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- [00:00]
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- [02:02]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
We could look at the photos that have just been released by the oversight committee which give us more insight into Epstein's lair. Would you like to do that?
- [02:14]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Why not?
- [02:21]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Michael.
- [02:23]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Joanna, Nice to see you back in the United States.
- [02:28]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
I'm relieved to be back. I love traveling, but I also love coming home. And I thought we were going to kick off this morning talking about Indiana and Mike Pence's revenge, but then dropped a trove of photos from the oversight Committee on Epstein, when you said this.
- [02:45]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I just had to pause a moment to think, what was Mike Pence doing in this middle of this? And then I remembered that he was once the governor of Indiana. But that would not have been. That would not have come immediately to mind.
- [03:00]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Who even remembers Mike Pence at this point? Except it turns out, I think the people in Indiana who clearly are appalled by Trump have said they don't like his tone. They're not going to be bullied. They don't care about being prime minister.
- [03:12]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
If Mike Pence was actually expressing himself in Indiana on this point, I want.
- [03:20]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
To be clear on this, I have absolutely no idea.
- [03:22]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
But of course he was. Of course. Right, let's not even, let's not even second guess ourselves there. Of course he was. Of course he hates, as is the experience with virtually everyone who comes into direct contact with him, he hates Donald Trump and would like nothing better than his revenge on Donald Trump.
- [03:46]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, and also, Donald Trump went after Mike Pence, let us not forget, in a horrifying way, when Mike Pence made the right decision to ratify the election and not give it to Donald Trump.
- [03:58]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
But I don't think that we should make too much of a distinction here. Mike Pence hates Donald Trump because Donald Trump did hateful things to him. But everybody, literally, and we could push this to the 100% threshold, everybody who has been in business, let us say, with Donald Trump, political, business or otherwise, comes to detest him.
- [04:25]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Yeah, I understand that, but I feel like Pence in particular was humiliated. I mean, remember the shouts, the chants of hang Mike Pence. Remember Mother Pence refusing to shake Trump's hand.
- [04:39]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
And it's a larger theme here, a whole world of people out there who want revenge on Donald Trump. And I think, I think that will, that will. That's a variable that we should deal with at some point, because it is. It is. I've always felt it will come back and finally, in the end, contribute to his downfall.
- [05:06]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
The way you said downfall. No, of course. And you think about other politicians not as, not as talented as Donald Trump, who've been bought down by the fact that they just didn't have enough allies, that you need supporters at a certain point. And Trump supporters are beginning to fall away. And you saw it amazingly in Indiana yesterday with, you know, older state representatives coming forward and saying, we don't like his tone. We're not going to be bullied, try and primary us. It was sort of reassuring and unexpected. And yet another blow to Trump right now.
- [05:40]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
What other people are seeing is that this is starting to backf. And there's a lot of people in Texas worried that, I mean, Texas passed that and they have completed their gerrymandering, but now having second thoughts about it.
- [05:59]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Right. And they turned it down in Kansas, they turned it down in Kentucky, I think. So this is yeah. Not everybody wants to be in hock to Donald Trump.
- [06:08]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
And it also reflects now this whole shifting sense of what's going to happen in the, in the midterms. You know, reapportionment is always based on prior assumptions. And the prior assumption, certainly in Texas and in other places is that the, the Latino vote has become a Trump vote. And now that looks very much up for up, up for grabs. So if that's not true, then they have created districts that actually will go against them.
- [06:38]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Yeah. And also the ICE raids, the masked men, the grabbing people in the street, the distribution of those horrifying videos on social media, I think will backfire a catastrophe.
- [06:53]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
And, you know, they justyou know, Kristi Noem, of course, was just dragged in front of Congress the other day and, you know, and her performance was, you know, was in your face, you know, fuck you. And, you know, which I can't, can't help, can't help things. They just, it's just this process of again and again drawing a line. This is, we're embracing what we are doing here with the rest of the, with a good part of the country being very, you know, no matter what they think about, about immigration, being naturally ambivalent about what they see in these videos.
- [07:38]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Yeah. And also the horrifying nature of the black masks, which was perhaps intended and works in terms of making people intimidating, but that's actually not what people want. They just wanted the border to be closed, and they've closed the border, which Biden should have done and didn't do, and as a result, well, partly lost the election over it. But the ICE raids are truly frightening and horrifying. And they just spread on social media, which I think is what the Trump crew underestimated. I think they thought perhaps those would be rallying cries, those little videos, and instead they're portraits of humanity, which are really, you know, only inspire despair.
- [08:24]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
No. But curiously, no effort to, to fix that problem. You know, they go, I mean, these get more and more of these videos every day. They become the ice people become more and more aggressive. The Trump, the Trump people become more and more defensive, as though they and their effort here to respond to this is to make it about ice. Poor ice. These people are being. Are being victimized. That's a. That's a big leap, to say the least.
- [09:00]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Yeah, it's a big leap. And also we're discovering that they've been in such a panic to hire people for ICE that they're not usual. They're not using the usual vetting processes, and God knows who they're sweeping up in their hiring spree. And so you've got all sorts of people who actually enjoy wearing a mask and enjoy, you know, throwing people in the back of a car or throwing them down and zip tying them. And you can see the relish, which is also, I think, distressing. But we are.
- [09:28]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
You make it sound kind of attractive, actually.
- [09:30]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Oh, no, that's not what my goal is at all. But as we. As I was expecting us to spend a lot of time discussing Indiana words that would not have. No one would have expected to come from my mouth. And I have spent a lot of time in Indiana.
- [09:44]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
You've been in Indiana?
- [09:45]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
I've actually been in Indiana.
- [09:47]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Do tell.
