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- [00:00]
Hugh Doherty
Mint is still $15 a month for.
- [00:02]
General Mark Hertling
Premium wireless, and if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should 1.
- [00:08]
Hugh Doherty
It's $15 a month. 2.
- [00:10]
General Mark Hertling
Seriously, it's $15 a month. 3.
- [00:13]
Hugh Doherty
No big contracts. 4. I use it.
- [00:15]
General Mark Hertling
5.
- [00:16]
Hugh Doherty
My mom uses it. Are you.
- [00:17]
General Mark Hertling
Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right?
- [00:19]
Hugh Doherty
Okay, give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 per 3 month plan $15 per month equivalent required New customer offer first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.
- [00:29]
General Mark Hertling
See mintmobile.com whatever Team Phi is on.
- [00:32]
Hugh Doherty
Has a chance to win a championship.
- [00:34]
General Mark Hertling
I'm Kristina Williams, host of the podcast.
- [00:36]
Hugh Doherty
In case you missed it with Christina Williams.
- [00:38]
General Mark Hertling
The WNBA playoffs are here and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout players to the behind the scenes moments you won't find anywhere else.
- [00:48]
Hugh Doherty
It's really, really hard to be the champions, but we have to remember how.
- [00:51]
General Mark Hertling
It feels and embrace the new challenge that we have. So listen to in case youe Missed it with Christina Williams, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Dee Blue Sports and entertainment on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, ACAST powers the world's best podcasts.
- [01:11]
Hugh Doherty
Here's a show that we recommend. Hey there. If you've ever felt your confidence slip at work, you're not alone. The good news? Confidence isn't a fixed trait. It's a skin. And like any skill, you can build it with the right tools and practice. I'm Ann Morris, CEO and best selling author and together with my wife Frances Frey, a professor at Harvard Business School, we host the TED podcast Fixable. This season we're zeroing in on confidence, what it really is, how to strengthen it, and how to help others see you as the leader you already are. So if you're ready to show up with more conviction to get promoted, to lead with clarity, to do the best work of your career, join us on Fixable. Wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:03]
General Mark Hertling
ACAST helps.
- [02:04]
Hugh Doherty
Creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.
- [02:08]
General Mark Hertling
Acast.com.
- [02:12]
Hugh Doherty
The one that's resonated most was his discussion. His idea of let's train our troops in what he called dangerous cities. What are the dangers?
- [02:22]
General Mark Hertling
Breaking that that razor's edge into policing activities again is contrary to the Constitution and contrary to our laws. So it shouldn't be done. But what I heard the President say yesterday was an implied remark that he was telling everyone in that room is be prepared to do that. And that only happens once an insurrection occurs, like during the Civil War.
- [02:55]
Hugh Doherty
Welcome to the Daily Beast podcast. I'm Hugh Doherty, executive editor of the Daily Beast. I'm keeping the seat warm for Joanna Coles. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for your many comments. Please keep them coming. We love them. Thank you. Especially to everyone who commented on the last edition of the Daily Beast podcast, where my guest was the unmissable Daily Beast columnist David Rothkoff. Our member Tanja Oonan put it best. David Rothkoff is brilliant and he will be back soon because he is always full of insight and even reassurance in troubling times. Thank you also to those of you who understood my accent and said nice things about it. Apologies to those still struggling with it. I am lobbying YouTube for simultaneous translation. I will let you know, although you may not understand me when I say it. We have a very special guest in this new edition of the Daily Beast podcast. I am honored to be joined by Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. General, thank you for joining us. Thank you for your service. There could be no better person to talk with about the bizarre spectacle we saw unfold on Tuesday at Quantico in Virginia. Just to catch people up. That's where Pete Hegseth and then Donald Trump addressed about 800 generals and admirals. It was, frankly, it was really something. Hegseth raged at what he called the Department of Woke. He went off about troops having beards, and perhaps most sinisterly, he talked about the military being an instrument of overwhelming violence, disorders designed to kill people and break things. He even called rules of engagement stupid. And Trump, let's be frank, he rambled. He croaked for more than an hour. But one part really stood out. That was when he said that what he called dangerous American cities should be used as a training ground for troops. General, I know you were watching. I know you were taking notes. I know importantly that you were speaking to people who were there with whom you had served. What did they tell you and what was the big takeaway that you had from this?
