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- [00:00]
A
Mom, I saw Dylan's dad make dinner, like actually cook, and it was straight fire. He said it was Blue Apron assemble and bake. All the ingredients showed up pre chopped and he just laid it out on a baking sheet and no cap. Dinner was on the table in like 25 minutes. Apparently it's chef designed and it has like over 40 grams of protein. That's a lot, right?
- [00:20]
B
So maybe we try it.
- [00:21]
A
Just saying. You can be the next Dylan's dad.
- [00:23]
B
Blue Apron.
- [00:24]
A
Get 50% off your first two orders.
- [00:25]
B
Plus free shipping with code.
- [00:26]
A
Listen 50 terms and conditions apply. Visit blue apron.com terms for more.
- [00:32]
B
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Hey, it's Raj and Noah.
- [00:41]
A
And we're back with a new season of Am I Doing It Wrong? The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.
- [00:48]
B
Because we're still doing a lot of stuff wrong.
- [00:50]
A
But who isn't? That's why each week we're talking about the topics that we could all use a little helping hit with. Whether it's making new friends as an adult, managing our emotions, or even dreaming.
- [00:59]
B
We'll be talking to experts in their fields who are definitely doing things right. So the rest of us can be a bit wiser and a lot better equipped to handle whatever life throws at us.
- [01:08]
A
Subscribe now and listen to new episodes of Am I Doing It Wrong? Dropping every Thursday starting January 1st, wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:15]
B
And for the first time ever, we're gonna have full video episodes on YouTube. Because as long as there are things to get wrong, we're gonna be right here to help you do em better. Love y'. All. ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.
- [01:36]
A
The Epstein files are still dripping out.
- [01:39]
B
I mean, the Justice Department again has announced that they've released, what, 2% and 98% continues.
- [01:46]
A
There's another 5 million documents to come out, apparently.
- [01:49]
B
And I had spoken to people in the White House about the progression toward Venezuela and Greenland. But it was the recognition on Trump's part that he had these significant problems, including the fact that he has been unable to stem the Epstein disclosures and the demands for ever more information about what happened with specifically Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump.
- [02:19]
A
Michael, Joanna, we have a new limerick from Garfried, although Garfried has yet to identify himself. We got a flurry of comments this this week. A flurry. Not a flurry, a snowstorm of comments. A Lot of people liking our Limerick Laureate. There once was a ruler named.
- [02:37]
B
And if you don't know, by the way, we have a commenter who regularly sends us limericks after each. Each. Each show we get a limerick about us, about Donald Trump, about Jeffrey Epstein. It's the world converges on these limericks.
- [02:57]
A
The world converges. And we should remind people, just in case Garfried is in New York and wants to come to see us live at the 92nd Street. Why next Tuesday? No, next Thursday. Or is it next Wednesday?
- [03:12]
B
Next Wednesday.
- [03:12]
A
It's next Wednesday.
- [03:14]
B
Good try. On every day of the week.
- [03:16]
A
Okay. And it's at 8 o'. Clock. Alarmingly. I mean, we really are like a proper show. Anyway, Garfried, if you are new, that is.
- [03:23]
B
Curtain goes up at 8:00'. Clock.
- [03:25]
A
The curtain goes up at 8:00'.
- [03:26]
B
Clock. And behind the curtain is us is.
- [03:30]
A
Us, the besuited Michael Wolff. Anyway, there once was a ruler named Trump who thought every scandal must play when the numbers looked sour he'd reach for raw power Till friends turned to blame by next day. Thank you, Garfried. Okay, we may now proceed with our extensive agenda for today's podcast. Where should we begin, Michael?
- [03:54]
B
And if anyone else wants to try their Hamlet hand at Limerick's, we're here.
- [03:59]
A
That's such a Freudian slim. Did you just say Hamlet?
- [04:03]
B
I did not, but I think you did, actually.
- [04:06]
A
Whatever. Anyway, where are we going to begin? We have a long agenda, but as I'm sure people can probably guess from hearing us, sometimes we veer wildly from the agenda that we have set ourselves. But I tend to think of you as certainly the best from my point of view, media writer or writer about media out there. And of course, now you've turned your attention to Trump, but now Trump is trying to control the media, too.
- [04:38]
B
Yeah, no, and I think maybe we should put that in the context of he's trying to control Venezuela, he's trying to control Greenland, he's trying to control the Department of Justice, he's trying to control the Fed Reserve, he's trying to control any number of blue cities in America. But we should not forget that maybe the most fundamental to him is to control the media, which he has been doing. I mean, he's been. He's sued several of the networks, he sued the New York Times, he sued the Wall Street Journal. But in this interesting BBC, too. Yes, exactly. In this interesting case with cbs, he is actually moving to kind of take it over. And he's using the stalking horse, billionaire Larry Ellison, who's a Trump supporter. And he has this, he's inserted himself because Larry Ellison, the billionaire, the second richest man in the world wanted to make his son a media mogul. And in order to do this he had to buy Paramount, which included CBS and MTV and Paramount Pictures. And in order to do that he needed Trump's approval. And so in order to get Trump's approval, he basically said well, we will, we are going to, I don't know, you know, we're going to make, we're going to make CBS News over into something that you like. And that includes 60 Minutes. And Trump has been at odds with 60 Minutes and CBS News of course. So they hired a woman by the name of Bari Weiss. And Bari Weiss has had no television experience but she was locate her she was kind of the most right wing person in the traditional media. So she's not a, she's not a maga person in Magaville. She's in, in the media community, but the most right wing person in it.
- [06:59]
A
She was an iconoclastic columnist at the New York Times. Right?
- [07:04]
B
Well she iconoclastic she was their designated anti woke columnist. That was a difficult role because the New York Times is a very woke place. And it didn't, she was unhappy. It didn't last long. So then she be then she left and then she started something called the Free Press.
- [07:23]
A
Ok, can we just, let's just remind people that when she resigned she referred to her resignation letter as the resignation letter. That was her heard around the world.
- [07:35]
B
Yes, I'm very, she's, she believes her mission is. Yes, yes.
