This Proves Trump Knows He's In Big Trouble: Wolff

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Daily Beast Podcast – "This Proves Trump Knows He’s In Big Trouble: Wolff"

Host: Joanna Coles
Guest/Co-Host: Michael Wolff
Date: January 14, 2026
Episode Focus: Dissecting the current state of Donald Trump’s presidency, with particular emphasis on his political anxieties, foreign policy maneuvers, internal circle turmoil, and the shifting landscape ahead of the 2026 midterms.

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode offers a penetrating, sometimes sardonic look inside Donald Trump’s White House as the 2026 midterm elections approach. Joanna Coles and Michael Wolff discuss new reports, foreign and domestic maneuverings (notably toward Greenland and Venezuela), the psychology and machinations of Trump’s inner circle, and the visible cracks in his administration’s armor. The mood is both analytical and wry, illuminating the seriousness of current events with the hosts’ trademark banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Limericks & Audience Engagement

• The hosts begin by spotlighting the podcast’s “limerick laureate,” Garfried, whose political limericks spark engagement and camaraderie among listeners (03:00).
• A limerick, sharply referencing Trump, shamelessness, and political nonsense, is shared, reconfirming the community’s creative spirit.

2. Melania Trump’s Movie, and How to (Not) Support Her

• The hosts joke about tactics for seeing Melania’s movie without financially supporting her (04:00), suggesting buying a ticket for another film and sneaking in.
• Discussion about the economics of Melania's movie deal (04:40), e.g., "$40 million upfront, 70% of the back end, $10 million per corporate sponsor".

3. Pop Culture Detour

• Joanna and Michael briefly discuss recent movies and TV series, including disappointment with "Landman" Season 2 and its representation of women, with Billy Bob Thornton receiving praise (07:10–08:20).

4. Barron Trump Rumors, NYU, and Elocution Lessons

• Rumors discussed about Barron Trump’s whereabouts, educational trajectory (NYU’s DC campus?), and height ("6 foot 12", i.e., exceedingly tall) (09:30–13:50).
• Tongue-in-cheek speculation about why Barron is reportedly taking elocution lessons (11:00), suggesting it’s due to his mother’s accent and public silence.
• Quote (Joanna Coles, 12:40): “Can you tell me what Barron's voice sounds like? He is the silent Baron.”
• The hosts muse over the rarity of elocution lessons in America versus the UK (10:01), poke fun at their own speech, and riff on American “representative voices”.

5. Pam Bondi’s Shrinking Influence & Trump’s Inner Circle Dysfunction

• Pam Bondi, serving as Attorney General, is reportedly under intense pressure and may be “close to being fired” (20:16).
• The legal machinery is being bent to Trump’s will in “a way no other President has done,” but it is never, ever Trump’s fault when things go wrong—he always looks for others to blame (22:39–24:48).
  • Quote (Wolff at 22:39): "Nothing is ever his fault... That is one of the elemental things to understand about Donald Trump and about Donald Trump's politics."
• The Wall Street Journal reports Bondi is on thin ice, and Joanna explains Trump’s pattern: he calls confidantes to subtly (or not) undermine subordinates (25:08).
  • Quote (Coles at 25:08): "He calls up people and he says, so what do you think of Pam? And that is a sign of bad things to come."
• Discussion of weight loss drugs among public figures and Trump’s fixation on the weight of those around him—even while overweight himself (15:14–19:29).

6. Foreign Policy: Venezuela, Greenland, and Attention-Seeking Tactics

• Trump’s recent foreign policy pivots are analyzed as efforts not at substantive change, but at attention capture ("it plays" is his chief metric).
• The extraction of Nicolás Maduro in Venezuela is described as a feat designed for headlines rather than foreign policy legacy (38:19).
  • Trump wants “a standout thing for 2026," seeking media dominance above all else (39:41).
• Host skepticism about the seriousness behind Trump's Greenland maneuver; it’s likely performative, though European leaders are rattled (43:13–44:29).
• The true rationale behind the U.S. posture toward Venezuela is openly discussed as “wanting it for the oil,” but the oil is so unattractive that even Exxon isn’t interested (45:20–46:30).

7. Midterms Anxiety: Trump Knows He’s in Trouble

• Michael and Joanna trace the roots of Trump’s anxiety about the upcoming 2026 midterm elections (31:00–33:03, 39:45). Facing potential losses, Trump trots out distraction and “big stick” strategies.
  • He repeats ominous refrains like “if we lose, we could be finished, finished, finished,” signaling mounting desperation (31:20).
  • Quote (Wolff at 40:01): "We have a big stick. Nobody knows how we're going to use it. We're freaking everybody out. I'm unpredictable."
• Joanna notes, "he has a sense of it going wrong, that they could lose the House—and then even acknowledging the possibility that they could lose the Senate, which he says, 'then I'm back in court. Won't be pretty.'” (36:23)

8. Inside the White House: Chaos, Paranoia, and Performative Power

• Descriptions of Trump’s erratic behavior and preference for performative dominance – “he has to win, someone has to seem to lose” (48:33).
• Internal debate over how to “give Trump a win” in diplomatic negotiations, such as with Denmark over Greenland (49:12–50:48).
  • Bottom line: Trump wants to say “we own it” regardless of the geopolitical reality.

9. Fiascos & Investigations: Pam Bondi, Jerome Powell, and Mark Kelly

• Pam Bondi is blamed by Trump for failure to quash the Epstein files and other legal quagmires (35:43–36:09).
• Jerome Powell, Federal Reserve Chair, announces DoJ charges on Instagram in a bizarre episode symbolizing Trump’s resentment against anyone not yielding to his demands (54:01–55:06).
  • Quote (Coles, quoting Trump at 54:31): “I have all the power. I can fuck over anybody who’s being an asshole to me.”
• Mark Kelly sues Pete Hegseth for threats, referencing a “fuckover” pattern in Trumpworld “These are paper tigers ... there are tools to oppose these guys.” (57:25–58:46)

10. Health Care and Congressional Pushback

• For the first time in a while, Congressional Republicans show subtle resistance, e.g., by voting to extend health care subsidies against Trump’s public wishes (58:48).
• Discussion that health care costs “will be the single biggest issue at the midterms” and record numbers of Congresspeople are stepping down (59:23).

11. Listener Questions & Melania Lawsuit

• Audience-submitted questions about Melania Trump’s voting registration, her travel and expenses, and the nature of her marriage are discussed, with some reserved (60:42–62:26).

12. Closing Moments & Week Ahead

• Summing up the upcoming week’s major events: Denmark-Greenland meetings, the Nobel Peace Prize visit, and ongoing speculation about Trump’s “imperial” phase (62:43–63:52).
• Michael notes Joanna’s White House sources as “very interesting” and plugs extra content for subscribers (64:29).

