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- [00:00]
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- [00:33]
Paige Desorbo
Hey, I'm Paige desorbo and I'm always thinking about underwear.
- [00:37]
Hannah Berner
I'm Hannah Berner and I'm also thinking about underwear, but I prefer full coverage. I like to call them my granny panties.
- [00:43]
Paige Desorbo
Actually, I never think about underwear. That's the magic of Tommy John.
- [00:48]
Hannah Berner
Same. They're so light and so comfy. And if it's not comfortable, I'm not wearing it.
- [00:52]
Paige Desorbo
And the bras? Soft, supportive and actually breathable.
- [00:55]
Hannah Berner
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- [01:07]
Paige Desorbo
Plus, they're so cute because they fit perfectly.
- [01:10]
Hannah Berner
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- [01:11]
Paige Desorbo
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- [01:22]
Kara Swisher
ACAST powers the world's best podcasts Here's a show that we recommend.
- [01:32]
Ann Morris
Hey there. If you've ever felt your confidence slip at work, you're not alone.
- [01:37]
Joanna Coles
The good news?
- [01:38]
Ann Morris
Confidence isn't a fixed trait. It's a skill. And like any skill, you can build it with the right tools and practice. I'm Ann Morris, CEO and bestselling author, and together with my wife, Frances Frey, a professor at Harvard Business School, we host the TED podcast Fixable. This season, we're zeroing in on confidence, what it really is, how to strengthen it, and how to help others see you as the leader you already are. So if you're ready to show up with more conviction, to get promoted, to lead with clarity, to do the best work of your career, join us on Fixable. Wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:17]
Kara Swisher
Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.
- [02:27]
Joanna Coles
Kara, did you have any thoughts on Donald Trump saying that he actually didn't like his opponents, hated his opponents and didn't wish them well?
- [02:36]
Kara Swisher
Well, you know, it's him. He was describing himself. At least he was truthful, right But I think that was the absolute truth about himself.
- [02:44]
Joanna Coles
I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast and what a weekend. I don't know where to start. We have the Jimmy Kimmel of it all, we have the tick tock of it all. And then we have the Erica Kirk of all, who yesterday emerged as a remarkable figure giving a 30 minute speech at her husband's memorial, which I think spun her onto the landscape of the American viewer in an entirely new way. And I can't help wondering if we've seen a new direction for the Republican Party. Anyway, who better to talk to about all these issues and more. In fact, she's going to throw in some tips about longevity which she's been studying recently. But the broadcaster, the podcaster, the best selling author, Kara Swisher. Kara Swisher started her career as a tech journalist, but she's gone on to be so much more. She has an opinion about everything. Her best selling book, Burn Book came out last year and was a huge, a huge hit. And she is obviously the co host of the Pivot podcast with Prof. Scott G. Professor Scott Galloway. Two good friends of mine and I'm always curious to hear what Kara has to say about anything. So no time to waste. Let's get into it. All right, so Cara, let's get into it. I'm very curious about your thoughts on yesterday's memorial for Charlie Kirk in Arizona and in particular his widow, Erica Kirk.
- [04:16]
Kara Swisher
Well, it was a pretty low bar compared to most of the other speakers. I thought President Trump was doing a campaign rally as if he was at one of his rallies. It was a little bit untoward at someone's funeral of a friend. It seemed like he went autism to tariffs to Biden. I didn't think it had any. And then disagreed with Charlie Kirk's viewpoint.
- [04:36]
Joanna Coles
Right. And said he thought Charlie was angry with him for going off on his hate tangent.
- [04:40]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, I guess. I mean, you can make jokes at people at funerals, but, you know, but it seemed tasteless. Obviously Stephen Miller was disturbing. I hope he doesn't speak at my funeral because it was really disturbing.
- [04:52]
Joanna Coles
Well, hopefully you will outlive him because you, I know you're working on a longevity project which I want to come to later, but we're relying on you to live an until 120.
- [05:02]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. Most of them were not very good. I think Vance was okay because I think they were friends. I thought he handled it pretty well. Most of them were not very good. And it was a campaign rally to raise money or Political points or stuff like that. But I thought she did very well. I thought she handled it with a lot of class. I thought she talked about her husband and the right things. She didn't make it political. She made it about forgiveness. And I'd imagine it was extraordinarily difficult. She certainly presented a different face of, you know, what Christianity means to a lot of people, which is love and forgiveness and not hate. So I thought, you know, weirdly enough, from a political point of view, she positioned herself the best because she came off. I don't know if that was her goal here. I think it was to honor her husband. Obviously, they have kids together, but that's a. That's a high pressure moment. And I thought she handled it with a lot of grace and dignity. I'm not so sure I would have done a rally in a stadium for my husband if he died, but that's her choice, and which is. I can see why, you know, they had. They have big ties to that community. I'm glad they did it in Arizona versus somewhere else. Everyone else acted like it was a fundraiser for merch and all kinds of stuff.
- [06:19]
Joanna Coles
Right. I think there were a lot of hats being sold on the side.
- [06:22]
Kara Swisher
Hats. Yeah.
- [06:24]
Joanna Coles
I've often wondered what comes after Trumpism, because it's very clear that the people around Trump don't have the rich, they don't have the energy that he has. But I suddenly thought, watching Erica Kirk, and this may well have been incidental because she's clearly still in the first stages of grief after a horrifyingly violent death for her husband. But I thought, oh, we're seeing a turn here in the Republican Party, possibly. And I wondered if she might be. Is it implausible to think that she would be a good running mate for JD Vance?
- [06:58]
Kara Swisher
It was interesting. I don't know if it's a turn. I mean, she's obviously. He had said Kirk, if I recall, said she was more conservative than him, and he was pretty far down the conservative line. So, you know, I don't know if heavy duty Christianity is for everybody. Right. It certainly is appealing to that group, and she certainly could rally that group of people who believes in this, you know, sort of Christian nationalists is what it is, and who wanted to have, you know, one nation under God, indivisible kind of thing. And so I'm not sure she represents a very diverse group of people, you know, that kind of thing, but there's a lot of religious people. There's increasingly less religious people demographically over time, but they're a very committed group of people. I have a lot of people in my family who are, you know, different kinds of evangelicals from West Virginia and elsewhere. My aunt was. Her kids are. But they have a different Christianity. It's much more kind and open and diverse. My. My. My cousins. Well, not all of them, but some of them. So it just depends. It depends if she. If she modulates herself, I suppose, in some way to be accepting of other race, other religions and other ways of thinking of things. I don't know. I don't know much about her politics at all.
