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- [00:02]
Anthony Scaramucci
This episode is brought to you by Fox 1. Watch all 104 matches of the FIFA World cup live in 4K for just $19.99 a month with three days free. Build your own multiview. Choose up to three streams and follow player spotlights. Stay on top of every moment with live stats, highlights and instant replays. The FIFA World cup streaming live on Fox One. Offers are subject to change. See fox.com for complete terms and conditions. I didn't think the pain from the shingles rash would affect simple everyday tasks like bathing, getting dressed or even walking around. I was wrong though. Not everyone at risk will develop it. 99% of people over the age of 50 already have the virus that causes shingles and it could reactivate at any time. I developed it and the blistering rash lasted for weeks. Don't learn the hard way like I did. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist today. Sponsored by GSK Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.
- [01:02]
Joanna Coles
I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying.
- [01:08]
Anthony Scaramucci
It's not just for celebrities, so do like I did and have one of
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Joanna Coles
your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee.
- [01:29]
Anthony Scaramucci
Full terms@mintmobile.com the quiet part of that this has been an abject failure. The lacquering part of Trump and the denialism of Trump, which has been the cornerstone of his success for his entire public life, is now what's kicked in. You've heard of five stage clingers. He's going to go into five stage denialism. He's going to triple down on this lie because he has no other choice. He can't get out of this situation and get the prices lower in the United States and the Straits semi opened unless he does that. And so this is a way worse deal. He'll tell people it's a way better deal and he'll live in that denialism. But down deep he knows that this is an abject failure.
- [02:17]
Joanna Coles
I'm Joanna Coles, this is the Daily Beast podcast and oh my, do we have a conversation for you today that I think is going to get you shouting at whichever device you listen to the podcast on. It's Anthony Scaramucci to work with Trump, you know him well. He's a regular favorite of this podcast, being very provocative. Really throwing down the gauntlet to Democrats on this one and saying, come on, Trump is still winning the culture wars. He's still winning, guys. That's what he thinks. Yes, the price of gas is up at the pump. Yes, people don't like ice. But Trump still has a kind of chokehold on the culture wars. And Anthony is worried that if Democrats don't step up, the November elections are not going to be. What I think we're all assuming is, well, take back the House and maybe take back the Senate. It's a very provocative conversation. Stay tuned. Just want to remind you, please subscribe to the Daily Beast if you haven't. We're trying to get to 700,000 subscribers by the end of this month. I'm sorry, I'm slightly hoarse. I've been traveling. But I can assure you this is a good conversation you will not want to miss. Anthony Scaramucci, welcome to the Daily Beast podcast. Back again. You look. I've never seen you look this smart. Last time you came into the studio, you had a leather jacket.
- [03:44]
Anthony Scaramucci
Well, I mean, you know, playing my role. I don't know. It's the tie I wore at the White House press conference, by the way, 10 years ago. But anyway, no, I'm.
- [03:55]
Joanna Coles
It is.
- [03:56]
Anthony Scaramucci
I'm playing a role in a British television show. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to disclose it, but I have to go do a little bit of acting. Joanna. But aren't we all acting?
- [04:09]
Joanna Coles
It won't be acting for you.
- [04:11]
Anthony Scaramucci
Isn't all the world a stage? Isn't all the world a stage? How are you, by the way?
- [04:17]
Joanna Coles
I'm all right. I'm actually back in the UK for my mom's funeral. But it's great to see you. Thank you. It's great to see you. And I'm so curious. We're recording this just after the UFC fight on the South Lawn of the White House. You and I have both spent time in the White House. It feels like a sacred space, and this felt like a massive intrusion. And I'm really curious, what are the conversations going on by the people who are working with Trump right now about. About the ufc, about the sort of coarseness that he has brought to American politics?
- [05:00]
Anthony Scaramucci
Well, first of all, I'd be remiss in not saying this, so my condolences to your family. You know, I lost my dad a few years ago, so I know the pain of all this, and thank you so My condolences to you and your family, Joanna. I would say on Trump that there's a, like Dickens would say there's a tale of two cities, but when the music is off and people are talking confidentially, there's a tale of one city. And so the two city tale is Trump is losing it. He's slightly deranged and he's out there fighting this culture war to try to trigger the liberals and he's trying to do certain desecrating things to the White House, number one, because he can. And number two, because he enjoys the reaction of so many. And then the, the flip side of it is the other side of it at least the public facing side is, you know, we're with him the whole way and everything he does is a genius mode 19 dimensional chess. And even though his approval ratings are down right now, he's the, you know, he's opening the straight and there'll be no tolls played. And I, he keeps saying nuclear dust, which I don't understand how a thousand pounds of a fissile material is dust, but that's a whole other topic. And so, so those are the two sides. But when you get people unplugged and they want to talk to you openly, whether it's a congressman who I donate money to or it's a staff member, somebody I work with on MAGA1, that's still part of MAGA2, they're worried because, let's face it, I mean, this could newsfast to foreign leaders. They know this already. But the decision making in the American government is down to a committee of one. And so I can't say anything that's less American than that. If you looked at the process from the founding of the government 250 years ago to the processes that have been in place for the ensuing two and a half centuries. So that to me is terrifying on so many different levels. But it's a person now that has a very short attention span who's very incurious, who's now faced with, you know, my podcast colleague Katty K. Calls it Obama Derangement Syndrome. Okay. Where if you actually, if jazzly phrase it out. Yeah, yeah, so it's odious, right? ODs. But it's also odious.
