What Trump's Tacky WH McMansion Plans Reveal: Lemon

Summary

---

The Daily Beast Podcast: "What Trump's Tacky WH McMansion Plans Reveal"

Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: Don Lemon
Release Date: October 27, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this lively, sharp-edged episode, Joanna Coles and Don Lemon dig into the extraordinary news that President Donald Trump has demolished the White House East Wing—without congressional approval—to build a grand ballroom. The pair connect this “McMansion” renovation to broader concerns about Trump’s governance, pay-to-play politics, the ongoing government shutdown, and the erosion of democratic norms. Amid their biting commentary, Coles and Lemon also examine the psychology behind Trump’s need for grandeur, the complicity of big business, and what all this signals for the future of American democracy.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Turning the White House into a "McMansion"

• Lemon’s Take: Trump is treating the White House as his personal property, bypassing Congress and historic commissions in his swift demolition of the East Wing ([01:35]–[02:02], [12:20]).

• Quote: "The White House is a federal building. It's not Donald Trump's house... He hasn't done any of that. He's just torn down and bulldozed the White House. I don't think everything has to be a McMansion. He's turning the White House into a McMansion." (Don Lemon, [01:38])

• Coles’ View: There may be a practical case for enlarging the White House for entertaining, but not via Trump’s approach:
  "Is this in England? This might be a class thing where we are deriding Trump's taste. But actually, he's right that we need a new ballroom." ([11:49])

• Significance: Both agree that historic structures representing a nation’s legacy deserve more respect and procedural care. Lemon sees the planned ballroom as a monument to Trump’s ego and a sign of his intent never to leave office. ([09:45])

2. Follow the Money: Pay-to-Play Politics

• Corporate Donors: They list major companies—Apple, Google, Palantir, Comcast—making multi-million dollar contributions for special access under the guise of funding the ballroom ([04:55]–[05:19]).
• Quote: "It's a pay to play." (Don Lemon, [05:20])
• Ethics: Lemon objects to the moral rot of simple transactional politics:
  "I couldn't do that because I actually believe in the US Constitution. I believe in having morals." ([05:26])

3. The Government Shutdown and Public Suffering

• Human Impact: TSA employees, air traffic controllers, and other federal workers go unpaid; hospitals are strained or closing; medicine is being rationed
• Policy Priorities: Lemon critiques the president for focusing on his ballroom vanity project while Americans are suffering ([24:21]):
  • "His number one priority is a ballroom. It is the perfect Marie Antoinette moment. Let them eat cake." (Don Lemon, [25:24])
• Broader Chaos: Unjustified shooting of small boats in the Caribbean and Pacific also exemplifies government lawlessness ([06:08], [25:24]).

4. Democratic Backslide and Authoritarian Drift

• Suppression of Dissent: Discussion of masked police, detentions without probable cause, and an eroded right to protest ([25:40])

• Quote: "We have no evidence these people are bringing drugs... everyone is just going along with it. I don't understand why people just aren't up in arms and on the streets every day protesting." ([25:40])

• On Democracy: Lemon expresses deep pessimism about democracy’s future:
  "I believe our democracy is over. I think Donald Trump has killed democracy in America." ([44:11])

• The Need for Real Opposition: Both urge Democrats to sharpen their messaging—literally bringing reporters to closed-down hospitals, airports, and schools to show the cost of Trump’s policies ([31:02]).

  • "I'd be out in the carpool lines...in front of the airports... I don't know why Democrats aren't doing that. It's not that hard, Joanna. It's actually quite easy." (Don Lemon, [34:16])

5. Culture, Taste, and Symbolism

• Tackiness as Metaphor: The new wing, described as "hideous," "all windows," “like a prefab home,” and compared to “Uncle Lester’s patio” ([15:01], [23:59]), is positioned as a symbol of national decline.
• Snobbery or Patriotism?: Lemon embraces being a “design snob” because the White House “represents America more than any other structure in the world, even the Capitol. So it should be in good taste.” ([15:38])

6. Trump’s Psychology and the Obama Roast

• Pop Psychology: Coles links Trump’s hunger for grandiosity to personal slights and the infamous Obama White House Correspondents’ Dinner ([10:14]).
• Quote: “There was a look on his face...he hates people to laugh at him.” (Don Lemon, [10:47])

7. American Complicity and the Cult Dynamic

• Party Loyalty Above All: Lemon argues that both Trump and his appointees care mainly about “money, power, loyalty,” not governance or ethics ([20:04]).
• On Republican Cowardice: Politicians fear Trump’s power to primary them more than they fear the consequences of their support for the shutdown ([30:25]).

8. Rebuilding After Trump

• How to Restore Democracy: Lemon argues for reversing all of Trump’s changes—both literal (the ballroom, the Rose Garden) and ethical:
  "When Trump is gone, we have to tear down the ballroom and we have to rebuild everything...rebuild our democracy back." ([44:34])
• Quotes & Lighthearted Moments:
  • "If I were president, I would tear it down as soon as I, if I, if I were elected president..." (Don Lemon, [17:19])
  • "It's like the guy who drives the giant pickup truck...what are you overcompensating for?" ([13:18])

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Pay-to-Play:
  "I'm shocked that these companies are giving him money" (Joanna Coles, [04:55])

• On Trump’s Taste:
  "Would you want Buckingham Palace or Windsor Castle to be in bad taste?" (Don Lemon, [15:38])

• On Protests:
  "They're all in a fucking cult and they only care about—" (Don Lemon, [29:57])

• On Despair and Hope:
  "We haven't slid into fascism, we've careened into fascism, and that's where America is right now." (Don Lemon, [44:34])

• On Self-Care and Sanity:
  Lemon and Coles end with a friendly, humorous back-and-forth about comfort snacks and staying sane with routine, friendship, and a "mindset of abundance instead of scarcity." ([46:20]-[48:49])

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment Topic | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------------|--------------| | East Wing demolition and McMansion critique | 01:35–02:02, 12:20 | | Don Lemon on corporate donors and pay-to-play | 04:55–05:20 | | The government shutdown and “Marie Antoinette” moment | 24:21–25:24 | | Democracy’s decline and authoritarian drift | 25:24–26:31, 44:11–45:46 | | Democrats’ messaging and advice | 31:02–34:16 | | On White House design, symbolism, and snobbery | 15:01–17:17 | | Trump’s psychology and White House Corresp. Dinner | 10:14–10:59 | | Rebuilding after Trump—literal and civic | 44:34–45:46 | | Maintaining sanity and mindset in hard times | 46:20–48:49 |

---

Tone & Style

The tone is irreverent, energetic, and deeply concerned, blending sarcastic humor (“he’s basically putting like the Superdome next to a college football stadium”) with piercing socio-political analysis. Both Don Lemon and Joanna Coles engage in playful ribbing alongside sobering reflections on the state of American democracy and political culture.

