Why Melania Trump Is Hiding From Me: Wolff

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Why Melania Trump Is Hiding From Me: Wolff”

The Daily Beast Podcast
Host: Joanna Coles (with Michael Wolff)
Date: December 19, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into a whirlwind of political intrigue and pop culture, centering around Michael Wolff’s ongoing attempt to serve Melania Trump with a lawsuit, her role in a new high-profile documentary, and the persistent entangling of the Trump family with power, media, and controversy. Other hot topics include impending revelations from the Epstein files, power games in the media industry, the Trump children's latest engagements, worrying developments in Europe, and the enduring drama of the Trump inner circle.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Michael Wolff vs. Melania Trump: The Lawsuit Saga

Timestamps: 02:56–06:07, 13:10–22:23

• Wolff’s Lawsuit Background: Wolff is suing Melania Trump after she threatened to sue him for $1 billion over his discussion of her alleged connections to Jeffrey Epstein.
• Serving Challenges:
  • “It’s quite unclear how you serve a subpoena on someone who has one of the most elaborate security details in the world.” – Michael Wolff (03:03)
  • Her lawyer refused to accept the legal documents; serving her via the White House isn’t practical as "she doesn't live there" (18:14).
  • Attempts at Trump Tower led building staff to confirm Melania resides there, though they threatened to throw out the subpoena (19:35).
• Wolff’s Motivation:
  • “Having been sued, we can now subpoena her to come in and testify about what she knows about Jeffrey Epstein.” (17:50)
• Strategy: If Melania continues to dodge being served, Wolff’s team may seek court permission to proceed, demonstrating “all possible efforts.” (21:23)
• Commentary on Trump Legal Tactics:
  • “Isn’t this what Trump always does? Delay, delay?” – Joanna Coles (21:37)
  • Wolff expects Melania will ultimately be forced to testify, perhaps timed alongside her documentary premiere (22:04).

Notable Quote

“Melania Trump is hiding from me.”
— Michael Wolff (02:56)

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2. The Melania Documentary: Hollywood, Media, and Image

Timestamps: 06:07–13:04

• Trailer Release: The trailer portrays Melania as glamorous and witty but has few views despite the hype (08:10).
• Hollywood Ties: Directed by Brett Ratner, now attempting a comeback after #MeToo scandals (“Brett Ratner, back in business.” – Michael Wolff, 10:08).
• Release plans: Unique for an Amazon project, the documentary will debut in theaters globally.
• Speculation on Melania’s Role: The film appears to re-brand her as America’s preeminent First Lady, separated from Trump.
• Financial Stakes:
  • “She’s got $40 million, plus 70% of the back end, plus 100% of the $10 million sponsorship hits she’s selling.” – Michael Wolff (08:00)

Memorable Moment

“This movie is making it as if she’s actually our First Lady...the biggest First Lady who has ever been the biggest First Lady.”
— Michael Wolff (07:22)

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3. Power Struggles: Media Mergers, Billionaires, and Allegiances

Timestamps: 10:12–13:04 + Interspersed

• Major Hollywood Studio Bids: Paramount (Ellison family) vs. Netflix vying for Warner Discovery, with implications that Trump prefers supporters of his administration.
• Brett Ratner’s Involvement seen as a symbol for cronyism and transactional loyalty.
• Billionaire Dynamics:
  • “It is an administration for billionaires and certainly by billionaires.” – Michael Wolff (12:35)
  • Noted presence of Musk, Ellison, Bezos all involved in media or tech arms overlapping with Trumpworld.

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4. The Epstein Files & Political Calculations

Timestamps: 04:02, 13:04–17:47, 26:25–28:19

• Epstein Files Looming: Awaited for release, with wide speculation about their contents and their potential to implicate figures close to Trump.
• Political Timing: Drop timed amid significant national distractions, like Trump’s address to the nation and the Survivor finale.
• Bill Clinton’s Invocations: Discussed as a regular target in the narrative, though key insiders challenge claims about Clinton’s involvement.
• Trump Addressing the Nation:
  • Motive seen as distraction and self-promotion rather than genuine crisis communication.

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5. Trump Family Drama & Social Circle

Timestamps: 28:22–40:10

• Don Jr.’s Engagement: Now to Bettina Anderson—whose father reportedly had business ties to Jeffrey Epstein—after high-profile relationships with Vanessa Trump (now with Tiger Woods?) and Kimberly Guilfoyle.
• Kimberly Guilfoyle’s Transformation:
  • Noted as emblematic of media archetype shifting from liberal San Francisco prosecutor to Trump advocate and Fox News mainstay.
  • Humorous gossip and “Basic Instinct” references to her style choices (34:36).
• Marjorie Taylor Greene/MAGA World: Transformation from Trump’s loyal subordinate to an “implacable antagonist,” serving as a political bellwether and comic-book villain.
• Personal Anecdotes: Both Wolff and Coles share stories about their children’s interests, roles of technology in family life, etc.

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6. War in Europe and Foreign Policy Floundering

Timestamps: 47:34–53:56, 57:41–59:29

• NATO and MI6 Warnings: Quoting statements that Europe is “in the most perilous situation since the 1930s.” (47:46)
• Trump’s Foreign Policy: Critique of incoherence; “America First” ideology seen as abdicating global leadership and inviting instability.
• Contradictions: Decries funding for Ukraine while supporting military interventions elsewhere.
• Role of Advisors: Suggests real policy is shaped by MAGA ideologues with Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff acting in transactional “dealmaking” capacities.

