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B
Today.
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A
We should revisit this, this Greenland thing. He posts it at night. Everybody gets up in the morning. The world goes into a paroxysm of everything. The world is ending. We are some of the few people who said from the beginning, this means nothing. He is not going to take Greenland. This is meaningless. One of his aides said to me, you know, he sets these fires constantly, but it's really not the fire that that he focuses on. What he focuses on is the fire engines rushing to put the fire out.
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B
Michael Joanna, I feel like it's only, what is it, 10 hours since we were last together at the 92nd Street. Why?
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A
And it was a good evening.
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B
Well, don't sound so surprised.
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A
Well, I'm always surprised. I'm surprised when anything works out. But that certainly did. And now I feel disappointed that we're not on stage all the time. All the time.
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B
I know. All the time. It was so much fun to meet so many viewers and listeners. We really appreciate all your questions. We got over 50 questions from people. And we only got to five, so I thought we could get to some today.
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A
Yeah, definitely. I mean, it was a really good. A good crowd, a nice evening. Evening. You looked smart.
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B
You were not wearing Michael. You can't see this, but Michael is wearing maroon cords. Are those moleskin?
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A
I would say burgundy, but I would say maroon.
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B
And you were wearing a suit.
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A
I was.
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B
So you look very smart.
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A
Thank you. You think I should wear a suit for the podcast?
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B
No, but the thing about cardigans, one forgets is that cardigans give you extra pounds. And when you were wearing the suit, I was like, oh, he's really svelte.
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A
You think I look chubster?
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B
No, but I just think they're kind of schlumpy cardigans. They're fantastic, and I love them.
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A
Well, this is not a recommendation.
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B
No, but it's become your thing.
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A
It has. It has.
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B
It's become your thing.
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A
Somebody was saying, can you imagine Donald Trump in a cardigan? And the answer is resoundingly, no.
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B
No, I can't imagine. Well, first thing, I think, either. Well, actually, I can.
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A
Well, yes, that's. No. I mean, but Donald Trump is only.
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B
Yes. No.
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A
Yes. Donald Trump is only in the suit. Those. Those 80s Brioni suits.
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B
Right. We're always in navy or gray.
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A
Yes. Or the golf attire.
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B
Right. Or his polo shirt.
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A
There's. There's nothing between that. We. We've never seen him in anything else.
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B
He doesn't have normal leisure wear like other people. And he always wears a white golf shirt, doesn't he? I've never seen him in a dark golf shirt.
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A
No. And there was a moment during the campaign. Do you remember when he went to sneaker con?
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B
I don't actually remember that.
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A
Yes. No. It was in Philadelphia, and somehow he went to sneaker con because he had a line of sneakers.
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B
Oh, yes, the gold sneakers. They were like $400 with a gold star on something.
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A
And this is by someone, you know, the minions, the commercial minions around him creating products. And he went to sneaker con. He kept saying, what is this? What is this? Why are we going to this thing? And then he got there and he said, what are these?
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B
He said, what are these? When he held a sneaker.
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A
Exactly.
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B
That can't be true.
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A
No. Well, what are these? When he held his sneaker, and then they said, oh, no, these are the Trump. These are Trump sneakers. Which, of course, he's never worn. He's never worn any kind of leisure wear shoe other than golf shoes.
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B
Well, that's probably because he has to, as far as we know, remember how obsessed he was about putting his shoes back on after he was shot at in Butler, Pennsylvania.
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A
But then, and let's digress a little more because my favorite moment from Sneaker Con was he wasi mean, he got an incredible reception, you know, with people suddenly shouting, usa, usa. I mean, it really is a Trump crowd, the sneaker crowd. And a guy came up to him afterwards and kind of, kind of muscled through as the Secret Service going. And he had a tattoo in the middle of his face. And Trump is looking at. I mean, the guy is praising Trump, I love you, this and that. And Trump cannot take his eyes off this tattoo in the middle of the guy's face, right? And then finally he interrupts the guy and he says, touches his arm. He says, how much would it cost to get that tattoo removed?
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B
What did the guy say?
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A
He was looked flabbergasted. And like most people do when Trump says these kinds of things, things to him, right?
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B
There used to be a man that sat outside Charing Cross Station in London who had a tattoo of a spider on his face. And the nose was the eyes and the head of the spider, and then the spider's legs went over his face. It was just extraordinary. I was always hoping to see him there because it was just the most bizarre, freakish kind of look.
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A
And now that we have digressed, we've really digressed, okay?
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B
And we have to get back to the most important things. Trump's Board of Peace. We'll be talking about the Davil speech. Is Mark Carney the new leader of the free world, the future for Europe. Terrible polling for Donald Trump. JD Vance going to Minneapolis to see if he can. Well, he's got quite a lot on his plate because now he's got to negotiate the Greenland deal. Did you see Trump saying that to him? Well, J.D. vance is going to do it. And poor J.D. vance.
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A
We have the fate of Greenland, which we're already forgetting about because it's already over. A chapter closed.
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B
Okay, well, we're going to reopen the chapter, I think. And then we've got some questions that people had in the audience from yesterday that we didn't get to, some of which are really good.
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A
I'd like to get to the bad polling, too, because the polling is terrible.
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B
No, it's terrible. It's terrible. And everybody's now just saying, well, the minute the midterms arrive. And also the economy is up and down.
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A
I would say the economy is down.
