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- [00:00]
Sports Commentator
And we're live on Matchday as Doug reaches for a Buffalo wing. He's got it. Oh, and he's gone for a can of Pepsi too. What a finish. There's no doubt about it. It just tastes better. Matchdays deserve Pepsi.
- [00:17]
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- [00:45]
Ryan Reynolds
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- [01:03]
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Joanna Coles
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- [01:16]
Hugh Doherty
know that they have different bedrooms and it's a little weirdly that Donald Trump actually gave Melania the better bedroom. But then there's what happens inside head bedroom. He insists on having carpet in the bathroom, carpet in the bathroom carpet. The domestic staff have to deal with the fact the carpet is wet. That's not the only problem they have to deal with. The other problem is in his boardroom. And in his bedroom they have to clean up because he leaves discarded detritus from his fast food habit on the floor. It includes what sounds like candy wrappers. Includes fast food wrappers. I mean, it sounds pretty awful.
- [02:04]
Joanna Coles
I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast we're recording on Juneteenth, a point when we're supposed to be reflecting and yet we can't reflect from the reflecting pool because it's covered in algae. It's covered in algae. We'll be getting to that with our executive editor, who Hugh Doherty. Plus the delicious new book out by Donald Trump, which tells us about his really revolting late night eating habits. Of course, Michael Wolff has often talked about those greasy hamburgers that the President lights in bed, but it turns out there's much more than that going on and he just throws the stuff off the bed for the staff to collect while the staff are having their own revenge and talking to Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan about, well, the president's domestic habits. And of course, Giorgia Meloni, the Italian prime minister's response to Trump when he said she was begging for a selfie. Turns out she really wasn't. Anyway, please subscribe if you haven't. This is our call to action to help support us as independent media. That's why we can bring you conversations like this without fear, favour and. Well, you subscribe. Let's get into it, okay, I just really want to get into this book that reveals Donald Trump's nighttime habits. Hugh this is Regime Change by Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan. It's the imperial presidency of Donald Trump. Tell me everything. Tell me everything.
- [03:41]
Hugh Doherty
Alvy C. Johnson Swan and Maggie Huberman are coming out on Tuesday with this book. And already lots of parts of it have been leaking out and leaking more than the reflecting pro, in fact, with just as much. But some of the big reveals are about how Trump lives his life. And the most fascinating thing that I think so far is all about the White House bedroom arrangements have disclosed a rule, I think, you know, as a rule, while we thought and Michael Wolf has often said that it's very clear that Donald Trump and Melania Trump do not sleep together, but more will know exactly how that arrangement goes down. We know that they have different bedrooms and it's total weirdly that Donald Trump actually gave Melania the better bedroom. It's a very hard to know what's going on there. She goes very Rarely in Washington, D.C. but she gets a better bedroom. But then that's what happens inside Hen's bedroom. And as it turns out, it's not great. I'll just, I want to take you back to a land and a town that we've all forgotten about the 1970s, 1980s. He insists on having carpet in the bathroom.
- [05:03]
Joanna Coles
Carpet in the bathroom. Well, it's warmer having carpet. I understand people having carpet.
- [05:09]
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It's warmer.
- [05:10]
Joanna Coles
I don't have one myself. But people do have carpet in the bathroom, although you would think that the White House would be able to have underfloor heating.
- [05:21]
Hugh Doherty
So it's unclear quite why he wants carpet in the bathroom. But it's one of the big problems that the domestic staff in the White House residence, and that's that area above, you know, above the center of the White House. It's not an east Wing that you knock down. It's a bit above the domestic staff have to Deal with the fact the carpet is wet. That's not the only problem they have to deal with. The other problem is in his boardroom and in his bedroom they have to clean up because he leaves discarded detritus from his fast food habit on the floor. Includes what sounds like candy wrappers, includes fast food rappers. I mean, it sounds pretty awful and you've got to stay. But that's if that's how, if that is how the President is treating these incredible dedicated domestic staff. And we all know we've all had accounts about what goes on in the Folly House residence. It was that great movie, the Butler. These are people who have dedicated their lives to being there for the first families. And I think it's safe to guess that they've never seen such a thing before.
- [06:33]
Joanna Coles
So Michael Wolff has often talked about the President eating hamburgers in bed. So I'm assuming that some of this comes from McDonald's. Maybe there's the odd Fisher filet sandwich that he enjoys. I think I read in a Daily Beast story about this that they're also having to be very careful when they throw out the detritus of his midnight snacks because sometimes there is actually White House sterling silver cutlery there.
