The Daily Beast Podcast
Episode: "I Was in a Cult. This Is How I Know Trump is One"
Date: November 3, 2025
Host: Hugh Docherty (filling in for Joanna Coles)
Guest: Dr. Stephen Hassan, cult expert, mental health professional, author of The Cult of Trump
Episode Overview
In this thought-provoking episode, Hugh Docherty interviews Dr. Stephen Hassan, one of the world’s leading experts on cults and author of The Cult of Trump. The conversation centers on Dr. Hassan’s personal experience as a former member of the Moonies cult, his development of the BITE model of mind control, and his contention that Donald Trump’s followers exhibit classic signs of cult-like behavior. Dr. Hassan blends his insights on brainwashing and authoritarian control with practical advice for families divided by political allegiance.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Dr. Hassan’s Personal Journey and Expertise
- Dr. Hassan was recruited into the Moonies at age 19 and rose to a leadership position. He was eventually deprogrammed after a car crash and made it his life’s work to study cults.
- "I felt responsible and I wanted to help people to get out. ... I became a whistleblower and gave [Congress] all of Moon's private internal speeches about taking over the world." (06:28)
- The Jonestown Massacre was a pivotal moment, reinforcing how dangerous cult mind control can be.
- "I knew I would have done what they did, giving cyanide lace flavor aid to children and such." (07:28)
Defining a Cult: The BITE Model
- Dr. Hassan breaks down cult control into four components:
- Behavior Control
- Information Control
- Thought Control
- Emotional Control
- "These four ... when you ask me about 70 million Americans voting for Trump, I say China has a billion and a half. And I call them an authoritarian mind control cult..." (08:29)
- Not all cults are inherently negative; even fandoms like those for Bruce Springsteen or Taylor Swift can exhibit cult-like tendencies, but lack deception and coercion. What's worrisome are "authoritarian mind-control cults." (08:09)
How Trump Fits the Cult Leader Mold
- Trump’s upbringing in the Norman Vincent Peale “Power of Positive Thinking” church played a foundational role, instilling the belief that “doubt is a sin.”
- "He had a very unusual, unhappy childhood, authoritarian parents who were racist and with Nazi leaning. ... He had a cult of personality." (13:12)
- The Trump persona is a manufactured image—the “successful businessman”—propped up by media, information control, and foreign money.
- "...They literally created an image that Donald Trump was a successful businessman when he wasn’t. He had bankruptcy after bankruptcy, and he got bailed out by the Russian mafia..." (13:12–14:05)
Cult Techniques and MAGA
- Trump and his movement create estrangement from family and friends, a classic cult tactic.
- "Almost everyone I talk to says, I have a family member or a friend who's become MAGA. I don't recognize them. They've completely changed their value systems." (14:43)
- Modern mind control is amplified by technology, social media, and algorithmic reinforcement, especially exacerbated by COVID-19 isolation.
- “Human beings were not evolved to be online 10 hours a day. We are social beings to be in real life.” (10:01)
Dealing with Cult-affiliated Family Members
- Dr. Hassan urges “massive effort to reach out,” apologizing for past slights, and rebuilding non-political connections.
- "Say I miss you. I want you back in my life. Expect them to be angry at you ... apologize ... but we're family and let's be together." (20:32)
- Avoid attacking the leader, doctrine, or policies head-on, as this backfires and reinforces cult identity.
- "You never want to attack the leader, the doctrine or the policy head on. ... What works is talking about other groups they would agree are bad." (24:00)
- Use stories, questions, and shared pre-cult memories to reconnect.
- "Show photos, recall family trips, videos to get the person re accessing who they were before..." (26:13)
Information Silos and Manipulation
- Information control is critical—people become "siloed" and are emotionally manipulated by tailored media.
- "If you are in a silo ... we are getting barraged to reinforce our worldview and move and nudge our worldview to extremes through emotional manipulation." (28:39)
- Dr. Hassan recommends awareness, skepticism of sources, and being prepared to change your mind.
