The Real Reason Trump's Lost His Mojo: Don Lemon

Summary

The Daily Beast Podcast

Episode Title: The Real Reason Trump's Lost His Mojo: Don Lemon
Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: Don Lemon
Release Date: December 15, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively and candid episode, Joanna Coles welcomes Don Lemon (of "Lemon Live") for a freewheeling conversation about Donald Trump’s apparent loss of momentum (“mojo”), the shifting foundations of MAGA, fallout from emerging Epstein files and photos, the intersections of gender, politics, and the media, and questions over Trump's health and fitness for office. The discussion is peppered with both sharp political insight and personal anecdotes, plus plenty of trademark wit from both host and guest.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Has Trump Lost His Mojo?

[03:03, 08:28]

• Don Lemon asserts that Trump is losing his appeal:

  "I think Donald Trump is losing his mojo. I do." (Don Lemon, 03:03)

• Lemon links this growing disillusionment to a foundation built on “conspiracy theories, lies, distractions and distortions” running up against economic realities.
• Trump’s repeated positive messaging about the economy rings hollow for Americans facing personal financial strain.

  “You can't go out there telling people, the economy's great... and they're like, wait a minute, I don't have any money.” (Don Lemon, 03:13)

• Coles references a series of events—Trump’s public fatigue, peculiar rallies, Epstein photo dumps, rising health premiums—as symbolic of this decline.

2. Personal Anecdote: Don Lemon's "Taxi Moment"

[04:50]

• An entertaining aside where Lemon recounts hearing his own show in a New York taxi driven by an unsuspecting fan, affirming his cultural relevance and reach.

3. MAGA Movement: End of an Era?

[08:28, 11:52]

• Lemon suggests MAGA may be going the way of the Tea Party—disintegrating or mutating—citing Marjorie Taylor Greene as the first “domino to fall” among prominent defectors.
• Other Republicans (Lauren Boebert, Nancy Mace) are showing increasing independence, especially in matters like the Epstein files.
• Lawmakers still fear Trump’s hold over their base but are slowly realizing real political capital lies with constituents, not with Trump.

4. GOP Healthcare Policy and Political Strategy

[09:30]

• Coles and Lemon both question how GOP lawmakers remain blind to the unpopularity of doubling or tripling health care premiums, which undercuts their own electoral prospects.

  “How do they not think this isn’t going to be a huge thing for people?” (Joanna Coles, 09:30)

5. Epstein Files and New Fallout

[12:13–20:06]

• Discussion of newly released Epstein photos and their significance, especially Trump’s ties to Epstein.
• Don notes how Trump tries deflecting attention by naming Democrats, ignoring Republicans also implicated.

  "He talks about all the Democrats who are in the files... but he doesn't mention Steve Bannon or Alan Dershowitz." (Don Lemon, 13:41)

• Debate over redacting women’s faces in the photos: Lemon argues that high-profile men should be identified due to their influence, but average women deserve privacy.

  “If you are friendly with one of the most prolific sex traffickers in modern history, I think that's important for the American people to know.” (Don Lemon, 15:06)

Notable Quotes

• On the photos:

  “Maybe we've known it all along. But to say it's not new information is false. It is new information. It shows how buddy, buddy they were.” (Don Lemon, 13:03)

• On double standards:

  “Shouldn't the men's face be redacted?”
  “Not the high profile men... there's a difference between a public figure and an average, everyday person.” (Joanna Coles/Don Lemon, 14:55)

Other High-Profile Figures Named

• Kathy Rummler, former Obama White House counsel, now at Goldman Sachs, is called out for her close relationship with Epstein, reflecting the bipartisan nature of the fallout.
• Lemon emphasizes that all implicated parties (Democrat or Republican) must be held to account.

6. Gender, Hypermasculinity, and the "Manosphere"

[23:24–26:31]

• Coles and Lemon discuss the influence of Andrew Tate, Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, and the "manosphere" in shaping young men's perceptions of masculinity—often in troubling directions.

  "Millions and millions and millions of young men... get their information from Andrew Tate or Joe Rogan..." (Don Lemon, 24:54)

• The "tradwife" traditionalist trend in right-wing politics is critiqued as "determinedly unmodern."
• MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE, Lauren Boebert, Nancy Mace are cited as unexpected advocates for female victims, demanding Epstein file releases.

7. Media, Gatekeepers, and Trump’s Strategy

[46:39]

• Lemon distinguishes between frontline journalists (doing commendable work) and “gatekeepers” (media executives, owners) who restrict what stories get told due to fear of government retribution.

  “The journalists are not the problem, it's the gatekeepers... they have jobs, they don't want to lose their jobs..." (Don Lemon, 46:49)

• Coles points to the Wall Street Journal as an example of an outlet bucking that trend.

8. Trump’s Health, Fatigue, and Cognitive Decline

[50:16–53:19]

• Coles and Lemon discuss Trump’s apparent physical and cognitive decline: mismatched foundation makeup, visible bruises, cankles, fatigue, and episodes of falling asleep during meetings.

  “Donald Trump can’t walk in a straight line... He confuses people. Has he lost a step? Yes.” (Don Lemon, 51:15)

• Lemon is skeptical that the administration is being honest about Trump’s health.

9. 2026 Midterms & Trump's Political Future

[35:45–39:43]

• Lemon suggests the prospect of proper, fair midterms is dwindling as the administration attempts to “game the system”—with gerrymandering, distractions, and autocratic tendencies.

  “I think the chances of us having a proper midterm are diminishing day by day by day.” (Don Lemon, 39:43)

• Trump is said to be stubbornly out of touch—ignoring evidence of flagging public support and surrounding himself with loyalists rather than competent advisors.

10. Predictions: Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Comeback?

[32:09–35:45]

• Lemon forecasts Marjorie Taylor Greene’s possible return to politics, perhaps as a presidential candidate or even founder of a new "America First" party.

  “She may be the new leader... Maybe what she said on 60 Minutes is the party she’ll be leader of, the America First party.” (Don Lemon, 35:08)

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Notable & Memorable Quotes

• On Trump’s Reality Distortion:

  “The economy’s great, gas prices are way down, energy is great… And people were leaving the rally... saying the president is wrong, that he’s delusional as it relates to the economy.” (Don Lemon, 37:57)

• On Media Control:

  “He should never be weighing in on a news organization that way.” (Don Lemon, 48:12)

• On Democracy & Accountability:

  “We need guardrails as it relates to a president. Not all presidents are going to abide by the rules...” (Don Lemon, 45:56)

• On Politicians’ Motivations:

  “Loyal and damaged because they know that I would not be able to have this opportunity under any other president and at any other moment.” (Don Lemon, 42:06)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Trump’s Mojo & MAGA’s Decline:
  [03:03], [08:28]
• Personal Taxi Story (Lemon):
  [04:50]
• Epstein Files, Republican Lawmakers’ Shift:
  [11:52], [12:13]
• Gender, Masculinity, and Politics:
  [23:24]
• Media Dynamics & Trump’s Media Influence:
  [46:39], [47:27]
• Trump’s Declining Health:
  [50:16]
• Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Possible Return:
  [32:09], [35:08]
• Midterms & Threats to Democracy:
  [39:43]

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Tone & Style

The episode’s tone is incisive and highly conversational, blending punchy political critique with personal banter and moments of levity. Both hosts show impatience for political hypocrisy and competence, yet remain optimistic (“I’m an optimist… I do think that in a weird way, it’s kind of good that this happened”—Don Lemon, 45:40).

