This Is How Trump Goons Exploit His Mental Decline

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Daily Beast Podcast

Episode Title: This Is How Trump Goons Exploit His Mental Decline
Date: January 13, 2026
Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: David Rothkopf

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Overview

In this lively and hard-hitting episode, Joanna Coles welcomes foreign policy expert and author David Rothkopf for a fast-paced, candid conversation about the rapid acceleration of Donald Trump's cognitive decline in office and how his closest GOP allies are exploiting his diminished mental state to further a radical agenda. The discussion darts from the latest White House debacles—spanning Venezuela and Minneapolis to inside anecdotes from the Clinton years—while also reflecting on broader themes: erosion of democratic institutions, dangers of autocracy, Democratic Party strategy, and the cult of enablers around powerful leaders.

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Main Discussion Points & Key Insights

1. Trump's Accelerating Mental Decline and GOP Manipulation

• Late-Stage Trump: Rothkopf describes Trump as being in “late stage Donald Trump” (04:00), noting frequent public lapses and bizarre behavior at major meetings:
  • “He can’t hold a thought in his head between his ears for more than five seconds at a time. He looks completely lost.” (04:23, David Rothkopf)
• Puppet President: GOP figures—Rubio, Stephen Miller, J.D. Vance—exploit this decline, slipping him notes or policies to rubber-stamp. Trump parrots whatever is suggested, no matter how extreme:
  • “If you’re Stephen Miller, you hand him a note and say, ‘Take over Greenland,’ or ‘White people only,’ or ‘Let’s shut down the Fed.’ And Trump goes, ‘uh huh, am I going to get credit for that?’” (02:06, 06:37, David Rothkopf)
• No Resistance Within Team: Trump’s circle encourages his decline because it removes checks on their agenda: “Nobody is saying no to him on these things.” (07:13, David Rothkopf)

2. Extreme Domestic and Foreign Policy Shifts

• Chaos in 2026: The pace of radical action has accelerated:
  • Venezuelan adventure: Trump appoints himself “acting president of Venezuela.” (06:04, discussed throughout 12:02–13:02)
  • Eroding international alliances: Threatens Colombia, Cuba, and even U.S. withdrawal from NATO.
  • Deploying ICE agents domestically: Authorizes deadly force, met with bragging, no accountability:
    • “When they kill innocent people, the administration’s response is...all of them saying, ‘Hey, we did the right thing.’” (12:12, David Rothkopf)
  • Attacks on Federal Reserve independence and threatening Fed Chair Jerome Powell with DOJ charges.
• Floodgates Open: This year’s escalation dwarfs recent political chaos. “It feels as if we’ve had a year in the first 10 days.” (11:57, Joanna Coles)

3. Dangerous Normalization & Autocratic Drift

• Suppression of Dissent: ICE agent granted “total immunity” after shooting a Minneapolis mother. The administration’s open disregard for constitutional and human rights is “vile, despicable, and extralegal.” (13:15–13:22, David Rothkopf)
• Media Manipulation & Press Restrictions: Trump controls access, undermines press freedom, and launches a “massive MAGA takeover of mainstream media.” (48:28, David Rothkopf)

4. The Cult of Enablers and Bubble Thinking Around Power

• Team of Sycophants: Trump has eliminated resistance, filling roles only with loyalists, avoiding Senate confirmations, and creating a cabinet without independent viewpoints. (43:24, David Rothkopf)
• Comparison with Past Presidents: Rothkopf reflects on the Clinton years, noting that power creates a “bubble mentality” and that, “every president is a little bit bent...but Trump just wants to feel powerful.” (40:45, 45:08, David Rothkopf)

5. Democratic Party Response and Looming 2026 Elections

• Democratic Weakness: Congressional Democrats are, “doing...bupkis, which is to say, nothing,” resorting to tepid notes of disappointment. (24:52, David Rothkopf)
• Need for Simple, Assertive Messaging: Party should stop “trying to meet a fascist halfway” and clearly communicate core values. (27:52, David Rothkopf)
• Localize the Fight: Winning individual House and Senate races is key—“we don’t have to have a star...What we need is for Trump to lose control of the House and/or Senate so we can stop this madness.” (25:24, David Rothkopf)

6. Erasing the 20th Century

• Historical Regression:
  • “It’s as if he’s trying to erase the 20th century.” (19:02, Joanna Coles)
  • “One by one, Donald Trump is eliminating all of the major strides that the United States has made in the past 125 years.” (18:59, David Rothkopf)
  • Trump’s reported admiration for President McKinley (late 19th century) as a backwards-looking model. (20:00–21:00)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump's Mental State:

  • “Late stage Donald Trump. Losing it.” (04:10, David Rothkopf)
  • “Where am I? He’s lost.” (04:58, David Rothkopf)

• On Policy Extremism:

  • “He’s a useful idiot, not only for the Russians, but for Marco Rubio, J.D. Vance, Stephen Miller.” (05:29, Joanna Coles)

• On Autocracy:

  • “No president has done more to restrict free access to information about the White House than Trump...This has been the worst year in terms of freedom of the press that the United States has ever seen.” (48:28, David Rothkopf)
  • “The only constraint on my behavior is my own morality.” (52:18, Donald Trump as quoted)
  • “Every red light should be flashing. We have entered totalitarianism.” (53:19, David Rothkopf)

• On Democratic Strategy:

  • “Let’s stop trying to meet a fascist halfway. Let’s stand up for what our values are and let’s be clear in how we communicate them.” (28:19, David Rothkopf)

• On Historical Regression:

  • “He is trying to erase the 20th century.” (19:33, David Rothkopf)

• On Working with Bill Clinton:

  • “It was very clear there was a pattern of behavior for Bill Clinton that was inappropriate...so much was achieved and they were so angry he was willing to put it all at risk...for this kind of level of gratification.” (38:01–41:08, David Rothkopf)

• Comic Relief—Doritos & Melania Movie Protest:

  • “Life is short. I’m not going to fight the Dorito impulse. Particularly given everything that we’re seeing here.” (14:12, David Rothkopf)
  • Plans for Rocky Horror-style protest at the Melania biopic, including dressing as Melania and Donald. (15:22, Joanna Coles)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Trump’s Mental Decline & Exploitation: 02:00–07:15
• Venezuela & Oil Exec Meeting Anecdote: 06:04–06:37, 12:02–13:02
• ICE and Minneapolis Shooting Controversy: 07:06–09:58
• Press Restrictions/Media Manipulation: 48:28–50:26
• Democratic Party Strategy & Response: 24:36–28:40
• Policy Regression and ‘Erasing the 20th Century’: 18:59–21:36
• Inside the Clinton Administration: 36:44–43:17
• UFC Fight Scheduling Over G20 Summit: 21:26–23:11
• Ending on Warning of Authoritarianism: 52:08–54:10

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Tone & Style

• Witty, incisive, and at times gallows-humored.
• Frequent satirical jabs at Trump, his circle, and enablers, contrasted with earnest warnings about the stakes for democracy.
• Blunt language—“useful idiot,” “vile, despicable behavior,” “team of sycophants”—and vivid metaphors.

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Conclusion

The episode powerfully spotlights both the dangers of Trump’s cognitive decline and the opportunism of those around him, warning of the real-world consequences for democracy, rule of law, and social progress. Rothkopf pushes for courage and clarity from Democratic leaders, while Coles keeps the tone sharp, irreverent, and deeply engaged with real-time political events.

Transcript

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[David Rothkopf]

Marco Rubio folded up a little note, handed it to Trump. Trump opened up the note.

[Joanna Coles]

I think it was like go back to the guy from Chevron and Trump.

[David Rothkopf]

Just read it out loud straight because those parts of his brain just aren't working anymore. But if you're Stephen Miller, you know, you hand him a note and you say take over Greenland. Or you hand him a note and you say white people only. Or you hand them a note and you say let's shut down the Fed. And Trump goes, uh huh you know, am I going to get credit for that?

[Joanna Coles]

I'm Joanna Coles, this is the Daily Beast podcast and I'm so excited to bring the conversation. I've just had a rousing conversation with David Rothkopf, who just left lists everything that is going on right now. And it's as if Donald Trump has tried to erase the entire 20th century. And we take a fascinating wandering, by the way, about what it was actually like working with Bill Clinton when you knew he was having all these extracurricular romantic sexual activities. David worked for the Clinton administration. He was also the editor of Foreign Policy magazine. And he just briefly such a clear, frankly, bomb throwing perspective on what's going on right now. I can't wait for you to join us and for us to get into it. David Rothkopf, where do we begin? I mean, is it Iran, Venezuela? Minneapolis, Jerome Powell, Trump staring vacantly out of the window, Trump trying not to grab Carolyn Levitt. I want to grab Carolyn Levitt, but not for the same reasons. I think we, where do we begin, David? How bad is it?

[David Rothkopf]

You know, we talk periodically and I think one of the.

[Joanna Coles]

We're talking more frequently.

[David Rothkopf]

No, I know, I like it. I'm not complaining. But what I'm saying is I think we have to say that the decline of Donald Trump is accelerating, right? I mean, this we, you know, sometimes people talk about like late stage capitalism. We're in late stage Donald Trump. Late stage Donald Trump.

[Joanna Coles]

That's good.

[David Rothkopf]

Losing it. And you know, we saw it like last week he had a meeting of oil executives, which by the way, went terribly badly for him. But in the middle of the meeting, he like gets up, wanders over to the window, stares out at his ballroom, starts talking about the ballroom. You know, when he did the Venezuela announcement of his big triumph in Venezuela, in the middle of the thing, he starts talking about sending troops into the streets. He can't hold a thought in his head between his ears for more than five seconds at a time. He looks completely lost. And yet at the same time, the people around him are taking advantage of the mental vacancy between his ears and pushing forward their extreme agendas faster than ever. You know, going after the Fed, going after ice in the street, pushing, going after Greenland, attacking NATO, doing things that would have been considered crazy, inconceivable, instantly impeachable offenses. And they're doing it all at once because Trump is just there going, where am I? You know, I mean, he's lost.

[Joanna Coles]

I mean, I shouldn't be laughing, but if we can't Laugh, we're going to cry. So he's a useful idiot, not only for the Russians, but for Marco Rubio. J.D. vance, Stephen Miller.

[David Rothkopf]

Well, look, I mean, the perfect example is that during the meeting with the oil execs to get them to congratulate him on giving them Venezuela. And by the way, over the weekend on Truth Social, what did Donald Trump do? He showed his, his, his new title of acting president of Venezuela.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, I missed that. He actually put that out there on.

[David Rothkopf]

Social that he's the acting president of Venezuela, which I thought was cuckoo. But you get an idea of how the Trump administration is currently working because Marco Rubio folded up a little note, handed it to Trump. Trump opened up the note and he's like, you know, your fly is open. I mean, the note said something. You know, it was just like the guy down the hall, you know, I.

[Joanna Coles]

Think it was like, go back to the guy from Chevron.

[David Rothkopf]

Right. The guy from Chevron wants to say something.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah.

[David Rothkopf]

And Trump just read it out loud straight, because those parts of his brain just aren't working anymore. But if you're Stephen Miller, you know, you hand him a note and you say, take over Greenland. Or you hand him a note and you say, white people only. Or you hand him a note and you say, let's shut down the Fed. And Trump goes, uh huh, you know, am I going to get credit for that? And that's where we are.

[Joanna Coles]

Or if you're Stephen Miller, you say, send another 3,000 ICE agents into Minneapolis. Let's double down.

[David Rothkopf]

Nobody is saying no to him on these things. And you know, Kristi Noem, she certainly doesn't know what she's doing. I mean, she was on the Sunday shows and she couldn't come up with a defense. They put out a video of this shooting incident which they said proves this woman was, you know, an attacker. And it proved the opposite. It proved that she was just somebody's mom driving the minivan with kids toys in the back street, down the street, when some unhinged ice thug fired three shots into her face and killed her. And so you've got extremists and incompetence working hand in hand to produce the worst possible policies in the worst possible way.