- [07:26]
Joanna Coles
Oh, that's very good.
- [07:28]
Anthony Scaramucci
Okay, yeah, so I can't take credit for that. That's a catty K invention. But, but I think that is the big dilemma now because there's no way you can turn the UX cube on this deal with the Iranians. Any way that you want the colors still come up worse than the jcpoa. There's nothing he can do and, or say he spent several hundred billion dollars prosecuting the war. He's exposed a seam of weakness in the American military doctrine. He's hurt our allies in the Gulf. He's probably caused, by our estimates here at SkyBridge, $700 to $800 billion of global economic damage in terms of higher prices, less consumption, energy supply, shock, ensuing inflation. You know, we started the year with likely three Federal Reserve interest rate cuts. We now have the prospect of a potential rate increase. So that's 100 basis point, or a 1% differential on borrowing costs. That has a huge impact on corporate America, consumer spending, credit card debt, et cetera. So he's done a tremendous amount of damage. And then if you just look at what's in the Memorandum of understanding, if he's releasing $24 billion of frozen assets, well, that's. Let's do the math together. That's 12.8 times more than what President Obama did when he and Fox News and the others were roundly critical of the jcpoa. So the bottom line is you've got a person who is playing for the theatrics. If you're a culture warrior in the United States, he is winning the culture war. And that's. I say that with great sadness because the Democrats don't even understand the culture war. They're out there railing on the flyover and they're railing on him walking around with Dana White in the White House and the advertising, all the garish advertising and the display, which, you know, we can find it offensive to our minds. But then you're not really understanding America. And Joanna, you're a Brit, so I'm going to say it to you the way Americans get it, okay? We're talking about Murica. Do you know what Murica is?
- [09:52]
Joanna Coles
Go on.
- [09:53]
Anthony Scaramucci
Okay. When somebody says Murica, that's not an east coast city, that's not New York City. That is the buckle of the Bible Belt. That comes with hot dogs, it comes with fast food, it comes with nascar, it comes with Formula One, it comes with UFC fighting, both male and female. It comes with tattoo parlors, okay? And it comes with a grittiness, a lot of oil staining on the uniforms of working class people. And so Trump gets that, and people can dislike that or they can find a distaste for it, but they're going to lose 80 to 90 million people. And what Trump did last night with the UFC is very important. He's going after low information voters, primarily male, and he's bringing them literally into the political theater. And those are the people that helped carry him to the presidency last time. So the real question before all of us is, was that just a night or was that a setup for a good November?
- [11:05]
Joanna Coles
Let me tell you about Oneskin. They're a skincare company focused on Science and their OS1 peptide is designed to target the root causes of skin aging on a cellular level. I've been using the OS one face moisturizer for a couple of months now and it's super easy to use. It's got a nice nutty fragrance. It's effortless to layer because it's lightweight and it leaves a good dewy feel on my face. And, well, you can be the judge. Honestly. How does my skin look to you? And by the way, I like their sleek packaging. It's easy to pack. Born from over a decade of longevity research, with OneSkin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthiest skin now and as you age. So for a limited time, try OneSkin with 15% off using code BEAST at OneSkin Co BEAST. That's 15% off OneSkin Co Beast. And be sure to use the Code Beast at the checkout. After the purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. So please support our show and tell them we sent you. Let me just ask you a couple of questions. First of all, on the deal or no deal around Iran, does Donald Trump understand that this is a worse deal for America than the jcop, than the Obama deal? Does he get that? Does he understand that essentially he has surrendered here, Anthony, or does he actually think it's a win?
- [12:48]
Anthony Scaramucci
Really good question. So in his quiet moments, in his mind, he understands that this has been a disaster. He understands that.
- [12:59]
Joanna Coles
Does he actually understand that?
- [13:00]
Anthony Scaramucci
No question. No question. Remember, remember something? People always famously say, I was there for 11 days. I worked for the guy for over a year. I was part of that 12:00pm 11:00pm to 12:00pm phone call circuit. He's a lonely guy. They show up for the UFC fight, but they don't live in the White House with him. So he's a lonely guy sitting in that 132 room mansion calling his people. And he's on a, he's not listening to them. He goes on a stream of consciousness rant to them on the phone as he calls the different people. Who's on the rotisserie now, guys like Scott Bessant, Marco Rubio, Howard Lutnick, and he'll go through the rotisserie phone call, but I've been part of that. I know how his mind really works. And inside there, he knows that this was an adjective failure. Inside there, he knows that this was a play. He got overplayed by Benjamin Netanyahu. And when he was told by the military intelligence community not to do this, that they would induct the Mosaic Defense Doctrine, which if you'd like me to explain that to your viewers and listeners on. Happy to. It's interesting. I was in Berlin last week speaking at a small dinner. There was probably a combined half a trillion dollars of assets in the room. I asked people to raise their hand if they knew what the Mosaic Defense Doctrine was. Nobody knew what it was.
- [14:25]
Joanna Coles
All right, you must totally explain it. Explain it. Explain it for us. And then I want you to come back to the psychology of Trump understanding that this hasn't worked.