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B
Ok, the economy is down. The price of groceries are up. The stock market picked up yesterday, having taken a dip because of the uncertainty around Greenland. And the volatility is supposed to be baked in, but it still seems a bit volatile. Okay, so shall we start with his peace board? We woke up this morning to the fact that he'd had this press announcement for his peace board. Joining fee 100. No, joining fee $1 billion. This is the Mar A Lago of peace negotiations. Whatever. Whatever. Yes, the Mar A Lago billion. So he's trying to do his own peace. And they were expecting or hoping for 35 countries to sign up. They've got fewer than 20. Carolyn Levitt appeared to be the only person in the room applauding ferociously every time Donald Trump thanked one of the people. But so far, the people, too, have joined. Qatar, Saudi Arabia. None of the Western European companies have joined. Canada hasn't joined. This is humiliating for Trump. Putin's joined, of course, Putin's joint.
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A
I mean, it's hard to say what is and what isn't humiliating for Trump. You could go through his entire career and say everything is humiliation after humiliation, which he seems to. Seems to cast aside.
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B
Well, I think it fuels him, doesn't it?
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A
I once read a line, and I don't know where this is from, which was. But I logged in my. In my mind, if you're willing to risk humiliation, the world is yours. And that's a good line. Trump does this again and again and again and again. I mean, this peace board, what is this peace board? What is it supposed to do? What is it supposed. Where does it fit in, in diplomacy, International order, the international legal structure. It's just a kind of a PR thing, but not even a good PR thing. It's a.
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B
Well, and isn't it a further grift.
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A
I'm sure, yes, it's a further grift. Where does this. Where does the billion go?
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B
Yeah, exactly. Where does the billion go?
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A
Or does anyone actually pay the billion, which is that other thing, you know, you know, all of these private clubs that are opening, and they say, you know, you know, it's a $350,000 entrance, entrance fee or initial fee that you have to. Have to pay. And then you have a little discussion. They say, well, 5,000 will do it.
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B
Yeah. Although. Well, yes, but Hungary, Russia, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, they've all agreed to sign on. I have no idea if they're paying the billion dollars or not, or if the billion dollars comes in terms of some sort of investment.
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A
Whatever the grift is, there Is grift on top of grift here. So Trump is grifting whoever he can grift here. But these people who are supposed to pay the billion, they're also grifting. So it's a. In the end, it may not be anything in the end, as with so much, it just disappears a bit like Greenland. We will be saying, you remember the.
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B
Peace board, Joanna, or will it have just disappeared uninvested?
- [11:27]
A
Like the way we won't ever remember the Peace Board.
- [11:30]
B
Right. Just like we don't remember, remember what on earth is happening to the East Wing. I mean, that's fallen off the agenda. But, but, but let's go back to the Davos speech because that was important. And I mean, to some extent what you said about Greenland, that it meant nothing, that this was empty rhetoric, as actually Gavin Newsom said it was full of fire and fury, signifying nothing. Great quote there. But bringing in your book title. So that's good for you, that this was more just attention getting.
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A
Yeah, I mean, we should revisit this, this Greenland thing. He posts it at night, everybody gets up in the morning. The world goes into a paroxysm of everything. The world is ending. We are some of the few people who said from the beginning, this means nothing. He is not going to take Greenland. He is not going apply these tariffs. This is meaningless. Or the only meaning here is that this is a new Trump chapter which will close. He's going to squeeze this for all of the attention he can get of all of the sturm and drung that the world is going to offer up to him. And it is really an offering to him because it's a tension.
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B
Right. And it takes the heat off Epstein and the slow drip, drip, drip of the release of the Epstein files. It takes the emphasis off the economy, which the grocery basket is going up in price. It takes the emphasis off ice and what's happening and the extra 3,000.
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A
Minneapolis. Minneapolis.
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B
Minneapolis, yeah. So this is a distraction technique, which now, I mean, but it's a distraction technique.
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A
But I don't want to, because people, I think people understand this. He distracts from whatever happened yesterday. He distracts with whatever happens today. But the distraction in itself, whatever he does, also has this value to him, which is attention. That's what he wants. He is one more day at the center of the world.
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B
Okay. And give the anecdote that you gave or the description of him that you mentioned at 92nd Street Y last night about the fire engines, you know, somebody.
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A
One of his aides said to me, and you know, the interesting thing about the people around him is that they are not blind to who he is and what he is, and the mystery often of what, of what keeps Trump in power. But one of his aides said to me, you know, he sets these fires constantly, but it's really not the fire that he's. That he focuses on. What he focuses on is the fire engines rushing to put the fire out.
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B
So it's the noise and the lights and the drama. He's addicted to the drama.
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A
Exactly.
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B
And Susie Wiles famously said in Vanity Fair recently, oh, he's got an alcoholic's personality. That is, he's an addict. He doesn't drink, as far as we know, but he's addicted to attention. Right.
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A
And I want to say, because a lot of people said, oh, that was revealing. And she. That was a mistake on her part. And she, in a devastating comment, it's what he says. And he says it all of the time. I'm like, proudly, I'm. And to interpret it, he says I'm like an alcoholic, but because he doesn't drink, this somehow gets to be an insight into himself. And at the same time, a pat on the back.
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B
There was an incredible photo yesterday while he's giving his Davos speech, which I want us to get to, of his henchmen in the front row. And there's Suzie Wiles looking down the Scott Besant who's gone on the attack over Gavin Newsom in a very unbescentian way. And it doesn't behoove him, I think, to do that. And then Marco Rubio. And Marco Rubio is just sitting like this. And Bess Zent and Suzy Wiles are looking down. Trump is mid insulty speech. He's just insulting, firing off insults to absolutely everybody. And they just look like, oh, my God, we're going to have to clear this up.
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A
Yeah. No, no, I mean, I think of.
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B
Them as the cleaners now that they have to come in and clean it up. J.D. vance has to sort out the contract for Greenland. And, you know, remember when Trump was asked who's going to run Venezuela, and they were having the press conference, and he looks at Rubio and remarks, a.
