The Daily Beast Podcast

Episode: Why Andrew's Epstein Shame Will Never End: Author

Host: Joanna Coles
Guest: Andrew Lownie (British historian and author)
Date: December 4, 2025

Overview

This episode centers on the seismic fallout from Prince Andrew's connections to Jeffrey Epstein, his subsequent exile from royal duties, and the deepening crises within the British Royal Family. Host Joanna Coles speaks with Andrew Lownie, the historian whose investigation into royal finances and the "House of York" played a pivotal role in Prince Andrew's public disgrace. The conversation delves into royal cover-ups, internal tensions, succession issues, rising republicanism, and the implications for the monarchy’s future.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The State of the Royal Family: Crisis and Transition

• Royal Family in Trouble:
  • Lownie asserts the family is "beyond transitional" and in real trouble due to exposed financial and moral corruption.
    • Quote: “It’s beyond transitional. I think they're in trouble.” — Andrew Loney (04:18)
  • The monarchy is facing scrutiny as never before, with questions now targeting the institution rather than just Prince Andrew.

Prince Andrew’s Downfall: Corruption, Protection & Possible Exile

• Protection and Cover-Ups:
  • The Queen and Prince Philip reportedly shielded Andrew from consequences despite his behavior and connections to Epstein.
  • The Palace allegedly suppressed stories and threatened media access to control the narrative.
    • Quote: “The palace tried to suppress all stories about Andrew and Jeffrey... she would give Andrew a new appointment when he was in the news on Epstein. She just had a complete blind spot.” — Andrew Loney (02:04, 07:44)
• Potential Charges and Flight:
  • Loney predicts Andrew may face criminal charges: sex trafficking, financial misconduct, questionable business as a trade envoy.
    • He suggests Andrew could flee to Bahrain, referencing the precedent of Spain’s King Juan Carlos going to Dubai to dodge legal troubles.
    • Quote: “If charges were brought, and I think they will be brought, that he would scupper in the way that King Juan Carlos of Spain has done... and gone to live in Dubai.” — Andrew Loney (05:03)
    • The UK and US would likely be unable to extradite him from Bahrain.

Family Dynamics: Favorites, Tensions & Unequal Treatment

• Andrew as the Queen’s Favorite:
  • Despite her duty-first public persona, the Queen repeatedly protected Andrew and rewarded him post-scandal.
    • Quote: “Time and time again, she would give Andrew a new appointment when he was in the news on Epstein … He was made a Knight of the Garter... after the revelations about Virginia Giuffre.” — Andrew Loney (08:24)
• Treatment of Charles vs. Andrew:
  • Loney describes harsher standards for Charles and leniency for Andrew, tracing Andrew’s entitlement and lack of accountability back to childhood.
    • Quote: “They had higher expectations of Charles and they kind of let Andrew do what he wanted... This goes right back to Andrew’s sort of childhood where there were no barriers.” — Andrew Loney (10:25)

The King, William, and the Future of the Monarchy

• Charles’s Hesitation / William’s Ruthlessness:
  • Charles is more sentimental, wants stability, and is reluctant to oust Andrew, while William desires a “slimmed down, European-style monarchy” and is more ruthless about cleaning house.
    • Quote: “William is calling more of the shots... He wants the stables clean before he gets there. Charles is reluctant to do that.” — Andrew Loney (12:22)
• William’s Agenda & Branding:
  • William wants to focus the monarchy on core family members, representing modernity and normalcy, while distancing from scandal.
    • Quote: “We saw this the other day with William’s interview with Eugene Levy... He turns up on a bicycle... It’s a very carefully calibrated PR campaign.” — Andrew Loney (18:23)

Beatrice, Eugenie, and the Peripheral Royals

• Business Ties & Titles at Risk:
  • Questions raised about Andrew’s daughters leveraging royal status for Middle Eastern business interests; their royal titles are likely to be revoked under William’s reign.
    • Quote: “I think... when William comes to power... Eugenie, Beatrice, Harry, Meghan, and their children will all lose their titles.” — Andrew Loney (18:23)
• Fergie’s (Sarah Ferguson) Position:
  • Ferguson, also recently dispossessed of her residence and titles, may leave the UK; her next steps (US, Portugal, Switzerland) uncertain. Potentially threatening a “tell-all” if sidelined.