- [14:36]
Anthony Scaramucci
This is part of that psychology. So the Defense Intelligence Agency, the CIA, goes to the President, says, okay, listen, the Iranians have formulated something that they call the Mosaic Defense Doctrine. What is that? Well, they've studied us in Afghanistan, in Iraq, over a quarter century of fighting, and they've studied the Mossad and the idf, and they understand that there is a potential decapitation strategy that could happen politically, meaning some combination of the Americans and the Israelis come in and try to remove our leadership in an effort to create regime change or a revolutionary overthrow. And so what we're going to do is set ourselves up into 31 separate and semi autonomous units, and then we're going to have a ranking. And so if they kill the first 40 senior leaders, no problem. We go to the number twos of each. Oh, they kill those, no problem. We go to the threes and fours, all the way down to the nines and tens. And so this way we'll be able to keep the regime going no matter what the Israelis or the Americans try to do in terms of Predator drones, smartphone explosions, whatever they try to do to us. And so that got inducted immediately after the war happened. And Trump was told that this was going to happen, but his response was, well, I'm smarter than everybody. My brain is bigger than yours, and what worked for me in Venezuela is going to work for me here. And then he was searching for a secular leader that he could negotiate with. But this is a country that's been captured by fundamentalism for 47 years. So as those layers were getting removed, he was finding more and more revolutionaries and less secularists, which was something he expressed in terms of his frustration. And so now you're here. Second stage of the Mosaic defense doctrine is to control the Strait of Hormuz. And so, because if you look at geography, they have a pressure point there, more so than the Omanis or anybody else in the Gulf. And so they. They did the two things that our CIA and DIA said that they would do. And so Trump said that they wouldn't do that because he's all knowing, and that's his personality. So, again, the quiet part of Trump knows that this has been an abject failure. The lacquering part of Trump and the denialism of Trump, which has been the cornerstone of his success for his entire public life, is now what's kicked in. And so he's putting out headlines. You know, the Hormuz Strait is open. There will be no tolls. This is an unconditional victory for the United States. The Iranians are putting out, probably this is the irony of this, Joanna. I never thought we'd be in a situation where we would trust the Iranian missives and their communiques more so than the American ones, but the Iranians are putting out something that's actually more accurate. And of course, the president, if you notice, he's not tweeting about it. He's going to go into, you know, you've heard of five stage clingers. He's going to go into five stage denialism, and he's going to triple down on this, and he's going to start saying things to people that are absolutely not true, but he's going to adhere to something that he firmly believes. And he told this to Leslie STAHL In a 60 Minutes interview long ago. I'm going to lie. I'm going to say it 100 times. And the more times I say it, the higher the likelihood is that people are going to believe it. And he's also figured out that a lot of his followers get their information directly from him. And there's such an anti establishment movement in the country that when something happens to somebody like Platner in Maine and he's exposed for sexting or whatever the thing may be, the reaction from the American people is like, oh, that's the establishment hitting the guy because he's one of us. He's part of America. See what I mean? And so they discount the actual facts on the ground or the moral or the various improprieties of the person, and they say, oh, that's the establishment picking on him because they're out to get all of us. Okay. Oh, and by the way, they've done it, they've done it to Donald Trump. So that, that's what's going on. So he's going to triple down on this lie because he has no other choice. He can't get out of this situation and get the prices lower in the United States and the Straits semi opened unless he does that. And so this is a way worse deal. He'll tell people it's a way better deal and he'll live in that denialism. But down deep he knows that this is an abject failure. Are you one of those media strategy
- [19:30]
Joanna Coles
people clicking through slides, scrolling spreadsheets?
- [19:34]
Anthony Scaramucci
Yes. Good. This is for you. Because on Spotify there's an audience that's different. Locked in, loyal, invested. They're called fans. Fans don't just listen to music. They feel seen by it like it belongs to them.
- [19:48]
Joanna Coles
So when your brand shows up on
- [19:49]
Anthony Scaramucci
Spotify, that's who you're talking to. And you're right next to artists like me, Lizzo. So are you ready to talk to fans? Spotify advertising, you're among fans.
- [20:00]
Joanna Coles
So what about Marco Rubio and Peter Hegseth and all the people who are dealing with him? And you mentioned Scott Besant and Howard Lutnick. I mean, Scott Besant and Howard Lutnick must know that this is a terrible deal for America, that this is far worse than. So how do you manage a man at the center of it who, as you say deep down, knows that this is a catastrophic deal for America in comparison to what it was? How are you supposed to manage, manage someone like that? And what do you think they should be doing?
- [20:34]
Anthony Scaramucci
They're going to do what they're doing. Because I was there, Joanna, and I think I've mentioned this to you, okay? They have Potomac Fever. Okay, so what is Potomac fever?
- [20:45]
Joanna Coles
Right?
