The Daily Beast Podcast
Episode: Why Sleepy Trump, 79, Is Really Panicking Aides
Host: Joanna Coles (Chief Content Officer, The Daily Beast)
Guests: Michael Wolff, Josh Dawsey
Date: December 10, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode dives into mounting concerns about 79-year-old President Donald Trump's apparent fatigue, growing unpredictability, and how his aging and leadership style are causing alarm among close aides and top officials. Journalists Michael Wolff and Josh Dawsey provide a lively, bitingly funny inside look into Trump’s White House, Cabinet dramas, the Hegseth video scandal, the chaotic battle for control in media mergers influenced by Trump, and the surreal Trumpification of D.C. cultural life.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Trump’s Sleepiness and Aide Panic
(02:03, 06:12, 06:21, 07:13, 20:45, 21:01)
- Recurring Theme: Trump has developed a tendency to fall asleep during important meetings, frequently on camera, which creates panic among staff.
- Aides dread these moments: "Everybody is in a low-level panic now all of the time about Trump falling asleep because then he gets mad. He essentially blames the people around him for the fact that he fell asleep." (Michael Wolff, 02:03)
- Staff struggle between wanting to wake him and the fear of his anger or embarrassment. "You can't wake him up. Also, the cameras are running." (Michael Wolff, 06:21)
- This is new: Trump used to walk out of situations when bored. Now, "they're going mm-hmm… because he's asleep." (Michael Wolff, 06:12)
Is It Age, Health, or Boredom?
- Dawsey questions: “Do you think this is a health issue or is this just Trump, he’s 79?” (07:30)
- Wolff suggests Trump may simply be losing interest due to things going wrong for him, and his famous allergy to hard work.
2. The ‘Hegseth Video’ Scandal
(08:22–16:12, 23:18, 24:03)
- Background: A controversial video allegedly shows Secretary of War Pete Hegseth ordering the bombing of survivors from a wreck in Venezuela. Trump is wavering on releasing it, initially saying yes (offhand) and now resisting.
- Trump’s pattern: Wolff draws a parallel to the long-promised but never released “Epstein files,” noting Trump would rather avoid decisive action than be forced into transparency.
- “He didn't like anybody to force his hand... So instead he said, no, we're not releasing this or only... if Pete wants to release it.” (Wolff, 10:50)
- Dawsey wonders if Trump is shielding Hegseth, or just dodging responsibility for potential war crimes.
- Political fallout: Congress threatens to withhold 25% of Defense budget if video isn’t released, hinting at growing bipartisan pushback (24:03).
3. Trump’s Leadership Style: Mercurial, Domineering, and Detached
(16:45–19:43, 20:26, 21:01, 22:39)
- Trump issues vague orders—“finish the job”—and expects subordinates to interpret his intent, fueling chaos and defensiveness among officials.
- Wolff: "You don't really know what he wants... He's making pronouncements: 'Finish the job.' We're the best..." (18:47)
- The toll: Mike Johnson’s “nervous breakdown” is cited as evidence of widespread psychological strain on Trump’s top staff and Congressional Republicans (19:58, 20:04).
- Cabinet and Congressional aides reportedly suffer collective “Stockholm syndrome.”
4. Pete Hegseth’s Tenure: Universally Dismissed
(24:17, 24:45–25:20, 27:03)
- Hegseth, Secretary of War, is derided in Washington as a “moron,” a “joke,” and, according to Wolff, "not smart, not honest, not competent… and he's a drunk. So the package is really complete." (25:20)
- His days may be numbered post-video release, but “delay, delay, delay” is the Trump strategy for weathering scandals. (27:44–27:56)
5. Trump’s Influence on Media Mergers & Hollywood
(33:01–47:18)
- Paramount-Netflix-Warner Brothers Deals: Trump’s personal beefs and alliances (e.g., with Larry Ellison) directly affect who can buy whom in Hollywood. "We should have won because we know Donald Trump." (Michael Wolff, 38:04)
- Wolff skewers the absurdity: “Neither of these companies should get this deal. This is going to be disastrous for... Hollywood, for the creative community, [and] for the audiences who are just going to see... lazy, homogenous, you know, crap.” (46:06)
- Dawsey and Wolff point to how Trump's fixation with media "relics" like 60 Minutes and Time shapes strategy—"Trump is a guy lost in the past, which is a curiosity since he is so much the guy who defines the present." (Michael Wolff, 34:14)
- The Ellisons’ deal features a Trumpian twist: bringing in Jared Kushner’s venture fund (with Saudi money) as a stakeholder, further entwining business and political grift (41:28–42:35).