- [07:05]
Hugh Doherty
You don't exactly know how they'd work this out, but no, they have to go through every bit of trash and fund if he's left the silver cut oriented. I'll just take you back to the first Trump presidency and a revelation there was also from a Magisterberman book which was that they had to deal with an issue for he was tearing up official White House documents, throwing them in the trash. And they had a team who was dead which were dedicated to literally taping these back together to compile with the Presidential Records Act. This time it's the, it's the silverware, Remember the White House silverware? He didn't get, they don't get it at a queue like some of us. They didn't go to, they don't go to Macy's. This is really, this is part of America. Items that are part of American history and they tossed in the floor and it appears whether some accidentally actually load it out into the garbage, you know, and were, were in the landfill, we don't know. But what we do know is that we realized he was doing this and they had, they now have to search this garbage. So it's, I think that people are going to say, well, this is very triggering those, you know, there's, there's conflict in the Middle east, gas prices remain high, inflation is is apparently incurable the the national in the levels that we've seen outside of war all these into trouble. But I just want to say we are dealing with an absolutely extraordinary insight into exactly how the President lives his life and how he treats the people closest to him. And I think that's something that everybody wants to know about.
- [08:47]
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- [10:11]
Joanna Coles
So Hugh, don't the White house staff sign NDAs when they're looking after the president? I mean, it's very unusual for this level of personal detail to come out about a president. I mean there weren't books that came out revealing this kind of thing about the Obamas or the Bushes or the Bidens. And of course we know that they had their enemies. But would Donald Trump actually be within his rights to feel a that these staff have been disloyal and b given how he loves to sue people that actually they're infringing an NDA?
- [10:52]
Hugh Doherty
Well waltz these are government employees, some of mortgage members of the military. So in principle, Zoe's at the point. There are dozens of White House staff. It's very difficult to sue dozens of people. We don't know who Michael Hilbrun and Jonathan Swan's sources are. And we also know that the difficulty that Trump has here is that there was something of how the Obamas and how particularly I think everybody will remember George H.W. bush and also George W. Bush's daughters on the affection that the Bush family fought for and received from the people that looked after them in the residence, particularly Jenna. Butch has been more public about how when she was able, she's been able to go back occasionally to the White House. She has hugged. She was seeing people that she had not seen in 20 odd years. She's hugged them, she's kissed them, she's felt such immense gratitude to them. George H.W. bush, I think we'll all remember. You know, there are pictures of him embracing these, you know, these public servants. And the words is kind of later because indeed they are traditional servants in a big house. But this is kind of unprecedented. We've never heard bad things about first families. And I think the idea of picking trash off the floor and the sense of entitlement about it, the warped carpet in the bathroom, these are several things that are damaging to Donald Trump. And if you went to court, somebody somewhere has said something that breaks that agreement. He's going to. He would have to work out who it was. And I'll do what. How will people feel about somebody? These are not highly paired people. The majority of them are African American and always have been the White House. And this is Juneteenth. The White House, of course, has a history that is colored by the missions, struggles with slavehold as part of both people who were enslaved and then, you know, the, the racial makeup of Washington D.C. so there's a whole lot of issues that this, that this raises, as I say, about how Trump treats the people right beside him, those people who are there to look after him.
- [13:16]
Joanna Coles
Okay, so what else do we learn about Melania Trump? We know that she doesn't apparently spend that much time in the White House. As I've said numerous times on this podcast, she makes it very clear at the end of her movie Melania, the Amazon Love Fest for her that at the end of Inauguration Day, which the movie leads up to, she makes it very clear that she and Donald Trump are going their own separate ways. And so what do we learn about their arrangements? And is she more liked by the staff than he is?
- [13:52]
Hugh Doherty
It's interesting, actually. Lauren, I'll just be honest. From what we know so far from this book, and we've not, we got read every page. I'm just, you know, just the same, it's out on Tuesday. We haven't obtained every bit of it. We so far have a kind of a bit of a ghost, I think suggestive of Mahoney not being there very much. She is in what is called the master bedroom. He was in what is traditionally been called the living room. And in previous administrations, John F. Kennedy and Jackie who the last presidential couple to have separate bedrooms. Worth pointing out, the living room was where we would come together. And Robin Regan and Nancy Reagan paused in this living room because they use it as a living room. Trump has taken it over and made it into a bedroom. But there is very, very little mention that we know of of Melania Trump. There's also a strange detail about Mohana and about how furniture that had been in the bedroom, which she had had, and these are the same boardrooms they had in the first presidency. Some of this furniture moved into his bedroom and she wasn't around. The other thing that we do learn is that she was very unhappy about the demolition of the East Wing. And that is pretty significant.
- [15:13]
Joanna Coles
Oh, that's interesting. So she was unhappy about it. And of course, the East Wing is traditionally where the first lady has her office. So she. Did she complain about it? Did she protest to him? What do we know about her reaction to it?
