The Daily Beast Podcast

Episode: Why Epstein's Shadow Still Haunts Trump
Host: Joanna Coles
Date: December 25, 2025

Overview

This explosive, multi-segment episode revisits and expands on The Daily Beast's deep investigation into the enduring relationship between Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein, and why Epstein's specter continues to threaten and unsettle the Trump presidency. Through candid conversations, first-person accounts, and two decades’ worth of reporting with figures like Michael Wolff, Tina Brown, Stacy Williams, and Cleo Glide, the episode explores the toxic overlap of power, predation, secret-keeping, and moral compromise at the highest reaches of American society.

Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Trump vs. Musk, and the Unresolved Shadow of Epstein

Guests: Michael Wolff, Joanna Coles
[04:44–17:18]

• Michael Wolff summarizes the latest confrontation between Donald Trump and Elon Musk, noting how the nuclear option is now Epstein: Musk publicly hints Trump is implicated in Epstein files.
• Wolff recounts firsthand knowledge of Trump and Epstein's close, mutually beneficial partnership:

  “Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump were the best of friends for a very long time. For 15 years. They shared girlfriends, they shared airplanes, they shared business strategy… They were inseparable.” (Michael Wolff, 06:26)

• Wolff personally has seen "pictures of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein's girls together," with references to compromising imagery held by the FBI after Epstein's arrest.
• Trump’s profound anxiety around the subject is highlighted:

  “If you ask about Epstein, he will end the interview and you won't get anything.” (Wolff, 09:01)

• Trump is described as unbeatable because of his ruthlessness, but Musk is portrayed as a rare challenger with enough power to go toe-to-toe, potentially changing the paradigm.
• The power of social platforms (Trump's Truth Social, Musk's X) is discussed as accelerants in these public feuds.
• The possibility that Musk’s attacks are driven by ulterior motives—recovering lost Tesla loyalty, shoring up political capital—is floated.
• The status of the infamous Epstein "client list," and whether Doge (Elon's AI data venture) may have its hands on secret dirt, is speculated upon.

  “There are about a dozen [pictures]. Two of them with topless girls of an uncertain age sitting on Trump’s lap.” (Wolff, 16:28)

• Notable quote:

  “Everything Donald does is hidden in its brazenness. You just do it right out there. And everyone goes, well, that can't be happening, because it's totally wrong. And he's doing it right in front of everyone.” (Stacy Williams, 35:18, later in her segment)

2. First-Person: The Model’s Experience in Trump and Epstein’s Orbit

Guests: Joanna Coles & Stacy Williams
[17:20–56:46]

• Stacy Williams details her trajectory from rural Pennsylvania to New York’s elite modeling world—“shit magnets” for predatory powerful men.
• Describes introduction to both Trump (at SNL taping) and Epstein (through her agent at a dinner).
  • Recalls Epstein as seemingly harmless at first, intelligent, not condescending—but ultimately exhibiting dark, manipulative behavior, including claims to secret video footage (41:18).

  “He liked to intimidate. He liked to send out kind of subtle messages and threats to sort of signal rather than be direct.” (Williams, 40:06)

• Chilling account of being taken to Trump Tower by Epstein and groped by Trump in Epstein's presence, with neither man treating the act as surprising or noteworthy.

  “Donald came out of his office... and started groping me while the two of them continued having a casual conversation.” (Williams, 33:39) “I froze. I was just confused because they were continuing to talk as if nothing’s happening.” (Williams, 35:18) “Everything Donald does is hidden in its brazenness. You just do it right out there.” (Williams, 35:18)

• After the incident, Epstein furiously blames Williams for "letting" Trump do it, cementing the sense of predatory collaboration and manipulation.
• Williams describes ending her relationship with Epstein and his odd, emotional reaction, hinting at his deeply compartmentalized nature.
• On the MeToo movement: Williams reflects that public conversation only recently started “denormalizing” the kinds of abuses she and others experienced as models in the 90s.
• Williams kept a Trump-signed postcard from Mar-a-Lago (“Stacy, your home away from home. Love, Donald”, 46:08) as a bizarre trophy.
• She affirms her story’s veracity and notes polygraph validation—underscoring the difficulty and risk for women speaking out about powerful men.

