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- [00:00]
Babbel Advertiser
Parle tu francais hablas espanol? Par l'. Italiano? If you've used Babbel, you would. Babbel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com acast spelled B A B B E L.com acast rules and restrictions may apply.
- [00:39]
Acast Marketing
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- [01:18]
Michael Wolff
One of the things that we have been trying to do is to serve the first lady. Hit her with papers and saying, you're served. That's hard to do. Well, this past week we went into court and so we've asked the court to essentially deem her served. This is almost pro forma that the court would say, yes, she served and you can continue your litigation. But before the court said that, they finally responded to us because they went into court to ask that our suit be moved from the New York courts to the federal courts. That's a delay tactic, which means that we have to start the service process all over again.
- [02:08]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Michael, Happy New Year.
- [02:10]
Michael Wolff
Joanna, glad to see you back.
- [02:12]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Is it possible you haven't moved from that chair since we last talked to each other?
- [02:17]
Michael Wolff
I haven't moved from this chair in 30 years.
- [02:23]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Well, well, well. What an extraordinary year 2025 was. And I guess my first question for you because why wouldn't we get straight into it is, was 2025 peak Trump?
- [02:36]
Michael Wolff
Yes.
- [02:38]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Is it all is 2020?
- [02:39]
Michael Wolff
Why is downhill? I, you know, I think it's, I think it's downhill from here for Donald Trump. And I think we can move into words like, like crumbling because, because this always happens in second terms, number one. Number two, the reverse side of being so successful and by successful I mean dominating in the first year is that everything he does now catches up to him. So he has not hedged his, hedged his bets at all. He has not looked at this year as a, as a year of, of political triangulation. What he's looked at this year as. I have a limited amount of time, I must do everything I want to do, which he has done partly because it's a Trump thing. Like I don't think one or two or three steps ahead. I just want what I want and I want it now. And all of this stuff, the chickens come home to roost. So I think he has a major economic problems. He went in promising something, telling everyone, continuing to tell everyone it's great, it's better and that is clearly a problem. The health care thing I think is going to be monumental. Just going to cave in on him. Not just the, the, the cost of health care which is hitting everyone like this week, but the RFK Jr. Stuff. Now the, the, the, the country is not going to take is we're going to have the measles thing is going to go, is going to be a kind of constant headline this year. The ICE stuff, the videos of these ICE guys again, it, it is, there is only so much people can take. The incompetence of the people around him. Hegseth & Co. Let's call it that all of this stuff. Now comes the moment. Now in classic political terms, second in a president's second term, what happens now is we clean house. We, we get rid of all of these people. And he's not going to do that. He's going to double down. The doubling down of Donald Trump is going to create a doubling down effect in the opposition. So I think we're, that this is going to be a phenomenally hard year for him. The exact, the, the, the mirror opposite of the mere of the year we've just.
- [06:09]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Had. Fascinating. And of course he's a man of extremes as well. So as you say he got in there successful, got on with it and now those things will catch up with him. Also I would add to that not only are people looking at their health care bills and the state of healthcare, but there is the state of his own health, which is one of those things which now becomes apparent. His limp, he's constantly talking about his mental health. The strange interview he gave to the Wall Street Journal earlier this week where said that, you know, he took, you know, three times the amount, the recommended amount of aspirin because he wants thin blood pumping through his heart instead of thick blood. And you're like, dude, what are you talking.
- [06:56]
Michael Wolff
About? No, no. And he, you know, I mean, this is the other, the, the thing. This is what people.
- [07:03]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
See.
- [07:04]
Michael Wolff
Exactly. I mean, you know, you see the guy and you think, well, that is not the guy who we used to see. This is a guy who is. And that's the thing about the presidency, and it's the thing that he has avoided until now. You see someone age before your eyes.