- [04:47]
General Mark Hertling
Well, there were actually two segments of the of the day. I guess the first one was when Secretary Hegseth began the presentations. And then President Trump came in later and, and followed up. And there were two very different engagements. I thought the first one was more of a lecture by the secretary against these, these hundreds of generals and admirals who had come from all over the world. And before I neglect to say this, the other people in the room were the command sergeant majors, the master chiefs, the chief petty officers, the ones who are probably the closest to the soldiers because they've grown up in the ranks, and I hate to use this phrase, but they have a better bullshit detector than most. That's part of their training. And so you could tell by just the facial expressions that this was a session to discipline people, that the people in the room were being berated by the Secretary. The list of things that he talked about, and I was busily taking notes while he was talking, started off about the so called Liberation Day for the military, where we get back to doing our primary job of killing people and breaking things. That truthfully to me is offensive because that is what we sometimes have to do, but is not our only mission in light. Then he started talking about the potential for not following up on the laws of land warfare. The Geneva Convention rules of engagements didn't make any sense to him, suggesting women across the board don't meet the standard. He gave that the. I forgot how he mentioned it, but it was something about Beardos, which has to do with a malady that many soldiers, primarily black soldiers, have that create a shaving profile for them. And he also talked about one of the things that suggested to me, based on a past duty station I had returning to the days of drill sergeants smoking recruits in basic training. I could go on and on, Hugh, but those were just some of the big ticket items, along with the elimination of the Inspector General. I thought that was fascinating because he in fact is under investigation for his use of the signal apps. So him saying that is more personal aggrandizement, as well as his hawking his own book, the War on Warriors, which was really a compilation of thoughts from a disgruntled soldier. So if you put that all in a category of what he was talking about, it was berating. It was embarrassing. It's something that leaders across any organization don't do. They don't. They don't insult in, publish or public or discipline in public. They do that privately where they praise in public. That's. That's a key factor of leadership. And yet Secretary Hegseth was doing this in front of the world on TV cameras. So it tarnished the reputation of not only those in the room, but I think the reputation of all of our military. And that was just the beginning.
- [08:11]
Hugh Doherty
Well, I was just going to say there's a few things that you raised, and one of them, I was really vecking to speak to you about this because you mentioned drill sergeants and Going. I think he talked about going back to standards. But you in fact, where I think I just want to get this title right. You were the first Deputy Commanding General for initial military training. So if there's one person that knows about what makes military training work and what it shouldn't be, it's you. And did that description of laying hands on recruits and shark attacks and not bullying. He kept saying not bullying, but it sounded pretty much like bullying to an outside observer. Is that what the military should be doing to people, to 18 year olds that are joining up?
- [09:05]
General Mark Hertling
Let me emphatically answer that, Hugh. No, absolutely not. That's what used to be done in the old days. And what I add to that is the old bad days. What we instill in young soldiers in today's army is their ability to be leaders, to be eventual leaders, to someday be a sergeant, even if it's a young private in basic training, they want to aspire to lead others. And we went away from that type of basic training decades ago. And you're right, I was deputy Commander for Training and Doctrine Command, but I was the commander of initial military training. And in that role, we watched 160,000 civilians come into our basic training sites every year. And in 10 weeks or so, we would train them to be soldiers before they went off to their advanced training in their different specialties. But what I'll tell you is those two years I spent in initial military training, what we called imt were some of the most insightful I saw, some of the most insightful things I ever saw as a soldier, how sergeants will prepare soldiers for the future. And what I'd add to that, Hugh, is during my next tour of duty in Europe, commanding forces in Europe, I had an opportunity to go to Russia several times. And every time I went there, I saw their approach toward basic training, which was exactly the one that Secretary Hegseth described the other day. The beating of soldiers, the harassment, the laying hands, the dumping of rooms, the hazing. That's what makes a bad army even worse. So when you talk about the quality of our troops compared to the Russians, I'll take ours any day and twice on Sunday. And this was exactly what I found wrong with what Secretary Hegseth was doing.