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Michael Wolff (22:39): “Nothing is ever his fault... That is one of the elemental things to understand about Donald Trump and about Donald Trump's politics.”
• Joanna Coles (25:08): “He calls up people and he says, so what do you think of Pam? And that is a sign of bad things to come.”
• Wolff (40:01): “We have a big stick. Nobody knows how we're going to use it. We're freaking everybody out. I'm unpredictable.”
• Coles, quoting Trump, (54:31): “I have all the power. I can fuck over anybody who's being an asshole to me. Which I think it's. This says it all moment.”
• Coles (48:33): “Donald Trump makes things difficult for almost everybody who crosses his path because he has to win. Someone has to seem to lose... I win, you lose. Even though nothing changes whatsoever.”
• Coles (36:23): “Yeah, he has a sense that this is going wrong, that they could lose the House, and then even acknowledging the possibility that they could lose the Senate, which he says, then I'm back in court. Won't be pretty interesting.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:00 – Garfried’s limericks and audience interaction
• 04:00–05:35 – Melania’s movie: controversy and workarounds
• 07:10–08:20 – TV/film banter; “Landman” and Billy Bob Thornton
• 09:30–13:50 – Barron Trump rumors, NYU, elocution, and the Trump-Barron dynamic
• 15:14–19:29 – Weight loss drugs and Trump’s obsession with subordinates’ appearances
• 20:16–24:48 – Pam Bondi’s place in Trumpworld; the pattern of blame
• 31:00–33:03 – Trump’s rising anxiety about midterms: “we could be finished, finished, finished”
• 35:43–36:09 – Epstein files and Bondi’s failures
• 39:41–40:28 – “It has to play!” – How Trump sees foreign policy and media
• 45:20–46:30 – U.S. oil companies reject Venezuela oil; realpolitik unmasked
• 48:33–48:57 – “He has to win, someone has to lose” – Trump’s essential mindset
• 54:01–55:06 – Jerome Powell story and Trump’s retributive style
• 57:25–58:46 – Mark Kelly vs. Pete Hegseth and the evolving anti-Trump strategy
• 60:42–62:26 – Listener’s Melania questions: legal and personal angles
• 62:43–63:52 – Preview of the week ahead: Denmark, Greenland, Nobel laureate, and more

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

The conversation’s tone remains incisive, witty, and at times acerbic—trademarks of both hosts. Beneath the sardonic humor, there is clear alarm about the erosion of American norms, the increasing performativity of foreign policy, and the volatility simmering beneath the administration’s surface.

The episode demonstrates, often via inside scoops and offhand anecdotes, that Trump himself is nervous as the midterms approach—his increasingly erratic strategies (from sensational foreign operations to blaming his most loyal deputies) serve as proof that “Trump knows he’s in big trouble.”

Those seeking a rapid-fire, insightful rundown of the inner workings of Trump’s administration—and the atmosphere in Washington as midterms approach—will find this episode both enlightening and entertaining.

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Transcript

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[Joanna]

So I went back to the people I speak to the White House to revisit this and they kind of traced the development of this idea. So the midterm elections are November 3, 20, 20, 26. And he was starting to say if we lose, we could be finished, finished, finished. He would go on to cite the problems that they were having, which are our jobs. Their jobs aren't growing. And in fact, I mean, there was just a piece that came, a report that came out that jobs are now, you know, growing. This is the slowest job growth period in basically 20 years.

[Michael Wolff]

Michael.

[Joanna]

Joanna.

[Michael Wolff]

Okay, today we are going to start with a shout out to a correspondent that we have called Garfried. Garfried, if you are watching or listening, I want to thank you because what other people may not realize is that with every episode, Garfried writes us a limerick. I'm going to read you one of the limericks.

[Joanna]

We don't know Garfield Garfried's first name. We don't know If Garfried is a.

[Michael Wolff]

Man or a woman, we have no idea.

[Joanna]

We'd like to know.

[Michael Wolff]

And I am.

[Joanna]

Although we don't have to know.

[Michael Wolff]

No, we don't have to know. In fact, it might be better just not to know. And Garfield might not have a chosen gender. Garfried may just be in the free. But of course, there once was a realm in a spin where lies were no longer a sin. Woolf with coals. Explain how shameless refrain from makes nonsense the way you can win thoughts?

[Joanna]

Brilliant.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, what I love is that everybody that all limericks.

[Joanna]

That's the thing about a limerick.

[Michael Wolff]

All limericks are brilliant. Okay. And then there was another one. There once was a prez in late stage who'd lose every thought on the page while Miller and Vance with Rubio's Lance drove extremes as the midterms engaged. Anyway, Garf Reed, I'm deeming you the podcast's limerick laureate. And what I love is that.

[Joanna]

Well, thank you. I mean, it really is. These are.

[Michael Wolff]

These are good. These are good. They're engaging. And then other people comment on them and say, good, like the one you did last week. Better. So, Garfried, thank you. You've got a big audience and also big audience engagement around Melania. How do we. Melania's movie.

[Joanna]

You could come on the podcast, Garfried, and you could do live limericks.

[Michael Wolff]

Live limericks. Okay. That's like one of those people that, you know, does that kind of live painting. So a lot of pushback on the idea that we should go and see the movie because we would be giving money to Melania. So various people have suggested 70% of the back end. 70% of the back. And she's already got a upfront. 40 million.

[Joanna]

40 million up front. 70% of the back end. 10 million for each of the corporate sponsorships she sells.

[Michael Wolff]

OK. And we need to know what the corporate sponsorships are because we should name and shame, probably.

[Joanna]

Well, I suppose there'll be a. I mean, I think all you get will.

[Michael Wolff]

Be a roll of credit.

[Joanna]

That's all you get. You get. Thanks to.

[Michael Wolff]

Thank you for all these brands sponsoring me. But several people have written in saying, actually what you should do is go to the movie theater, buy a ticket for another film, and then when you're in the movie theater, divert to Melania so that she doesn't get the data that you've gone and they don't collect the ticket money because you paid for something else.

[Joanna]

Do you go to the movies?

[Michael Wolff]

Are you asking me as a. Yeah, it's just I love going to the movies. There are few movies I really want to see.

[Joanna]

No, do you go to the movies in a theater? When was the last time you went to a theater?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I saw Hamnet in a theater. I live very near the Angelica. Or the Angelica, I don't know how you pronounce it.

[Joanna]

Angelica.

[Michael Wolff]

Angelica. Downtown.

[Joanna]

Yes, I've lived near there, too. It's a really super depressing theater.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, exactly.

[Joanna]

The people in it look depressing. The movies are depressing.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, the movies are foreign. The movies are foreign, Yeah. I agree that the screen I have at home is almost as big as the screen in the. And I have a pretty modest television at home, as my sons are always pointing out when they visit. They can't watch sports on there because it's 44 inches as opposed to 75 or whatever the rest of you have. But I do go to occasionally. Not very often. I saw a terrible movie there called after the Hunt with Julia Roberts, which was very depressing.

[Joanna]

Oh, well, that's what everyone's talking about, so I can skip that.

[Michael Wolff]

What are you talking about?

[Joanna]

I can skip seeing after the Hunt.

[Michael Wolff]

Nobody's talking about it.

[Joanna]

Everyone. Isn't it? That's a big Oscar movie.

[Michael Wolff]

Is it?