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Overall Takeaway

This episode paints a portrait of a political era in flux: Donald Trump’s grip is visibly loosening, beset by scandal, fatigue, and electoral backlash, while the MAGA movement struggles to find new footing. The media’s role, the Republican party’s fractures, and the shadow of Epstein loom large over American political culture. Simultaneously, debates over gender, power, and accountability gain new prominence, with surprise figures stepping into the breach.

Final thought from Don Lemon on what comes next:

“Sometimes people... have a change of heart... I hope there’s some sort of evolution for her. And if she starts to show that in her actions, then I’ll say more power to her... But right now it’s too early and there’s too much history...” (Don Lemon, 35:06)

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Be sure to watch for Don Lemon’s upcoming New Year’s Eve special from New Orleans!

Transcript

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[Don Lemon]

I think Donald Trump is losing his mojo. I do.

[Joanna Coles]

And do you think this is. Is it partly his health? Is it the economy? Is it all of it?

[Don Lemon]

I think it's all of the above. I think that if you build something based on conspiracy theories and a lot of lies and a lot of distractions and distortions, eventually people start to see through it and they become disillusioned. And you can't go out there telling people, the economy's great. The economy's great. The economy's great. This is the best economy ever. And they're like, wait a minute, I don't have any money. My energy bills are up. My utility bills are crazy.

[Joanna Coles]

I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast. Big thanks to Hugh Doherty for holding the fall. I cannot compete with his accent, but I can compete with curiosity and what the hell has been going on since I've been out of the country for whatever it was, 10 days. So Pennsylvania rally, Epstein photos. Health premiums going up, the economy beginning to falter, and Donald Trump falling asleep pretty much all the time. And then his strange, slow, whatever descent down the White House stairs for the Congressional ball, buoyed up physically by the First Lady. It's always good to see her, as you know. I'm particularly intrigued by her movements. Anyway, who better to discuss this with? And who has more opinions than Don Lemon from Lemon Live. Don Lemon, live in the studio. Don. So, Don, welcome.

[Don Lemon]

Hi. Joanna Coles. How are you?

[Joanna Coles]

I'm very well. I hear you just had a meta moment.

[Don Lemon]

I did. Okay, so if there's any. You're in those moods, you're like, what am I doing? I'm working so hard, that kind of thing. And so I'm not feeling well. And the only reason I did this was because of you. I do. I love you.

[Joanna Coles]

Thank you.

[Don Lemon]

So I jump in a taxi, and, like, walking down the street, I jump in a taxi and I get in and I hear the open to my show, the music. And I look, I was like, oh, my God. I left the show. I looked on the thing, and it's like, it's not on my phone. And I looked at the driver. Well, I looked up on the little box at first. You know, the little taxi thing.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, Taxi TV screen.

[Don Lemon]

The screen. I was like, I'm not on taxi tv. And then the driver is playing me in his car on his cell phone, and it's Coming through the speakers in the car. And. And he has it sitting right in the middle on the dash of the steering wheel. And so I said. And I just let it play for a while. And I said to him, I said, what are you listening to? And he said, lemon. And I said, do you listen to him all the time? He goes, yeah, every day. And I said, do you recognize me? And he turned around and he goes, oh, man. So, Joanna, that was confirmation to keep going.

[Joanna Coles]

That is confirmation to keep going. So, too, may I say, is your merchant.

[Don Lemon]

Don't you love my merch? You love mine.

[Joanna Coles]

I mean, I'm distressed you haven't bought me some of your merch.

[Don Lemon]

I'll get you some.

[Joanna Coles]

I should probably buy some. Cause we all have to support each other. But this is fabulous. So this is lemon live.

[Don Lemon]

Thank you.

[Joanna Coles]

With Don Lemon.

[Don Lemon]

It's cold. I have a cold. So sorry for all of the thing, but I'm in the.

[Joanna Coles]

And also, what I like is the color scheme of navy and yellow. Really good. Nice shade of yellow and good shade navy. Because navy's hard to get right.

[Don Lemon]

Thank you.

[Joanna Coles]

Did you spend a lot of time organizing it?

[Don Lemon]

No, not really. I like the colors. There's one that has a light blue one. Same color, blue. And there's one that has black letters on navy. On navy.

[Joanna Coles]

That's hard to read. Black, navy, red letters. No, no. Okay.

[Don Lemon]

Red letters on navy. And then the light blue letters on navy.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay. So real fans will get all three.

[Don Lemon]

All three. And the merch is crazy. I have Christmas ornaments.

[Joanna Coles]

You have Christmas ornaments.

[Don Lemon]

I should have brought you.

[Joanna Coles]

I mean, you should have brought us a. I mean, I feel embarrassed because when I was watching your show, as you know, I'm a religious fan. You've got two Christmas trees in the background. Not one, but two. We don't have a single Christmas ornament.

[Don Lemon]

I do.

[Joanna Coles]

Producer, get on it, please.

[Don Lemon]

Look at that. Okay, so this is. That's my. You see, that's my Christmas. My holiday stuff.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, that's very cool.

[Don Lemon]

And then right here, that's the ornament. It's really cute. And it's glass.

[Joanna Coles]

That is little lemon head. I want people to be able to see it. That is very sweet. In a white gloved Santa ham.

[Don Lemon]

And I have a New Year's Eve box.

[Joanna Coles]

You have a New Year's. What's in your New Year's Eve box?

[Don Lemon]

I think there are champagne flutes and.

[Joanna Coles]

You don't seem to know.

[Don Lemon]

It's champagne flutes and little party favor things.

[Joanna Coles]

Those poppers.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. And you Know the little hats and the glass that says the champagne? Glass says New Year's Eve with Don Lemon. I'm doing a New Year's Eve special.

[Joanna Coles]

Of course you are. Right. So will you be counting down?

[Don Lemon]

So I'll be counting down in New Orleans, and you get to count down twice because it's the central time zone. I can't find the champagne thing, but it's a champagne. It's a. I'm sorry. It's a New Year's Eve box.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, so if they go to celebrate with us, what is it?