- [11:02]
Hugh Doherty
Just there's so much we could talk about this, but I know we want to get to talking about what in some ways should have been the main event, the commander in chief. And I don't think that we actually have a historical precedent for the commander in chief addressing 800 of the most senior members of the military in public. It's not something that's ever, to anybody's knowledge, I think, happened before. But what was your takeaway from what you heard from him, and also what was your takeaway about his manner and his delivery? Because this was unusual, not just historically, but usually when Trump addresses hundreds of people, he expects a reaction. And it was very noticeable. You know, I watched, I think it was two and a half hours in total between him and Hegseth. There was no applause, there was no laughter, there was no shouts and screams. And this was not like I've watched I don't know how many hundreds of hours of Trump rallies. This was totally different. What was your takeaway from that?
- [12:11]
General Mark Hertling
Yeah, it's interesting, Hugh, because I'll compare it to a couple of things. First of all, I agree with you completely. President Trump thrives on applause and cheering and interactions with a crowd. And what he received on Tuesday from the soldiers in the room was quiet soldiers and all other services was quiet professionalism. And that I took it as I watched the presentation. That rattled them a little bit. But that silence wasn't disrespect. It was restraint and a professional adherence to standards and the oath of office to not be political. And that was before he got into his very meandering bevy of issues. But what I'd like to relay is I've seen him speak twice before this, once on television when he. When he spoke to the crowd of 82nd Airborne soldiers at Fort Bragg that were recruited to be, you know, supporters. Actually, they were said, we are supporters. We want to be close to him. And it turned into a mob scene, and it was anathema to everything that we would want in our professional military. The second time I saw him in person was at the West Point graduation this last May. A thousand incoming lieutenants sitting in front of him. And his speech to them was similar to the one that he gave to the generals and admirals and sergeants majors yesterday. It was meandering. It was insulting. It was laced with political diatribes. It was showing how the past administration was horrible. Even got in at West Point to someone, a friend of his trophy wife. And what I watched in those young cadets was stone faces, a stoic look, no facial expressions, no rolling of the eyes, because they had been reminded of their professional duty. Now, I'm sure there were some in that audience, just like there was yesterday in the general audience, that support President Trump and the things that he's doing. But that's not what we do openly when we're wearing the uniform as part of the military. So I think you hit the atmospherics absolutely correctly. It was a tough crowd for him. And even going back to the West Point graduation, there were the graduates in the crowd and then there were people in the stands and there were segments of the stands, civilians cheering for him. Okay, they can do that. But the soldiers and the new lieutenants on the field could not and should not. And that's what I think riled him yesterday, because he had an audience of almost 1,000 people in that room who were not going to hoot and holler and raise their voices.
- [14:57]
Hugh Doherty
Our columnist David Rothkoff, who I know, you know, wrote, I think, somewhat provocatively and, you know, I think in search of. In search of reaction, perhaps, but he said that the generals, frankly, should have walked out. That would have been quite a gesture. Would that have been wise?
- [15:16]
General Mark Hertling
No, not at all. That would have shown their unprofessionalism. And I mean, even though he offered them that opportunity, if there's anybody in that audience that's thinking of resigning because they can't follow legal orders, then they resign later on. They don't do it in a public display of walking out on the president of the United States. There is the difference between the respect toward the office of the president and the person itself. And all of the people in that room have a deep respect for their commander in chief and the office they sometimes may not see eye to eye. And certainly that was the case yesterday with the actual person.