Notable Exchange

“Man of peace, whose isolationism is going to cause a war in Europe is one thing, but then there’s these other wars that he is actively engaged in.”
— Michael Wolff (51:35)

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7. Pop Culture, Media, and Satire

Timestamps: Interspersed

• Recurring satirical takes on Melania and Trump-related media stunts, including the influence of Brett Ratner and plans for office watch parties.
• Allusions to “ladies who lunch” as Melania’s imagined Manhattan support base.
• Running jokes: “She’s playing the part of First Lady—sometimes absentee, sometimes present.” (07:18)
• Reference to MLAG women’s cosmetic surgery, before-and-after memes, and assorted tabloid fodder.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 02:56 | Michael Wolff | "Melania Trump is hiding from me." | | 07:22 | Michael Wolff | "This movie is making it as if she’s actually our First Lady...the biggest First Lady who has ever been the biggest First Lady." | | 12:35 | Michael Wolff | “It is an administration for billionaires and certainly by billionaires.” | | 13:10 | Michael Wolff | "I am suing her because she threatened to sue me for a billion dollars because I talked about her relationship with Jeffrey Epstein..." | | 17:50 | Michael Wolff | "Having been sued, we can now subpoena her to come in and testify about what she knows about Jeffrey Epstein." | | 21:37 | Joanna Coles | "Isn’t this what Trump always does? Delay, delay?" | | 34:36 | Joanna Coles | "She was basic instinct." (re: Kimberly Guilfoyle) | | 43:17 | Joanna Coles | "[Marjorie Taylor Greene] reminds me of one of the witches in Macbeth." | | 51:35 | Michael Wolff | "The man of peace, whose isolationism is going to cause a war in Europe is one thing, but then there’s these other wars that he is actively engaged in." |

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 02:56: Opening of the Melania legal saga (“Melania Trump is hiding from me.”)
• 06:07: Documentary trailer discussion and Ratner’s involvement
• 13:10: Lawsuit strategy and Melania/Epstein connections
• 17:47: Legal technicalities of serving Melania
• 26:25: The meaning of the upcoming Trump address and its relation to other news drops
• 28:22: Trump family dynamics and Guilfoyle anecdotes
• 40:10: MAGA women, cosmetic transformations, and media archetypes
• 47:34: European security concerns under Trump
• 57:41: Feasibility of Russian expansionism & analysis of Putin’s goals

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, witty, and laden with savvy political gossip
• Michael Wolff brings dry skepticism and first-hand insight
• Joanna Coles is sharp, humorous, and unafraid to poke fun at the personalities involved
• Frequent, pointed asides about media spectacle, political hypocrisy, and the surreal nature of the Trump-era news cycle

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For Further Reference

• Michael Wolff says he has written a detailed dispatch about suing Melania on his Substack (22:47)
• The team plans to closely monitor and review Melania’s upcoming Amazon documentary and any fallout from the Epstein files

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Summary prepared for listeners who want to catch all the substance, satire, and scandal without wading through the full episode.

Transcript

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[Michael Wolff]

Melania Trump is hiding from me.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

No, she's avoiding you.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

And how do you know that?

[Michael Wolff]

You begin with the fact that no one, it's quite unclear how to sue the first lady of the United States. There's not a lot of models for this. And then obviously it's quite unclear how you serve a subpoena on someone who has one of the most elaborate security details in the world.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Michael. Joanna, I wish people could have seen you come into the office this morning dressed as Nanook of the North.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, you know, it was very, very cold when I Left at before 30 this morning.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

You looked like someone from Alaska. I mean, you could raise your leg to show people your snow boots, which I couldn't stop laughing at. And you had a hat on and then you had a kind of bare skin of a coat.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, no, no, I'm ready. I'm dressed for all possibilities, all occasions. Just tell me I got the wardrobe for it.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Okay, well, there's a lot of occasions coming at us today because we've got the Melania premier and we need to know the update of what's happening with you in Melania. We've got the Epstein files this week, which we need to talk about. We've got Mark Burnett pleading with Donald Trump not to drop his address in the middle of the Survivor finale.

[Michael Wolff]

We've got, in other words, because we have the president's address, which is right. Which is key, that comes before the drop of the Epstein files.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Right. And the kickoff. So distraction, right? Distraction, distraction, distraction. The kickoff of the midter terms, essentially. We've got two engagements to celebrate and we've got potential war in Europe. So we have a lot to get through. And we have the economy.

[Michael Wolff]

Cratering economy, cratering economy.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

And everything feels expensive. You have a daughter. How many dolls are you buying her? Between 2 and 30. Where are you?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, alas, my daughter is 10. So that you enter a new phase in which it's not good enough to buy dolls anymore. You have to buy technology.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Oh, you have to buy technology. I was thinking at 10. You would be peak doll.

[Michael Wolff]

No, I think peak doll was like eight. Now it's. We're. We're into. We're moving into preteen.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Preteen need a phone. And then she's gonna find out what you do for a living. She's gonna be searching for you.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, Alas, that already happens.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Scary stuff.

[Michael Wolff]

She has a watch.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Oh, she hasn't. She has an apple watch.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, because that's in lieu of a phone. We don't want to give her a phone.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

You would not be allowed to be a parent in Australia. Does they ban social media for anyone under the age of 16?

[Michael Wolff]

No. I know, but does that include an apple watch? You know, there are so many back doors to this thing. Good luck. Good luck, Aussies.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Okay, we're already off track. Let us focus on. The trailer has dropped for Melania's video.

[Michael Wolff]

And it is quite extraordinary. Well, extraordinary is exactly what we would have expected.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, go on.

[Michael Wolff]

It's Melania. It's Melania as Melania. She is the personality. She is the wondrous life of Melania. And keen wit.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

And keen wit.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, the wittiest thing she says is when Donald calls her and says, did he see it? Did he see it? And she goes, hello, Mr. President. No, I will watch on yours.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. So which immediately does she call him? Mr. President?

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

I think she does when she's winding him up. Well, he probably likes that. Right?

[Michael Wolff]

Or more. More to the point with Brett Ratner behind the camera there. This is entirely a setup. Okay, let's do this. Let's do a little routine here. I mean, she is, remember, an actress. I mean, not a successful one, but she was a model. Well, she was a model with the hope and dream of becoming an actress. And she has played several completely irrelevant parts.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

And now she's playing the part of first lady.

[Michael Wolff]

Sometimes.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Sometimes absent, absentee first lady. But this movie is making it as if she's actually our First Lady.

[Michael Wolff]

And I suspect it will make us. It will make her out to be the biggest first lady who has ever been the biggest First Lady.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Biggest First Lady. So big. So big. Huge first lady. I'm not. I'm not very good at doing Donald Trump, but I couldn't resist that. And very passive aggressive to say. When he says, did you see it? She goes, no, I will watch on television.

[Michael Wolff]

No, I think this is going to be very much about her separate from him.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Right, right. Well. And we know she's got $40 million, so that's good to start the divorce.