[Joanna]

Yeah.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I find that incredible. I found it super, super annoying. Anyway, I love Julia Roberts in it and I liked Julia Roberts. I like Andrew Garfield. Yeah, I could go wrong.

[Joanna]

That's the. There's the other one, which is after the Something. I don't know. This is what we know about movies. Nobody knows anything about movies.

[Michael Wolff]

Nobody. But I can talk to you. You know what's gone right off, which I'm really disappointed by. Landman, season two. Taylor Sheridan. Listen up. The women in season two of Landman are. I'm almost embarrassed to watch the show now. I devoured season one, thought it was brilliant. The women in season two are so bad. They're so cliched. It's embarrassing. It's like they're all strange MAGA women. It's really depressing. I don't know what happened to you. Taylor Sheridan. I love the first season of Landman. I could watch Billy Bob forever. This is disappointing.

[Joanna]

Well, I'm in the second season of. I'm probably in Landman. I'm caught up on Landman.

[Michael Wolff]

Oh, you're in it. So you're watching it too?

[Joanna]

Yes.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, don't you agree with me? You probably like the women because they're young and blonde.

[Joanna]

No, actually, Billy Bob is so good that it covers for everything else. And so whenever Anything else is whatever. I mean, there's several plot lines there. You just kind of do social media when those are on. And then he comes on again and it's riveting.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, I agree. I agree. He's so watchable. Anyway, Garfried, thank you for your limericks.

[Joanna]

I mean, the sun and that has some relationship with the.

[Michael Wolff]

No, no, no. That's not working either. That's not working either. And then the sun miraculously hits oil, but then it all goes wrong. Whatever.

[Joanna]

Terrible.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. And Demi Moore is wasted because she's such a good actress and she's not doing her best work there. And, Michael, just reminding people, where are we going to be on January 21st?

[Joanna]

We are going to be at the 92nd Street Y on 92nd street and Lexington Avenue. It's at 8pm it turns out it's.

[Michael Wolff]

Like a proper theatrical production.

[Joanna]

Yeah.

[Michael Wolff]

No, eat first, eat first. I'm gonna eat first.

[Joanna]

Yeah. No, Jeez.

[Michael Wolff]

Only protein.

[Joanna]

You just invited me for dinner afterwards. That's too late. Www92ny.org and Joanna and I will be live on stage. We'd love to see you there and take questions. And I think we're on stage for 90 minutes. TRUMP Epstein.

[Michael Wolff]

And if you can't come to New York or you are one of our many viewers in Australia or England, you can join virtually. They're selling virtual tickets now, which is great. So we're excited to be joined by as big an audience as we possibly can be. I did want to talk briefly about a fascinating report in the Daily Mail that says Baron, the 6 foot 12 son of the President, 7 foot 9 son of the president, is having elocution lessons.

[Joanna]

A, what are elocution lessons? B, who has them? I haven't heard of anyone having them since.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, lots of people have elocution lessons in England.

[Joanna]

Lots of people.

[Michael Wolff]

Lots of people in England have them. It's a big English thing to try and help you speak. Received prison pronunciation. It used to be less so.

[Joanna]

Now I see. Well, no one in America has elocution lessons. Although now people can say write in and say, no, everyone.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, write in and tell us if you've had an elocution lesson.

[Joanna]

Or you could say, I should have elocution lessons, which I feel might be true.

[Michael Wolff]

No, you don't need elocution lessons because.

[Joanna]

Listening to myself on these things, it's so nasal.

[Michael Wolff]

That is the first time you've admitted you listen to yourself. Well, yeah, I think you go to sleep listening to yourself. Don't you just put the podcast on and drift away.

[Joanna]

No. More and more I become, alas, unavoidable even to myself.

[Michael Wolff]

You're not going to have elocution lessons.

[Joanna]

Well, now I'm going to consider it.

[Michael Wolff]

I wonder who the kind of voice is that is most representative of the American voice. Now, if you're an elocution teacher, who are you reaching up to? Is it Joe Rogan or Michael Wolfe or Michael Wolff or Tony decopal?

[Joanna]

I have no idea what Tony decouple sounds like. Nor would I recognize Tony decouple if I passed him on the street.

[Michael Wolff]

But he would recognize you.

[Joanna]

And does anyone know who Tony decopal is?

[Michael Wolff]

But Baron is having elocution lessons. And I guess it's because his mother has. I have incomprehensible accent. No one understand what I say. And do you remember the video of him when he was little and he danced around going, I love my zoot case. My zoot case. So I think maybe his accent has stayed with him, which is why we never hear him. Can you tell me what Baron's voice sounds like? He is the silent Baron.

[Joanna]

Well, in his defense, what is the guy, 18?

[Michael Wolff]

I think he's 19.

[Joanna]

Even so, this is. This is a lot of pressure on.

[Michael Wolff]

A 19 year old Olivia Rodrigo. There are lots of 19 year olds out there having a great time.

[Joanna]

Well, there are stars.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I'm just saying I can't remember hearing Baron speak. And according to the Daily Mail, he's having elocution lessons. And I think it's because he spent so much time with his mother, who has very strong accent, and possibly his grandfather, Victor Knives, who presumably also has a very strong accent and who looks like a mini version of Donald Trump.

[Joanna]

Can we confirm this?

[Michael Wolff]

No, of course not. It was in the Daily Mail. It was in the Daily Mail. So it's possibly completely untrue. But I did think it was interesting. And I want to talk about so much to discuss this week, but we can go.

[Joanna]

As long as we're feeding off barren rumors. Let's start one.

[Michael Wolff]

Okay, go on.

[Joanna]

Or at least I have a question. Well, it could be. So Barron went to, you know, you know, there was all that drama about where Barron was going to college, and then it turned out that he was going to unexpectedly to nyu. But now they've made this kind of sort of announcement, not exactly announcement that he was going to the NYU campus in Washington.

[Michael Wolff]

Right.

[Joanna]

Suddenly news to everyone that NYU had a campus in Washington.

[Michael Wolff]

Yep.

[Joanna]

But also going into the crypto business. Maybe there is an NYU campus in Washington.

[Michael Wolff]

So if anybody knows, is there an NYU campus in Washington?

[Joanna]

And has anyone seen Barron Trump on this invisible campus?

[Michael Wolff]

Right. The interesting thing about Barron is he is, because he's so tall, like a basketball player, impossible to miss. Anyway, people have missed him, and we don't know where he is.

[Joanna]

In the early days in 2017, when they just got into the White House, and then Steve Bannon had this idea that they should do a photo op with. With the president and his son Barron golfing together. And Bannon said, you know, because all. If your father golfs, you golf. It's just what is for everyone. And so that was proposed to Trump. He said no.

[Michael Wolff]

He said no because he thought Barron would be able to hit the ball further.

[Joanna]

I mean, Bannon's feeling was that. That father and son didn't spend a lot of time together.

[Michael Wolff]

Okay. Which would also explain why he's having elocution lessons. Anyway, another thing I noticed this week.

[Joanna]

You mean because his father speaks so well?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, his father does speak in an American accent. Tucker Carlson, standing at the back of the oil executive meeting, has lost a lot of weight. I think he's on a GLP1.