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A
Remarkable what the fuck? Moment on the part of everybody there.
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B
And no matter how they are prepared for Trump's madness, they were not prepared for that. And you could see the horror and shock descending over them, the slight paling of the skin as they realized they were going to be left with his mess.
- [16:42]
A
No. You know, and I think More and more. And it's this interesting thing because we're in this new phase in which he is looking outward, this international phase. And I think Trump doesn't know anything about anything, but he knows even less about anything outside of the American borders. I mean, he doesn't even know where things are.
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B
Right, right.
- [17:07]
A
And I think that this starts to become clearer and clearer. I mean, there was. What was this just last week, the. The Iran thing. And he was going to arrest you, the Iranian protesters.
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B
Right. Help is on the way is what he said.
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A
Help is on the way. And it was an explicit threat. If you kill these protesters, to the mullahs, this was, if you kill them, I'm coming after you. You'll have to deal with me. But then they proceeded to kill them by the thousands. And of course, he could do nothing because he knows nothing about this situation. And essentially, essentially, the world suddenly went into another paroxysm and said, you know, these guys, the mullahs are on the verge of extinction here. If you threaten them, they will take us all down. So unless you have a specific plan here, please, please don't do this. And of course, he retreated. And as happened now in Greenland, he doesn't know what he. He doesn't know what he's doing. He doesn't know what he doesn't know. He doesn't know how to proceed. As soon as anyone raises a complicating detail.
- [18:28]
B
Well, and as you always make the point, he doesn't read any briefings, he doesn't listen to any briefings. And as you're always saying, this is an informational heavy job. You would want the president to be able to take in information. And so he doesn't even know the situation with Greenland, which is that we already have access to it. The US Actually took bases out of Greenland because they didn't want to pay for them. We have every right to expand our military bases there if we so wish.
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A
No. And that's why. So Marco Rubio, who is a professional, I mean, I don't want to praise Marco Rubio too much, but, yeah, don't.
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B
Let's do a Tony de Coppel. Remember where he did that at the end of NBC News. CBS News, sorry. And he went, marco Rubio, we salute you as a true Floridian. You were like, oh, no, no.
- [19:19]
A
But Marco Rubio has been doing this job for quite some time, has sat on the appropriate committee, has sat through the appropriate PowerPoints, which Trump never does. You know, it's a kind of. Kind of. It's A profound understanding within the White House. No PowerPoints.
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B
Well, I'm with Trump on that. I hate PowerPoints.
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A
And he does. They put up a PowerPoint and generals are always putting up PowerPoints. He's out the room in 90 seconds. So. But. So Marco Rubio is a relative in this bunch, a leading professional. And so going into this with Trump knowing nothing, putting. Taking steps based on knowing nothing, it is Marco Rubio who's left with having to clean this up.
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B
Right. So let's get to it.
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A
Which is why he likes Hegseth more than Marco Rubio, because Hegseth doesn't know anything either.
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B
Right. And also Hegseth. No way in hell Hegseth is going to get his head around this stuff.
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A
I mean, Trump really likes people who know nothing, so.
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B
Interesting. Well, because they can't challenge him, I suppose. All right, please, can we get to the Davos speech where he managed to.
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A
Remember Natalie Harp, we haven't talked about Natalie in a long time.
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B
Was she in Davos?
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A
She's always with him everywhere.
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B
Can we get to the speech? Please, can we get to the speech? Mark Carney set it up the night before as this is a rupture in the world order as we know it. Lindsey Graham was faffing around telling everybody that the world order hadn't worked for the last 80 years and NATO was basically a waste of time. Which you think Lindsey doesn't mean.
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A
No, I mean, he doesn't mean this at all.
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B
He just means he just wants to be near power.
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A
Yeah. Trump. Trump. Yeah.
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B
You mean he's just in awe of Trump?
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A
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a.
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B
Kind of a. I will just say, for the record, he is unmarried.
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A
Yes.
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B
Meaning he's a happy bachelor.
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A
Well, he's a happy bachelor.
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B
All right, please, let's get to the Davos speech. I'm now thinking that you didn't even listen to the Davos speech.
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A
I did.
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B
Because you're deflecting so much.
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A
You're deflecting and I did. But. And I will say I have heard it before.
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B
Right.
- [21:36]
A
I mean, I have. You know how many Trump speeches I have listened to at this point in the course of 10 years, and they are all remarkably similar. Their digression upon digression upon digression, their grievance upon grievance upon grievance, their insult upon insult, insult upon insult upon insult. I mean, the thing about that speech, and I mean that was so interesting, is that there is not. We were discussing this last night. There's not one thing in the speech that is true. I mean, notI mean, this is not a question of just fact checking. This is a question of nothing. Everything in that speech is off by a considerable factor. So if you listen to that speech, and it was really a speech about his first year in office, which has just come to an end, and the vision here, the reality inversion, was that everything had gone spectacularly well beyond. It had turned out beyond anyone's imagination of how good good can be. I mean, there is no level of hyperbolic exaggeration that this speech did not reach Everything he had done, a miracle, everything in the United States, a utopia, it had all come together. History had come together at this moment in time for the United States. And then he went on to Europe where everything. It was the darkness at noon, everything had failed. Europe was closing down, closed, finished, over with.
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B
That's not what it was. It's not what it was because his friends, he says, I have friends who go to Europe and they tell me it's not what it was. What was that?
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A
I don't know. But there was. I remember within the White House, the aides around him. He often evokes a friend who went to France once, and people say, who. Who's that friend?