- [09:48]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, I spent one of the most fun weeks of my life, actually, at Purdue University. Go, Boilermakers.
- [09:55]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
One of the most fun weeks of your life?
- [09:59]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
So much fun. I was staying with a friend at Purdue. This was years and years ago, and they put me up to be a little sister of Sigma Alpha Epsilon, which to a British person was just, you know, I went to a small liberal arts university in the uk. We never heard of fraternities. I didn't even know what they were.
- [10:18]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
So what is. I want the. You were an exchange student?
- [10:23]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
No, no, no. I was just staying there for a week with a friend of mine who I. An American friend of mine. And she said, you must. You've got. We have this thing called Rush. And basically what it entailed was a stream of very attractive young men arriving at her apartment with a rose for me and asking if I would be a little sister to their fraternity. I had never come across anything like this. You know, I was coming from a university where everybody dressed in black. This is depressed. This was at Purdue, which turns out to be a gorgeous campus. And it was so much fun. And a huge Greek system was going back 40 years. I can't believe I just said 40 years.
- [11:05]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
My career. We could really just. My career began at Indiana University.
- [11:11]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
No, I don't believe it. I do not believe that.
- [11:15]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yes, because the. The group of people, including someone who had been a neighbor of mine growing up, who kidnapped Patty Hearst, were students at Indiana University. And that became the first major. Actually, the first piece that I ever wrote. I was 19 years old. I wrote it for the New York Times Magazine about the woman, this neighbor of mine, who kidnapped Patty Hearst and then who had gone to Indiana University.
- [11:59]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
And this is part of the luck of journalism that you happen to live next door to a kidnapper. I mean, that is not something that you learn at Columbia Journalism School. That's about opportunity and luck.
- [12:10]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
There was more luck involved here because my mother had been a newspaper reporter. So that I didn't know.
- [12:17]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
I did not know I was at.
- [12:18]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
That point, just actually a copy boy on the New York Times, just trying to survive the hot dog runs. And my mother called me up and said, hey, did you see this particular woman whose name was. This girl from my past, whose name was Angela DeAngelis became Angela Atwood, that. She said, Angela DeAngelis is the girl who kidnapped Patty Hearst. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah. My mother said, no, no, you're missing the point here. This is your story. And it was. Changed my life.
- [12:57]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Wow, that is. I've never heard that story before. Go.
- [13:00]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I've never heard the story at you. At Purdue University. In a sorority. At Purdue.
- [13:06]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Yeah. No, I wasn't in a sorority. I was a little sister, which was. They. It was affiliated somehow. Anyway, it looked like it was going to be a life of parties, but sadly, I had to go back to the uk, where it was not a life of parties. But I also went to. When I was at the Guardian, I went to Indiana for a story, and I drove the wrong way up the I95. I do remember that because this was pre sat nav, when you actually had to use maps. And I hired a car. One of the stressors of being a bureau chief for a foreign newspaper was you were constantly traveling across America, but you only had a map to do it with. So you would fly in somewhere, hire a car, look at the map, get confused. And I remember stopping, thinking I should be somewhere. I should be near my destination. I stopped at a gas station, went in with the map, and the guy said, yeah, yeah, you've gone. You've gone the wrong way on the.
- [13:58]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Because you drive on the other side of the road.
- [14:00]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
So, you know, maybe that's what it was. Anyway, I was 200 miles out from where I was supposed to be, and I can't actually remember the story, but I remember the stress of. Of going the wrong way and not realizing, because it was all interesting. Anyway, anyway, so, Michael, we were going to talk about our lives colliding in Indiana and the amazing decision they made not to for redistricting. But we've been pushed off schedule by this sudden dump of photos from the Democrats, from the Oversight Committee, which give us more insight into Jeffrey Epstein's life and his lair.
- [14:38]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Or not more insight. I mean, we really don't know what they are. And you know what this is. They're kind of photos without context.
- [14:51]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Photos without. Okay, so can you give us some context?
- [14:54]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Well, maybe I can give a little. I mean, like the first one is of Donald Trump, I would say, circa the 90s, at some point, surrounded by women with their faces blacked out, which is interesting. So the Democrats are blacking out this. Their faces. And the implication here is that they are blacking out these faces because these might have been victims, I suppose, of Donald Trump. I mean, it's a weird signal that is being. That's being sent.
- [15:26]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Interesting because also it's impossible to know because they've blacked their photos out. But they don't look that young.
- [15:34]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
We can't know that. But in any other pictures that we have ever seen of Donald Trump in the 90s, certainly they don't black out the faces. Why are the faces blacked out here? Some? Because again. And they have said we're going to try to protect people who were victims. But again, the implication being these are.
- [15:56]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
These are Donald Trump's victims.
- [15:58]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Then of course, these are photos being released by the Democrats. Which is this other aspect of everything that is being released from the files, from the Epstein, the theoretical Epstein files, or the theoretical material related to Jeffrey Epstein is that it is now being weaponized by each side.
- [16:19]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Right.
- [16:19]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
So which is not going to be helpful in the long process of figuring out what this means and what happened and, and, and who to blame.
- [16:32]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, and they've also. It looks like it was a Hawaiian themed evening because they all seem to be wearing luas. I think that's what they are.
- [16:42]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
You know. You know, Trump, as I've said before, at Mar a Lago, every day is a theme day at Mar a Lago.
- [16:51]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
So who knows if this was at Mar a Lago or not. But the women are blacked out, which is sending. You're quite right.
- [16:56]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I was at Mar a Lago once and it was Italian night and there were big posters with meatballs. That was their idea of the Italians. Meatballs.
- [17:06]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
There were pictures of meatballs.
- [17:08]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yes.
