John Avlon (2:31)

Michael, Joanna did you have a good Thanksgiving?

Michael Wolff (2:37)

Yeah, I had the same Thanksgiving I've had year in and year out for the. Over the course of my life.

John Avlon (2:44)

I don't think that's true, actually. I mean, I've known you through a couple of wives, Michael, so I'm pretty confident that's not true.

Michael Wolff (2:51)

The wives change, the children grow older, new children appear, grandchildren appear. But fundamentally, the Thanksgiving stays the same.

John Avlon (3:02)

The wives change, the children grow older, new children appear. That literally sounds like the first few lines of a poem. I'm trying to think who it would be. Not William Carlos Williams. Possibly Philip Larkin.

Michael Wolff (3:14)

Yes. I would say it's of a long novel.

John Avlon (3:17)

Oh, of a long novel. Okay. Or the novel of this podcast. Okay. We need to start to remind people that if anybody is in New York and cares to come and see us live, we will be at the 92nd Street Y on January 21st. I am told that tickets are selling fast, so if you would like to come and see us live, feel free. Go to 92nd Streetwide.org I guess, and book your tickets now.

Michael Wolff (3:46)

Yeah, and I've done the 92nd street wise quite a number of times. It's. It's actually a great venue, so we should have a nice evening.

John Avlon (3:56)

Well, I've done it once, Michael. I've done it once, and I loved it. And I love our live audiences. We loved our event at the City of the Museum of New York, and we're excited to see more people. It seemed to be a testy Thanksgiving for Donald Trump. He was back to his insults again. He called Tim Walsh. Remember Tim Walsh? Anybody? Barely. Barely. He called Tim Walsh retarded. And as we know, he was yelling piggy at one reporter last week. Then he called Katie Rogers at the New York Times ugly inside and out. And then he called another reporter stupid. Are you stupid? So what. What do we think? Did he just have too much sugar?

Michael Wolff (4:39)

Well, you know, I think we have to remember that he has insulted people across the last. What are we at now? 11 years. So I'm not sure that is an indication of anything other than the fact that he is Donald Trump, but I.

John Avlon (4:59)

Feel like they're coming faster and more furious. I wondered if he'd had too much lemon meringue.

Michael Wolff (5:04)

I don't know. I've been around a lot of Trump insults. They come. They come. They seem predictable to me. But let's assume, because I think that there is other. There are other reasons to think that we are seeing a new level of weakness, and that's because he looks terrible.

John Avlon (5:28)

He does look terrible.

Michael Wolff (5:29)

He looks terrible wherever he is. Mentally, I think we've seen some evident weirdness. The fact that he can go, and it would seem, in the course of a day, from being a Putin booster to a Zelensky booster, that he can go from Mamdani, you know, we're going to deport the guy to. We're going to embrace the guy. I mean, I think. I think that he's. He's traveling very quickly between, between the. The extremes of these issues, as though, A, he doesn't know what he stands for anymore, or B, he forgets. So, I mean, I think that there. That there is something curious there. And then.

John Avlon (6:20)

And both could be true. I mean, they're not mutually exclusive. He could have forgotten what he stands for and he could have forgotten that he's forgotten what he stands for.

Michael Wolff (6:28)

Exactly. Exactly. And. And then there's. I think. I think we're seeing his. A new. And really. And this is for the first time, a new weakness in his hold on the Republican Party. And, you know, that's Marjorie Taylor Green. But. And then I found this interview with. With Mike. What's his name? I can't.

John Avlon (6:56)

Johnson. Mike Johnson, the leader of the House. With his.

Michael Wolff (6:59)

I never remember this guy's name. I mean, it's. It's one. One of those. One of those.

John Avlon (7:08)

Well, it's just a very ordinary name.

Michael Wolff (7:10)

Generic names that nobody seems to have anymore. And he seem. Mike Johnson seems like a guy who nobody is anymore, you know, a regular old white guy doofus.

John Avlon (7:24)

A regular old white guy doofus who. I think I watched the same interview. It was a podcast. And he talked about his aim being to uphold the institution that he's head of, which I found reassuring. And I felt that he was trying to indicate to anybody listening, and I don't think there were very many people listening, apart from perhaps you and me, that, that he understood it was under threat and he was going to do his best to uphold its value.

Michael Wolff (7:54)

I thought that that interview indicated that he was having a nervous breakdown.

John Avlon (7:59)

Oh, interesting. Say more.