---

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This conversation is an incisive lens on the Trump era’s excess, rule-breaking, and deteriorating norms. Lemon and Coles use the metaphor of a gaudy White House addition to examine much deeper shifts in ethics, public trust, and collective action. The episode is as much a rallying cry for political engagement as it is a wry critique of America’s new “tacky” normal.

Whether you’re following the news closely or just looking to understand why a ballroom matters, this episode is a bracing reminder of the stakes—for architecture, governance, and national character.

---

Transcript

[Commercial Narrator]

AI agents are everywhere, automating tasks and making decisions at machine speed. But agents make mistakes. Just one rogue agent can do big damage before you even notice. Rubrik Agent Cloud is the only platform that helps you monitor agents, set guardrails, and rewind mistakes so you can unleash agents, not risk. Accelerate your AI [e-mail] that's R U B R-I K.com if you're a maintenance.

Supervisor at a manufacturing facility and your machinery isn't working right, Grainger knows you need to understand what's wrong as soon as possible. So when a conveyor motor falters, Grainger offers diagnostic tools like calibration kits and multimeters to help you identify and fix the problem. With Grainger, you can be confident you have everything you need to keep your facility running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I don't know if you've heard, but Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores. That means no small talk. Crazy weather we're having. No, it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Commercial Narrator]

Of $45 for 3 month plan, $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. Cementmobile.com.

[Joanna Coles]

But actually, he's right that we need a new ballroom.

[Don Lemon]

Maybe we do need a new ballroom, but it's not for him to decide. It's for the American people to decide. It's for the Congress who holds the purse strings to decide. Right, and it's for the historic commission to decide. The White House is a federal building. It's not Donald Trump's house. So if you want to do something to a federal building, you have to get approval for it. And it has to go through the process. He hasn't done any of that. He's just torn down and bulldozed the White House. I don't think everything has to be a McMansion. He's turning the white house into a McMansion.

[Joanna Coles]

He's turning THE white house into a McMansion. I'm Joanna Coles. This is the Daily Beast podcast. Today I'm going to be discussing, well, kind of everything with Don Lemon. What isn't there to discuss? The entire demolition of the East Wing of the White House in record time with no congressional approval. It's just an astonishing development. Then there are the little boats bobbing around, initially the Caribbean and now the Pacific that are being shot on the suspicion that they might be carrying drugs. There is the government shutdown. There are TSA workers not being paid. Let's waste no time. There is so much going on. Who better to discuss it with than Don Lemon of Don Lemon Life? Don, let's get into it. Don Lemon, we are surrounded by snacks.

[Don Lemon]

I know.

[Joanna Coles]

Because we're just comfort eating our way through this, right?

[Don Lemon]

Because. Yes. And because, honestly, I rarely leave a camera and computer.

[Joanna Coles]

I know. I can't believe we enticed you out. We coaxed you out like pugs a tawny hill from your cave. Or actually your beautiful drawing room where you do your podcast from. But we're very glad to have you here. And you're either in your recording studio. Yeah, I have one of those two. Or. Or no. Or your man on the street with your huge microphone.

[Don Lemon]

It's not that huge.

[Joanna Coles]

Huge, huge microphone. So the other thing is, we must eat chocolate while we can, because the price of chocolate is going up so much that they're putting less chocolate in things and they're doing a lot of vanilla chocolate that doesn't need cacao.

[Don Lemon]

Much cheaper.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, much cheaper. Because the price of cacao has gone up so much and the price of coffee is wildly, wildly gone up.

[Don Lemon]

Well, that said, you know, I'm not a huge chocolate person, but certain candy bars I will eat.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, you seem to eat all.

[Don Lemon]

I love. I love all of these. I haven't had a Butterfinger since I was a kid.

[Joanna Coles]

And there's more butter and less finger, perhaps. Or they're adding more peanuts to make it less chocolatey. Anyway, we are comfort eating because how else are we supposed to get through what is an onslaught of news? I almost don't know where to begin, except I would quite like to begin with the $230 million that Trump has picked, I think, out of the ether, which is money that he believes he needs as compensation for the Democrats trying to prosecute him.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

In the four years when he was in the wilderness, out of office.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, it's all retribution. But, I mean, honestly, I think he wants that money to pay for the ballroom. That's why I think he wants the money. But regardless.

[Joanna Coles]

But don't you think he's getting the money for the ballroom from companies and he wants the money. He's pretending he wants it for the bull run, but I think he wants it for himself.

[Don Lemon]

Well, I wouldn't be surprised, but I mean, the companies are. I'm shocked that these companies are giving him money.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, let's just run through the companies we know. Apple, Google, Matter, Palantir, Comcast, Booz Allen.

[Don Lemon]

But so far they're giving like 5, 10 million that we know about. Those are the folks that we know about.

[Joanna Coles]

So I think they're giving a bit more than that. I was hearing 20 in the 20s.

[Don Lemon]

20S each. That's a lot of dough.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it's not a lot of dough if what you're paying for is access to the president and his cabinet with your ideas.

[Don Lemon]

That's what's happening.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

It's a pay to play.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

How much would you curry favor?

[Joanna Coles]

Do you think you could curry some favor, Don?

[Don Lemon]

No, I couldn't. I'm not built that way. I couldn't do that because I actually believe in the US Constitution. I believe in having morals.

[Joanna Coles]

That's old thing. Constitution.

[Don Lemon]

I believe in being ethical. And I don't want to pay someone. You know, I will. I may go out to dinner with you and schmooze you a little bit and whatever, but I'm not going to give you millions of dollars. It's just not. We shouldn't do those things in America. It's embarrassing to me. But those. Those people are not complaining because they are in the White House or actually in the White House.

[Joanna Coles]

Well. And they're having dinner. They're having dinner with him. They're having dinner with him at Windsor Castle. And they're asking. I mean, one interesting thing I thought this week was Mark Zuckerberg saying, please don't bring the National Guard to San Francisco. We don't need it.

[Don Lemon]

He did it. He agreed to do it.

[Joanna Coles]

Yep.

[Don Lemon]

And Donald Trump says he's not going to do it. So, I mean, so pay to play. So, I mean, look, if you have. I can understand if you have more money than God, Mark Zuckerberg and probably all the people who are giving him money. They can never spend the money that they have in a lifetime or two lifetimes or multiple lifetimes. So what is it to them to give $20 million? It's not maybe $20 million.

[Joanna Coles]

They're giving it from their personal right. This is a company payment, which is probably written down as some kind of lobby.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

That we should find.

[Don Lemon]

It's all out of the pile. I mean, it's all out of the pile of money that they're making from their businesses, and they're pouring the money that they're making from their businesses and they're putting it into these other things. So it's still their money that they're giving. As I said, it's not coming directly from maybe their personal bank accounts, right?

[Joanna Coles]

No, it's the company's money. And I'm sure they argue that it's to have good business relationships with, which is essential. Right. And we know that Trump can be vindictive, and if you don't help him, he'll come after you.