[Michael Wolff]

$40 million, plus 70% of the back end, plus 100% of the $10 million sponsorship hits she's selling.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

I will say that on YouTube, she had less viewers watching the trailer than we have. When we drop a new episode, I'm very mindful of the numbers, and I was surprised that it was as low as it was given how much it looker loved.

[Michael Wolff]

When do you know?

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Yeah, it dropped this morning. We're recording this on a Wednesday. It dropped this morning.

[Michael Wolff]

Okay, we'll keep track of that.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

And she had 4,000 views now.

[Michael Wolff]

And this is the other thing that should be an interesting note from this trailer is that this opens in theaters. I mean, this is a. This is. Remember, this is an Amazon project, so it's a streamer's project, but unlike most streaming projects, it's not opening on the streaming platform. It's opening in theaters worldwide.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Worldwide. Worldwide. I wonder how many theaters. And obviously we're going to organize a trip from the office, but the minute it drops on Amazon, we have to have a watch party. In fact, we should probably go and see it together the minute it opens and give as quick a review as we possibly.

[Michael Wolff]

I think we should interview people on the movie line.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Oh, that's a good idea. Well, then maybe.

[Michael Wolff]

Do you think it will be around the block several times?

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Oh, for sure, for sure. Yeah. Especially in New York. We're going to meet her biggest fans. Her biggest fans.

[Michael Wolff]

It's almost hard to imagine her fans in Manhattan. Maybe the ladies who lunch.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

The ladies who. I think there are a lot of Melania's friends here, because we know.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, then, yes, those are the people who would. Who would be lining up, because I don't think that there's other first lady fans who don't know her, but maybe I'm wrong.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, we're going to get to know her much better, obviously, in this movie. And Brett Ratner, who's out from beneath the crushing metooism of his 2017 days.

[Michael Wolff]

Brett Ratner, back in business.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Back in business.

[Michael Wolff]

And Paramount, we can. We can wind this in. So Paramount. Oh, my God.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

They've had to commission Fast and Furious. Are those his movies or is it Rush Hour?

[Michael Wolff]

Rush Hour. Rush Hour.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

What if they've had to commission Rush Hour four unnecessarily? Because that bid has fallen apart for Warner Bros. Or at least Warner Brothers has rejected it.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, no, no, they have still. This is their plan. They have an audience of one. The President of the United States can essentially give them this deal. And again, so Paramount and Netflix are both bidding for Warner Discovery.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Right.

[Michael Wolff]

And Warner's favors Netflix and has approved that deal. Paramount, which is owned by Larry Ellison, owned by the Ellison family. It's run by. Financed by Larry Ellison, run by David, second richest man in the world or some such, and run by his son David. And they have now they have made a hostile bid for Warner. So they go directly to the shareholders and say, our bid is better than the Netflix bid. Vote for us. And part of the rationale is the Netflix bid is never going to get through because Trump and the and the FCC are going to block it. But they will approve our deal because they like us better, because we are supporters of the president. And on top of that, we have given Brett Ratner, the First lady's filmographer. What should we call him? I mean, he's a director, but even so, it seems like he is in her service.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

So it's interesting, I hadn't put this together before, but the first richest man in the world, Elon Musk, obviously ran Doge. Second richest man in the world at the moment, who I think is Larry Ellison, is scrambling to get TikTok and Paramount. Third richest man in the world, I think, at the moment is Jeff Bezos doing the Melania documentary.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah.

[Jerry Insurance Announcer]

No, no.

[Michael Wolff]

And we should do a whole. We should do a separate thing. Trump and the billionaires.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Yep.

[Michael Wolff]

I mean, very key. I mean, that isI mean, it is certainly a underlying theme and it may be an overriding theme of the Trump administration. It is an administration for billionaires and certainly by billionaires. Yes. Including Donald Trump, who, if he wasn't a billionaire before, there was always doubt about that. Certainly has become one now since he has come into the White House the second for his second time around.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Okay, so, Melania, Melania, Melania, tell us where you are with your.

[Michael Wolff]

I am. You've been promising an update, as viewers of this podcast perhaps know. Suing Melania. I am suing her because she threatened to sue me for a billion dollars because I talked about her relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, which is the last thing she wants to have talked about, especially because this documentary project is coming up, which she has so much money at stake here. And I dare say we are not, in this documentary going to hear the name Jeffrey Epstein, but let me evoke the name Jeffrey Epstein.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Epstein. Epstein. Epstein.

[Michael Wolff]

And so when she sued, when she threatened to sue me for discussing her relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and the three of them together, before she could file that suit, I sued her because in New York State, it is illegal to use libel laws to intimidate someone, in other words, to file a suit which you have no chance of winning, or threaten a suit which you have no chance even of filing, just to get someone to shut up. So we have filed a suit. We filed that suit on October 22nd. So when you sue someone, you have to serve them. You have to officially notify them that they are being sued. And it's a very formal process. And if you get your service wrong, your suit can be thrown out on that basis, which is why often people who know they're going to be sued hide from the process servers.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

So this is someone actually physically turns up and gives you an envelope? Yes.

[Michael Wolff]

You have that happen to you? Yes, yes. I mean, there's a very clear procedures for this, of how you have to do it, who does it. I mean, it's kind of ritualistic, but at the same time, they hold you to it. You gotta do this. It would appear that Melania Trump is hiding from me.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

No, she's avoiding you.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

And how do you know that? Have you tried to sue?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, so, yes, so we have. You know, the first, I mean, first thing, you begin with the fact that no one. It's quite unclear how to sue the first lady of the United States.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, it's the first language.

[Michael Wolff]

There's not a lot of models for this. And then obviously, it's quite unclear how you serve a subpoena on someone who has one of the most elaborate security details in the world. Right, okay, two impediments here. But you would think that there would be a kind of, okay, this is going to happen and eventually, eventually will happen. Or you go to court and explain what you've done to the court. And then the court says, yeah, you've made every effort here, so let's consider.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

And you can't serve her lawyer. You can't serve her lawyer.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, no, you can. You can. You should be able to. In fact, in that original threat letter from her lawyer, a man by the name of Alejandra Brico.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Brito.