- [17:09]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
That is hilarious. I've got to get myself to Mar a Lago. I'm desperate to go. I've driven around the outside, as I've said before, but I'm dying to go I'm dying to go. All right, so now let's go through this almost photo gallery. We kick off with a very thin looking and much shorter haired Steve Bannon sitting opposite Jeffrey Epstein at his enormous desk.
- [17:35]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yeah, I can give you the background on this. So this would have been been in probably 2018, Bannon meets. Meets Epstein, because you introduced them, right? Yes, I can say I know this very well because I was the nexus for this. And that was in December 2017. So this would probably be 2018. Possibly, possibly early 19. But this is in Epstein's study. The study is on the second floor of that mammoth townhouse, you know, what people say might be the largest private residence in Manhattan. Actually, Epstein said this. I'm not sure it's exactly true, but it is certainly up there. And the study takes. Runs, you know, I mean, across the width of the house. So somewhere near, you know, I mean, approaching a quarter of a New York City block, a very baronial room, you know, a kind of a, you know, a movie set. So this would be, if you were creating a Jeffrey Epstein kind of diabolical character in the movies. This is the, this is the room that the set designer would. Would create for that character.
- [19:11]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Yeah.
- [19:12]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
And. And then we have Bannon sitting in front of. In front of the desk, always with his barber. I wonder if I. If I am in this picture to the. And cut off. I mean, that is possible, but I don't quite remember.
- [19:29]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Interesting. Well, I always remember what you say that Steve Bannon said to Jeffrey Epstein when they met, when you introduced them, which was. You were the only man I was afraid of during the campaign.
- [19:40]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Exactly. And the background, the further background on that is that Bannon was aware that 60 Minutes was preparing a piece on the relationship of Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump during the 2016 campaign. And that was never aired for reasons I don't know. But Bannon was. Bannon knew of this effort and was scared of it.
- [20:16]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Whoa, whoa. 60 Minutes was preparing a documentary on Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein and it never ran.
- [20:23]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Exactly.
- [20:24]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
We need to find that. If there's anybody out there that used to work on 60 Minutes.
- [20:29]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Well, there was, you know, and actually the producer of that, I believe was a man by the name of Ira Rosen, who was a. Who. Who Bannon knew Well.
- [20:39]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, I think we've since had a couple of heads of 60 Minutes who've been fired or resigned. So perhaps we could see the contents of. Of that. I wonder why. That's the first time I heard that story. So. Very strange photo on his Desk of what looks like a roll of carpet on a. Can you open that photo? It looks like a pair of legs coming out of a roll of carpet on a sofa. Kind of weird.
- [21:11]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I can't quite see that.
- [21:13]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Oh, it's a girl lying on a sofa because there's a face redacted, and she's got, like, a kind of weird thing over. It looks like she could be naked, and she's got something thrown over her. Anyway, it's a little strange, given what we know now. Oh, no, you might not be there, because there's only one cup on the desk for Steve Bannon. Now I'm sounding like an FBI agent trying to analyze the photo. All right, let's go on to the.
- [21:40]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Next very big desk. No, there's a huge.
- [21:43]
Joe from Vanta
Wait a minute.
- [21:43]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Are there.
- [21:44]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Fantastically grandiose, but he's only got one screen, which I'm surprised by.
- [21:49]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Great. Moving along.
- [21:50]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Okay, so let's move swiftly onto the next one, which is Woody Allen and Jeffrey Epstein, and that appears to be.
- [21:58]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I don't know exactly what the context of that would be, but it appears to be on the set of one of Woody's movies.
- [22:08]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Mm. All right, moving swiftly. Trump, condom. 450. I'm huge. And then a strange picture of Donald Trump's face on it. This is obviously some sort of joke. 450. Is that a lot for a condom? I don't know. I don't buy condoms, so I don't know if that's a lot for.
- [22:28]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I want you to continue on with this little riff here.
- [22:31]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
See where you go, well, I don't know how much a condom cost, and I didn't know you bought them individually. I thought you bought them in packs.
- [22:39]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Well, there's probably a different price for novelty condoms.
- [22:43]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Oh, novelty condoms. Okay, let's move swiftly on to. This is a good photo because it encapsulates what you're always talking about, which is the allure of the private plane. Here we have Larry Summers, Larry Summers's wife. Woody Allen, and I'm not.
- [23:00]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I'm not sure that that's. That. That's.
- [23:02]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Oh, do you think it's Alan Derrick?
- [23:05]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
It. It could. It could just be a generic Jew.
- [23:10]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
I can't believe you said that. I mean, it. I thought it was Woody Allen. To me, it looks like Woody Allen, but it could be Alan Dershowitz.
- [23:17]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I know that. That. That Woody was never. Well, he never goes anywhere without Suni, and he was. And he's never.
- [23:25]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, Sunni could be in the other seat opposite him. You can't see who's in that seat, possibly.
- [23:31]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
And then I believe that is Larry.
- [23:33]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Summers wife, Melissa knew the poet who. Jeffrey Epstein was financing one of her poetry projects.
- [23:41]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yeah, a poetry magazine, I believe. Yes.
- [23:44]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Okay. And Harvard is doing yet another investigation into the relationships with Epstein. I was talking to someone from Harvard over the weekend who was explaining that they were all very excited to see what comes out of that. All right, now we have Jeffrey Epstein and Bannon, like teenage girls taking selfies of themselves in the mirror. Okay, where is that?
- [24:12]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
You know, and again, I don't. I don't exactly know. I don't recognize that. But, you know, I mean, I've spoken before about. About how close they became quickly. Very close. Their bond was Donald Trump. That they both had such deep and, to say the very least, mixed feelings about Donald Trump that they immediately became friends because they just had an inexhaustible conversation on this subject. Trump's stupidity, Trump's perfidy, Trump's improbability. And they went on and on and on at endless length about this.