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B
Because all his friends go. I mean, this is also. His worldview is basically formed between Mar A Lago and. It used to be New York. Right. But the Florida worldview is different.
- [23:56]
A
I don't know. I mean, the European thing is, again, that. That elites think people go to Europe. Are not my people. They look down on me. I don't go to Europe. And he does. He is a person, a remarkably untraveled person before coming into the White House.
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B
Well, except he has his golf course in Scotland. He goes.
- [24:19]
A
Well, he went to the. Yeah, he went to. Yeah, he goes to his properties. But he doesn't travel like most people at a certain, you know, social or economic level travel. He doesn't.
- [24:32]
B
Well, he's not curious about the world. He's not curious about other people. He's not curious about other landscapes. He likes what he knows. Where he can be king.
- [24:41]
A
Exactly.
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B
Good God. Did you just agree with me?
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A
I did.
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B
Very, very unusual.
- [24:46]
A
Where he could be king.
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B
Where he could be king. When he arrived in Davos yesterday, I was going to say Zermatt, because I had skiing on the brain. Someone had going skiing. No, I'm not going skiing because I'm about to get an extra hit. I'm getting one, not an extra hip. I'm about to get another hip replacement. So I'M definitely not skiing this year.
- [25:03]
A
But when you arrive, did I miss that into that chapter in your life?
- [25:08]
B
You might have missed that chapter in my life, but it extended. Well, that might have been when we were having our feud. Although I've skied for what, the last 20 years? So we haven't feuded for 20. Maybe I just never told you because I knew you wouldn't approve. Anyway, when he arrived and he came very gingerly down the steps from Air Force One, someone had managed to carve out on the hill above Davos, no kings in snow. They'd brilliantly just written it in snow, which was very effective. Very big. Everybody was taking pictures of it. And then another very good meme that was going around online that several people sent me was Trump mid speech and then pressed to mute over his mouth.
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A
I would have said it should have said no mad kings.
- [25:54]
B
No mad kings. Yeah, true. All right.
- [25:58]
A
So I thought kings are not so bad.
- [26:01]
B
Well, King Charles is looking a hell of a lot better than King Trump. I thought the interesting thing in the speech was when he decried other countries for being stupid, especially over, you know, green technology. And then he said about himself, I'm very, very smart. First of all, no smart people would ever say that. And secondly, to me, that was just such an insight into his biggest anxiety about himself, which is he knows he's not very smart. Doesn't mean that he's not been successful because now he's king of the world. But oddly, he clearly doesn't feel smart.
- [26:41]
A
Jeffrey Epstein when in the question about what does Putin have on Trump? Jeffrey Epstein said he has his college transcripts.
- [26:55]
B
He has his college transcripts.
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A
And a word from our sponsors.
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B
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B
There are thousands of cars on ebay, from unique finds like the Pontiac Grand Prix SJ to daily drivers, and now with a new way to buy them.
- [29:40]
A
Ebay, things people love.
- [29:48]
B
And Michael Wolff and I are back inside Trump's head. He went to Wharton and studied finance, right?
- [29:59]
A
Well, he went to Wharton undergraduate.
- [30:01]
B
Please, please, someone access those transcripts.
- [30:05]
A
No. He has threatened in the first administration, he threatened Wharton if they were released in any shape or form. I'm sure that they are under.
- [30:19]
B
Do you think they even still have them?
- [30:21]
A
Well, they may have gotten rid of them because it's so too hot to handle.
- [30:26]
B
I think they've gotten rid of them because.
- [30:30]
A
But Epstein thought Putin has gotten those and that's what he holds over him because the transcripts are terrible.
- [30:36]
B
I bet that pen has just lost them because over years of filing and trying to digitize things, stuff goes missing. Nobody has stuff from 50 years ago and this is the Smithsonian and even now the Smithsonian's having to rewrite it.
- [30:48]
A
Well, I, you know, but if there's.
- [30:51]
B
Anyone at Wharton who can get us access to Those transcripts. Please, please do. Or maybe we have to go to Russia and talk to Putin. All right, so we've, we've digested speech.
- [31:03]
A
But anyway, your point is. Yes. That this is a very serious thing, his intelligence, the idea that people are smarter than. Than he is. I mean, when I published Fire and Fury, I mean, I was the one who started to talk about his level of intelligence, and then he came out and said, I am a very stable genius.
- [31:23]
B
Right, right. And he's neither. He's instable unstable, and he's not a genius. It's just fascinating the way he gives it away. And then poor old Macron macaron has an eye infection, turns up with these, frankly, very cool blue shades, which adds a frisson to the whole Davos experience. And Trump goes after him and he's.
- [31:45]
A
Like, well, he goes after him because that glasses, that moment earned Macron attention.
- [31:52]
B
Right, right. And then he went after Mark Carney and just said, remember, Canada, you don't exist without us. Because Mark Carney's speech had gotten attention the night before, and Mark Carney's thinner and smarter.
- [32:07]
A
Yeah, no, I mean, that was an impressive speech, actually, in a moment where there are not too many impressive speeches.
- [32:14]
B
Yep, yep. And then Trump disappeared with the head of NATO, Mark Rutte, and they finessed something so that the Greenlanders are now free again. Right.
- [32:27]
A
So, but the news in that, in that speech was that we're not going to send in, we're not going to attack Greenland. You know, so after two weeks of, we're going in, we're taking it, you can't, you can't stop us the easy way or the hard way. We're not going to do anything. And, you know, I mean, it's always interesting to figure out the moment, the tipping point moment of how Trump gets out of these. These things. And I think that moment, somebody explained to him that actually people would be killed, which is the other thing, that he's the strong man, he's the dominant figure, he's going to do anything. We're going to do it the easy way or the hard way, but he doesn't want anyone to be killed. So this is all in this narrative of dominance, but dominance without cost. Dominance just based on pronouncements.