[Michael Wolff]

Brito Britto, yes. In Coral Gables, Florida, said, you know, please direct all your communications to Melania Trump through this office through me. So, okay, great. So we went to his office to serve him and he said, no, I'm not accepting service. And that's interesting. In other words, you don't know. It may well have been that he's just been hand. He's handling the other Trump libel suits against the BBC, against the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Wall Street Journal. So it may be that he just got the libel portfolio. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'd. You deal with all this stuff, and then suddenly and unexpectedly, he finds that what he's done has caused the first lady now to be sued, which, let's imagine she's not too happy about.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

And remember, I'm not happy about being.

[Michael Wolff]

Sued because having been sued, we can now subpoena her to come in and testify about what she knows about Jeffrey Epstein.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Be best sued. Yes, be best sued.

[Michael Wolff]

So it may be that he's in trouble about this. So anyway, so he said, no, I'm not accepting service. So therefore, can you serve the White House?

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Can you serve the White House?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, then, I mean, the White House is probably the hardest place to serve. And those that guard post on Pennsylvania Avenue, I mean, actually, I know those guys. They're always very nice guys, but I'm sure that they're like, I don't know. But she doesn't live there.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

She doesn't live at the White House.

[Michael Wolff]

So therefore, we took the next logical step, which is to serve her at Trump Tower in New York. So we got the server company, the subpoena guys. You know, we said, you know, we need you to serve papers on someone at Trump Tower. And they were like, okay, yeah, no problem. I suspect that a lot of people in Trump Tower get served, served subpoenas. It's a whole building of dubious characters. So anyway, they took the service, and then after they. They accepted. This began in somewhere, sort of as though midway in this, we got a call and they were saying, hey, you're trying to serve the First Lady. We're not doing that.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Who called he.

[Michael Wolff]

The subpoena guy, the subpoena people. So, you know, they're like, no way. No way are we serving the first lady of the United States. And you get a sense, I mean, that sense that this is totally, totally unfamiliar territory. So then we got another service service company who, and this was just yesterday, they went to Trump Tower, and two interesting things. They were, the guys at Trump Tower said, we're just going to throw that in the garbage. We're not taking that. But to the question of whether or not Melania Trump resides here, they said yes. So she hasso we now have specific testimony by people who would bewould certainly know that Melania Trump lives at Trump Tower. She does not live in the White House, although she's been spending, seems to have been spending somewhat more time in the White House recently. And maybe that's actually to hide from me.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

So Melania Trump is hiding from you. And in fact, it turns out she lives, after all, in Trump Tower.

[Michael Wolff]

Indeed. So at any rate.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

But she still leaves you with papers to serve.

[Michael Wolff]

No, still. So we will, and I believe this is happening on Friday. We go into court and explain what we've done. And then the court, and this is pro forma. I mean, you're just filing, you're essentially just filing papers. I mean, the court is going to say, yes, you have what made all.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

The possible efforts that you've put in. Yes.

[Michael Wolff]

So why they would be hiding, why they would be putting up this, this effort is unclear. But anyway, she will be served by the end of this week.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

But isn't this what Trump always does? Delay, delay?

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, yes, just the Trump.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

So she'll be served on the day. You'll go to court, on the day the Epstein files are, in theory, released, whatever they contain.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, this is very exciting. So two days after her trailer drops, she'll be the first lady to be sued officially in court or the next stage of the case will go ahead.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. And she will have to testify and she will have to answer questions about, about her relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. And perhaps we will do that. Schedule that for the day, the day the documentary opens.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

The day the music died. Oh, Melania, Melania, Melania, Melania. Well, well, well. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Oh, to be the first first lady.

[Michael Wolff]

But let me just add that I have an account of this and I must say, an amusing account.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Oh, you mean you're writing it next book?

[Michael Wolff]

No, this is just a dispatch. A Melania dispatch on my substack page.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Delicious, Delicious. All right, so Donald Trump is addressing the nation this evening, and Mark Burnett, his old producer from the Apprentice, has called the.

[Michael Wolff]

This is, this is because this evening is the.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Was the finale of Survivor.

[Michael Wolff]

It's the finale of Survivor.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Right.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Finale of Survivor.

[Michael Wolff]

So this is a big. If you're the producer of a television show and especially if you're Mark Burnett who hasgets the lion's share of the revenues from this television show, you are really unhappy if anything comes around to disrupt that.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

How out of touch are you as a president or the team around the president to not know it's the finale of Survivor because also the president's going to want good ratings for this, and that's not going to help. My money's on Survivor.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think that he doesn't. I mean, first thing, I'm not sure that that's true. This is going to be I'm assuming all three networks are going to carry this. So he's not going to be competing with Survivor. Survivor is either pushed off the air at that moment in time or delayed. I mean, I don't know how they.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

How they, or interrupted. Maybe they interrupt it.

[Michael Wolff]

But he has all three networks. This is as though the old days.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, four if you count Fox News.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. Well, that's not a. Oh, it's cable. Cable, yes. I'm sure it will be carried by MSNBC and you know, it's all. But nevertheless, it's wall to wall. You're going to get the President of the United States because he's called up the, the television world and said, here I come. Now, that's interesting in itself because given all of the competition in the television world over the last quite some time now, and certainly the last, the Biden presidency and the Obama presidency, when they called up the networks, the networks have said maybe not. And this didn't used to be true. In the old days when the president called, everybody preempted. Yes, right, of course. But now with cable and what that why do we have to do this? So it's interesting that he seems to have gotten that traditional regard and that may have come about because he threatens all these networks if you're not his friend, you're his enemy and he goes after you. So everybody's like, okay, sure.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, and ABC and CBS have already had big settlements with him, $15 million, $16 million.

[Michael Wolff]

No. So and of course, in the old days you called up the networks because you had something important to say. It might appear now that he has nothing important to say. Of course, we don't know this because it hasn't happened yet. But all indications are that he has commandeered the networks to tell the country what a great job he's done.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

I was thinking it might be a pronouncement about Venezuela, but according to the Hill, it's an up sum of the year and how great the year has gone and then looking forward to an even greater year for 2026.

[Michael Wolff]

No, I think that you can one of the ways you can read this as the launch of the midterm campaign, I mean, depending upon how you see this year. This year has certainly been a dramatic year. But whether or not you see it as a great year or an utterly failed year is, well, partly what the next election will be about.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

But isn't this also about just the Epstein files are due to arrive on Friday.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. Well, that is the other. Yes. Coincidence of this. He's got the Epstein files, which will land on Friday. Nobody knows what the reaction, nobody knows what's in those files. He probably doesn't know really what's in those, those, those files. And his chief of staff in, in that Vanity Fair interview has already corrected his version of what's in these files.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

So you're referring to Chris Whipple's piece on Susie Wiles, many interviews with Susie Wiles.