- [25:06]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Okay, it looks like it could be a book party, because there's a pile of books there. Oh, my God. Is that Fire and Fury? Michael, is that Fire and Fury?
- [25:16]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Oh, my God. It certainly is.
- [25:18]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
This is at some kind of a book party or.
- [25:22]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
No, it wouldn't be. I mean, Epstein certainly never went to a book party, and Bannon certainly never went to a Fire and Fury book party. But I do remember now that as a novelty item, Bannon. Epstein got Bannon to sign a whole bunch of Fire and Furies.
- [25:49]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Okay, so maybe they would probably.
- [25:52]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Would be very valuable now. I don't have one.
- [25:55]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, I'm sure we can get you one.
- [25:56]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
No, no, I mean, I have Fire and Fury. It's getting one with Abandoned.
- [25:59]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
No, no, I understand. I bet. I bet we could find one on ebay. Steve Bannon, if you're listening, would you sign one for us?
- [26:07]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Sold these. Anime.
- [26:09]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
No, I think someone else. Well, maybe Epstein. I think someone else maybe got one.
- [26:12]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Maybe the FBI now has it.
- [26:16]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, maybe they were given away with a huge condom as a sort of party face. Yes, I think they could have done a little gift bag of trumpabilia. All right. Oh, now, this is an interesting picture. This is Richard Branson, who's really escaped from the Epsteinia of it all, where other men have been felled. But here he is.
- [26:38]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
And that's another point here. You know that these. These photographs will now cause everyone enormous, enormous problems. But we don't know the people who are not in these photographs. So in other words, it's entirely random. Who surfaces, who doesn't. Just because you don't surface doesn't mean you weren't there.
- [27:07]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Right, but we've got new people who were there. And I think the guy next to Richard Branson, with his hand on Branson's right shoulder, that is.
- [27:16]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yeah, that's Dean Kamens, who's a tech guy famous for. What are those things called?
- [27:25]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
The Segway. The Segway, yes.
- [27:27]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yes, exactly.
- [27:29]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
And not the guy who owned the Segway and went off the edge of a cliff in it and died.
- [27:36]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I think Dean Kamen is still with us, although I could be wrong about that. But I remember when the Segway was introduced, it was introduced at a ted conference circa 2000, 2001, where everybody got a chance to drive one of these actually fairly scary machines. I mean, but that's from me. Anything to drive seems scary.
- [28:05]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Yeah, we don't want you on one of those. Although now they seem to be relegated to tourists.
- [28:10]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yeah, no, no. It was at that moment in 2000 or 2001, it was going to revolutionize the world instead of just theme parks.
- [28:20]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Right. There was a lot of excitement, and I believe it was on, like Donald Trump, the COVID of Time, as the vehicle that was going to transform the way we move. All right, but they look very happy here. We don't know. We're assuming this is Jeffrey Epstein's island. It certainly looks tropical. Could be Florida, I suppose, or it could be Necker, Richard Branson's island.
- [28:41]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
That we don't know. We don't know. Tropical is all that we can say.
- [28:46]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Then there's another photo here with a woman whose face is redacted. Do we have any sense of who this is? Is Jeffrey Epstein, Woody Allen? And then is this Kathy Rummler, the general counsel of Goldman Sachs, who's got caught up in this?
- [29:04]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
So if I had to guess, I think that this might be Epstein's girlfriend at the time. It was a woman he sent through dental school.
- [29:18]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Okay, so it's a dentist, a mystery dentist. Yeah.
- [29:22]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
And that looks like Woody Allen, but, you know, it also strangely looks like Bill Gates.
- [29:28]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
It's definitely Woody Allen, but you're right, it does look like Bill Gates, who I think crops up in a later photo. And long, very long stemware on those glasses. Quite. Those are. First of all, you can't put those in the dishwasher. And secondly, they look inordinately delicate to drink water from.
- [29:50]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
So this. This would be the Dining room. The famous dining room table which everyone sat around. So there are going to be other people here at this table? Well, I'm first thinking if, if, that's, if, if Woody Allen is here, SUNY would be there also. But, but that table was, was typically there would always be, you know, from half a dozen to a dozen people around the table.
- [30:20]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Okay, moving on. Now, this is Eva Dubin, I think, former Ms. Sweden. Correct.
- [30:29]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
You know, I can't. I mean, I've. I've met her on a number of occasions, but I can't. I can't say for sure who this is.
- [30:36]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Okay.
- [30:37]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
But yes, it could be, certainly is Donald Trump.
- [30:42]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, Donald Trump, whose hair at that stage is sort of auburn, and Jeffrey Epstein both looking lasciviously at whoever this blonde is. Okay, moving on. All right, and then pictures here of more women's faces redacted. Again, the implication that they are victims. And then I think there is Bill Gates on the left. Does that look like Bill Gates to you?
- [31:12]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yeah, I can't see. I can't make that out.
- [31:15]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
It looks like Bill Gates on the plane. Not someone who would have needed a ride on a plane with Jeffrey Epstein, because I'm sure he's got his own planes.
- [31:24]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
You know, that's true, but people never pass up a ride on someone's plane, even people who have planes, because then they are aware that it is someone else paying for the fuel.
- [31:37]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Okay, moving on to the next. I love this picture. Prince Andrew and Bill Gates and Prince Andrew. Just what is he thinking there? He's thinking, how can I get some money out of this man? How can I come up with a sponsorship for Bill Gates? Something to do with Pitchett Palace.