- [33:31]
B
Right, right. And we're recording this on Thursday morning. We don't know the results of the conversation he had with Vladimir Zelensky, which he had this morning, and then he walked out, and it looked like he was about to go straight back onto Air Force One without giving A press conference, which as we know is unusual for him. So who knows if they had a good meeting or not? We don't know as of recording. All right, so he's got bad polls. And then of course he's sending J.D. vance now to Minneapolis.
- [33:59]
A
Yeah, I mean, Minneapolis still is that. I mean, it's bad. You know, I mean, of all the things and you sort of look at this and say, and say the economy itself, the economy is bad. He can't seem to improve it. It's, it just doesn', tit just doesn't move. Jobs are down, prices are up, at least prices in terms of the price range that affects most Americans on a daily basis. And that has to do with housing prices and food prices. He can't move them. This will defeat him or will defeat the Republicans in and it also looks.
- [34:50]
B
Like the Supreme Court is going to say that he can't decide that Lisa Cook, who's on the board of the Fed should be terminated.
- [34:58]
A
Right, Right. But so the point so we go into this election year with that as the baseline, an economy that will defeat him and defeat the Republicans. But now we've added to that this Minneapolis thing, which gets worse and worse and worse. It isyou know, it has become something of the ground zero in resistance to Donald Trump. This, the cruelty of these guys, the ICE guys, the inexperienced, and then the fact that Trump is promising them immunity, the Insurrection act, he's just doubling down on everything that makes this makes this worse. And then he's done this, this interesting thing has happened that Minneapolis, not that many weeks ago was a real vulnerability for the Democrats. I mean, they had a growing scandal there which was affecting a whole range of prominent Democrats.
- [36:05]
B
Well, Tim Walsh announced he's the governor and of course Kamala Harris, vice presidential running mate last year, that he's no longer going to stand for election again at the end of his term.
- [36:15]
A
Right. You know, and Keith Ellison, the attorney general there, Ilian Omar, who has Trump has a personal thing against it, was shaping up as an issue that could carry that the Democrats couldthat could pay off for the Republicans in a substantial way.
- [36:35]
B
And this was a scandal about childcare and the fact that the welfare system was being bilked by crooks.
- [36:42]
A
Right. Okay. That ray of light for the Republicans is now gone. When you say Minneapolis, we thought of scandal. Now when we say Minneapolis, we think of Renee Goode. So again, this Trump thing of, of just shooting himself in the foot. He is self destructive. That there is noand it's important to understand this, that this is a guy in this political role, obviously, who has to be attentive. He only succeeds, one would think, if the politics of this work to his advantage. But that's never really on the top of the. His mind. What's on the top of his mind is the moment. Today, what I do, I send troops into Minneapolis because I'm the strong man. A woman gets killed there, then I have to double down on that. She deserved to do that. Now he's obviously more recently trying to back out of that. And perhaps that's what Vance is there. Perhaps he said, or perhaps other people in the Republican Party said, this is, we gotta solve this problem.
- [37:57]
B
Well, maybe JG Vance is doing that by offering up another child with usha Vance. Congratulations. Ushavants. You're pregnant again. Fourth child. I wish I'd had four children, actually, but not with J.D. vance.
- [38:10]
A
I have five.
- [38:11]
B
You have five children? I do. Wow, that's a lot. Well, men can have a second family. It's harder for women anyway. I wished I'd have more children. Usher Vance, you can have it all. Except that. Not with J.D. not with J.D. vance.
- [38:29]
A
Yeah, I have nothing to say to that.
- [38:32]
B
All right, well, J.D. vance is going to Minneapolis. Is he going to have any impact whatsoever?
- [38:39]
A
I don't. You know, last week they were sending in. I mean, there was the Insurrection act, and we were sending in 3,000 troops.
- [38:46]
B
Well, they haven't actually deployed the Insurrection Act. They've just talked about it.
- [38:49]
A
Exactly, exactly. But that's an interesting thing. If they're backing off from that. And I suspect at this point they want to back off from that. And remember, it is the Trump. What is the Trump method here is that we won't remember this. It goes away. He'll add something, something else on top of this. Minneapolis goes away.
- [39:12]
B
So they're all.
- [39:12]
A
So, I mean, I find it difficult to imagine that it could go away because it is very bad. But Trump manages that. Everything goes away. Except Epstein.
- [39:24]
B
Epstein. Epstein. So just before we come to Epstein and the Clintons, which I really want to talk to you about, the Supreme Court said that he couldn't send troops into Portland, Oregon, Chicago, I think New York. Right. They. They said no. Oh, Louisiana. Louisiana. Portland, Chicago. So now he's sending them to Portland, Maine. I wonder if that's to punish Susan Collins for her dithering, although she always comes down on his side. What do you think? Or do you think it's just, well, we can't go to Portland, Oregon. We're going to go to Portland, Maine.
- [40:01]
A
He Doesn't. Probably doesn't know the difference.
- [40:03]
B
He's. Why Portland? It's called Portland. Anyway, just send them in. So I suspect more ICE problems to come because there's also a Somali community.
- [40:15]
A
No, I mean, there will clearly be more. More ICE problems. I mean, you have an inexperienced police force with functionally unlimited power. What's that going to add up to? That's going to add up to people getting hurt.
- [40:30]
B
And led by Ice Barbie herself, Kristi Noem, ultimate sycophant.