- [07:43]
A
I think she has a strong sense.
- [07:44]
B
Of self to save America and to save Israel. And but at any rate, she signed on to see now now her mission is to save cbs.
- [07:57]
A
Okay. And she started a newsletter called the Free Press which I thought had a lot of good writing in it and reminded me very much actually of the Brit Spectator sort of condensed into a newsletter and she co founded it with her wife Nellie Bowles, who was also a reporter for the New York Times. Very good writer.
- [08:16]
B
And Nellie Bowles, it's just interesting to point out, is Tucker Carlson's cousin.
- [08:21]
A
Interesting I did not know that. And a former girlfriend of Cara Swisher because I remember going out for dinner with them once in San Francisco and we had such a good evening and I thought they were for the long haul but I was wrong. I was wrong.
- [08:36]
B
Curious. I there's another girlfriend of Kara Swisher's who I thought was the in for the long haul, but I was wrong.
- [08:45]
A
Well, anyway, Cara has a. Has. Well, Cara's got four children, which I'm so impressed by. She's the only woman I know that's gone from a first marriage with two kids to a second marriage with two kids. Because women, for the most part, don't do that. Men, of course, do that all the time. You being one of them.
- [09:04]
B
I being one of them, yes.
- [09:05]
A
Anyway, we've already departed from our agenda.
- [09:08]
B
But let's come back because I think that this is really interesting. Trump is taking over. Has this. CBS and the Associated Properties have essentially given Donald Trump a kind of carte blanche. They are going to be, at the very least, not nice to Donald Trump. And when you're nice to Donald Trump and when you give him this kind of thing, he just takes more and more. He will demand more and more.
- [09:41]
A
And let's remind everybody that he's canceled or he's canceled. They canceled. Cbs, canceled the Stephen Colbert show, and now they're remaking the evening news. Bari Weiss spiked a piece about the Ecotor jail in El Salvador, which was due to run on 60 minutes, having apparently given it the okay on Thursday. And then on Friday, she decided to put it to reschedule it because it didn't have enough comment from the government in it. And then, of course, it went out in Canada. So it's already out there online. So the whole thing was a debacle.
- [10:18]
B
Right? Well, she's made a series of. Of rookie missteps in this job, but of course, she has no television experience.
- [10:27]
A
And it's one of those jobs that probably looks easier from the outside and then you get to do the job and you realize it's incredibly complicated. We could talk, and perhaps we should talk about the interview that Tony De Coppel did with President Trump on Tuesday, which also included a rookie mistake, which was you couldn't hear the interview. They were doing it on the factory floor and at, I think, Ford, and you could only hear the noise of the engines. And a lot of CBS listeners and viewers are older and I'm sure have issues with their hearing. I have no issues with my hearing. I have 2020 hearing or whatever the expression is, because I just had my ears tested and I couldn't hear what they were saying. They were both shouting at each other above the roar of the cars being made. I mean, such a rookie mistake.
- [11:15]
B
Mr. President, thank you very much for doing this. We really appreciate it. We're standing here on an active Ford assembly line, a little bit of loud, incredible symbol of American manufacturing power. And I got A lot of questions about it, but I actually want to start overseas with Iran. Americans woke up this morning and they saw that you said help is on the way. Well, then. And then she hired this guy, Tony decouple, who no one has ever heard of. She hired.
- [11:42]
A
I'd heard of Tony decouple. I'm a Tony decopol.
- [11:45]
B
I once met him at a dinner party at your house. But I didn't know who he was then and I still didn't know who he was after that. But she hired him to be the CBS News anchor and that was an interesting hire because, I mean, network news has always had this conceit that its anchors are above politics or separate from politics or they're objective. So this is the first network anchor who got hired really precisely for his politics. And his politics is he's been a very, a forward pro Israel supporter, as is Bari Weiss, as are the Ellisons.
- [12:32]
A
Well, I think what happened was she took him from the morning show, right. He was on the CBS Morning show with Gayle King and got into what turned out to be a controversial conversation with Ta Nehisi Coates about Israel. And that elevated him in certain people's eyes and made him anti.
- [12:53]
B
Well, it defined him. And that's why he got this job. I mean, it moves directly from one to the other. He's on the. He proclaimed himself on this agenda and now he was put into this spot because of this, because of his agenda and of the network's agenda at this point. At this point. So this has never really been done before, although you can certainly argue that various network personalities have an agenda. They just kept it secret. His is not secret. But that's the point. We've broken through a wall here. Network news now has a political agenda. It is not that much different from, in that respect, from Fox. And you could call this the Foxification of CBS News. I think it's a perfectly.
- [13:52]
A
The Foxification of CBS News. Wow. And he's had a fairly bumpy start. I mean, he made the remarkable claim that he was going to be more transparent than Walter Cronkite. I always say concrete Cronkite, which is a bit, bit of a claim. And it's the sort of claim you might want to make after you've been there a year and your ratings are doing well. It's not.
- [14:18]
B
I mean, he made a beginning, a series of claims like the Fox claims we're fair and balanced. Well, obviously they're not. That's, that's, that's all wink, wink. And he was Kind of wink, wink, too. I'm going to give you news in a different way than you've ever gotten it. And it functionally is a cover that we're doing this. We have a specific agenda here, and the most specific agenda is that we have an audience of one. Now, we should also point out the context here is that having that Larry Ellison, having bought his son a cbs, is now trying to buy his son Warner Brothers Discovery, which will then include, among, among other things, cnn. So this is a pretty substantial grab under the Trump umbrella.
- [15:15]
A
Well, I know you've written a substack about it. When is your substack being published, Michael?
- [15:19]
B
Today.