[Joanna]

Well, curiously, I mean, I've known Tucker for quite a long while, like 25 years, and I've watched him put on all that weight. So it's like an arc here.

[Michael Wolff]

So do you think. I think that GLP1 has become quite obsessive for people. People I know who are on them get very excited about being on them. And obviously, it's transformational. If you lose as much weight as he has lost, and also as much weight as Pam Bondi has lost, I think she's lost £50. I was looking at pictures of her.

[Joanna]

And could that possibly be.

[Michael Wolff]

It's possibly true.

[Joanna]

£50 is a lot of pounds. I mean, that means she was really.

[Michael Wolff]

She's tiny. Pam Bondi is tiny.

[Joanna]

So did she used to be large?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, if you look at her face, her face was really round, and it's now incredibly angular and sharp. She's clearly on them. Or she's so incredibly stressed.

[Joanna]

I mean, 50 pounds. DOJ, you take 50 pounds off your.

[Michael Wolff]

Face, it's all right, 30 pounds. She may have lost 30 pounds, but she's definitely lost weight. And when I checked it out on ChatGPT, the sense was, the summary of it was that they thought. Chatgpt thought she'd lost £50. She's certainly lost a lot of weight.

[Joanna]

Well, I mean, there's a couple of things going on here. I mean, you may lose weight just by Working for Donald Trump, for sure. For sure. And.

[Michael Wolff]

But that hasn't happened to Stephen Cheung.

[Joanna]

Granted.

[Michael Wolff]

There was that fascinating picture. I'm just going back to the interview that the New York Times did where they had five people surrounding him, but apparently only four reporters. So I don't know who the other person was. Maybe it was the photographer. And then on the sofa was Stephen Chang sort of sitting hunched on the.

[Joanna]

Edge of the sofa. So that you were afraid the sofa.

[Michael Wolff]

Was going to tip over. Yeah. And Trump had said to him, you need to be on a fat drug. Right. I remember him saying that totally. Although Trump has said that about himself too.

[Joanna]

And Trump goes on, almost anyone who is overweight in the Trump circleand let's remember that Trump himself is overweight, but anyone. He goes on at great length about their weight. You know, there was off the cuff remarks that were. Somebody recorded and passed to me during one of the fundraisers at John Paulson's house in Palm Beach.

[Michael Wolff]

The $50 million fundraiser.

[Joanna]

Yes, yes. And Trump istrump's off the cuff remarks are of course like 45 minutes worth of off the cuff remarks. But a good part of it is about one of the people who is overweight. Like, we can't say that word anymore. So we say the word chubby now. Now we all say chubby. And then he goes on to talk about so and so. Who is chubby. Very, very chubby. And that has caused him a lot of chubby problems.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, what was he referring to? There was a moment during the endless meeting with the oil executives, which we must debrief on. Cause it was so fascinating, where he singles out Harold Hamm. Harold Ham. And says, you know, you're a great guy. You can just put a straw in the ground and find oil. And then he says, but you have other problems. And I was like, what is he talking about? What other problems? And we never come back to it. I was hoping that that little note that little Marco passed to the President would be about Ham's problems.

[Joanna]

I don't know. But he and Harold Hamm are very close.

[Michael Wolff]

Oh, they are. So what is his problem?

[Joanna]

I don't know. Well, let's.

[Michael Wolff]

It was slightly sinister the way he said it. Like, I know you have a problem and I need you to understand.

[Joanna]

Yes, it's often when he does that a reference to women problems.

[Michael Wolff]

Interesting.

[Joanna]

Or wife. Wives. Now he calls it wives problem. He's got a wives problem.

[Michael Wolff]

He's got a wife. What he's got.

[Joanna]

I don't know if he does. I don't know if Harold Ham does or not.

[Michael Wolff]

We have no idea.

[Joanna]

Harold, we are sure he's very, very attentive to that. He's very attentive to men and their wives. And I believe that Harold Ham has a younger wife, although, as one of the Trump people said said to me, Trump is always pointing out when a man has a younger wife, but many of these men now are so old that their younger wives actually are now quite old, of perfectly respectable age.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, hasn't he pointed out that you have a younger wife? And he's also said your wife is hot, which she is, yes. She's also very nice and very smart, I would like to add. But Pam Bondi I'm concerned for because she's lost a ton of weight.

[Joanna]

Well, let's go to the specific thing. Pan Bondi is now under the gun. And the Wall Street Journal just had a piece basically saying that she's very close to being fired.

[Michael Wolff]

Right. She's got one leg out the door, by the way.

[Joanna]

And it's an interesting thing. I mean, Pam Bondi is the attorney general, but Trump has this relationship with almost anybody who is his lawyer. And he regards Pam Bondi not as the government's lawyer or the nation's lawyer, but but as his lawyer. And in those relations, they always come to tears because he expects lawyers as though this is what a lawyer, as though a lawyer is a magician to solve all his problems and get him all the things that he wants. This is going back to Roy Cohen, his lawyer, who at least in his own mind, he built up into a magician. Roy can do anything, solve any problem, vanquish any enemy. So in the case of Pam Bondi and all his other lawyers, when they don't do that, then he gets incredibly frustrated and blames it on them. Now, this is interesting because in this Justice Department, the Pam Bondi Justice Department has absolutely he has brought to heel like no other president in modern history has done. So she has really gone out of her way to give him everything that he wants, things that she should not have and things that the justice system writ large is not going to accommodate. But she's there trying to give him these things, giving him these things, and yet it's not enough.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, it's also not entirely working because the efforts, excuse me, the efforts to indict James Comey went wrong. The efforts to indict Tish James went wrong. Both thrown out because of the misappointment of your friend Lindsay Halligan.

[Joanna]

Well, that's what I'm saying here that the justice system in general is, thank goodness, larger than just the Justice Department. But even within that context, she's willing to do anything with that.

[Michael Wolff]

No, it's entirely his fault that it hasn't worked out, and it must be very frustrating and stressful.

[Joanna]

Except. And it's a very important character note, nothing is ever his fault. Now, that is almost. That is one of the elemental things to understand about Donald Trump and about Donald Trump's politics. It is never his fault. He is not. He is not psychologically or temperamentally able to admit fall. And this is what everybody around him says. It's kind of stable stakes in working for Donald Trump.

[Michael Wolff]

Do you mean table stakes or do you mean stable stakes?

[Joanna]

I mean table stakes.

[Michael Wolff]

Okay, I think you meant Trump stakes. Yes. All right. Table stakes, which have never quite. Table stakes are like, super basic. Right. You have to have this to go forward. Yes.

[Joanna]

I think it's gambling, which. I don't know what that is either, but. Yes, but it's actually, curiously, an expression that I've picked up from Trump people.

[Michael Wolff]

Oh, interesting.