[Don Lemon]

Well, there's always a way to rationalize it, right?

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, always a way to rationalize it. All right, so 230 million. Do you think he's actually under asking? And if you were him, you would. Or if you were advising him, you would say, why stop at 230 million?

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. I mean, if you're going to go for something ridiculous and I would say yes. I just. I can't believe that he's doing it. I should. I mean, it shouldn't be surprising to me, but I can't believe that he has the gall to. To do what he's doing now. I mean, he. Those. He was prosecuted and investigated for legitimate reasons.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. And can you remind us what they were? I can barely remember in the fug of all these.

[Don Lemon]

So it's all sort of blended together. It's like a soup of things. There's so much of it that we don't really know. Like, wait, is this for the Letitia James thing, or is it for the Southern District of New York? Like, which one is it?

[Joanna Coles]

Right, right.

[Don Lemon]

And so there's so many of them. And so I think that trying to pin him down, for one thing, you know, when there's a whole cavalcade of charges and unethical and unlawful behavior that he has been found guilty of or should be found guilty of and would possibly be in prison now if he were not President of the United States.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, that's clearly what he's sort of running from. Right. The fear that he would be in.

[Don Lemon]

Prison and perhaps he will after.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. If we ever get to an after. I mean, Steve Bannon again claiming that Donald Trump is going to run in 28 and will get elected in 28. Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

Ridiculous.

[Joanna Coles]

But again, just creating or flooding the.

[Don Lemon]

Zone, I don't think that that will ever pass anything. Whether I don't think it'll pass the Congress or the Senate or I don't think you'd have to have some sort of amendment. I'm not exactly sure what one would have to do, but pardon me for my strength.

[Joanna Coles]

It's worth it. Totally worth it.

[Don Lemon]

I don't think that'll get passed, so. But I think he's going to try to stay there, maybe figure something out where he becomes vice president or something, or he'll do something bizarre or he'll have someone become president, but basically he will be the president and this person will just be sort of the figurehead.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, perhaps a bit like Putin. What Putin did, that he put in his own person after he'd been president. And then he came back. Medvedev.

[Don Lemon]

Medved. Medvedev.

[Joanna Coles]

So he put Medvedev in and then he came back. Surprise. I'm back and now I'm never leaving.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, but he's never leaving. I mean, why do you think. You think he's putting that giant monstrosity on the White House if he. If you think you're leaving, you think he's doing that? He doesn't think he's leaving. That's why he's doing it. He thinks it's his house.

[Joanna Coles]

He does think it's his house and it's not big enough and it's not grand enough and he needs to Mar a Lago. It's really alarming. And the weird thing is how much of it does go back to that White House correspondents dinner.

[Don Lemon]

You were there with Obama.

[Joanna Coles]

With Obama, where Obama is making fun of Donald Trump in so many ways, not least the idea that Donald Trump would add a Trump addition to the White House.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. And here we are all these years later.

[Joanna Coles]

And here we are. I think Donald Trump decided to run for president long before then. I don't think that was the moment that provoked it, but it is astonishing how often we come back to that moment as it being emblematic of things that clearly triggered Donald Trump.

[Don Lemon]

Well, it's just. I mean, that was the first. That was a look on his face. Right. There was a visual of it and so. And. And of his.

[Joanna Coles]

And of everybody laughing at him.

[Don Lemon]

Everyone laugh. He hates people to laugh at him.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. Laughing at me.

[Don Lemon]

I don't care. It doesn't matter to me.

[Joanna Coles]

I don't love people laughing at me. I'd like them to laugh with me.

[Don Lemon]

It doesn't matter. But I mean, have you seen that thing? It is.

[Joanna Coles]

Of course I've seen.

[Don Lemon]

Have you? I don't know. Have you ever been to Mar A Lago?

[Joanna Coles]

No, I've been to the White House lots of times.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

I didn't mean to sound that. And that sounded showy offy. I didn't mean it like that. But I haven't been to Mar a Lago. I've driven around the outside of it because I was fascinated, but I've not been inside. Have you been?

[Don Lemon]

I've not been inside and I don't want to go in. But I wonder if it is as tacky as the Oval Office, because it was, what was it? Marjorie Meriwether Post's home or something like that, who had very good taste. But if they screwed that up and turned it into, you know, this gold plated or whatever monstrosity like they did the Oval Office. Have you seen the Oval Office? It's embarrassing.

[Joanna Coles]

No, no. But do you think some of the. Because there's no question that the White House probably did need a bigger entertaining space. You've been to the parties, they have in those big tents and you're like, why are we in a tent? This is the White House. And also, it can't be very secure, the tent. I feel like you should be inside a building with bulletproof windows. But I was wondering to myself, is this in England? This might be a class thing where we are deriding Trump's taste. But actually he's right that we need a new ballroom.

[Don Lemon]

Maybe we do need a new ballroom. But it's not for him to decide. It's for the American people to decide. It's for the Congress who holds the purse strings to decide.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

And it's for the historic commission to decide. The White House is a federal building. It's not Donald Trump's house. So if you want to do something to a federal building, you have to get approval for it and it has to go through the process. He hasn't done any of that. He's just torn down and bulldozed the White House. I don't see anything. The tents don't. I don't mind the tent. They don't bother me. I don't think everything has to be a McMansion. He's turning the White House into a McMansion.

[Joanna Coles]

He's turning THE White House into a McMansion.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. And I think that it's nice. Some things are nice the way they are and some things should not be changed. Like, do you think the Washington Monument is not tall enough or big enough or whatever? You know what I'm saying? So are we going to change that?

[Joanna Coles]

Right. Well, he's going to build his own architect. Right. He's going to put his own arch opposite the Lincoln.

[Don Lemon]

That's a sign of.

[Joanna Coles]

What does this mean a small one? A small.

[Don Lemon]

Anyone who wants to have all of that stuff. It's like, you know, it's like the guy who drives the giant pickup truck or the muscle car. What are you overcompensating for? Why does he need a big ballroom? And it's not even for the American people. It's for foreign dignitaries. And how often does that happen? It doesn't happen that often, but it.

[Joanna Coles]

Could happen more often. I actually think it should be.

[Don Lemon]

And you don't have to build it at the White House if you want to have a ballroom. Right. You can build it at some other place and say, this is the ballroom where we're going to entertain foreign dignitaries. They don't have to go to the White House. Why is it necessary for them to go there?

[Joanna Coles]

Well, just because I think they're better set up for security and things.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, yeah. But I mean, the Pentagon is great. I mean, there are other places in Washington where you can build it and then build the security.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, that feels like it would be weird to have a ballroom at the Pentagon, though.

[Don Lemon]

I'm just saying there are other places that are secure. The White House is not the only secure place in Washington, D.C. right? Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

In fact, now I look back on it, I think it's a miracle that they ever had heads of state in a tent because surely that's a security risk.