- [31:54]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yeah. And I can't imagine where this is. There was, of course, this. The Epstein party, which I think it was in 2011, and it was a party ostensibly for Prince Andrew, though as much a kind of get out of prison party for Jeffrey Epstein, but in which everybody, literally everybody in New York attended, from Barbara Walters to George Stephanopoulos to Charlie Rose to, you know, a full. A full set of names of people. So again, that, you know, that moment in time in which, I mean, now everyone, you know, now the context is how could you. But at that moment in time, it was, how could you not, apparently.
- [32:47]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Right. And it's got a Four Seasons vibe about it. I don't know if that is the Four Seasons, but it's got a kind of modernist that. That would. Is that a curtain in the background or.
- [32:59]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yeah, I don't know.
- [33:00]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
I'M not sure, but it's got a sort of power.
- [33:03]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I don't know. I mean, it was so, you know, I mean, Epstein, like so many wealthy men, is so often about controlling his environment. So he never was any. He didn't go out in public and you can say he didn't go out in public because he was, he was a pariah. But he was also didn't go out because it was all about control. People came to him. He built these environments from his airplane to his multiple homes because it was a control thing.
- [33:41]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Right. And both of these gentlemen look like they need to lose a few pounds. And Bill Gates has definitely lost a lot of weight since this photo. And I don't know about Andrew. Andrew's jacket is straining there. Second button can't get done and Bill hasn't even tried to do up his buttons.
- [33:58]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Well, this is pre weight loss drugs.
- [34:00]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Yeah, pre, pre GLP ones.
- [34:02]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
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- [34:05]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
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- [35:05]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
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- [36:05]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
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- [37:06]
Ryan Reynolds
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- [37:41]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
And Michael Wolfe and I are back. Where else? Inside Donald Trump's head. Okay, and then we have Bill Gates hugging the pilot. Is this the pilot that gave evidence against Epstein?
- [37:53]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yeah, I have no idea.
- [37:56]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
I think this might be the plane that Donald Trump borrowed inadvertently during the campaign.
- [38:03]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
You know, it probably would have been, yes, actually. And in that story, so during the campaign they were in Montana, I believe, and the Trump plane was broken. I mean one of the themes of the 2024 campaign is that the Trump is that his Trump's plane was always breaking and it put him into a greater fury than anything else. You know, forget sinking poles at the time or forget anything political. It was plane and the fact that it was that it might be out of order. And at one point they were in Montana. They had to go to Colorado, I think possibly Aspen, but they had to borrow. They had to lease a plane. And then that plane turned out to be Jeffrey Epstein's plane, which they learned about because, because somebody media people were following the tracking on this. And so in the middle of the flight Somebody put it together that this was Jeffrey Epstein's plane, and it was a very, very bad flight, very bumpy, very.
- [39:22]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Turbulent.
- [39:25]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
That sense of the last moment and with Trump screaming, I'm going to die on Jeffrey Epstein's plane.
- [39:35]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
The irony that they rent a plane and it turns out to have belonged to Jeffrey Epstein. All right, Moving swiftly on story is.
- [39:42]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
In my book, all or nothing. Just if you want more tales of the campaign, I can give you limitless ones.
- [39:50]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, we always want more tales from the campaign. But I love this next picture because there is something particularly strange about people who didn't go to college wearing a Harvard sweatshirt. And obviously, he gave a lot of money to Harvard and helped people's kids get into Harvard that we know, and here he is.
- [40:11]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I mean, the only thing, you know that I would say is that he was so brazen about it, so unashamed of it, that that sense of being a wannabe kind of changed the context. It was as though it was though he owned Harvard.
- [40:37]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
So funny. Again, that thing of being manipulative in plain sight. So I didn't go to college. I'm wearing a Harvard shirt. And.
- [40:46]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yeah. And it was like, I can do this because I bought it. I bought not just the sweatshirt, but the entire university, which is, I guess, what Harvard is now panicked about.
- [40:58]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Yeah. And also, Alan Dershowitz here looks subservient in the photo. He looks very Uriah, heepish, sort of holding his hands like that.
- [41:10]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yeah. And let me just. That. That other, you know, point that I like to emphasize in the Dershowitz context, because there's a lot of. A lot of sense in the commentary that, you know, Dershowitz is. Is the ultimate manipulator that, you know, that Epstein's grand manipulation involved hiring Alan Dershowitz, the most famous lawyer in the land. But Epstein would say at one point, Epstein said to me, he said, I will give you the best legal advice. Hire Alan Dershowitz and do just the opposite.
- [41:56]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, and Alan Dershowitz, who said he did get a massage, but he kept his underpants on. Here we are again. We've got Bannon, a heavier Bannon at this point, definitely heavier with Woody Allen. Is this Jeffrey Epstein's home? I'm guessing it is.
- [42:13]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
And I kind of remember when this picture was. Or the context that Bannon wanted a picture of. That was a Bannon achievement, to have himself in a picture with Woody Allen. I'm sure at this moment, he's not thinking it was such an achievement.
- [42:33]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, and in the background, we've got a little. It frankly looks like a child's easel. Although it could be a whiteboard. You know one of those whiteboards that mathematicians used to equate.
- [42:47]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yeah, no, no, there were whiteboards.
- [42:48]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Equations.
- [42:50]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Epstein had whiteboards all over the place. He was always getting up. I mean, there was something very didactic about Epstein. Always as though. And remember, he was a spent period as a teacher. He was always explaining, always diagramming, illustrating.
- [43:10]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
It's got a slight goodwill hunting vibe, where you expect him to get up and start doing weird equations.
- [43:16]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yeah, no, no. And it was. And he. And he was actually, let me say, a very good explainer. You would. I mean, he would start talking about. About. Various numerical things, especially in the context of a business and what a business might be facing or the economic trends, and you would get lost. And then he would diagram it and you would say, oh, yeah, thanks. Get it.