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Joanna Coles
Well, neither do I, but just seeing her yesterday, she's clearly a brilliant speaker. To be able to get up and address a stadium of 70,000 people, I thought was incredible, especially 10 days after something like that.
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Kara Swisher
Yeah, no, she's clearly got. She clearly was the secret sauce of him too. Like, she. Obviously, from what I understand, she was quite involved in the movement, Turning Point usa. And she also had a podcast. She's quite good at presentation. Her podcast is more religious, it seems like, talking about the Bible and things like that. So let's see if she makes the. She's clearly got power. I mean, right now, she's got a lot of power and she's. You don't want to compare her to people, but it depends on, you know, these people who survive. Very strong figures like Navalny, and they're not comparable at all, but they, you know, they can move the movement forward, whatever it happens, to be, on behalf of their husbands, their late husbands.
- [09:26]
Joanna Coles
Right. Like Julian Navalny for Navalny after he was poisoned.
- [09:31]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, yeah. It's a totally different. It's a completely different thing, but it's, you know, you've seen that happen many times before, but at the same time, you know, it just depends on what she wants to do. She does have two young kids. I know that just from reading about her. The family, you know, speaking. Having one parent present is critical, I think, in that. I think that too, personally. But it'll be an interesting and difficult journey for her, that's for sure.
- [10:00]
Joanna Coles
Yeah, I thought it was very interesting. Of all the people she called out, she called out UE Shavance, who really has disappeared in this administration and must find herself in a very awkward position being the daughter of immigrants and also having worked for a law company that specialized in helping companies with DEI in favor of DEI and not finding a husband that appears to stand against everything that you think she represents. I don't think this is why she was a Gates Scholar at Cambridge to support Stephen Miller's.
- [10:31]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, I think she's probably. Who knows? Who knows? People change, right? I don't know, but given her past history, there must be a silent scream inside. But I don't know. Who knows? You know, people do change and make shifts. I think she's my take on her and I don't know her at all. Obviously, really intelligent is. It's better to say nothing if you can't. You know, I mean, she doesn't. If she has to go out there, she's got to answer those questions and then she doesn't, because then she'd have to. Right. And then she'd have to be on their side, presumably. And I suspect she disagrees with some of it, but I don't know. She could have changed. Right. You never know.
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Joanna Coles
Yeah. Power changes people. The proximity to power.
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Kara Swisher
I have a lot of friends who have changed, you know, I have a lot of people I know who have changed really quite dramatically. So I don't know.
- [11:16]
Joanna Coles
Did you have any thoughts on Donald Trump saying that he actually didn't like his opponents, hated his opponents and didn't wish them well? That struck as an odd note at a memorial service.
- [11:29]
Kara Swisher
Well, you know, it's him. He was describing himself. At least he was truthful. Right. I don't know. I feel it was badly timed. I think he was trying to make a joke about how Charlie Kirk wasn't like that. You know, you try to find something funny at a funeral. But I think that was the absolute truth about himself. He really. That's how he feels about people. He really does. The thing is he does move on from and then becomes friends with people he hates or he has friends that then he hates and then they're friends again.
- [11:55]
Joanna Coles
Like Rupert Myrtle.
- [11:57]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, right. Or Elon Musk or whoever it happens to be. And so that's his M.O. but I mean, you know, it's completely on brand with him. Hate works for this man, just the way Hope worked for Obama. Right. And so he's really leaning into what.
- [12:12]
Joanna Coles
Works for him, which is great comparison, Hope versus hate. Well, look, there's so much going on that I want to talk to you about, and I think of you as someone who has, you know, very thought out opinions on all sorts of things. Where are we on the TikTok deal? Which would have got more attention on Friday had it not been for the build up to Arizona. So can you fill us in on the details and what you think may happen and why it's a big significance?
- [12:37]
Kara Swisher
Well, on pivot, we predicted the entire thing it's going to Larry Ellison, you know, he had already been involved in the first version of this effort by Trump to somehow protect Americans from China. But that's not at all what's happening here. It's a big payoff for his friends and people who've supported him, principle being Larry Ellison. Now, Oracle's fully able to handle something like this from a technical point of view, from a data point of view, but he's rewarding his friends. Whether it's Marc Andreessen, he was dangling it to the Murdoch, you know, it's all sort of a gimme to bring it in. The question is, are we. Is this really separate? I don't know. Like there's very little detail on what Congress has actually said has to happen, you know, which is a separate thing. But it seems like the Chinese are in there for 20%. And what does that mean? Where is the algorithm? What's the product going to be? There's very little detail except that there's going to be, you know, it's being put in the hands of his friends, people who have supported him. Whether it's Andreessen or Ellison, we'll see the list. Well, maybe not. We won't see the list, but the question is whether the product declines in some way and if those protections that Congress was so very worried about are actually in place. I would doubt it in terms of what they're doing. But we'll find out. We will find out. They must have. China is probably holding out for a better tariff deal, I suppose, but it doesn't seem like they're giving up much here. And I know when it first happened, Mark Cuban told me, it's useless without the algorithm. It's not a product. You're buying a brand. And so that's an issue. And then a bunch of old men explaining TikTok to us. I'm not so sure I want this gang of people in charge. Marc Andreessen's such a hip hop, happening guy.
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Joanna Coles
Well, he's got a hip hop hairstyle, I suppose, in as much as that is a thing. And who gets to keep the data?
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Kara Swisher
I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it's. Presumably it's your data, but I don't know. The Chinese already have some of the data. I don't know how they gate it. I guess they keep it in the United States, but, you know, there's been lots of reports that it moves over there. Like who? We're never going to see this algorithm, what it really is. And so that's the issue. We'll never know now because Donald Trump just wants to make a deal what the Chinese did. Like, I'd like to know, like, if we had, they're never going to give us control of the algorithm because they don't want us to know what they did. And so we'll never know, and we'll see. And then if they're not using the Chinese algorithm, which you've based your whole life on, on TikTok, it might not be as good for you. Right. I find, you know, in Instagram and threads really pushing ahead. Well, that's a different privacy issue. But in general, I think they're really growing quite strongly, and I hate to recommend them, but I would use threads and Instagram over TikTok any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
- [15:39]
Joanna Coles
Well, and also the reason to use TikTok, the reason to use threads and Instagram, is that, I guess it's better that it's owned by an American company than a Chinese company. Yes, sir. Does it make any difference if China sells, in theory, TikTok to America @ this point? Because they've been inside American culture for as long as they have four or five years at this point.