[Don Lemon]

I don't know if you ever. You've been there, right? Yeah, those things. Your phone. My phone doesn't work. The planes don't fly over the White House. It's secure airspace. And if someone. If someone's going to bomb or do whatever, they can do the same thing to a ballroom that they can do to a tent. The. The ballroom isn't gonna save you that much, I guess. It's only. It's just brick and mortar or wood. It's not gonna save you that much. If someone is hell bent on flying a plane into a tent, then they're doing into the ballroom.

[Joanna Coles]

And if Donald Trump's building, it's probably Twivec. Not even Tyvek. Tyvek? Is that what it's called? Tyvek? I've always. I feel like American houses are made out of Tyvek, which was a material I'd never come across before I moved here.

[Don Lemon]

They're all, oh, my God, I forget what those homes are that are all prefab. I forgot the name of them, but it looks like a prefab home. It's hideous. And he has horrible taste.

[Joanna Coles]

Are you sure that you're not just being a snob?

[Don Lemon]

No.

[Commercial Narrator]

Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

I'm being a snob.

[Joanna Coles]

You could be. Okay, so you're being a design snob because we've seen inside your perfectly designed drawing room where you do a lot of your podcasting from, which is, you know, the utmost taste. It's beautifully done. Maybe we're just all being design snobs about this.

[Don Lemon]

Well, I think it's okay to be a design snob. This is, this, this, this, this house represents America more than any other structure in the world, even the Capitol. So it should be in good taste. You know, I mean, would you go think about Buckingham palace or Windsor Castle? Would you want that to be in bad taste?

[Joanna Coles]

No.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. So, I mean, and so this is our version of that. And so it should be. We should get approval. It should be. It should have historical approval. It should have architects and beautiful. And people who inter design and decorators should be a part of this. And it should be in scale. The White House, he's like basically putting like the Superdome, you know, next to, you know, a college football stadium. It's awful.

[Joanna Coles]

Do you know what I think we should be thinking of doing is the minute it opens for business, there should be enormous projections against the side of it of Don Lemon. Don Lemon, with your enormous microphone. Because I would love that. Do you know how when Donald Trump visited the king at Windsor Castle and they put Jeffrey Epstein up against the side of that 200 foot stone tower, they should be doing that against the opening of the ballroom. We should encourage them to come over and start planning. It's the most brilliant gorilla.

[Don Lemon]

It is, but I think it's all windows. Isn't this thing all windows on the side? So I'm not sure how you can still.

[Joanna Coles]

I think you can still put it on windows. It's better, obviously, if it's on, you know, 1200 year old stone walls, but I bet they can figure out a way of doing it.

[Don Lemon]

They better hurt. They better get it done fast. Because the next person who comes in, I'm pretty sure they're going to tear it down.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, you think they're going to tear the ballroom down?

[Don Lemon]

I would tear it down as soon as I, if I, if I were elected president, you know, that's the only office I would probably run for.

[Joanna Coles]

I think you should start thinking about running.

[Don Lemon]

People ask me to run for office all the time.

[Joanna Coles]

What kind of office?

[Don Lemon]

People ask me if I want. Ever want to be back in the day during Trump's first term. People would say, you should run for president. And I'm like, okay, no, I'm not going to do that. Mayor and Senator, which would you prefer?

[Joanna Coles]

Where would you start? What would your starter politics do? I would start a president man like Donald Trump. Donald Trump was never elected to anything before the White House.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, would I want to be mayor of New York City? No, probably not. It's too, you know, it's, I think it's a harder job actually than the president.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, you have to be slightly more accountable in a weird way, right? Yes.

[Don Lemon]

Because you're more exposed. You're out there among the people. The president is insulated. Right. He's. He's got all kinds of the circles and circles and circles of security around him. So, you know, you don't, you're not that accountable. You're right. But I think. Yeah. And Senator, I think senators have a. They're a bit more elevated than Congress people, even though I think Congress does all of the work. And then the Senate. Senate just kind of sits around and.

[Joanna Coles]

There is just something that seriously you could do.

[Don Lemon]

I could be a senator, but I don't, I wouldn't want to run and I don't have the patience for it. And I'm too opinionated.

[Joanna Coles]

But isn't that what it turns out? People like.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. And, you know, maybe I'm too flawed. Like, you know, there's a lot.

[Joanna Coles]

But that's also what. People like you couldn't be more flawed than Donald Trump.

[Don Lemon]

Right. But does that work for anyone else other than Donald Trump?

[Joanna Coles]

Maybe.

[Don Lemon]

We'll see with the guy in Maine. Right. The guy with the tattoo.

[Joanna Coles]

You know, we'll see the Democrat with the Nazi tattoo.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. Well, is it Nazi or Nazi?

[Joanna Coles]

Like what did.

[Don Lemon]

Because I think.

[Joanna Coles]

What a great point. Nazi.

[Don Lemon]

I think it resembles a Nazi, but it's not quite that.

[Joanna Coles]

It looks like a swastika, but actually it's an ancient something like that.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. I'm not. I don't know, but I'm not. I don't think that Democrats should throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm not so sure that they should jettison this person because I think he's very popular and it's not a. You know, we all need to get rid of the purity test because no one is perfect.

[Joanna Coles]

Nobody is perfect. And it turns out that people don't want people who are perfect.

[Don Lemon]

No.

[Joanna Coles]

I mean, George Santos got elected.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, my God.

[Joanna Coles]

He got pardoned, but he got elected with people knowing that he was a phony.

[Don Lemon]

He got. His sentence got commuted, but I don't think he was pardoned. I think he Was let out of. Yeah, okay.

[Joanna Coles]

He was just let out.

[Don Lemon]

He still has the charges or whatever, but I think he was just let out.

[Joanna Coles]

What about the Binance guy? The CEO of Binance?

[Don Lemon]

Oh, wow. And he was. He was. I mean, everybody. They all were guilty. The thing is, if you are. If you are loyal to Trump, he respects fealty and loyalty overall. That's what he wants. And money. And really, that's it. Money, power, loyalty. That's his. It's easy. I should write a book called Money, Power, Loyalty owed to Donald Trump.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, you should. And you can sell it on your platform and at your live events, where you can buy this fabulous T shirt, which I'm coveting.

[Don Lemon]

Isn't it great?

[Joanna Coles]

Live with Don Lemon? And it's great.

[Don Lemon]

And I almost wore a Lemon Nation baseball cap that's black. And I left my. Asked my husband, I said, too much. And he goes, aren't you going to be on camera? Why would you wear a baseball cap? I said, tim, I wear a baseball cap on my show. And he goes, too much.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it's like Chanel, Coco. Chanel always said, take something off. Yeah. Take one thing off before you leave the home. Yeah. Smart.

[Don Lemon]

I think I'm going to start wearing this T shirt, maybe a version of it, or just a black T shirt every day. I think the guys. All the. What do you call them? Tech guys. Mark Zuckerberg.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. His great T shirt.