[Joe from Vanta]

Right.

[Michael Wolff]

In which he said, you know, you know, it's, you know, Clinton, it's bad for Clinton. And she says, oh, yeah, it's not, it's not bad for Clinton at all.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Right. And she says Clinton never went to the I. Yes, Bill Clinton, who's also been summoned to speak before the Oversight Committee this week. I mean, actually he's due to speak tomorrow or they've requested him to speak tomorrow, but he's been, you know, trying to push that off.

[Michael Wolff]

Right.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Which I'm assuming he'll succeed in, but maybe not.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

All right. So distraction, distraction, distraction. Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein. And then some happy news. Two engagements, not one, but two. Don Jr. To Bettina Anderson.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, you know, I kind of miss Kimberly Guilfoyle.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, she's in Greece. I have to go to Athens to see her.

[Michael Wolff]

I mean, Kimberly Guilfoyle to me is one of the great Trump personalities.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

And to be fair, just to remind people, she was Don Junior's previous girlfriend.

[Michael Wolff]

Having fiance. Fiance.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Okay. Having amazingly been married to Gavin Newsom when he was mayor of San Francisco. How she crossed the aisle, I do not know.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, she crossed the aisle she came from. She was a prosecutor in San Francisco, but she wanted to be on television and she did a lot of local television. And then she got the call to come to FOX News. And that was what Roger Ailes always liked. He liked two things, women who looked a certain way and who were prosecutors. It's just a weird mix.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Meg Kelly was a prosecutor.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, weird, weird, weird. But anyway, she came, she went to work for FOX News and changed her politics utterly.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, she changed the politics. She changed her face, she changed her hair. I mean, she went full maga. Do you remember when she did that yelling at the rnc? The best is yes, is yet to come.

[Michael Wolff]

I do. And then she got a series of higher and higher profile boyfriends and including, you know, remember the, the 11 days. I mean, he's a friend of yours and he's sometimes a friend of mine. The 11 days of Anthony Scaramucci. Well, that was a.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

She went out with Anthony Scaramucci, didn't you know this. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. But I do remember meeting her at a dinner in Connecticut when she was with a guy boyfriend. It was post Gavin Newsom and I said oh hi, what do you do to him? And she said he's the best Porsche salesman on the whole of the northeast coast.

[Michael Wolff]

And a word from our sponsors.

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[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Yeah.

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[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

And Michael Wolff and I are back where else inside Trump's head.

[Michael Wolff]

Now I attended Roger Ailes funeral in.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Palm beach, memorably caught in your book the Fool.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. And this was in the spring of this social humanity.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Wouldn't let Laura Ingram. Was it Laura Ingram. Laura Ingram wouldn't let Laura Ingram on his plane because she was so drunk he was frightened she was going to vomit.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, exactly.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

These are the sort of details we like from you, Michael.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I have another detail that Kimberly Guilfoyle was on this flight and she was in widow's weeds and as my wife who was on the flight observed and in widow's weeds without underwear commando.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

What do you mean she was without underwear Command.

[Michael Wolff]

You know, she was, what can I say?

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

She was basic instinct.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, yes, exactly.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

I'm glad that Victoria noticed this and not you because otherwise that would be very difficult.

[Michael Wolff]

No, and actually I have the exact opposite reaction around Kimberly Guilfoyle. It's really to look away. I mean there's something so overly.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, it's such pick me energy. It's screaming for attention, it's shrieking for attention. And now she's been dispatched by.

[Michael Wolff]

Anyway, anyway, then she went on to be Don Jr. S girlfriend. And I'll say. And this is in some. She got in trouble with Don Jr. S father, the President of the United States.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

She's going to be better off in Greece because her hair can go full Medusa.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, no, I think it's a great, It's a good gig to be the ambassador of Greece. Quite a.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

There's a lot of dolmados coming her way. That's all I can say.

[Michael Wolff]

But she did, you know, I mean this was, was, you know, she was complete. They owned the house together in Palm.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Beach and then along came Bettina.

[Michael Wolff]

I know. And it was a $10 million house because there was a big blow up at Mar a Lago between Don Jr. And his father about where that $10 million came from. So the new fiance is a woman, a Palm Beach. I think what they, what they always describe as A socialite.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Right. Palm beach socialite.

[Michael Wolff]

When you don't know what anyone does and you don't know. Well, if they don't. Yes, yes. If they do nothing and you don't exactly know where the money comes from, but there is clearly money, then they are a socialite.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Okay, so she's a socialite. Bettina Anderson.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. Now, curiously, her father was once in business with Jeffrey Epstein.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

What kind of business?

[Michael Wolff]

Monkey business, I suppose.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Monkey business. Okay. Interesting. Interesting.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. No, it's Don Cheese. I mean, this is a world in the end. It's Palm Beach.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

It's Palm Beach. Probably everybody was in business with Jeffrey Epstein. Perhaps. You told me that Donald Trump isn't. Isn't wild about Bettina. So when they had the party where.

[Michael Wolff]

They had someone else told you that? I don't know that for a fact.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Okay, well, I read somewhere or someone told me that he's not wild about her.

[Michael Wolff]

So I'm still in the Kimberly Guilfoyle.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Yeah. No, no, I see she's occupying a lot of space inside your head. I'm just thinking of what's happening to Kimberley's hair in Greece. Is it humid in Greece or is it dry heat? It's dry heat. The islands is a.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, I think it's dry heat.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

I mean, it's a lot of heat. She's just going to have to control that mane anyway.

[Michael Wolff]

I'm just saying it's a good job to be the ambassador to Greece.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Baklava, dolmades, salad, shaftalia. It's going to be great. She's going to have a great time and lots of very attractive young men on the beach. She's going to have a blast. And if I go there, I'm going to go and try and get my passport stamped personally by her. But I digress because Trump Sr. Is said to not love the idea of Bettina. Maybe because he knows her father hung out with Jeffrey Epstein. Actually, now I'm making that connection. So she, at the party where they announced their engagements, thanked Donald Trump and then said these decorations. Right. And she was referring to Melania's effort with the Christmas trees. Was she complimenting him, saying, goodness, these decorations, Am I right? It's that kind of a.

