The Real Reason Trump Talks Like an Idiot: Author

The Daily Beast Podcast with Joanna Coles & Kurt Andersen
Date: March 24, 2026

Overview

In this rich and energetic episode, host Joanna Coles sits down with Kurt Andersen — acclaimed author, journalist, co-founder of Spy magazine, and author of Fantasyland and Evil Geniuses — for a rollicking discussion dissecting Donald Trump’s language, persona, and the uniquely American qualities that fostered his rise. They traverse topics like Trump’s hyperbolic speech patterns, America’s cultural penchant for hucksterism and “clever humbug,” the blurred line between reality and fiction, and whether Trump genuinely believes his outlandish claims. The conversation also touches on cults of personality, the role of enablers and “disciples,” comparisons to historical figures like P.T. Barnum, the realities behind longstanding conspiracy theories (such as Jeffrey Epstein), and the intersection between show business and American politics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Maximalist Trump Lexicon & PT Barnum Parallels

• PT Barnum as Forefather:
  Andersen and Coles draw parallels between PT Barnum and Trump, highlighting their use of showmanship, spectacle, and attention-grabbing language to con, entertain, and enthrall the public regardless of truth.

  • “The great thing in that, one of the quotes… was he said… I can do that in an hour and a half. I can learn everything I need to know about missiles.” — Kurt Andersen [03:31]
  • PT Barnum “created the sense of a sensation before you’d even experienced it,” much like Trump and reality TV.

• Trump’s Hyperbolic Language:
  They break down how Trump’s speech uses “the best,” “nobody’s ever seen,” etc., as tools of attention, often detached from reality.

  • Coles lists some of Trump’s signature phrases:
    “Like nobody’s ever seen before, the likes of which we’ve never seen. The greatest. The best ever.” [25:19]

Does Trump Believe His Own Hype?

• Belief vs Performance:
  Andersen posits that Trump’s success stems from a sort of method acting, needing to believe his own story “in the moment” in order to sell it — even if fundamentally driven by cynicism rather than conviction.

  • “I don’t think he does in the end… but effective salesmen and con men do kind of sort of have to believe it in the moment, just like actors…” — Kurt Andersen [00:13, 25:54]
  • “His deep animating feature as a person is the most horrible, unpleasant, miserable, wretched cynicism about human behavior and that there are no good people, there are just suckers kind of thing.” [25:54]

• Blur of Delusion, Lying, Bullshitting:
  Andersen distinguishes between lying, bullshitting, and honest delusion in Trump, suggesting that with age and mental decline Trump may actually believe more of his own “bullshit” than before.

  • “He’s a bullshitter and just a constant one, as well as a liar. And those are slightly distinct things.” [26:59]
  • "He gets scarier when you sense he really does think he can just do this.” [26:59]

America: Land of Hucksters and True Believers

• Cultural Weakness for Cons:
  Andersen references his book Fantasyland, citing America’s historical fondness for being “conned” as both a form of entertainment and a byproduct of a religious, belief-driven culture.

  • “I can believe what I want because it’s the truth and it feels right. All that stuff, which is not uniquely American but it is definingly American.” [06:05]

• Hucksterism + Religiosity:
  The conversation explores the contradiction of Trump’s evangelical support despite his irreligiosity, linking it to a national predisposition to blur fact and fiction.

  • “It’s such an American story, this combination of religiosity, I guess sincere, and this kind of hucksterism. And that’s part of the story of America and how Trump came to be, even though he is irreligious and a nonbeliever, I think, pretty clearly.” — Andersen [11:14]

Showbiz Politics: From Kennedy to Trump

• Politics as Entertainment:
  They trace the evolution: Kennedy and Reagan as media-savvy, Clinton’s saxophone and scandals, Obama’s stardom — leading to Trump, the ultimate reality TV candidate who merges business, politics, and showbiz.

  • “Presidential politics had become kind of a category of show business… And this was certainly then and remains, if not unique about America, defining about America. Everything becomes show business in one way or another.” — Andersen [18:23, 17:36]

• Why Trump Won Twice:
  Trump’s outsider, anti-politician appeal, and his authenticity — however appalling — provided a marked contrast to traditional, perceived-hypocrite politicians.

  • “This guy came along, was unlike any politician ever.” — Andersen [16:06]
  • "People hate politicians. And he’s entertaining. And that’s the thing. And he understood that.” [16:08]

Cults and Enablers

• Trump’s Disciples:
  The hosts discuss Trump’s inner circle — true believers like Stephen Miller versus opportunists like JD Vance or Kristi Noem.

  • “Stephen Miller is kind of a disciple, I guess. He comes close to being a freakish true believer in his version of Donald Trump.” — Andersen [21:02]
  • "Most of them are, you know, higher on the cynicism axis, I think, than the credulous true believer." [21:47]

• Show Must Go On:
  Trump’s unpredictable behavior is likened to a TV show forced to “jump the shark” ever more perilously, putting the world (not just viewers) at risk.