- [20:47]
Anthony Scaramucci
Fever. Yeah. You cross the river, Potomac, and you're subsumed with your own significance and you think you're the man or the woman. You're going to ride around in the presidential motorcade and fly on Air Force One and you've got all the cameras in front of you and the microphones, you know, you're the man, okay? And you're there to change the world and you're going to change Washington, but you know, Washington always changes you. And so they, they've made that capitulation. And by the way, one of the great symptoms of Potomac fever, Joanna, is you don't know you have Potomac fever. So you're sitting there, I remember you saying that. Yeah, you're sitting there in your own delusion. So I had it. And so he knows that this is a terrible deal. He's sitting there ready to vomit that he's got to choke over $24 billion of frozen assets to the Iranians. He knows that they're put over a barrel. He also knows that it's been a billion dollars a day that the Treasury's been funding to foment the war. And the war has gone on way longer than Benjamin Netanyahu said it was going to go on. And so they're sitting and they also know that this is a 60 day MoU that converts into a binding agreement, but they don't have a timeline for that. Because, you know, and I know just a little bit of cursory journalism, you know that there's no meat to any of it. There's no semblance to whether there's going to be a toll on the straight transaction fees, what's ultimately going to happen. But the thing that Bessant knows that other people don't know, that they should know, is that the Gulf has now been transformed for the worse as it relates to the United States of America. And so the Gulf countries, those Sunni countries sitting on the eastern side of the Gulf, were frankly paying the Americans for protection and they were patronizing the Americans through capital investments in the country, military subsidy on those bases, low oil prices, et cetera, they were paying for the protection. And lo and behold, it turned out that the protection wasn't what all of them thought. And they will likely back channel now to the Iranians. And remember, the Saudis were doing that through the help of the Chinese intermediaries with the Iranians a few short years ago. And so they'll probably back channel and start hiding off a piece of that protection payment that was going to the Americans and start giving it to the Iranians because their attitude will be, okay, you got the strait, here's some money, get the strait open for us, okay? And so the great irony here is someone was really sitting down with the President and briefing him. He would say, well, the outcome of this war, epic fury, you've put the Iranians in a way stronger position as a result of it. You didn't wipe out their military. You know, Trump wants you to think those missiles and drones that are hitting the Gulf countries are imaginary missiles and drones. He's put out 35 times that he's ended the war and he's put out 40 times that he's wiped out their whole military, yet they still have a Very capable military because they've been planning this. They put much of their munitions underground or deep into these mountains that were protected from the missile strikes. And so if you were briefing the President right now, you'd say, okay, we are in a way weaker position. The Gulf states are going to have to put a portion of their money towards Iran. You've turned us ironically into a hemispheric power as opposed to a global power. And we better hope that we get our economic supply line straight in the Pacific. Because if we get our economic supply lines straight, we'll probably be okay from that point of view. But if we don't get it straight, you could see Taiwan cede to Taiwan is effectively the Cuba of China. And they'll probably cede to the Chinese government at great economic loss and hardship to the Americans in the rest of the West. And let me just state two last things quickly. It turns out that the TPP was exactly what we needed at exactly that time. And just to remind people what that was, it was an 11 nation deal with the Americans be a free trade agreement, more or less, that would protect those nations from the behemoth China and would put more pressure on China through the help of that trade. The President ripped it up has, you know, because I listen to him and I actually still get emails from the Treasury. In many of his speeches he talks about the idea of having a trade agreement with non aligned Asian countries. Excuse me, Mr. Secretary, we were doing that 10 years ago. So the great irony. And point number two, the great irony is the TPP is something we needed. Trump ripped it up. The JCPOA was a way better way to approach Iran. Okay. And the strait was fully open, unfettered. We've now caused at least a trillion dollars worth of economic damage to the world. And the strait, it's inconclusive as whether or not it's going to be open. So how do you reconcile all that? But here's the problem, Joanna. The way I just articulated it to you, I have found no Democrat that is articulating it to the American people. I found no Democrat that can cross over into Murica, that culture that I'm describing to you and can reach the Murricans and tell them what is actually going on with the country and how misguided President Trump's policies and the implementation of them actually are.
- [26:49]
Joanna Coles
So when you say that, do you just feel that the Democrats don't yet have candidates who have enough chutzpah in a way or have enough performance energy to take Trump on? I mean it should be fairly easy to say this is a man who led us into a war, having campaigned on the fact that he was never gonna lead us into a war. I mean, there seem to be so many ways that you could get at him. Not least that this is a war measured in the price at the pump. Everybody's feeling that.