[Joanna Coles]

And also, if you don't agree with them, you really, you really have to deal with a lot of hassles. So we suddenly have Jerome.

[David Rothkopf]

Hassles. Hassles.

[Joanna Coles]

But I was just thinking about it from Jerome Powell's point of view. I'm not sure he ever thought he would put a video out on social media saying that he was facing charges from the Department of Justice.

[David Rothkopf]

Well, who would have ever thought that would happen? But just to take the first half of your comment where you said, if you don't agree with them. So here's Trump coming back from, you know, whatever happens at Mar a Lago, wherever he is on the weekend, where they inject him with sheep placentas or whatever they do to keep him, you know, awake at night. And somebody asked him about the shooting in Minneapolis and said, was deadly force, you know, appropriate. And Trump's response was what? He said, well, they were very disrespectful.

[Joanna Coles]

It's. I mean, it's just.

[David Rothkopf]

Is that, again, that's a shooting offense in the United States. Now you get the death penalty for being disrespectful to Donald Trump. Right. And, you know, Jerome Powell did the only thing he could do. The president. I mean, the Justice Department is the injustice department, and it's the obstruction of Justice Department, and it will do whatever Trump wants. And it is undertaking this investigation, which is completely, you know, made up charges about, you know, construction on a Fed building that nobody ever cared about that had cost overruns, which, by the way, is pretty rich in the middle of Trump illegally renovating the White House to the tune of hundreds of 400 million. I think the price tag is now.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[David Rothkopf]

Guaranteed. We can have a little running bet here. Guaranteed. It costs a billion dollars. Guaranteed. Right. But anyway, he goes after Jerome Powell, and Jerome Powell, who actually has a sense of responsibility despite the fact, parenthetically, and here you and I know something Trump doesn't know. Trump appointed Jerome Powell. Right, Right.

[Joanna Coles]

Was Drum. He's forgotten that. He's forgotten that.

[David Rothkopf]

I don't even remember that.

[Joanna Coles]

I mean, he should really keep going. Jerome Powell should just keep saying, as, when you appointed me, Mr. President, you told me to.

[David Rothkopf]

Yeah, he should. Although I'm not sure he's so proud of that. But in any event, Jerome Powell feels a sense of responsibility towards the US Economy. And so he has to point out that the reason that he is being attacked has to do with his independence, has to do with him following the oath of office he took and the responsibilities that his agency has been given, you know, which is to look at the facts and not to succumb to political pressure.

[Joanna Coles]

That thing of flooding the zone. They're certainly flooding the zone. How would you judge the beginning of 2026 against last year?

[David Rothkopf]

The floodgates are open. I mean, you know, it took them a little while to get going Last year, and they were get, you know, I mean, they started out with Elon Musk. You know, I remember that, you know, that's what we were talking about at the beginning and we were doing, you.

[Joanna Coles]

Know, well, there was Doge, and then Elon spun out in April, I think. Right. So he was in and out.

[David Rothkopf]

That was a flop. And they, they, you know, they started doing different parts of Project 2025. And, and, and, you know, they did a lot of damage over the course of that time and the big ugly bill and so forth. But here, you know, it's January, what, 11th or something like that?

[Joanna Coles]

12Th, who knows? It feels as if we've had a year in the first 10 days.

[David Rothkopf]

Right. And, you know, what have we had? We've said we've invaded Venezuela. The president has declared that we are going to run it forever. He's taken over the country. He's declared himself the acting president. He's threatened Colombia, he's threatened Cuba over the weekend. I don't know if you noticed this, but Trump also said he'd be happy if Marco Rubio were the new president. President of Cuba. He said, we are going into mainland. We're not contemplating it. Trump has said if NATO stands up to us. Well, I'm not so sure we even need NATO so bad as it is that he's willing to attack a NATO ally. He's now saying he doesn't even know that we need NATO. And he sent troops into, you know, Minneapolis, ramped them up. They're killing people. When they kill innocent people. The administration's response to that. And it's the president and Kristi Noem and Tom Homan, all of them, and J.D. vance all saying, hey, we did the right thing. We don't accept any, you know, wrong. Anything wrong here. If you mess with ICE people, if you protest ice, then you're going to. This is going to happen to you, contrary to, I don't know, the First Amendment of the Constitution.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. And J.D. vance said, you know, that the ICE agent had total immunity.

[David Rothkopf]

Total immunity.

[Joanna Coles]

Even Tom Homan didn't say that. Tom Homan said, let's just have the investigation.

[David Rothkopf]

Yeah. And by the way, there was a nice little exchange there when they said in the Sunday show, so did you steal $50,000? And he was like, well, it wasn't 50,000, which I thought wasn't.

[Joanna Coles]

This was Tom Homans being offered a payment for something. And it was in a bag of Doritos.

[David Rothkopf]

Right, Exactly.

[Joanna Coles]

Because he looks like he could be a Dorito guy. Well, look, who is a Dorito guy. Let's be honest.

[David Rothkopf]

Let's not go after the Dorito eaters in your audience. Cause I'm done. Because I like a nice.

[Joanna Coles]

I was gonna say I like a Dorito. And also, you can't do that thing with Doritos where you only eat half a bag. Cause it's you versus 20,000 food scientists who've engineered this thing to set your body on fire.

[David Rothkopf]

Yeah. And honestly, I'm not against it. Life is short.

[Joanna Coles]

Life is short. I mean, I could make a terrible joke there.

[David Rothkopf]

I'm not going to fight the Dorito impulse. Particularly given everything that we're seeing here.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[David Rothkopf]

I mean, seriously, you know, if you're not sitting there with your hand in a bag of Doritos as the President's going, let's shut down the Fed's independence, I'm going to put my own puppet in charge of the place. And, you know. And next week, we have to deal with the opening of the Melania movie. Oh, my God.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I'm assuming you're taking a big group of friends to see it.