  • “Just the having to, you know, jump the shark every so often in order to make people talk, make people watch.” — Andersen [34:15]
  • “His whole, I mean early on I remember in his first term somebody comparing him to the horrible little six year old who just keeps pushing his glass closer and closer to the edge of the table…” [28:21]

Evil Geniuses, Jared Kushner, and the Real Masters

• Kushner’s “Normie” Evil:
  Andersen tells tales of business dealings with Jared Kushner, labeling him “much more intelligent and normie-ish than his father-in-law… but basically untrustworthy.” [36:45]

  • Jared is not an “evil genius,” but rather a tool of them.
  • “Some of them are not geniuses at all. And certainly Donald Trump is not, nor is he an evil genius. He’s used by the evil geniuses and then has to come back to bite them in their various asses…” [37:39]

• Who Are the Real Evil Geniuses?
  Kochs, Musk, the donor class, and others who engineered the post-1970s economy. Trump is their “rabble mesmerizer,” a user and a pawn.

  • “The people who in the 1970s decided we gotta take control of this economy… hijacked the economy.” [38:09]

Jeffrey Epstein, Conspiracies, and America’s Reality Distortion

• Conspiracies with a Kernel of Truth:
  They dissect Epstein as both ancillary and illustrative of the blurred lines in elite America between power, vice, and impunity.

  • “The good ones, the successful [conspiracy theories], have a germ of some kind of truth. Right. They’re not nothing…” — Andersen [43:05]

• Epstein’s Death:
  Andersen explains his evolving skepticism about Epstein’s apparent suicide and the challenges of real secrecy in large-scale conspiracies.

  • "I still think it’s my problem with conspiracies too… as soon as more than three or four or six or whatever small number of people know about anything, it’s really hard to keep it a secret.” [45:49]
  • Now, “I’ve become less skeptical in the case of Jeffrey Epstein… because of the various fishy facts like the prison guards…” [48:29]

• Conspiracies as Bad Fiction:
  Andersen likens most conspiracy theories to “bad fiction” for their implausibility — but acknowledges that sometimes, “the world… is inexplicable and not obvious.” [46:38]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He’s an idiot. He’s always been stupid. And his stupidity has been an under remarked upon, under heralded part of his… Along with the lying, along with the mental disorders, the stupidity is important.” — Andersen [04:53]

• “America has always been the world leader in that kind of weak mindedness and slippery sense of the difference between reality and fiction.” — Andersen [06:05]

• “You know, once you get a country in which so much belief in any old thing you want and hear and disbelief in things that are true, anything goes.” — Andersen [12:41]

• On the Trump reality show style:
  “Every day is a new episode of the Donald Trump Show.” — Andersen [04:53]

• On Trump’s relationship with reality:
  “It’s hard to know from second to second where he believes it... he gets scarier when you sense he really does.” — Andersen [26:59]

• On Kushner:
  "My experience of him as a business person who is basically untrustworthy... I see how he fits into that family." — Andersen [36:45]

• On Evangelicals and Trump:
  “His most devoted supporters are evangelical Christians. Because once you get a country in which so much belief in any old thing you want and hear and disbelief in things that are true, anything goes.” — Andersen [12:41]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–04:08: PT Barnum, Spy Magazine, Trump’s old salesmanship, NY bluster
• 04:08–08:02: Trump’s loose relationship with the truth; Iran negotiation anecdote; American weakness for “fun cons”
• 09:27–11:14: Mark Burnett, reality TV, and creation of The Apprentice Trump persona
• 13:12–14:48: Trump’s behavior pre- and post-presidency, “short-fingered vulgarian” insult
• 15:18–18:23: Why Trump won (twice), authenticity vs. inauthenticity in politics; showbiz presidency through history
• 18:23–22:02: Cult of Trump, disciples and enablers, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Stephen Miller, JD Vance, opportunists
• 25:17–27:49: Trump’s maximalist speech, belief versus cynical salesmanship, bullshitting
• 28:21–30:19: Brinkmanship, pushing boundaries, American political fragility
• 31:46–32:54: Joseph Smith, Mormonism, believing absurdities, rationalists among religious
• 33:18–34:45: The appeal of being “in on the show” — politics as tribal, entertaining spectacle
• 34:45–36:45: The global scale: Trump jumping the shark, impact on real-world events (Iran, Ukraine)
• 36:43–39:35: Kushner business anecdote; who counts as “evil geniuses” in American plutocracy
• 39:40–42:21: Epstein, evil geniuses, and the intermingling of money, politics, and crime
• 43:05–46:38: Epstein conspiracy analysis, what conspiracies reveal about US mindset
• 48:29–end: Conspiracies as stories, reality vs. fiction, what keeps Americans consuming the “show”

Episode Takeaway

Coles and Andersen expertly illustrate how Trump is both a product and a master of America’s blurred lines between entertainment, hucksterism, and politics. Trump’s success springs from a society deeply primed to embrace showmen and “clever humbugs,” and, as Andersen notes, sometimes even wanting to be “in on the con.” The episode leaves listeners with the sobering reflection that Trump’s tactics — the hyperbole, the improvisation, the “ad-libbing us into war” — are not aberrations but rather the most extreme manifestations of American traditions. The conversation is threaded with sharp wit, dark humor, and an undercurrent of real concern for the fragility of the political system when it becomes all spectacle, no substance.