[Don Lemon]

Don't click on merch.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay. All right. So you're having a better week than I think the president. Yeah. Even though you've got a cold, but you've seen yourself on. On the phone of the driver. He's probably now telling all his passengers, I've just had Don Lemon in the back of my cab.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. And he made sure we got a selfie before I got out.

[Joanna Coles]

Sweet. That's such a good New York story.

[Don Lemon]

You're right. I've been feeling this for a while. I think we may have talked about it when you and I have spoken on previous podcasts, but I know I've talked about it. I think this was the beginning of the end of maga. Either it's going away, or it's going to go the way of a tea Party, or it's rejiggering itself or whatever it's doing. But I think Donald Trump is losing his mojo. I do.

[Joanna Coles]

And do you think this isis it partly his health? Is it the economy? Is it all of it?

[Don Lemon]

I think it's all of the above. I think that if you build something based on conspiracy theories and a lot of lies and a lot of distractions and distortions, eventually people start to see through it, and. And they become disillusioned. And you can't go out there telling people, the economy's great, the economy's great, the economy's great. This is the best economy ever. And they're like, wait a minute. I don't have any money. My energy bills are up, My utility bills are crazy.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. And just wait till you get your.

[Don Lemon]

Health care bill and just. Oh, my gosh. And so all of that, even now, the Senate and the Congress, they can't even come together on healthcare.

[Joanna Coles]

So, Don, explain to me why Republicans can't understand what's going to happen when. When healthcare premiums rise double treble in some cases. How do they not think this isn't going to be a huge thing for people?

[Don Lemon]

You mean Republicans in general are lawmakers. You're talking about Republican lawmakers.

[Joanna Coles]

I mean Republican, I mean Congress people, anybody that requires a vote to be re elected. I don't understand how they think this is a winning strategy to, to have signed the big beautiful bill, to have given a tax benefit to billionaires and then to tax regular people, the people that they said they were going to improve the economy for, double their health care premiums.

[Don Lemon]

This is all addition to added to what Republicans have been doing on healthcare for a decade. They've been saying we have a plan, we don't like Obamacare, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. In the meantime, the insurance companies CEOs are getting richer. I mean look, it's terrible what happened to the UnitedHealthcare CEO, but that was the sentiment behind, we believe, behind what the young man did. Right.

[Joanna Coles]

So how can Republicans think this is a good long term strategy?

[Don Lemon]

I don't think they. I think they think in this moment that Donald Trump can get them out of anything, although they're becoming disillusioned themselves with it. I think that they still believe that Donald Trump has a hold on their constituents and if they go against him, then they too will, Bethey will be voted out of office.

[Joanna Coles]

But are these people not talking to their constituents? I mean, I think Marjorie Taylor Greene's resignation. Well, what do you think? How significant a resignation?

[Don Lemon]

I don't think that they are as forward thinking as Marjorie Taylor Greene. Marjorie Taylor Greene had to be forced into it, I think because she got boxed out of a Senate seat. So sometimes unless when you're forced out of things, you are pushed into a position of awareness that you wouldn't have an awakening that she had. And I believe she did have an awakening. I'm not sure if I believe everything on top of it. I think it's strategic. But I think other folks have not gotten to that moment yet where the real political capital is with their constituents and not with Donald Trump.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

And so, but I do believe that increasingly Republican lawmakers are seeing that and they're becoming disillusioned. And I think Marjorie Taylor Greene is just the first domino to fall in this. There will be others. There's Lauren Boebert, there are others, Nancy Mace. They're still supporting the president, but not on every issue. Not on the Epstein issue.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. So we saw a dump of new Epstein photos this on Friday. What did you make of those? How closely did you study them? Perhaps not as myopically as I did.

[Don Lemon]

I watched, I looked to see if I knew any of the faces and there's one. I don't know. I don't know if you saw the one with Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein. And in the foreground, there's a blonde woman with short hair.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. Is that Eva Dubin?

[Don Lemon]

Is that who it is?

[Joanna Coles]

I think it's Eva Dubin.

[Don Lemon]

I was trying to figure out who it was, and I was like, is she a Miss Universe, A Miss America, A Miss so Many?

[Joanna Coles]

She was a Miss Sweden. They're always amiss. Something.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yes.

[Don Lemon]

And I said that, you know, this morning on my show. Okay. So I studied them. You know, there was someone in my chat who said, oh, we've known this all along. I said, well, maybe we've known it all along. But to say it's not new information is false. It is new information.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

It shows how buddy, buddy they were. The closeness in their relationship, that proximity, time. They spent a lot of time together at different events. Donald Trump admits that they were friends, but he downplays the relationship. You know, they weren't best friends, but according to Jeffrey Epstein, they were best friends. I think these photos are significant, and let me tell you why they're significant. Becauseand I believe Donald Trump may have already seen the files himself, or he has been briefed on what's in the files, because every single person that he mentions when he's trying to distract, it's Larry Summers, it's Bill Clinton.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

It's this other Democrat, but he doesn't mention Steve Bannon or Alan Dershowitz, who's been, you know, carrying Trump's water for the last couple years. But he talks about all the Democrats who are in the files that I wasn't sure were in those files. I don't know if it was public knowledge, maybe. I mean, Bill Clinton, we've heard about.

[Joanna Coles]

That, but Bill Gates, we heard about.

[Don Lemon]

But he's mentioning people that I think the general public were not necessarily aware about. Maybe there were rumors, and he's saying, oh, it's a Democratic, you know, hoax and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, why are you mentioning all the people who are in those photographs right now?

[Joanna Coles]

Because he's seen them. Right.

[Don Lemon]

Because he's seen them, or he's either he's seen them or he was in proximity with them when it happened. Oh, no, of course.

[Joanna Coles]

That's interesting. Right. And what did you make of the fact that the Democrats redacted the photos of the women, which they've said all along they would redact the photos of the victims?

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

What are they? Do we know These women were victims.

[Don Lemon]

I don't know if they were victims, but I think that they should be protected. Because just because you're in a photograph with someone, it doesn't mean that you were in cahoots with them or that you were either a victim or you were a participant in whatever was going on.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, doesn't that go for the men, too, then? Shouldn't the men's face be rejected?

[Don Lemon]

Not the high profile men? No, because I think there's a difference between a public figure and just an average, everyday person.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay.

[Don Lemon]

For public figures, if you're a president of the United States or whether it's Bill Clinton or Donald Trump or whomever, and if you are, inyou know, if you are friendly with one of the most prolific sex traffickers in modern history, I think that's important for the American people to know, because those are the people who are shaping policy and the zeitgeist and worldviews. But I don't think that a woman or an innocent person who is just at a party should be identified, because that may tar them, you know?