- [15:28]
Hugh Doherty
Well, the more that there were two things she was unhappy with sequentially. And the first one was the Rose Garden. And the Wolf Garden, of course, was created by Jackie Kennedy. It is, you know, it was load out by Bunny Mellon. It's. It kind of slumped. It's one of the things, the great symbols of the White House until. Until Dump Trap paved it over. It turns out he wanted to pave over the whole lot. He wanted the roses gone as well. And the way that it's put by Maggie Hayden and Jonathan Swan is that word came back from the First Lady's team that she was very unhappy and there was a compromise. And the compromise was that the rose bushes got to stay. Now, similarly, when the East Wing demolition became known as a plan, word again came back that this was not going to make the first lady happy, but it still went ahead. So I think there's a lot to digest about their marriage and their arrangement there and a lot of questions about how did. Like this, this phrase I've used as word came back from the First Lady's tea. Is that how they communicate? There's lots more to know.
- [16:39]
Joanna Coles
There is lots more to know. Do we think that Donald Trump talked to Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan for this particular book? Because certainly they've talked on and off to him, as have many reporters. He calls people all the time. He loves being reported on. But sometimes, sometimes people cooperate. And I always Think you and I both know this with Princess Diana, who cooperated, told reporters everything and then of course denied it frantically and said it was completely untrue.
- [17:15]
Hugh Doherty
I think we've got a new transparency in the White House apartheid. Yes, he did speak to them. He spoke to them in March, which was at the end of this very long process that they'd gone through. They've spoken to, they say, of a thousand interviews a day of wines, thousand people. They spoke to hundreds of people and some of them two or three or four times. But in March we finally spoke to them robot into the Oval Office. And again, we don't know everything with this book, but we know a lot of it. It's quite an extraordinary scene because they walk into the Oval Office and what they find is him sitting surrounded by gold, obviously, and he's looking at pictures. It's mid March, he's at war with Iran. He's looking at pictures of maple trees because he says he's altering some more trees for the White House, saying so it's a scene that tells you a lot, I think, about this president who's determined to magnify the void house. He's mar a lagoing it. And I've said the day of it, even in our comments, people are saying, why are we focusing on this trivia? Well, maybe it ends trophy, but we're focusing on what the president is focusing on and he's the most powerful man in the world and he's the one looking at printouts of maple trees. The other things that he was looking at was a printout that claimed that he had 339 billion TikTok views. Who knows how this was counted? Who knows even came up with this number. But there it was. And we'll do it, though, that both of them interviewed him. Clearly. I think there might be more quotes coming in this book. It's 400 odd pages, but I think some of it was off the record, some of it was fact checking. Some of it was then putting things to him. And on the wow, I'm just going to wander some bad language. I'm not going to use the worst of it. He has had a complicated relationship in public with Maggie Haberman. He speaks to her. He has spoken to her regularly over the years. They go back many, many years. She was a New Art Post reporter. That is his favorite newspaper and he has nicknamed her Maggot Haberman in public at the same time. Many people watching this, I know we're going to see in the comments, people feel that she has Been an avenue for him to sane watch and an avenue for him to get his views across any on the way out the door I'm just going to have to glance down to get this quote right. He says, I'll name you book will be critical. But remember this, people are tired of the ball. Yes, always criticizing. I'm tired of winning and winning and winning and just getting bad effing press. It's about time that you tell the truth. So it's the 7 billion interval. There's certainly been access and I think even he knows that what's in this book is bad, bad, bad and stub of the honor. And I, you know, I'm not going to, not going to say that these are necessarily more insightful but they certainly I think are more significant to many people. The idea that there was a discovery, a crisis discussion about how to hide the Epstein files that took place on the Situation Room and it might have been taped, that is an absolute bombshell. And we reviewed this word, we've called it a bombshell book because that is an absolute bombshell. The Situation Room being taped, the EPC files being covered up, an active plot to do that. These are things that people are going to look at, you know, in the swath of history but also in November and say, oh my God, what is going on in the White House? How could this be the serious presidency? Meanwhile, there's all the maple jewels and
- [21:09]
Joanna Coles
of course all the gold decoration and the filigree that he loves the so much in the Oval Office. There's an anecdote in the book, I think where Carolyn Levitt comes in, the press spokesperson and she's astonished to find Donald Trump super gluing some filigree to the wall. And this is just, you know, this is part and parcel of how he decorates it.
- [21:33]
Hugh Doherty
A tiny correction there because what absolutely factual the obeast it was to the mantle of the Oval Office fireplace.
- [21:41]
Joanna Coles
The mantle, not the wall.
- [21:43]
Hugh Doherty
The mantle, not the wall, the mantle. I'm not, I'm not some, I'm not DIYer. I'm left handed. I don't do those days well. Every super glue I've ever done involves one, you know like my two finger been stuck together there and then it goes somewhere and I just the the idea that the most powerful man in the world and I keep saying this most powerful man in the world is spending his time flicking through catalogues of maple trees going, going up to the mantle on going oh, do you know what? I've got another bit of gold and super Gluing it on. It's extraordinary. I mean, I'm just stating the obvious here, but FDR wasn't doing that in 1942.