- [16:00]
Hugh Doherty
I just wanted to get into one of the substantive points that he talked about, and I think it's the one that's resonated most, was his discussion, his idea of let's train our troops in what he called dangerous cities. Many people, I think, might generally say, well, maybe these cities are dangerous. The National Guard seems to be doing a good job in D.C. but spell out you commanded troops in real and actual danger. What are the dangers? Why is, why is the success of the American military over the last 250 years predicated on not being used in that way?
- [16:41]
General Mark Hertling
Well, it's because it's the difference between a police force and a military force. And first of all, soldiers, and I'll use that generic term for all the services, soldiers do not get any training on police activities other than those who are going to be military police men and women. So you're putting an infantryman, a tanker, a truck driver in front of America's people. And that would be like saying, you or I could go out and arrest people and quell riots and do all those kind of things. The military does have for its force a mission called support for civilian authorities. If manpower is needed, certainly military forces can go to an area and protect guard buildings, put up fences, do the kind of things that you need a lot of people to do. But breaking that, that razor's edge into policing activities again is contrary to the Constitution and contrary to our laws. So it shouldn't be done. But what I heard the President say yesterday was an implied remark that he was telling everyone in that room is be prepared to do that. And that only happens once an insurrection occurs, like during the Civil War. So unless he's prepared to stoke that kind of insurrection by further dividing the American people and it turns to violence. Soldiers are the means of last resort for any kind of police activity, primarily because they're not trained to do things like that and secondarily because it's against the law.
- [18:31]
Hugh Doherty
You were in command of troops in many different situations. How would you deal with that order if it was to come to you? And what is going to be going through the heads of all those generals and admirals, I should say, when they heard that Imply. Implication.
- [18:51]
General Mark Hertling
Yeah. I believe that each one of them walked out of that room yesterday doing a personal analysis of what does this mean for me. And I know for a fact that there's talk inside the military ranks of what is the best way to disobey an unlawful order. How do you do that? And especially now given the recent Supreme Court ruling which holds the President immune from criminal acts, but the people he's ordering to do these things are subject to those criminal violations. So how do you say no? Especially if the staff judge advocate, the lawyer chain of command has been disrupted, that the military chain of command from civilian to military leaders has been co opted. It was obvious to me in Secretary Hexess speech that he also is all for doing whatever the President orders him to do. And that breaks the boundaries of what two previous Secretary of defenses, both Mattis and Esper, in the first term, when they were ordered to do illegal things, they spoke for the force and said we don't do that. And it also goes back, Hugh, truthfully to the Bush administration. When there was, and I was in the room when this was happening, when there was conversation about using waterboarding in Iraq and the military commanders and the Secretary of Defense said we don't do that. Get somebody else. So that mission was actually shuttled over to the CIA to establish to set up the torture sites. And I'm glad that happened because it would have been a violation of land warfare by my read of the legal implications of it.
- [20:40]
Hugh Doherty
General, Let me just hold you there for a second so we can hear from our sponsors. This episode is brought to you by Royal Kingdom, the visually stunning Match 3 puzzle adventure. I first tried Royal Kingdom when I was waiting for a coffee and suddenly I was whisked away into this fun, story driven world with a king, a princess, and even a slightly anxious Grand Duke who's just trying to keep things together, but which I might resonate a bit with. The story's immersive equal parts charming and clever. What do I love most? Royal Kingdom's beautifully animated scenes that make you laugh out loud. Royal Kingdom is smart, seamless, and crucially ad free and no wifi required. So it's perfect for those quick in between moments we all have. So if you're looking for a fun and adventurous escape, download Royal Kingdom now. It's free on the App Store or Google Play. Try Royal Kingdom today.
- [21:40]
General Mark Hertling
Would you guys consider anything less than a championship to be a failure from this year? I wouldn't say anything is a failure, especially because we all grow every day.
- [21:50]
Hugh Doherty
Obviously the goal is a championship.
- [21:52]
General Mark Hertling
There's no doubt in that. And that's the goal. We want to win a championship. I'm Kristina Williams, host of the podcast.
