'm not saying he was likening it to the mob, but as he was thinking about it unfolding over seasons, how did you sustain the story? Now you look back on the Queen and Prince Philip, given all we know now and the love and respect and awe with which the Queen was held, do you think that if she was still alive she would still have that, or do you think she's been subsequently revealed as enabling a very compelling, corrupt son fully knowing what he was up to?
- [28:56]
Andrew Loney
Yeah, I know it's interesting whether, you know, my book might have been published and whether the press would have been as confident as some of them were in running some of the stories they did because, I mean, I know there are a lot of stories that suppressed. So, you know, I suspect now the Queen's dead and Flute's dead, it was a little easier for me to get published. I had a very supportive publisher and big publisher and that helped. And I think then, you know, people felt the ground had been softened and they could come, come back. And there was clearly a very strong feeling among the population that, you know, elites were getting away with some pretty bad behavior and needed to be held to account. And, you know, that clearly was a big factor in the States, but I think it was also a stronger feeling in Britain too. So all, you know, that I think the whole softening up process was beginning and it made it possible. But yeah, I think Queen, the Queen was still alive. I think it would be very difficult.
- [29:48]
Joanna Coles
I wanted to ask you about the Queen's husband, Prince Philip, otherwise known as the Duke of Edinburgh. What was his role in all this? Was he a supporter of Andrew? Did he try and rein him in? Did the Queen always take preference over the Duke of Edinburgh? I mean, as a married couple, as parents, how were they trying to influence Andrew?
- [30:12]
Andrew Loney
Well, I mean, my understanding had always been that, you know, the Duke of Edinburgh was the chap who ran the family and he ran a pretty tight ship. I mean, he was the one who basically summoned Andrew to Wood Farm and told him, basically, you know, you've got to resign all your things, you know, this is it. And he was pretty tough. So I, and the Queen did, did sort of listen to him. So I, I find it's extraordinary that that wasn't what happened. And all I've been told is that, that he, he did obey the Queen. The Queen said, no, you know, we're going to sort of toughest one out. And he had to go with her. I mean, to be fair, he was also by this stage in his 70s and I think he was just didn't really want to have all the fights as she was, that might be required. They thought they could probably get away with it or they perhaps thought they could deal with it. They thought maybe the problems at the time weren't worth addressing because the Baptist. And they do it quietly behind the scenes, and it never happened. They may not have been told the full story by Andrew. I mean, one of the interesting things I picked up last week was that Andrew hadn't told the staff. They didn't know about the interview with Newsnight in Buckingham palace, and therefore the room hadn't been prepared, it hadn't actually been cleaned. And the staff were very upset that actually it wasn't enough. They didn't think in a fit state to have TV cameras in it.
- [31:34]
Joanna Coles
The Queen and Prince Philip must have been older than in their 70s, weren't they? Were they in their 70s? Because I thought the first story about Andrew and Epstein came out, I think, in the Mail or Mail on Sunday in 2011. So they would have.
- [31:50]
Andrew Loney
Yes, it did.
- [31:51]
Joanna Coles
So wouldn't they have been in their 80s at that stage?
- [31:55]
Andrew Loney
Sorry, I just. Yes. So they're older. Yes, exactly. So, I mean, so in some ways, you know, they. They were kind of. They had this attitude of sticking their head in the sand sometimes, and I think that's what they did. And maybe they thought someone else would deal with it. Who didn't deal with it? Who knows? I mean, they're not here to tell us, you know, I mean, to be fair, it was also a problem for King Charles. I mean, he was taking a much more active role by that stage and in the way that William is taking more active role now. So it's. It was kind of on his watch as well, and he's not a great. You know, there's no love lost between the brothers and he has a full measure of his younger brother. He was the one who didn't want him to have this job as a special envoy because he knew how he would abuse a position. So it's. It is a mystery how this was allowed to happen. And, you know, maybe we'll know, maybe some of the courtiers will eventually talk.