[Joanna]

But at any rate, this is. You go into this understanding that he can never be at fault. There always has to be something else, someone else to blame, some other rationale why something bad has happened and you're in this thing. Everything actually is his fault because nothing happens. Everything that happens happens because he wants it to happen. Everything is at his directive. Everything is trying to intuit what he wants. So he is at fault for everything. But he can never be. There's not. There can't be even the slightest suggestion that he is at fault.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, must be very frustrating to be Pam Bondi trying to squeeze the Justice Department to your will, your master's will, and not being able to deliver exactly what he wants, but at the same time, you know, half destroying the Justice Department. And of course, he had problems with his first ag, Jeff Sessions. Remember little Jeff, who was playing. Who was he played by on SNL? It was one of the better, better caricatures on SNL. I want to say. It was Melissa McCarthy and then William Barr, Bill Barr, who refused to say that the election was stolen.

[Joanna]

Now, this piece in the Journal, which quotes unnamed people as saying that he's beginning to question Pam Bondi. And that's what he does. He calls up people and he says, so what do you think of Pam? And that is a sign of bad things to come.

[Michael Wolff]

So if he calls you and says that and you're J.D. vance or you're Marco Rubio, what do you say? Are you supposed to understand that he's calling because he wants agree with him.

[Joanna]

That it's of course, what do you think of Pam? Then he will tell you. He will give you a microsecond to respond. You won't be able to respond in that second because you're kind of off. What does he want to hear? And then he will tell you, and then you'll agree with that.

[Michael Wolff]

Okay. Okay.

[Joanna]

So, but this also, remember, this is not the first person. Remember, Pete Hegseth was under the gun.

[Michael Wolff]

I think you also predicted that Tulsi Gabbard was going to go, and she's still there, but she's hidden. She just says nothing. She's slid below the radar.

[Joanna]

But the interesting thing is when you get this, when this now breaks, somebody picks this up. It becomes a story that then becomes the person's defense. Pam Bondi now cannot be fired because if she were fired, she would be being fired because the Wall Street Journal said she would be fired. And Donald Trump won't do that because.

[Michael Wolff]

It'S the Wall Street Journal. Right.

[Joanna]

Well, because anyone, he cannot be told what to do.

[Michael Wolff]

Right.

[Joanna]

So Pam Bondi is. Will lose more weight.

[Michael Wolff]

Okay. Pam Bondi will lose more weight. Pam, I think it's time you wait. The other thing you need to do, Pam, and I can say this as a. A woman, is you need to have your roots done. I think she is so busy, she hasn't had time to go to the hair salon. And if you look at her hair, initially we all thought she was blonde. Now it turns out she's actually got very dark hair and it's really growing in. So I know it's sexist of me. I'm just saying it's fine.

[Joanna]

I have no opinion on this. I haven't noticed, actually.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I've noticed. I hope that we can flash up the picture from the Wall Street Journal, which shows that Pam's hair has gone to a sort of ombre. It starts very dark.

[Joanna]

Has she had surgery? Has she been. Has she have a maga look?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, she's always the original maga.

[Joanna]

Have we seen before and after?

[Michael Wolff]

No, but I'm sure we can show before and after. You know what? Cassandra Gray, who started Violet Gray, which is a very upmarket beauty boutique, told me yesterday that the average age for a facelift is 37. 37. First of all, how do people have the money? And secondly, that does feel early. I am waiting for my facelift. I'm waiting. I'm saving up the money anyway, long to have a facelift. I think we can tell. I haven't had a facelift. I long time.

[Joanna]

I don't know somebody. Actually I ran into somebody the other day who watches us and said and commented only that your skin is so smooth.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, that's because we have very good lighting in here. But I long to have a facelift anyway. We're getting distracted.

[Joanna]

Terrible lighting.

[Michael Wolff]

Oh, she should come in and do the lighting.

[Joanna]

I know.

[Michael Wolff]

Victoria, come in and do the lighting. You're very welcome. Okay, so we've got Pam Bondi struggling. I think that's fair. And then of course we've got everything else going on. We've got Trump meeting Machado, the actual winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, which I'm concerned he's going to. If she's brought it with him. If she's brought it with her, I'm concerned he's going to grab it. I'm sure he's going to say it's mine now. But we know it's non transferable. It's like all those invitations you get on paperless post. This invitation is non transferable. The Nobel Peace Prize is non transferable.

[Joanna]

Remember the Time magazine cover that he created by himself? It doesn't really matter.

[Michael Wolff]

It doesn't matter. She's going to bring her prize anyway. They're meeting on Thursday. But I know you've been talking to people in the White House and I want to know what they're telling you.

[Joanna]

You know, I've been talking about, about Venezuela, but then also about Greenland, you know, and I think, and I'm certainly one of the people who has said, as this has been a kind of developing interest of his, that this is, that this is never going to happen.

[Michael Wolff]

And what's the this that we're going to take over ownership, he'll become acting president?

[Joanna]

Well, yes, that we're going to take over Greenland because I mean the first thing, there's no reason for it because we, we already have everything we want. The idea of doing this breaks so many conventions in modern international and political life. Why would you want this? So, but after, obviously Venezuela has happened and then this Greenland thing with Stephen Miller basically saying we're going to go after, after Greenland. So I went back to the people I speak to the White House to revisit this and they kind of traced the development of this idea. And then it begins with in the fall. It probably actually begins with the bombing of the Iranian nuclear facilities in which over the summer.

[Michael Wolff]

So that was. When was that? July.

[Joanna]

Yes, summer. June. July. Yeah.

[Michael Wolff]

It all goes past so quickly. It's all compressed into a.

[Joanna]

But he was delighted by how that worked out. You know, he kept saying, nobody, no lives lost, no equipment lost. He's very focused on this idea of equipment. And it played and he kept going around saying it really played. It played.

[Michael Wolff]

Which is what he loves right when he plays. Well.

[Joanna]

Yeah. And so anyway, this was in these conversations that I've been having. They kind of trace this that there beginning in the fall, he started to see that there was coming up to the one year mark in, in which we would then fight. He would have to fight and the Republicans would have to fight the midterm elections. So the midterm elections just are. Will be our November 3, 2026. And he was starting to get, you know, starting to feel it and starting to say that. He would say if we lose, we could be finished. Finished, finished. He has this thing, he likes to repeat the same word.

[Michael Wolff]

Epstein, Epstein. Epstein.

[Joanna]

Yeah, exactly. And then he would go on and with some almost self awareness he would go on to cite the problems that they were having, which are our jobs. He seems to have been on top of that their jobs aren't growing. And in fact, I mean there was just a piece that came, a report that came out that jobs are now, you know, growing. This is the slowest job growth period in basically 20 years. And then he said, you know, in the Epstein shit jobs, the Epstein shit. And then the ICE videos as he says, these ICE videos that everybody is crying over.

[Michael Wolff]

Michael, we're going to take a break for some ads.

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[Joanna]

And we are back, Joanna and I inside Trump's head.

[Michael Wolff]

So interesting. So he has a sense of it also. I'm sure another reason he's annoyed with Pam Bondi is the Epstein files. Right. That must be a source of frustration.

[Joanna]

Yes. Yeah. That she has not been able to kill that.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. Well. And in fact, she's prolonged it and she hasn't brought them out properly. And she said they were on her desk. Then she released them. Then there wasn't anything to release. All of it. It's been a total mess. It's been badly handled.