- [21:58]
Hugh Doherty
In case you missed it with Christmas.
- [22:00]
General Mark Hertling
Christina Williams the WNBA playoffs are here and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout players to the behind the scenes moments you.
- [22:09]
Hugh Doherty
Won'T find anywhere else. It's really, really hard to be the champions, but we have to remember how it feels and embrace the new challenge that we have for all the biggest.
- [22:18]
General Mark Hertling
Stories in women's basketball, plus exclusive interviews with the game's brightest stars.
- [22:23]
Hugh Doherty
So to be here, I think it's.
- [22:24]
General Mark Hertling
One that we definitely don't take for granted.
- [22:26]
Hugh Doherty
But we also know, you know, that's just one stop along the way and we're hoping to, you know, make it run.
- [22:31]
General Mark Hertling
So listen to In Case youe Missed it with Christina Williams, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and entertainment on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [22:42]
Hugh Doherty
Hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I don't know if you've heard.
- [22:45]
General Mark Hertling
But Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores.
- [22:55]
Hugh Doherty
That means no small talk.
- [22:57]
General Mark Hertling
Crazy weather we're having.
- [22:58]
Hugh Doherty
No, it's not.
- [22:59]
General Mark Hertling
It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream.
- [23:02]
Hugh Doherty
Give it a try@minmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 per 3 month plan $15 per month equivalent required New customer offer first 3 months only then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com and now a next level.
- [23:14]
General Mark Hertling
Moment from AT&T business.
- [23:15]
Hugh Doherty
Say you've sent out a gigantic shipment.
- [23:17]
General Mark Hertling
Of pillows and they need to be there in time for International Sleep day. You've got AT and T5G so you're fully confident, but the vendor isn't responding. And International Sleep Day is tomorrow.
- [23:26]
Hugh Doherty
Luckily, AT&T 5G lets you deal with any issues with ease, so the pillows.
- [23:30]
General Mark Hertling
Will get delivered and everyone can sleep soundly, especially you.
- [23:34]
Hugh Doherty
AT&T 5G requires a compatible plan and device coverage not available everywhere.
- [23:38]
General Mark Hertling
Learn more@att.com 5G Network.
- [23:45]
Hugh Doherty
And we are back with General Mark Hertling. If you were back in uniform, how do you even begin to process that sort of what is the analysis going to be like for those generals? Because as you say, in previous times, the issue of unlawful orders has stopped at the point of civilian command. But bringing it down into the chain of military command, is there a precedent for this? Have, has this, is this something that people have grappled with before, or are we in new territory?
- [24:22]
General Mark Hertling
No, I don't think we're in new territory other than the fact that this is extremely abnormal and the consequences are greater. I've had a couple of instances in my career where I've had to go to my bosses and say, hey, I was just issued this order. I think it's either illegal or immoral and I think we need to talk about that. And I usually have my staff judge advocate standing right next to me to give me the legal implications, although most commanders at senior ranks have legal training certainly to take care of their commands. But in each one of those cases, and I think looking back, I think I did it three times in each one of those cases, my bosses, higher ranking officials took my input, said, yeah, you're probably right, this is illegal, let's change this order. I'm not sure we're going to get the same kind of action from the current civilian chain of command in both the White House and the Department of Defense.
- [25:22]
Hugh Doherty
I want to turn to one of the more kind of bizarre aspects of this Trump address was his perhaps understanding of the military or certainly his approach to it. He talked about how he'd been a fan of of a documentary series called War at Sea, which for those who don't Know, I had to check. I will confess. It was made in 1953, 1954. It was, of course, black and white at the time. And it was about the US Navy's success in World War II and particularly focused, I believe, on battleships, which were, of course, you know, part of the US Navy's success in World War II was down to battleships. And Trump went on about how that was what the military should be like. Now you've a distinguished career commanding many aspects of the military. I'll just put this bluntly. Is it anything like that? Is it anything like an NBC documentary from daytime TV in the 50s?