- [27:19]
Anthony Scaramucci
Anthony, what I would say to you is the approval ratings are the tell. You know, if you look at the cross tabs on the approval ratings and being generous to him, he's at 39% being ungenerous to him. Based on the way you ask the question, he's at 31 or 32%. So those are very low approval ratings. But when you then ask people about the Democrats, they don't have high approval ratings. They have very what I would describe as net negative approval ratings. And so I'm simply saying that there are a couple of things going on in the country at the same time. There's an economic debacle. I think the President's getting a thumbs down for that. There's a culture crisis. There's the woke versus the non woke America. And when you poll that, it's a very small percentage of the people that want what we would describe as liberal wokeism. Most of the people don't want that. And so the President understands that, which is why he put out that advertising after the transgender athletes were performing in high school. Maybe there were 10 of them in a population of 330 million people, but he spent hundreds of millions of dollars portraying that in the negative way that it was presented. That worked for him. The UFC fight is an emblem of that. You know, he wants to provoke, agitate, and trigger people, and he's doing a pretty good job of that. They don't get it, you know, and rather than fighting him differently, they want to fight him by doubling and tripling down on this stuff. You know, look, Mondani is a very popular mayor in the city of New York, a place that I, you know, I go to my office every day. Very popular here. But is he the type of national figure that could carry the whole country? I don't think he could. Those democratic socialist policies. This is not that type of a country. And so you tell me where they're going to line up. They treat Newsom like he's the second coming of Ronald Reagan. Like, yeah, he's a governor from California, but he's like, righter than Ronald Reagan in the minds of these leftist. So to me, who are they going to field up against? The Republicans and So, yes, they have negative ratings, negative on the economy, but they win the culture war here, Joanna. And that's the irony of the thing, and I can't emphasize it enough to my effete, uber intellectual elitists that are in the salons of the wealthy on the Upper east side here, or maybe down in Georgetown and Washington. I'm like, guys, what are you doing? Okay? That's not the country that you're living in, okay? And you got to be very careful. These guys actually have the right trigger points on this country, and you could get these messages across. But embrace those people rather than hating on them. And I'll just say this, Joanna. I can tell by the way I'm treated by certain people on the left. You know, I'm a centrist Republican, always have been. I was with Trump, saw the evils of it. I left Trump. There's a group of people on the left that under no circumstances will ever accept me in any way, shape, or form. And that's fine. That's okay. You can do that. It's a free country. But you can't do that to 80 million people. Joanna, they voted for Trump. Okay? Bring them back into the tent. Stop the nonsense of sneering and pedantically looking down on them.
- [31:02]
Joanna Coles
So I think you're raising something which is really interesting. There seems to be an assumption that somehow the Democrats are going to get the House back with a landslide. They may even get the Senate. Are you saying you don't think that's gonna happen? Because I take your point that there's no national leader yet of the Democratic Party, but there do appear to be popular local candidates.
- [31:25]
Anthony Scaramucci
Okay, well, I mean, let's talk about the gerrymandering for a second. Okay? And again, you don't have to go by me. There was a New York Times article related to this. You know, you have 25 seats that are in contest, and if you look at the map, you already know who's gonna win in the remaining 410seats. So let's say the Democrats win every one of those. They will control the House, okay? And, you know, if you look at the prediction markets, they're getting an 82.5% probability that the Democrats will control the House. But I'm just. I'm just saying to you that the gerrymandering has almost taken the contests out of the races. And so it's way closer than people think, is all I'm saying. Because a couple things could. Could break the Republicans way between now and November. Maybe prices of oil will come down, maybe something else will happen. Maybe they'll be up, up the ante in the culture war. I wouldn't be sitting here, you know, 120, 150 days out from the election and think, I've got this, and being complacent about it. You know, that again, you know, the rise of Trump is concomitant with the failure of Democratic candidates to understand and address Trump. There was only one that was able to do that, that was a mediocre elderly candidate during COVID who was able to beat Trump because they went with what they saw as a sane grandfather over the crazy uncle during a pandemic. But they returned to the crazy uncle, okay, when the sane grandfather looked like he was sunsetting. And so they picked the older sister to come in to replace the sane grandfather. They said, we don't like the older sister. We're gonna go back to the crazy uncle. Okay? So now who are the Democrats gonna put up? And again, I'm not saying Trump is on the ballot, but his messages and the cause of populism in the country are on the ballot. And here's the irony. Trump has done nothing to help these people. Their economic plight has actually gotten worse. But they are adhering to him because he represents their anger. Joanna. So who is it on the Democratic side that can relate to those people and can say, hey, you know what? You were with Trump and all is forgiven, and you gotta forgive us, too. Come back to us. You know, your grandparents voted for Kennedy or Johnson or great grandparents voted for Roosevelt.
- [34:08]
Joanna Coles
But, Anthony, do you not think that people see the rising price at the gas pump? Do you think that they're not moved by the deaths in Minneapolis of Renee Nicole Goode and Alex Pretty? Do you not think that they feel for their brown neighbors who are terrified of getting picked up by ice? Do you not think there's been a ripple effect from Trump, too, that has alarmed Americans who feel like, you know what, this actually isn't our country? And I totally take your point about Democrats being patronizing Murica, as you call it, or the flyover states, as others call it. But you don't think that people just feel in their pocketbooks, this hasn't been good for them, that they didn't want a war with Iran and that Trump has somehow finagled it. You don't think people see that?
- [34:54]
Anthony Scaramucci
I think people see it, but it comes down to the way those congressional districts are constructed. And, you know, if you look at that article in the New York times, you have 181 seats that lean hard Republicans. Okay? So you're already, you're already got a pretty big base. Even if there are people in those districts that agree with everything that you just said, they're being overwhelmed due to the way the district has been cut with enough Republican support. So. Yes, no, I absolutely see it. I'll say it differently to you. Are you in a real democracy, Joanna, if the politicians are picking the voters, you know I said that at the Scott Galloway event the other night. The voters should be picking the politicians.
- [35:42]
Joanna Coles
Right.