Michael Wolff (8:01)

I mean, he basically said, my life is falling apart. I can't really, you know, this job is way over my head. Nothing is going right. I mean, it was a. It was a kind of a bleak picture. And I wondered when I saw this, if other people in that trump orbit of. Of. Of necessary loyalty and fealty experience the same thing. That it is incredibly unrewarding that all that it gets you is grief because you're. You're a. You're a kind of pinball just you never know what Donald Trump wants. You never know what he's going to ask you to do. You never know what breach you're going to have to, you never know how foolish you're going to look.

John Avlon (8:48)

Well, he said at one point, I jotted this down. We have a joke, meaning him and his wife Kelly, who was doing the interview with him. We have a joke. I am not speaker of the House. I am a mental health counselor. And he talks about people calling him at 11:30 at night that he was completely overwhelmed. And then I thought this was an interesting quote, so maybe I'm coming around to your point of view. His wife was asked her observations of him in the job and she said he overestimates what, what he can get done.

Michael Wolff (9:18)

Yeah. I mean, which, I mean, I don't exactly understand understand that except as a way to say that he's not getting anything done, that he feels behind the eight ball all of the time, that he has no mastery over the job that he holds which, which obviously makes sense. Remember, and this is back in, this is, I mean, he gets, he, he, he gets this job in the fall three and he is nobody we've never heard ever heard of before. He's not a leader in, in the House. He's a, he's a, he's a basically nobody congressman with, from a right conservative right wing background. But even that is not particularly notable. And he's there by default.

John Avlon (10:12)

Right. He's last man standing after Kevin McCarthy has I think 14 votes and they all go against him.

Michael Wolff (10:18)

And then there were subsequently others who fell by the wayside. And suddenly it is this person that we've, we've, we've never heard of and person who's kind of patently unprepared for this is a big job. I mean, it's a major management job. And then on top of that, you are not only managing your, your House caucus, but you having to manage the president of the United States who is actually managing you.

John Avlon (10:46)

Right. Donald Trump has openly said I'm the president and I'm the speaker, which is rather disillusioning. I would IM Mike and Kelly Johnson.

Michael Wolff (10:54)

That episode, which I'm, which I, which is just among the many, many things that have been forgotten. There was a moment in which, in which Donald Trump was, he was not the, he was not, he was not a member of Congress and he was not even the president then. But it was, it was like, well, I'll be speaker.

John Avlon (11:13)

And well, and you, you mentioned the perks and the, and they're asked what the perks are and neither of them can think of anything. And then he goes, there's not a lot of perks. And then he goes, well, the speaker's balcony. And then he describes the night that he was elected. His family come to the office and they all have sandwiches on the speaker's balcony. And you're like, oh, that's not much of a perk. Although then he said that he'd, he'd gone to a UFC fight and he'd met Jelly Roll and Kid Rock and that was a huge perk. And I was like, oh, that, that doesn't sound like a huge book.

Michael Wolff (11:51)

No, no. And that when he was ordered to go to that fight, because, you know Trump, I mean, that's one of the things that they, that they do in the White House is they like to turn out people, loyalists for these events that Trump goes to. Especially, especially the ufc. So, no, I mean, it sounds like the worst job in the world, but I also think that it is representative of the, what other people feel. I mean, the Marjorie Taylor Green thing is among, among, among everything. And among the objections that she, that she may have had, you sense her incredible weariness of having to deal with Donald Trump of, of whom she's in now. You know, she's gone from the greatest loyalist to, to open rebellion. So, and, and I think that we are seeing this more and more throughout the Republican Party. So his, the weaknesses we have here are his, his physical health, his mental health, and then his hold on the party itself. So I'd say that this is a possible inflection point.

John Avlon (13:05)

Well, there was also a report last week in Punchbowl News, co founded by the estimable Anna Palmer, that Marjorie Taylor Greene was the canary in the coal mine that actually several other Congress people planning to step down because they too had had enough and they're getting a ton of doxing online. Their families are threatened. I don't know how much of that is actually by just bad foreign actors. And it's not real. But the good news for Marjorie Taylor Greene is she has, apparently after five years in Congress, she's not leaving empty handed. Marjorie Taylor Greene is resigning her seat two days after she's eligible for a pension from Congress.