- [07:25]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Right? We've seen him falling asleep in cabinet meetings, not once, not twice, but several times. We see him walking with a strange gait to his right leg. No one can forget the picture of him on 911 where literally the right side of his face is drooping. It's very clear when he talks about having regular mental health tests or cognitive tests, which actually, I thought you and I should take that cognitive test. We should do it on inside Trump's head and we should challenge readers to do it with us so we can see if we can tell the difference between a hippo, a giraffe, a lion and a.
- [08:04]
Michael Wolff
Crocodile. But what if we.
- [08:06]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Can'T? Well, we might not be able to. We might not be able to. In which case, perhaps he is indeed acing these tests and he is a man for all seasons, but I suspect he's not. And I understand the reticence of people to diagnose public figures, but it's very clear because we can see it. Some of this stuff is obvious, and you can see it in friends, you can see it in your parents, you can see it in your relatives. And let me make another comparison of watching someone.
- [08:37]
Michael Wolff
Age. You could see this in Barack Obama. You could see Barack Obama aging. And he was a man in his 40s. So now we have a man who is, who will be 80 this year. So I think we are going to see this, see this in, in speeded up.
- [08:59]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Motion. Well, we also see it in his frenzied, even more peculiar than the last social posts and the frenetic posting at 3 in the morning, the misspellings, the hateful things he's saying, which give people an insight into his character, which we know that people have often said, well, I don't like Donald Trump, but I like what he stands for. I think he's going to make.
- [09:24]
Michael Wolff
Change. I would challenge you somewhat on this. And you feel that these are extreme and off the wall and indicative of somebody falling apart because you're paying attention to them now. The interesting thing is that they have Been there for quite some.
- [09:44]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Time. I mean, I think they're getting worse, Michael. I think they're.
- [09:47]
Michael Wolff
Getting. No, only because you didn't see it throughout the campaign. I was on top of these. And if anyone had bothered to look and in people in the campaign during the whole 24, 2024 cycle would say, oh my God, these are Trump. People would say, oh my God, we're so glad he's not on Twitter because on Truth Social, which has. Where nobody is on Truth Social except him, nobody saw this absolutely crazy.
- [10:20]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Stuff. Hasn't in the time that we last saw each other, hasn't Truth Social also merged with a few a nuclear fusion.
- [10:30]
Michael Wolff
Company? No. I mean, we got to talk about this some sometime. I mean, this is the, the, a larger and of a critical topic which is just come under the grift, the money Trump is making for himself. And again, and we've said this before, but I think, I think it's. We should keep coming back to this. People were appalled, Appalled. When Bill Clinton made $20 million from the presidency. Trump is set to. Trump has already made billions. He will make, he will make by the time he leaves the presidency, $10 billion at.
- [11:17]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Least. I think we should do several episodes on Trump's grift and exactly how much money. And when you say Clinton made $20 million, Bill Clinton, you mean because he got big book contracts after he left the White House? Not in the White.
- [11:30]
Michael Wolff
House. I mean the Clinton initiative. All, all of this was looked at as, as a particular grift. And it was a particular grift. Except it was such small fry.
- [11:45]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Grift.
- [11:45]
Michael Wolff
Right. Compared to what is happening.
- [11:48]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Now. Okay, so that brings us on to the subject of billionaires a little.
- [11:53]
Michael Wolff
Bit. Trump, I want to add one more thing because we have, we have neglected in looking at 2026. What have we.
- [12:04]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Neglected? Well, we've neglected.
- [12:06]
Michael Wolff
To. Epstein, Epstein, Epstein. So I believe I've only just started.
- [12:13]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Talking. I'm just saying we've only just.
- [12:15]
Michael Wolff
Started. 2026 becomes the, the Epstein story closes in on.
- [12:20]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Trump. Okay. So we have the health care premiums. We have. Also another thing we haven't mentioned is the Supreme Court saying that he's going to have to pull out the National Guard from Chicago, Portland and la, which also seems like a defeat. So he goes in, does exactly what he wants, and then things start to catch up with him. And that's a big one. We saw both Governor Pritzker and Governor Newsom, or news scum as Trump refers to him, making hay with scotus his.