- [16:04]
Kara Swisher
I don't know. I don't know who's running the algorithm. Again, the unknowns are so massive here, and it certainly flies in the face of what Congress was trying to do. And it was passed by both houses of Congress and it was signed by President Biden. So it just. It's just not doing what it said it was doing, which was protect our citizens from both. Surveillance less so, I think is an issue than propaganda. And the question is, who is waiting the propaganda on this stuff? You know, Trump was against it before he was for it, which is because it shifted the algorithm in his favor, probably on purpose. So his campaign people went to him and said, hey, we like TikTok. Oh, and by the way, one of your biggest funders, like Stick Tok as an owner. Jeff.
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Joanna Coles
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it was Charlie, Kirk and Barron that went to Donald Trump and said, actually, TikTok's a good thing for you. You shouldn't be trying to ban it. And I think his first instinct to try and ban it was probably the correct one, which is, we don't want foreign adversaries meddling around in social media in our country.
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Kara Swisher
Right. We're not allowed to go over there and do it. I mean, it's just ridiculous. I mean, it's the whole thing. If, like, we used, at the time man. I wrote a piece of seven, eight years ago saying, I love TikTok. I use it on a burner phone. And I got all kinds of flack for that.
- [17:21]
Joanna Coles
Right, Right.
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Kara Swisher
It was a New York Times column and everyone was like, how dare you insult the Chinese? I'm like, I'm sorry, it's the Chinese Communist Party who wants to dominate the world. I feel like they shouldn't. You know, we don't get. We don't have asynchronous ability to influence its culture.
- [17:36]
Joanna Coles
Right. There's no reciprocity. We got. Google's not allowed in China.
- [17:40]
Kara Swisher
Well, they left. They left China to be fair. Because of spying. Because of spying. Because, you know, these are pernicious stealer of IP and pernicious surveillance. And, you know, it's one. I don't want to like Stack rank surveillance. It's one thing for Mark Zuckerberg wanting to sell us more crap or manipulate us in some way, and it's another thing for the Chinese Communist Party to do so.
- [18:03]
Joanna Coles
Right.
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Kara Swisher
So I suppose if I have to pick, which I don't like the choice.
- [18:07]
Joanna Coles
No, no. I love the idea of stack ranking, security and surveillance. That's a brilliant.
- [18:11]
Kara Swisher
They're surveilling us so they can sell us shit and he can do more MMN fighting, I guess.
- [18:15]
Joanna Coles
Right. And some of the shit they sell us I quite like. As I'm debating about whether or not to buy what a thing that keeps coming up on Instagram, which is a massager for your lymph nodes.
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Kara Swisher
Instagram has great ads. Always has.
- [18:26]
Joanna Coles
Yeah. And I'm like, how do you know? I need one of those? Brilliant. I do need.
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Kara Swisher
Yeah. I think Instagram and ads. It's a really interesting case in terms of quality. I mean, I think it's a quality product. There's lots of hair all over this stuff. You know, whether it's hate or surveillance or whatever. But it's a. It was always a good product when he bought it and it was a wonderful product when it. I was there when it started, when it had seven people and they've made it into a. He's very good at that. And I have to give kudos to them for both that and threads. So people like Twitter better, but I don't. I like threads and I like. I like Blue sky. I like both of them. I like competition. So I'm.
- [19:03]
Joanna Coles
Yeah. And it's hard to see who benefits more from a divided America than the Chinese.
- [19:07]
Kara Swisher
Right.
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Joanna Coles
Which is what I, you know, which is my anxiety about TikTok we're such dummies.
- [19:12]
Kara Swisher
They're. They're probably laughing their asses off.
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Joanna Coles
Oh, I'm sure they are. I'm sure they're bent double. I'm sure they're in the fetal position, laughing on the floor, as are the Russians.
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Kara Swisher
I don't feel they have a lot of respect for us as a nation.
- [19:23]
Joanna Coles
Well, it'd be fascinating to see how the deal gets done. So you've been very forthright about Bob Iger's decision to suspend indefinitely Jimmy Kimmel's show. There's been talk over the weekend that maybe Jimmy Kimmel comes back in some form. Do you think that that's likely so awkward.
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Kara Swisher
Oh, you know, this is already a show, all these shows. Not just Jimmy Kimmel's. I like, I think he's very talented and everything else. All these shows, as you know, I talk about the, you know, these are declining audiences and oddly enough, hacks had sort of presaged this, this idea of the economic challenges. Let's start with those.
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Joanna Coles
Right. And the storyline. Yeah, yeah.
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Kara Swisher
I mean, it was almost perfect in that last speech she gave when they tried to get her to fire the character Hannah Einbender plays. You know, these companies are struggling with late night because the costs, and that's no good. Like, I know everyone was like, oh, they cut them because of Trump. I'm like, they probably also got him because of cost, because they kept the south park people, which was doing well. Right. So if you make, you know, if you make audience, they'll. And make money for them, they'll keep you. That's the whole. That's always been. My point of view is that if you make money for people, they'll put up with a lot.
- [20:32]
Joanna Coles
Right. And people do watch. I mean, the audience has died, certainly late night, but they do watch it on YouTube and they watch it for free clips.
- [20:41]
Kara Swisher
Yes, they watch on clips, but that's not monetizable as much as the old system. And so.
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Joanna Coles
Right, exactly.
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Kara Swisher
There was a need to cut costs. There was a declining audience. Much of the popularity of it is on clips, which is hard to monetize. Right. And so, you know, you have that problem, period. Like, what do you do about these shows and how do you. But the first thing for Colbert you could have done is, let's see if we can cut costs and put you on streaming and blankety blank. There was never that. There was never. It's, oh, we have to cut you, like, without any kind of discussion about how to make it a much more economically Viable thing. So that gives me pause, like, oh, they did it because Trump. Like that. So that was pretty obvious to me. And she wanted, you know, they wanted that deal done, et cetera, et cetera, I think. And this was pre. The Ellisons, even. This was Shari Redstone, who really has turned out to be. Well, I'm not surprised. Anyway.