Michael Wolff (13:47)

I think most people would resign their jobs if they are going to resign. They would wait out the days before they receive their pension. I mean, I think that there's a larger discussion, at least online, and I have no insight into this, about the amounts of money that she may have made during her tenure. As a congressperson, I think, I think Laura Loomer is, you know, doing her Laura Loomer thing about this. But what I would say, and again, I don't know the details of that, but what I do certainly appreciate is that the Trump White House is going to go to war, as it does with all of its antagonists with Marjorie Taylor Greene. So we're gonna, we're gonna, they're gonna set her up as, as an enemy and going to try to take her down, whether rightly or wrongly.

John Avlon (14:49)

Well, Laura Loomer, I think, claimed her as yet another scout. Laura Loom has been slightly below the radar for the last few months, but she popped back up and went lumaed after MTG resigned. She also said, and this was a post on X last week, it's all about the money for her, always has been. She's doing this for the money. Expect to see her portfolio explode between now and January 2020. Marjorie Trader Greene, you know, and I'm.

Michael Wolff (15:20)

Sure that that is, you know, Laura Loomer has always had a carried on soto voce conversation with the president. And is it possible, is it likely that that. Is that she is there channeling an irate president? Of course.

John Avlon (15:45)

Interesting. Well, we'll be watching to see what comes out about Marjorie Taylor Greene's portfolio over the next few months. But what we can say is she entered Congress with her family business, a construction business. We know she'll get a full congressional pension, but it'd be very interesting to know what else.

Michael Wolff (16:03)

We don't know that that was the worth of the business either. I mean, I mean, we've seen this reported, but believe me, as someone who has had his net worth.

John Avlon (16:13)

What is your net worth?

Michael Wolff (16:14)

Well, I have seen mine. It was. My net worth is scant, but I have seen it rise to extraordinary heights on, on, on the Internet. So.

John Avlon (16:26)

All right, well, we'll rely on.

Michael Wolff (16:28)

I discount most Internet numbers.

John Avlon (16:31)

All right, well, we'll rely on the White House to release Marjorie Taylor Greene's gains during her five years in Congress. I, I think that's, I think you're right. That's exactly what they're going to do. And we encourage them to. I'm very curious. Tim Walsh responded to the retard comment by saying, release your MRI results.

Michael Wolff (16:51)

I mean, there's always been calls for Trump's, Trump to be more transparent. Release your taxes. Release. He releases nothing. And it has, it has no effect. But, you know, I think that we are starting to see a variety of issues which go to the heart of the contradictions of the Trump contradictions and. Which are both emotional issues and oddly unifying issues. And it begins with Epstein, of course. I mean, Epstein is an issue of the right and the left. And it is an issue that. That continues and continues and continues. And I think that's part of what has to happen here in terms of the opposition, a kind of focus on these, these things. Now. I think the economy, affordability, what, whatever the word we're, we're using is coming, is coming strongly into the picture which, uniting both sides, you know, life costs too much money. I mean, nobody is happy. Nobody perceives the economy as getting better. Everyone perceives the economy as getting worse.

John Avlon (18:00)

Except the very rich, because the markets have been on fire, right?

Michael Wolff (18:05)

And, and even, even worse. I mean, that's glaring. When the very rich thinks things are getting better and the rest of us think that they don't, that means that makes. It feels like things are even getting worse. In other words, it is, it is an issue. It is a, you know, it is a flaw in the Trump scent, that Trump sense of indomitability and of that Trump ability to always change the subject. The other issue that I think is, is grows more and more every day is the cruelty issue. Now, you know, there are two sides on the immigration dispute, and there will continue to be two sides there. But I think what. There isn't a, what there aren't two sides on is the, the ugliness of these masked guys in black ripping people out of their homes and away from their families. And to see video of it, rather now constant video. So again, that seems to be just another issue. Epstein, the economy, the cruelty issue that are, these are not partisan issues. I think they are rather unifying issues. And I think that they are issues that are, that are joined to Donald Trump. I mean, and then the other, the other issue, too, which I think gains traction every day, is the grift issue that it is. Trump, his family and his friends are clearly in it for what they can get until they can't get it anymore. And that is. Is again, one of those, those issues that unites everybody. This is. Nobody is looking at this and thinking, thinking, you go, guys.

John Avlon (19:59)

The Democrats have rightly been criticized for all sorts of reasons. Very notably, they have had no response really to the Epstein affair. Joe Biden didn't ask for a release of the files. It was less of an issue then. But why do you think that is? And what should they be doing?

Michael Wolff (20:23)

Why didn't the Democrats press that issue?