- [22:26]
Joanna Coles
No. And I mean, actually, what's fascinating too, because we've done our own reporting around Trump's manic truth socialing is that obviously a lot of his truth social posts can probably be sort of timed by his smacking. So we know, because Michael Wolff has talked about his obsession with ice cream, that he loves to have a tub of ice cream, that Michael talks about going to his house in Hollywood and Trump tossing him a carton of Haagen Dazs. So we know that he. He eats fast food in bed, he eats sugar in bed. And then we can see the outcome of it, which is these manic posts. And of course, if you're eating, you know, tubs of ice cream, if you're mainlining Starbucks sugary snacks, you're not going to get much sleep.
- [23:14]
Hugh Doherty
No, I mean, while not at sugar highs, it's like, you know, one thing I should say is that there's a mutant question which number of people have raised and we don't know the answer because we don't have the text. The leak of the book has suggested that he has Starbucks wrappers on the floor of the bedroom. A lot of people suggested it might be Starburst. We all wrote him to see the text. We're waiting to see if there's going to be some corrections, really make clear what it is. But whatever it is, it's loaded with sugar. You shouldn't be eating sugar all day. But now we all know that, and we all know, you know, with the evidence of road eyes, that Donald Trump is not a healthy man. He was 80. He is certainly. He shows vigor. We can't argue about that, but he shows the coin. And anybody who is watching him, you know, I'm aware of this, at any stage after the age of, I don't know, 22, you don't feel good seating Shuko right now. You know, it's this extraordinary manic burst of truth social coming night after night or on Air Force One, which I really want to talk about. You're right, it must match up to these sugar rushes and this rush of salty foods that anybody would be told by their physician not to do well.
- [24:50]
Joanna Coles
And it's slightly addict's behaviour. I mean, we're always told that Donald Trump's older brother, Mary Trump's father, and obviously we've had Mary Trump many times on the podcast. She's a friend of The Daily Beast. And she hasn't remarkable sort of observations about him because she's a clinical psychologist. But she talks a lot about her father having been an alcoholic that Donald Trump refused to talk. Touch alcohol. He says he doesn't touch it. And yet we know that he's so passionate about Diet Coke that he actually has a button on the Resolute desk that he presses to get Diet Coke whenever he needs it. And this is kind of addict's behavior. Late at night, a pint of ice cream, lots of wrappers around yourself. Either that or it slightly reminds me of the fashion world where people used to take a lot of Ambien when we were flying back and forth to the shows in Europe. And models and fashion editors who had disordered eating would report that they had taken to Ambien, woken up and they were smeared with Snickers wrappers from the minibar because they sort of, you know, behaved weirdly. So I wonder if it's possible he occasionally takes sleeping pills and then wakes up and he's eating all this stuff. I mean, who knows? But it's, it's odd behavior for a president.
- [26:11]
Hugh Doherty
The very serious health huls going on this week, I should say, Joanna, because what, what we saw this week when he was in avion van for the G7 summit, that there are a number of pictures of his hands and they show marks of his hands. They include a cut on the back, I believe, of his left hand, sort of like there. And they also show on his left thumb or pinprick pattern, which is incredibly similar to that which people who have diabetes are used to doing when they check their blood sugar. And we have asked the White House, what is this mark about? Is he receiving? Is he being monitored for diabetes, for pre diabetes? We have no answer. So, right. We don't know if he's on Ambien. We don't know if he's getting monitored for diabetes. And we were asking relentlessly. And these are very serious questions. And in fact, the White House physician Sean Barbarella has said, though are not necessarily obligated to disclose everything that is going on. So here we go. Ambien, something similar. This passionate behavior is actually a serious question worth asking. And again, I think go back to the seriousness and importance of these revelations in this book.
- [27:30]
Joanna Coles
Okay, so we know that something also is going very wrong with the reflecting pool. It's Juneteenth, a time for reflection. Yet the one thing that isn't allowing anybody to do any reflecting because it's covered in thick green algae and we've all seen the pictures. It's not American flag blue. It is a disgusting kind of stuff, syrupy green, mouldy water that I don't think anybody wants to look at. So, Hugh, can you just remind us.
- [28:03]
Hugh Doherty
I think I put it in. My poor boy.
- [28:05]
Joanna Coles
Well, how did we get here, Hugh? Because I think everybody, I mean, previous presidents have wrestled with the fact that the pool does leak, and yet it's one of the most classic, beautiful, calm places in D.C. to have a stroll and as its purpose says, to reflect on whatever ails us, whatever troubles us.
