The Daily Beast Podcast

Episode: "What Trump Really Thinks of Women on His Team"

Host: Joanna Coles
Guests/Co-hosts: Michael Wolff, Hannah Berner
Date: December 12, 2025

Episode Overview

This sharp-witted, incisive episode dives deep into the roles and perceptions of women in Donald Trump's current administration, with a particular focus on key players such as Kristi Noem (dubbed "ICE Barbie"), Susie Wiles, Pam Bondi, and others. Joanna Coles, joined by Michael Wolff and Hannah Berner, dissects Trump's attitudes, hiring patterns, and the dynamics behind the appointments, especially concerning loyalty, competence, and public image. Through candid discussion, the hosts illuminate how Trump’s worldview shapes the women who find themselves in his inner circle, and why those roles tend to reinforce patterns of sycophancy and, sometimes, scandal.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Loyalty Economy in Trump’s Inner Circle

• Devotion Over Competence:

  • Trump’s team, especially the women in his administration, are described as “utter, total lackeys” whose main qualification is public devotion to Trump, regardless of talent or track record.
    • Michael Wolff (03:34):

      “He has successfully hired complete, utter, total lackeys…what you get fired for mostly is…getting too much press yourself or taking credit for being out front of Donald Trump.”

• Trump Only Fires When Challenged:

  • Staff are usually safe as long as they don’t attempt to claim credit or oppose Trump publicly. Disagreement in private is less likely to be career-ending due to Trump’s dominance in conversations.
  • “You remain Trump's guy if you are flattering enough...if you are perceived as loyal the way Trump demands you to be loyal.”
    — Michael Wolff (12:41)

Kristi Noem: The "ICE Barbie" and Her Rise

• Questionable Qualifications & Notoriety:

  • Kristi Noem, controversial for her “shot the puppy” story, is now Secretary of Homeland Security, despite being “patently no talent, a famous dummy...even in Trump world.”
    • Michael Wolff (14:31):

      “A person who has no experience, patently no talent, is a famous, even in Trump world, a famous dummy. There she is at the head of a very vital part of the government.”

• Corey Lewandowski’s Role:

  • Noem’s rise is attributed to her personal and professional relationship with Corey Lewandowski, Trump’s early campaign manager.
    • Hannah Berner (09:17):

      “It’s important to add that Kristi Noem’s denied that they're having an affair, but he travels with her wherever they go…he’s an official adviser with her.”

• Media Optics:

  • Noem is frequently seen “dressed up in costume” with various agencies, trying to “play a role” that’s tightly tied to Trump’s performative politics.
    • Hannah Berner (16:47):

      “She appears to love dressing up in costume, in the costume of whoever she's going out with…as if she's a Barbie doll alongside...her employees.”

The ICE Raids & Public Backlash

• Unpopular Enforcement Tactics:
  • “ICE Barbie” has become the face of controversial ICE raids, widely criticized due to viral videos showing masked agents, which damages the administration's reputation among the public.
    • Michael Wolff (17:17):

      “Masked men in black refusing to identify themselves, ripping people off the street, ripping people out of their homes, ripping families apart...what’s not to love?”

Susie Wiles: The Efficient, Yet Sidelined Chief of Staff

• Her Administrative Role:

  • Wiles, Trump’s first female Chief of Staff, is portrayed as an administrator, not a traditional powerful adviser.
    • Michael Wolff (19:20):

      “She doesn’t advise the President. She has been very careful about overstepping anyone in the executive branch who might have a direct relationship [with Trump].”

• Personal Survival vs. Presidential Interests:

  • Wiles is thought to primarily protect herself and her longevity, not Trump, creating distance between her and more influential inner-circle members.

The Cabinet Merry-Go-Round: Firing Bets & "Expendables"

• Kristi Noem on the Chopping Block?:

  • Betting markets tip Noem to be the first fired, but Wolff is skeptical, suggesting there are “so many other people up there” who are expendable.
    • Michael Wolff (22:34):

      “I couldn’t tell you [why Noem is #1]. I would put so many other people up there...You’re not going to lose anything by getting rid of her. So she would be a good person to sacrifice.”

• Trump's Reluctance to Fire:

  • Trump typically refuses to apportion blame to his appointees, instead maintaining that everything is “great”—making changes only under severe political pressure.

Other Notables: Pam Bondi, Alina Habba, Brooke Rollins

• Pam Bondi:

  • Appointed as Attorney General for her loyalty rather than her legal prowess, and heavily tasked with carrying out Trump's personal legal vendettas.
    • Quote (42:30):

      “He said...I may not have the best lawyers, but I’ve got the hottest lawyers.”