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

And also, we don't know if they're victims. Perhaps they are. So I do think that those women should be protected in those photographs. And even if there are men who are just some random person at a party or an event. Joanna, you've been at events. I've been at events. I was at a Hollywood Reporter event, and I was talking to a young man who worked for msnbc. And there was this man behind me with his back to me talking to someone else. And the photographer was, where you are? And the photographer said, hey, can I get a picture of you too? And I just looked around. I said, sure. And I looked. And this is before everything happened. It was Harvey Weinstein.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

And so the guy just goes, okay, great, thank you. Walked away. I didn't think about it. Oh, good to see you. And I continue to talk to the other person. This is before the scandal, but someone would see that picture and say, oh, my God, Don Lemon is friends with Harvey Weinstein. I wasn't friends with Harvey Weinstein.

[Joanna Coles]

Right, right.

[Don Lemon]

I hardly knew him.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. Well, photos can be deceptive like that. Except that these photos, everybody seems to be lauding Jeffrey Epstein. There are people enjoying his hospitality on the private plane. Larry Summers and his wife, Woody Allen, I think. So it's.

[Don Lemon]

If you're with them or you're in a number of photographs. If I'm in a number of photographs with the same person at different events or at my home, that's a whole other thing.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, and most of these appear to be at Jeffrey's home or homes, we should say. There's one with Richard Branson on the island. He's someone who's going to have to deal with the fallout of this, I think.

[Don Lemon]

Richard Branson. Yeah, I think. I didn't know that.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. There's a picture of Richard Branson, Dean Kamens, who's the guy that created the Segway, and Jeffrey Epstein. And they appear to be somewhere tropical, which I'm assuming is his island, though it could have been Richard Branson's island.

[Don Lemon]

That also doesn't mean that they knew. You know, I mean, let's.

[Joanna Coles]

No, of course not. And I'm not suggesting they did know.

[Don Lemon]

How do you know they didn't know? I guess you'd have to ask, but still.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. But the implicit.

[Don Lemon]

Here's the difference.

[Joanna Coles]

It's implicit that somehow pals of Jeffrey's and having a good time with him.

[Don Lemon]

I think you say, look, you know, I knew Jeffrey Epstein. I had no idea what was happening and what he deserves. Whatever. And you know, you can check it out, whatever statement that you want to release. When you're just an average everyday person, you don't have the platform or are really the capabilities of releasing a statement that everybody's going to put to exonerate yourself. I think these people, I think Richard Branson has agency as people he can deal with it and others, they can deal with that.

[Joanna Coles]

What do you think about. Have you been following Kathy Rummler, the general counsel at Goldman Sachs?

[Don Lemon]

No, I have not. What is going on? I can.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, CNN did a story, having really worked through the emails, that there were more than 100 emails from Kathy Rummler, who's the former general counsel, White House counsel to President Obama, she's now the general counsel at Goldman Sachs, clearly showing that they had a great relationship, that she was a frequent visitor to Jeffrey's house, that at one point she was giving him advice about how to deal with the media, trying to, you know, close in on him. So that seems also an interesting relationship that we haven't heard much about.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, well, it doesn't matter if you're Democrat or Republican or if you have. If you're doing something and it needs explaining, it needs to be explained and whatever the consequences are, I think I don't care what your political and I think most people don't care what your political leanings are. It has to be dealt with. You have to suffer the consequences. I don't know that story, but if she was giving advice. Was it on a professional level or.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, she says they had a professional relationship, but clearly they were friends from the emails.

[Don Lemon]

But she's using. Saying that because. Is she an attorney?

[Joanna Coles]

She's an attorney. I mean, she was literally President Obama's counsel, White House counsel, and she's now the general counsel of Goldman Sachs. So it doesn't get much better than that. It's the first woman, senior woman that's been close to him that's got caught up in it. We're used to watching senior men get felled by their adjacency to Epstein, but this is the first time a woman, I think, has gotten caught up in it.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. Even still, I don't know if she knew. I mean, maybe she thought he was dealing with scandal and maybe they were friends. I don't know. I don't want to cast aspersions on people that I don't really know. I don't feel, you know, knowledgeable enough to. To respond.

[Joanna Coles]

Totally fair. Totally fair. I'm curious about it because it's come across a woman getting caught up in it. And also because she was President Obama's counsel, which he had amazing connections. Jeffrey Epstein, you know, I still find it astonishing that he was running this horrible network of girls. And then on the surface, he had all these incredible connections and he was validated by all these other people.

[Don Lemon]

You're not surprised by that? That Joanna?

[Joanna Coles]

I'm kind of.

[Don Lemon]

He was a very rich man and he had influence and look, he owned an island and a plane. And let me just say, do you know, I don't know what some of my friends do in the privacy of.

[Joanna Coles]

Their homes, but the scale of this network, this industrialized network of girls is, I think, unparalleled.

[Don Lemon]

Yes, that part is. But I'm just saying, I'm responding to the general counsel. I forget her name, but.

[Joanna Coles]

Cassie Rumruff.

[Don Lemon]

Sometimes you don't know what your friends are doing, and maybe you should be more aware. But people. I'm sure there were people who were close to him who did know. I don't think that every single friend or acquaintance with Jeffrey Epstein had an idea or knew what he was doing. So I don't think that they should be somehow tainted because they knew or had a relationship or sent an email one time.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it's a very interesting question. At this point, they knew he had been in jail for soliciting underage girls.

[Don Lemon]

That's true. That is true.

[Joanna Coles]

Do you have many friends that have gone to jail for that?

[Don Lemon]

No. True.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

Yes. You're right about that.

[Joanna Coles]

And I'm not saying that they knew that it was going on contemporaneously with their friendship post his jail. But I do wonder about it.

[Don Lemon]

I do, too. And I don't really have a good answer for that, because if I had a friend who I don't know if I would still be friends with that person, I doubt that I would be. And if they were, because he was found guilty and he had to, didn't he have to, like, go to serve time on weekends or something?

[Joanna Coles]

He had a sweetheart deal.

[Don Lemon]

Donald Trump's person.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. Alex Acosta, based in Florida. And he went to jail. I think he was sentenced for 18 months, but he served 13. And most of the time he was on work release. So he slept in the prison, but he was free to work. And my understanding is that he was continuing his behavior even when he was having to spend the nights in jail.

[Don Lemon]

But also, you have to remember, it was a different time then. You know, this was pre. Me too. Right. And so.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

I'm not saying it's right, it's totally wrong, but society had a different sort of response to those things right now.

[Joanna Coles]

Society's always had a fairly knee jerk horror at the idea of underage prostitution.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, Well, I don't, I'm not seeing underage prostitution. I'm not talking about underage girls. Yeah. But I guess that was part of it. I was just talking about people who are, you know, I guess, sort of trafficked. That's always been terrible. But I just think that now people, there's, there's an immediate response to, you know, you can't do this, you're not getting a sweetheart deal.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

Times are different.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

And so those things that may have been allowed back in the 90s or the 80s, terrible. They should not have been allowed. But those are the times that we lived in.