- [12:52]
Michael Wolff
Decision. One of the other things which we're going to keep our eye on, in which, which everyone in the White House certainly has their eye on, is the decision by the Supreme Court on.
- [13:04]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Tariffs.
- [13:05]
Michael Wolff
Right. And it is very likely, I would say more likely than not, that.
- [13:11]
Babbel Advertiser
They.
- [13:11]
Michael Wolff
Actually, that they come down on the side of, you know, he can't do that. He cannot unilaterally impose tariff, which will make him crazy and it will unravel much of the, whatever economic plan he had. He will, when that happens, have no plan at.
- [13:38]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
All. Well, it won't be the first time he hasn't had a plan. But it'd be interesting to see whether or not Congress planned to grow a backbone because he's pretty much sidelined them since January 20.
- [13:51]
Michael Wolff
2025. Well, we're going to see another thing because remember, we are also looking at, and this is part of the second year woes, we are looking at the midterm elections. So the one thing that is going to make members of Congress grow a backbone or look for some independence and some distance from Trump is their, their, their own fate and.
- [14:21]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Careers. Well, and being primaried by a Trump or a MAGA candidate now is not the death sentence that it once was. In fact, it's very clear that.
- [14:32]
Michael Wolff
Well, we will also shortly move out of that cycle. It's not a question of being primary because, because we will run to the limits of when one had to declare.
- [14:43]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
So. So you mean sort of post what march there will be. People will be free to start flexing their own.
- [14:50]
Michael Wolff
Independence. It's different in every state. But that will be, that's a rolling, rolling deadline. And it will be just people running for reelection and doing what they have to do. And if that involves for Republicans distancing themselves from Donald Trump, they will, it's absolutely.
- [15:06]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Fascinating. So the other thing that we have going on is we can't ignore the Democrats now and we have their new candidate, the Democratic Socialist Oran Mamdani sworn in on New Year's Day with his anti billionaire.
- [15:26]
Michael Wolff
Manifesto. You know, and I think one of the interesting things about that is how many Trump voters in New York voted for Mamdani. So we have a message that's being absorbed by lots and lots of people who have been outside of the political system or I think what are called low propensity voters now embracing a message which is not that dissimilar from the Trump message, except that the Trump is getting hoisted by his own message. I'm a populist. Except that the only people I'M really interested in are billionaires. And I have paved the way for them to own this administration and this country. But the Mamdani thing is very much targeted right at that, whatever this, the perception in the country that something has gone terribly wrong and it has gone terribly wrong because of, of a, of a conspiracy which involves these people, which also is part of the Epstein story. So, so I think that's going to be again, certainly a 2026.
- [17:07]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Theme. Well, we're certainly going to see, I think. And I feel like I went away with a group of friends for New Year's. We went to Italy for a week. Friends from all over the world. Super fun trip. But there was a conversation around Mamdani where I thought, oh, we're going to start getting Mamdani derangement syndrome. This is not just about Trump and I see it slightly differently. I think that he's a once in a generation politician, as is Trump, extremely skillful and up against absolutely terrible opposition. Andrew Cuomo was a woefully bad candidate. Curtis Sliwa was just not a real candidate. And so the only real option was this young, good looking, smiley man who promised affordability, which is what a huge generation of people want and they feel they've been left out. And could there be anything more grotesque than frankly watching Jeff Bezos and his new wife on St. Barts sort of dancing on Bunkettes as a motorcycle rode through their restaurant with a girl with a big champagne bottle and those sparklers? I mean, I mean, for God's sake, man, you're single handedly starting the revolution here. I wanted to reach for Molotov cocktail after I saw that performance. And I couldn't be less revolutionary. But there is something so grotesque about these displays of conspicuous.