John Avlon (20:26)

Why wasn't it a campaign issue. Why wasn't his friendship.

Michael Wolff (20:30)

Honestly, I think that they didn't, they didn't know it was the issue. I think they've been uncomfortable with talking about the issue. It's like why the, why the media never made it an issue. Why, why this story has waited for so long. And I think the, I think the answer to that is, is a level of, of discomfort with this, with the story.

John Avlon (20:56)

But is it discomfort because Bill Clinton also took a lot of rides on Jeffrey Epstein's plane and they don't want to. To the Democrats, or is it just the general icky nature which you've mentioned before?

Michael Wolff (21:08)

I think it is the general ickiness of it. I think it is the, you know, the Clinton, the Democrats thing. And I think that, that, that as to the. Probably the overriding issue here, you know, I think, I think people believe Donald Trump, you know, I passed them in the hallway instead of understanding that it was the window that opened that gave you a view, the, the true view of Donald Trump's character. It is the character issue, you know, and I think we've gone. I think there are two sides of this. There's the conspiracy issue, which many people have embraced about the Epstein affair. But then I think it is, and I think it becomes clearer and clearer, especially when Donald Trump tries to move further and further away from it or hide more and more of it, that it is the Donald Trump character issue. He's a dirty dog and he's been able to mask that for a long time. It was kind of one of those, those, you know, unknown known issues. Everybody knows it, but in. But yet somehow he's been able to change the subject when it's, when it's. When it's come up and has. And I think that that has less. He's. He's less and less able to change the subject on Epstein. And Epstein is more and more an issue about Donald Trump's character And a moment from our sponsors.

Paige Desorbo (22:46)

Hi, it's Paige desorbo from Giggly Squad. You ever stand in front of your closet and just say, I have nothing to wear, while you're literally surrounded by clothes. Because same. So I started listing pieces. I'm over on Depop and honestly, it's been amazing. You can sell what you're done with and someone out there will love it. And the best part about it is there's no seller fee, so the money you make actually stays in your pocket, which feels very chic. It's also insanely easy. I listed something while watching TV and it sold before the episode even ended. So download the Depop app and list your first item today because your old outfit could be someone else's new favorite. Depop where taste recognizes taste Payment processing fees boosting fees still apply. For more info visit depop.com hi, it's Paige Desorbo from Giggly Squad. You ever stand in front of your closet and just say I have nothing to wear while you're literally surrounded by clothes? Because same so I started listing pieces. I'm over on Depop and honestly it's been amazing. You can sell what you're done with and someone out there will love it. And the best part about it is there's no seller fee so the money you make actually stays in your pocket, which feels very chic. It's also insanely easy. I listed something while watching TV and it sold before the episode even ended. So download the Depop app and list your first item today because your old outfit could be someone else's new favorite. Depop where taste recognizes taste waste payment processing fees boosting fees still apply. For More info visit depop.com you know Hannah and I love a good bedrotting session. Reality TV snacks nearby and now I've leveled up with my self care game with this Shark Beauty Cryoglow, the number one skincare facial device in the us.

John Avlon (24:30)

Wait, I'm obsessed with it.

Michael Wolff (24:31)

I've had it for a while actually.

Paige Desorbo (24:33)

And it's the only mask that combines.

Michael Wolff (24:35)

High energy LEDs, infrared and under eye cooling.

Paige Desorbo (24:39)

I really need this because nothing wakes.

John Avlon (24:40)

Me up in the morning. You could do four treatments in one. Better aging, skin clearing, skin sustain and.

Michael Wolff (24:46)

My favorite the under eye revive with Insta Chill Cold tech. You put it on and it just feels so good under your eyes.

Paige Desorbo (24:52)

Like I actually feel like I got.

John Avlon (24:53)

Eight hours of sleep.

Paige Desorbo (24:54)

It's truly like a luxury spa moment while you're literally horizontal. It's perfect for post workout Sunday scaries or when you just want to glow while rotting. To treat yourself to the number one.

John Avlon (25:05)

LED beauty mask this holiday season, go to sharkninja.com and use promo code Giggly.

Paige Desorbo (25:09)

Squad for 10% off your cryoglow.

John Avlon (25:11)

That's sharkninja.com and Use promo code giggly.

Paige Desorbo (25:14)

Squad for 10 off your cryo glow.

Michael Wolff (25:16)

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50 off unlimited. To be clear, that's half price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day. Yeah, give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront.