[Michael Wolff]

You know, I also think that Trump Sr. I mean, he's been through this, will be at least the third. I mean, there was one wife, one fiance, now another fiance.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Vanessa was the wife. Right. Who's now going out with Tiger Woods.

[Michael Wolff]

Really?

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Yeah. Vanessa. Vanessa Trump is now with Tiger Woods. So Upgrade.

[Michael Wolff]

There are 300 people in the world.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

There are 300 people.

[Michael Wolff]

But if I were, if I were the father and the prospective father in law, I would be a little cool until, until the deal was done.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Why is that what you were with your daughters?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I don't, you know, in my case, you know, you know, sometimes, you know, these daughters bring home boys, you get attached to them and then, and then they're gone.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Right, right.

[Michael Wolff]

Have you found that?

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

I have liked all my son's girlfriends.

[Michael Wolff]

And then when they depart, liked all of you.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

I've liked some more than others, if I'm being truthful, some more than others. They've all departed. Yeah, they've all, they've been dispatched or they've dispatched my sons. Anyway, I try and be neutral and just jolly enthusiastic about anybody that comes to the house.

[Michael Wolff]

And remember, Donald Trump is always, always believes that any, everybody and anybody is trying to get something from him.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Right.

[Michael Wolff]

And I would say that that's a, it's not an entirely unfair supposition when you consider the women his sons marry.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

What about Lara? Lara Trump, who's married to Eric. Lara is a singer. She wants to be a singer. She's part of the rnc. She wanted to be senator for one of the Carolinas.

[Michael Wolff]

I think that this is, I'm not sure we should, I think we should save this.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, we can do a special episode.

[Michael Wolff]

A whole episode on the Trump family.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

All right, fine. So I'm going to put that to some side. We'll come back to Lara and her fledgling singing career because I'd like to play some examples of her songs for our viewers. I think they would enjoy that.

[Michael Wolff]

Did you see that there was a video going around about the surgery. The MAGA women have had a.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Before and after. I'm obsessed by that.

[Michael Wolff]

It was extraordinary.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

We should show that, too. That might be another separate episode.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, no, I mean, Lara Trump especially was, you know, a very, you know, quite a striking woman, a very good looking woman. And now it's. She's like a hideous creature having been transformed in this MAGA way. I mean, it's true about them all.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

I mean, I think the biggest transformation is Kimberley Guilfoyle, actually, which we've written about in the Beast, where she went from, from a natural elfin beauty when she was married to Gavin Newsom to being, well, what some cruelly describe as drag queen. Like.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, no, no. When we were on this Sean Hannity's plane and my wife, who's kind of outside of all of this, didn't know who she was and thought she was a trans person until she saw the evidence that she was not.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

I want to move on to our next celebration, which is the engagement of Brian Glenn, who he. You may ask. Brian Glenn posted on his social media. She said, yes. Who is the she? Who is the she? Mtg oh, yes, of course.

[Michael Wolff]

And I. Tyler Green has forgot because she's totally. I try to block Marjorie too. Green. Well, no, she's very hard to block.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

She's hard to block.

[Michael Wolff]

She forces herself back in there.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

She's forced herself back in there. She's forced herself back in there. Listen, she is speaking maga.

[Michael Wolff]

She's speaking maga. She is one of the most prominent political figures in the United States at this point in time.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Yes, she is.

[Michael Wolff]

I mean, from a backwater town in Georgia. Remember, she got elected on a QAnon white supremacist 911 denier platform.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Right. You know who she reminds me of? She reminds me of one of the witches in Macbeth when they are warning Macbeth about what's to come. That's exactly the role that she's now playing. And, you know, the witches start the play and she's saying, you know, prices are up, stop gaslighting people about the economy and wait for the healthcare.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, but let'si mean the transition, the transformation. She is theshe goes from the absolute most lackeyish person to the President of the United States. I mean, histhere is no supporter in Congress who supports him as much as Marjorie Taylor Greene. She also claims, in a comic book way.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, she also claims she spent millions of dollars of her own money when she was running for the seat. Right. To support him, too. Does she actually mean that or does she mean money that she raised?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I don't know. Then there's a whole other thing about how much, how she has profited on this. And that's a whole.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, that's probably an episode on. Honestly, we should have a special episode.

[Michael Wolff]

But now she has become from his most loyal supporter to his most implacable antagonist.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Right.

[Michael Wolff]

Go figure.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

What does that mean? She's going to run?

[Michael Wolff]

No, it just is. Go figure. What is the nature of these people? How does that happen? It doesn't happen, actually. I mean, yes, people have. In politics, you have disagreements and you might distance yourself from. From someone who you otherwise have supported, but the incidence of people going from absolute support to implacable opposition are few.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, I think that's called a reverse J.D. vance. If you think about J.D. vance calling Trump the new Hitler and then as Susie Weil said in her interview in Vanity Fair that she thought his move to Trump was essentially political. And you raised the point earlier today when we were talking that, in fact, Susie Wiles used to.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, that's. I mean, yes. So what no one has pointed out, I mean, is. I mean, people have sort of pointed out that this probably indicates a partiality on her part to Marco Rubio.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Right. Because she works with him.

[Michael Wolff]

But nobody has pointed that fact out that she was on the Marco Rubio payroll. She was a political consultant in Florida. Marco Rubio was one of her clients. And right up until the decision was made, and that was made in flight on the way to Cincinnati for the Republican convention, Right up until that point, she was the key supporter of Marco Rubio. Rubio for the vice presidential slot.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Oh, interesting. Well, she's clearlyi mean, she talks about Marco Rubio in a much more. Well, she says that he absolutely had to answer questions in his soul about supporting Donald Trump. Whereas J.D. vance, she sort of drives by with an insult just saying, well, it was a political decision. Which tells you a lot about how she may be positioning herself in terms of her own support post2026.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, no, I mean, I think she is very loyal to Marco Rubio, and I'm sure she's working that account well.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

And also what's interesting is they all came out to support her after this, after what appeared to be a strangely frank series of interviews where perhaps, I mean, she claims that she thought he was very unfair, Chris Whipple was unfair, but he's like, I've got it all on tape. So either she let her guard down or she wants people to know all this stuff.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, you don't. I mean. Or both.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Or both.