- [26:20]
General Mark Hertling
Hugh, I think I would probably not surprise you if I said there's an awful lot of people sitting in the corner chair of a bar on a stool somewhere who have watched a lot of Bands of Brothers or World War II documentaries, who become experts at the military and sometimes even proclaim to the young women nearby that they are special operators or special forces, when they would never identify with that.
- [26:44]
Hugh Doherty
I hope, I hope they're, I hope they wear beards, because they always wear beards. That's the tail. That's what, that's what the secretary.
- [26:50]
General Mark Hertling
Either that or a CIA agent, one of the two. But, you know, it's interesting even what both Secretary Hegseth and President Trump have said in the past about their heroes from the war, and it was represent, from the past wars, and it was represented in the stage they were standing on. I mean, I don't think it was a mistake. Somebody asked for that giant flag to be behind the podium because it was representative of the earth. Early segments of the Patton movie. And President Trump has said on numerous occasions that he loves that movie. Okay, great. But also even Secretary Hegsek, who, who, you know, he, he disrespected three general officers, Corelli and Millie, and there was one other, and I can't remember who the other one was. And then put in their place Schwarzkopf, MacArthur and Patton.
- [27:50]
Hugh Doherty
Right.
- [27:50]
General Mark Hertling
Well, I mean, all, all generals have flaws. Don't get me wrong. Patton, when you go into their history, was not a very good leader in terms, he was a very good commander and a war fighter. He was not a very good leader. MacArthur actually rebelled against the president. So I'm wondering how Trump would feel if, if the, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs or some combatant commander did something that he wouldn't want to do. So it's a real paucity of information on the things that they're talking about. And there was even a couple of times during the Secretary's speech yesterday where I thought he's talking at this from the standpoint of an army lieutenant. He's not even concerned considering the Air Force, the Navy, the Marines as part of this force. It's all directed to what his experience was in the Army. And that was really one of the things that I think alerted some people when he was nominated for the secretary of Defense job. He didn't have the business acumen to run an organization the size of the Department of Defense, and he didn't have the experience with the services. So you all of that came through, and it comes through in spades with President Trump talking about battleships being the great surface fleet of the U.S. navy. And any Navy guy will explain to you why that's not such a good idea today.
- [29:20]
Hugh Doherty
And also objecting to the shape of stealth ships because he's an aesthetics guy, which I assume we're going to see. See our Navy painted in gold after that, I don't know. But more seriously, one of the, you know, you talked about being in Russia, you commanded the army in Europe. What are people, first of all, what are people who are our allies thinking about this? What did they take? What was the takeaway in Europe?
- [29:50]
General Mark Hertling
I had, I won't go into the details, but I had several of my former counterparts in other militaries in Europe that I worked very closely with. We continue to stay in contact. And I got several text messages and emails yesterday asking me about what I thought this was doing to the US Military. And on at least two of the two occasions, those retired generals from foreign allied forces said to me, I don't understand why this is happening, given how much respect we have for the capabilities of the U.S. military, specifically the U.S. army, who they had dealt with. Why is this even going on? We know the quality and the capability of your soldiers and your leaders, and you have taught us things. Why would they be going after you now on what seemingly to them are somewhat silly and mundane issues as opposed to national strategy or national security strategy?
- [30:53]
Hugh Doherty
And the flip side, what do you think is being thought in the Kremlin? What's Putin's general staff looking at this.
- [31:01]
General Mark Hertling
And thinking, Well, I think instead of saying someone, a general staff like Gerasimov saying the US Military is in bad shape, shape, look, they have to have their ass chewed. I think they are saying that their strategy of the continued attempt to help divide the people of the US against themselves and against their institution is working pretty well. I mean, I'll tell you, quite frankly, I was on the air several times yesterday on different cable channels. And you know what I could tell is the Russian bots are in full force in terms of trying to expand on the messaging that there are a lot of people that think this is crazy and it just shows how screwed up the US Is and they're a waning society and things like that. So to answer your question in a shorter sentence, they are loving this because it falls right into what their strategy is.