- [18:42]
Michael Wolff
Consumption. There's a piece in the Times, I think it's the Times Today by Sam Tanenhaus about Mum Donnie and Sam. It's interesting because Sam usually writes about conservatives. You know, he wrote a brilliant biography of Whitaker Chambers and an even more brilliant biography of William F. Buckley. Actually, one of my singularly reading pleasures of the year was Sam's Buckley biography. Can't recommend it.
- [19:15]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
More. Oh my God, you're beginning to speak in book blurbs. Can't recommend.
- [19:19]
Michael Wolff
It. I've, I've written.
- [19:22]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Many. Something's happening to.
- [19:24]
Michael Wolff
You. This is a great.
- [19:27]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Book. Okay, Sam Tannen House. Take it to the bank while it's still.
- [19:32]
Michael Wolff
There. And, but it's, but it's. And I recommend the piece on mum Donnie. It really gets to, to. This is a this essentially, in the piece, Sam talks about Mamdani defining a new political ideology, but an ideology outside of the bounds of the conventional thinking of ideology. So this is ideology as.
- [20:05]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Culture. Yeah, I read that piece too and I thought it was sort of, I thought it was somewhat academic. The ideology of affordability is not new. It's just a different word. I mean, it's just people want a city they can afford to live in and New York is super.
- [20:20]
Michael Wolff
Expensive. Well, I think the greater point was that here is a message that spoke to lots of Trump voters. I think the other part of it is that something has gone terribly wrong and we are pinning it on. Or mum, Donnie is pinning it on. And as, as in his way, Trump pinned it on a class of people who are out of touch. I too had a dinner last night with a lot of people who were New Yorkers who were appalled by, by Mamdani's election. And I thought, yeah, these are out of.
- [21:02]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Touch. Yeah, well, and I think one of the issues is that people see, see the extremes of wealth much more now on social media. I mean, Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez, constant posting of what they are doing and the courting of the paparazzi feels like a new moment for very wealthy people. We've always had very wealthy people, but for the most part they're largely.
- [21:25]
Michael Wolff
Discreet. Let's clarify that. There are many, many, many more very, very, very wealthy people than ever before. So this is not just more, this is something has singularly happened within, you know, not the sort of the post financial crisis.
- [21:51]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
World. But isn't that a good thing? If America is a country that people come to because they want to fulfill more than the American dream, but they want to grasp the opportunity that America has always traditionally offered, especially to immigrants. Isn't the fact that there are more billionaires, more multimillionaires a good thing? Why is this suddenly a bad thing? The point of America is it's the land of.
- [22:14]
Michael Wolff
Opportunity. The problem with, with, with money is that everything gravitates to it. So, and if there is so much more money and so many more people with it, then that begins to describe almost every aspect of the culture. It influences everything. There is nothing that, that, that everything then becomes a reflection of what a billionaires or people with that kind of money want. There is then, and that's the feeling that I think, I think so many people have. There's no room for anyone else, no concern for everyone else, and everyone becomes a second class.
- [23:02]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Citizen. Well, I think that's incredibly well put and you're right about the extremes of it, but that's always been the thing that people liked about.
- [23:10]
Michael Wolff
America. But you have to think about extremes as a. How extreme and how much room there is for anything else. If there is no room for anything else but that extreme, then that becomes a, that becomes a substantial issue. And I mean, we, we've, we've seen this, we've seen this kind of reaction before. I mean, the Gilded Age, of course, was, was, was created a reaction that lasted for decades literally against that. So, and, and I think we are in this, I mean, I mean, and we should, we should spend some time talking about this because something really profound has happened. The billionaire takeover of, of, of almost every aspect of American life. And that has happened since the 1980s. And we're, we're coming to a moment in Trump and confusingly, Trump gets to be president because on a populist platform, but clearly he is the avatar of, of the billionaire.
- [24:22]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Nation.
- [24:23]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, they all immediately certainly in this second term, gathered around him and now seem to be plotting, plotting to take whatever he has created, either plotting to realize the spoils of this or in the case of Peter Thiel, J.D. j.D. Vance, plotting something much.