[Joanna]

And then his health, or as he said, the Dems saying, I'm fucking Joe Biden. Senile.

[Michael Wolff]

I'm Joe Biden senior. So he does have a sense that this is going wrong.

[Joanna]

Yeah, he has a sense that this is going wrong, that they could lose the House, and then even acknowledging the possibility that they could lose the Senate, which he says, then I'm back in court. Won't be pretty interesting.

[Michael Wolff]

So what is his plan?

[Joanna]

So then he said, and this started to happen early in the fall when this whole kind of conversation started to go on, and that one year, we'll have one year. So he said, we're gonna have to go for Greenland. Now. When he said this, everybody regarded this As a joke. Just the more of a thing, you know, and then people who are slightly more worried than that kind of quiz. Susie Wiles. And she just kind of rolled her eyes and kind of refused to even entertain the possibility. Greenland. But then, you know, it was always going back to bombing Iran and how well that worked out. And then he started to. Has started to circle back and talk about Pete Hegseth. He's got all that spirit because Pete.

[Michael Wolff]

Hegseth also looked like he was vulnerable after the Washington Post story about him saying, just kill the survivors that had been thrown overboard from the boat strikes.

[Joanna]

Totally. So this is an interesting thing that Hegseth has come back in that Trump has seen this stuff, the boats, all the use of the military as extremely positive.

[Michael Wolff]

It plays, it plays, it plays. And also. So you've got Iran, which he thought played. And then you've also got Venezuela. I mean, a remarkable extraction of Maduro.

[Joanna]

Well, and that's the other thing. So he sort of announced, we need something for 2026, a standout thing for 2026. And it has to be a whole new big deal. He's been going around and saying, and it has to play, it has to play. We need something that has to play. And to understand that that means something that captures all the headlines and all the conversation. So it doesn't really. It's not really about good or bad. It's about. About. Is anyone thinking about anything else? No, you just attention is a zero sum game. Is it on him? And then they did the Venezuela thing. And the Venezuela thing was, as it's described to me inside the White House, is that it really was about getting Maduro. That was it. We'll take Will, take him out, and that's it. And then it was Trump, and we've discussed this before, who suddenly promoted this into an imperial vision that this is. We were taking over the country. And then followed by Stephen Miller, who has now sort of codified this into a.

[Michael Wolff]

Into a sort of policy.

[Joanna]

Yeah. Into a draconian position.

[Michael Wolff]

How fascinating. So Trump, understanding that he was in trouble with the midterms, which are in, what, 11 months now, realized he needed something big that played well, like Iran, and that's why they extracted Maduro.

[Joanna]

Right. And so he said, there's a line that I got from somebody quoting Trump, we have a big stick. Nobody knows how we're going to use it. We're freaking everybody out. I'm unpredictable. I might do it, I might not do it. Nobody knows. And then this person I was talking to said, he's pumped.

[Michael Wolff]

He's pumped. So the Greenland thing must be a real thing. Greenland thing, go in and do it.

[Joanna]

Yes. And there was another way that this has been framed. To me, it's, you know, the old paradigm is superpower against superpower, which. Which from a foreign policy standpoint and the way that plays, it doesn't. It's kind of stasis, nobody really moves. But the Trump paradigm is superpower against people without power. So therefore he necessarily wins Venezuela. What are they going to do? And then it turned out there was a story, a story came out this week that the entire defensive structure of Venezuela was not turned on. I mean, they have not been able to implement it. They didn't have the. They don't have.

[Michael Wolff]

They were worried about their carbon footprint. They probably switched it off.

[Joanna]

So this is. You're looking at a series of foreign adventures which are no lose, no lose, no lose, no risk. I mean, even the Venezuela thing, I mean, the Greenland thing is essentially just to threaten, stamp his foot, make all of these Europeans somehow rush around and offer things. And so, I mean, my guess would be Greenland, he will get what he wants in Greenland, which will not change anything at all about the situation as it is in Greenland.

[Michael Wolff]

So I spoke to someone, I was calling some of my European friends yesterday, and I spoke to someone in Denmark who said that. So they've got the Danish foreign minister, or the minister for Greenland, and the Greenland minister responsible for Greenland, coming to meet Marco Rubio tomorrow. And he said this is the most important meeting for Denmark since World War II. And apparently the two ministers are competing with each other for who shakes Marco Rubio's hand first.

[Joanna]

No, I am sure from their point of view, it's how thisthe problem is solved by bending over and doing everything that Trump wants you to do or wants, wants everything Trump wants you to be seen doing.

[Michael Wolff]

So does the Danish prime minister, who's also up for election this year, does she just give up and say, here you go, because where is the NATO thing? Because he's not going to invade Greenland, Right? There's nothing really to invade.

[Joanna]

No, no, no.

[Michael Wolff]

It's just those nice colored huts.

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[Joanna]

And let's remember, there are two issues in, in Greenland, the defensive posture of Greenland and being able to use Greenland as a strategic. For its strategic place in the Arctic region, in which we have all access to that. I mean, there's already a treaty in place. We can basically do anything. And then there is the Greenland resources, mining, minerals and, you know, I mean, I think it's Evident that the people in Greenland would like anybody to come and make investment.

[Michael Wolff]

You know, who should go from.

[Joanna]

Extract. Extract the Greenland.

[Michael Wolff]

Cooper should go from Landman and extract it. Or what about Harold Hamm who is able to put a straw in the ground and find oil?

[Joanna]

Well, we'll go to the oil guys. We should go to the oil guys because that's another thing. So we've done this Venezuela thing. Why are we invading Venezuela? You know, there would certainly be a rationale that this is. Venezuela is run by terrible people and we have a.

[Michael Wolff]

It's still run by terrible people. Still run by terrible people.

[Joanna]

Yes, that's, that's the point. They've had an election, they elected someone else. Those people were not allowed to assume power. So certainly the rationale, we're taking this guy out and we're putting in the duly elected people. I mean, there are problems with that as a foreign policy rationale, but at least it's a reasonable rationale.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, there's a logic to it.

[Joanna]

So. But we're not doing that. Quite the opposite. We're leaving the same people in. So then the rationale, we're doubling down.

[Michael Wolff]

Which is something you always say he does. We're doubling down on someone who is equally bad, if not worse, totally.

[Joanna]

So then the new rationale, the real politic became we want it for the oil.

[Michael Wolff]

Right. To bring in American oil companies.

[Joanna]

Yes. Now, I mean, this is also a kind of weird inversion. You know, the US has been accused in many of its foreign adventures of doing it for the oil. And then we always say that's not true. And it probably is true, but in this case, Trump is out there saying, we're doing it for the oil. Except that then he's offering the oil to everyone and nobody wants it. So he has these guys, these oils, oil guys, these American oil guys come to the White House this week and they kind of look at him, including the Exxon people who say, who say, well, Venezuela is uninvestable.

[Michael Wolff]

And then he goes, well, we don't want Exxon investing there anyway, like a kind of five year old.

[Joanna]

So we've done it for the oil. The real politics, let's just rip off every pretense here. You know, we're tough guys, we want that oil. And then it turns out no one wants it. No, no, no, no, no, not us.