- [32:04]
Hugh Doherty
General, we have got to take a commercial break and we will be right back.
- [32:12]
General Mark Hertling
Would you guys consider anything less than a championship to be a failure from this year? I wouldn't say anything is a failure, especially because we all grow every day.
- [32:21]
Hugh Doherty
Obviously the goal is a championship.
- [32:23]
General Mark Hertling
That's there's no doubt in that. And that's the goal. We want to win a championship.
- [32:27]
Hugh Doherty
I'm precise.
- [32:28]
General Mark Hertling
Christina Williams, Host of the Podcast in.
- [32:30]
Hugh Doherty
Case you missed it with Christina Williams.
- [32:32]
General Mark Hertling
The WNBA playoffs are here and I've got the inside scoop on everything from key matchups and standout players to the behind the scenes moments you won't find anywhere else.
- [32:42]
Hugh Doherty
It's really, really hard to be the champions, but we have to remember how it feels and embrace the new challenge that we have for all the biggest.
- [32:49]
General Mark Hertling
Stories in women's basketball, plus exclusive interviews with the game's brightest star.
- [32:54]
Hugh Doherty
So to be here, I think it's.
- [32:55]
General Mark Hertling
One that we definitely don't take for granted.
- [32:57]
Hugh Doherty
But we also know, you know, that's just one stop along the way and we're hoping to, you know, make it run.
- [33:02]
General Mark Hertling
So listen to In Case youe Missed it with Christina Williams, an iHeart woman sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and entertainment on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [33:13]
Hugh Doherty
Hey, Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I don't know if you've heard.
- [33:16]
General Mark Hertling
But Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores.
- [33:26]
Hugh Doherty
That means no small talk.
- [33:28]
General Mark Hertling
Crazy weather we're having.
- [33:29]
Hugh Doherty
No, it's not.
- [33:30]
General Mark Hertling
It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream.
- [33:33]
Hugh Doherty
Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 per three month plan $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.
- [33:43]
General Mark Hertling
See mintmobile.com say hello to Mia.
- [33:45]
Hugh Doherty
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- [34:00]
General Mark Hertling
What's your secret for happy pets and happy clients?
- [34:03]
Hugh Doherty
A fresh cut, a friendly vibe and a well placed podcast ad.
- [34:07]
General Mark Hertling
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- [34:18]
Hugh Doherty
And here we are back with General Mark Hertling. One of the developments that happened in the last couple of days that I imagine the Russians maybe aren't welcoming, but Europe is now talking about having its own drone defence system. They're calling it a drone wall because of incursions that have been taking place along the eastern borders of Poland, of of Estonia, possibly into Danish airspace. That seems like they wouldn't have been saying that in the past. This would have been something that would have been at the very least led or in cooperation with the United States. Could you just talk to what people who have spent careers cooperating with Europe and leading in Europe have? What view do they take of that when the Europeans feel they have to go out on their own?
- [35:13]
General Mark Hertling
When Hugh When I was the commander of US army in Europe, we used to have a twice yearly conference called the CEA in the Conference of European Armies. And every time we would get together with our counterparts, usually in our headquarters in Heidelberg. One time it was held in Italy, we'd have the 49 countries of Europe represented over a two or three day conference and we would talk about the requirements for our force to partner better to exercise on specific things. To really take the approach of one is much or the whole is much stronger than the sum of the parts. And that was our requirement. And I think today not only only are European allies doubting the civilian military connections within the US forces, but they're very concerned about the future strategy of US Forces in Europe. And I think part of this whole thing yesterday was a lead in to the potential of Secretary Hegseth issuing a national defense strategy that really reduces the focus on areas of the world where our partnerships are important and our threats are lively.
- [36:32]
Hugh Doherty
And that strategy which there have been reports that it's certainly known to be working on, there's a suggestion that it is going to be focused on the idea that threats are at home as much as they are or even more than they are abroad, which does not seem to comport with any reality that people would would recognize and also really de emphasizing that Russia is in any way a threat and possibly focusing on China only in the sense of Taiwan. I mean, you've obviously worked Very hard on a lot of those issues. What should we think are the real threats to American national security?