- [15:20]
A
Oh, it's been published today. Okay. I was going to read, I was going to read one thing, which is just to reinforce the point you made about Tony decouple being hired as a dedicated pro Israel voice. In other words, Weiss was appointing someone as the evening news anchor who was defined whether he wanted to be defined that way or not, which I'm sure he probably didn't, by his politics. This defies the most basic conceit of network news, that anchors and correspondents were outside of or above or indifferent to or separate from their politics in network news. Weiss's De Copple choice has the political bumper sticker on his head and it counts for a revolution. So the Foxification of CBS News revolution. And Megyn Kelly has now weighed in. And I would have thought Megyn Kelly would approve of the Foxification of CBS News, but she doesn't approve of Tony De Copple, who. Who somewhat strangely, actually, because I am a Tony decouple fan. But he started crying when they did a show from Miami because it reminded him of his childhood. And as I've remarked to you occasionally, I haven't cried for the last 20 years. So I find crying slightly odd. But Tony was moved by the fact that he was in Miami. And so Megyn Kelly is now calling him Topra de Copel. CBS Evening News is officially launched with its new Anchorage Topra Doka pool. That's what I call him because he's crying and constantly trying to therapize us through the news. Like, I, I've, I figured it out. So like Barry is, she's an out lesbian and she's in a marriage to another.
- [17:11]
B
I knew this is where you were.
- [17:12]
A
Going, kids and so on. I'm saying this is a lesbian's idea of what women want. Like, he's sweet, he's soft. Like, this is what this is going to sell.
- [17:21]
B
No, no, no, no, no, no.
- [17:22]
A
No, we, we want someone with balls, with a spine. Someone who will protect us. Somebody who, like when the burglar comes, will be the first out the door. They won't be hiding behind us. Like as we call it in my family, first defender. Whenever Doug and I go on the road, whether it's like a hotel or like a rental, he knows he has to be first defender. And he's perfectly fine in that role.
- [17:45]
B
So it's not only that Tony decouple is a, is a crier that she objects, she also objects to the fact that Bari Weiss is a lesbian. Now, curiously, I can tell you that Barry Weiss also had a long term affair with a man, with Bret Stephens, the other kind of anti woke conservative on the New York Times. So I think Barry is, I think she's open to all experiences, apparently.
- [18:21]
A
Well, I don't know how it's going to impact the ratings of CBS News and I suspect that in the end these things come down to money and they come down to ratings.
- [18:33]
B
Well, I don't, I don't know. I mean, I suspect this comes down to getting CNN and getting Warner's. This is a, this is a, you know, there are several agendas here and the, and the most forward agenda is the corporate agenda. We want to accomplish this merger, we can only accomplish this merger. And Warner Brothers Discovery has actually agreed to a merger with Netflix. And in order for the Ellisons and Paramount, CBS or whatever the company is called now to get Warner Brothers Discovery, they need the favor of Donald Trump.
- [19:17]
A
Right. But if you're someone as ambitious and hitherto as successful as Barry Weiss, you are not going to want to sit over the decline of CBS News. It's just not in her personality, I don't think to sit there as a stooge for David Ellison until the Paramount, Netflix, Warner Brothers of it all is.
- [19:37]
B
I think that ship has actually sailed. I mean, CBS News is going to, it has declined for a generation, will continue to decline. It will decline faster than the other networks, which are also in decline, which is. And, and meanwhile, as they look toward toward acquiring cnn, the cable is also in decline. So why Bari Weiss would do this? Leave the Free Press, you know, a growing, a growing business, a new business, a business.
- [20:17]
A
I'm not sure she has left it. Right. Isn't she co CE it still.
- [20:21]
B
Well, that would read to me as a big sign. She has left it. She has to run. She is doing this job, a very, very substantial job, which is an actually undoable job. And the thing about undoable jobs is they really require more time than the doable jobs. So it's a television thing. People are yet despite all the evidence, you know, enthralled by television because it smacks of power and fame and influence, none of which, all of which is right at this moment going out the door.
- [21:06]
A
No, it's clearly draining away. But CBS still has a romance and a grip on America as an institution to be prime.
- [21:16]
B
It's completely true. It has no grip on America at all. They could care less. They haven't watched, watched CBS Evening News in years and years and years. And the people who do still, the 4 million people or so who tune in every night are, you know, have, you know, dementia. I mean, it's just not. These are businesses, these are businesses from some other era.
- [21:43]
A
So are none of David Ellison's friends saying to him, geez, David, what are you doing at CBS News? Are they all just saying, we can't wait for you to take over Warner Brothers?
- [21:54]
B
David Ellison does not care about CBS News. He would hate that.
- [21:58]
A
But he cares about what other people think of him. Right? Doesn't he care about what? I don't think.
- [22:03]
B
I mean, David Ellison cares about making entertainment products, movies, movie studios. He wants. Now he doesn't really want to buy cnn, but he wants to buy hbo, which comes with, with cnn. I mean, he wants to be a Hollywood guy, he does not want to be a news guy. Now you can also say, why would he want to be a Hollywood guy? Because that business is going away too. But his father is the second richest man in the world. What else is he going to do?
- [22:31]
A
I mean, why not own the biggest streaming business in the world if they want to go up against Netflix? Right. And buying Warner Brothers would allow them to do that.
- [22:39]
B
You know, your father is the second richest man. It doesn't matter.
- [22:43]
A
Okay?
- [22:44]
B
And so we're in this other phase of the media world. The media is being taken over. I mean, you know, serious money minded business people don't really want the media. The people who want to own the media are, as they say, non economic players. That is vanity players.
- [23:06]
A
Okay, so inside Trump's head, what's going on here? He just thinks, great, that's another one. We're going to have the Foxification of CBS News to me and Barry Weiss is the vehicle for that.
- [23:18]
B
Yeah, I mean Trump is, I want to be the star, I want to be the star of all media. How am I going to be the star of all media? I'm going to control media. Because the alternative is that they're Going to hate on me constantly. So where's the pressure point? He found the pressure point. God knows. He always finds the, the pressure.
- [23:41]
A
He always finds the pressure point.
- [23:42]
B
And this pressure point is you can't do a deal. You, the Ellison family, David Ellison, Young Ellison cannot become a media mogul without paying homage to Donald Trump. That's it.
- [23:57]
A
Okay, so we should track CBS ratings on the news. And it's probably worth pointing out, as I think you actually do, maybe you told me this and it was in your subsequent, that CBS has gone through six presidents of news in six years.