- [35:42]
Anthony Scaramucci
But under gerrymandering, the politicians are actually picking the voters. So everything that you just said, if those congressional districts were set up and they look like the geometric shapes that you and I would have recognized from 9th grade geometry are the ones the way they looked when I was a kid, then the House would overwhelmingly go to the Democrats. Okay. They would still have a tough time in the Senate because the lesser populated states that are red have two senators apiece, which is the equivalent to the blue states of New York and California, which are proportionately way higher populated. They also only have two. I mean, think about the genius of the Dakotas. You have north and South Dakota that have a combined population just over the island of Manhattan. Okay. And they have four senators representing those two states. Okay. That's the tyranny of the minority, Joanna. So everything that you just said. Yes. Okay, let me reframe it and repository for your viewers and listeners.
- [36:53]
Joanna Coles
But do you not think that people in the Dakotas are feeling the price at the pump? I get what you're saying about the district and the German.
- [37:01]
Anthony Scaramucci
They're not going to, they're not going to vote Democrat in those states. They're overwhelmed with.
- [37:06]
Joanna Coles
They're just never going to vote.
- [37:08]
Anthony Scaramucci
They're never going to do it.
- [37:08]
Joanna Coles
Do you think they'll just sit at home?
- [37:10]
Anthony Scaramucci
Yeah, they're Christian conservatives. There's, they're, they're like New York and California that are one party systems. They're by and large one party systems out there. And they'll generate four red senators come hell or high water. But again, I want you to think about it, Joanna. You have 40 ish percent of the people are registered now as independents. That's way more than Democrats and Republicans. And then number two are Democrats. So the Republicans have the least number of acknowledged registered voters yet. They control the House, the Senate, the Supreme Court and the American presidency. So you don't think the Democrats, they've been playing a different game than the Republicans. Republicans have understood how to exercise the tyranny of the minority. You see, the founders were worried about the tyranny of the majority, which is why they empowered each state with two senators, they created an electoral college, et cetera. So the Republicans looked at that and said, oh, okay, I got this. They're trying to protect you against the tyranny of the majority. We're going to execute a strategy that puts the minority in power, and they've been very, very successful at that. And the fact that the Democrats don't understand it, like, if you bring up Operation Red Map to the Democrats, they don't even understand it. These guys funded all of these local races to flip state assemblies and state senators over to the Republicans so that they control the map, okay? And they've been very, very successful at doing that. And so. So, guys, I don't know. You're not. It's not enough. Everything you just said, Joanna, which I totally agree with, and I have been an outspoken critic of Donald Trump, and I fear for our society, our culture, and our constitutional process because of people like Trump. Everything you just said. So I'm with you the whole way. But the response to it has been lackluster. And the advocacy of the other side in terms of dealing with and bringing over the current MAGA voter and making that current MAGA voter a former MAGA voter, a decultification, if you will, a deprogramming, that's not happening. These people are looking at those people and they're ready to write them off. Joanna.
- [39:41]
Joanna Coles
But, Anthony, that we know that lots of people in America, as you call it, there were Obama voters there. We were told, oh, America will never, never vote in, as president, a black guy. And yet they did. And yet millions of Obama voters also voted for Trump. I mean, that is the sort of charismatic leadership that wins over people, regardless of gerrymandering and red stating places. I mean, someone who speaks in a bigger way.
- [40:13]
Anthony Scaramucci
I don't, I don't see it that way. You know, and I respect your opinion, but I don't see it that way. What happened here is you, you put up a leader in 2016, you know, very nice person, Secretary of State Clinton, very articulate, likely would have made a great American president, but she didn't do the campaign work. Okay? And so I'm saying to you that Trump's rise is concomitant with the failure of the Democrats to nominate people that were just middle of the road people. Biden was a middle of the road person beating a sitting president. He beat an incumbent President Trump.
- [40:57]
Joanna Coles
But do you think he would have beaten him again.
- [40:59]
Anthony Scaramucci
I don't think Biden in the state that we saw him in June of 2024 could have beaten Donald Trump during the debate. I do not think so.
- [41:08]
Joanna Coles
I agree with you.
- [41:09]
Anthony Scaramucci
I think if they had another debate, it would have been equally disastrous and I think Biden would have gotten knocked off the stage and there would have been way more consequential damage down ballot. Okay, so they had to seek his removal. You could question whether or not they should have went to a mini primary process like President Obama was suggesting or just going with the Vice President. We can debate that, but it's over now. I'm just saying Trump's rise is concomitant with the Democrats picking people that weren't capable of handling and or dealing with Trump. And had President, excuse me, had Secretary Clinton dealt with candidate Trump, we'll call him candidate Trump, not president at the time more seriously and said, okay, we're in the fight of our lives. I'm going to go to. Trump went to Wisconsin 14 times. I went no times. Trump went to Pennsylvania 22 times. I went one time. You know what, we're not going to do that. We're going to work as hard as he is in those areas to bring out the vote. And if you remember the polling, okay, it's nine years ago, but there was a seven point premium on Secretary Clinton the whole way until the end, Joanna. And they overly relied on that. They were overconfident and they missed the mark. And so his rise is a direct result of their failure to select candidates that could take him on. That's all it is. He is not the boogeyman, okay? He's not a popular figure, okay? He is a lesser of two evil figures in this country. A lot of people on Wall street, my buds, okay, they voted for the guy in 2024. They saw him as pro business, lesser of two Eagles. A lot of people in the Midwest, they held their nose to his peccadillo's and his corruption and his self dealing. They saw him as the lesser of two evils. I just think this has to be a way. I don't think the Democrats. Hold on, let me see. Are there any Democrats out there? You get what I'm trying to say? No, you don't actually that's the problem.
