The Daily Beast Podcast

Episode Title: The Sinister Truth About My Interview With Epstein
Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: George Rush
Date: March 26, 2026

Overview

This episode delves into journalist George Rush’s remarkable and unsettling interview with Jeffrey Epstein, conducted in the late 2000s while Rush was running New York’s must-read “Rush & Molloy” gossip column. Through rare tape recordings and behind-the-scenes recollections, Rush and host Joanna Coles dissect how Epstein tried to manipulate the media narrative following his arrest and the complex web of influence and enablement involving the powerful, including media mogul Mort Zuckerman and Ghislaine Maxwell. The conversation exposes Epstein’s mindset, the hidden power struggles behind reporting on him, and the chilling indifference he showed toward his victims.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis of the Epstein Interview

• George Rush’s Awareness – Rush was only peripherally aware of Epstein prior to investigative tips from Palm Beach acquaintances post-Epstein’s release from jail. He explains how rumors about Epstein’s continued abuse spurred deeper scrutiny.
  • “I was vaguely aware that he'd had some legal problems where he was alleged to have abused young women...He had just been released from the Palm Beach Sheriff's stockade, as they called the jail down there.” (02:55 – 03:20)
• Legal Context – Details about Epstein’s "sweetheart deal," sleeping in jail at night but free during the day for "work release," illustrate how justice was warped in his favor.
• Ghislaine Maxwell’s Role Revealed – Testimony from Virginia Giuffre (Jane Doe 102) is recounted, highlighting Maxwell’s recruitment of victims and her disturbing hands-on involvement.
  • "Ghislaine Maxwell, his former girlfriend and henchwoman, had made her acquaintance...eventually brought her over to the Epstein mansion, showed her to the massage room...and demonstrated by rubbing her breasts across Epstein that this was what Virginia should do." (04:04 – 06:40)

2. Media Power Dynamics & Pushback

• Epstein’s Influence with Mort Zuckerman – Rush describes learning that Epstein was friends with Zuckerman (the publisher), leading to immense pressure, but also a rare opportunity:
  • “Mort has heard from Epstein...I was waiting for him to just say it's dead...But kind of to my excitement, Martin said that Epstein wants to talk to you.” (09:43 – 11:06)
• Epstein’s Secret Ambitions – Uncovered DOJ emails show Epstein’s intent to become “architect” of Zuckerman’s $ billions via “estate planning” for exorbitant fees.
  • "Epstein was already pursuing his years long quest to take control and become the architect, as he put it, of Mort Zuckerman's billions." (08:18 – 09:06)

3. Playing the Tape – Epstein’s Attempts at Manipulation

Manipulating the Narrative

• Epstein’s Tactics – The first tape clip captures Epstein flattering Rush, “I understand the charge of bringing in attacking the rich guy, and I respect it...Your job is trying to sell papers,” only to deflect blame onto accusers’ lawyers.
  • (12:19 – 12:55)
  • Joanna Coles: “People always say that when you've got them banged to rights.” (12:55)
• Vilifying Brad Edwards – Epstein suggests the real story is the supposed malfeasance of Brad Edwards, Giuffre’s lawyer, rather than his own abuse.
  • "He starts to say that a much better story would involve the truly evil person of a lawyer who is using you...by asking you to carry water for his outrageous claim against me.” (13:30)

The Intersection of Scandals

• Ponzi Scheme Sideshow – Epstein’s claim that Edwards’ former partner ran a Ponzi scheme turns out to be true, but as Coles points out, “He gets 50 years...which is basically 35 times longer than the sentence Jeffrey Epstein gets.” (15:35 – 16:25)

Evasion & Gaslighting

• On the Charges – When confronted, Epstein tries to split hairs:
  • "The state charge is simply a procurement charge. There's nothing to do with sex. It's procurement for prostitution." (18:37)
• Ultimate Non-Confession – Epstein steadfastly refuses any real self-examination:
  • “He wouldn't go into self reflection in any way. His main argument was he was the victim of these girls...that they had deceived him...” (19:15)
  • "He blames the victims and says that they were all prostitutes anyway...his sentence was, in his words, much harsher than he would have gotten in New York...it would have been the equivalent of jaywalking." (21:08)

4. The Ghislaine Maxwell Connection

• Protecting Ghislaine – Epstein demanded that references to Maxwell be omitted, leveraging his connection to Zuckerman for this.
  • “Nowhere was Ghislaine mentioned. That was the deal... Epstein's request to leave her out. And in return, we could get at other things.” (24:47)
• Preserving High Society Access – Coles and Rush analyze how denying Maxwell’s involvement preserved Epstein’s ties to elite social circles.
  • "Guylaine, who was sort of his ticket to the high society, European, British milieu, he didn't. If she was also shamed, that would be bad for the whole operation." (23:04–24:39)

5. Aftermath and Impact

• Story Published, Minimal Fallout – Despite leaks, story ran but with less immediate impact than hoped. Only informed insiders realized its significance.
  • “There wasn't the sort of eruption that we have today...But the people who were aware of the difficulty of getting it in the paper at all were happy." (26:24–26:50)
• Epstein’s Continued Denial – On tape, Epstein sneers:
  • “It wasn't very smart for me to go so close to the line...some of these claims are as legitimate as my zero winning ticket at the Oklahoma Lottery.” (27:07–27:47)