- [28:29]
Hugh Doherty
Well, right. I mean, yes, I think anybody who's been to D.C. has, has almost inevitable walked along the pool and thought, what a great, you know, what a great place, a place of peace, a piece of camp. You know, usually you're walking towards and the Lincoln Memorial, sometimes you go in one direction, towards the very, you know, the very large World War II. And both of them are, you know, fantastic pieces of architecture. This, this reflecting pool has, has long been troubled by algae. I'm just saying, like since almost, I think since it started. Since it started being filled when it was built in, in the 1920s. And it's often, you know, there's been a number of schemes to try to deal with this and the most recent one was a pretty elaborate, or as say, the most recent one before TR bump was a very elaborate new drainage system that would in theory, clone the water consistently for this, this algae. It didn't quite work as well as it should have, and people acknowledged that. Trump, however, saw this as something that was to bond on Joe Biden and Barack Obama. I'm George W. Bush. I'm not sure he knows other presidents to blame, but they're the ones. Because the reflecting pool, of course, is owned by the federal government. It's a responsibility of the Department of the Interior. So he blamed his predecessors for these new systems that have been installed that haven't quite worked. And of course, what does he do when he owns a lot of swimming pools, but particularly Mar a Lago? And he said, I'm the expert, you know, I'm the only one that can sort it out. He got in and this is where the story goes from green slime to real slime. He said that it would only cost a couple of million. It has now cost $18 million.
- [30:21]
Joanna Coles
18. So it's nine times more expensive than he said it was going to be.
- [30:27]
Hugh Doherty
It is mid race and that we know of. And the contracts were given out without bids. And I'm just going to Go on. A completely colorful and I literally mean this story which will make people groom with rage. One of those bids was given to a felon, a man who'd been convicted of felony accounts of brawbing congressman. And the picture that you're about to see on screen of this man, John Caffaro has caused hilarity to everybody who sees it. There have been comparisons between him and fat Tomi from the Simpsons to somebody who kidnapped orphan army. There's been all those comparisons. But this gal, he runs a company called Groom Water Services and to be what he delivered because the water is in fact groom, he got 1.8 million. How could he possibly get into this? Well, we don't really know because it's a no bid contract and it's shrouded in secrecy. But let me just run through some of the things we know about him. He's a Trump duder, he's got a house near Mar a Lago and Donald Trump says he is, quote, a fantastic man. Sorry about five days he spent in jail for trying to make an illegal donation to his daughter and sorry for the large fine he paid for blubbing a notorious congressional crook called Jim Trafficant, a man who by the way has the broadly elaborate hair which turned out to be a hairpiece and is often seen as a predecessor politically to Trump. But by the way, this guy was the perfect guy with his green water services to sort out the reflecting pool.
- [32:14]
Joanna Coles
So what happens now? We know it's supposed to be American flag blue. It's supposed to be perfect for July 4th because it's obviously not perfect for Juneteenth. Is it possible it's going to be fixed?
- [32:29]
Hugh Doherty
Everything is possible, Joanna. The war that we saw them trying to fix it this week was pouring in gallon bottles of bleach such that you would all probably have under the sink and can certainly get at our local Ace Hardware. They were pouring them individually in by hand and perhaps the most devastating outcome, I'll just remind you, among the things that Donald Trump has called the water there are filthy and disgusting. He promised on June 4, June 4 that it was full of clean, beautiful water. It was 6.75 million gallons in there. Unfortunately, there's no bit of analysis which I'll credit the Washington Post for this. They got a researcher at the UVU University of Virginia to use satellite imagery that goes back five years and issue is there's more algae than ever before. So can it be fixed? Mabel? I'm not sure that pulling individual gallon bottles of unbranded bleach is the wall. And as you see, the clock is ticking to July 4th. Realistically, two weeks, or it's two weeks in one day, it's July 4th. It doesn't look like it. It seems to be going up, not down.
- [33:48]
Joanna Coles
Well, and of course, we remember Donald Trump has a thing about bleach. Remember when he just wished that we could get rid of COVID by spraying bleach at each other into our veins? All of it. He's obviously got a thing about bleach. So, Hugh, of course, this is made all the more fascinating this week. The UFC fight, the strolling around Versailles where he's obviously getting more and more ideas for his ballroom, the book about his unseemly, let's say, bedroom habits, scarfing all sorts of fast food and leaving the wrappers everywhere. And I'm assuming he's sort of sleeping in the wrappers, or perhaps he throws them off the bed. Like Henry VIII sort of ate his chicken bones and turkey legs and threw them over his shoulder for people to collect. But the.
- [34:39]
Hugh Doherty
Can I just, can I just correct a small. Just because you're so factual at the Daily Beast, Henry VIII in reality, didn't have access to turkey because it hadn't been brought back from what is not in the United States at the time.