- [43:25]
Joanna Coles
I think there are a lot of Democrats shouting at you, Anthony, saying what about JB Pritzker? What about Mark Kelly? There are also what about Wesmore? What about Gretchen Whitmer? What about Gavin Newsom? Definitely.
- [43:42]
Anthony Scaramucci
Joanna, let me put it back to you. It's your show. Those people, they have the star.
- [43:47]
Joanna Coles
No, they don't have the star power and they don't have the television familiarity that Trump had. But Trump is a kind of a once in a lifetime guy. You can't seriously be saying that you think that J.D. vance has the charisma to take over from Donald Trump or that Marco Rubio does.
- [44:03]
Anthony Scaramucci
I have said for the last year that it won't be J.D. vance. Trump is doing everything he can to eviscerate Vance. Okay? He'll fire Rubio before the term's out to embarrass and disgrace Rubio, which will have its own set of consequences. You know, the good thing for the Democrats is Trump is a total nihilist. He'll do everything he can to destroy those guys because he's such a narcissist. He doesn't want anybody to succeed him. He wants to be the guy. And so he'll almost be happier if a Newsom succeeds him. So he could be like, hey, man, you Republicans were nothing before I got here and you're nothing again. Okay? But no, those people do not have the star power. Those people that you're describing, Remember, this is not a hiring process. Shapiro is an incredibly competent guy, would make a phenomenal president if he got the job. But he's got to get the job, Joanne. And this is a but they're not.
- [44:58]
Joanna Coles
They're not running against Donald Trump.
- [45:00]
Anthony Scaramucci
And as you said, I understand that, but they don't get this.
- [45:03]
Joanna Coles
He's a nihilist.
- [45:05]
Anthony Scaramucci
They don't get the culture, though. That's my point. They're not running against Trump, but you should get them on your show and you should say, what of the 80 million people that voted for Donald Trump? What is the strategy to get them back in the tent and see what they say?
- [45:23]
Joanna Coles
Okay. It's a fair point. So, Anthony, final question then. What are your buds, as you call them on Wall street, saying about this? And you say that lots of them voted for Trump. He's anti regulation, he's pro business, which Joe Biden certainly didn't feel like he was pro business. And a lot of the Democrats don't. What do they need to vote Democrat?
- [45:46]
Anthony Scaramucci
I think they would need a moderate Democratic leader. Right. I think they would need a. I'll use something. I really date myself. They would need a dlc. You remember the Democratic Leadership Council.
- [46:00]
Joanna Coles
Yeah.
- [46:00]
Anthony Scaramucci
This was a moderate pro business council of the Bill Clintons and the Bob Rubens. Okay. They would need that. The Wokeism the wealth taxes, the confiscation of their wealth. They're not up for that. Okay. Now, I would also stipulate that I think a lot of these guys are making a mistake. I would take Jensen Huang's approach. I'm a New Yorker. I pay my taxes, never complain about my taxes. I made the money here in this beautiful city and I'm staying here. I don't even have any property outside of New York. But a lot of these guys don't think like that, but they should start thinking like that because you don't want to be in a have and have not society. You know, you're pulling away from people now in a very robber baron like way, like what was happening in the 1890s. And we got very lucky. You had McKinley and Roosevelt and others that broke up the trust and built a platform for the middle class. We have apathetic politicians that don't want to do that now. And you're running a risk as a super wealthy person that you'll get some form of socialism or some form of creeping communism. Actually, this is the irony of it. You should pay your taxes and you should focus on educating these people and giving them some platform of equal opportunity. But nobody's talking about that. So what the Democrats are saying, hey, we're social Democrats, we're Democratic socialists, blah, blah. That's going to be very. It's going to be very dangerous for the society. That. That's all I'm saying. And so my, my, my Wall street bros are going to vote Republican because of that. And to me, you know, listen, I don't know. I'm upset about it because I grew up as a blue collar kid thinking I was going to be successful. And I'm looking at those people today and I'm saying, yeah, it's going to be way, way harder. It's not a glass ceiling, Joanna. It's a concrete ceiling. It's gonna be way harder for those people. And it doesn't have to be in a wealthy country like this.
- [48:05]
Joanna Coles
Do you not look out and see any Democrat that you think could pull this off?
- [48:10]
Anthony Scaramucci
No, actually don't. So if you can help me find one, I'd love to have the conversation with him. You know, I think Newsom, ironically has the best chance because he is physically ready for primetime television and he's verbally dexterous. I saw him destroy Ron DeSantis in a debate on Fox News. And, you know, he's a white male. Okay. Which, you know, people are gonna be mad at me, I guess, because it's not politically correct to say this, but I think the Democrats probably need a dose of that right now. And so, yeah, I think he could pull it off, but he's got to get the nomination in a very fractious party. And he's got to also go up against the bad branding that the right has fixed on California. Where I think that's ironic is California is the fourth largest economy if you pull it out of the United States. And it's got so many different great things going on in it, from Silicon Valley all the way down to Hollywood and agriculture, defense spending, it's just an incredible place. Does it have pockets of problems in terms of its urban economics, et cetera? Sure. But if he could overcome that, could he beat any of those Republicans that they would field? Yes, I think Gavin is probably the most likely person to pull it off.