3. Modeling’s Glamour and Peril: Cleo Glide’s View

Guests: Joanna Coles & Cleo Glide
[56:49–93:54]

• Cleo Glide reflects on her 1980s–90s modeling career as “the keys to the city,” where beauty opened access to power but also danger.
• Glide was introduced to Epstein as an eligible, “player” bachelor—described as enigmatic, on the A-list, with no known reason to fear him at first.
  • Recounts socializing with Epstein in a seemingly platonic dynamic—“we became friendly... sought out each other’s company and we did hang out in a non-sexual way.” (Glide, 60:13)
• She provides a surreal story of dressing up (unknowingly with a “nurse” vibe) for a Trump/Epstein “adventure” at Trump Tower—described as trophy parading, with Donald Trump “eager to please” but not overtly creepy that day (67:55).
• Glide details a later unwanted sexual advance by Epstein on his private plane—"the pounce"—which shocked her and ended their close friendship, but not contact.

  “He got that sort of gimlet stare... that kind of lustful laser beam focus most women have probably experienced.” (Glide, 75:42)

• She describes Epstein’s routine normalization of the sexual exploitation and his bizarre, objectifying “burger” nickname system for women.
• Molten recollection of how, in retrospect, what felt like harmless fun and glamour had a dark, predatory undercurrent—survivor’s guilt and shame for not having seen it sooner.
• Glide expresses hope that her story is just “another shard of glass in the kaleidoscope” of the full truth.

4. Inside Reporting: Breaking the Epstein Story & Its Fallout

Guest: Tina Brown (former Daily Beast editor), with Host
[96:30–138:54]

• Brown details how The Daily Beast, under her leadership, first commissioned deep investigation into Epstein’s crimes before “MeToo” gave such stories mainstream traction.
• Explains how Epstein used his network, money, and legal threats to manipulate both society and the justice system, securing a 13-month “slap on the wrist” sentence despite abundant evidence of serial abuse.
• Brown shares a chilling personal encounter—Epstein smuggled himself unannounced into her office demanding she "just stop" publishing about him:

  “He looked at me with these snake eyes. Cold. And it was menacing. It was a really menacing... He pointed his finger and said, ‘just stop… there will be consequences.’” (Tina Brown, 107:32)

• Epstein’s power was built on “social theater”: using others’ fame (e.g. Prince Andrew, Woody Allen) to create allure, covering for his secret predation.
• Brown addresses how the full range of Epstein’s connections (Clinton, Summers, bankers, British royalty) might never be unraveled—his web entangled people for different reasons, not always illicit, making focus and accountability even harder.
• The episode reflects on the string of suicides or mysterious deaths—victims like Virginia Giuffre, accomplices like Jean-Luc Brunel—swirling around Epstein’s wake.
• On Trump:

  “Was he in that, that scene with Epstein? Absolutely. But what’s complex is, I don’t happen to think little girls are the president’s thing… [But] they were both hunting women—there was a clearly a bond... He obviously doesn’t want to talk about it.” (Brown, 123:49)

• Brown and the hosts analyze why this particular scandal is so “sticky” for Trump—it aligns perfectly with MAGA’s obsession with pedophile rings and anti-elite resentment.

  “His superpower has been that they believe they have... this bond of sensibility and value to him. And if they think he’s just... calling them weaklings and get on the train... I don't think that’s gonna play well.” (Brown, 128:02)

5. Firsthand: Michael Wolff on Epstein, Trump, and the “Inner Circle”

Guests: Joanna Coles, Michael Wolff
[140:04–172:55]

• Wolff gives a detailed, sometimes chilling insider’s account of being courted by Epstein to write a book and invited to his legendary gatherings where the likes of Bill Gates, Peter Thiel, Steve Bannon, the Dalai Lama, and others mingled.
• Kamikaze insight: Steve Bannon told Epstein, “You were the only person I was afraid of,” because Epstein apparently had the "goods" on Trump. (143:03)
• Wolff describes Epstein as addicted to collecting influential people for his salons:

  “Everybody showed up there, certainly willingly and because they adored this guy.” (Wolff, 158:58)

• On the elusive “client list”: Wolff suggests the real mystery is actually the source of Epstein’s wealth—he called it a “reverse Ponzi scheme,” hiding rich men’s assets through divorce and tax shenanigans.
• On the young women present, in the gatherings Wolff attended: mostly assistants, “room decorations,” not overtly underage but young, and never central to the gatherings’ discussions (169:28).
• On the DOJ's motives in 2025:

  “The Attorney General of the United States works as an adjunct to the West Wing... virtually no pretense of independence.” (Wolff, 145:24)

  • Implies the continued closing of ranks around Trump regarding Epstein connections.
• Conclusion:

  “There is at the center of this a relationship between two men who are doing the same thing... one ends up dead in the darkest prison in America, and one ends up in the White House.” (Wolff, 167:26)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump were the best of friends for a very long time.”
  — Michael Wolff, 06:26
• “Everything Donald does is hidden in its brazenness. You just do it right out there. And everyone goes, well, that can't be happening, because it's totally wrong. And he's doing it right in front of everyone...”
  — Stacy Williams, 35:18
• “He looked at me with these snake eyes. Cold. And it was menacing. It was a really menacing... He pointed his finger and said, 'just stop.'”
  — Tina Brown, 107:32
• “He was a master class con man. He could get what he wanted.”
  — Tina Brown, 105:53
• “I didn’t know I’d end up needing a polygraph for this story.”
  — Stacy Williams, 52:51
• “He liked to intimidate. He liked to send out kind of subtle messages and threats to sort of signal rather than be direct.”
  — Stacy Williams, 40:10
• “There is at the center of this a relationship between two men... one ends up dead in the darkest prison in America, and one ends up in the White House.”
  — Michael Wolff, 167:26

Timeline: Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:44] – Trump vs Musk, Epstein “nuclear option”
• [18:27] – Stacy Williams details 90s modeling, meeting Trump/Epstein
• [33:39] – Trump gropes Williams in front of Epstein (harrowing account)
• [40:10] – Epstein’s dark, threatening behaviors, secret video
• [46:08] – The Mar-a-Lago postcard from Trump
• [56:49] – Cleo Glide on 80s/90s modeling, Epstein’s early charm
• [67:55] – The “nurse” adventure at Trump Tower, Glide
• [75:42] – Epstein’s unwanted sexual advance on his private plane
• [96:30] – Tina Brown, commissioning original Epstein exposé
• [107:32] – Epstein’s menacing in-person confrontation with Brown
• [123:49] – Brown on Trump’s complicity as “girl hunter,” not pedophile
• [140:04] – Michael Wolff on Epstein’s salons, inner circle, blackmail
• [143:03] – Steve Bannon: “You were the only person I was afraid of.”
• [167:26] – “One ends up dead, one in the White House” (Wolff)

Takeaways

• The Trump-Epstein relationship was intimate, formative, and still radioactive, not only for Trump’s standing with the public but for his own sense of vulnerability.
• The modeling world in the 80s and 90s was a predatory environment, supplying men like Trump and Epstein with ready access to young women, layered with secrecy, shame, and later, deep trauma.
• The full truth about Epstein’s operations, money, and blackmail machinery (if it existed) remains concealed—intentionally, and with the connivance—if not direct control—of the highest powers in America.
• The resonance of the Epstein scandal with the MAGA base’s obsessions creates an existential problem for Trump: this is one scandal that simply won’t go away.
• The most potent element lingering in this saga is secrecy—of files, tapes, unexplained deaths, and the whispered complicity of the elite. The podcast offers no easy conclusions, but makes clear that reckoning, if it comes, will be hard-won, messy, and overdue.

Final Reflection

Joanna Coles closes:

“Power attracts predators, secrecy shields them, and reckoning is often long overdue… The full picture is still coming into focus and we’ll be here to follow it wherever it leads.” [173:09]

This summary is intended as a comprehensive, structured guide to the full episode for listeners and readers alike.