- [34:52]
Joanna Coles
Alternative facts, as Kellyanne Conway would say. Anyway, he's eating chicken legs then, but he eats his chicken leg and then throws them over his shoulder. And of course, poor people come and collect them. And actually, I've been in England for the last week or so, as you know, and actually, the comparisons with Henry VIII and Donald Trump seem more and more similar, actually creating his own church, you know, getting rid of his wives when he's had enough of them, the whole thing. Actually, you suddenly realize there are these characters in history that crop up that have just completely outsized power and use their power in an outsized way. So, of course, the juxtaposition this week that I think everybody is seeing is the opening of the Obama library yesterday, the hilarious speech that Michelle Obama gave with several digs directly at Donald Trump, and enormous amount of applause when she references Barack Obama's Nobel Peace Prize. Of course, the one thing that Donald Trump has been craving since he's got in second time round, but also the fact that the previous living presidents are all there. So Joe Biden was there with Jill, the Bushes, George W. Bush and Laura were there. The Clintons were there. So I can't help but think Donald Trump, especially given, I mean, at least according to Anthony Scaramucci, he knows what a bad deal he's ended up striking with Iran. Whether or not he's feeling utterly paranoid that these people are all sitting around discussing him, laughing at him, or whether or not he thinks they are envious of him because he's now wielding global power.
- [36:40]
Hugh Doherty
I'll just go back to some of the revelations from this book because they're fresh. But these are things that Michael Wolff has been saying to you for so many months, more than months, for all the time that he'd been part of the Daily Beast family. Inside Trump's Head. One of the reveratory moments in the book is Trump turns to Howard Lutnick, his most reliable sycophant, and he. He says to him very abusively, what happened to you, Howard? You used to be a killer. You were 35. Now we've got your beautiful wife. Now you're just a p word. The words that Trump we know uses regularly, the grab and by word. And the thing is, as Michael Wolf has often pointed out, he's a lizard balloon. And Anthony Scaradruche said similar. He knows there is no way that watching and that's what he does. He watches television, watching this incredible number of people with the Obamas to open their library. All the living ex presidents. The presence of George W. Bush is of course a rebuke to Donald Trump. Donald Trump was smirking at this appalling insult that was leveled by Michelle Obama at his. His tacky UFC fight on the South Lawn when this Josh Hulkin stood up and said, and this is vowel, but you know, it has to be said on Michelle Obama is a man. And Trump smirked. His haunted house didn't condemn it. He's never condemned it. George W. Bush went, and we know that George W. Bush and Michelle are friends. He went straight to Michelle and hugged her. You can't get any stronger rebuke than that. Trump is watching. He knows. He knows. He knows how this plays. He knows that the A list were all there. Even people that the Trump loves. Kind of thought mobile could be sympathetic. Beau Chappelle, the comedian was there. He's been incredibly controversial on trans issues. He was there and he said it was a great moment of history because Mogul Trump isn't hurting. And the contrast, the saw and the
- [38:52]
Joanna Coles
contrast of the singers too, because of course, Donald Trump had wanted there to be a big concert. And I think it was Rick Grinnell, who'd previously been in charge of the Kennedy Center.
- [39:03]
Hugh Doherty
They're unemployed.
- [39:05]
Joanna Coles
Well, and I was gonna say now happily back to its actual name. The John F. Kennedy center, not the Donald Trump Kennedy Center. Their attempts to put on a concert to celebrate Donald Trump's birthday fell, I mean, just completely fell apart. Martina McBride, even Millie Vanilli pulling out because they didn't want to be a part of it because it had been hijacked by maga. And yet you have at the Obama library, you have Stevie Wonder, you have Bruce Springsteen, you have American classic artists. They don't get bigger than that. So that must also feel like a rebuke.
- [39:41]
Hugh Doherty
The sense of rebuke was out there for every second of it, hence noon is ever mentioned. And what does Donald Trump hate most of all? What being in the conversation. And the vision that Obama set out for his library was very then pointed. He said it would acknowledge his mistakes and shortfallings. He also spoke about the beauty and the challenges of democracy. He spoke in lineage. Let's just be honest. This is a register unknown to Donald Trump. And he was cheered, he was applauded, he was hugged, he posed with, you know, all the, all the first, the first families. And the contrast to the UFC event was absolutely blatant. And there was one, one particular guest that I think is going to cause raised eyebrows, at least around if there's a Trump family dinner table. I can't really envisage it because he'd be in the bedroom eating off the floor. But in the Trump family group chat, Ivanka's sister in law was there and she spoke about what a great day it was for America. So you're talking about Ivanka's sister in
- [40:58]
Joanna Coles
law, supermodel Karlie Kloss. He's a friend of mine, I should just say. And he's married to Josh Kushner, who is Jared Kushner's brother. He has an enormous private equity fund called or venture capital fund, Thrive Capital.
- [41:14]
Hugh Doherty
What a symbol. First of all, the devoted country that will have this member of a family, the rest of this family, I should say. Her husband Josh tries to say to people that he's not political, just a lot of ways that we should be using these days. Look what happens to Nate Bargazi. But her husband says he stays away from politics. But her father in law, Charles Kushner, a felon pardoned by Trump, who became his ambassador to Paris, insisted Ivanka Trump more ufc. Her brother in law Jared Kushner, negotiating peace in the Middle east and Ukraine. The comment on the results. And there she was. So I think the sense of the closeness of this rebuke to the Trump family machine is going to be felt by them. I just go back to my point. They know. They know that this looks great. They know that whatever your views are in the architecture. Now, Joanna, you're not a huge fan of your band of presidential library building, but whatever your views on that, you saw a united front of absolute A listers in one polls for one purpose. And that's something Donald Trump has never managed to do well.