[Michael Wolff]

You know, I mean, it is in these long interviews. That's kind of what we do. And that is the advantage of a.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Long interview and a series of interviews where you get to know people over time.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. I mean, you get to know them and they. They do they start to want to tell you what they think you want to hear. I mean, it's an interesting relationship. Many such relationships I have been part of.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Sure, sure. All right, so now we come to war in Europe. It's this sort of drumbeat in the background.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I think it's an extraordinary moment.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Yeah.

[Michael Wolff]

I mean, you now have the head of NATO saying war is coming. And you have the head of MI6, the British intelligence agency, saying the same thing, saying that Europe has not been in as perilous a moment since, you know, effectively since the 1930s. So I mean, it's kind of extraordinary. And I mean, the emphasis here should be on that we're in this situation because of Donald Trump, because of his, well, his refusal to face down Russia and Vladimir Putin and to name Vladimir Putin as the enemy and his failure to recognize that Ukraine is a first step. I mean, that's what the Europeans are now seeing the invasion of Ukraine as the first step in a broader incursion, to use a perhaps overly euphemistic word on the rest of Europe.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

So I thought one of the strange contradictions in the Susie Wiles interviews was her saying that one of the ways in which Trump is most understood is that he is a man of peace and he's, you know, in theory solved all these wars, wars he's never even heard of, and yet he single handedly by saying he's not going to back Europe, put the world in the most perilous position for 80 years.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, yeah, yes.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

And I mean, with no understanding really of the complexity of what he's done.

[Michael Wolff]

I think, well, that's safe to say. I mean, complexity and Trump in the same sentence. But we have a lot of, we have things converging here. I mean, there is the MAGA position. You know, It's a fundamentally 1930s, 1920s isolationist position.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

America first.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, well, it's America first. And who cares about the rest of the world? It just doesn't involve us. And why shouldand, you know, I mean, Tucker Carlson is a pillar of this point of view. Now why should we spend our resources and the lives of our citizens on issues and places and issues that don't have any, any real direct impact on our lives? And Trump has grown up, inI mean, politically grown up in that point of view.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

JD Vance too, I think, completely.

[Michael Wolff]

And so the thing is, why are we in, why are we supporting Ukraine? Why are we spending all this money in Ukraine? Nothing to do with us. And so, I mean, I think, I mean that is a genuinely, you know, a genuine MAGA position. Now on the other hand, you know, he's also supported, I mean, the war in Israel's war In Gaza, hello, $40 billion to Argentina. Yeah, in Argentina. So that's. So he has this other thing going. The MAGA people are furious about this. I mean, utterly, completely.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, I'm sending a quarter of the US Navy's fleet to hang around outside Venezuela and now blockade their oil tankers.

[Michael Wolff]

Right. So the man of peace, whose isolationism is going to cause a war in Europe is one thing, but then there's These other wars that he is actively engaged in. So where is, what's the, you know, most presidents try to have a coherent foreign policy. I mean, it's usually spelled out in, you know, in a way that lets people, lets people around the world know where you stand. And everything both strategically and tactically and thematically feeds into that view. Now, there was recently a Trump administration statement kind of about its foreign policy, which was basically, we are against immigration in Europe.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, and also saying that European civilization had stalled.

[Michael Wolff]

Stalled because of immigration.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Right.

[Michael Wolff]

So, you know, so we want nothing to do. We don't want to defend, you know, Europe is now a, a brownish continent. So we're less interested in that and much more interested in Russia, which is still a white continent. This is like, I mean, we are so far off the path of post war, the post war view of how to organize the world, how to maintain peace in the world, how to usher in. A basic liberal view of rights and behavior in ielts and the right way. We're all lost at this point. Well, I mean, partly because there's not coherent at any point.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, I was also going to say that his foreign policy seems to be put together by his son in law, Jared Kushner, and Steve Witkoff, the real estate developer and his golf buddy. I mean, it seems to be also done on the hoof, frankly.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. And Witkoff and Kushner, I don't know how much they have to do with this foreign policy. I mean, I see the foreign policy as coming from, you know, the Heritage foundation and the MAGA people. I see Witkoff and Kushner as parachuting in to try and execute it to make some money. Oh, of course. I mean, let' swe can rationalize. I mean, and their view is very clearly we can rationalize this from a transactional standpoint. And Jared Kushner certainly knows that his father in law is not coherent, is not informed, is not to be trusted, is out to lunch on this and who doesn't really care about this. And Kushner's view is that he's a. You know, I'm the ultimate realist and I'm going to, I can arrive anywhere and I can get a good deal for theoretically for the United States, but also for Jared Kushner.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Right.

[Michael Wolff]

Let's take a commercial break.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

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[Joe from Vanta]

In today's digital world, compliance regulations are changing constantly and earning customer trust has never mattered more. Vanta helps companies get compliant fast and stay secure with the most advanced AI, automation and continuous monitoring out there. So whether you're a startup going for your first SoC2 or ISO 27001 or a growing enterprise managing vendor risk, Vanta makes it quick, easy and scalable. And I'm not just saying that because I work here. Get [e-mail].

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

And I'm here with Michael Wolff scrambling around inside Trump's head. So, one question. We know that it's been hard work for Putin to do what he's done in Ukraine. Do we realistically think he can roll into Poland and other Eastern European countries and on up the continent. Given how he's taking a, you know, in theory he's taking a beating at home because so many Russian lives have now been lost. People don't understand why they're at war with Ukraine, even given the Russian media. Well, people have VPNs now. There's much more Western media getting into Russia, you know.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's totally, totally valid. But does he, you know, the fact that he would have thought that he could do this in Ukraine and seems to brush off the fact that it may cost him a million lives would seem to indicate that a rational view of this is not top of mind for him.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Right. And they've certainly been sending over drones, they've been sending flyovers over the space to start unnerving them.

[Michael Wolff]

I mean, I think that he looks at this as a long as a war of attrition.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

As a war of attrition. Well, it may end up ironically as Donald Trump craves the Nobel Peace Prize, be his actual legacy war in Europe.

[Michael Wolff]

And you know, as more and more right wing governments come to the fore and right wing political movements in Europe and those are basically aligned with more and more aligned with Russia.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

So this is a bit of a gloomy note. What about more emails, please, to Shalom Baroness, the new architect of the East Wing, who it looks like may have been given the go ahead to get cracking.