- [24:53]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Darker. Well, and I think it's underpinned by an anxiety around AI right? And whether or not AI brings the sort of mass unemployment or the mass disruption that people keep saying it's going to. You've got Geoffrey Hinton running around saying the world is about to end. So you've got the extremes of the impact of AI You've got the visible nature of all the, it's particularly tech billionaires, right, who are showing up to support Trump because they get the. Well, I don't regulation.
- [25:27]
Michael Wolff
Tech. Tech billionaires have the, have the, the media spotlight, but Trump is surrounded also by a whole legion of, of old fashioned billionaires of, of guys who made their money in mining and in oil and in, and of course, of course finance. You know, the billionaires are the, are the, are the newest iteration of that or as Trump says, the crypto guys. You know, during the campaign when, when Trump became frustrated with having to do fundraisers, he said, why do I have to do this? The crypto guys will give me anything I.
- [26:10]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Need. Yeah, of course they will because that's how they get, they get.
- [26:13]
Michael Wolff
Wealthy. And once more, a word from our.
- [26:17]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
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- [27:09]
Babbel Advertiser
Today. Par le tu francais hablas espanol? Parle italiano? If you've used Babbel, you would Babbel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words and phrases to get you speaking quickly about the things you actually talk about in the real world. With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel subscription right now at babbel.com acast spelled B-A B-B-E-L.com acast rules and restrictions may.
- [27:52]
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- [28:28]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Advertise and Michael Wolff and I are back inside Donald Trump's head for the first time in 2026. All right, so we've got a lot planned for the year. Then we're going to get into Trump's own grift and his family's grift and his friend's grift. We're going to get into the billionaire grift and the opportunism around having Trump as a president. We're going to get into Trump's health, his physical health and his mental health. And is he deteriorating, which seems to be the case because we can.
- [29:04]
Michael Wolff
See it and we are going to continue Because I think this is a story that gets only bigger. The drumbeat louder. Epstein. Epstein.
- [29:17]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Epstein. Epstein. Epstein.
- [29:18]
Michael Wolff
Epstein. And the connection and you know, the whole, you know, again and I think it's important to frame this. We are in this, this Epstein drama because Trump told his supporters, the MAGA world that had nothing to do with him. You know, he may have seen Jeffrey Epstein once, you know, wave to him and that was the extent of their, of their relationship. And I think, and I think the MAGA people took him at his word and so they shifted. This, this was, this was, you know, Trump was, Epstein was about a lot of, a lot of Democrat Democrats who were perverts, beginning with, with Bill Clinton. That turns out, and this is really a kind of revelation for people of the past year that this turns out to be not, not true at all or, or in, in proportion. The, the proportion has been off that it is Trump who has been the clo. Who is the closest political figure to Jeffrey EPSTEIN. And again, two friends, friends for, for, not only friends for 15 years, but politics probably for each of them the closest relationship in their.
- [30:42]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Lives. So we've laid out our wares for the coming months. Where are we with your own particular case against the First Lady? And just reminding people that last year you brought an anti slap suit against her after she tried to close you down talking about her relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein and Melania and how they.
- [31:07]
Michael Wolff
Met. Right? So I've always thought that Melania is a key part of the puzzle. What happened with Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump. Melania sheds an enormous amount of light. Melania with her relationship both to Epstein and then, and then how she came to, into her relationship with, with Donald.
- [31:28]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Trump. Well, and also I think the world of modeling, right, because at the time the currency Central.
- [31:34]
Michael Wolff
Central. And so the brief background is I discussed this and then immediately got a letter from, from her attorneys, a man by the name of Alejandro Brito who is, who has represented Trump in a lot of these libel suits that he brings. And he brings them for the purposes of, of, of financial gain. Well, by both financial game and for controlling the media, intimidating the.
- [32:07]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Media. So he's the guy behind the Wall Street Journal. He was the guy behind cbs.