- “I tell people, turn off the phone. Learn about ... how our attention is being manipulated and don't trust any one thing and be prepared to change your mind.” (28:54)
The Psychology and Social Dynamics of Cult Followers and Leaders
- Leaders and key Trump associates display cult behavior—“sworn allegiance ... over facts”—often sacrificing critical thinking for belonging and approval.
- “They're definitely in the cult because they've sworn allegiance to Donald Trump over facts.” (30:51)
- (Reference to Solomon Asch’s conformity experiments and the power of groupthink.) (31:36)
- The Democrats, according to Dr. Hassan, are failing to address mind control and cult phenomena effectively.
- "Yes, they're doing it all wrong. ... I've yet to get to anyone in power that has manifested what I'm teaching." (32:39)
Advice for Political Leaders and Society
- Dr. Hassan advises treating cult mind control as a public health emergency, promoting “inoculation programs,” and teaching the public and professionals about brainwashing.
- "We should declare a public health emergency. We're under psychological warfare attack by enemies of democracy.” (33:40)
- Encourages focusing on positive, inclusive visions rather than divisive “us vs. them” rhetoric.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
"I was a 19 year old at Queens College back in 1974...I got recruited into the Moonies cult and became a right wing fascist believing Moon was the Messiah and was told to drop out of college, quit my job, cut off from my family..."
(03:41 – Dr. Stephen Hassan)
"It's really just concerned about authoritarian mind control cults, which is considered a dissociative disorder or a disruption of identity...behavior control, information control, thought and emotional control."
(08:09 – Dr. Stephen Hassan)
"When I was a Mooney ... I was in a bubble ... And these days people are walking around with a supercomputer that is mind controlling them because they're choosing which platforms to listen to, which influencers to listen to.”
(30:51 – Dr. Stephen Hassan)
"What I've learned is what you never do if you want to help someone who's been brainwashed, you never want to attack the leader, the doctrine or the policy head on. Why? Because it activates the cult identity to defend and think you're persecuting them and that you're evil."
(24:00 – Dr. Stephen Hassan)
"I grew up 1.3 miles from Donald Trump in Flushing, Queens. I grew up knowing he was a charlatan, he was a womanizer. So it was a no brainer that he was a malignant narcissist from the beginning."
(40:25 – Dr. Stephen Hassan)
"If you were giving Hakeem Jeffries or Chuck Schumer one bit of advice...I said we should declare a public health emergency. We're under psychological warfare, attack by enemies of democracy..."
(33:40 – Dr. Stephen Hassan)
Timestamps for Important Segments
- Dr. Hassan’s cult background and awakening: 03:41 – 07:39
- The BITE model and cult definition: 08:09 – 09:36
- Trump’s upbringing and cult leader traits: 12:14 – 14:05
- Estrangement from family and cult indoctrination: 14:43 – 15:23
- Advice for dealing with MAGA relatives: 20:32 – 24:00
- Information control and reality testing: 28:39 – 30:24
- Cult psychology, groupthink, and leader dynamics: 30:51 – 32:34
- Democratic party missteps and public health approach: 32:39 – 33:40
- How to talk to those “inside” without causing backlash: 24:00 – 27:21
- Final thought experiment: Would Trump himself respond to deprogramming?: 40:09 – 41:47
Conclusion & Takeaways
Dr. Stephen Hassan compellingly argues that the techniques he experienced—and later studied—in cults are active within the MAGA movement and Trump’s orbit. He cautions against direct confrontation, instead prescribing patience, empathy, and skillful questioning to reconnect with loved ones. Hassan also calls for broader awareness and societal response, urging leaders to frame cult-like political phenomena as public health emergencies, educate the populace, and focus on long-term societal healing.
The episode is both a guide and a cautionary tale—rooted in Dr. Hassan's personal experience, research, and the urgent political climate.
For more insight, Dr. Hassan’s book The Cult of Trump and further resources can be found at freedomofmind.com.