Paige Desorbo (25:40)

Payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month. Required new customer offer for first three months only.

John Avlon (25:43)

Speed Flow Hacker 35 gigabytes of network.

Paige Desorbo (25:45)

Fizzy taxes and fees extra. See mint mobile.com.

John Avlon (25:50)

And Michael Wolff and I are back inside Trump's head. I'm not sure people care about his character, though, because we've known, as you say, he's a dirty dog. It turns out that, you know, his cheating on Melania shortly after she'd given birth to Baron was in fact, fact seen as a qualifying factor. People liked the fact he'd spent the night with, or actually not even spent the night, had a couple of hours with Stormy Daniels. Despite his denials, I don't know why he didn't just lean into it.

Michael Wolff (26:18)

Well, I think that these things are, I mean, you're absolutely right. But what becomes the silver bullet, you know, what becomes, you know, there's a lot of things that people, that people know or think they know or pieces of it and they don't crystallize until, until a moment. That's the moment at which becomes a scandal. And the connection to Epstein is the objective correlative of Donald Trump's character. The fact that he may well have known what was going on at Jeffrey Epstein's house in Palm Beach. He indubitably knew what was going on. They were the closest of friends, of which I have obviously said many, many, many times. You have, and, and that, and now that has become clearly one of the key issues. What did Donald Trump know about Jeffrey Epstein and when did he know it?

John Avlon (27:18)

The tipping point for his character.

Michael Wolff (27:20)

But that is just one of these issues that I think sticks to him. I mean, the economy, he's not going to escape the, the, the economic issue. And then the economic issue is kind of broader. And again goes to Donald Trump personally, which is he doesn't know what he's doing. And I think everybody has that sense of this. Tariffs today, tariffs not today, threats today, threats not today, inflation. Does he really understand that? But, you know, again and again it is, it is on him. And the economy, you know, basically falls on anybody who is, who is the president. But then, then the broader context of a president who more and more shows that he's, you know, he's, he's just not capable, certainly not consistent, and that probably means he's not capable of dealing with it, especially as things get worse and worse and not better and better.

John Avlon (28:26)

I agree with you. And also the physical manifestation of his Exhaustion. And his whiplash on subjects is so obvious, particularly in his face. I mean his eyes, his eyes are barely open. And I'm not talking about when he's dozing off in the chair behind the desk in the Oval Office. I'm talking about just he's sort of peering at people. The videos that came out from Mar a Lago where he appeared to be having Thanksgiving, he just looked like his eyes were almost glued together. He could barely force them apart.

Michael Wolff (28:58)

Well, you know, of course, I mean he's a, you know, he's a 79 year old man who doesn't take care of himself. And to the degree that Mike Johnson might be, might be experiencing all kinds of the pressures of the job and the whiplash of dealing with, with, with Donald Trump, I think Trump after, I mean, he's done this for a year and it has been an extraordinary year, probably the most extraordinary year in the history of the American presidency. I think there are two things. He emerges from this year as a incredibly dominant character in this moment in time and in this job. But the dominance, I think, and I think this is what we're seeing has had an enormous price. It's had a price on him physically because it really demands, has demanded this, you know, this obsessive, I mean, just living in this middle of this drama every day and then it's exacted a price on so many people around him, Mike Johnson of it all.

John Avlon (30:15)

When he came in, he said, oh, Russia, Ukraine, I'm going to solve it on my first day. You know, this would never have happened if I were President. We seem to be going back and forth. More whiplash on what's happening with his envoy, Steve Witkoff, the former Manhattan real estate developer. And where are we with that? There was 28 points. Now those seem to be.

Michael Wolff (30:40)

Central. Witkoff is essentially the Secretary of State, although there are many secretaries of, of state, including his son in law, who I believe does want to be the Secretary of State.

John Avlon (30:51)

Well, and who has miraculously appeared in the middle of the Russia, Ukraine negotiations.

Michael Wolff (30:56)

Right.

John Avlon (30:57)

Despite having no official role.

Michael Wolff (31:00)

None whatsoever, except the bag man. But Witkoff is a famous, in New York circles, a famous dummy. So this dummy, one more of the dummies that Trump has, has elevated into, into positions that are, you know, that, that honestly, and let me say this not snobbishly demand a bit of intelligence.

John Avlon (31:31)

Well, and also a man that doesn't bother to take notes when he's meeting with the Russian president. So he comes out, gives a report of the conversation, which turns out to be different from the Russians understanding. He doesn't like to take anybody with him. He likes to go on his own. I mean, it's very, very strange.