- [24:14]
B
Oh, yeah. Well, that's the other thing is that these television news organizations are very fraught places. So the idea that Bari Weiss can survive CBS News is a, on her part, a monumental leap of faith.
- [24:35]
A
Well, perhaps Donald Trump will become acting president of CBS News as he is acting president of Venezuela and clearly wants to be acting president of Cuba, Colombia and Greenland, where there is now an armada sailing from Europe to protect Greenland. I mean, not since Eric the Red have we seen the idea of an invention of an invasion like this. It's incredible.
- [25:07]
B
I mean, the Greenlanders and the Danes showed up in Washington yesterday and that did not sound like that was a good meeting for anyone.
- [25:23]
A
Well, it might have been a good meeting for Donald Trump. Right. I mean, I know it was Marco and JD Vance who took the meeting, but he's made it very clear he wants Greenland.
- [25:32]
B
Well, yeah, I'm not sure because the idea. Well, I don't know. I was just going to say the idea of him invading Greenland is preposterous. But, but of course, why not? You know, I mean, essentially he's, the pattern is he's looking for, he's looking for instances where he can demonstrate his power and American dominance in which no one is going to be killed. I mean, I think that is the premise in each situation and the premise of Iran, and we should talk about that too. And he could, you could invade Greenland and I think you could be reasonably certain that whatever security forces exist in Greenland, they're not going to shoot American soldiers.
- [26:28]
A
Well, what do we think about whether or not, I mean, we're recording this on Thursday morning. We have no sense of whether or not America is going to intervene in Iran or not. At the moment. Donald Trump put out a truth social encouraging people to keep protesting. And it's hard to even imagine how brave the people are protesting now. At least 3,000 people dead. Possibly up to reports are saying up to 20,000 people dead. I mean, the images of the body bags with Blood seeping out of them are just absolutely horrifying.
- [27:03]
B
Well, let's go back to the point. His original statement was that if the Iranian authorities, the mullahs, started to kill protesters, then we were going to do something big.
- [27:17]
A
Yeah. He said, help is on the way. Help.
- [27:21]
B
We were going. So he a, encouraged Iranian citizens to continue to protest and B, explicitly said, we will come to your aid. We will protect you. Okay. Obviously that, that, that did not happen, because how would it happen? What was he going to do? He was going to invade, but was. That was completely unclear. And again, one of those things that I'm sure was off the cuff. Then yesterday he, he announced that they weren't killing people anymore. That. Well, let me step, step back. Then there was the moment when they had, they arrested someone and they appeared ready to execute.
- [28:09]
A
Right. They said they were going to start executing protesters and they had One young man, 26 years old, and they said they were going to give him death by hanging.
- [28:16]
B
Right. So then, so Trump objected to that and said there were going to going to be big conseque yesterday. Then he announced that they were no longer killing people in Iran. That was over. We solved that problem. What that seems to mean is that the Iranian authorities decided not yesterday to execute this one person. So there is no evidence that the widespread killing of protesters has stopped. And for good reason. The, the only thing that is keeping the mullahs in power is the ability, is their willingness to keep shooting protesters. As soon as that happens that they stop shooting protesters, the protests will grow and grow and grow until they can. The mullahs can no longer effectively run Iran and then they're, they're out of power. Which is exactly what happened in 1979 when the Iranians got rid of the.
- [29:23]
A
Shah who came to America.
- [29:26]
B
And that succeeded. That protest succeeded because the Shah didn't shoot the protesters. I mean, it's the most basic lesson in Iranian, modern Iranian history. You gotta shoot the protesters or they're gonna run you out of office.
- [29:42]
A
Well, and interestingly, it was a spokesperson from the Iranian government or Iranian government who appeared on Fox News yesterday saying, we're not going to do, we're not going to execute anybody. We're not going to execute anybody. So again, learning that if you want to communicate directly with Donald Trump, you do it via Fox News.
- [30:01]
B
Yeah. You know, and it's this other thing that we've now had this pronouncement about what's going on there, which is wholly a Trump pronouncement. It doesn't really align with reality. Oh, yeah, no, they're not killing anybody. All, all problems are, are solved. Now there's some speculation that, that he's saying this and he will invade tomorrow or do something tomorrow. I don't, I don't know. And again, because we are in this, it's, it's like that the Donald Trump thing trusts me, I'm going to make up reality to whatever I want it to be. We now run Venezuela, although we don't run Venezuela. We run the oil business in Venezuela, although no one wants the Venezuelan oil. I mean, Greenland, you know, and then is we're going to take over Greenland. We need Greenland. We need it. Why? There's no why there. It's actually why not. Because we can.
- [31:11]
A
Well, and because he thinks it's going to be easy. Right? I think that's the other thing that he picks on soft targets here.
- [31:16]
B
Yeah. Well, I think because it's not only going to be easy, it's not going to be anything. It's just going to be Donald Trump saying that we have done this because he wanted to do it and then nothing changes.
- [31:29]
A
Although it does feel like the Europeans have actually called his bluff by sending troops from Europe to Greenland to protect Greenland.
- [31:37]
B
But you cannot call, you can't call the bluff if he doesn't want it called. Those troops are never going to attack American soldiers. I mean, what this means for the future of NATO, not to mention the entire world order? No idea. I mean, I think that, that the Europeans and the Danes and the people of Greenland will figure out how to make that mean nothing. And because there will be a recognition that it doesn't mean anything.
- [32:13]
A
Right?
- [32:14]
B
That the takeover of Greenland is just Donald Trump posturing, just Donald Trump projecting reality as he wants. But it doesn't really affect anything. It doesn't change anything.
- [32:27]
A
Except it may change the internal politics of Denmark. There's an election this year and the premier of Denmark may get thrown out. I mean, very difficult to know how to negotiate this from the Danish point of view. And the Greenlanders love Americans. They don't like Donald Trump, but they love America. And of course they don't want to go to war with America. Anyway, it's fascinating. And what you see is this sort of 79 year old man just throwing, well, just starting fires absolutely everywhere. Now we've got Minneapolis on fire again. That seems a very unfortunate situation.