- [32:12]
Michael Wolff
Abc, the New York Times and, and the BBC. The BBC now. So at any rate, I got a letter from, from, from him saying you, you know, you gotta not talk about Melania and, and Trump or we're going to sue you for a billion dollars before they could sue me for a billion Dollars. And the likelihood is that they probably had no intention of suing me, that this was just an effort to intimidate me. But before they could do that, we went into court and sued them in New York State under these, under laws expressly against using the libel statute for the express purpose to intimidate legitimate speech. So that happened. We filed that suit on October 22nd. Now, in that time, and that's almost 10 weeks ago, one of the things that we have been trying to do is to serve the First Lady. It turns out to be very difficult to serve. Hit her with papers and saying, you're served. That's hard to do. Now, I mean, usually in these kinds of things, everybody, you know, especially celebrities, recognize this and they say, okay, you serve my lawyers. And, you know, because this is going to happen inevitably, they have not done this. They have, they have, they have run in. They're basically hiding. They don't want this to go forward because they're kind of, they've kind of screwed themselves. I file suit. That means I can subpoena them. That means I can ask Melania Trump, Donald Trump, all of their friends, basically, anything I want about the relationship to Jeffrey Epstein. That is something that I think they cannot let.
- [34:10]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Happen. Michael, how long can she avoid being.
- [34:17]
Michael Wolff
Served? Well, this past week, we went into court and said, and said, hey, we've done everything humanly possible to serve her. And so we've asked the court to essentially deem her served or to carve a way that was. Service would be achievable. And remember, so we have not heard from Melania or her lawyers. But having done that in the court would. This is almost pro forma that the court would say, yes, she served and you can continue your, your litigation. But before the court said that, they finally responded to us because they went into court to ask that our suit be moved from New York State to, from, from the New York courts to the federal courts. That's a move. That's a, that's a delay tactic, which, which means that, that, that we have to start the service process all, all over again. But the interesting thing was they brought in some, a big international firm, DLA Piper, I think, I think big.
- [35:35]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
New. Well, big. Yeah. A huge law.
- [35:38]
Michael Wolff
Firm. Global. Global firm, which is a crazy. I mean, they don't seem to have any expertise in, in, in libel law. But this is what Trump always does. Hire some new firm, ask questions.
- [35:51]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Later. Well, and sometimes doesn't pay the.
- [35:53]
Michael Wolff
Lawyers. Right, of course, of course. So, but that's where. So that's that's basically where this is. They have now gone into, they have asked, they're asking the federal court to take this over, take it from state court. Now, the other interesting thing, though, is that this means that we can, in discovery, ask Melania where she lives. I mean, we maintain that she lives in New York City and therefore New York is the New York court is the proper venue for this. So we get to ask her.
- [36:31]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
And presumably she has to prove it, does she, what with cell phone records or all of.
- [36:38]
Michael Wolff
That. And we get to say how many, you know, we will get to expose or we have the possibility of exposing probably one of the most tortured living arrangements among a presidential couple in.
- [36:56]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
History. How fascinating. So we'll figure out where the first lady actually lives or and by.
- [37:04]
Michael Wolff
We might extrapolate from that whether she really is the first.
- [37:08]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Lady. Is she not the first lady if she doesn't live at the White.
- [37:14]
Michael Wolff
House? Well, I don't know. I mean, if she's, if she's, I mean, she's a certainly at best, the most attenuated first lady in the, it's very of the United.
- [37:24]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
States. It's very interesting. And this, they may be completely disconnected, but, or unconnected, I should say. But it's true. We've seen more of her smiling at Donald Trump's side in the last month or so. Some of that is perhaps the holidays and some of that may be the run up to the release of her da da da da documentary at the end of January, which I for one, can't wait.
- [37:49]
Michael Wolff
For. Yes. No, I suspect that is this is, I mean, this will, the documentary will be her biggest.