[David Rothkopf]

David, I was hoping you would go with me to see the Meladia.

[Joanna Coles]

I think we should. I want to do a watch party. The complexity is it opens first in movie theaters, though I mentioned on Saturday that someone had been at a theatre when a trailer came up and everybody in the audience started booing it.

[David Rothkopf]

I think the Daily Beast should buy a block of tickets, buy out the theater, sell tickets.

[Joanna Coles]

We should. We should totally do it.

[David Rothkopf]

Turn it into the kind of Rocky Horror Picture show where people are shouting at the screen at certain points and.

[Joanna Coles]

We should ask people to dress as Melania and Donald. Yeah, yeah, we should totally do that.

[David Rothkopf]

Now you're talking. That would be an event. And people everywhere would start going to the Melania movie as a way of protesting.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, that's a very good idea. Yes, That's a very good idea. The Melania protest. Yes. Excellent.

[David Rothkopf]

Yeah, let's see it. I mean, I mean, nothing could be more horrifying anyway.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, we should just ask people to write in. Send us your suggestions for how we would protest using the Melania movie as a focal point. I sense this audience will have really smart ideas for it.

[David Rothkopf]

I sense they work. Did you. Have you watched the trailer?

[Joanna Coles]

Of course I've watched the trailer. I've watched it on repeat. I have it on a loop in my office. David.

[David Rothkopf]

And she turns to the camera and it begins. She says, here we go again.

[Joanna Coles]

Here we go again. And then he said, did you watch It. Did you watch it? And she goes, I will see it on television news, but she won't see it on certain television news. She won't see it on cbs, Although maybe CBS will now have it on a loop.

[David Rothkopf]

I love your Melania impression, but thank you, David.

[Joanna Coles]

Thank you for complimenting my. My Melania impression. First Lady. It's happening. It's happening. We are all losing our minds. We are losing our minds here. It's an absolute shit show.

[David Rothkopf]

That's why it is so important to maintain your Dorito intake, I think, because otherwise your blood sugar will fall off and you can't handle it. But that is a question.

[Joanna Coles]

And can we just say props to Nikki Glazer for a shout out against CBS News, given that it was on. Given that it was on cbs.

[David Rothkopf]

She did a shout out against CBS News. Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

She said.

[David Rothkopf]

Yes. She said.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, you saw it.

[David Rothkopf]

See, more bs.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah.

[David Rothkopf]

Right. So she did a swipe at cbs. She did a swipe at the Epstein list.

[Joanna Coles]

Yep.

[David Rothkopf]

Not only making a reference to the fact that best editing would go to the Justice Department for editing it, but also to all the A listers who were actually on the list, which was a bit of a dig at the.

[Joanna Coles]

End of the day. Well, and then they flashed to Bill Maher.

[David Rothkopf]

The only thing that I will deny is that Bill Maher is a comedian. The dude is not funny. And enough is enough.

[Joanna Coles]

Enough is enough. As Wanda Sykes said, she's like, less.

[David Rothkopf]

Wanda Sykes said less.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, Wanda Sykes was on form. I felt like after a quiet year last year when nobody did any politics, we're now going back to embracing Hollywood's wilder side.

[David Rothkopf]

That's a really good point. I'd like to disagree with you. No, no. I was happy to see Nikki Glaser say something. I was happy to see Wanda Sykes say something. I was happy that on the red carpet, Gene Smart said something going in about this is what we've got to do to stand up for our decency as a country. But the vast majority of people say nothing. And here we are talking about, you know, when I look at what Donald Trump is doing right now, eliminating social progress that we've made on racial issues, on gender issues, on the international community, on getting rid of our alliances, on how we treat our neighbors, on going backwards, on environmental progress, on getting rid of the independence of the Fed one by one. And this, I'm not exaggerating here. One by one, Donald Trump is eliminating all of the major strides that the United States has made in the past 125 years.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, I mean, it does feel. Someone said to me yesterday, it feels as if he is trying to erase the 20th century, as if it just didn't happen.

[David Rothkopf]

That was me, by the way.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, that was you? Well, it was a very, very good lie. I'm glad it was you.

[David Rothkopf]

Memorable experience for you.

[Joanna Coles]

It's such a good line. It's as if he's trying to erase the 20th century.

[David Rothkopf]

Yeah, no, no, I was actually. I was thinking of writing a column for the Daily Beast that said that.

[Joanna Coles]

That's where I read it. That's where I read it. But I think we had that conversation. We actually. Or maybe it was a text exchange.

[David Rothkopf]

But that's what he's doing. It was a text exchange.

[Joanna Coles]

It was a.

[David Rothkopf]

He is trying to erase the 20th century.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah.

[David Rothkopf]

And go back. I don't know. One of the weirdest things, truly, that has happened, and pretty destructive. Somebody at some point between Trump Presidency one and Trump Presidency two, was sitting at Mar A Lago, having whatever you have at Mar A Lago, and he said, you know who you should emulate? Donald. And Trump goes, who? What does emulate mean? And it's not the same as emulate President William McKinley. And Trump goes, why? And you know, they go, well, he had tariffs. You like tariffs? And it's like, oh, that's great. And he was president during the Gilded Age. And Trump's like, yeah, the Gilded Age. That sounds good. I like the guild things. And he went out and he started conquering the world. The United States was taking things over again. And Trump's like, yeah. And so Trump several times since has said, I want to be like a great president, like William McKinley. And that was the end of the 19th century and everything since William McKinley. Trump's eliminating social progress, racial progress, international progress, America's growth in the world, American standing in the world. What the person neglected to tell Trump was how the story ended for William McKinley, which was. He was assassinated.

[Joanna Coles]

He was assassinated. Yep. Well, that's not going to happen to Donald Trump because he is building his beautiful ballroom. Beautiful ballroom. Beautiful ballroom. And it's going to have, he said, four inch thick bulletproof glass so they can have the full inauguration there. Despite the fact one of the great things about America is we have the inauguration outside where we can see your crowd size.