- [33:04]
B
No, and I think, and I think that's one of the things he wants to distract from. You know, Minneapolis has ground zero. It's been ground zero before. And it's an interesting place. Why Minneapolis is a good question. Because it's unexpected. But. But this is not going to go away for Donald Trump. His internal police force ice, you know, shot a woman in cold blood. And it's curious to hear these people out there because they've sent out this whole, you know, this whole. What do you call these people, this whole cast of surrogates to say, oh, I mean, it's preposterous. You know, the car, we can all see this, the car she was going to run over this ICE agent. This car is moving at what, you.
- [33:57]
A
Know, you know, three miles an hour, wheels are turned in the other direction.
- [34:01]
B
Two miles an hour, they're yelling at her. Everybody is well.
- [34:07]
A
And also, there's nothing more nerve wracking than when you're trying to drive a car, you're trying to get out of the way. You know, people get very stressed in cars, and I'm assuming that's what happened to her. She had everybody shouting at her. She's kind of stuck. It's a snowy road. She's trying to pull out in a Honda Pilot.
- [34:22]
B
And then they shoot her just through the window.
- [34:25]
A
And three shots, three shots. Why not? Shoot the tire? Shoot the tire of the car.
- [34:30]
B
And a word from our sponsors.
- [34:34]
A
Lunch was great, but this traffic is awful. Can we stop at a bathroom? Are you all right? I keep having stomach issues after eating, like diarrhea, gas and bloating, abdom, abdominal pain, and sometimes oily stools. Sound familiar? Those stomach issues may actually be a pancreas issue called exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, or epi.
- [34:53]
B
Creon pancrelipase may help manage epi.
- [34:57]
A
Creon is a prescription medicine used to.
- [34:59]
B
Treat people who can't digest food normally.
- [35:00]
A
Because their pancreas doesn't make enough enzymes.
- [35:03]
B
Creon may increase your chance of fibrosing colonopathy, a rare bowel disorder. Tell your doctor if you have a history of intestinal blockage or scarring or thickening of your bowel wall, if you are allergic to pork, or if you have gout, kidney problems, or worsening of painful swollen joints. Call your doctor if you have any unusual or severe gastrointestinal symptom symptoms or allergic reactions. Take Creon as directed by your doctor and always with food. Do not chew capsules, as this may cause mouth irritation. Other side effects may include blood sugar changes, gas, dizziness, sore throat and cough. These are not all the side effects of Creon. Call 800-633-9110 or visit creoninfo.com to learn more. That's C R E o-ninfo.com I'm asking.
- [35:31]
A
My doctor about epi and if Creon could help.
- [35:35]
B
With endless scroll algorithms and AI flooding feeds, podcasting stands out. They're sought, not served. Audiences actively choose to hear trusted voices on topics they care about. In fact, 72% of listeners say podcasts shape cultural conversations for marketers. That means podcasts shift brand perception like no other channel. Acast's Podcast Pulse 2025 report has the proof. Get all the insights at podcastpulse2025.com.
- [36:09]
A
I'm Michael Wolf and I are back inside Trump's head. This.
- [36:13]
B
So the position, this puts. This puts the country in, first thing, it puts Donald Trump's supporters in this terrible position, really, which is. Which is they're forced to defend what they can see is not. Is not. Is indefensible.
- [36:29]
A
Right. I mean, at least Tom Homan said, let the investigation take place and then.
- [36:35]
B
Everybody else, I mean, the numbers are already reflecting this because everybody who sees this says, what the fuck? Of course, you know, of course they just shot her. Of course there was no reason to shoot her. And this is going to stand. There is no way around this. The Trump people have. I mean, this is a catastrophic mess up, not to mention a well, and the catastrophic cruelty, Right?
- [37:09]
A
And the videos keep coming, and then.
- [37:11]
B
They get in this position that they have to double down on their own defense of this.
- [37:15]
A
And the videos keep coming because yesterday there was a video circulating everywhere of a pregnant woman being pulled out of her car. And there were three ICE officers around her. She's clinging onto the car door, and you're like, this is horrifying. It's happening in America, and this is not what people wanted when they voted to close the border. I just don't believe that people want these confrontations in their streets.
- [37:41]
B
No, they don't.
- [37:41]
A
With people.
- [37:42]
B
You know, and they've put an enormous number of people into Minneapolis. I mean, essentially Minneapolis is under siege, is occupied. You know, now there is, and I think we spoke about this in the last episode, that this fall, Trump began to see this as a substantial liability, that this was going to affect the 2026 midterms. You know, he said people are seeing these ice. ICE videos and crying over them. And he recognized. I mean, that doesn't sound very sympathetic, but it does sound like he recognized the political problem here. And the political problem is immense, which is why you then take over Venezuela and Greenland and.
- [38:29]
A
Right. Distraction, distraction, distraction. Although There's Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, which we know. We haven't talked about Epstein for a little bit, but the Epstein files are still dripping out, and we will circle back to them.
- [38:46]
B
I mean, the Justice Department again has announced that they've released, what, 2% and 98% continues.
- [38:54]
A
There's another 5 million documents to come out, apparently.
- [38:57]
B
So this is extraordinary. And one of those things that, I mean, Trump in that thing. And I had spoken to people in the White House about the progression toward Venezuela and Greenland, but it was the recognition on Trump's part that he had these significant problems, including the ICE videos, but also including the fact that he has been unable to stem the Epstein disclosures and the attention and the demands that for ever more information about what happened with Jeffrey Epstein and specifically Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump.
- [39:42]
A
Yes. And you saw someone shouting at him when he was on his tour of the factory this week, the car factory in Detroit, pedophile protector. The person has since been suspended, but Donald Trump gave him the finger and shouted, f you. That's not a very presidential moment. And actually think. No. And interestingly, when King Charles was heckled by someone who shouted Epstein at him about his younger brother Andrew, it actually pushed them to say to Andrew, you're out of Royal Lodge and you've got to go and live on in some cottage on the Sandringham estate.