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Joanna Coles
Well, and I mean, I wonder if you've heard this too, but a few people had said to me, well, of course, David Ellison wants Stephen Colbert to be fired before the deal because he doesn't want to be the person to fire Stephen Colbert.
- [21:48]
Kara Swisher
Yes, yes, that's correct. He got lucky. He got lucky in that regard. And just the timing was good for him. I don't know what they would have done. They probably, I suspect Bob Iger was looking at the numbers and thinking, we got to do something about Late Night. This isn't working for us. But to do it in this way, right when Brandon Carr is acting like a ridiculous cartoon mobster, what a terrible public official he is. It looks so linked. It's so bright line. And especially after paying the $16 million over the George Stephanopoulos problem that they had. Now, in that case, I was not quite as critical because I thought, I bet there's emails, I bet there's texts, I bet there's. I think they would not have lost, but it would have been very embarrassing. That's my guess. I, like, I don't know. You know, Although Sherry Redstone gave in and they didn't do anything.
- [22:39]
Joanna Coles
So a friend of mine sat on a train coming back from D.C. to New York and said she was sitting opposite someone who was clearly a lawyer who hauled his enormous briefcase onto the table, opened it up and took out six files that literally said George Stephanopoulos.
- [22:59]
Kara Swisher
Oh, did it. That's terrible. I don't know. It just would have been a mess. It would have been a mess. It would have been a mess. I can see that one. I was like, oh, I bet there was something. Like, there's something that would have just kept it in the news. Trump would have taken advantage of it. What a mess. And, you know, you try to avoid that stuff. I wasn't quite as irritated by that one. This one's ridiculous. It looks like they were caving to both Sinclair and Next, which you can do that. And they can do whatever they want, by the way. Like, everyone's like, oh, they're so terrible. Like, they are so terrible. But they can do what they want if they want to. By the way, they have audiences of like rapidly aging populations watching local and broadcast news. So good luck. See what you can put in there and you know, buy some Golden Girls and go for it. I don't know what to say. I don't know what to program in those places. And they've tried to create news stations that have had no, no traction. Small, small, fine. Some of them are good, some of them are bad. Small. And so. And not. Certainly not. Wow, what an incredible business. And, and so you have to decide what to do. But in this case, Iger, the bright line is so clear. What happened here? So he looks like a quisling. He really does. He really does. Which is a great disappointment to me. I happen to like Bob Iger quite a bit. We have a very good relationship and I was sort of shocked that he did this because the only thing I can think of, he was very disturbed by the Elon attack on him at that New York Times thing. I think it really shook him was.
- [24:25]
Joanna Coles
This when Elon Musk said go fuck yourself over the app, Bob.
- [24:30]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, right.
- [24:31]
Joanna Coles
This was at the Dealbook conference.
- [24:32]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. I think he was shocked and surprised by it and was. I think it made him nervous. Although I don't care, he gets paid the big bucks, so suck it up sister. You know, kind of thing. And the other part is I think when those Nazis appeared in front of Disney, Disney World, remember they were marching around like the neo Nazis. I think that was bothers like really worrying. I think they were worried about attacks at Disney, etc. Etc. Like I think he's got bigger. That's my guess. This is the only thing I can think of is the other businesses are very vulnerable to all manner of violence and so that's sort of the nightmare scenario for Disney. I suppose. So I'm not sure what went through his hood. I mean I talked to a lot of other moguls, fellow moguls who are friends of him and every note is despicable. What a despicable move. What a weak willed person. This is typical a lot of them. This is what he's like. And I'm like I don't know, maybe, I don't know. But to me he's really made a mess of it and probably regrets coming back to, to you know, save Disney from Bob Chapek who's probably laughing also laughing his ass off somewhere.
- [25:37]
Joanna Coles
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- [26:36]
Boland Branch Bedding Announcer
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- [27:10]
Paige Desorbo
Hey, I'm Paige desorbo and I'm always thinking about underwear.
- [27:13]
Hannah Berner
I'm Hannah Berner and I'm also thinking about underwear, but I prefer full coverage. I like to call them my granny panties.
- [27:20]
Paige Desorbo
Actually, I never think about underwear. That's the magic of Tommy John.
- [27:24]
Hannah Berner
Same. They're so light and so comfy and if it's not comfortable, I'm not wearing it.
- [27:28]
Paige Desorbo
And the bras? Soft, supportive and actually breathable.
- [27:32]
Kara Swisher
Yes.
- [27:32]
Hannah Berner
Lord knows the girls need to breathe. Also, I need my PJs to breathe and be buttery, soft and stretchy enough for my dramatic tossing and turning at night. That's why I live in my Tommy John pajamas.
- [27:43]
Paige Desorbo
Plus they're so cute because they fit perfectly.
- [27:46]
Hannah Berner
Put yourself on to Tommy John.
- [27:48]
Paige Desorbo
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- [28:30]
Joanna Coles
Thank you to our sponsors. We're back with Kara Swisher talking About everything. It's a fascinating story. Bob Iger, isn't it? Because he resides absolutely at peak Disney at the top of his career. He leaves. He appoints Bob Chapek. Bob Chapek inherits Covid, which is terrible for the Parks. And then Bob Iger basically comes back having agitated against Bob Chapek. And it was all chronicled in a somewhat embarrassing piece for everybody concerned I think in the New York Times. So they hung their laundry out there and now he must be somewhat ruing the day especially because his wife is head of the Annenberg School of Journalism at usc.
- [29:10]
Kara Swisher
Yes, that's true. She's. I've, I've gone to that. Her classes there. You know, she's a. That must. I mean it's not her fault. Like I'm sorry, I just. I don't know what to say because. But she must be beside herself. What's she going to tell the students? There's no there. What can you tell? You can say things to the PR students which who also are there but you could also like what do you say to the journalisms? There's nothing to say except silence and. Which is the worst thing in the world. And you know, I don't suspect. I'm not sure. I guess he wants to go out on a high note and bring Disney stock up. Right.
- [29:42]
Joanna Coles
Yeah. Which has consistently underperformed the.
