The Daily Beast Podcast

Episode: "We Can See Trump Is In Gross Decline: Psychologist"
Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: Dr. John Gartner (Clinical Psychologist, Former Johns Hopkins Professor)
Date: November 24, 2025

Overview

In this candid and energetic episode, Joanna Coles sits down with Dr. John Gartner, a clinical psychologist and renowned authority on political figures' mental health, to dissect the mounting signs of mental and cognitive decline exhibited by President Donald Trump. Drawing on years of observation and recent public incidents, Dr. Gartner provides a psychological evaluation of Trump, exploring the intersection of dementia, personality disorders, and stress in shaping his public behavior. The episode also addresses the broader implications for families dealing with dementia and the question of age-limits for presidents.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Markers of Dementia in Public Figures

• Dr. Gartner lays out how dementia exacerbates preexisting personality disorders, making individuals cruder, more disorganized, and impulsive (01:33).
  • Quote: "When people develop dementia, they become the worst versions of themselves...even more crude, disorganized, aggressive, confused versions of that personality disorder." (01:33 – Dr. John Gartner)
• Behavioral incidents such as difficulty with motor skills, language, and social inhibition in Trump are highlighted as symptomatic clusters.

2. Physical Symptoms: Motor Deterioration and 'Snoozing'

• Physical changes like struggle saluting on Veterans Day and a wide-based gait are discussed as potential outcomes of dementia or stroke (03:57).
  • "You do see he's having difficulty raising his hand to salute...on the right side of his body that he had the droop with the face." (03:57 – Dr. John Gartner)
• Trump's public episodes of involuntary sleeping—in court, at memorials, and the Oval Office—are deemed highly abnormal for a sitting president (30:02, 30:08).
  • "He fell asleep most days at his criminal trial...In your entire career, have you ever heard of any defendant in any case falling asleep at their trial?...They all said, I can't think of a single example." (30:08 – Dr. John Gartner)

3. Language Degradation and ‘Word Salad’

• Dr. Gartner asserts that Trump's language difficulty goes beyond ordinary fatigue or age-related memory lapses (08:03).
  • Phonemic paraphrasia (making up non-words) and "word salad" (severe thought disorder) point to degenerative cognitive issues.
  • Example: Trump's riff on "the American dream: a word that, two words, that you didn't have..." (18:41)
    • "It's hard to actually make up, even for a comedian, speech that is as disordered as the disordered speech of someone with schizophrenia or dementia...it's word salad." (19:48 – Dr. John Gartner)

4. Disinhibited and Impulsive Behavior

• Notable outbursts, such as "Be quiet, piggy," and impulsive policy decisions (e.g., canceling trade meetings over social media slights) exemplify psychological decline interacting with lifelong personality traits (11:09, 13:55).
  • "Who does that? Who calls up a high level meeting...because you got pissed off about something you saw on social media over your corn flakes that morning?" (13:56 – Dr. John Gartner)
• Dr. Gartner attributes much of this to malignant narcissism further unleashed by cognitive impairment.

5. Stress and Psychological Vulnerability

• Chronic stressors—such as litigation and negative public focus, most notably the "Epstein files"—can dramatically worsen symptoms for people with underlying vulnerabilities (15:43).
  • "If you're vulnerable the way he is, it's going to express itself even more dramatically...waves and waves of these threats...is going to take a toll." (15:43 – Dr. John Gartner)

6. Family Dynamics and Dementia

• Discussion about family members (e.g., Melania, Ivanka) stepping back possibly due to the challenges of living with someone exhibiting serious decline (47:51).

7. Medical Evidence and Secrecy

• Multiple cognitive tests and advanced imaging (MRI) ordered by Trump's doctors—details which leaked—indicate genuine suspicion of cognitive problems (09:20–11:09).
  • "We do not give people multiple cognitive tests unless we suspect there's a serious cognitive problem...If Donald Trump were just an ordinary patient...a responsible doctor would give him both a neuropsychological battery and an MRI." (10:15 – Dr. John Gartner)

8. Genetics, Alzheimer's, and Public Recognition

• Reference to Fred Trump Sr. (Trump's father) and familial Alzheimer's, insights from Mary Trump, and the universality of "the look" of dementia (21:01).
• Analysis extends to Biden and Reagan as points of comparison, with parallels and shared public confusion noted (22:05, 23:05, 39:38).

9. Age Restrictions for office

• Dr. Gartner supports implementing a straightforward age limit for presidential candidates as a protective measure for national security and effective governance (44:37).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Behavioral Deterioration

• "He's turned into the Mad Queen from Alice In Wonderland." (18:00 – Joanna Coles), referencing wild overreactions and punishment threats.

Language Disintegration

• "It's word salad. That's actually a technical term, believe it or not. Word salad for thought disordered speech." (20:02 – Dr. John Gartner)
• See the dramatic "McDonald’s summit" passage (35:53) as read aloud for its sheer incoherence.

On Covering Up Symptoms

• "Because of his grandiosity, he thinks everything that he does, thinks, says is wonderful. The best ever...when he's actually called out on these things, he double and triples down on them." (27:58 – Dr. John Gartner)

On Stress and Family Withdrawal

• "My aunt took care of [my uncle with dementia] for a whole year, and it was like super, a superhuman effort. So you're right. Now, who would want to be part of the nursing home at the White House?" (48:23 – Dr. John Gartner)

Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------|--------------| | 01:33 | Dementia amplifies bad personality traits | | 03:57 | Physical symptoms: trouble saluting, wide-based gait | | 06:03–09:20 | Language symptoms & “weird noises,” not just fatigue | | 11:09 | Disinhibited language (“Be quiet, piggy!”) | | 13:56 | Policy impulsivity due to deteriorating inhibition | | 15:43 | Effects of stress (Epstein files, litigation) | | 18:41 | Disintegration of language and numbers | | 20:02 | “Word salad” read-aloud and analysis | | 21:01 | Mary Trump & genetic Alzheimer’s parallels | | 23:05 | Recognition of “the look” in Biden and Reagan | | 27:58 | Denial and “cover-up” of symptoms: Trump's grandiosity | | 30:02 | Public sleeping episodes and pattern of decline | | 35:53 | Trump’s McDonalds “word salad” narrative | | 39:38 | Reagan’s cognitive decline compared; “Has the Gipper gone Gaga?” | | 44:37 | Argument for age-restrictions in high office | | 47:51 | Family withdrawal and difficulties caring for someone with dementia |

Resources and Concluding Advice

• When to seek help: If relatives show similar symptoms, bring them to a physician for neurological and neuropsychological evaluation (47:23).
• Limitations: No specific resource list offered, but underscores importance of clinical assessment.

Tone & Style

The episode balances medical seriousness with Dr. Gartner’s dry humor and Joanna Coles’ energetic, wry hosting style. The duo maintain a conversational but analytic tone, dissecting complex psychological concepts for a lay audience while peppering the discussion with memorable vignettes and pop culture allusions.

Summary

This episode provides a compelling and multidimensional exploration of the visible psychological decline of President Trump, pairing expert psychological insight with accessible public commentary. It serves as both a case study in dementia and a cultural assessment of how such decline is managed—or obscured—in high office, touching on the personal, political, and societal ramifications.