- [40:25]
B
Right. Well, they can't. I don't know. I'm trying to think of the parallel here.
- [40:31]
A
Well, there may not be a parallel, but it's a realization. Right, but it's a realization when you're out doing those public tours which are supposed to be PR tours, and someone shouts at you, they've hijacked the news agenda, however briefly. And Predator, you know, pedophile protector is not something Donald Trump wants shouting.
- [40:53]
B
No, I. I mean, obviously, Epstein remains of a potentially mortal threat to Donald Trump, and he knows it. And that's why he is doing his Trumpian best to distract from it and create an entirely other counternarrative. We're now, you know, an imperial power taking over the world and sending troops and defending or not defending protesters who are trying to overthrow their country's despotic regimes.
- [41:33]
A
Well, he seems to be saying whatever Stephen Miller is whispering in his ear at this point, too. So we talked about cbs. I don't want to make this episode all about the media, but we should just also acknowledged that there was a Washington Post reporter whose house got raided, her computers taken, her phones taken. Hopefully, Jeff Bezos, the owner of the Washington Post, can call Donald Trump and say, hey, you know that $40 million I've just paid for your wife's documentary? And you know how I turned up and supported you in your inauguration and I bought my new girlfriend and we stood there. Can you send back my reporter's, you know, phone and computer, please?
- [42:14]
B
You know, I mean, the interesting thing about this is that you can't approach Donald Trump that way. So the suggestion that Donald Trump has done anything wrong is not only going to get. Not get you anything, but he's going to double down on whatever he has done. Now, you could. If you're Jeff Bezos, the method here would be to call up and say, your wife's documentary is unbelievably good and everybody is showing up and we're going to put much more money into promoting this and somehow carve a better deal. And so if you give Donald Trump something, you might, you might convince him that he would give you back something. But the idea of calling him and confronting him on any level absolutely won't work.
- [43:14]
A
Well, Jeff Bezos may have to do that because early reports that we're seeing and certainly are being written about are that advanced ticket sales for Melania's film are not as encouraging as people might have hoped. And sadly, some of the promotional posters have been defaced.
- [43:36]
B
Well, I mean, and we're surprised by this. Hardly. And it, you know, it doesn't really, I mean, this isn't really something that was contemplated as speaking to the marketplace in the world of, of Melania lovers. And remember, this is being released worldwide. This is Jeff Bezos giving something to the Trump family. And he can only be expected to keep giving more because that's the only way you deal with the Trumps.
- [44:19]
A
Well, it was an alarming development that the reporter's house was raided, apparently because she'd written a piece in the Washington Post saying that she'd spoken to, I think, an enormous number of unhappy federal employees. She's been doggedly writing the stories of federal employees. Fired, rehired, the mess of it all. Remember Doge? I mean, it wasn't that long ago that everybody was being fired, then rehired, then the chaos of it. Then Elon left, then they had a spat. Then he said, guess what? Trump is in the Epstein files. Then he was brought back into the family. Then he was going to do his America party. Now he's not. Who knows what was going on anyway? An alarming sign that she had her house raided for her information. I hope you've got your. I hope you've Got locks on your doors, Michael?
- [45:12]
B
Well, I'm not sure this is not something to. Well, let me just say that I think everybody who has spent time covering the Trump administration and who has made themselves a point of focus has given this some thought and considered, considered the things that, that might have to be done to, to protect sources, material, et.
- [45:47]
A
Cetera, et cetera, were people to raid your Lovely, you know, 300 year old home in the Hamptons. What you're saying is they wouldn't find very much.
- [45:57]
B
I, I am not saying anything.
- [45:59]
A
TJ Sabula, the man who shouted pedophile predator has actually already raised $800,000 on a series of GoFundMes. I think people just started for him because he was suspended from Ford. So I hope he's reinstated hitherto and can go on a vacation with his family. I don't know what TJ stands for. Thomas, maybe Tarquin. What are t names?
- [46:26]
B
No, well, I think it's, I mean, obviously from the, the GoFundMe I've used for this Melania suit. I mean, there's enormous, I mean, that's one of the interesting things. There is passionate support in opposition to all things Trumpian, to all things Trumpian, or at least to weird. All of the Trumpian excesses and everything about Trump is an excess.
- [46:52]
A
So, Michael, what has Donald Trump got against London? I mean, the man's had two state visits there. I mean, I suppose he could be reacting to the film about Jeffrey Epstein which was projected onto The, I think 200 foot tall, old beautiful stone walls of Windsor Castle in which I think you featured. But why is he constantly saying that London is a shithole and it's so dangerous and nobody wants to, to go there because it's patently untrue.
- [47:26]
B
You know, I think it's a, I mean, remember the Trump thing. Inside Donald Trump's head, he always needs an enemy. And one of his consistent enemies are what he perceives as elite cities. New York, San Francisco, L.A. london. I mean, these are just, just, just picking out the cities of the world. Chicago somewhat. These are, these are the cities of the world that represent to him and I think he believes to the MAGA base, elitists and liberals and leftists and whatever kind of negative things that he can summon at any given moment. And cities, I mean, that is partly true. So it becomes a good enemy for him and it becomes a kind of vivid enemy. Yes, we are people, we don't live in those cities. All of the people in those cities are basically anti Donald Trump. So that is the people who are not in those cities can see that as not only Donald Trump's enemy, but he can make it into their enemy.
- [48:43]
A
Well, it's pretty hard on both King Charles, who, you know, had him and laid out every single thing they could in Windsor Castle, his show of support for Donald Trump, and then, of course, Keir Starmer, who's done nothing but fawn over Donald Trump and is supposed to be, you know, one of Trump's favorite foreign leaders. Anyway, that doesn't last for very long. And then, you know, finally, what are the Clintons going to do? They've been summoned by the Oversight Committee. They've had a subpoena. They've bust through two appointed dates, apparently, with, with the Oversight Committee. Do you think they just, can they just push this off?
- [49:23]
B
I, I think that they probably can push this off. I mean, I mean, think of what, what are the options here? We can put the Clintons in jail.
- [49:34]
A
That's not a good look. And also why.