- [37:15]
General Mark Hertling
Yeah, you know, they're on a yearly basis. The DNI usually comes out with a threat composite to tell where the threats are. The last one that was produced in an unclassified form was 19 or 2024, in that it outlined all of our threats and it would take me too long to go into them, but the top 10 are not being addressed in the manner they should be by this current administration.
- [37:43]
Hugh Doherty
All right, General, I know that we are nearing the end of our time. I just want to say, can you give people some hope here? I mean, the American military is by far the most respected institution in the country. Something that the president didn't mention. He came tocame to those generals and he complained about the ratings or he crowed about the ratings the press have. He mocked the ratings that Congress have. He didn't mention that the top rated institution by a margin that even he would not be able to challenge as rigged is off the charts. Can you just give people some hope that there's.
- [38:21]
General Mark Hertling
Yeah. The hope I will give them, Hugh, is that yesterday's atmospheric showed it was a collective reminder of the professional culture of the military that transcends population politics. The professionalism of the people in that room and their discipline was on full display in the audience, if not on stage. I think that gives a great deal of hope to the future that this institution is bending a little bit. Our military institution is bending a bit because of some civilian leaders, but it's not breaking. And there's a culture in place that's going to withstand any kind of attempt to diminish the institution as a whole.
- [39:09]
Hugh Doherty
General, we hope that you're absolutely right in that verdict. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for taking the time and again, thank you for your service. And we hope that you'll come back and give us more of that insight because it's a fantastic opportunity to see what really happens inside the American military and not as described, apparently fat, bearded and woke.
- [39:33]
General Mark Hertling
Okay. All right. Thank you, Hugh. I appreciate being on with you.
- [39:36]
Hugh Doherty
Thank you. That was a great conversation with one of our most distinguished military leaders. And we couldn't bring you conversations like those without the support of our members. Thank you, especially to our B beast level members, Karen White, Heidi Riley, Connie Rutherford, Sharon Shipley, Andrea Hodel, and Free DC it couldn't be easier to become a member. And the perks are, as Trump might say, like you've never seen before. Don't forget to subscribe to our other podcast, Inside Trump's Head, where Michael Wolff and Joanna Coles explain what's really going on in that dark space which we all seem to inhabit. To keep up to date with what's happening at the Pentagon, what's happening at the White House? Who's shaving their beard? Who's struggling with the stairs? Please subscribe to the daily beast@dailybeast.com thank you to our producers Devin Rogerino and Anna Von Ousen and our editor Jesse Millward. And as the first lady almost certainly does not say, but Joanna always does be Beast Acast powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend.
- [40:47]
General Mark Hertling
Hello, Pablo Torre here, host of the Murrow Award winning and Peabody nominated show Pablo Torre Finds out from the Athletic, where we use journalism to investigate mysteries like whether the richest owner in sports helped fund a no show job for his NBA superstar. In other words, Kawhi Leonard got from aspiration a $28 million no show job.
- [41:08]
Hugh Doherty
Yeah, it's amazing. I'm honestly so jealous.
- [41:11]
General Mark Hertling
Or how our friend Action Bronson feels about covering his calves. When was the last time you wore pants? I don't. Probably 15 to 20 years. The last time I put pants on I had an accident three times a week. Follow us down the rabbit hole on Pablo Torre finds out.
- [41:29]
Hugh Doherty
Watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts.
- [41:36]
General Mark Hertling
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily Beast podcast@thedailybeast.com podcasts if you enjoyed this.
- [41:56]
Hugh Doherty
Episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber.
- [41:59]
General Mark Hertling
Subscribing is the best way to feed.
- [42:01]
Hugh Doherty
The beast and support all of your.
- [42:03]
General Mark Hertling
Podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to thedailybeast.com membership podcast and sign up today.