Michael Wolff (31:49)

Witkoff is a lackey and his, and he's doing, trying to give Trump what he wants. Now, Witkoff is in a, I think in a difficult place here because I'm not sure that Trump knows what he wants.

John Avlon (32:03)

Well, doesn't Trump just want an announcement saying, I've I'm going to get the Peace Prize next year because now I've.

Michael Wolff (32:10)

Solved the Russia, Ukraine war, ideally, but in. He doesn't know if that demand. I mean, at the same time, he wants to be, wants Putin to like him. We don't know why. This has gone on for a very long time. It has always seemed dubious, certainly, but suspicious also. And that theme continues. I want to be Vladimir Putin's friend or equal.

John Avlon (32:39)

Well, is it because he just admires Vladimir Putin's control over his country?

Michael Wolff (32:44)

We don't know if he admires, if he admires, fires Putin. If Putin has something on him. We, we don't know. But at the same time, then suddenly he's, suddenly this, then goes under. Other people take this over and we are no longer a Vladimir Putin butt boy. We're now, we're now, we're now trying to give, give the Ukrainians what they want. And what the Ukrainians want is not going to satisfy what the Russians want and vice versa. So we've had a week or 10 days of activity and nothing has changed.

John Avlon (33:31)

Nothing. Nothing has changed. So we're gearing up for not only your own case against Melania, but the Melania documentary for fans of her book Melania, which, as we've pointed out before, nobody is thanked in, no editor is acknowledged, no researcher, no fact checker, Literally nobody is acknowledged in the book. It's as if the book just arrived on the scene and it's tethered to nothing other than Skyhorse Publishing, which obviously also publishes Bobby Kennedy. We've got the Milani documentary for which she got paid $40 million by Amazon.

Michael Wolff (34:15)

Coming out in January, 70% of the back end, $10 million corporate sponsorship.

John Avlon (34:23)

Daily Beast watch party. That's all I'm promising. We will figure out how to do a Daily Beast Watch party when it releases. And Michael will be doing commentary and I will be, I will be throwing in my own comments, too. But what I was coming to was the director, Brett Ratmer, of the Rush Hour series. Was it the Rush Hour series?

Michael Wolff (34:41)

Yes, but let's, I mean, paint the picture so. So Brett Ratner has been one of the more among the many egregious Me too cancellations in Hollywood. Brett Ratner has, has led the pack. Speaking of dirty dogs, I think there.

John Avlon (35:01)

Was a breathtaking number of complaints against him.

Michael Wolff (35:04)

Him. Limitless it would seem. And so how he came came to the. Came to. To be the director. I mean he's an action film director. So. And now he's the. The director of this hagiographic soft focus Bezos sucker. Yes. Picture of the first lady. A. So the big couple of questions. A. Why would he possibly do that? Okay, he's out of a job, but.

John Avlon (35:34)

Well, and I think he wants proximity to power, right?

Michael Wolff (35:38)

Well, yes, I mean but what do you get from proximity to power? What we now know that Paramount Pictures, which is, which is run by the Ellison family.

John Avlon (35:52)

Who Larry Ellison of Oracle fame and his son David Ellison.

Michael Wolff (35:56)

Exactly. So who are allies of the President of the United States. They they in. In, in the last what, 30 days. 60 days accomplished a very difficult merger of various motion picture companies, including Paramount, which also owns cbs, which depended on the goodwill of the President of the United States. And so now Brett Ratner, also a. A new ally of the President of the United States because he has made the First Ladies documentary, has now had his cancellation cancelled and is in the Rush Hour series. Rush Hour 4 I believe has just been signed up by Paramount Studios.

John Avlon (36:56)

Ka ching. Ka ching for everybody. So you're asking what did Brett Ratner get out of this? He gets his career back and he gets a sequel to rush hours 1, 2 and 3.

Michael Wolff (37:10)

Yes. I mean Ratner has been one of those very, very successful movie show business entrepreneurs of attracting a great deal of money from around the world to finance these action films which actually, you know, have a long history of in fact doing very, very well. And once more, our sponsors.