[Joanna Coles]

I know you say that, but then you look at the fact that the Trumps appear to have been behind Andrew Tate and his brother getting out of Romania.

[Don Lemon]

There's your answer. What's behind all of this? There's your answer. It's men being men. And the New York Times report was very damning.

[Joanna Coles]

No, I was going to say, I've given birth to two men. I hope that they would never be involved in this. This is not all men.

[Don Lemon]

No, it's not all men.

[Joanna Coles]

It's not all men. And not all men are rapists.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, of course not. That's not what we're saying here.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay.

[Don Lemon]

But men, you know, I think men have a tendency to be, you know, more of ogres and sexual. Whatever. Well, sexually violent than women do. It's just usually not in a woman's nature. And, you know, there's not that much testosterone and whatever. But men have gotten away from. With that for so long, they feel entitled. Not all of them, but some of them. And because we're talking about, when you mentioned the Tate brothers, we're talking about the extremes of the sexes, the gender, not just the normal everyday man.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. But their ability to somehow monetize it with this idea of the manosphere and this sort of impulsive. Right. But it's. But they have followers and they have influence in a really negative way on young men.

[Don Lemon]

Millions and millions and millions of young men. And during the election in 2024, I interviewed a lot of those young men who got their information from Andrew Tate or Joe Rogan or.

[Joanna Coles]

Or Jordan Peterson.

[Don Lemon]

Jordan Peterson. And all of those kinds of folks who are like, you know, it's this hyper masculinity thing. Right. What it is to be a man. And so that's what I'm talking about. But it's terrible.

[Joanna Coles]

I know.

[Don Lemon]

I don't understand it because that's really not what it's like to be a man at all.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I would hope not. I would hope not. Otherwise it would be so depressing to be a man.

[Don Lemon]

It's not what it should be like to be a man. I think that men should be. I think that we should teach women to be protectors of themselves, and I think men should be protectors of women as well. But in society, you. But in today's society, especially in this sort of hyper masculine culture that's on the right, the man is the head of the household. He leads the household. The woman is at home with kids. We need to have more children. And, you know, this whole tradwife thing, that's what the right is preaching. And a lot of young men are buying into that.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it was Erica Kirk's new philosophy. It was Charlie Kirk's politics philosophy. Right. The Lord is at the top of the household, then the man, and then hopefully the man is good enough for the woman to follow.

[Don Lemon]

That's why I think the conservatives in the MAGA right now, it's a conundrum with them.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it just feels so determinedly unmodern.

[Don Lemon]

But that's why, again, back to unmodern. And that's why you have the Marjorie Taylor Greene's, the Lauren Boeberts and the Nancy Maces of the world saying that this administration does not protect women.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. And who knew that it would be Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert and Nancy Mace leaning into that and supporting Thomas Massie and Ro Khanna in demanding the release of the Epstein file.

[Don Lemon]

But I think Thomas Massie is a real, is the real hero and champion in all of this. I really think that he is. And look, and I have to give as much as, you know, I have disagreed and I don't like Marjorie Taylor Greene's history, you know, of her actions and what she's done. I have to give her credit for what she is doing with the Epstein files. Saying that they should be released and standing up for women.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. And the idea that you support the victims as opposed to the perpetrators too, which is also important. I mean, who's been protected here? The women haven't been protected.

[Don Lemon]

But I was just going to say it seems like the men are being protected and I don't know what happened to them.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, Donald Trump keeps saying we can't vilify the men. We mustn't, you know, we shouldn't be.

[Don Lemon]

Using their names, the men who are in the files.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, yeah.

[Don Lemon]

Come on, Joanna. You know, of course he's saying that while he is helping to reportedly get the Tate brothers released from Romania from whatever they were in exile or in house arrest in Romania.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. Don, hold that thought. We're just gonna take some ads.

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[Joanna Coles]

And I'm back with Don Lemon of Lemon Live. Barron Trump is now supposed to be talking to the Tates.

[Don Lemon]

Would you okay as a parent if your kid said, hey, I'm going to go hang out, I'm going to go to dinner or I'm going to go out to hang out to a bar or club with the Tates. What would you say?

[Joanna Coles]

Well, you know, hopefully I will never have to deal with that situation. But obviously I'd be appalled. I'd be appooled.

[Don Lemon]

My mom would say, no, you're not. You're staying your ass in this house. And if you go, I'm going with you.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, well, that's actually the way I probably say, can I come too? Because I would want to find out about them. Yeah, so does Marjorie Taylor Greene. Do you think she leaves politics forever?

[Don Lemon]

I love you. You're hilarious. No, I don't think she leaves forever.

[Joanna Coles]

You think she's coming back?

[Don Lemon]

I think she's coming back. And I think she wants to come back either maybe as governor and maybe she wants to run for president, or she'll come back as a contribut on CNN or somewhere else or at some station which is in itself political because she's going to be talking about politics and what's happening in the world.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I was thinking Carolyn Levitt must be coming to the end of her. She must be running out of patience with this job. And she must be just thinking, when do I get my Fox News gig? Right.

[Don Lemon]

I had a conversation with a friend about that just last night at dinner who is a talent agent.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, interesting.

[Don Lemon]

Does not believe what you're saying. Believes that she loves it. She was built for this. And after this, she's gonna have a much bigger career. She's probably gonna end up at Fox News.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, of course. I mean, I see her with the primetime show on Fox News with her machine gun lips, just doing her thing.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, yeah. The interesting part of that is if she had to work at a network or at a place where she had to rely on and abide by facts and truth, she would not have this sort of rapid. Would you say shotgun? Would you say machine gun? Machine gun, yeah. Because she couldn't just.

[Joanna Coles]

I can't speak as fast as she could.

[Don Lemon]

She couldn't just lie about and just say anything. She'd have to. And they would say, you can't say that because it's not true. And then she'd have to go, what do you mean? Well, it's not true.

[Joanna Coles]

Fox News will be ideal for her.

[Don Lemon]

It'll be perfect for her.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, yeah, it'll be perfect for her. Okay, so you think Marjorie Taylor Greene may come back, possibly in a run for president. I could see that she might want to be the first female president.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. Wouldn't it be amazing?

[Joanna Coles]

Look again, what a turn up for events.