- [43:48]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
A bit like having someone explain crypto to you, and you're like, oh, I get it. And then five minutes later, you're like, I'm not sure this makes sense. All right, then we have Donald Trump on a plane with someone whose face is redacted.
- [44:06]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yeah. Again. And that is the implication here, that this is Donald Trump's prey. I don't know.
- [44:15]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Right. And he's got his tie loosened in a slightly loose way.
- [44:20]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yes. Unusual.
- [44:22]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Yeah. Normally we see him with that big knot at his neck, and here it looks like he's sort of deliberately undone it for a bit of action.
- [44:30]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Epstein used to say that Donald Trump always wanted to ride on Epstein's plane because of. Because of saving the cost on his own plane.
- [44:43]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. Of course. All right, and then final. Final picture signed by none other than Bill Clinton with Ghislaine Maxwell between Bill Clinton and Jeffrey Epstein. And then a woman on Bill Clinton's. Right. Who. We haven't been able to figure out who it is.
- [45:01]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Now, it's curious that that woman's face is not blacked out. And then the other curious thing is that it looks remarkably like a young Hillary.
- [45:12]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
It really looks like a young Hillary, doesn't it? And then who's the man next to her? She may not be redacted because she's married to the man next to her. Well, she might not be redacted because she's very clearly a woman and not a girl.
- [45:28]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
You know, that's a. You know, I wouldn't want to count on that estimation by the. By the young men who staff the Democratic committees.
- [45:40]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
What does that mean?
- [45:44]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
In other words, if you're going to redact all the faces of all of the women, you might as well do it across the board. I mean, how to. How do you know what that.
- [45:53]
Joe from Vanta
I.
- [45:53]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
That that woman, she might not look young, but she looks. I. I don't know. I guess if she's a wife, but even that seems like an odd distinction.
- [46:04]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, she's not redacted.
- [46:05]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
You know, we have this stuff, and it is just. And it is being released in no. In no particular fashion. It's all random. And in the end, we're left with. With evidence. Stuff that is submitted as evidence, but we don't know what it's evidence of.
- [46:26]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Right. And it's so extraordinary to look at this picture and look at how happy and powerful they appear in the photo. May not have been, but the photo says one story. Epstein died in jail by suicide. We think Ghislaine Maxwell, serving 20 years, although she's been moved from a jail to a prison camp in Texas. As we know, Bill Clinton fairly untouched by the Epstein crisis, given how much he rode around on Jeffrey Epstein's plane. And we don't know about the other two people. Okay. And then we have what looks like a warranty. The photo of a warranty for something called the jawbreaker gag. Michael, do you. Did you come across a jawbreaker gag when you were hanging out with Epstein?
- [47:14]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I have no idea what this is. I'm just trying to.
- [47:17]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
It says, always observe a person who has it. Who has a gag in their mouth.
- [47:22]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Speaking of context, a little would help here.
- [47:24]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Yeah. Never leave that person unattended. It's a choking hazard. Wow.
- [47:31]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I don't know. Is the implication that this is an S and M thing? I don't know what this is.
- [47:39]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Yeah. Let's move swiftly on. It's a bit grim. Certainly a choking hazard. And then I think this looks like the kind of glove that Ghislaine Maxwell liked.
- [47:51]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I. I'm. You're gonna have to go further than that.
- [47:56]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Whoa. I mean, I'm just stumped. I have not seen one of these before, and I edited these. What?
- [48:02]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
What is it? I have never seen anything remotely like this. What is the. What is these. One of what?
- [48:13]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, can you see it? Are you looking at it?
- [48:14]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I am looking at it.
- [48:16]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
It's obviously a glove for stimulation. I would call it a stimulator. I don't know. All I can tell you is I edited Cosmo, and I never saw one of these things.
- [48:28]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I see.
- [48:29]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
But I do think that Ghislaine was on Top of her sexual toys. I mean, when you read the Nobody's Girl, the Virginia Giuffre book, she seemed to. To be imaginative when it came to toys in the bedroom. Okay, and what does this say? Complete. What does that say? Complete shibari. Which looks up like, again, this is all sort of S and M stuff.
- [49:00]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I'm seriously out of my depth.
- [49:04]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Yeah, I'm out of my depth on this one. Anyway, let's move swiftly on. I've had enough of this. It's all a bit grim, but it's more grist to the mill for the Democrats. And Trump is not having a good week. You don't want photos of you with women's faces redacted. As you say, the implication is serious. And Indiana said, no, we're not going to do restricting. We're not going to do district redistricting. What's the word? We're not going to do redistricting. What's happened to me? I've got jet lag. And Kilmar Abrego Garcia is back home or was on his way back home last night. The government having failed repeatedly to find any reason to arrest him.
- [49:53]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Well, they keep finding reason to arrest him, but he keeps being. The courts say it is not legal reason.
- [50:02]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Right. So that feels like a win for the Democrats. And then Venezuela. What on earth is going on in Venezuela? We've got a huge aircraft carrier parked there. Hegseth may or may not be guilty of war crimes. We're waiting for the video to be released.
- [50:19]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
You know, the Venezuela thing, I think Trump is looking for a win there. And the win would be, would be regime change. If he pushes Maduro out, he will claim that as a win. And I'm trying to think if it is. I mean, Maduro is a bad guy.
- [50:40]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Maduro is definitely a bad guy. But America's history of regime change, certainly in the last 20, 25 years, hasn't been.