[David Rothkopf]

But you know what else happened in the past week? Just another story in this same vein, because the beautiful ballroom, crazy thing that it is, there's a G20 summit coming in June, and the G20 summit now is going to have to reschedule some of its key events. Why? Because Donald Trump has scheduled on his birthday, an outdoor UFC match on the south Lawn of the White House. And so this whole international summit of the leading countries of the world is going to have to reschedule its critical meetings in order that there could be a wrestling match outdoors on the south lawn of.

[Joanna Coles]

Come on, David. Wouldn't you rather. Be honest. Wouldn't you rather watch a UFC live wrestling match on the grounds of. Of maybe even on the Mar A Lago patio at the White House than sit around with 20 global leaders. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Chatting away about climate change and stuff that, you know, it just sounds. Well, it sounds boring. Donald Trump doesn't want to have to do that. Imagine Those summits, the G7, the G8, the G20. Nobody knows the difference between any of them. They've been talking about the same stuff for the last 20 years.

[David Rothkopf]

Melania has been talking about G Spot. What is that? I don't know. The G20. None of it matters to me.

[Joanna Coles]

None of it matters. But ufc, Dana White. Dana White's a friend. He's on the board of Facebook, strangely, but truly.

[David Rothkopf]

But ufc, the head of the Department of Education.

[Joanna Coles]

So I don't find that surprising. And I'm with the president of finding the idea of a live UFC match more interesting than the G20.

[David Rothkopf]

Yeah, well, you know, but also, you'll.

[Joanna Coles]

Have all those translators. It will make it different, difficult to listen to. You'll have the Finnish guy that you don't recognize even when he's sitting right opposite you, even though he's been kissing.

[David Rothkopf]

Your ass and he's the only world leader you like.

[Joanna Coles]

I can't. I can't do a Finnish accent. Can you do a Finnish accent?

[David Rothkopf]

No.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, you didn't even try. What was that? You didn't even try.

[David Rothkopf]

Listen to your impressions on this podcast. I'm leaving that to you.

[Joanna Coles]

I feel like it'll be Russian. It'll be Russian. Or maybe a little bit of Swedish in there. I'm not sure I can do a Finnish accent. I'm going to practice it for next time. But you're right. So 20 world leaders asked to reschedule because. Well, this is.

[David Rothkopf]

All of this goes back to your prior question, which is, how's 2026 going so far?

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[David Rothkopf]

And the point is, in the past two weeks to. Not even two weeks, all this insanity has been compressed, and all you can do is just say, well, are we going to have more of this? Is it going to happen faster? And then you look at Trump. And you say, he doesn't know where he is. He is out of control. The people around him are in a feeding frenzy. You know, the Democrats in Congress are sitting there trying to figure out who, what adjective they can put in their angry note to say, oh, we're super disappointed.

[Joanna Coles]

It reminds me of when you do something really bad and your parents call you in and they go, we're very disappointed. And you were very disappointed. And you're like, good, I'm going to do it again. Yeah. What are the Democrats doing? What are they doing, David?

[David Rothkopf]

Most of the Democrats, and certainly the congressional Democrats are doing, as we say in my part of New Jersey, bupkis, which is to say nothing. You know, they're not, they're not doing anything. But, you know, there are the occasional stories. You know, there is a new mayor in New York just the past couple of days. He's announced a new program to do universal child care. He's announced a new program to deal with, I don't know, to build toilets outside. He's doing some things to save money. And in other words, I think there's some Democrats that, that are doing things that will be politically resonant, that will matter later this year. Over the weekend, what's her name? Mary Patola, the congresswoman from Alaska announced she's running for the Senate. Now, this was a safe Senate seat, and it was like a plus 13 Trump seat. And so for her to do the math and say, I think I'm going to run for the Senate instead of my good safe House seat suggests that Trump is in trouble. And, you know, frankly, what I would like to see the Democrats do is focus on winning as many House seats and as many Senate seats as they can. They don't have to. We don't have to have a star. We don't have to have a big leader in the party. What we need is for Trump to lose control of the House and, or the Senate so that we can stop this madness, because prior to that, it's going to be very hard to do.

[Joanna Coles]

So, David, do you think for the midterms, the Democrats ideas should all be local? I mean, we keep hearing that it's a wide tent and you've got Mamdani in New York and then you've got the moderates Mikey Sherrill and Abigail Spanberger in New Jersey and Virginia, respectively. I mean, we had Congressman Seth Moulton on the podcast last week, and he was saying there is no national leader of the Democrats. Do we not need. Well, is there no need for one right now, because the thing that Trump does so effectively is crystallize the Republican message.

[David Rothkopf]

I think there is a need for leadership. I don't know that there is a need for a particular leader. I think there is a need for certain principles of leadership. And among those principles of leadership are to stand up to Trump, to fight, to fight back. The people who are making problems, not just for Democrats, but for the country, are the ones who are like, well, let's meet them halfway. Let's try to come up with a compromise. Let's try to see the good in them. I was watching this with this over the weekend where there were a couple of people going, well, we don't have the full story yet on what happened in Minneapolis. Was shooting this woman. It's like, what are you talking about? We have seen it from five different angles. We know exactly what happened. There was no grounds whatsoever to shoot that woman in the face three times.

[Joanna Coles]

And she was unarmed. I mean, the biggest, she was uncle.