[Don Lemon]

I think, first of all, I don't believe it. Now. I am willing to believe it at some point. I hope that people have epiphanies and they have a change of heart. And, you know, sometimes people can. Maybe they get a Sodium Pentothal shot and Pentothal shot and they a truth serum. And they realize, oh, my gosh, I must tell the truth. So I hope there's some sort of evolution for her. And if she starts to show that in her actions, then I'll say more power to her and I'll give her her credit. But right now it's too early and there's too much history of her doing the wrong thing. And I don't just mean ideologically, but the way that she speaks to people, the way that she treated a sitting president of the United States, the lack of respect that she has for people, you know, the things that just came out of her mouth, the conspiracy theories that qanon that got her to that position. And so that's going to take a while for me. And I believe most Americans to get on the Marjorie Taylor Greene bandwagon. She's going to have to change a lot of minds if she wants to have, you know, the possibility of being the President of the United States one day.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. Or the new leader of maga.

[Don Lemon]

So, Donald Trump, she may be a new leader. It may not be maga. It may be another party. Maybe. Maybe what she said on 60 Minutes is the party that she's going to be the leader of, and that is the America first party. So maybe she will start her own party, but they will say they're going.

[Joanna Coles]

To start their own party. I mean, Elon Musk said he was going to do that, and nobody actually does.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, Elon Musk has the capital, financial capital, the resources to be able to do that. But I don't believe he has the political savvy to do it. Marjorie Taylor Greene does, and in a surprising way.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, so President Trump seems to be. President Trump seems to have a sense that all is not going well. He's getting back out on the road. He did his Pennsylvania rally. I missed it. I was out of the country. Fill me in.

[Don Lemon]

Okay. So I can't sit through a whole rally. So I just watch the clips because it's ridiculous. But it is believed there are two reasons why he did that rally while he. That his staff asked him or sort of pushed him out there to do the rally. One is because he's getting in the way.

[Joanna Coles]

He's getting in the way.

[Don Lemon]

He's getting in the way of their work that they're doing in the West Wing and in Washington. And so they want him out.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Don Lemon]

Right. They want to, you know, okay. Create some distance so they can get some stuff Done. That is what the reporting. And you know, when they say the streets are talking, the other thing is, is that they see he's underwater on his numbers, on the economy, on health care, and his. It's even dropped with immigration, although that's his best one, immigration.

[Joanna Coles]

But specifically on the ICE and all the videos we're seeing, these horrible videos.

[Don Lemon]

That'S taking his numbers down with immigration. So they told him, you have to stop saying affordability as a hoax. You have to get out there. These are the reports. You have to get out there and you have to tell people that it's not a hoax and that you have to get them on your side because your numbers are dropping and you're losing support. And then the first thing he does, he gets out there and he says it's, you know, the Democrats, it's a Democrat hoax, affordability. They come up with these affordability numbers and they think it. And then my staff says, you know, I shouldn't say it, but I'll say it. It's a hoax. And he says, the economy's great, gas prices are way down, energy is great. You got more. You have more money, and you don't have to buy your kids $37, you just buy them two or whatever, which he's preaching. That's what is it, austerity. That's what he's teaching, austerity, which is like North Korea or, you know, the Soviet Russia.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. Because this is the land where people can buy things.

[Don Lemon]

This is a land of plenty.

[Joanna Coles]

This is the land of 30 dol.

[Joe from Vanta]

Yes.

[Don Lemon]

And so people were leaving. There was someone who spoke at the rally who said her money wasn't going as far as it was. And I was like, he didn't hear that woman. And then people were leaving the rally. The few people, the couple hundred people who did show up to that rally, right, they were leaving saying the president is wrong, that he's delusional as it relates to the economy.

[Joanna Coles]

So has he lost his ability to understand the room? Cause one of the things that people have always said about him is that when he's in the room, he can read the room. He understands what people want to hear here. But people don't want to be told that they can't buy 30.

[Don Lemon]

But in a way, he doesn't have to because he's president now and got him into office. And so now he's just running roughshod. And he wants to do what he wants to do. He wants to become a real billionaire. And he has become a real billionaire after Being in office, he wants to make his friends rich. He's doing it. He wants to make the rich people richer. He doesn't care about poor people. He doesn't care about working class people.

[Joanna Coles]

He never has losing the midterms. Doesn't he care about losing the House?

[Don Lemon]

Well, he does care about losing, so it doesn't matter about his policies. The way he's trying to win the midterms is through gerrymandering, is through trying to steal seats from Democrats. So he doesn' tit doesn't matter what comes out of his mouth. He doesn't really care. So he'll find a way to do it illegally. Ori don't know if it's illegally, but in some nefarious way he's going to game the system in order to do it and then continue to push whatever he wants to push through, and that's to make himself richer.

[Joanna Coles]

Do you think that we will have proper midterms? Do you think they will actually interfere with them? I mean, remember the big lie. How can we forget that?

[Don Lemon]

I think the chances of us having a proper midterm are diminishing day by day by day.

[Joanna Coles]

Do you really?

[Don Lemon]

I do, yes.

[Joanna Coles]

That's alarming.

[Don Lemon]

It is, but it's giving me hope when you look at what Indiana did.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, let's talk about Indiana.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. Well, Indiana, the court there blocked the gerrymandering that the Republicans wanted to do there. That was a loss for Donald Trump, but they did in Texas, but somehow I think they've gotten it back. I forget exactly what happened in Texas, but this is a problem of his own making because he started with this by telling Texas, you got to do this, and then going around Indiana and all those places, and now Gavin Newsom is going to be in a position to be able to add seats. And so, and so this is a problem of his own making. It always does. Venezuela backfired on him, right? Tish, James backfired on him.

[Joanna Coles]

Yep. James Comey backfired.

[Don Lemon]

James Comey backfired on him.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. Putting all his people in at the Justice Department has backfired on him.

[Don Lemon]

All of these Epstein, Epstein, Epstein distractions have backfired. He thought that maybe, maybe I can strike a boat, right, and Venezuela and I can create this whole thing about drugs and then that'll distract from Epstein or, you know, I'll sue all of my political enemies or try to prosecute them rather, and then thatand then it just backfires on him. Or I just say the Democrats, you know, it's a hoax. Because they'll get upset if I say that. And then it just sort of backfires on him.

[Joanna Coles]

But what's so interesting too is that he's surrounded. And we've talked about this on our podcast a lot, and I know you have too. He's surrounded himself with people who are morons, who really can't do the job. These are complicated jobs. You are held to account in these jobs. There is a court system that holds people to account. So no one is telling him, no one appears to be giving him advice saying, you can't do this because it will backfire on me.

[Don Lemon]

Because he doesn't have anybody who is willing to do it right. Except for maybe, maybe Susie Wiles, I don't know, maybe her strategy is to get him out of the White House as much as possible. I don't know. But you've had good bosses before and bad bosses before and I've had good bosses and bad bosses. The good bosses want people around them who are smart and smarter than them.

[Joanna Coles]

Right? You never want to be the smartest.

[Don Lemon]

People in the room. Donald Trump wants to be the smartest person in the room.