- [50:47]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
No, I mean, I mean, clearly. Actually, the interesting thing is how MAGA people react to that, you know, because, you know, clearly a pillar, a MAGA pillar. Is that America first. We really shouldn't be expending any capital, no less war powers on, on countries in which we have nothing at stake. And we have relatively, we don't, certainly don't have much at stake in Venezuela. So again, you know, we see these Magathese MAGA rifts developing almost by the day. And I would say that's a hard, that would be a hard one to justify.
- [51:37]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, and it's the sort of point that Marjorie Taylor Greene made in her when she was going around on her resignation tour that this is, as you say, it's not America first. It's not make America great again.
- [51:50]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yeah, well, I think, you know, and anything, you know, in the Marjorie Taylor Greene thing, I always think that this is, you know, she's a, whatever the point of attention that can, that she can focus on her, she will grab as. And it's not just her. It is all MAGA people. You know, the front ranks of the MAGA movement are attention getters. All of them.
- [52:17]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Right. Nancy Mace being another one.
- [52:19]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
All of them. And they really don't, I mean, if you think about it, they are loyal. They've all, they've all grown up or achieved what they've achieved on their basis of their loyalty to Donald Trump. But they are not really loyal to Donald Trump. They are all really singularly in this for their own game.
- [52:41]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Right?
- [52:42]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
And let's take a commercial break.
- [52:47]
Siemens/Xero Announcer
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Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
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Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
What? No.
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Siemens/Xero Announcer
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Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
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- [52:59]
Siemens/Xero Announcer
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Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Wait, no subscription?
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Siemens/Xero Announcer
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Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yeah.
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Ryan Reynolds
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Mint Mobile Announcer
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- [54:17]
Joe from Vanta
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- [54:49]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
And Michael and I are back inside Trump's head. I want to send a message to the White House about Donald Trump's concealer on his hand. He's using the wrong shade and he's not using a powder on it. So it looks as if you were to shake hands with him, you would come away with makeup. I mean, it's very strange why he's doing that. Obviously he's doing it to cover up his bruises, which we assume are, and maybe wrongly, but we assume are from some kind of intravenous treatment he's having. But the way he slathers the wrong color foundation on his hand is straight.
- [55:32]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I can give a little context here because, you know, obviously the physical Donald Trump is a major part of the Donald Trump brand. And, and he doesn't let any. It's as though you're not, you're not supposed to acknowledge this, that this is, that this is a significant part of what the man does and thinks about because nobody is allowed into this. You can't say anything about his hair. You can't say anything about his suits. You can't say anything now about his, about his hands. And this is different from other politicians who, you know, there's always somebody fluffing around saying, you know, oh, try this tie. Or, you know, or brushing the dandruff, the blue suit. Never with Donald Trump. Never can you address the hair. Never can you address the color of his face. So I am sure that this, that, that makeup he is, he is busily applying himself. You know, sending, you know, I don't know who he sends out to get it, but.
- [56:54]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
But it's the wrong color. Just get in the right color. There's 48 shades of concealer and foundation out there. Go to Sephora. You can order it online.
- [57:02]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Actually goes out to get it.
- [57:05]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, Natalie, maybe she's trying to send a message to us because there's no skin match there. Why is. Melania has sophisticated, you know, she understands makeup, can't speak.
- [57:15]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
So that's that's not.
- [57:17]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
There was a very strange video that Melania released last night of her and Donald Trump coming down the stairs at, I think the White House for the Congressional Ball, big Christmas event. And yet it had been slowed down, which made him look even slower and older than he has been looking over the last few weeks. That seemed strange signaling too.
- [57:47]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
We don't know upon whose signal that is. Maybe that was also released by the Democrats. Maybe they're just.
- [57:55]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Maybe, maybe. Anyway, it's not been a good week for Donald Trump and even his efforts to do what leaders always do when things are going bad domestically, which is to try and create some drama abroad. It doesn't feel like Venezuela is making sense for him.
- [58:09]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
No, but we ought to. And we may not have enough time. But I think we should get into, come back to Ukraine, Europe and Russia, because I think you can make a case that this is the pivot. It doesn't matter. Everything else is actually probably of lesser importance than what might add up that history might see as the earliest days of war in Europe.
- [58:44]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
So now we have been really trivial, spending all that time on the Epstein photographs. When you're right, what's, what's at stake here is a new world order where it's not clear that Western powers are going to, are going to stay.
- [58:58]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Well, it's not clear that the Donald Trump administration, which let's point out, will not last forever, but it's not clear that this administration would defend Europe. So the key pillar of post war, post World War II history may no longer exist. The key assumption of World War II history, post World War II history, may not exist.
- [59:30]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
So we had John Bolton talking with Hugh on the Daily Beast podcast on Wednesday about this very thing, this strange foreign policy document that the White House put out, which seemed, you know, John Bolton said it was completely clear that Trump hadn't read it. It's possible he might have read the introduction, but it was the 30 page document which, as you say, completely shifts the idea that America would protect Europe. Is this J.D. vance's whole theory? Is J.D. vance driving this?
- [60:04]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
No, I doubt it. But I think this is a good question. I mean, the question, I mean, what's driving this? And the, under the context of that document was, you know, was really not war and not Russia and not geopolitical, the geopolitical positioning of the US or its allies. The context was immigration. And essentially that was the message. Immigration in Europe had undermined, had transformed Europe into something that we white people, who we white people in America know longer had interest or faith in. So, you know, I detect the hand of Stephen Miller here.
- [61:09]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, we should come back on Tuesday and talk about it in more depth. And we should both read the 30 page document because it does. It certainly sent ripples of real alarm across Europe.
- [61:21]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Yeah, no, I have read it. I mean, I mean it is kind of extraordinary. Unless it is also meaningless, which is so many of the documents that come out of Trump world are meaningless because, because he doesn't read them and nothing really matters except what matters to him. So it's a, it's a, it's again a context problem.