[Don Lemon]

I think they're. I think they're really smart because then I don't have to search for outfits every day. And then you're more recognizable.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Don Lemon]

It's like a branding thing.

[Joanna Coles]

It's like a branding thing. And you don't have to waste brain power, because every decision you make takes away fuel from your brain.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. So every morning while I'm, like, getting dressed and I'm doing this and I'm on the phone, I'm like, hey, can you. We want this for the open. Can you grab this piece of content? Oh, I just saw this somewhere. Can we get this? And I'm going, what am I gonna wear?

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, you shouldn't be doing that.

[Don Lemon]

So this is gonna be.

[Joanna Coles]

It's limiting your cognitive resources.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah. And so when people look at me and they see the Don Lemon show, they'll know that's Don's show. He's wearing the black T shirt or he's wearing the baseball.

[Joanna Coles]

And these snazzy glasses, which are very good. Where are they from?

[Don Lemon]

These are Robert. Mark, who's a very dear friend of mine. Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, he is.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, he is good.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay. Because those are good glasses.

[Don Lemon]

But back to the. Back to the ballroom. So I would tear it down immediately. So he'd better, because it's gonna take a long time to build that size of ballroom. Do you think it is if it's not stopped?

[Joanna Coles]

It could be stopped, don't you think? Oh, interesting.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

I mean, what would be impressive is if he built it in record time. He's demolished it in record time. But if he could build it, he's.

[Don Lemon]

Going to have to, because I think if he. If he takes his time or goes slow, someone will figure out a way to stop it, to block it or to stop it temporarily, whatever. But I would tear it down if I were president or if I had the power. And then I would takei would tell them to tear it down and try to save as much as possible. And then I would take whatever is usable and I'd give it to Habitat for Humanity.

[Joanna Coles]

But how would you rebuild, though?

[Don Lemon]

I would rebuild the east wing the same way it was with, obviously, new and improved technology and plumbing and all of those things. And I'd probably take the opportunity to do the rest of the White House. I may have everyone move out of the White House temporarily, and then I would upgrade the plumbing and the electricity without changing it. Just making it more beautiful, more modern, but not changing any of the structure, interior or exterior structure. Put it back the way it was. Because some things don't need change. Change don't need to change, and they don't need to be, as I said, a McMansion. And so that's what I would do. And I would take the rose garden and put it back in. Oh, my gosh. It's so bad. It looks like an Olive Garden patio or like a Panera. Seriously, in the 70s, when I was coming of age and my grandmother wanted a new patio, it was like, you know, Uncle Lester and his new concrete business came over and poured it, and you're like, oh, my God, Uncle Lester's coming over. And then they took it, and he poured it, and it was like, ah, okay. He did. Okay, let's just paint it, and I'll make it look good, and we'll have a nice patio, and we'll just put some big iron furniture out there and some, you know, lounge chairs, and that's what it looks like. It's awful.

[Joanna Coles]

It looks like Uncle Lester's patio.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, it's really, really bad.

[Joanna Coles]

Governor Newsom calls it the predator's patio, which is quite good. And I did think it was pretty Bad taste of Donald Trump to have the Republican senators all sitting there having a fancy lunch when they were on, I think, day 22 of the government shutdown. We haven't even begun to talk about the government shutdown.

[Don Lemon]

But it's all bad, Joanna. It's all bad because you have someone who's obsessed. And Caroline Levitt said it yesterday, she said that Donald Trump's number one priority was this ballroom. In the meantime, the government is shut down. People are being furloughed. Some people are losing their jobs completely. There aren't enough air traffic controllers to keep the skies safe. Some hospitals are either closing or unmodified, whatever usage. And women are being dragged out of carpool lines, picking up their kids from school like you have. All of these people are rationing, medicine prices are up, negative job numbers. And his number one priority is a ballroom. It is the perfect Marie Antoinette moment. Let them eat cake. He's going to party. And everybody and all the dignitaries are going to party in this big ballroom. And everyone outside, not everyone, but many of the people who are on the outside are suffering because of your policies.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, and people are not getting government paychecks either, Right? And they're shooting little boats. Started in the Caribbean, now it's moved to the Pacific. And he's like, well, I'm just going to shoot people if they're bringing drugs. We have no evidence they're bringing drugs.

[Don Lemon]

We don't have any evidence of anything. We have no evidence that these people are bringing drugs. We have no evidence that the people they're rounding up on the streets are criminal or not. The evidence that comes back is that 70% of them are not more than 70% don't have criminal records. And he said, I'm only going to get the criminals out of here. Only the worst are the bad people. And too many American citizens are being swept up for no due process. They're not seeing any evidence. They're not seeing any probable cause. They're not seeing any signed warrants from judges. So there's no evidence of anything. But everyone is just going along with it. And I don't understand why people just aren't up in arms and on the streets every day protesting. And honestly, I'm just using this as an, you know, and, you know, trying to climb over the walls of the White House and say, what are you guys doing? Or the Capitol and yelling at their. Their senators and their Congress, their representatives and saying, what the fuck are you guys doing?

[Joanna Coles]

Don, we're just going to take a quick break. For some ads.

[SimpliSafe Advertiser]

This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. Can a home security system really call itself effective if it only responds once an intruder has broken into your home? SimpliSafe has set itself apart by stopping crime before it's starts. Using AI powered cameras working to spot trouble the moment it appears live, agents step in instantly warning intruders and calling the police. I've signed up for SimpliSafe home protection so I can afford real peace of mind the next time I go on vacation. No contracts, no hidden fees and a 60 day money back guarantee. Right now get free 50% off a new home security [e-mail] DailyBeast that's simplisafe.com DailyBeast Proper security means protecting your home before crime starts.

[Blue Apron Advertiser]

Why does every recipe I try need 18 ingredients, including a jar of something paste I'll never use again but will sit in my fridge for nine months? I just want dinner in the oven fast. That's why I love Blue Apron's new One Pan Assemble and Bake meals. They send you fresh ingredients that are already chopped. All you do is put it all together and bake. That's it. No chopping, no weird leftovers. Just delicious, easy to make meals. Get 20% off your first two orders with code APRON20 Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more AI agents.

[Commercial Narrator]

Are everywhere, automating tasks and making decisions at machine speed. But agents make mistakes. Just one rogue agent agent can do big damage before you even notice. Rubrik Agent Cloud is the only platform that helps you monitor agents, set guardrails, and rewind mistakes so you can unleash agents, not risk. Accelerate your AI [e-mail] that's R U B R-I K.com if you're a maintenance.

Supervisor at a manufacturing facility and your machinery isn't working right, Grainger knows you need to understand what's wrong as soon as possible. So when a conveyor motor falters, Grainger offers diagnostic tools like calibration kits and multimeters to help you identify and fix the problem. With Grainger, you can be confident you have everything you need to keep your facility running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Joanna Coles]

And I'm back with Don Lemon and this is the Daily Bees podcast. Well, we saw the no Kings protests. I want to say the no Kings parade. I mean the no Kings protests last weekend. And we definitely see more people turning up at town halls for congresspeople and senators. Right. And certainly people are definitely angrier. Do you think a lot of protest has just gone online, so it's not as effective? I mean, what I don't understand is how can this not be bad for Republican candidates? Because Republicans are losing their jobs, Republicans are not getting paychecks. Republican people are working at the tsa. This is not like just targeting Democrat voters.