- [49:34]
Joanna Coles
What about you, Anthony? What about you, Joanna?
- [49:37]
Anthony Scaramucci
There's no place for me to run. First of all, the Democrats would never accept me because I was once with Trump. There's 20% of them that want to put my head on a spike. You know, I mean, trust me, I'm very well aware of that. And the Republicans, you know, to quote my older son, my son's like, dad, you've ruined my networking opportunities. I'm like, why is that? Well, the Republicans hate you. You left Trump, okay? And the Democrats hate you because you were with Trump. So you put me in nowhere's land. And he's sort of right about that. But the messaging there is. I'm searching for the truth like everybody else, but there's no place to run for a person like me. You know, you would have to see more of a cremation of the society, an annihilation of the society where people were like, okay, we're going to break the totems of this two party system, this cartel, this duopoly that's existed the last 50 years. We're going to have to break the duopoly to get a sensible person in. And then I wouldn't pick, pick me for that. I would pick somebody like Jamie Dimon. But I'm just saying you don't have. The structure of these parties is not set up to get the mic, you know, the executive style leadership of Mike Bloomberg or somebody thoughtful that's going to be less focused on the ideology in place right now. Joanna, I just don't see it. If you see that, you let me know. You send me the memo. Joanna, maybe you'll see it differently than me. You're a little Bit like a de Tocqueville in America. You may see it before I do in my dreams.
- [51:08]
Joanna Coles
In my dreams. Anthony, I will say that lots of people, including I'm sure Jamie Dimon, want him to run, and yet people don't think he can get elected. He's not well enough known. And to your point, the thing about Trump having star power is that he had 14 seasons of a television show, and it's almost impossible to find anybody that has that presence, except for perhaps Gavin Newsom, because he's had exposure, because he's had a sense of fun going up against Trump, because he seems fearless against Trump. And there are lots of people that still seem very frightened of Trump, even Democrats.
- [51:43]
Anthony Scaramucci
Yeah, I think it's well said. I think there's a lot of truth in what you're saying.
- [51:47]
Joanna Coles
Okay, well, Anthony, it's always good to have you on the podcast. I can hear people shouting at you. I can hear them.
- [51:55]
Anthony Scaramucci
Well, I want them to be mad at me. I want them to be mad at me because I want to provoke them. Guys, wake up. One of your jobs in Mission Impossible. This podcast is gonna self destruct in five seconds, but one of your jobs and Mission Impossible bring over some of the 80 million people that voted for Trump. Okay, hold your nose and figure it out.
- [52:17]
Joanna Coles
And I think what Democrats should be doing is not talking about taxing people more. It should be about more economic opportunities. That's what people want. Wealthy people don't want to be taxed more. I'm not wealthy and I don't want to be taxed more. I don't mind being taxed, but I don't want to be taxed more. But I do think we should have better economic opportunities for people, and that's what Democrats should be leaning into anyway. Anthony, it's always fun to see you. I'm excited to hear about your role in this. Is it a drama that you're going off to? Yeah. You said you were taking part in a television show.
- [52:51]
Anthony Scaramucci
I mean, do I. How do I look? Am I all right?
- [52:54]
Joanna Coles
You look fantastic. You always look fantastic.
- [52:57]
Anthony Scaramucci
Thank you.
- [52:57]
Joanna Coles
You look particularly smart. You look particularly smart.
- [53:01]
Anthony Scaramucci
Remember, I'm an actor now, so I need to have my self esteem built up, you know, prior to getting on stage.
- [53:06]
Joanna Coles
Anthony Scaramucci, you do not need your self esteem built up. You do not.
- [53:11]
Anthony Scaramucci
Okay, I appreciate that, Joanna. Thank you.
- [53:14]
Joanna Coles
I'm 100% confident of that, my friend. Anyway, it's very good to see you and perhaps you'll run for mayor. Maybe you should run for mayor. Of New York City. You talk about the city you love.
- [53:25]
Anthony Scaramucci
We got plenty of time for all that stuff.
- [53:27]
Joanna Coles
We got plenty of time. We never have enough time. Anthony, it's always good to see you and we will see you again soon.
- [53:33]
Anthony Scaramucci
Looking forward to it, Joanna. Thank you.
- [53:38]
Joanna Coles
Okay, so we cannot complain. The mooch doesn't come to play. He really does. What provocative opinions. I want to know what you think. Please hit our comments with what you think. Is he right? Should the Democrats take the midterms for granted? Has the gerrymandering basically baked in a Republican grip on this nation? Has Trump won the culture war? And I'm still wondering, has Trump won the Epstein files? So join us again tomorrow for Inside Trump's Head. And as always, thank you for joining us. If you have been. And a big thanks to our production team, John Romero, Ryan Murray, Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many Beast Tier members now, there are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support. Hey guys. I found the only gift that dad wants this Father's Day. Goldbelly. Goldbelly ships the most iconic foods from the best restaurants across the country straight to his door for free. Let him relax and enjoy Award winning barbecue from Texas, Epic deep dish pizza from Chicago or colossal pastrami sandwiches from New York. Make dad feel like an absolute legend this Father's Day. And go to goldbelly.com to get 20% off your first order with promo code DAD. That's goldbelly.com code DAD.