- [29:44]
Kara Swisher
Right. So I suspect he wants to not have it go on a low note. Go out in a low note. And you know, he's still been so slow in picking his. Picking his successor and what he does, he gets sucked into the. I think he was trying to keep his head down with Trump. That's what I suspect because you didn't hear him like after the vaccine. Vaccine thing in Florida. I actually text him. I'm like, are you saying nothing about this vaccine? Like these crazy anti vax people running the state. I said I'm not bringing my children there. Like, you know what I mean? Like he didn't respond which he always responds which was interesting to me. I think he just is weary of having to dive into this stuff. Right. I suspected that said again, you're making the big buck star. So.
- [30:25]
Joanna Coles
Right. But very difficult to manage it and keep the creative community on.
- [30:31]
Kara Swisher
Well, they're mad they're here.
- [30:32]
Joanna Coles
Well and John Oliver last night on Last Week Tonight saying boycott Hulu, boycott Disney. That. That felt like a moment.
- [30:40]
Kara Swisher
There's a lot of them, you know, they try to make the comparisons which is interesting to. What's Jean, what's that Woman who was on one of the Star wars things. Very conservative.
- [30:49]
Joanna Coles
Oh, yes, I know who you mean. I can't remember the. Yeah, I can't remember her name, but I know exactly what you mean.
- [30:55]
Kara Swisher
Right.
- [30:55]
Joanna Coles
Which.
- [30:56]
Kara Swisher
That's a better comparison, I guess, but it's. Kimmel didn't say anything wrong. This is the problem. And you know, Roseanne Barr, like, Roseanne Barr said truly heinous things about Valerie Jarrett. I mean, like, like astonishingly horrible things. This is not even a close comparison. So that's not even. Doesn't even work. I, I suppose, you know, they had, like, compared to Roseanne, I was like, are you kidding?
- [31:19]
Joanna Coles
Right. And Roseanne was their number one show and they canceled it.
- [31:22]
Kara Swisher
He possibly made it kind of had a fumbled language. I knew what, I heard what he was saying, which was they're trying. He was describing the situation. The right wing was trying everything they could do to make this person trans. Right. Trans bullets. Trans. He's trans. No, there's a partner. And again, none of it matters because the partner didn't shoot. If the partner is trans, and I don't even know this. They didn't shoot. What does it have to do with, you know, like as Scott said, is he had a girl, he had a girlfriend at ASU wherever in Utah that was a MAGA person. That wouldn't have mattered either. Right. The grandmother said the family was maga. Doesn't matter. This is a single person who did this. And if you can't make a larger conspiracy theory work, which they're not going to be able to, I don't really care. Like anything else, we had said that on pivot. Right away, we're like, this is just a nihilistic young man trying to, to pin one side or the other on him is not going to work here because we get, we get this guy.
- [32:21]
Joanna Coles
Well, and also almost by definition, anybody that takes a rifle and shoots somebody else like that has some sort of mental issues. Right. To me, they're already mentally ill if they're out there murdering people.
- [32:31]
Kara Swisher
That's right. But it's just this idea of team. And he was making an observation. That's my thing is like everyone's. And he could have said the same thing about the left trying their hardest to make this guy MAGA or whatever. And in some cases, it seems like he didn't vote. He never voted. He didn't have a political affiliation. It doesn't matter that his family was maga. It doesn't matter if his roommate was trans. It doesn't matter none of it matters. And I think the linking between I gotta make tough calls on Bob Iger is ridiculous. It's a ridiculous comparison. It's only because of the MAGA making something of it. The groups that are professional irritants, they're trying to make a big deal. The pressure was there and they've been under that pressure. Remember the gay boy? The Christians weren't going to go to Disneyland because of the gay thing.
- [33:18]
Joanna Coles
That didn't work out.
- [33:19]
Kara Swisher
Gays turned out to be excellent goers of Disney, so it didn't matter.
- [33:24]
Joanna Coles
Well, they love princesses. They love princesses. Gay men love princesses.
- [33:27]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, exactly. And so that didn't work. So you have to really battle inaccurate, boycott or pre put up with it. That's the way the world is right now.
- [33:37]
Joanna Coles
Yeah. So what do you think about Jay Leno's point that why have all the comedian, the late night comedians lent in to the Democrats? Because you automatically lose half of your audience. I'm not unsympathetic to that because Jimmy Kimmel was.
- [33:55]
Kara Swisher
I agreed with that.
- [33:56]
Joanna Coles
Yeah. Jimmy Kimmel was hired as a comedian and has become much more political and sort of taken on the mantle of the trend at Comedy Central, which, you know, was kicked off by Jon Stewart and then very effectively taken up by Stephen Colbert. But I can understand if you're a Republican, moderate or even maga, that every night watching this would be annoying.
- [34:17]
Kara Swisher
Yes. But you go over to Greg Gutfeld, to me, one of the things I talked about was the problem with late night was they're all the same. It's like three news stations like ab, abc, NBC and cbs, like, they're all the same. Like, you can't. You can in this market. You can't have that many. That's my issue. It's not what they're saying. You can have a point of view and then try to serve that audience the way FOX does. Or Greg Gutfeld, who I don't find particularly funny. But the. Everyone's like, he's so popular. Like, he's the only one that's doing it. That's why it's like. It reminds me, you know, when Walt and I had the code conference, we were the only ones doing it. And then everyone copied us. And then it got harder, the business got harder. And so it seems like there are too many people doing the same thing. Right. If I were Bob Iger, I would have said, you know what, we got a cost problem. We got a perception. We got to do something. Let's just put him on streaming they can't touch us over on streaming. Let Brandon Carr do what he likes on this other stuff. Let him actually, like, you know, I hate to beat Mel Robbins, but let them. Let them cut our. Let's see if they can do it. I would have hired the best five law firms terms and fought that asshole right into the ground. And he would have lost. He would have lost and it would have been, you know, even the right has problems with this call by Brendan, right?
- [35:28]
Joanna Coles
I mean, even Ted Cruz, I mean, Bernie Sanders coming out and saying for the first time ever, he agrees with Ted Cruz. Because Ted Cruz is saying, this is a rod for our own backs. The Democrats will use it.
- [35:38]
Kara Swisher
Well, they're mostly. They're going to do it to us. That's their whole thing. Because, you know, he's not worried about Jimmy Kimmel getting hurt. He's worried about they're going to do it to us someday. Yeah, that's exactly fine. Whatever gets you to gets you there. It's fine by me.