[Don Lemon]

Where do you want me to go? How do you want me to vote? What do you want me to say? They're all in a fucking cult and they only care about.

[Joanna Coles]

That's very impressive, by the way. That was straight out of the Walking Dead.

[Don Lemon]

Me, too. Your leader. It's allit's. Allit's a cult. And so, because if Donald Trump has the support of the people, and they believe he does now, even though his numbers are softening, you know.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, his numbers are really bad.

[Don Lemon]

They're really bad right now. And so until, I think, until he's out of office, they're not going to change because he has the power right now. And even if he doesn't have the numbers, he still has the power to affect them, their jobs in their district, and maybe even enough influence to primary them or whatever it is. So they're, you know, they're trapped right now because they went along with this MAGA lie. They went along with this, and now they're stuck and they're getting blamed for the government shutdown.

[Joanna Coles]

So we have a year to go until the midterms. What would you be advising the Democrats to do?

[Don Lemon]

Oh, my God, the Democrats are. You guys drive me crazy. Democrats, they drive me crazy, all of them.

[Joanna Coles]

I think there are some good Democrats emerging.

[Don Lemon]

Of course there are some good Democrats emerging. But. But the thing is, is I think they figured this one thing I do have to say, the messaging on this great going with health care was the best messaging, the best thing that they could do. And this is the only time that I see that Democrats are falling in line. They're carrying the message.

[Joanna Coles]

Right, Right.

[Don Lemon]

They're toeing the line. And I think that that is great. Finally. I don't understand, and I've said this on my show, I don't understand why when MSNBC calls or ABC or CBS or CNN calls this a senator or Congress a woman. We would like to have you on the show tonight. Sure. That's what I would say.

[Commercial Narrator]

Sure.

[Don Lemon]

But meet me at Metropolitan Hospital on 45th street and we'll do it from there. I'll be live on your show from there. And they'll say, why are you there? I'm here because this hospital is shut down because Republicans have closed, because the government is closed. And people who live here aren't getting the services from the hospital, the much needed services that they need, the care that they need, because the hospital is shut down and they don't care about your health care. The president cares about a ballroom. Well, he can have it here in this hospital because it's now empty. And so give him this hospital.

[Joanna Coles]

So that are they going to then just say, well, we love that idea, but we don't have the money to send Cruz out to do that.

[Don Lemon]

Who?

[Joanna Coles]

The TV network.

[Don Lemon]

Oh, they will do it.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, you think they would go? You think they will?

[Don Lemon]

Of course they would go. Of course they. If they. Then I would say, I'm not coming on. I mean, if they can't send a crew out, I do live shots all the time with my cell phone. You can get there. It's not that hard to do. The other thing I would do is the election starts now. It's already started. I don't understand why Democrats don't have canvassers, Democratic strategists, consultants, all out in these neighborhoods where women are being pulled out of the pickup line from school. And I'd have on a vote Democrat. Or did you vote for this? Donald Trump lied to you and now your wife, your sister, your grandmother, your uncle, your child, now they're being deported or they've been detained. Is that what you voted for? So you shouldn't be voting for Donald Trump or the Republicans in 2026 or 2028 because they lied to you and now your loved one is gone. They took away your rights as an American citizen. And even if you're not right, because some American citizens are being detained and then getting summonses and fines because they don't have their papers on them, which is ridiculous. But the Constitution doesn't say citizens have a right to due process. It says all persons. And that means even people who are here who are undocumented and who are what they call illegal. So I'd be out in the carpool lines. I'd be out in all of these areas where people are being treated terribly. I'd be at the hospitals, the businesses that are closed. I would say, take me to the airport. I'd stand in front of the airport with the planes landing and saying, you know what? Today, for three hours, there weren't enough people in this control tower because the Republicans have closed the government. I don't know why Democrats aren't doing that. It's not that hard, Joanna. It's actually quite easy.

[Joanna Coles]

So, Don, it's time for you to run. That was like a stump speech. Come on. You've got the strategy, you've got the personality, you've got the media footprint. It's time. Announce it now. I feel like you should announce that you're going to run.

[Don Lemon]

Okay. Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon, and I'm running for the host of the Don lemon show on YouTube.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, that you've already got. That you've already have. And millions of people are watching you and writing to you and leaving comments. I look at all the comments you get, and I just think that it's so easy to sit around and criticize. And people also need to be able to step up and step into government.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, yeah. But everyone is. Everyone's kind of people. Haven't we haven't seen this before? Like, this isn't what America is supposed to be about. It's like the guy who just recently. I mean, I think it was a very harsh comparison, but he compared what Donald Trump did to the East Wing to isis. Right. Did you see the guy who did that?

[Joanna Coles]

No, I missed that. It's actually on Seth saying.

[Don Lemon]

No, it's.

[Joanna Coles]

People in those little boats were like Isis and Al Qaeda.

[Don Lemon]

No, he's. He's an archaeologist. He's like a real life.

[Joanna Coles]

He was a guy we had in the Daily Beast.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. He's a proper archaeologist, historical archeologist who's.

[Don Lemon]

A real Indiana Jones.

[Joanna Coles]

Yes. What they've done to the East Wing and what they've done to the White House is exactly what terrorists were doing. Blowing up beautiful monuments in Afghanistan and the Middle East.

[Don Lemon]

I think people just aren't used to seeing this in America.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, and I think the speed with which he moved and the fact that he'd promised in July he was not going to do anything to touch the East Wing. Another huge lie.

[Don Lemon]

Well, it's really about the whole idea of America. My friend Darren Walker. I don't know if you're Darren Walker, who's the head of the Ford foundation, and he's stepping down at the end of the month. It's over, and he's happy about it. I interviewed him yesterday and I saw him at dinner last night, which was great. But he has a book called the Idea of America. And the idea of America is that we. At least one idea is that we had this idea that. This grand idea that we would treat people with dignity, that people would have certain freedoms and certain inalienable rights. And that the folks who would, we assumed that the people who would take office, especially the highest office in the land, would have some sort of morals, principles, scruples. Right. And also believe in that idea of America. What we found out with Donald Trump is that that doesn't apply to him. And so I think we need better safeguards and rails that can control even the chief executive in the United States.

[Joanna Coles]

But we're supposed to have that with Congress. That's Congress's role. Right. They're supposed to, as you said earlier, control the purse strings. And yet it turns out that Congress is so frightened of being primaried by this man if they criticize him that they won't criticize him.