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[Joanna Coles]

You're right.

[Don Lemon]

And so that's why he hires and he hires people who are flawed, who will listen to him and who won't.

[Joanna Coles]

Stand up to him and who beyond any other qualification, are loyal and damaged.

[Don Lemon]

Loyal and damaged because they know that I would not be able to have this opportunity under any other president and at any other moment.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

And that's what a lot of folks are taking advantage of. The media companies. The companies, the CEOs who are cozying up to him beyond the media companies. They know this is a moment to rake it in, rake in the cash. And that's what they're doing. And you know, democracy, journalism, the First Amendment, all of that, the emoluments clause, all of that scruples, morals be damned. We're getting rich.

[Joanna Coles]

Don. We need a quick app break.

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[Joanna Coles]

Yeah.

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[Joanna Coles]

And I'm back with Don Lemon and we're discussing, well, we're discussing kind of everything. Do you think that it can ever be repaired?

[Don Lemon]

Yes, because I'm an optimist. It will take a while to be repaired, and I do think that in a weird way, I think it's kind of good that this happened because then, now people see, you see that we need guardrails as it relates to a president.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

That not all presidents are going to be abide by the rules. Not all presidents, quite frankly, are going to be as squeaky clean as Barack Obama. Regardless of what you think about what he accomplished and what he didn't. He was pretty squeaky clean as a president. You know what I mean?

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. There was never a hint of corruption.

[Don Lemon]

He had to. I mean, he's a black man.

[Joanna Coles]

First black president. Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

So, yeah, they're all getting rich. Everybody's turning the other way and just ignoring it. And even the media, they're just ignoring it or going along.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, we're not ignoring it. You're not ignoring it.

[Don Lemon]

No, but I'm talking about corporate mainstream media. We're not. We're more on the independent. And, you know, we'rei shouldn't say the resistance. And I don't mean resisting Republicanism or MAGA ism, but resisting lies.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

Although I would say the Journal has been very good on this stuff. The Wall Street Journal, owned By Rupert Murdoch, New York Times has been very dogged on it. CNN's been doing lots of stuff, let me tell you.

[Don Lemon]

There's a difference. So when I say that I don't think the problem is the journalists are not the problem, it's the gatekeepers is what I'm saying. Right. So the journalists can't always be their full selves because they have jobs. They don't want to lose their jobs. They have families, they need to pay their bills, they need to pay for health care, they need to pay their mortgages, they need to take care of their kids and all of those things. And so if, you know, you work for a company that's trying to do business with the government, then you're going to be careful because if you say something and you get that, you get Donald Trump pissed off, your merger or your acquisition may not go through.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, which is why I think what's happening at the Wall Street Journal is so interesting because the op ed pages seem to be very independent and so does the news. The paper has broken a lot of anti Trump stories and a lot of.

[Don Lemon]

Epstein stories, and they are a shining example of that. But not everyone is doing it. And I think that a lot of this stuff that's happening would not be happening if it were not for the control that Donald Trump has over the media now.

[Joanna Coles]

Right, right.

[Don Lemon]

It would not. They would go in look, they want to he said it at a press conference the other day. It's news that he wants CNN to be sold, that he thinks CNN is being run by, you say, very stupid people or dumb people or something like that.

[Joanna Coles]

I'm not all of the above.

[Don Lemon]

He should never be weighing in on a news organization that way. And so that's the moment we're in. And he has made it clear who he wants to own Warner Brothers Discovery, which owns cnn.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. His friends the Ellisons, who also look like they're gonna end up owning TikTok.

[Don Lemon]

And they own CBS. And he has said when Marjorie Taylor Greene was on 60 Minutes, he put out this scathing post saying they should never have interviewed her. They're worse than the former owners. And why did they go along basically saying, why did I go along with this sale? Because you're no better than the other people.

[Joanna Coles]

So do you think that then ends up undermining the Paramount deal for the Paramount bid, the hostile bid for Warner Brothers?

[Don Lemon]

No.

[Joanna Coles]

Ok. Well, it looks like they haven't been able to keep control of CBS 60 Minute CBS News.

[Don Lemon]

You mean Paramount.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, yeah.

[Don Lemon]

I mean, they're keeping some control over it. I mean, look, you mean you're talking about because they interviewed Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, yeah.

[Don Lemon]

I think, look, I think that they're going to continue to do good work. But it's more than 60 minutes and it's more. And they just got started. Barry Weiss is just starting.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

And so, you know, they are doing, I think she's doing a townshe did a town hall. She did a town hall with Erica Kirk. I mean, how long has Charlie Kirk been dead? And.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, Erica Kirk's on a book tour. Right. So I think CBS is one of the last stages of the book town.

[Don Lemon]

Hall on CBS News this late in the game. Sure. Give her an interview on the morning show like you do everybody else. Give her, you know, a segment on the evening news maybe, but a town hall to talk about what that is pushing ideology in people's faces. And I don't think this late in the game, if there were, if there was a figure on the Democratic side that news organizations would be rushing to do a town hall with some. I don't even know if there's a figure like that on the Democratic side.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

There is no one. There's no organization like that.

[Joanna Coles]

All right, so changing subjects, Donald Trump's health.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

I can't believe that he's unable to find a foundation that actually matches his skin tone on his hand because it's like there's 48 different tones of foundation and concealer at this point. So why is he wearing one? That draws attention to the bruises. But we've talked before about the obvious signs, the cankles, the bruises, the fatigue. He's fallen asleep twice in Cabinet meetings. Does heis he able to stay awake long enough to get to the midterms?

[Don Lemon]

That is a very interesting question. Well, first of all, Caroline Levitt needs a better excuse than he's shaking a lot of hands.

[Joanna Coles]

And also, he's not shaking a lot of hands.

[Don Lemon]

He's not shaking a lot of hands. And. And so. And if you shake my hand.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, so, yeah, this bit is completely free. I am not squeezing.

[Don Lemon]

This is how you'd have to shake hands in order to get that right.

[Joanna Coles]

Especially on both hands.

[Don Lemon]

Right, okay. So there's an issue with that. Is he gonna. This is something I hope that people start writing books and articles about, because Donald Trump can't walk in a straight line. If you see him getting on Marine One the other day, you see that, like, Melania is pushing me in the direction. It's kind of wobbling. You saw him with Putin and walking the straight line. You hear him like, you know, he can't remember things. He confuses people. Now, look, I'm not saying that the man is losing his mind, but has he lost a step? Yes. You know, I'm noti'm not as sharp as I was in my 20s or 30s or 40s. And so this is just something that naturally happens with age. And we should all be so lucky that we get to be 70 or 80 or 90 years old, because it will happen to all of us at some point.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. But that doesn't mean that we want the oldest president running things right now.