[David Rothkopf]

Was unarmed and she posed no threat to this guy. And the guy was clearly unhinged. And the Democrats who do that, who give a little bit, who normalize, give license to Trump. And so those people are doing damage. So when we establish the principles for Democratic leaders, one of them is, let's stop trying to meet a fascist halfway. Let's stand up for what our values are and let's be clear in how we communicate them. Let's not go into Chuck Schumer stories about a made up family and some kind of thing that happened in Queens. Once that take us away from the core issue. Our fundamental rights are being threatened. Our economy is being threatened. People aren't going to be able to pay for their health care. The environment is being destroyed. Our standing in the world is being destroyed. We're about to blow up NATO, we're about to blow up the Fed. These are simple things that can be communicated simply. And AOC is communicating it simply, but so is JB Pritzker. There are people, you know, Abigail Spanberger, you know, we talk about how Abigail Spanberger and Mikey Sherrill and Zoran Mandami or Michelle Wu. They're all in different places. But on core issues like people should have their health care taken care of. We shouldn't destroy the environment. We should have fairer taxes for people. We shouldn't have ice in the streets killing innocent citizens. There are a lot of issues in which all Democrats agree. So let's be clear, let's communicate that and then let's focus on how do you win individual elections.

[Joanna Coles]

I mean, many people point out that, in fact, President Obama actually deported way more people than Donald Trump is deporting or has deported. I think he did a total of 3 million people deported back to South American countries, largely where they came from, but chose not to make any political capital out of it. Just went on quietly. Do you think Democrats want to return to that? How do they handle the immigration issue? And is this a sort of tipping point for Donald Trump in terms of it becoming. I mean, it was something he basically won the election on, closing the borders. Has it now tipped to a point where this is a negative issue for Republicans?

[David Rothkopf]

Well, it is because, I mean, he was doing pretty well on the southern border and he shut down the southern border and people were like, okay. And you weren't going to get a lot of Democrats pushing back on that. It was very clear because frankly, people want secure borders. But when he then said, I'm going to turn ICE into my own Gestapo and send it into American cities and round up innocent people and shoot mothers in the face and tear daddies away from their family, I mean, I saw a story over the weekend where they deported somebody who was in a vegetative state, you know, away from.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, they couldn't protest. They couldn't protest, but.

[David Rothkopf]

They couldn't protest. But, I mean, this is a vile, despicable behavior that's also extralegal and the courts are against it and so forth, and the people are against it. And so he's losing ground. This was one of his. What were his issues? Immigration and the economy. Where has he lost the most ground? Immigration and the economy. And Republicans, you know, gradually this year is going to be about them waking up and going, holy shit, the guy's losing his mind. He's 79 years old. He doesn't have a lot of political clout. I've sold my soul to the devil for this guy. How do I back out of this? You know, how do I find a new position on this?

[Joanna Coles]

David, hold on just one second. We're going to take some ads.

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[David Rothkopf]

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[Joanna Coles]

And I'm back with David Rothkopf discussing what else? Obviously Donald Trump. I mean, we're already beginning to see Republicans at the perhaps beginning of standing up to him. You had the group that joined with the Democrats to say you can't send in armed troops to Venezuela.

[David Rothkopf]

So you had five people in that. You had a number of people in the Epstein files. Let's release the Epstein files now. The administration, by the way, was supposed to have released them a month ago. They've released a fraction of a fraction of them. We're still a long way from getting it, but There was a group there. You're starting to see some peeling away in the corporate community. I thought one of the interesting punchlines of that oil meeting was that one of the companies that they specifically named as having had their assets taken by the Venezuelans was Exxon. And Exxon went to the meeting and said, yeah, I don't know if we really want to invest in Venezuela. And this really pissed off Trump. And Trump said, well, I don't know that we want Exxon to invest in Venezuela, but you're starting to have corporates go, how close do we want to be to this guy as he melts down? You know, how do we protect our interests in the long run? And I think that that process, you know, as you're looking at 20, 26, we've seen craziness out of the White House. But you've also seen remarkably fast erosion in core bases of Trump support. Not as much as there needs to be, but enough that you and I now have something to talk about when we make these lists, because it's happening faster and faster every day.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, and the companies that didn't have a front row seat to his inauguration look smarter. The CEOs that have kept their heads under the radar look smarter too. So I was going to ask you about your former boss. As we are always telling people on this podcast, you worked for the Clinton administration. Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton have both been called in the Epstein by the Oversight Committee for the Epstein hearings. And they both appear to not be responding to the subpoenas, as far as I understand it. Do you have any sort of insight onto how they. Do you have any insight into how they should be thinking of this Epstein business?

[David Rothkopf]

They should just, you know, respond to subpoenas, ask for things to be public conduct discussions in the public. They say they have nothing to hide. You know, the big thing about people who have nothing to hide is don't act like you're hiding things.

[Joanna Coles]

That's a great line. Why do people do that? Yes.

[David Rothkopf]

Well, I don't know. But, you know, there's another line in Washington that's the, you know, this line in the book, which is, it's not the crime, it's the, the COVID up. It's people, they're just afraid. I don't know, they have guilty consciences. I once had a conversation with Madeline Albright when I was writing a book about something about Washington. And she said, we all have imposter syndrome. She said, we all feel like we don't really deserve this kind of big, powerful job. And I think that manifests itself in a lot of different ways. But I think a lot of people are like, well, I must have done something wrong or they're going to come after me for something wrong or whatever. And I mean, let's be honest, there's a reason Bill Clinton has a guilty conscience. I don't know that he's committed a crime. I don't know that he did anything wrong with Jeffrey Epstein. But the guy, you know, he colored outside the lines a lot.

[Joanna Coles]

He colored outside the lines a lot. That's a very good description. Did you know that while you were working with him?

[David Rothkopf]

I think people. Yes, I think the short answer to that question is yes, people do it. Because I would come up to people and I can't believe I'm saying this, but I would run into women and they would say, oh, well, I knew Clinton before the campaign and he used to come to town and then he'd call me at 11:30 at night and he'd come up to my room and he'd say, you want to do this or you want to do that? And, you know, it was only up to this certain kind of a thing. And he only wanted a certain kind. Do I have to. I'm not going to get more explicit here. And he only wanted a certain kind of a thing. The first woman who said that to me was like, that's gross. I don't really. Why are you telling me this? But three different women told me the exact same story. And so it was very clear there was a pattern of behavior for Bill Clinton that was inappropriate. And, and, you know, that you, that, you know, was, you know, there was something unsavory going on there. And, but, you know, it was kind of a time where you're like, okay, well, you know, let's grit our teeth and you know, we're fighting for, you know, a better world. And you know, you know, if he's going to help us get there, then let's, you know, use that. Clearly his character flaws were so good, severe that, you know, he essentially risked his entire presidency for, you know, having a totally inappropriate relationship with a 24 year old on his staff and who, by the way, has covered herself in glory ever since by being honest and open and strong. Monica Lewinsky, who I know a little bit, and I really have a lot of respect for how she's handled it because she's dealt with it. And you know, one of the things she's told me is he's never apologized, right?