- [37:58]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Unveiling. I also made a mistake in our last podcast by referring to her as coming from Czechoslovakia. Of course, she comes from Slovenia, which was part of Yugoslavia. And I got that wrong. And lots of people pointed that out. So thank you for pointing that out. But there is tremendous interest in your case with Melania and we have more questions for you as you gear.
- [38:18]
Michael Wolff
Up to take and I should just just say, and this is, I'm sure, Mr. Brito from Coral Gables, this is also a sore spot with them that we have. We started a GoFundMe page which has raised now almost $800,000 to, with which to pursue the first lady. And, and the, and how many.
- [38:46]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Different people, how many different people as that come from? That's not a billionaire giving you a check and saying, go for Michael.
- [38:53]
Michael Wolff
Wolf? No, I think that's, that's well over 20,000 people.
- [38:57]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Now. Wow. Well over 20,000 people have written you a check or committed to supporting the fund to find out the truth about.
- [39:06]
Michael Wolff
Malaria. These are all from contributions. You can see the role. $5 $20 $53 dollars it's quite amazing and gratefully, another commercial.
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Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Fin.
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- [41:17]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Started, Michael Wolf and I about delving around in Donald Trump's head. Obviously one of the most persistent questions is how did she get her Einstein Visa? Because she was a model not traditionally associated with getting an Einstein Visa. And also she wasn't a supermodel. I mean, she was a catalog model. There are different gradations of model at the time. It was peak model in terms of the modeling industry. And she really wasn't. She wasn't up there with Kate Moss and Naomi.
- [41:55]
Michael Wolff
Campbell. I mean, far from it. She was hardly working. You know, she only becomes a supermodel in, in. In quotes when. When she begins her relationship with. With Donald Trump and. And he starts to promote her as a supermodel. She's not a supermodel. Except he announces that he is, of course, his girlfriend is of course, a supermodel. So he has to make her a.
- [42:23]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Supermodel. He has to make her a supermodel. I thought her silver dress on New Year's Eve at their Mar a Lago party was pretty cool, and I thought it was. I didn't love the. I have a silver coat, so I didn't love the comparisons to a burrito that there were online. I thought that was. I thought that wasn't entirely appropriate. I thought she looked pretty hot in the silver dress, actually. All right, question for Melania. And this is over. This is from overit 999. Show us your immigration papers, meaning everything that is part of your citizenship process. Did you lie on your personal website saying you graduated from college? Are there lies like this on your.
- [43:08]
Michael Wolff
Immigration? This is. And this is a very good example. Example of why they can't let her sit for a deposition. I mean, why they are screwed because she will have to sit for a deposition. We continue this lawsuit, and as I say, we certainly have the funds to continue it. This is going to end up with. With her before a court.
- [43:31]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Reporter. So does she do what Jeffrey Epstein did, which is plead the fifth? I. On the advice of my lawyers, I plead the.
- [43:38]
Michael Wolff
Fifth. She'll be directed by the court to answer the question. She has to sit for a.
- [43:42]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Deposition. I. I do not recall. I do not recall. Please read my book, Melania, written by myself and nobody. Nobody else. Nobody thanked in that book. No page of acknowledgments. The most bizarre book.
- [44:00]
Michael Wolff
Right? Well, AI.
- [44:02]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Written. Michael. Michael. Is it going to be televised? Is it going to be.
- [44:05]
Michael Wolff
Televised? Well, there will probably be video of it. It won't be televised. And I don't know the. I. I don't know the ability to release the video or. Or not. But this is. This is. This is. She. She cannot let this happen. So she will either. I mean, her options are to run out the clock on this, which they will certainly try to do. They will. Every delay tactic that's available to Them, they will.
- [44:39]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Use and, but eventually the clock runs out. They have to.
- [44:44]
Michael Wolff
Keep. Eventually, yes, I guess at some point they could come and offer. Offer to settle this. Okay, so what settlement, what settlement would I, settlement offer would I take? You know, I, I, I, I, I don't know. I might, I might. What, what, what if they were to say. They're not going to say this, but what if they were to say that, that they would, they would enter into covenants never again to sue any media organization for, for libel. But it would have to be something as definitive as.