- [35:53]
Joanna Coles
So do you think that a possible solution to this, because Bob Iger must be sort of head in hands trying to figure out how he got here, and they obviously underestimated the fallout from it too, because he's clearly sensitive about his reputation, is a solution that they go on streaming? Could they just put Jimmy Kimmel on Hulu every night?
- [36:11]
Kara Swisher
I would have done that, period. I would have been like, let's put him on streaming. Let's cut some costs. Like, I think you had 200 people. That's an incredible amount of people. Sorry, that's too many in this. And then figured out like something really interesting. Like, could you have hired Colbert? I mean, if I were Ted Sarandos and they never miss over there. I mean, now K Pop, if I have to listen to one more K Pop Demon Hunter song right now with my kids, like, it's crazy. It goes from age 3 to 18. Like it's nuts. You know, if I were them, I'd be like, what can I do with this guy? Like, what Interesting thing now again, these guys are older. Like, it doesn't necessarily K Pop Demon Hunters is hitting a young demo. But it's hitting me too, by the way. I think it's wonderful. What can you do? What would. If I were Ted Serenis and be like, what can I do with this? What opportunity?
- [37:00]
Joanna Coles
Yeah, what moment is this? Well, and he was, I always think he was very strong over the Dave Chappelle incident too. That he was like, Dave Chappelle is a comedian. He should be allowed to do his show and do his thing.
- [37:11]
Kara Swisher
Yeah, we had. The only issue I had with Dave Chappelle is like, do we need an hour and a half of bashing trans people? That's not very funny. Like, if you're good. They were like, oh, you're mad because he does lesbian jokes. I'm like, I love a lesbian joke. Trust me. I'm the least offended person. I work with Scott Galloway. I've got to be right.
- [37:26]
Joanna Coles
I was gonna say, he gives you a lot of lesbian jokes.
- [37:28]
Kara Swisher
I know, but it's like my issue was, this is a group of people that is under siege. Do you need an hour and a half of bashing them or. Amazing.
- [37:37]
Joanna Coles
It wasn't an hour and a half. It was. It was like two minutes.
- [37:40]
Kara Swisher
Is there anything else we can make fun of? Like, I don't know. I felt, like, bored, actually, was my biggest issue. But I agree with you. I think he was right in that move. There's an opportunity here for someone. I mean, especially with Kimmel, because I think he's quite an interesting character. Like, I think he's a really interesting and talented and possibly innovative person. I don't know. He could do very well in podcasting. He could do very well. There's all kinds of moves. It might be, like, the biggest gift to him because I would think running, I mean, I think that's what hacks really. The idea of running a late night show is so heavy now. It's not where it was. It's not where people go, you know, what could you do that? You could lighten up. You know how much happier I am that I'm not at a big institution.
- [38:25]
Joanna Coles
Right, right. Well, the oppressive hand of a corporation, especially at the moment when people are concerned about Donald Trump and. And the sort of punitive nature of him. Yeah. If I were him, I would probably go to YouTube. I think YouTube seems like the perfect place for him.
- [38:39]
Kara Swisher
Yeah. Or something like, look at Louis ck and I don't really want to see his penis.
- [38:45]
Joanna Coles
You don't want to see Louis CK's penis. Someone told me he was back and I was like, oh, good. Is he masturbating still back.
- [38:52]
Kara Swisher
He's always me. He's done very well with his YouTube stuff. He really pioneered that. And so did, of all people, Glenn Beck. There's a lot of people that did that. And you have to, like, sort of give it to all these people who are doing these things because they. If you're good at it. Like, Don Lemon recently has really. I've started noticing he's going on the street with that thing. And I'm like, huh, this works. This works for me. I don't know how well it works with an audience yet, but I kind of like it. It's kind of interesting. And so it frees people to be creative and will see if Jimmy Kimmel can do that.
- [39:25]
Joanna Coles
Yeah. And it's also about the changing nature of journalism, isn't it? And Don Lemon, I think, gets more viewers now than he did when he was on cnn.
- [39:32]
Kara Swisher
And he looks like he's having a ball, like, whoever it happens to be. I did a whole show on this because I'm so sick of this media doom and gloom stuff where I had Oliver Darcy, Dave Takes Pictures, who used to work for the. For the Washington Post, and Katie Drummond, who was at a, you know, Conde Nast publication. But she's really invigorating, wired. And I do think there's ways to invigorate media in a. And I wanted different things to show. Like, look, she's at a big name, but she. What she did is she leaned into Doge and covered the shit out of it and beat everybody, got all these subscribers, and now she's doing these other things. And so I'm really interested in what people are doing that works really well. That isn't. I don't like shoddy stuff, and I still don't like the shoddy stuff, so.
- [40:15]
Joanna Coles
Well, then I think what works is having a point of view. Right.
- [40:18]
Kara Swisher
Well, I'd rather have me to be accurate. I think I have. I have certain standards that I think. No, I don't think it's just a point of view. I think it's a point of view that gives people good information. Like, even if it has, like, truthful, not neutral. Was my. When Christiane Amanpour said that, I really thought that's exactly. You don't have to be neutral when you come, but you have to make your case for your. Your thing and it not in a manipulative way. Right. Which is what Trump does all the time. Like, speaking of last night's thing was such a performance. Like, you know, Elon putting a picture of For Charlie, us together. Like, why do you have to post that? Why don't. If it's for Charlie, keep your mouth shut? Like, you saw he posted a picture of him and Trump and said, for Charlie, it's not for Charlie, it's for Elon. Like, it's never that. To me, if you're doing things genuinely, you tend to attract a really good audience. If you genuinely are expressing yourself.
- [41:12]
Joanna Coles
Right.
- [41:12]
Kara Swisher
Which is the strength of Charlie Kirk, whether you like him or not.
- [41:14]
Joanna Coles
Yeah. What did you make of Donald Trump and Elon Musk shaking hands?
- [41:19]
Kara Swisher
And it's just ridiculous. Just come on. Like I was so. Look, whatever. Whatever it takes for Elon to continue to soil himself, that's what he's going to do.
- [41:29]
Joanna Coles
Kara, we're going to take a break and get some advertising.
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Joanna Coles
And thank you to our advertisers. We love you. And we're back with Kara Swisher So one of the things you're working on at the moment, besides the on podcast and the Pivot podcast and everything else you do, is you're working on a series on longevity. And I noticed before we sat down, you were drinking Kefir. What are the things we should do? Assuming we want to live and watch what happens to the rest of the Republican Party, what should we be doing to stay alive longer, healthier?