[Joanna Coles]

He's never apologized and he still seems to be in a sort of COVID up mode, doesn't he? I mean, who knows what they're covering up? If there is anything to cover up.

[David Rothkopf]

At this point, it's just to.

[Joanna Coles]

It's the squirrely kind of answers and the squirrelly behavior. So tell me something, David, when you're working close to power like that, how do people who know things like this, how do they interact with each other? I mean, was this something that everybody talked about around Clinton? I think for a lot of people, when you're outside of a sphere of power, you don't understand, understand how teams enable other people.

[David Rothkopf]

Well, there's a bubble mentality. And I, you know, I think, you know, these things happen gradually over time and you add it up and years later you say, well, I knew this, or this should have meant that, or, you know, the penny dropped. You know, was there, was there talk? Yes. But I do remember that at the end of the Clinton presidency, and I don't know why we're litigating the very successful Clinton presidency when we have the worst president in our history destroying our country right now. But at the very end, the level of disappointment among his senior staff, among his cabinet secretaries, with what had happened and how he had handled it was just over the top because they felt that so much had been achieved and they were so angry. And these are the most prominent members of his cabinet were so angry that he was willing to put it all at risk in order for this kind of level of low level of gratification. And I think one of the things you realize, particularly when you're dealing with people who want to be president of the United States, is that you have to be a little crazy to want to be president of the United States. It's kind of you have to have this pathological need for power. So there's something broken. If you were desperate enough to spend years and years seeking more power than any individual should have and going through what it involves and making the compromises that it involves. And, and so every president is a little bit bent. You know, every president is a little broken. And that, you know, does that mean, you know, Barack Obama wasn't a good man trying to do good things? No, he was a good man trying to do good things. So was Bill Clinton. I can't say that about Donald Trump. But certainly George W. Bush tried hard to do good things. And, you know, if you talk about immigration, George W. Bush proposed more immigration reform, better immigration reform than any president of the past 35 years. George W. Bush introduced PEPFAR. So he did the worst foreign policy disaster in our history, and he did some good things. There is some good in them, but they're a mixed bag. And you always have to ask yourself with somebody who wants to be president or they want to be a billionaire, you know.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, and. And also I was going to say how. How they select the teams around them.

[David Rothkopf]

Well, that's right. And, you know, a good president selects a team around them to make them a better president. And Donald Trump has reversed that, and he has, in this term of office, selected a team around him to provide the least possible possible resistance. You know, he's not a team of rivals. It's a team of sycophants. And, you know, I wrote a book based on his first term in office called American Resistance, in which I interviewed a lot of people in his cabinet, and they said, what we fear is if he gets reelected again, he will use the experiences of his first term and, and weed out the sources of resistance that he resented. He will not have cabinet secretaries with independent points of view. He will get rid of inspector generals. He will not go through the Senate confirmation process, and he will get as many acting people in top jobs as he can so he doesn't have to, you know, worry so much about their backgrounds and can really worry about whether they are loyal. He will weed out loyalists who are career civil servants, and he will do all of these things at scale. And every warning that I got in that book, and these were from multiple people in his cabinet or his sub cabinet, every one of them has come true, and to a greater degree than many of them had warned, because Trump doesn't want advice and consent. He just wants consent.

[Joanna Coles]

And I would add, he just wants power.

[David Rothkopf]

That's all he wants. He wants. And, you know, it's not even that. You know, some people want power because they want the power to do good. I think Trump just wants to feel powerful.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. I mean, one of the things he said to Michael Wolff when Michael Wolff was interviewing him first time round, and he said, why do you want to be president? He said, I want to be the most famous man in the world. And it's hard not to think that that still drives him. And, David, we're having a quick break for some ads.

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[Joanna Coles]

And David Rothkopf and I are back discussing, well, the crazy start to 2026. So let me ask you a final question, David. Symptoms of autocracy often involve suppression of the press. Certainly in, you know, Russia, Eastern Europe, China. The press isn't as free as it is here. Yes, Donald Trump has restricted access to to the White House press room. But in a sense they've just let their sycophantic press people in. And yet he sits down with an interview, a two hour interview with four reporters from the New York Times. What do you make of that?

[David Rothkopf]

First of All I think we need to be honest with ourselves. No president has done more to restrict free access to information about the White House than Trump. Whether it's throwing people out who are credible journalists or bringing people in who are not credible journalists in terms of the White House, whether it's pumping out lies, whether it's controlling the social media accounts of cabinet departments through the White House, or whether it's going to his supporters and saying buy this big media outlet, buy this other big media outlet. This massive MAGA takeover of mainstream media. This is the, this has been the worst year in terms of freedom of the press that the United States has ever seen.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, that's all true. But then inadvertently, because he wants to be on television so much and he's having endless press conference and he's always available, we, perhaps this is inadvertent on his behalf, however, see him falling asleep, see him getting words confused, see him getting people confused, see him reading notes that have been put under his nose which are clearly private. We inadvertently perhaps see him fully exposed.