[Don Lemon]

In a very case. But I think that I don't know if they're being. I don't believe that they're being as transparent as possible, as candid as possible about what is happening with Donald Trump's health. And he is falling asleep.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, he's definitely falling asleep.

[Don Lemon]

No, they said that. Oh, he was just resting his eyes. And he's bored. It's like, okay, well, why is he.

[Joanna Coles]

Bored in a Cabinet meeting? The world is onyou know, is dealing with so many fires.

[Don Lemon]

Well, he. But he is alert enough in that Cabinet meeting, once he wakes up, to be angry and to insult Somalians and to call Ilhan Omar garbage in Somalia and Somalians garbage. So he's getting angrier. He is lashing out at reporters more often. Has he always said outlandish stuff, but not to the degree that he's saying it now. Quiet, piggy. I. You know.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, you're a stupid person.

[Don Lemon]

Yes, you're a stupid person. Your network sucks, and this is why no one watches you. He did things like that occasionally, but now it's almost every day. And part of it is distraction, I believe, and part of it is just that I think that he doesn't have control of his emotions. And I think he's really concerned about the Epstein files. I think they're driving him a little batty.

[Joanna Coles]

Yep. That's an interesting. That the Epstein files has sort of knocked him. It's like the nail in the coffin. That's just sort of.

[Don Lemon]

It's the thing I think I said. I think I said it on your. And the last podcast we did together. It's the thing that breaks the spell, and I think it has broken the spell for a lot of people, a lot of MAGA supporters.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, well, Don, you have to come back. We have to watch.

[Better Wild Advertiser]

That's it.

[Joanna Coles]

Yes, that's it. I mean, we've covered a lot of ground, my friend. You have to come back, and we have to discuss this more because this is a lot. This is a lot, and it's broken the spell.

[Don Lemon]

I will come back and discuss more now on my taxi ride home. Yes, My taxi expectations are going to be so high.

[Joanna Coles]

They're. Imagine that taxi driver. He's going to be telling everybody he ran into Don Lemon. And also, it's such a moment when you're like, oh, my God. And then you might think, oh, I'm going mad because I'm hearing my own theme music.

[Don Lemon]

That's what I thought. I was like, what is going on? At first I was like, wait. Oh, wait, that's my music.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, that's very cool. Well. And it was you. It was you talking about how much you like zebiotics.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. And you should get some. It works.

[Joanna Coles]

Does it really work?

[Don Lemon]

I don't do. I don't have any. If you're a sponsor on my show, I've tried it and I like it. If not, I don't do it.

[Joanna Coles]

No, I agree. I agree.

[Don Lemon]

Can I say, can I promote something?

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it depends what it is. You can't promote zbiotics.

[Don Lemon]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Joanna Coles]

Though I'm happy to promote Zbiotics if you pay us for an ad read, but I will try them first. I don't drink enough to need zebiotics.

[Don Lemon]

If you have a couple of glasses of wine, and whatever. You should do it.

[Joanna Coles]

Really.

[Don Lemon]

Just try. Yeah. And you'll see the most I do.

[Joanna Coles]

These days is a tequila gimlet. Delicious on a big rock. My favorite drink.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, good. Well, I'm doing something very interesting on New Year's Eve, and I want people to tune in. I'm gonna be. I'm streaming live from New Orleans. I have a New Year's Eve special. New Orleans, New Year's Eve on the Don lemon show, on YouTube, on Twitch, on. You know, you can stream it anywhere.

[Joanna Coles]

Discord, all of it. Roblox.

[Don Lemon]

Can I stream it on the. On the Daily Beast?

[Joanna Coles]

Maybe. Yeah, maybe you could.

[Don Lemon]

New Year's Eve live from New Orleans with Don Lemon. And I'll have some special guests and co hosts that I haven't announced.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, we have co hosted one thing before. We co hosted one of the Oscars for cnn.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, my gosh, yes.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. Long time ago.

[Don Lemon]

That was fun.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, that was fun. I lost a lot of weight to fit into my dress, but you don't.

[Don Lemon]

Need to lose weight.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I thank you for that. I'm. Sadly, I no longer fit into that dress, but that was a fun event.

[Don Lemon]

Who is that? Is that.

[Joanna Coles]

This is Brada. This T shirt, it's the oldest T shirt. It's like 15 years old, and I love it.

[Don Lemon]

So it looks like some supermodel or an in excess something photo from the 80s. It's really cool desert rose, but. Joanna. Merry Christmas.

[Joanna Coles]

Merry Christmas, Don. I will. I will ask you to send me an ornament. Come on, producers. We need some sort of like, we need Christmas things in the background. This is what happens. I go away. I come back. Nothing's changed. Nothing's changed. I was expecting to walk into a winter wonderland. I was in Abu Dhabi for the bridge conference. And it's an interesting mix of Middle east and west because you're in a Muslim country. Everybody's walking around in white robes, and the women are in black. The men are in white robes with those headdresses. The women are in black robes. And then there's Christmas music everywhere and Christmas trees. It's very odd.

[Don Lemon]

It's very odd. I'm about to lose it. Thank you.

[Joanna Coles]

It's all right. We've just exhausted you. You've lost your voice.

[Don Lemon]

No, it's a cold.

[Joanna Coles]

You can't breathe anymore.

[Don Lemon]

Thank you.

[Joanna Coles]

All right, Don. Happy holidays.

[Don Lemon]

Happy holidays to you.

[Joanna Coles]

Happy holidays. What I love about Don is he's just got such great positive energy, and he's always got opinions about absolutely everything. And I'm intrigued that he thinks that Marjorie Taylor Greene might run for President. Watch this space. Anyway, he'll be coming back soon. If you have been thank you for watching the podcast. Thank you for joining us. Thank you guys. Don't forget to subscribe. We made it to half a million subscribers, which is very good and it was very quickly achieved. So thank you very much for your support. Leave us a comment on what you think about Don's views. And don't forget to subscribe to the Daily Beast where we keep you up to date minute by minute with the crazy that's going on right now. Thank you to our beebeast tier of members. And don't forget of course, as our first lady would have us be beast so big. Thank you to Sandra Clark Me thinks Travels with Carl Andrew Beaver Capinator Harry Clark, Dawn McCarthy Daniel dog lover M. Griner, Fulvia Orlando Herbie, Andrew Mellor or Melor as Michael always says Lars Conde Bons Oval Love Francisco, Andrea Hodel, Bocock D.C. sharon Shipley, Connie Rutherford, Karen White and Heidi Reilly. And thank you to our production crew, Devon Rogerino, Anna Von Erssen and Jesse Millwood.

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[Don Lemon]

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[Don Lemon]

Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily Beast [e-mail] podcasts if you enjoyed this.

[Joanna Coles]

Episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to thedailybeast.com membership podcast and sign up today.