- [40:36]
A
Yeah, I mean, led by Donald Trump. I mean, it's him. Nobody else. Nobody else. Except Stephen Miller. Led by Stephen Miller. So you have two crazy people leading this. No other person, even Ice Barbie, would actually want to do this because the risks are so high. Except. So you need a crazy person.
- [41:00]
B
You need a crazy person. Yes. All right, so let's come to Epstein. The Oversight Committee has said they're going to have Ghislaine Maxwell appearing before them, I think, on February 10th. February 11th. And they've also.
- [41:15]
A
And how does she appear? In chains, I think.
- [41:19]
B
In some sort of pale green suit from Camp Bryan, where she is.
- [41:25]
A
But. And this is not a. She's not testifying publicly, is she?
- [41:30]
B
I don't know. We need to know more about it. Can we find out? We'll find out by the next podcast, which will be on Saturday. Good God, they rolled around quickly. Anyway, I'm dying to know what Ghislaine Maxwell's going to say, but we know.
- [41:43]
A
What she's going to because she's already testified. She's already.
- [41:45]
B
Well, all she's got in her sights is a pardon. Right. All she wants to do is profit. Prostrate herself. Prostate, Freudian slip there with Ghislaine to get out of jail.
- [41:57]
A
Exactly. So, I mean, yes, she has her mission now. Is she being called by the Republicans or the Democrats? We should know this.
- [42:06]
B
I'm assuming that she's being called by the Democrats.
- [42:11]
A
Okay, let's find this out now. She will be called. I am going to call her in the Melania suit.
- [42:18]
B
You are? Excellent. Are you? We'll come to the Melania suit, but the Clintons. The Clintons have defied the subpoena for them. They're saying that they don't need to appear before. They've written an eight page letter to the Oversight committee saying we really don't have any more details than what's in this letter. And you haven't even released the Epstein files properly yet. So why should we come before you.
- [42:44]
A
All extremely reasonable. And why should they that couple come before the committee to testify. Epstein about Epstein. When there is another couple who is far, who is far more versed in Epstein, Epstein, Epstein than the Clintons are. Which would be, of course. But interestingly, Mr. And Mrs. Trump.
- [43:09]
B
Right. But interestingly, some Democrats demanded the Clintons appear too. This isn't just a Republican thing.
- [43:20]
A
Yeah.
- [43:21]
B
Well, I'm just curious that they would do that because it seems so politically driven. And yet, of course, Bill Clinton. There are lots of photos of Bill Clinton with Gill, Anne Maxwell and with Jeffrey Epstein. And we know that Guillain was very involved at the beginning of the Clinton Global Initiative where, of course, Jeffrey Epstein was generous with his plane. If I had a plane, I would be generous with it, too. Just saying I would. Maybe, maybe.
- [43:54]
A
There was a guy, the guy I know who has a plane, who said he always felt guilty about the plan, plane, having the plane. And when he used it, he felt that he had to always ask other people on it. But then he had to talk to them all the time.
- [44:09]
B
Well, that's.
- [44:10]
A
He would rather just, just go first class.
- [44:15]
B
Except you have to go through the airport. The point of having a private plane is you avoid all that nightmare of security.
- [44:22]
A
Everything's a trade off.
- [44:24]
B
Everything is trade off.
- [44:25]
A
You have money.
- [44:26]
B
Yeah. And I will say, the friends whose planes I've been on, they often say, I'm now going to sleep. I don't want you to talk to me. Which is fine because I often don't want to talk to them either. You just want the lift.
- [44:38]
A
But they feel bad about that.
- [44:39]
B
I don't think they feel bad about that. I think they're just like, fine. Anyway, I can't believe we're having this conversation. Do you feel sorry for him, Trump? It was one of the questions that we didn't have time to get round to last night.
- [44:55]
A
You know, when I have been with.
- [44:57]
B
Him.
- [45:01]
A
I confess to having a feeling of empathy for him. And I don't know where it comes from and it was certainly unbidden, but I've felt it. I feel when I'm with him or on certain occasions, a kind of vulnerability to Donald Trump.
- [45:25]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [45:26]
A
I mean, and I didn't want to feel this and I kind of pushed it back. But there is something that he wants something out of you, some approval, some.
- [45:37]
B
That he's still never going to be invited to the thing.
- [45:40]
A
He wants to be invited to some. Something. And I, I felt it and I felt I would have. I was almost tempted to give it if I knew exactly what he wanted. But he doesn't exactly know what he wants.
- [45:56]
B
Well, what would that be like? A hug? Does he hug people?
- [46:00]
A
No.
- [46:01]
B
Shakes hand?
- [46:03]
A
No.
- [46:04]
B
Right.
- [46:05]
A
He doesn't do either of those things. And ever gratefully a commercial break. Thank you for calling the Bombas Comfort line. Bombas make socks, slippers, tees and underwear made with the highest quality materials. Press 1 for comfort, 2 for style, 3 for donation. You chose Style Bombas styles for whatever you enjoy.
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Worth calling for.
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Go to bombas.com audio and use code audio for 20 off your first purchase. That's B O-M-B-A-S.com and use code audio. Hi, this is Jonathan Fields from Good Life Project. If you're not using Ironclad for contracts, you could be leaving millions on the table without knowing it. Every contract holds renewal dates, pricing terms and obligations you can't afford to miss. But good luck finding them when it matters. Ironclad's AI instantly surfaces what matters so you can act before opportunities slip away. That's why they're trusted by OpenAI, L' Oreal and Salesforce. Find the savings hiding in your contracts@ironcladapp.com podcast. That's ironcladapp.com podcast if you're an H Vac technician and a call comes in, Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking.