[David Rothkopf]

I think that's right. I think that they will, you know, frankly, he thinks still that, you know, if he's on camera he can solve any problem. I think increasingly he will realize he creates new problems and we'll see less and less of him. But you know, there's also this other thing which is he has proven that he will go after people hard if they give him a hard time. And this has created, you know, kind of a both sidesing impulse which we've seen at the New York Times, right. We've seen in the headlines at the New York Times. And I think he thought, well, I'm going to sit here and I'm going to record the whole thing and they're going to be here. And you know, they did a two hour interview, they didn't ask about the Epstein files.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. And interestingly, there was a piece by David Brooks, the columnist David Brooks over the weekend that basically said it's all just sort of liberals fault, everything is liberal's fault. That's why we're in this mess.

[David Rothkopf]

Well, you know, shoot me. Or better yet, just stop your don't read another piece by David Brooks. There is no value. You know, there is no value. This kind of regular apologia. The thing that drives me to berserk about the David Brooks kind of pieces is he's like, well, I'm not part of all that. But of course David Brooks and the other conservative columnists made Trump possible. They set all of this up and now they're like, holy crap. I didn't have. Brooks is like off in. Well, I found God and all this other kind of stuff. But this set of columnists need to be tuned out. Brooks, Russ Doudett, some of these other characters at the Times. I thought some of the Times interview was useful, and I thought some of it was too bland. I don't think they were hard enough on a lot of these issues of authoritarianism, which are really crucial because we are moving into a period where democracy is really at stake. And I, you know, I, you know, I don't see how you get by, you know, dealing with things like the Epstein thing. I don't know whether they had ground rules or not, but, you know, was it better that they did it than not? Yes. And did he reveal himself to be, you know, flawed in manifold ways, doing it? Yes, he did. And they teased that out.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, and I thought, I thought Katie Rogers had the best question in terms of what would stop you. And he said, well, you know, the only thing that would stop me is my own morality.

[David Rothkopf]

Well, right.

[Joanna Coles]

And I mean, amazing everybody, right. And I'm amazing. They didn't come back to him and say, well, you were best friends with Jeffrey Epstein.

[David Rothkopf]

Yeah, well, right. Or, you know, that, you know, did. Or don't come back to him and say, you know, that is precisely the frame of mind of every totalitarian leader in history. And what you're saying is that you're above the law and the only thing that is stopping you is your own conscience. And famously, you don't have a conscience. You're only being stopped by your own morality. And famously, you're the most immoral public figure in America. But they don't test it. One of the things about journalists that drives me crazy days is they don't follow up these questions in the way that they should. And I don't think they did in that case. Even though from the point of view of you and me and everybody who's listening to this, when you hear the President say, the only constraint on my behavior is my own morality, every red light should be flashing. We have entered totalitarianism. We have entered authoritarianism. The man who said he'd be a dictator on day one lived up to the promise, and he just thinks that he can do whatever he wants, wherever he wants, however he wants. And that's what we're up against between now and whenever somebody gets some of that power away from him, hopefully in November.

[Joanna Coles]

David Rothkopf. That is a very rousing start to the week. I am Taking to the streets. There I am. Taking to the streets. It's always fantastic to see you. I can see that you are very fired up. And as you say, the first 10 days of 2026 have been like a compressed version of the entire of 2025. David, promise me that you will come back and fire us up again soon.

[David Rothkopf]

You're the boss. You invite me. I'll be here.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay. And I wasn't expecting the diversion into the Clinton era, but it's always incredibly helpful to hear from people who've worked close to power how the enablers work. I'm always fascinated by it.

[David Rothkopf]

Enabling is sort of, you know, every court you've ever read about in history, everybody in the court does some currying favor, because by being in the court, they are elevated. It's in their interests to play to the bubble thinking of that court.

[Joanna Coles]

It's fascinating. Well, the bubble thinking at the Daily Beast, David, has you as a very popular podcast guest. So thank you very much for coming on, and we will talk to you urgently next week or the week after.

[David Rothkopf]

Okay. I will only show up for a bag of Doritos.

[Joanna Coles]

Bag of Doritos on the way.

[David Rothkopf]

All right. Thank you.

[Joanna Coles]

All right, So there you have it. David Rothkopf is on full volume. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe to it. Feel free to subscribe to the Daily Beast, too, so we can bring you, nanosecond by nanosecond, updates of what's going on. It's Sunday night. It must be Jerome Powell taking to social media to tell you what's going on. It's crazy out there, as we all know. Don't forget to leave us a comment. Comment on YouTube. We love hearing your point of view, and it really does inform the conversations that we have here at the Beast. So if you're a regular commentator or you're just an occasional commentator, it's absolutely fine. But don't think that we don't read them, because we do. And we have a message from Kevin Fallon.

[Kevin Fallon]

Joanna, hi. I have to tell you about something that we're obsessed with. I'm Kevin Fallon, and I met with and we are hosting Obsessed, the podcast about all the TV shows, movies, and entertainment newsmakers that we're all obsessed with. So make sure you subscribe to us on YouTube at the YouTube channel. Make sure you follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

[David Rothkopf]

Just search for Obsessed, the podcast, and.

[Kevin Fallon]

We will see you there.

[Joanna Coles]

Big thanks to our special bebeast tier of members. Here they are. Yvette Dream Johnson. Me thinks Batsy o' Farrell Mills and Lynns Shelby Max Cubitt I've been mispronouncing that. Sorry about that. Max David Sherry Thomas Moore, Maria Voltain D I think it's Cujer Watts, but D Feel free to tell us how to pronounce your name. Signia Lunge John H. Overocker Deb K. Ostrander Sandra Clark Travels With Carl Andrew Beaver Capinator Harry Clark Dawn McCarthy Daniel dog lover M. Griner Die Stone Fulvia Orlando Herbie Andrew Mellor Tattnall Val Love Francisco that's an odd name. Will Hutchison, Andrea Hodel Bocock D.C. sharon Shipley, Connie Rutherford, Karen White and last but never least, Heidi Riley. And to our production team, Devon Rogerino, Ryan Murray and Heather Passaro.

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[David Rothkopf]

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[TED Health Podcast Host (Dr. Shoshana Ungerleiter)]

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[David Rothkopf]

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily Beast [e-mail] podcasts if you enjoyed this.

[Joanna Coles]

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