- [61:48]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, and I think for Europe it matters, right, because it's giving them in insight into something they'd always taken for granted, which was American support. That's not going to necessarily come now from Donald Trump.
- [62:00]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
We don't really know which is the other thing about, about, about Donald Trump. Just because, just because his administration makes a pronouncement that does not mean it is in fact the policy of the administration or in fact it means what it says.
- [62:16]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Right. And we haven't even talked about RFK's pull ups at the airport. Can you do a pull up? I definitely can't do a pull up.
- [62:28]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Well, I think he did. He struggled for 20. No, I could not do 20. I could do one.
- [62:40]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Okay, well, one is better than none. All right, Michael, we've got more questions for Melania. Okay. And you're supposed to be telling us what's happening.
- [62:52]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
And I will. And I think I've been. I'm on a leash on this, but Monday I think I'm being let off the leash.
- [63:03]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Monday you're being let off the lawyer's leash, I'm assuming. So you'll be able to tell us what's going on.
- [63:07]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
So we're trying to do certain things but have to do them with. We can't announce them until they're done. But Monday we should be able to talk about this.
- [63:19]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Okay, good. Well, we've got some questions from people. Here's one from Chris and subpoena the parents of Melania. Perhaps Chris and in didn't realize that Melania's mother died and asked them how they got to know Melania was dating Trump and also how they process of their permanent US visa went with or without the help of Trump. That's a good question. We've talked a lot about Melania's own visa, but let's hear about how her parents came to live here. This is from Jean Simonez, 8908. When it comes to questions For Melania, it would be interesting to learn anything at all about what happened to her mother, where her mother was when she died, and what medical problems she had before. Before she died. I don't know if that's right.
- [64:02]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
This may be going far afield, but possibly, yes.
- [64:05]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
This is from Cara Baker. Please get historical Melania information from her sister. I don't know if she'll be honest or not, but I'm pretty sure she knows Melania's backstory. I didn't know Melania had a sister.
- [64:18]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
No, good point.
- [64:20]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Did you know she had a sister?
- [64:21]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
I did not.
- [64:22]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Okay, well, they. Maybe she doesn't have a system, but many people do. Right. I have a sister. You have a sister, and I have a sister. Yes. Questions for Melania. Has Trump household, nyc, Florida, la, ever employed an undocumented worker?
- [64:40]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
You know, I think that we know the answer to that, and I think the answer is yes.
- [64:46]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Okay, well, then we need to know about that. Ask Melania. This is from Elaine 57. Ask Melania. How many facelifts has she had? I don't know if that's relevant. I think she looks pretty good, actually. I always think she looks elegant. Canyon Flynn. Question for Melania. When you met your future husband, were you more attracted to his appearance or his personality? Just goes to show how interested people are in this.
- [65:22]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
No, I. You know, I think because this relationship remains fundamentally mysterious.
- [65:29]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Unknown. Unknown, yeah.
- [65:31]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
People want to know.
- [65:32]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Yep, yep. A lot of questions about her immigration status, about her documents, about her family's documents. People are really curious about this.
- [65:42]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
No, I. You know, as they well should be. I mean, Donald Trump has built a career on the basis of his views on immigration when clearly he is married to someone whose presence raises all kinds of questions.
- [66:00]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, and his first wife was an immigrant, too, right? Ivana. They both had very thick accents, both Melania and Ivana.
- [66:08]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Right. Which goes to our other discussion about. About Europe, Russia, and I'm eager to come back to this.
- [66:18]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Right. Well, I am interested in whether or not Melania is still speaking to Putin about the children that got stolen from the Ukraine. And Melania, if you're listening. Come on. Help your husband get the right fit for his hand concealer. It's not that hard. It's not that hard. Just take a picture. You could take a picture of his hand and match it against something online.
- [66:41]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
You know, as I keep trying to tell you, the truth is she couldn't care less about that or about anything having to do, I suspect, with her husband.
- [66:49]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
Well, my question for her will be what's going on with your husband's hands. Are you confident that he's in good health? Just throwing that out for good measure. All right, if you have been, thank you for listening to us. I feel like we wandered everywhere this morning.
- [67:07]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
And enjoyed it.
- [67:08]
Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
And enjoyed it. It's great to be back. Don't forget to subscribe to the Daily Beast podcast. Thank you. We hit over 500,000 subscribers. I buried the lead. So exciting. While I was away I woke up to the news. Very exciting. And please leave us a comment. Get all your friends to subscribe and what else?
- [67:28]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
And we should thank our top level members and they are Sandra Clark Methinks Travel With Carl Andrew Beaver the Capinator Harry Clark Dawn McCarthy Daniel dog lover M. Griner Fulvia Orlando Herbie Andrew Melor Las Conde Bonzo Val Love Francesco Andrea Hodel.
- [68:00]
Siemens/Xero Announcer
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Host 1 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a woman)
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- [68:11]
Siemens/Xero Announcer
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- [68:43]
Grainger Announcer (alternate)
Conditions apply if you're an H Vac technician and a call comes in. Grainger knows that you need a partner that helps you find the right product fast and hassle free. And you know that when the first problem of the day is a clanking blower motor, there's no need to break a sweat. With Grainger's easy to use website and product details, you're confident you'll soon have everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgranger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
- [69:15]
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- [69:58]
Host 2 (likely a journalist or commentator, possibly a man named Michael)
Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily Beast podcast@thedailybeast.com podcasts if you enjoyed this.
- [70:08]
Grainger Announcer (alternate)
Episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and subscribe. Support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to thedailybeast.com membership podcast and sign up today.