[Don Lemon]

I think we need to figure out how to fix the balance. We need to balance all of that. Well, of course, even that needs a safeguard.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. But what I'm shocked by is not only that, but the sense that everybody around him is not only not acting as a guardrail, they are in fact enabling him. And he has surrounded himself by a strange bunch of people who Michael Wolff was saying on our most recent edition of Inside Trump's Head wouldn't be hired by any other president. They wouldn't be selected by any other president because they don't have the competencies. They suddenly realize they're in a role here that they'll never be in again. And so they're doing everything they possibly can to cause maximum chaos.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, but also 100% correct. But they wouldn't be hired at the water company or the dog catching company. Some of these people.

[Joanna Coles]

Right, right.

[Don Lemon]

And so he's put, he's put compromised people, flawed, very flawed people in these positions because they, so he, because they will be beholden to him and they will do whatever he wants. That's the sad truth of it all. But I think that it's not necessarily that people have enabled him because they have. But I think the Republicans and the Democrats, it's sort of a tacit, like they don't, they're not explicitly doing it, but because they're so unnerved by it and they're frozen. Right. They don't know how to react to it. And so every time they don't react and people become stalled or freeze and go, wait, what do we, I don't know what to do. Like it empowers, it emboldens him more himself. I think he has been surprised by what he has been able to get away with. And because every time he gets away with Something, then that emboldens him even more. And then he does something else.

[Joanna Coles]

And he goes, oh, extreme.

[Don Lemon]

Then he goes, oh, I can get away with that.

[Blue Apron Advertiser]

And.

[Don Lemon]

And then he goes, oh, then I'll do this. And then nobody stops him. Someone has to go, no, no, little chump. You can't do that. Now go to your room.

[Joanna Coles]

To be fair, there are lots of judges who've been doing it, right?

[Don Lemon]

He defies them.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, he defies some of them. He hasn't defied all of them. There are definitely brave judges out there. There are definitely brave lawyers out there. And we had Robbie Kaplan, e. Jean Carroll's lawyer on, and she was talking about.

[Don Lemon]

She's a force, man.

[Joanna Coles]

She is a force. And she was talking about how the legal system is actually holding. It may not feel as if it.

[Don Lemon]

Is, but it is.

[Joanna Coles]

But it is actually holding. Although it's hard to know how it's holding when he's just randomly shooting boats wherever he says he can see a drug dealer. And I don't know how they know they're drug dealers.

[Don Lemon]

They don't.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, of course they don't. They have no idea. They have no idea. Why am I looking for logic in this situation?

[Don Lemon]

I'm so glad you said that. Because my husband said to me, he goes, why would he commute George Santos sentence? He's not even that big a figure. Like, no one really cares about him. Why would he do it? And I looked. I was like, what do you mean, why? And I said, there is no logic to what he's doing. And then I read his tweet or post and it says that he had the nerve or the. Whatever I'm paraphrasing, to always vote Republican. And I said, there's your answer right there. He goes, but he's not like, who cares? He's a clown. I said, yeah, so is Donald Trump. But there's no logic in it. And it's a signal. Like, it doesn't matter as long as you're loyal to me. If you're in trouble, if you break into the Capitol and you smear feces on the wall or urine on the wall or you steal things out of the leader's offices. If you break windows, then it doesn't matter because I'm going to pardon you.

[Joanna Coles]

If you push over policemen or knock them to the ground.

[Don Lemon]

Yeah, it doesn't matter.

[Joanna Coles]

Don, hold your fire for one moment while we get some messages from our sponsors.

[Blue Apron Advertiser]

Why does every recipe I try need 18 ingredients, including a jar of something paste? I'll never use again but will sit in my fridge for nine months. I just want dinner in the oven fast. That's why I love Blue Apron's new one Pan Assemble and Bake Meals. They send you fresh ingredients that are already chopped. All you do is put it all together and bake. That's it. No chopping, no weird leftovers. Just delicious, easy to make meals. Get 20% off your first two orders with code APRON20 Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more AI agents.

[Commercial Narrator]

Are everywhere, automating tasks and making decisions at machine speed. But agents make mistakes. Just one rogue agent agent can do big damage before you even notice. Rubrik Agent Cloud is the only platform that helps you monitor agents, set guardrails and rewind mistakes so you can unleash agents, not risk. Accelerate your AI [e-mail] that's R U B R-I K.com if you're a custodial.

Supervisor at a local high school, you know that cleanliness is key and that the best place to get cleaning supplies is from Grainger. Grainger helps you stay fully stocked on the products you trust, from paper towels and disinfectants to floor scrubbers. Plus, you can rely on Grainger for easy reordering so you never run out of what you need. Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you shouldn' 1. It's $15 a month.

[Joanna Coles]

2.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Seriously, it's $15 a month.

[Joanna Coles]

3.

[Ryan Reynolds]

No big contracts.

[Joanna Coles]

4.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I use it.

[Don Lemon]

5.

[Ryan Reynolds]

My mom uses it.

[Joanna Coles]

Are you.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront.

[Commercial Narrator]

Payment of $45 for three month plan $15 per month equivalent required New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com.

[Joanna Coles]

And I'm back with Don Lemon talking about everything. So this has all been very gloomy. What do you. Let me ask you two questions, all right? What's the thing that actually keeps you up at night? And then how can we find joy in life other than just comfort eating?

[Don Lemon]

The thing that keeps me up at night.

[Joanna Coles]

Is there any one of these things worse than the others to you?

[Don Lemon]

I think the thing that keeps me up at night is that we this is going to be. Someone asked me about. They asked me if I think our democracy will hold. And so I'm different. I'm different. I asked my friend Darren Walker that in an interview regarding this book, because he's very hopeful. And he said, I do believe that. I believe, you know, and he said that we have a very complicated history. And he talked about Thomas Jefferson and Monticello and all that stuff. I don't believei believe ourdemocracy is over. I think Donald Trump has killed democracy in America.

[Joanna Coles]

So you think that the midterms aren't going to happen, or are they going to happen and he'll disregard the results if they're not in his favor?

[Don Lemon]

I think yes. Especially if he's able to take over cities with federal officers and troops and the National Guard and all of that. Yeah. So I think our democracy is over. And democracy. Democracy is not just an election. It's also about how we treat each other.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. Not about the institutions.

[Don Lemon]

The institutions, what rules we follow, and do we follow the law, do we follow the Constitution? And so far, it's not happening. And so I believe that it's over. Some people believe that it's teetering. I think that we've already. We haven't slid into fascism, we've careened into fascism, and that's where America is right now. So when people say this is not America, it is. It's not who we're supposed to be, but this is who we are right now. So that keeps me up at night. I don't know how we get it back after this. So back to my original analogy or example. I think this analogy applies when Trump is gone. We have to tear down the ballroom and we have to rebuild everything. That's what we have to do. We have to tear all of the stuff that he did down and we have to rebuild our democracy back. And hopefully, hopefully, you know, 20, 28, that'll happen, and maybe in the midterms, I hope. But we've got to stop him from taking over cities and just bulldozing local officials, local leaders, who the people elected and just coming in and doing what he wants. We have to stop that.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, between now and the midterms, what are you going to do to stay sane? What do you do when you're. I mean, you're on camera most of the time, but in the small hours of downtime, when you're not actually Don Lemon live or running around outside with your enormous microphone, what, obsessed with.