- [42:32]
Joanna Coles
And you also had a former first lady and Michelle Obama giving her husband a rousing speech, which I guess you could argue Melania did in Trump 1. But at Trump 2, he looked incredulous when she turned up and smiled at him during the rnc. I mean, nobody expected her to come. She showed up, she didn't say anything and she wouldn't sit with him in the box at the rnc. I'm expecting you to correct me on that. You looked as if you had your Daily Beast fact checker. Joanna's. Joanna's exaggerating, but I'm pretty sure that's right. Right. He wasn't expecting her to turn up at the rnc. Right. And it was just after the shooting at Butler, Pennsylvania, so would have looked really hard hearted if she hadn't shown up.
- [43:22]
Hugh Doherty
The word. You could see that the Obamas are a joint enterprise, if you like, that Michelle was there to speak in support of her husband. And I'll just say that they also did an interview on ABC News and they sat together. You know, I'm not sure. Have we ever seen Melania and Donald Trump sitting together together for an interview while he's been president? I'm not sure we have. But they sat together and Robin Roberts asked Michelle, what's next for you? What's your next EWA going to be about? And she said me and I can't imagine the landing with Trump saying that to Donald Trump. And I certainly can't imagine that she would laugh and put that Donald Trump would laugh and put his hands on his wife's hand and be not just approving but supportive and part of this journey. The contrast in these couples is extraordinary.
- [44:20]
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- [44:49]
Joanna Coles
there's also a contrast with Trump's version of being at the G7 summit this week and spending time with Giorgia Meloni, the Prime Minister of Italy. He says that she was desperate to talk to him, that she insisted on having selfies. Incredibly unusual. Giorgia Meloni actually decided to respond to the president and say, this is completely untrue. I wasn't demanding a selfie. And why are you so much more pleasant to China and to Russia than you are to your allies? It makes sense. It makes no sense. Why do you do this, which is actually one of the first times that people have challenged him on this and his sort of nonsense. And he also sort of behaved as if he, he gave her an audience and she should be incredibly grateful for it, instead of acknowledging that she is an ally, she's part of the European Union, part of NATO, and that we're allies.
- [45:47]
Hugh Doherty
Still. I just want to quote the words of Giorgio Moloney are at least translated from Italian. I do not speak Italian. There is one thing to remember. She said, neither I nor Italy ever beg.
- [46:02]
Joanna Coles
That's right, because he said she begged him for a selfie.
- [46:05]
Hugh Doherty
Begged. She begged him to take a photo of her. She wanted it so badly. I think there's a sort of sexualized element to this, rather chlorine, his language and obviously how he approaches women. But this is also a reflection of Donald Trump's view of power and how power rests with him. And what we saw this week at this G7 in, in France was actually this power didn't really look too much like his. This was not the only bad, bad moment of human interaction that suggests that Trump and power in the world, on the world stage are real, not as closely related as he would think. The other great moment was that he walked in an hour late to the main session of the Stephen leaders who were there. And around this table, we've got Mark Carney, you've got Giorgio Meloni, you've got Emmanuel Macron, who I'm sure we're going to discuss in a second and who
- [47:03]
Joanna Coles
is the host and who's the host, because this is taking place in Evian in the south of France. Mark Carney, of course, the Canadian Prime
- [47:12]
Hugh Doherty
Minister, the King Savo, the United Kingdom's prime minister, who is there as well. And it work while sitting around Scott begs him, of all people, has sat himself in the President's chair. Who didn't? I don't know. J.T. barnes wasn't there. He was promoting his book on the View. But JD But Scott Besson was sitting in the chair. Trump walked in and I think in the end he swaggled, but he walked in lumber den behind the South Korean delegation who were sending in, I don't know, an interpreter or something. And he walked in and walked a bit and went, I'm the boss. And there goes laughter because it's not cooler after this Iran mess, after the Cold War, difficulties that he has dealing with Russia, you know, Ukraine and his trip to China that got him nothing. It's all clear that frankly that he is the boss. And therefore there was laughter. And then this weird quote that he gave to an Italian beanspaper or Italian newspaper news channel that was published in Further Morning about her balking for it. Balking for a photo was immediately responded to by George Maloney. People are pushing back. They've slung upon our wallsing. And that's not something that, it's not something that we have seen on a world stage. How does he react? We will wait and see.
- [48:37]
Joanna Coles
But we're also beginning to see it at home too, partly with Republicans who are now leaving, either because they've been primaried like John Cornyn or Thom Tillis, who's leaving. And of course these people could have grown a spine before. It's much easier doing at the door on your way out. But nevertheless, there is certainly a feeling, I think, among certain Republicans that they've got a large enough group of resistance that they can begin to push back. Hugh, it's so interesting talking to you. I'm thrilled that we've managed to catch up. And when we speak next week, I really hope that we can dig down into the Republicans who are beginning to resist Trump now and say enough already. You're going to be a lame duck.