- [49:35]
B
Well, that's not a good look. But by the way, that would be great for the Democrats, speaking of a rallying cry. But then the other thing, and the more you push this, the more you raise the obvious question. I mean, perhaps the Clintons could tell us something about Jeffrey Epstein, but the couple who could tell us much more are Donald Trump and Melania Trump. So therefore, let's weigh this. Does the White House really want that to be, to be the front and center issue? Well, so this will probably go away.
- [50:18]
A
Also, I would think that both Clintons, although I know that Bill Clinton is frailer now, but might be very effective sitting in that chair, facing the Oversight Committee, referring to Trump and just saying, well, I don't know the answer to that. You really need to ask Donald Trump. Donald Trump was much more friendly with Jeffrey Epstein.
- [50:38]
B
I think that that's, that, that's, that's absolutely, that's true. And why this is at, at a level which so much is in this, a moment in political time, performative.
- [50:52]
A
By the way, I was on Polymarket this morning and I noticed that the markets are only giving Ghislaine Maxwell a 10% chance of being pardoned. Certainly for 2026, the lowest bet was 7 cents on it, 7 cents that she's going to be pardoned and only a 10% likelihood.
- [51:12]
B
And what are the numbers for the invasion of Greenland?
- [51:16]
A
I did not check the numbers for the invasion of Greenland.
- [51:20]
B
We should.
- [51:21]
A
Well, we will and we'll do that by next week.
- [51:23]
B
But we should also point out that one of the Key figures in these betting markets is Donald Trump Jr. Who's.
- [51:34]
A
An advisor to both, I think Polymarket and kalshi, who the two dominant companies right now. And certainly 400k was made on betting on Maduro being extracted from Venezuela over the weekend. So there's something sort of, you know, you're not supposed to have any inside information when you go on these sites.
- [51:58]
B
But it's not illegal though, right? Having inside inside information. Betting on this is not like the securities market. This is a betting market.
- [52:09]
A
Yeah, but I still think that you're not. I mean, actually, weirdly, people in Britain got into trouble for this. I think three or four advisors had to leave the Johnson government after they bet on. Anyway, I can't remember exactly what it was, but you're actually not supposed to do it if you have any kind of political insider information. I think anyway, we should, we should clarify that.
- [52:32]
B
Yeah, but not supposed to do it is different. I mean virtually everything that's done in the, in the Trump administration, you're not supposed to do.
- [52:41]
A
Right. And I'm sure if, if, if Don Jr. The older son is an advisor or an investor in your company, you can do what the fuck you like and.
- [52:52]
B
Ever gratefully a commercial break. Why pay when you can slash TikTok slash and free lets you cut prices all the way to zero. Download TikTok, search, slash free and share the link to get free items. Start slashing now. Want to upskill in one of the most effective ad channels out there with ACAS Ads Academy, you can learn everything you need to plan and run podcast advertising campaigns completely free. Whether you're new to audio or ready to sharpen your skills, our self paced courses fit your schedule and finish with an industry recognized certification. So if you want to grow your expertise and stand out in a competitive industry, head to go acast.com academy.
- [53:43]
A
And I'm back with the Donald Trump chronicler Michael Wolff. And we are where else? Inside Trump's head. Okay, we've got a few questions for Melania. Just to remind people you are suing the first lady after she threatened you with a slap suit. You immediately threatened her back with an anti slap suit suit and it's being dragged.
- [54:04]
B
I didn't threaten her. I went good.
- [54:07]
A
She threatened you, you sued her.
- [54:09]
B
I acted.
- [54:09]
A
She threatened, I acted. And unleashing what I think, I mean certainly there are hundreds of cases against this current government. Mark Kelly now suing Pete Hegseth for trying to reduce his pension and his title of captain for what Pete Hegseth says was Seditious comments. All right. Ask, Ask Melania. This is from Mia Roseman. Ask Melania, who holds the copyright for her movie, and does she get the proceeds in her own name or do they actually line Donald's pocket?
- [54:39]
B
Thoughts? Okay.
- [54:40]
A
Okay. Question for Mr. Wolf. Why do you think Melania has stayed married to Donald Trump?
- [54:47]
B
Somebody in the White House once said to me that, that while they had no idea that this marriage is completely opaque even to the people closest to Donald Trump. This person said, but, you know, it is, it is possibly the, the happiest marriage in America on its terms. So I think that they've worked this out. They're not really together. And I think the money, the money flows in a way to keep everybody happy. And, and maybe that is on its terms, the way this marriage works.
- [55:31]
A
Well, that question was from Robert P5B 9H. And here's a question from Dogwalker 3. Question for Wolf. Do you anticipate accepting a settlement in the lawsuit against Melania or are you going to see this through?
- [55:45]
B
Yes, I said that the settlement that I would consider is if the administration agreed not to commence these kinds of lawsuits again against other people in the media business.
- [55:58]
A
Okay. Seems unlikely. Okay, here's our question. Here's our question from the capinator. Question for Melania. Was there ever a moment or moments where she disagreed with anything her husband has done or said that she felt she had to speak up to him about or perhaps to someone else?
- [56:17]
B
Okay.
- [56:18]
A
Well, we know she spoke to Vladimir Putin about releasing some of the children that Russia took from Ukraine. Maybe she speaks to Vladimir Putin all the time. That would be a good question. I think someone's already suggested that. How often do you speak to Vladimir Putin? All right, Michael, that was a wide ranging agenda this week. So much going on. We've tried to tackle it. We've missed out lots of things, but we've tackled some of them. And then we'll be back on Saturday.
- [56:48]
B
To tackle more and on the Tuesday.
- [56:51]
A
After that and the Tuesday after that. And then we'll be live. Well, we'll be live on the Wednesday at 92nd Street Y, which I'm very excited to. We have to figure out what we're going to talk about.
- [57:01]
B
Right. And everybody can, you know, we'd love everybody to join us. It's going to be.