The Erosion of Support and Winds of Republicanism

• Declining Popularity:

  • Growing UK support for republicanism; public apathy among youth, anti-monarchist movements emboldened, and poll numbers dropping from ~80% to ~50%.
    • Quote: “I think that this is probably the most dangerous moment in royal history since the abdication.” — Andrew Loney (17:00)

• Financial Corruption & Accountability:

  • Public demands for transparency about royal finances, especially as stories arise not only about Andrew but also about cash-for-honors scandals involving the King and questionable sponsorships by more distant royals.
    • Quote: “People asking much wider questions about the opaqueness of their finances which they don’t want to answer.” — Andrew Loney (17:23)

Memorable Royal Events & Social Dynamics

• Duchess of Kent’s Funeral Scene: [25:11]
  • Andrew and Fergie, reportedly uninvited, arrive with armed escort, sit in the front row, and treat the event like a social occasion.
  • William pointedly ignores Andrew, signaling the deep rift within the family.
    • Quote: “They were all trying to pay respects... and then cheeky chappy Andrew comes and wants to make conversation. And you’re absolutely right, William totally ignores him.” — Andrew Loney (26:50)
• Fergie & Royal Relations:
  • Charles has been more forgiving, welcoming Fergie back due to Camilla’s influence and family friendships, but other royals (especially Edward and Sophie) have objected.
  • Fergie allegedly adept at “worming her way back in” via manipulation and reinvention.
    • Quote: “Fergie has this great ability to manipulate people and to worm her way back and to reinvent herself.” — Andrew Loney (32:20)

Kate Middleton: The Royal Family’s Great Hope

• Popularity and Pressure:
  • Kate remains the monarchy’s anchor, beloved by the public and embodying the “duty-first” ethos the institution wants to promote.
  • Concerns about her health, with increased responsibilities placed on her and the children far earlier than usual for the sake of continuity.
    • Quote: “She’s carrying the whole thing at the moment. In some ways, it needs a nice middle class girl to actually show how it’s done properly.” — Andrew Loney (36:10)

Royals and the Law: Are They Still Untouchable?

• Changed Times:
  • Referencing King Juan Carlos of Spain’s exile and ongoing scandals with other European royals, Loney notes the era of royal untouchability is ending.
    • Quote: “The royals are no longer above the law. And I think that’s what the public want. They want Andrew to be held to account. They don’t want any more cover-ups.” — Andrew Loney (37:59)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “[The monarchy is] beyond transitional. I think they're in trouble.” — Andrew Loney (04:18)
• “The palace tried to suppress all stories about Andrew and Jeffrey... She just had a complete blind spot.” — Andrew Loney (02:04, 07:44)
• “He would scupper in the way that King Juan Carlos of Spain has done... gone to live in Dubai.” — Andrew Loney (05:03)
• “He was made a Knight of the Garter... after the revelations about Virginia Giuffre.” — Joanna Coles & Andrew Loney (08:24)
• “I think the likelihood is... all of them, Eugenie, Beatrice, Harry, Meghan, and their children will all lose their titles” — Andrew Loney (18:23)
• “There was a lot of pick me energy... William looking away or barely muttering a word.” — Joanna Coles (26:50)
• “She’s carrying the whole thing at the moment... They’re putting a lot of pressure on the children... because they want to show this sense of continuity.” — Andrew Loney (36:10)
• “The royals are no longer above the law. And I think that’s what the public want.” — Andrew Loney (37:59)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:04] — The Queen's protection of Andrew, suppression of Epstein stories
• [04:18] — The Royal Family’s current crisis
• [05:03] — Andrew’s predicted exile to Bahrain; risk of criminal charges
• [08:24] — The conferring of royal honors on Andrew after the Epstein scandal
• [12:22] — William vs. Charles and the future direction of the monarchy
• [15:16] — Princess Anne and Sarah Ferguson’s post-Royal Lodge prospects
• [17:00] — Rise of republican sentiment & danger to monarchy’s future
• [25:11] — Duchess of Kent’s funeral: public spectacle of royal tensions
• [26:50] — William’s public snubbing of Andrew at the funeral
• [36:10] — Kate Middleton’s role and public perception
• [37:59] — End of royal immunity from the law

Tone and Style

The podcast maintains an energetic, revelatory style combining Joanna Coles’ sharp, sometimes incredulous questioning with Andrew Loney’s sober, direct analysis. Together, they mix bombshell revelations with wry observations and a clear-eyed look at a monarchy at a crossroads.

Summary

This episode provides a detailed, insider look at Prince Andrew’s ongoing disgrace, the inadequacy and opacity of the Royal Family’s responses, and looming existential threats facing the monarchy. Loney’s account argues that Andrew’s reckoning is far from over—and that it may signal a crisis not just for one royal, but for the whole institution. The discussion is both cautionary and gossipy, making it essential listening for royal followers and critics alike.