- [49:28]
Hugh Doherty
I think this is a few days where we are going to see an accretion of the sentiment inside the Republican Party. This Iran deal. And I'm just, we don't, we could, we could do podcasts. He's unpacking. Is it a deal? But it's a memorial.
- [49:48]
Joanna Coles
It's a memorandum of understanding, but nobody understands what's in it. And the Iranians just laughing, saying he's the worst deal maker in the world.
- [49:58]
Hugh Doherty
The war may not belike, let's not, let's not judge that. But what we can say is that people like Ted Cruz are not happy. People like people who have been vehemently opposed to any help, assistance, aid to the Iranian regime of saying it appeals. We're going to get 300 billion. It appeals they get to keep some nuclear material, it appears they get to keep their missiles. These are problems for these, for, for people you know as Ted Cruz, Josh Harley and these Republicans that you mentioned that are leaving arm away, they begin to be nicknamed the yolo. You only live once caucus because they can stop this. That's that sentiment is going to rise. Rupert Ruk, the incredible influential media mogul even at many foul remains a very powerful voice on this particular issue. On Iran, on foreign relations. The Wall Street Journal, which is read heavily by these old fashioned establishment Republicans in something have in its opinion pages been really, really critical of Donald Trump has used words like surrender. So I think the next few days you're going to see an accretion of this. And Trump has been pushing back and he has literally said to people, I'm the President and you're not. What's his response?
- [51:22]
Joanna Coles
This is his new catchphrase, right? I am the president.
- [51:26]
Hugh Doherty
This is new catchphrases. Yes.
- [51:28]
Joanna Coles
And I wonder if this has a knock on effect on Marco Rubio and J.D. vance, who as you say is now out promoting his book. Who knew we would be in this position?
- [51:39]
Hugh Doherty
Well, I think from this meeting next week it's going to be clear what is for the Republican Party at large or the model movement at large has swallowed this deal and gone wrong with Donald Trump's assessment, this crazy assessment this week that he is more powerful than Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin and Chairman Mao and then others and said things good to me. We're going to see if they'd gone along with that and was more powerful and didn't. He's made them swallow this memorandum of understanding which appeared to be crumbling even as we speak, or whether they say hold on, we've got elections coming up in, in November, in two years time. We've got presidential raids coming up. Every senator looks in the M and says hello, Mr. President. Ted Cruz absolutely making moves. Marco Rubo appeals to being anointed by Trump. Judge Vance clear of things he might have been anointed by Trump. You get a lot of anointing when you're a Catholic. But that one, that's not, that's not official. And although there's 100 senators, maybe out of, maybe out of that Republican caucus, there are four or five people who are plausible candidates. Josh Hawley is a very plausible candidate still. Tom Cotton a very plausible candidate. So we're going to have to decide what do I do about this, where do I go on this and am I going to say yes, you're more powerful than Hitler. And that's a good thing, or am I going to say okra stop. Let's say one thing's bad and once they do that, they stop resisting. Well, it's going to be not just torn up, you know, candy wrappers on the, on the floor of the bedroom. It's going to be things thrown at the walls in anger because the reaction that Trump is going to have to that is going to be fascinating.
- [53:32]
Joanna Coles
Wow.
- [53:33]
Sports Commentator
Okay.
- [53:33]
Joanna Coles
Well, Hugh, let's get back together again at the end of next week for further catch up and track what's happening. But it does feel that it's all beginning to fall apart, that it's all cracking open. And Trump's domination of the Republican Party certainly seems to be faltering.
- [53:56]
Hugh Doherty
It's one Algal bloom that appears not to be blooming right now.
- [54:01]
Joanna Coles
Donald Trump's power and no reflecting in the reflecting pool. Huey, thank you very much. I know you have a newsroom to run. Thank you. And I will look forward to seeing you. Well, I won't be back for another week or so, but I will look forward to seeing you in person when I do. But I think we'll be seeing each other before then on, on the daily basis.
- [54:24]
Hugh Doherty
My pleasure.
- [54:28]
Joanna Coles
I always love talking to Hugh Doherty. He's so knowledgeable, he knows everything going on and he reads everything. You can never find a story that Hugh hasn't already read and knows much more about. Anyway, if you have been, thank you for joining us. Big shout out to our production team working on the holiday day. Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro, and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have
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so many bebeast tier members now, there
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Joanna Coles
are too many names to read out.
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And we really appreciate your support.
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Joanna Coles
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Joanna Coles
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Joanna Coles
Did you have to fight a dragon?
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Joanna Coles
Was it scary?
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Joanna Coles
Did the car have a sunroof?
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Joanna Coles
Okay, good story.
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