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- [48:20]
B
And I'm back with the Donald Trump Chronicler Michael Wolff. And we are where else? Inside Trump's head. His bruises on his hands were looking really dramatic in Davos. Really dramatic. I don't know if he'd had an IV on the plane. Do you think that Melania will remarry if Donald dies?
- [48:41]
A
You're asking me questions. These are some of the questions that came up last night.
- [48:44]
B
These are questions from last night. We only had time to get to about five of them, but there were so many good questions.
- [48:49]
A
Yeah. I have no idea if she'll. I mean, I mean, there's always been talk about Melania. What is actually her private life. I mean, it's a marriage that only exists in the most peculiar sense. I mean, they don't really live together, they don't really spend much time together. So does she have another life, a parallel life? I don't know.
- [49:19]
B
Well, we know she spent a lot of time with her parents.
- [49:21]
A
Yeah. Yes, obviously. But I mean, a parallel romantic life. Is she prepared when Donald Trump departs to begin a new life? She's a young woman. I don't know.
- [49:37]
B
Well, leading on from that question, a J.D. vance presidency may be inevitable, not by will of voters, but of Trump's death. What does the world look like from that day on?
- [49:50]
A
You know, it looks like a much more normal place. I mean, J.D. vance is. I mean, he seems like a kind of a semi toxic person to me, but he's a recognizable person. He's a political person. He's a guy who wants to. Wants to achieve and get ahead and believes that what other politicians believe that, that he can, if he does the right things, he can be a winner. Which is unlike Donald Trump, who is perfectly sanguine in thinking that he can do all the wrong things and still be a winner.
- [50:32]
B
Right. Okay. Okay. Here's another question that leads on from that. In the Trump world narrative, you detail what's the fate of loyalists like Hegseth and Bondi?
- [50:46]
A
You know, it's an interesting thing because the fate, it's a bad fate. I mean, it ends in tears for all of these people. In the first administration and throughout Donald Trump's career, no one has, you know, hardly anyone has benefited from a relationship with Donald Trump. Number one, in the end, he does not wish them well. In the end, he thinks always they're benefiting or they might benefit at a cost to him. And, I mean, clearly they don't, at this point in time, help their own reputations. So why are they doing this? Can they possibly be blind to this outcome? I don't know. But it won't end well. They will not advance beyond this. And the chances are that they will be publicly humiliated, indicted, not good. Why do people do this? Because people are, you know, delude themselves.
- [51:54]
B
Well, and people want proximity to power, don't they? Sometimes. And as you've always.
- [52:00]
A
Well, they don't want proximity. They want proximity to power because of. Of the advantage that will give them if it gives them, if it is at a cost. The thing is, how can they not appreciate the examples, all of the examples which would indicate that the cost is great.
- [52:20]
B
Right. And of course, these people, as you've often pointed out, would never be in a normal cabinet. This is their opportunity.
- [52:28]
A
And I suppose that's probably the answer that, you know, Pete Hegseth, the co host of a weekend television show, is now the Secretary of Defense, Secretary of War. In what world could that otherwise have happened? Only Donald Trump's world.
- [52:50]
B
Donald Trump's world.
- [52:50]
A
So it's a deal with, you can understand it as a deal with the devil.
- [52:55]
B
So talking about reality distortion field, Donald Trump's world. The designer Valentino died this week. I happened to be shopping in Bergdorf Goodman when the news came out. So it felt very appropriate that I was in the temple of luxury fashion, where I was actually trying to get some bargains in the sale. But it reminded me of a story. When I took over the editorship of Marie Claire, Valentino was celebrating his 40th anniversary. I went to Rome for it. It was very glamorous party.
- [53:27]
A
We digress a lot in this podcast, but this may be the ultimate digression.
- [53:31]
B
Well, it's a bit of a digression, but it comes back to a point which is about the news. So anyway, all good digressions. All good digressions. Yeah, yeah, There is a point, although.
- [53:42]
A
Often you forget the point. I forget the point.
- [53:45]
B
Well, fashion and politics, there's a sort of, well, whatever. So huge party in Rome. I am a new editor, and so I'm invited to meet and have an audience with Mr. Valentino, as his people call him. And just as I'm about to go in and see him, Carlos d', Souza, who is his PR person at the time, says to me, please, Joanna, before you meet Mr. Valentino, do not mention the war in Iraq. So this is 2006. We've had nine, 11, 2001. We have at this point been in Iraq for the last three years, 2003. And so I'm thinking, do not mention the war in Iraq. Okay. This must be because Mr. Valentino has had some Sort of relative who's died in it. Maybe he's had a nephew who signed up. I don't want to trigger him. So I said, no, no, I won't mention the war on Iraq, but is there any specific reason why not? And they literally say to me, me, he doesn't know about it. And I was like, what? So I say, how can he not know about the war in Iraq? It's been going on for three years. Does he not see it in the newspapers? Do you cut it out from the newspapers? And they say to me, Mr. Valentino is a man of beauty. He must live in a world of beauty. No bad news. And I thought to myself, oh, at the time I thought, that's absolutely crazy. These, these designers are crazy. Now I have much more sort of sympathy for that point of view. And I'm struck by how many people tell me they're just in deep news avoidance, that they know things like Greenland are Trump just making stuff up for attention. They're not going to give him the attention. They don't understand why world leaders give him the attention. This is all nonsense. And I actually came around to thinking, if you are Valentino and you're creating things of beauty, actually maybe you don't want this insanity in your life.
- [55:39]
A
Well, I have two things. First, to applaud your accent.
- [55:44]
B
Thank you. Thank you.
- [55:46]
A
But the other thing, I think I.
- [55:47]
B
Can supposed to be Italian. If people were wondering what it was.