Paige Desorbo (37:39)

So here's the thing with homemade meals. Eating them is great, but all the chopping and measuring and cleanup, not so much. With new one pan assemble and bake meals from Blue Apron you get all the flavor of homemade meals with a fraction of the work. Just assemble the pre chopped ingredients, bake in the oven and enjoy shop. Assemble and bake@blue apron.com Get 50% off your first two orders with code APRON50. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more. Hi, it's Paige Desorbo from Giggly Squad. You ever stand in front of your closet and just say I have nothing to wear while you're literally surrounded by clothes? Because same. So I started listing pieces. I'm over on Depop and honestly, it's been amazing. You can sell what you're done with and someone out there will love it. And the best part about it is there's no seller fee, so the money you make actually stays in your pocket, which feels very chic. It's also insanely easy. I listed something while watching TV and it sold before the episode even ended. So download the Depop app and list your first item today because your old outfit could be someone else's new favorite. Depop where taste recognizes taste. Payment processing fees boosting fees still apply. For more info, visit depop.com hey, Ryan.

Michael Wolff (38:56)

Reynolds here wishing you a very happy half off holiday because right now Mint Mobile is offering you the gift of 50% off unlimited. To be clear, that's half the price, not half the service. Mint is still premium unlimited wireless for a great price. So that means a half day.

John Avlon (39:15)

Yeah.

Michael Wolff (39:15)

Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment.

Paige Desorbo (39:19)

Of 45 for 3 month plan equivalent to 15 per month required new customer offer for first 3 months only.

John Avlon (39:22)

Speed flow after 35 gigabytes of network.

Paige Desorbo (39:23)

Busy taxes and fees extra. Cmnobile.com.

Michael Wolff (39:30)

If you've used Babbel, you would. Babbel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com acast spelled B A B B E L.com acast rules and restrictions may apply.

John Avlon (40:08)

And Michael and I are back. Where are we? Of course we're inside Trump's head. So he's a what, he's a cash machine for investors?

Michael Wolff (40:20)

Well, he's a. He's a Hollywood machine. Why do people invest in Hollywood? That's a complicated issue because usually it actually doesn't really return. But there are other rewards. Status, women. It's a. If, if you can play that game, it is a very lucrative one in. Brett Ratner was very good at playing that game until he was faced all these allegations in that particular moment in time which, which seemed to have finished him off, but apparently not.

John Avlon (40:57)

I'm surprised we haven't seen any Brett Ratner emails in the Epstein files. I feel like someone would have been referring to him. I've never seen knowingly Seen, anyway.

Michael Wolff (41:07)

No, no. Epstein and Ratner knew each other. I don't. I actually know. I. I know that they. That they did know each other. How? Seriously, I don't know.

John Avlon (41:20)

Well, I've never knowingly seen a Rush Hour movie, and I'm not planning to, but I will watch his document. Perhaps he'll include, you know, action. Action shots of her staggering in her stilettos across the lawn to Marine Force One. And suddenly it takes.

Michael Wolff (41:38)

No, I think she has a potential as a. As a superhero.

John Avlon (41:45)

All right, Michael, it's time to go off and have our turkey sandwiches. I believe we're recording this on Friday morning. I haven't had breakfast yet. I'm gonna have a turkey sandwich for lunch with some cranberry sauce and a little bit of stuffing from the box from my catered meal, which was brought by friends and which was delicious. I was so relieved not to have to cook it. A lot of people thought that you were wrong to criticize me for being excited for having a catered meal in our comments. I'm just saying.

Michael Wolff (42:18)

Well, because it's a country of. Of, you know, of takeout diners. Because nobody cooks anymore. That's, you know, the. The. The cruel fact of being a modern American. Except for me, by the way.

John Avlon (42:35)

Yeah, you do cook, and you cook very well. I was actually defending to a couple of commentators your cooking because you do cook very well and you take it very seriously. I just feel I had years of feeding children, and so much as I love cooking enormous meals for friends, I was quite happy not to have to. This year.

Michael Wolff (42:53)

I just have to add, not as many years of feeding children as I have had.

John Avlon (42:59)

Well, true. Because I didn't have a second family. Your choice, my friend. Your choice.

Michael Wolff (43:03)

Or as many mouths.

John Avlon (43:07)

Definitely true. I couldn't possibly have afforded to have that many mouths.

Michael Wolff (43:12)

Because you don't have an Internet net worth.

John Avlon (43:15)

I don't have an Internet network. I'm not entirely sure I have a net worth at all, actually.

Paige Desorbo (43:19)

But.