[Michael Wolff]

It's so strange. So Greenland, you think he's just going to announce that we've taken or annexed Greenland? There's nothing that Denmark can do about it. NATO is not going to Go in and fight for, for Denmark to have the right to own.

[Joanna]

Well, I don't think it will go. I think that Europe and the Danes are going to realize, you know, this.

[Michael Wolff]

Is, this is not real.

[Joanna]

This is not real. This is just Donald Trump. This is play acting. This is performative.

[Michael Wolff]

But it may end up costing the premier in Denmark the election. I mean, she's gone from being very popular to much less popular.

[Joanna]

I'm not up to date on, on Danish politics, but yes, perhaps. I mean, I think it is. Well, I think internally, anybody who capitulates to Donald Trump, that's not such a good look. On the other hand, you know, the other Trump threats, from tariffs to, to military action to taking out the Danish Prime Minister, I don't know if she'll be in the same jail as Maduro. I don't know.

[Michael Wolff]

That's not going to happen to Denmark.

[Joanna]

Well, you know, never say that.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I'm looking at my notes here and something's changed. These are the notes that I wrote down. Something's changed, though. She's had to step up her rhetoric and nobody in Denmark has any appetite for losing Greenland. She's caught between a rock and a hard place. Nightmare having to negotiate this for her. So she may want to lose the election?

[Joanna]

No, no. I mean, yeah, I mean, I think it's. I mean, Donald Trump makes things difficult for almost everybody who crosses his path because, remember, he has to win. Someone has to seem to lose. He has to win. That's all, all that he wants here, this is it. I win, you lose. Even though nothing changes whatsoever.

[Michael Wolff]

So what will Marco Rubio say behind closed doors to the Danish and the Greenland ministers tomorrow when they come for their most important meeting, since I'm sure they haven't even had a meeting at the White house, Denmark, for 25 years.

[Joanna]

I think that he says this is what, this is what we need because Trump and his. The implication is Trump is a crazy man and he has to be pacified. So how do we do this? How do we do this together? And Rubio is going to have some suggestions. I think we can see if we get this to fly. And, and I suspect it is, we will rewrite the defense agreement that we have in place. Nothing much will be changed in this agreement, but we will rewrite it. We will do something similar for mineral rights. And then the issue. And that will not change anything either. Then the issue will just be one of the language. Trump wants to say we own it. And that will be the rub for the Denmark right. And Rubio will be working this out. Can we say the following would right and he will say what this has to look like is Trump has to have the win. You have to give him the win.

[Michael Wolff]

What Trump wants is to be able to put out on Truth Social as he did over the weekend, that he is the acting president not only of Venezuela, but the acting president of Venezuela and Greenland.

[Joanna]

Something like that. Yes, yes.

[Michael Wolff]

And Michael, gratefully we are taking a break to hear from our sponsors.

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[Joanna]

And once more, I can't say we're glad to be back inside Trump's head, but we're fated to be back inside Trump's head.

[Michael Wolff]

Oh yeah, yeah, okay. I loved the Exxon guys actually. I thought it was such a good moment in that crazy meeting and that moment where he was wanders over to the door and stares out and you think, oh, he really is a real estate guy. Because what he wants to do is actually stare out at the progress of the east wing. By the way, do they always play Hail to the Sheaf when there's a meeting like that? I didn't know if that was a regular thing or not?

[Joanna]

No, it's not. Because I've been in meetings with, with Trump and no. And I'm just actually now, I mean.

[Michael Wolff]

It just seems so strange that everybody had to stand up. There was some applause. They were playing Hail to the Sheaf. He was pretending it was all sort of fine. But you could. I just thought it was a strange moment. We haven't even mentioned. And this is Pam Bondi again. Everything is coming back to Pam Bondi. The newly thin, stressed, gaunt looking, needs roots. Done. Pam Bondi. Jerome Powell, who I cannot believe suddenly interrupted my Instagram feed as I was scrolling through, looking at the best dressed for the Golden Globes, saying, I'm being charged by the doj.

[Joanna]

Extraordinary. And this is back, this Trump thing. And there's a quote, quote that I have from a Trump quote. And this was not. This would have come from the first administration. And it says I have all the power. I can fuck over anybody who's being an asshole to me. Which I think it's. This says it all moment.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, but Jerome Powell is not being an asshole to him. Jerome Powell appears to be doing the job that he was put in by Donald Trump.

[Joanna]

But from Trump's point of view, Trump has a singular focus. I want interest rates to be lowered. If interest rates are lowered, that will help me hold the House of Representatives during the midterm elections. I want you to do that. You're the chairman of the Fed. I'm going to make your life miserable. I'm going to fuck you over if you don't give me what I want. I have the power.

[Michael Wolff]

And doubly ironic that he's going after Jerome Powell for this renovation of one of the federal buildings that they got into a kind of scrap about. And Jerome Powell made the mistake of humiliating the president. I think that's what it comes back to. And you're always saying he doesn't like to be humiliated. He didn't like, like the dances that Maduro was doing, poking fun at him. He didn't like Obama poking fun at him at the White House Correspondents Ball. And Jerome Powell wasn't poking fun, but he wasn't letting Donald Trump get away with accusing him.

[Joanna]

I think it's anybody who stands in his way, anyone who seems to oppose him, anybody who he interprets as being an asshole to him, I'm gonna fuck you over. And whether this is, I mean, whatever this is, this investigation and possible indictment is gonna go nowhere.

[Michael Wolff]

Of course it's gonna go nowhere. It's gonna go nowhere.

[Joanna]

It's like the comey thing.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, they'll probably put Lindsey Halligan in to do it.

[Joanna]

I mean, so it is just. This is not an investigation. This is a fuckover. So. And you know, and this is, I mean, this is not. This is not fun for everyone. This is not fun for Powell. This is, I mean, the cause of enormous stress and anxiety and then undermines your reputation. It's just you're being fucked over.

[Michael Wolff]

You're being fucked over. Yeah, well, it was. And of course, the dollar immediately responded by taking a tumble. That felt like a mistake.

[Joanna]

But there's an interesting thing here, an interesting bit of blowback here. And I think first thing, Powell is blowing back on the saying, basically the Fed is going to fight this. But then there's another interesting example that's going on with Mark Kelly. So, you know, Hegseth announced that he was going after Mark Kelly for treason.

[Michael Wolff]

Right. Sedition.

[Joanna]

Yeah, for anyway. For issuing a statement that, that people in the military, if it's an illegal order, they don't have to obey it. And we have had a back and.

[Michael Wolff]

Forth about that and many thousands of comments about that. Thank you for those comments. People love Mark Kelly. They see him as a real American hero. And they do not see Pete Hegseth as that.

[Joanna]

Yeah, no, without question. I mean, Mark Kelly is a hero and is a military guy in the way that Hegseth is. Is a pretend military guy. So at any rate, Hegseth threatened Kelly and Kelly is now suing Hegseth.

[Michael Wolff]

Right. Taking a leaf out of your book.