- [32:53]
Joanna Coles
I was very interested that you said that, that since the publication of the book and since Prince Andrew has lost his title, that now members of the household, of the royal household feel much freer to talk to you, even off the record, because they're much less frightened of him.
- [33:10]
Andrew Loney
Yes, absolutely. It seems to be. You know, I'm amazed. I mean, I had dinner last week with the former equerry and these are people who would have given me a very wide berth before the book was published, so. And again, you've got to wonder, why are these People coming forward, is it that they want to share information, feel uncomfortable about what they know and feel that there's a higher loyalty than there is to the NDA or their previous job? Or are they giving you disinformation in order to undermine your credibility? Or are they, is there some factor that, I mean, a lot of them didn't like Andrew and were very, very happy to see him, you know, a fallen figure. So you're constantly assessing why people are talking to you. But certainly I've gone back to a lot of people and they've talked. A lot of people now prefer to go on the record as well.
- [34:05]
Joanna Coles
Very interesting. So, and I know you're doing a follow up to your book entitled calling it Untitled. Is that going to be packed with new revelations?
- [34:15]
Andrew Loney
Yeah, well, I've got 150 pages of notes so far just from the material from people who've come forward. And so this is some, you know, this book is a couple of years away. So yeah, I think there'll be, it will all be completely new and you know, we will cover some of the same period clearly. But I'm just getting new, lot more new information. For example, about his time as a trade envoy and activities in places like Kazakhstan, places I didn't know about, like Mongodia. We took out, I think almost all the material about his activities in Libya, for example, and those have now been, I think we could now put that stuff back in. Good lord. The stuff from Peter Mandelson and Epstein was taken out because people didn't, lawyers didn't believe it. And now of course we've got the revelations about Mandelson and Epstein's activities together and how close they were. So, you know, it's been gratifying to see that a lot of my sources proved to be absolutely right, which is why I sort of felt, I felt it was okay to go out in the substack because the sources have proved to be reliable in the past and I'm hopeful that, you know, they're continuing to be so.
- [35:20]
Joanna Coles
Well, now that the Epstein files are about to be released, I'm assuming that there will be more, more emails, more texts, more communications with the former Prince Andrew and Sarah Ferguson. Are you expecting more?
- [35:39]
Andrew Loney
Oh absolutely. I mean, and other names, you know, because clearly the focus has been on him and you know, clearly we've heard Mandelson but very little on the American side. So you know, given the number of documents there are, I mean they've got to be huge number of revelations. And if you remember there were 40. I think 40 girls came forward to give evidence in the original Palm beach investigation. So there's. You know, I still think you've only got the tip of the iceberg here in terms of, of what even law enforcement knows, let alone what may emerge quite separately from other, other. Other witnesses and testimony.
- [36:17]
Joanna Coles
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- [38:50]
Joanna Coles
And we're back with Andrew Loney talking about Andrew, formerly known as Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein. Do you think there is the chance that Andrew, Prince Andrew, as he was known, will end up coming to the United States to give evidence?
- [39:11]
Andrew Loney
No, I think that's very unlikely. I mean, I think that was a little bit of grandstanding by the Democrats. I mean, he's been caught between a rock and a hard place for a long time because clearly if he didn't give evidence or didn't cooperate with authorities before, everyone assumed he was guilty. But if he did, clearly he was going to probably implicate himself. So he's in exactly the same position now that I'm sure the lawyers will just say this is a sort of a political trick. Democrats clearly are a minority on the committee. He's not an American citizen, so I can't see him cooperating until he's forced to do so. But I can see material being passed to the British authorities for him to be investigated, both in terms of, say, the sexual trafficking and the misconduct in public office, which is, I think, the most obvious charge that we leveled against him. And I think that, you know, there are good grounds there. And I've offered to offer material that wasn't put in the book, but reasons to give that to the National Crime Agency. I think I have a story on my substack of about $5 million in a suitcase in Kazakhstan, for example.
- [40:21]
Joanna Coles
This was a suitcase of cash.