- [55:50]
A
I think I can bring this back to a more direct relationship to what we're talking about. People don't tell Trump bad news. Remember, you know, it's the whole thing. Everything that happens, everything that he's thinking is filtered through people who will only say to him what he wants to hear. And so he can. They'll gladly eliminate all kinds of things in the news that other people might affect the decision making process.
- [56:28]
B
But I thought he was watching television all the time. So obviously he's got Fox on. But you've described it as him having sort of eight televisions on at all times.
- [56:36]
A
I mean, but the television, you know, much of the television is, and especially Fox is geared to what he wants to hear. So the other thing, the intelligence, let's assume, I mean, I think we certainly assume and believe that the United States has an enormous amount of information and intelligence that is coming through on the state of the world and what's going on and all of the information that a president needs to keep us safe. Much of that he's not getting a. Because it's too detailed and he can't pay attention to it. But B, because he lives in a very circumscribed world and the people around him don't want to. They don't want to disturb that. And also, he just doesn't know shit. So let me. I will match your story. So I was the first time I interviewed Trump in his political life, which was in 2016. It was two weeks before the Brexit vote. And so I'm sitting with him, and this is in his house in Beverly Hills, and we're eating the ice cream, and I say to him, so what's your feeling about Brexit? And he says the immortal words, huh? And I am kind of a little panicked at this point. And I said, you know, the Brits are voting to possibly leave the eu. Really? He says he just didn't know about it. And then we're looking at each other, then he says, I'm for it.
- [58:33]
B
Wow. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well, shall we end with the limerick? I think we ought to end with the limerick. Garfried has been particularly prolific. Garfield. Thank you, Gary Fried. While Ukraine still burns unresolved his day one deals all dissolve he pivots with flair From Greenland to air Till each new distractions evolved Better and better Better and better. Here is a good one from Marcia Burke Hares. I read this at 92nd Street. Yes. And this is a high cue because we're now getting all sorts of poems, and so not just limericks. We're getting tons of all genres. Midnight bulldozers destroy our constitution Let none of us sleep. I thought that was a good one. And then here is one. I don't think this is his real name. Dun Gone. There once was a joker named Trump who looked like a cowering lump as he opened his mouth, Only hot air came out and smelled like he just took a dump.
- [59:41]
A
I don't think we can top that.
- [59:43]
B
I don't think we can top that. If you have been, thank you for joining us. We'll be back on Saturday. Feel free to leave us a comment on YouTube. We love your comments. We read them. I try and answer them as much as I can. And also join in the live chat when we launch our podcasts at 9 o'. Clock. We really see the Daily Beast community coming together and it's so exciting. One or two of you actually see seems to know each other. It's great. Sandra Clark, you seem to be pivotal to the community, so thank you for that. We've also got some books for you to sign from People. And while you're doing that. Very exciting. While you're doing that, I'm going to read another haikyuu, this one from Lilia and she calls it a trump. Haikyuu on tweeting. Midnight fingers fly. Losing war against Grammar. I'm mid haikyuu and I just have.
- [60:33]
A
To point out that books, when you sign, you're supposed to sign them on the title page. There's few things that I've learned as an author, but I've learned that.
- [60:41]
B
Okay, you said that last time you were on. I think it's about increasing the value for the. For the reader. I'm now going to read the haikyuu again from Lilia. Midnight fingers fly. Losing war against grammar. Sanity on mute. Sanity on mute. Okay, we've got one more book to sign. Thank you for your poems. Don't forget to subscribe to the Daily Beast. We are independent media, so we really appreciate your support. Leave us a comment and what else? Join us again on Saturday when we'll be back at 2 o' clock on Saturday on YouTube and at midnight wherever else you get your podcasts.
- [61:22]
A
See you then.
- [61:23]
B
See you then.
- [61:26]
A
Joanna. Hi. I have to tell you about something that we're obsessed with.
- [61:29]
B
I'm Kevin Fallon.
- [61:31]
A
And I'm Matt Wilstein and we are.
- [61:33]
B
Hosting Obsessed, the podcast about all the TV shows, movies and entertainment newsmakers that.
- [61:39]
A
We'Re all obsessed with. So make sure you subscribe to us on YouTube at the YouTube channel. Make sure you follow us wherever you get your podcasts.
- [61:47]
B
Just search for Obsessed the podcast and.
- [61:50]
A
We will see you there.
- [61:52]
B
Bee Beast Big thanks to our special bebeast tier of members. Here they are. Yvette Johnson, ME Thinks Batsio, Farrell Mills and Lynns Shelby, Max Cubitt, David Sherry, Thomas Moore, Maria Voltaine, D. Huger Watts, Cynthia Lund, John H. Overocker, Deb K. Ostrander, Sandra Clark, Travels With Carl, Andrew Beaver, Capinator Harry Clark, Dawn McCarthy, Daniel dog lover M. Griner, Dyestone Fulvia Orlando Herbie, Andrew Mellor Tattnall, Val Love, Francisco, Will Hutchison, Andrea Hodel Bocock D.C. sharon Shipley, Connie Rutherford, Karen White, and last but never least, Heidi Riley. And our production team, Devon Rogerino, Ryan Murray, Rachel Passer and Heather Passaro.
- [62:49]
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- [63:52]
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Flowers die in three days Matching Underwear.
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- [64:31]
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Acast Code acast.
- [64:37]
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Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily Beast podcast@thedailybeast.com podcasts if you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber.
- [64:49]
B
Subscribing is the best way to feed.
- [64:51]
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The Beast and support all of your.
- [64:53]
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Podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline.
- [64:57]
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Head to thedailybeast.com membership/podcast and sign up today.