    • Pam Bondi’s Job:
      • “She is just going along. I really don’t think she has any...he’s on the phone with her constantly, basically giving orders.”
        — Michael Wolff (47:03)

• Alina Habba & Lindsey Halligan:

  • Both thrust into high-profile legal roles for which they’re barely qualified, emblematic of Trump’s preference for compliance over competence.
    • Michael Wolff (36:18):

      “She swears a lot, constantly...It is not as if people haven’t known that she is a not ready for primetime player.”

• Brooke Rollins & the Return of Jared:

  • Rollins, previously affiliated with Jared Kushner, signals the waxing and waning influence of various Trump world factions. Her appointment as Agriculture Secretary, especially in the wake of a $12 billion farmer bailout, reflects on shifting power dynamics behind Trump’s cabinet.

Women as Trump’s “Acolytes”: Resistance and Fallout

• Compliance vs. Independence:

  • Trump expects women on his team to “exist only in the shadow of Donald Trump,” but recent pushback from figures like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert shows this dynamic fraying outside the cabinet.
    • Michael Wolff (30:12):

      “We are here...to exist only in the shadow of Donald Trump and to try to please him as we can.”

• Marjorie Taylor Greene’s Defiance:

  • Her move from loyalist to vocal critic underscores Trump’s binary loyalty demand: “You’re with me or you're against me,” says Wolff (31:05), and those who push back quickly become targets.

Lighter Moments & Audience Engagement

• Holiday Party Speculation:

  • The hosts humorously imagine just how awkward holiday celebrations must be within Trump’s administration, comparing them to legendary British political parties.
    • Hannah Berner (49:00):

      “The imagination boggles at the holiday parties that must be going on in government departments right now.”

• Melania Trump Listener Questions:

  • The podcast ends with creative, irreverent listener questions for Melania, ranging from Social Security details to the odd burial of Ivana—bringing levity to an otherwise cutting analysis.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “[Trump hires] complete, utter, total lackeys…what you get fired for mostly is…getting too much press yourself or taking credit for being out front of Donald Trump.”
  — Michael Wolff (03:34)

• “Kristi Noem may be the real thing. Remember, she's the shot-the-dog person.”
  — Michael Wolff (06:11)

• “She appears to love dressing up in costume...as if she’s a Barbie doll alongside...her employees.”
  — Hannah Berner (16:47)

• “A person who has no experience, patently no talent, is … a famous dummy. There she is at the head of a very vital part of the government.”
  — Michael Wolff (14:31)

• “She doesn’t advise the President. She has been very careful about overstepping anyone in the executive branch who might have a direct relationship [with Trump].”
  — Michael Wolff (19:20)

• "I may not have the best lawyers, but I’ve got the hottest lawyers.”
  — Michael Wolff (quoting Trump, 42:30)

• "You remain Trump's guy if you are flattering enough...if you are perceived as loyal in the way Trump demands you to be loyal, then you remain Trump's guy."
  — Michael Wolff (12:41)

• “We are here not because we see an independent life for ourselves...we exist only in the shadow of Donald Trump and to try to please him as we can.”
  — Michael Wolff (30:12)

• “But now, what to do with Alina Habba?”
  — Michael Wolff (38:11)

Important Segment Timestamps

• 03:34 — The hiring of loyalists in Trump's team, what gets you fired
• 06:11 — Kristi Noem’s reputation and appointment background
• 09:17 — Lewandowski–Noem dynamic explained
• 14:31 — Noem’s lack of experience at the top of Homeland Security
• 16:47 — Noem as “ICE Barbie” and performative politics
• 19:20 — Susie Wiles’ true role as administrator, not adviser
• 22:34 — Discussion on who could be fired first, and why
• 30:12 — Wolff on women’s roles as acolytes in Trump’s circle
• 31:05 — Cabinet vs. outsiders; Marjorie Taylor Greene's pushback
• 36:18 — Alina Habba, Lindsey Halligan, and the “not-ready-for-primetime” threshold
• 38:11 — The continuous dilemma: what to do with ill-placed loyalists
• 42:30 — Trump's own words on picking "hottest" lawyers
• 47:03 — How Bondi executes Trump’s direct instructions
• 49:00 — Speculation on Trump administration holiday parties

Tone and Style

The conversation vacillates between razor-sharp analysis and tongue-in-cheek banter. Wolff is blunt, critical, and dryly humorous; Berner wields wit and irreverence; Coles (moderating, though less present) corals the insight into punchy, impactful exchanges. The style is accessible yet sophisticated—never missing an opportunity for a pithy aside or political zinger, lending the overall discussion both gravitas and mischievous energy.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is a must-listen for anyone eager to understand Trump’s management style, particularly regarding women within his administration. It unearths the messy, personality-driven logic by which appointments are made, the resulting tension, and the social optics at play. The dialogue also serves as a wry, cautionary tale about what happens when personal loyalty trumps all else in government—pun very much intended.

For a deeper dive, listen to the key segments identified above for direct insight from the hosts.