[Michael Wolff]

I didn't read it as that way.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

What did you read it as?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I read it as though they could continue some construction activity on this. You know, I'm sure they went in and said, and said to the, said to the judge, if we don't do this, it's, you know, the winter is coming. I don't know. But there is still, I mean, I think there are a whole set of impediments before they're going to be able to go ahead with this monstrous project.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Okay, well, it's the people's house if you want to make your thoughts known. The email is inquiries or I say inquiries, but you say inquiries spelt with an I, whereas I would have spelt it with an E. Is that just an English spelling?

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Oh, it is. Okay, that's one. I get wrong all the time then. Sorry, Inquiries with an I sbaranes.com s b a r a n e s.com.

[Michael Wolff]

Make your thoughts, and this is to be clear, the new architect for the ballroom or convention center that is going to be attached and going to overwhelm the White House. The first architect has. It was nowhere to be found. He has run from this project.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

I think James McClary, as the terminology is these days, stepped back from the project much in the way that Larry Summers stepped back from various duties, his board work at OpenAI and his Harvard teaching. And now I see today two female students who videotaped him saying how difficult it was for him to address the classroom that he was addressing, but he would be continuing to teach. They leaked that video to various media sources. Now Harvard has launched an inquiry into them, which seems to me all wrong.

[Michael Wolff]

Really? Why?

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

I think it's interesting that Larry Summers sat there and said, this is very difficult for me to sit here and address the class.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. What's.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, it's not all about Larry.

[Michael Wolff]

You know, this is some guerrilla action by. By a couple of students who were not students who were not supposed to be in the class. I mean, the whole set of rules that they seem to have violated.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, I'm looking forward to Harvard's own inquiry into Larry Summers. But as Nell Scovell wrote, never had an economist so clearly brought his discipline to bear as his decision not to buy his girlfriend or the woman of his affections a gift unless she was going to put out. He wasn't going to buy her a gift if it wasn't. If she wasn't going to come with benefits. The ROI was not going to be good, was his point. The ROI was not going to be good. You know, Jeffrey counseled him.

[Michael Wolff]

It's a transactional world. No, I'm just thinking, if there is in this an address to the nation by the president, you know, and it's a funny thing because, you know, I mean, I'm of an age. I have sat through many addresses by the President to the nation sitting in the Oval Office, that kind of formality. And every time I see Donald Trump attempt to step into this role, it's kind of flabbergasting. So I'm.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Love it. He must. Absolutely. It's the peak for Trump, isn't it, of sitting behind the desk, addressing the nation with all those flags. Yeah.

[Michael Wolff]

And, you know, and we've talked about this before when I've been. I mean, I've seen this many times in the Oval Office. He sits in the Oval Office, and the Oval Office is filled with enormous number of people. I mean, really, bus station, like. And he sits behind the Resolute desk talking and talking and talking. Everybody is. Is trying to look at their phone or not be caught looking at their phone, blah, blah, blah. So now this is to the nation.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Do you think Melania will be watching? Did you watch me? Did you watch me? No. I will see on news. I will see on be best news.

[Michael Wolff]

I'm sure that she will not be watching. And also, you know, I mean these addresses to the nation are usually quite brief.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, I was going to say his press conferences are often very long.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. No, he can't stop talking. I mean it is, it is. It's actually the people around him, you know, in when they. On the whole issue of his age and senility they say. But he can talk for hours.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Well, in fact whenever you go to visit a relative in an old person's care home, there is always someone in the corner talking. Right. And think of the poor Cubans who used to have to listen to Fidel Castro who could talk for seven hours. He would get up and talk non stop for seven hours.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. In need. I recall the Chancellor.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

The German Chancellor. Yeah, I thought you were going to refer. I thought that's who you were.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. Who was famous and stun Stalin famous for going on and on and on and on and you know, when Stalin went on and on and on and on they wanted him to continue to go on and on because that meant you were still alive.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

This is not how we were expecting to end. Michael Wolff. Oh my goodness. If you have been, thank you for joining us. Don't forget to subscribe to the Daily Beast. Leave us a comment. Don't Forget to email esperanus.com about the White House developments. Well, we'll be back to dissect the President's speech to the nation if indeed it means anything. And of course we'll be back to dissect the Epstein files dropping on Friday.

[Michael Wolff]

I will see you then. Okay. Well let's thank our special inner circle of be beast of high level members.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

It's a be best tier of members.

[Michael Wolff]

Be besta Sandra Clark methinks Travels with Carl to be distinguished from Travels with Charlie, a famous book by John Steinbeck. Andrew Beaver the Capinator. Harry Clark who may or may not be related to Sandra Clark. It would be nice to get two people in the same household. We should offer a whole household.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

We should. Family membership. Family membership.

[Michael Wolff]

Dawn McCarthy Daniel. Dog lover. I bet he's a dog lover. M. Griner Fulvia Orlando Herbie. Andrew Melor.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

I think it's Andrew Mellor.

[Michael Wolff]

It probably is, but it's not as mellifluous. Las Cond And I'm reading Las Conde Bonzo. Val Love. Francesco.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Francesco.

[Michael Wolff]

Well again, depends on what language. In Italian it's Francesco. You're not Italian, but Val might be. Val might be Andrea Hodel Bocock, D.C. sharon Shipley, Connie Rutherford, Karen White, Heidi.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Riley and I know we have.

[Michael Wolff]

We thank you all.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Thanks to our production team, Devon Rogerino, Anna Von Ersen and our editor Jesse.

[Michael Wolff]

Millwood.

[Joe from Vanta]

Hi, this is Joe from Vanta. In today's digital world, compliance regulations are changing constantly and earning customer trust has never mattered more. Vanta helps companies get compliant fast and stay secure with the most advanced AI automation and continuous monitoring out there. So whether you're a startup going for your first SoC2 or ISO 27001 or a growing enterprise managing vendor risk, Vanta makes it quick, easy and scalable. And I'm not just saying that because I work here. Get [e-mail] VRBO helps you swap gift.

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[Michael Wolff]

Want more Great Listens Check out our.

[Joe from Vanta]

Comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily Beast [e-mail] podcasts.

[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming.

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[Podcast Co-host (possibly Daily Beast host)]

Feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline.

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