- [45:28]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
That. Okay, so we have a question from. A question from Carla Bruckner. There is one character in this story who seems to have flown under the radar, Paolo Zampoli. No one, as far as I know, has ever delved into how and under what circumstances he brought Melania to.
- [45:46]
Michael Wolff
Nyc. We are, we are delving and we will continue to.
- [45:55]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Delve. Okay, so we have all had a masterclass in the heinous behavior of multiple model agency owners, but somehow Zampoli has evaded.
- [46:06]
Michael Wolff
Scrutiny. He arranged, he will, he will no longer evade that.
- [46:10]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Scrutiny. Okay, good, because she's just reminding us. He arranged the party at the Kit Kat Club where Melania said she met her future husband. But he's still very much a part of the inner circle, as he is currently the US Special Representative for Global.
- [46:22]
Michael Wolff
Partnerships. On the.
- [46:24]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Case. Yeah, on the case. That's a great question. Thank you, Carla Bruckner. Okay, we have many other questions which we'll get to in future episodes, but we have a lot of stuff to cover over the next few weeks.
- [46:38]
Michael Wolff
So. And I cover this more deeply and in more detail in my substack. That's, that's how old Tales of our Time. So if you want to follow blow by blow, it's all.
- [46:55]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
There. Trump has hit his peak, and it's all downhill from now on. So more questions, please, from all of you as Michael's case heats.
- [47:04]
Michael Wolff
Up. Michael, I have to go and pick up my daughter at this skating rink.
- [47:12]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
So. Oh, my goodness, you do. You have to go. Fly like the wind. I don't let her put you on skates.
- [47:17]
Michael Wolff
Michael. You know, it's, it's. They glide. It really looks.
- [47:21]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Attractive. It looks very attractive. I'm just saying it's. The bones take longer to heal at our.
- [47:26]
Michael Wolff
Stage. I, I take your.
- [47:27]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Point. All right, Michael. I will be back on Tuesday with more inside Trump's.
- [47:34]
Babbel Advertiser
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- [47:35]
Michael Wolff
Great. See.
- [47:36]
Host (possibly a journalist or podcast host)
Ya. And a big thanks to our bebeast level members, of whom we have several new ones. So thank you very much. Yvette Johnson Methinks Betsy o' Farrell Mills and Lynns Shell B Max Cubitt, David Sherry, Thomas Moore, Maria Voltain D. Cuia Watts, Cynthia Lund, John Over Rocker, Deb K. Ostrander, Sandra Clark Travels With Carl, Andrew Beaver Capenator, Harry Clark, Dawn McCarthy, Daniel Doglover, M. Griner Dicetone Fulvia Orlando Herbie Andrew Mellor, Tattnall, Val Love, Francisco, Will Hutchison, Andrea Hodel, Bocock D.C. sharon Shipley, Connie Rutherford, Karen White and Heidi Reilly. And a big thanks to our production team, Devon Rogerino, Rachel Rosenfield and our editor Jesse.
- [48:33]
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- [49:14]
Michael Wolff
Apply. Acast powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we.
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Chris Duffy
Recommend. We all have bad days and sometimes bad weeks and maybe even bad years. But the good news is we don't have to figure out life all alone. I'm comedian Chris Duffy, host of Ted's how to Be a Better Human podcast, and our show is about the little ways that you can improve your life. Actual practical tips that you can put into place that will make your day to day better. Whether it is setting boundaries at work or rethinking how you clean your house, each episode has conversations with experts who share tips on how to navigate life's ups and downs and downs. Find how to be a better human wherever you're listening to.
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Michael Wolff
This ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast the Last Laugh and our Star Studded the Daily Beast podcast@thedailybeast.com podcasts if you enjoyed.
- [50:19]
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