[Don Lemon]

I wish. I'm going to bring it next time. I'm going to bring you. I'm going to make you one so that you have it all right.

[Joanna Coles]

So I can run around too. What do you do to stay sane and in such fabulous shape?

[Don Lemon]

Well, the thing is, is that when I'm sitting there in front of the camera all day, I don't really get a chance to eat a lot. I eat in the morning. My husband will make me, just out of the goodness of his heart, he'll make me a yogurt something, and I'll have that in tea. And I drink tea all day, and that's what I do. And I chew bubble gum, which is bad for my teeth. That's why I'm at the dentist twice a month. And so I do that so I don't eat that much. And so I can eat whatever I want. If you don't eat a lot, you can eat whatever you want. So if I feel like I want McDonald's and I'll go and I'll get like a hamburger and some fries, whatever, and then I won't have it for, you know, a couple months, okay? But I never deny myself anything, and I just don't eat a bunch. I don't eat a lot. But what do I do? I spend time in the community of my family and my friends. So tonight I have a date night with my husband. And so. And when I get home, I'll play with my dogs, and then I'll go, you know, take them to the park real quick, dog park. And then I'll go back and do my thing. I love what I do. I love how my business is growing. I love that people are recognizing what I do and appreciating what I'm doing. So that is helpful, and I love that. The thing that I think other people should take away from this is if you're watching, no matter what happens to you in life, you can always make it into a positive. You always have agency. You always have power, whether you realize it or not. It may not be the same way you had it before, but you always had that. And I think Americans have more power than they think they have. And if Jimmy Kimmel did not show them that, then I don't know what will. If the no kings with 7 million people out there did not show them that, then I don't know what will.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I think being arrested by masked men and bundled into the back of the car doesn't make you feel very powerful. I think being zip tied doesn't make you feel powerful. I think not having a salary check doesn't make you feel 100. I think working at the TSA and not being paid doesn't make you feel.

[Don Lemon]

Powerful, but you have to. You've got to find the positive and the thing that motivates you where. Where you can. And I think that you have to have a mindset of abundance, always a mindset of that something good is going to happen to me today. Even though this bad thing may be happening, something good is going to come out of this. I wholeheartedly believe that. A mindset of abundance instead of scarcity and a mindset of power instead of impotency.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay. Or a mindset of Butterfingers. A mindset of Butterfly or Snickers. No Snickers. You're going for the Snickers.

[Don Lemon]

No, no, I'm gonna do the Butterfinger.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay. You're doing the butterfly finger. So good. I took a bite, and this sugar just. It just. I could feel it outlining my skull.

[Don Lemon]

But it's so creamy. There's nothing like a Snickers bar, though, right?

[Joanna Coles]

Snickers.

[Don Lemon]

You know what my comfort is?

[Joanna Coles]

What?

[Don Lemon]

A Snickers bar. A bag of plain lay's potato chips.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

And a Diet Coke.

[Joanna Coles]

Did you know that there was a report just recently in Fortune.com that said that 40% of people who eat Lay's potato chips don't understand they're made out of potatoes?

[Don Lemon]

No.

[Joanna Coles]

What do you think they think they're eating?

[Don Lemon]

I don't know. But, I mean, I'm eating this Butterfinger, and I know that I'm eating fingers, like, people's fingers, so.

[Joanna Coles]

Don Lemon, it's always good to see you. I hope people check out Lemon Live. If they haven't, Don Lemonlive, and that you will come back and talk to us again very soon.

[Don Lemon]

Thank you. I love our relationship.

[Joanna Coles]

Good.

[Don Lemon]

We're growing into, like, a budding friendship, or at least a healthy respect for whatever.

[Joanna Coles]

I have no respect for you. I have zero. I love talking to you, and I really love your glasses. I'm thinking, why don't I have glasses like that? You know, I think podcasters need glasses.

[Don Lemon]

Right?

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah.

[Don Lemon]

Glasses and merch.

[Joanna Coles]

They need merch.

[Don Lemon]

Thank you.

[Joanna Coles]

So, of course, the one thing Don and I didn't talk about was Jeffrey Epstein and how so much of what is going on right now appears to be a major distraction from. As Michael Wolff will tell you, how Donald Trump thinks of Epstein. Epstein. Epstein. So, the demolition of the entire east wing of the White House, the taking out of little boats in the Caribbean that nobody knows if they're drug dealers or fishermen, the government shutdown now on I think day 30. All distractions from the thing that we know most unnerves this President. Jeffrey Epstein, if you have been thank you for joining us. Don't forget to subscribe to the Daily Beast and the Daily Beast Podcast. We are independent media so we really appreciate your support. Feel free to leave us a comment. We love your ideas for guests and for topics and we'll be going through your comments and I'll be going through them with Michael this upcoming week. So Beebeast and a shout out to our top tier beebeast members Karen White, Heidi Riley, Connie Rutherford, Sharon Shipley, Andrea Hodel and Free dc. Thanks to our production team, Devon Rogerino, Anna Von Erssen and Jesse Millwood.

[Commercial Narrator]

AI agents are everywhere, automating tasks and making decisions at machine speed. But agents make mistakes. Just one rogue agent can do big damage before you even notice. Rubrik Agent Cloud is the only platform that helps you monitor agents, set guardrails and rewind mistakes so you can unleash agents, not risk. Accelerate your AI transformation at rubrik.com that's R U B R-I-K.com if you're a.

Maintenance supervisor at a manufacturing facility and your machinery isn't working right, Grainger knows you need to understand what's wrong as soon as possible. So when a conveyor motor falters, Grainger offers diagnostic tools like calibration kits and multimeters to help you identify and fix the problem. With Grainger, you can be confident you have everything you need to keep your facility running smoothly. Call 1-800-granger clickgranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Trusted House Sitters Advertiser]

We all love our pets, but we love to travel too, and sadly, they can't always come along for the ride. Don't stress. Trusted House Sitters connects you with verified sitters who will stay in your home and care for your pets, all in exchange for a place to stay on their travels. So while you're off exploring, your pets get to stay safe and happy at home, right where they belong. Find a loving in Home pet sitter [e-mail].

[Don Lemon]

Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast the Last.

[Commercial Narrator]

Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily.

[Don Lemon]

Beast [e-mail] podcasts if you enjoyed this.

[Joanna Coles]

Episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed.

[Don Lemon]

The beast and support support all of.

[Joanna Coles]

Your podcasts as we cover what might.

[Don Lemon]

Become the darkest timeline. Head to thedailybeast.com membership podcast and sign up today.