- [40:23]
Andrew Loney
This is a suitcase of cash that he was given. We know, you know, for example, that he was offered 3.85 million pounds, 1% of a huge deal to bring a Greek water company into Kazakhstan. And that. That. That emerged, I think, through email leaks.
- [40:38]
Joanna Coles
So I think the deal never took place, though, Right?
- [40:41]
Andrew Loney
It didn't take place because of internal unrest. So. But we do know that there were these sort of deals going on. And so I think we may find other things emerge, other people may come forward and talk. You know, Elon Musk has said various things in the past. There are people who've seen the files before they were redacted who may again be prepared to talk or leak material.
- [41:04]
Joanna Coles
Are these just the things that were in Jeffrey Epstein's safe, or what do we actually think they were? Are these the supposed documents and information that he was, in theory or alleged to have been blackmailing people with?
- [41:20]
Andrew Loney
Well, I mean, there's material from the Department of Justice and the FBI. This is all part of the investigation. So there'll be witness testimony with people they interviewed. There will be material that they've collected. So, for example, we know that there were videos and tapes that he made of people who came to the house or the various homes, and those may be released. I think one of them has been briefly shown on the Internet. So there's a lot of material, as you say, the stuff that may. He just kept himself, that was confiscated when they raided the homes. We don't really know. I mean, this is what's so interesting. But. But there certainly is a lot of material. And, you know, just to see how devastating the limited amount that's been leaked so far has been, it suggests that there's. There's some really big damaging disclosures to come. Well.
- [42:13]
Joanna Coles
Well, you couldn't have launched a substack at a better time, Andrew. I can't wait for the next. The next installment. And, you know, I hope you get more information on what actually happened. Happened to Jeffrey Epstein in jail. But good luck with, you know, solving what sometimes feels like the world's biggest mystery.
- [42:35]
Andrew Loney
Yes. Well, I mean, think how much has come out just in the last few months. And so I'm hopeful that the full story. Well, a pretty full story will eventually emerge, but it just may take time.
- [42:44]
Joanna Coles
Yeah, and as they say, you really couldn't make it up. Every day there's something coming at you, and you just think, how is this even possible? Anyway, way. I'm glad to know that you haven't entirely jumped the shark. And we will come back to you the moment the Epstein files are released because we would love your take on what. What you've found in there. So promise us you'll come back.
- [43:05]
Andrew Loney
Of course. I look forward to it.
- [43:06]
Joanna Coles
All right. Andrew Loney, thank you so much.
- [43:09]
Andrew Loney
Pleasure.
- [43:14]
Joanna Coles
I sometimes feel that I'm on psychedelics listening to these stories. They're so outlandish, the claims. And yet time after time, it turns out the conspiracies are true. That Randy Andy, as he was nicknamed by the tabloids, the beginning of. Well, I want to say the 1980s turned out to be so much truer than anyone could have imagined. And now Andrew Loney's allegations about. About Jeffrey Epstein being killed in his prison cell, about Jeffrey Epstein hiring a sniper to actually take out two members of the British royal family. It seems so outlandish and yet this is where we are. Well, we'll have Andrew back with the release of the Epstein files to dig into them more, but in the meantime, please subscribe to the Daily Beast. We are Independent Media Media. We love and are very grateful for your support. Don't forget to leave us your comments. The comments have blown up and I'm trying my best to read most of them. I can't get through all of them, but we certainly try. And as our first lady would have us say, do not forget this week in particular, be beast. And special thanks to our Beast Beast tier of membership. Herbie Andrew, Mellor, Fulvia, Orlando, Laz Conde, Sandra Clark, Bonzo Val Love, Francisco Bocock, D.C. karen White, Heidi Riley, Connie Rutherford, Sharon Shipley and Andrea Hodel. And thank you to our production team, Devon Rogerino, Anna Von Erson and our editor Jesse Millwood.
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Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily Beast podcast@thedailybeast.com podcasts if you enjoyed this.
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Paige Desorbo
Episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to thedailybeast.com membership podcast and sign up today.