John Avlon (43:19)

But there we go. So if you have been. Thank you for watching us, and please subscribe to the Daily Beast podcast. Subscribe to us on YouTube, on Apple, on Spotify, wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget to leave us a comment. We read them. I try and answer as many as I possibly can. I'm trying to think the other criticisms of you, Michael. I think there was one saying that you were accusing me of liking bland food because I was British and they didn't agree with that.

Michael Wolff (43:48)

Do you think that's a British person?

John Avlon (43:51)

I hope so. I hope we have some British listeners and I know we have a lot of shout out to Sydney. We have a lot of viewers, oddly in Australia. I think it's because when we put this podcast out at 9 o' clock in the evening on YouTube, it's 9 o' clock in the morning in Sydney or thereabouts. So anyway, down under. Thank you. Also, it's really not true because the most popular meal in Britain now is I think chicken vindaloo, which is pretty damn spicy. So it's not true that British people like bland things. It's true that a lot of British cooking is bland, yes.

Michael Wolff (44:26)

But a British curry is distinct from actually a curry.

John Avlon (44:31)

You know what makes it's pretty spicy though.

Michael Wolff (44:34)

You think it's bland.

John Avlon (44:37)

It's so not bland. Anyway, we can disagree to disagree, but I am going off to have a turkey sandwich. I'm feeling on the edge of blood sugar low.

Michael Wolff (44:45)

I've just been texted our B Beast members and I am which who I am. I am always fond of reciting their names.

John Avlon (44:56)

Honestly, it's a very good gift for a friend at Christmas or a relative at Christmas. A subscription to the Daily Beast podcast and a B Beast tier membership.

Michael Wolff (45:05)

And what you get with that subscription is me me reading your name as though it is a piece of poetry.

John Avlon (45:15)

I would actually listen to you reading the phone book, as they say. That was very good and we, we really appreciate their support. We're independent media and we love having.

Michael Wolff (45:25)

People support our B Beast members. Herbie Andrew Melor, Fulvia Orlando Las Condes, Sandra Clark M. Griner, Bonzo Val Love, Francisco Bocock, D.C. karen White, Heidi Riley, Connie Rutherford, Sharon Shipley, Andrea Hodel. Thank you, Devin, Anna and Jesse, as always.

Paige Desorbo (46:10)

Hi, it's Paige Desorbo from Giggly Squad. You ever stand in front of your closet and just say I have nothing to wear while you're literally surrounded by clothes? Because same so I started listing pieces. I'm over on Depop and honestly, it's been amazing. You can sell what you're done with and someone out there will love it it. And the best part about it is there's no seller fee, so the money you make actually stays in your pocket, which feels very chic. It's also insanely easy. I listed something while watching TV and it sold before the episode even ended. So download the Depop app and list your first item today because your old outfit could be someone else's new favorite. Depop where taste recognizes taste. Payment processing fees boosting fees still apply for more info, visit depop.com hey guys, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. And if you're anything like me, holiday shopping has officially started and you know where I'm going. Ulta Beauty they have the cutest gift sets right now like the Sol de Janeiro, Shea Rosa and Cheer Perfume Mist Trio. It smells so good. I've been misting it everywhere on me, on the street, on my pillow. It's a whole vibe. I'm obsessed with the Tarte Kindness Cafe Collector set. It's packed with everyday makeup, must haves and it's honestly too cute to wrap. And if you need a cozy little self care moment, the Moroccan Oil Hand Care Essentials Kit is luxe, hydrating and smells delicious. Don't worry if you can't decide right now. An Ulta Beauty gift card is the perfect gift for everyone. So whether you're gifting your bestie or yourself, make the season yours and head to Ulta Beauty today. Ulta Beauty gifting happens here. Hi, it's Paige Desorbo from Giggly Squad. You ever stand in front of your closet and just say I have nothing to wear while you're literally surrounded by clothes? Because same so I started listing pieces. I'm over on Depop and honestly, it's been amazing. You can sell what you're done with and someone out there will love it. And the best part about it is there's no seller fee, so the money you make actually stays in your pocket, which feels very chic. It's also insanely easy. I listed something while watching TV and it sold before the episode even ended. So download the Depop app and list your first item today because your old outfit could be someone else's new favorite. Depop where taste recognizes taste Payment processing fees boosting fees still apply. For more info, visit depop.com.

Michael Wolff (48:32)

Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily Beast podcast@thedailybeast.com podcasts if you enjoyed this.

Paige Desorbo (48:41)

Episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the Beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to thedailybeast. Com membership podcast and sign up today.