- [44:04]
Kara Swisher
Well, let me just preface it by saying I had got. I had sat in so many dinner parties with tech people who were lecturing me on all manner of bullshit, and I was always like. And I'd look into it and be like, huh, that's untrue. At the same time, there's all these astonishing things happening, AI and cancer, gene folding, or all these amazing developments happening about learning about the human body and longevity, that I wanted to sort the chaff, the wheat from the chaff. Like, this was really irritating to me to have to listen to these narcissistic fox explain to me how they're like Soylent, whatever. It happens to be years and years of terrible dinner parties. And so, you know, I'm always sort of interested in what they're doing because some of it has a lot of efficacy. Some of it is just nonsense. And so I just decided my next book would be about this, largely because I want it to be hopeful because there's all this amazing stuff, whether it's, you know, even some space travel, some space stuff, not all of it. Some of it, you know, food, all kinds of things. So I thought it would be really an interesting thing. So that was my next book, and I'm working on a documentary about it. A documentary about it for. For cnn. And I'm not supposed to be talking about. But I don't care. But it's really interesting. It's. It's really interesting. So some. So what we're doing is we're trying the kooky stuff, like the red light stuff or the hyperbaric chambers. I know you want to get in one.
- [45:20]
Joanna Coles
I'm going into one this afternoon.
- [45:22]
Kara Swisher
You don't need more air? I told you. I'm so sorry.
- [45:24]
Joanna Coles
I need more oxygen. I'm gasping.
- [45:27]
Kara Swisher
More oxygen. I keep telling her this. Do you want to hand over the mic? Money makes you. It's.
- [45:31]
Joanna Coles
It's vaguely dangerous, but it's supposed to. It's supposed to help your repair cells.
- [45:38]
Kara Swisher
What? No, it doesn't. It doesn't. It helps you if you are. You know, if you get the bends. That's for sure. If you have a wound. Yes. You don't need.
- [45:47]
Joanna Coles
I have the psychological bends every day just thinking about what's going on in dc.
- [45:51]
Kara Swisher
It makes you feel better and you don't throw an embolism. I'm happy for you. Whatever. So one of the things. But a lot of it's nonsense. Like Scott and I did this sound bath, which I actually liked. Like some of it's just like it was very pleasant to be in a sound bath with Scott Galloway kind of things. Other stuff.
- [46:07]
Joanna Coles
Doesn't mean that sounds very weird to be in a sound bath with Scott Galloway.
- [46:10]
Kara Swisher
Video of it. Wait till you see the video of it.
- [46:12]
Joanna Coles
Is he. Please tell me he's wearing at least a Speedo.
- [46:15]
Kara Swisher
He is wearing at least a Speedo. Don't worry. It was really funny. It's a really. Because they look like these weird wombs and stuff. So. So we did all the crazy stuff. But at the same time I'm interviewing people like Jennifer Doudna, who did CRISPR and some of the stuff. And there's all these amazing things going on at these university research, which is why it's grotesque that they're cutting funding to them around cancer, around using AI and solving pancreatic cancer, liver cancer, sickle cell anemia, like. And also what helps with longevity. So I'll get to that. So a lot of it, which is incredible. That's what I've been searching for is what works is really quite dull. There's no. You know, a couple things. The vaccines are really helpful. Thank you, Robert fucking Kennedy Jr. You asshole. Vaccines have been MRNA vaccines, not just around Covid, but around cancer. There's some really interesting movement going on.
- [47:06]
Joanna Coles
That's an HPV vaccine, right?
- [47:09]
Kara Swisher
An hpv. That's insulting. Incredibly effective. Has cut deaths down rather dramatically. The second thing is these GLP1s and stuff like that. A lot of that stuff. And there's about to become a pill for it, you know. So you take a pill. Amazing stuff happening there. And we did a lot of. We talked to David Kessler and stuff like that. And all these regular people that are taking it. Really interesting stuff around. Not just weight, but addiction. All kind. It's a question whether it can. Quite a lot of addictions, drinking, gambling, things like that. That's a critically important new area. Another one is sleep is being studied, obviously, and the quality of sleep and everything else. Another one is less so much exercise as movement and the most important things. Movement and getting, you know, moving around and stuff. But what the area. Of course, I'm most interested in is. And it's turned out to be from a study point of view, the most important thing, which is friendships and meeting people you don't know and being in a social situation and the isolation that's caused by online is really debilitating to our longevity. Like in terms of. And it leads to terrible things like this shooter who was extremely online. It leads to lots and lots of problems which we don't know yet. And so we're looking at that a lot because one of the things that literally in the Harvard Happiness study, the number one thing is being with friends and family and also trying new things, trying a different. Trying a different thing. Meeting people, even just talking to people on the street in more than a hello way like, hi, how you doing? What's going on? It increases your life. It's crazy. Like all these studies show this over and over and over again when everyone's looking for this magic elixir, which is a great word actually the basic stuff which is being around other human beings is the biggest indicator of longevity.
- [49:07]
Joanna Coles
Yeah. I think Dan Leverton in his book Successful Aging talks about the single most important thing as an older person you can do is talk to a younger person that you don't know.
- [49:17]
Kara Swisher
I did that this weekend.
- [49:18]
Joanna Coles
Oh, you did? Well, you've got kids.
- [49:21]
Kara Swisher
I went out with an 83 year old who's sculling a bunch of older people and they, they were talking about that idea of putting together. There's a great idea about putting together younger people who need housing with older people who need companionship and creating really good for both groups. Right. Incredibly good. Not just from a financial point of view, but from like there is something about other human beings that makes you live longer. Like it actually. Does it change? I did, I did a. I played a game night with young people with. With a neurosurgeon, a neuro. Excuse me, a neuroscientist. Yeah. About brain plasticity around all kinds of stuff. Now there'll be medical interventions, but a lot of it has to do with. With people like, I know it's crazy to get to this conclusion, but every study, you know, a lot of stuff is based on kind like this whole idea about blue zones. It's just nonsense, just nonsense. It's just nonsense. Like, and that's the problem is there's no like this idea of an elixir is really has been with us in the beginning of time. Right. Whether it's the fat pogs de Leon or whatever. But there isn't. The answer is People. Which is kind of funny. The other answer is be rich, don't.