- [57:05]
A
And you can join us virtually. There was some, someone commented on YouTube. What's the difference between just watching our podcast and watching us live? I said we would have a live audience. It'll be different energy, but we would just Love you to join us. I hope it will be fun. And you can submit questions virtually, too.
- [57:23]
B
Yeah, no, I would. I mean, yes, if you're not, if you're not in New York, it's hard to join us.
- [57:28]
A
Well, not if you're, if you're virtual.
- [57:30]
B
Oh, yes, but join us live. Anyone can join us virtually. And that is not perhaps much different from joining us here. Just more.
- [57:41]
A
Just more. More of everything. More of everything.
- [57:45]
B
Yes, but live could be different. We don't, we don't know. Unedited.
- [57:50]
A
Someone might rush us from the audience. I hope they do. So if you're near, you're going to be first defender. Your first defender.
- [57:57]
B
Lexington Avenue and 92nd Street. Yeah. Megan Kelly. Geez.
- [58:04]
A
Yeah, that was an, that was an odd piece of commentary from.
- [58:08]
B
No, but it occurred to me why, why did they have. Have choose Barry Weiss? They could have chosen Megyn Kelly to run CBS News.
- [58:17]
A
They could have chosen Megan Kelly.
- [58:19]
B
Megyn Kelly is an, is not a pro Israel voice.
- [58:23]
A
Well, and also, I'm sure Megyn Kelly is making much more money from her podcast than she would do as president of CBS News.
- [58:29]
B
Very good point. But it's television. Remember, Megyn Kelly was, was kind of thrown out of television. Maybe she wants back in.
- [58:38]
A
Maybe she wants back in. Well, if you have been, thank you for joining us. Don't forget to leave us a comment. We've covered a ton of stuff and I know that you have opinions and we love your opinions. And by the way, someone wrote in to say after we were enthusing about Billy Bob Thornton that Billy Bob Thornton was leaving Landman. So I went down a spiral of what's happening at Landman. In fact, spoiler alert, Close your ears if you don't want to know what happens at the end of season two. But it looks like Billy might leave this season or leave the show, but in fact, he's not leaving the show. His contract has him, I think, for five seasons. So happily, we can expect more of Billy Bob. They just need to write better female characters. They have great female actresses. Just Taylor Sheridan. Please write better roles for them.
- [59:30]
B
I think Megyn Kelly could work in Landman, too.
- [59:33]
A
Megyn Kelly would be fantastic in Landman. She could go up against the lawyer. Meghan would have a point of view on that.
- [59:41]
B
The woman lawyer in Landman has is, I think, now having a torrid, ish affair with a man.
- [59:48]
A
Oh, with a man. Okay, well, someone said, oh, the lawyers are lesbian sex.
- [59:52]
B
But as I said, Barry Weiss had a torridish affair with a man.
- [59:56]
A
Well, we don't know it was torrid.
- [59:58]
B
We don't know.
- [60:00]
A
I don't think that New York Times columnists have torrid affairs. I think they're going to be well considered and well articulated and structured. I think they're going to be structured, you see.
- [60:13]
B
I don't think so. I think they're all out of control.
- [60:17]
A
You think they're all out of control?
- [60:18]
B
Yes. No.
- [60:20]
A
Oh, God help us. All right, I'm just.
- [60:22]
B
Anyway, the rumors that I here out of the New York Times are torrid.
- [60:29]
A
I don't even know.
- [60:30]
B
Complicated. You know, a lot of. A lot of, you know, gender role bending.
- [60:37]
A
Well, life is complicated, Michael, as you know yourself. Onwards, onwards to thank our production team. Remind people to subscribe to the Daily Beast. Leave us a comment. Join our BBC tier of members. You get extra content and you get your name read out by Michael and we will sign your books. Andrew Mellor, as you call him, Andrew Mellor, as I call him, has sent a big package of books to be signed, which we will do next time you are in the studio. Anyway, we'll be back on Saturday.
- [61:09]
B
I'll see you then. Joanna.
- [61:12]
A
Hi.
- [61:13]
B
Just a second. I have to tell you about something that we're obsessed with. I'm Kevin Fallon. And I'm Matt Wilstein and we are hosting Obsessed, the podcast about all the TV shows, movies and entertainment newsmakers that we're all obsessed with. So make sure you subscribe to us on YouTube at the YouTube channel. Make sure you follow us wherever you get your podcasts. Just search for Obsessed the podcast and we will see you there.
- [61:39]
A
Big shout out to our bebeast level members. Yvette Johnson, Me Think Betsy o' Farrell Mills and Lynns Shell B. Max Quibbett, David Sherry, Thomas Moore, Maria Voltaine De Kooja Watts, Sinja Lund, John H. Overocker, Deb K. Ostrander, Sandra Clark Travels with Karl Andrew Beaver Capinator Harry Clark, Dawn McCarthy, Daniel dog lover M. Griner, Dicetone Fulvia Orlando Herbie, Andrew Mellor Tattnall, Val Love, Francis Will Hutchison, Andrea Hodel Bocock D.C. sharon Shipley, Connie Rutherford, Karen Wright and Heidi Riley.
- [62:19]
B
Devin Rachel Ryan and Heather and Heather.
- [62:24]
A
Our team is growing. It's very exciting. Wallet feeling extra light after the holidays? Yeah, same. But recovery starts right now with TikTok Slash and free. Here's how it works. Pick the products you want in TikTok, shop, share the link and watch the price drop all the way to zero. No tricks, no catch, just free stuff with free shipping. Download TikTok Search, Slash free and start slashing Today.
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ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend a.
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Random influencer, a friend who read something somewhere your doctor. It can be hard to know where to get trusted health information. Tedhealth is a podcast that will help you focus on the stuff that you actually need to know to live your healthiest life.
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B
I'm Dr. Shoshana Ungerliter, a practicing internist.
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A
And I share weekly TED talks from certified health experts that break down the questions you're always getting different answers to get the science backed ideas for a healthier you with TED Health Wherever you.
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Get your podcasts, ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily Beast podcast@thedailybeast.com podcasts if you enjoyed this.
- [64:05]
A
Episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to thedailybeast.com membership podcast and sign up today.