6. Dark Details: The Zorro Ranch and Medical Exploitation

• Strange Prize & Creepy Facilities – The Oklahoma Lottery story leads to revelations about Epstein’s Zorro Ranch, including a secret medical examination room:
  • "She opened this one door and discovered that it was some sort of medical examination room that featured gynecologist stirrups." (31:06)

7. Chilling Attitude Towards Victims

• Dehumanization – Rush summarizes Epstein’s worldview:
  • “They were really disposable service providers, sort of like landscapers...just how little regard he had for them.” (32:25)

8. Epstein's Contrived Remorse & Philanthropy Smokescreen

• Dodging Accountability – When asked if he has regrets:
  • Epstein: "I mean, I look back with, you know, embarrassment. What had happened and it was. There's no good, no good reason. I'm just looking, you know, get my life back going to my philanthropy." (33:34)
• Philanthropy as Image Laundering – Rush and Coles note how Epstein used donations, science, and prestigious associates to whitewash his reputation.
  • "He just feels like he's the world's savior...he saw science and philanthropy as a way to win absolution and overcome the stain of his behavior.” (34:38)

9. Networking & Social Engineering

• Influence-Building Techniques – Epstein’s endless offers of help (school admissions, financial advice) kept rich and powerful allies obligated and compliant.
  • "These emails are full of the offers and requests for help in gaining admission to private schools, colleges...And if he could bring it off, then he really had his hooks in them." (43:42)

10. Personal Charms and Social Engineering

• Coles probes Epstein’s reputation for “focus” and charm:
  • “You could tell immediately you were in the hands of a master of schmooze and persuasion, and that he had an assortment of tools to try and get his way." (45:48)

11. Legal and Moral Complexity

• The Legal Firewall – Rush describes the battle to keep the Epstein tape out of court. “This damn recording became a huge headache...I ended up having to go to court...the judge said...bring your pajamas [or go to jail].” (48:44–50:35)

12. Ultimate Fate and Legacy

• On Epstein’s Death – Rush is divided, citing both plausible suicide and possible foul play:
  • “I do think he was such a narcissist, Epstein, that the thought of remaining in jail and enduring this trial was just beyond what he could endure. And so quite possibly he just thought this was the classy way out.” (52:03–53:17)
• Mort Zuckerman’s Enigma – Coles and Rush puzzle over Zuckerman’s choice to remain friends with Epstein despite everything exposed.
  • “Such are the mysteries of powerful men.” (54:58)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Epstein’s View of Victims:

"They were really disposable service providers, sort of like landscapers...just how little regard he had for them."
— George Rush, (32:25)

On Media Influence:

"Every journalist's heart sinks because you never want to get the owner involved. Right. That's always going to be a nightmare."
— Joanna Coles, (07:28)

On Legal Irony:

“He gets 50 years...which is basically 35 times longer than the sentence Jeffrey Epstein gets.”
— Joanna Coles, (15:35)

On Self-Pity and Blame:

“I can't have that conversation. I, I pled guilty to solicit what I pled guilty to.”
— Jeffrey Epstein, (18:37)

On Philanthropy as Smokescreen:

"He just feels like he's the world's savior...he saw science and philanthropy as a way to win absolution and overcome the stain of his behavior."
— George Rush, (34:38)

On Reporting Under Pressure:

“Not an enviable place to be squashed between Jeffrey Epstein and the owner of your newspaper, Mort Zuckerman.”
— Joanna Coles, (54:58)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Epstein’s Attitude Toward Victims: 02:55, 32:25
• The Sweetheart Deal and Aftermath: 03:34–04:08
• Ghislaine Maxwell & Virginia Giuffre: 04:10–06:40
• Publisher Pressure & Epstein’s “Estate Planning”: 08:00–11:06
• Playing the Tape (Epstein Manipulation): 12:19–13:30, 16:25–17:12
• Ponzi Scheme Sideshow: 15:35–16:25
• Epstein’s Defense & Blaming Victims: 18:03–21:15, 27:07–27:47
• Protecting Ghislaine Maxwell: 23:04–24:47
• Publishing the Story: 24:47–26:50
• Zorro Ranch & “Medical Room”: 30:07–31:08
• Epstein’s “Remorse” & Philanthropy: 33:34–34:38
• Epstein’s Network Tactics: 43:42
• Rush’s Legal Battle Over the Tape: 48:44–50:35
• Debating Epstein’s Death: 52:03–53:17

Conclusion: The Podcast’s Takeaway

This episode pulls back the curtain on both the methods of Jeffrey Epstein’s manipulation of the media and the elite, and the struggles journalists face when reporting on the powerful and well connected. With exclusive audio and candid behind-the-scenes reflection, Joanna Coles and George Rush paint a chilling portrait of a manipulator whose influence was abetted as much by social and institutional rot as by his own cunning. The episode is an eye-opening look at complicity, power, and the challenges of exposing inconvenient truths.