- [50:33]
Joanna Coles
Be poor, or be with rich people.
- [50:35]
Kara Swisher
Be with rich people, which you're good at. Don't be poor.
- [50:40]
Joanna Coles
Okay. Don't be poor. Drink kefir and have lots of company.
- [50:44]
Kara Swisher
Well, one of the things is this whole protein. This is. This is like 10 grams of protein, but there's also too much protein. Now, a lot of bros or some of the bro guys who help them. Peter, they are like 109 pounds of protein A day. This is not good.
- [50:57]
Joanna Coles
Okay, and can you answer, should we be drinking protein shakes? Yes or no? That always strikes me as A, they're disgusting, and B, it feels wrong. But are they actually good for us?
- [51:07]
Kara Swisher
No. Anything with a lot of stuff in it. Like, you have to look at it. If it's just, you know, some protein, meat, whatever. I use plant proteins. I don't like whey. I don't like the taste of it.
- [51:17]
Joanna Coles
But I feel like every young man I meet is hauling around an enormous plastic tub of whey protein or pea protein. And I'm like, just eat a bag of peas.
- [51:26]
Kara Swisher
No, it's ridiculous. It's fine. It's just. They want to. If a lip. Just like with you and this hyper. If a little oxygen is good, a lot of oxygen is better. If a little water is good, a lot of it's not. Let me just say. And a lot of protein is. That's one thing that's not this whole, like, obsession. You do need a lot of protein, but not the kind like yogurt in the morning. Greek yogurt, great with some fruit, you know, a lot of fiber. You should. Is this. It's kind of. It's the Mediterranean diet, essentially.
- [51:56]
Joanna Coles
Right.
- [51:57]
Kara Swisher
Which is.
- [51:57]
Joanna Coles
It's sort of common sense and moderation in all things.
- [52:00]
Kara Swisher
This is the only area I agree with Robert Kennedy. Processed foods are killing us, like, really truly, you know, and that. That'll be. That's a very difficult thing to push back on, obviously. But the diabetic industrial complex is really quite strong. And so a lot of these ozempic things, just whatever it happens to you is really interesting, especially people who are poor, who are in food deserts who don't have the ability yet to kind of an interesting. It'll be interesting to see if the government takes a hand here as long as it's tested and. And use. But that to me, everyone I talk to doctors are like, these GLP1s are really interesting and we should really focus. I mean, I know it's fun to make fun of, like, rich people on them, but actually all kinds of.
- [52:43]
Joanna Coles
They seem like miracle drugs. And as you say, the idea that they're rewiring the brain to not want to do addictive things feels very powerful.
- [52:52]
Kara Swisher
Well, because you were brought addicted to it by the diabetic industrial or the processed food complex. And so those are all engineered so that you would. You would do it. But don't. You don't eat a lot. Like, don't. Don't suddenly go crazy. I do kefir because I don't like yogurt, so I happen to like kefir. It's also fermented. Also good for you. That kind of stuff. And I eat kiwi. Kiwi. Kiwi's really good.
- [53:14]
Joanna Coles
I bought some kiwis the other day because you told me I should be eating golden kiwis. Say they're still sitting in the fridge.
- [53:19]
Kara Swisher
Let me just say, don't get the green ones, get the gold.
- [53:22]
Joanna Coles
I didn't even know there were gold.
- [53:23]
Kara Swisher
You can get them in Chinatown. You live in New York. Golden kiwis.
- [53:26]
Joanna Coles
All right, I'll one.
- [53:27]
Kara Swisher
You'll like them. Okay, get one. Golden. You don't need to buy a lot, just get a few. They're full of all kinds of good things. All fruit and vegetables are. You should be eating whole fruits and vegetables.
- [53:41]
Joanna Coles
I can't think of a subject that I don't want to discuss with Kara Swisher, but there you have it. TikTok, you have Eric Kirk, you have what's happening with Bob Iger and Jimmy Kimmel, and you've got tips for how to live a longer, healthier life, which is kiwis. The golden kind, not the green, furry kind. Kefir, fermented yogurt drink. And company. Lots of company. Young company, old company company. Perhaps we will have government sponsored dinner parties. That would be my favorite thing, where the government just supplied me with a chef to come round. And then I will throw people together around my table, which is my favorite thing to do. So I'm hoping I live a long life. Anyway, if you have been, thank you for joining us. Don't forget to subscribe to the Daily Beast podcast wherever you subscribe, wherever you listen to your podcasts, leave us a comment and join our community on YouTube. You get lots of extra benefits. And don't forget, as our first lady, briefly seen in Windsor Castle, would have us be beast. And thank you to our production team, Devon Rogerino, Anna Von Erson, and our editor, Jesse Millwood. And a shout out to our special beebeast level members of the Daily Beast community, Connie Rutherford, Heidi Riley and Karen White, thank.
- [55:05]
Kara Swisher
You.
- [55:06]
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- [55:39]
Paige Desorbo
Hey, I'm Paige desorbo and I'm always thinking about underwear.
- [55:42]
Hannah Berner
I'm Hannah Berner and I'm also thinking about underwear, but I prefer full coverage. I like to call them my granny panties.
- [55:48]
Paige Desorbo
Actually, I never think about underwear. That's the magic of Tommy John.
- [55:53]
Hannah Berner
Same. They're so light and so comfy. And if it's not comfortable, I'm not wearing it.
- [55:57]
Paige Desorbo
And the bras? Soft, supportive and actually breathable.
- [56:01]
Kara Swisher
Yes.
- [56:01]
Hannah Berner
Lord knows the girls need to breathe. Also, I need my PJs to breathe and be buttery, soft and stretchy enough for my dramatic tossing and turning at night. That's why I live in my Tommy John pajamas.
- [56:12]
Paige Desorbo
Plus they're so cute because they fit perfectly.
- [56:15]
Hannah Berner
Put yourself on to Tommy John.
- [56:17]
Paige Desorbo
Upgrade your drawer with Tommy John. Save 25% for a limited time at tommyjohn.com comfort. See site for details.
- [56:26]
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- [56:59]
Kara Swisher
Want more great listens?
- [57:01]
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Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily Beast podcast@thedailybeast.com podcasts if you enjoyed this.
- [57:09]
Kara Swisher
Episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the Beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to thedailybeast.com membership podcast and sign up today.