[Joanna]

So, and it's not dissimilar from what I, you know, I got threatened the fuck over from Melania Trump and before she could act on this, I acted and sued her. And this is a similar kind of thing. And I think people are starting to see this, that you have to, you know, first thing, that these are kind of paper tigers in their way and there are tools to oppose these guys.

[Michael Wolff]

What is that? Is it that line from Network? I'm not going to take it anymore. Just feels like people are coming back at me.

[Joanna]

Well, maybe. I mean, there's. I mean, it's very stressful to do it.

[Michael Wolff]

I get that. But it's clear. It's the end user.

[Joanna]

No, and there are certain. There's movement. You know, there are Congressional Republicans are now starting to. There's something going on in this incredibly quiescent group of people. Suddenly, suddenly there's pushback. And in the House, they've just voted to extend the health care subsidies, which he has Said Trump has said he will veto.

[Michael Wolff]

Why would he veto that? That, to me is going to be the single biggest issue at the midterms. Although goodness knows what could happen between now and then. But if you're sitting there and your healthcare premium has doubled or tripled, how on earth are you going to vote for the party that brought you the big beautiful bill which enriches billionaires and leaves you literally unable to pay your health care insurance? How is that possible? And of course, record numbers of congresspeople on both the Democrat and the Republican side are stepping down because they don't want to deal with this anymore.

[Joanna]

Yeah, no, I mean, it's, it's a government of what? Yeah, they've gotten. I mean, the Obamacare issue has always been an intractable one for the Republicans.

[Michael Wolff]

Oi, Ay, ay, Michael Wolff. What a lot going on. All right, so we do have more questions for the very lawsuit that you just referenced for Melania. Okay, here is a question from Kelly Nevard 7460. Could Wolf ask Melania, did her and Donald have an open relationship or did she know he was having extramarital affairs and has she ever had an affair? Does that become relevant?

[Joanna]

Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure. Let me take that under advisement.

[Michael Wolff]

Okay, we'll take that under advisement. Here's a good question from Norma Jean. Where is Melania registered to vote? Did she vote absent last year when she was in Florida? If so, and her address is nyc, then that would be it.

[Joanna]

Yeah, but that's not. She did vote in Florida.

[Michael Wolff]

She did vote in Florida. Yes.

[Joanna]

But just because you vote in Florida does not mean that, that under the law, that that's where you are. The law would determine that you're actually domiciled.

[Michael Wolff]

Okay, well, here's another good question from Sashit. Here's another good question from Sashita 3900. I would like Michael to ask Melania how she travels between New York City and D.C. is that on Air Force One at taxpayer expense? Does she handle first lady business from New York? Do she and Donald, I think some of these come from Europe. Do she and Donald file separate taxes since her primary residence is in NYC and his is the White House?

[Joanna]

All good questions.

[Michael Wolff]

All good questions. Question for Wolf's Melania case. Will he be subpoenaing Marlon Maples to find out why she told Sandra Coleman to protect her 14 year old daughter who was a model from all Trump's friends, that is the men at the Mar A Lago model party?

[Joanna]

I think we're not allowed. I'm not allowed to say who we're discussing.

[Michael Wolff]

Okay, well, it's a good question as.

[Joanna]

To yet, but yes.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, that's from Victoria o'. Connor. Very good question, Victoria. All right, we've covered quite a lot of ground this morning. Don't look blankly. You can't remember anything you've said. You cannot remember any of it.

[Joanna]

Nothing.

[Michael Wolff]

Big day for Denmark tomorrow with Marco Rubio.

[Joanna]

We continue to cover more and more ground which go on indefinitely.

[Michael Wolff]

All right, well, I'm just up summing the week ahead of us. We've got the Denmark meeting with Marco Rubio tomorrow where the Danish and the Greenlandic ministers are fighting over who should shake his hand first. I think it should be Greenland because it's smaller and it's really about them. And then we've got Machado, the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, coming in to meet Trump at the White House on Thursday. And then when is the president of Columbia coming? He was supposed to be coming this week, too. He's packing them in. These are big meetings.

[Joanna]

Didn't he come?

[Michael Wolff]

No, I think they had a phone call when the New York Times was there, which we weren't allowed to hear, but I think he seemed delighted that he'd been invited to Washington instead of extracted ignominiously like our friend Maduro.

[Joanna]

Yeah. And I think we just have to see this. In this. We're in this new imperial, imperial phase, which is. Remember, this used to be the White House. No more foreign wars White House.

[Michael Wolff]

Right.

[Joanna]

We were going to distract ourselves from all of these conflicts, but now we're in the imperial. Trump is an appealing. It's very appealing to him. He feels that it plays. And especially an imperial Trump that doesn't put anything at risk. So it's a. I mean, totally. I mean, I think from a foreign policy point of view, it's entirely novel. Way to see the world.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. Well, I thought your conversations with people in the White House very interesting. And for those who want to. Well, you can either listen to this podcast again or you can read it on Michael Subsnack.

[Joanna]

How Tales of our Time.

[Michael Wolff]

Tales of our time, indeed. If you have been. Thank you for joining us. Please leave your comments. We really, really love them. I love having a sense of our audience. It's so much fun. Garfried.

[Joanna]

And if anyone else. Limericks. Limericks, Limericks.

[Michael Wolff]

Poems. Iambic pentameter. I can read them out. Okay. We grew up speaking in iambic pentameter, and we want your ideas for how do we handle the Melania documentary and the theatrical rollout. Anyway, we appreciate your suggestions. Don't forget to sign up for the Daily Beast bebeast tier membership, which gives you extra content and dinner with Michael every Friday. Don't forget beebeast. And Michael is now going to read out all our bebeasteer members and it's growing their names. Growing Listening List.

[Joanna]

I'm going to pronounce their names the way way I want to pronounce their names.

[Michael Wolff]

All right. And you can write in and tell us if he got it right or not.

[Joanna]

Are we ready?

[Michael Wolff]

We are ready for the roll of the names. The roll call.

[Joanna]

Yvette Johnson Methinks Betsy o' Farrell Mills and Lynns Chelly Belly. Well, Chell B, it would be Shelby.

[Michael Wolff]

Max not that easy to read out all the names.

[Joanna]

Max Qwibet Cubitt Max Qbitt Max Qbitt.

[Michael Wolff]

Max wrote in to say we got his name wrong.

[Joanna]

David Shari Thomas Moore, Maria Voltain D. Kujer Watts Sien Lund Sien Lund. Okay, John H. Overrocker Deb K. Ostrander Sondra Clark Travels with Carl Andrew Beaver Capinator Harry Clark, Dawn McCarthy Daniel dog lover M. Griner D. Stone Fulvia Orlando Herbie Andrew Melore Melore Melore.

[Michael Wolff]

Andrew Mellor from the Ribble Valley Tattnall, Val Love.

[Joanna]

Francesco, Will Hutchinson, Andrea Hodel, Bocock D.C. sharon Shipley, Connie Rutherford, Karen White and Heidi Reilly. Thank you all.

[Michael Wolff]

Very well read and thank you to our production team, Devon Rogerino, Ryan Murray, Rachel Passer and Heather Passaro.

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[Michael Wolff]

Episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed.

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[Michael Wolff]

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