6. Cultural Takeover: The Kennedy Center “Trumpification”
(51:08–54:15)
- Trump has overhauled the Kennedy Center board with loyalists, alienating its former professional and audience base.
- At the Kennedy Center Honors, Trump dotes excessively on Phantom of the Opera’s Michael Crawford, then jokes: "People have been saying that perhaps I should get a Kennedy honor. I think I'll nominate myself." (Josh Dawsey, 54:01)
7. Melania, Marjorie Taylor Greene & Miscellaneous Surrealities
(44:13–45:38, 54:15–56:11, 56:33–57:47)
- Marjorie Taylor Greene’s 60 Minutes appearance—descriptive of life under MAGA and personal threats—rattles Trump because CBS (owned by Paramount) is supposed to be “tame.”
- Melania resurfaces publicly, reading “How Does Santa Go Down the Chimney?” in her inimitable fashion, adding to the episode’s surreal tone.
- Wolff jokingly seeks listener help for his “suit” to subpoena Melania and her circle, inviting input on possible witnesses.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Trump’s Age:
“Everybody is in a low-level panic now all of the time about Trump falling asleep because then he gets mad. He essentially blames the people around him for the fact that he fell asleep.”
— Michael Wolff (02:03) -
On Trump’s Indecision:
“He didn't like anybody to force his hand... So instead... 'We're only going to release [the Hegseth video] if Pete wants to release it.'”
— Michael Wolff (10:50) -
On Leadership Style:
"You don't really know what he wants... He's making pronouncements: 'Finish the job.'"
— Michael Wolff (18:47) -
On Hegseth:
“Let’s... he’s not honest, he’s not competent, and he’s a drunk. So the package is really complete.”
— Michael Wolff (25:20) -
On Trump and Media:
"Trump is a guy lost in the past, which is a curiosity since he is so much the guy who defines the present."
— Michael Wolff (34:14) -
On Trump’s Self-Regard:
"People have been saying that perhaps I should get a Kennedy honor. I think I'll nominate myself."
— Donald Trump (as quoted by Josh Dawsey, 54:01) -
Wolff on Excusing Aging Power Brokers:
"I sat with Murdoch … talking to him and…he would just be, like, frozen. And... his PR guy would say, ‘No, no, no, he’s thinking deeply. He concentrates very hard.’ So... people around Trump have to make those kinds of excuses, because you can’t say he fell asleep."
— Michael Wolff (21:33–22:39)
Important Timestamps
- 02:03: First in-depth discussion of Trump’s sleepiness and aide panic
- 06:12: Contrasting Trump’s boredom in past vs sleepiness now
- 10:50: Trump’s decision not to release the Hegseth video; shifting blame
- 16:45: Trump’s leadership: “Finish the job” vagueness
- 20:04: Mike Johnson’s “nervous breakdown” cited as evidence of stress
- 23:18: Hegseth video’s possible release likened to Epstein files saga
- 24:45–25:20: Candid evisceration of Pete Hegseth
- 33:01: Introduction to Trump’s impact on Hollywood mergers
- 41:28: Ellisons bring Kushner & Saudi money into Paramount bid
- 46:06: Wolff’s warning on media mergers and monopoly
- 51:08: Trump’s takeover of Kennedy Center, Marjorie Taylor Greene on 60 Minutes
- 54:01: Trump’s self-nomination for Kennedy Center Honor
- 55:14: Melania’s “How Does Santa Go Down the Chimney?” reading discussed
- 56:33: Wolff’s “Melania subpoena” joke, invite for listener input
Tone & Style
Lively, sharp, satirical yet laced with deep anxiety over constitutional norms. The hosts mercilessly skewer the cast of Trump-era Washington, but with a resigned bemusement about the endless telenovela of American politics.
For anyone who missed the episode, this frank, funny, and at times surreal conversation untangles current Trump-world scandals, illustrates the emotional exhaustion of everyone in his orbit, and paints a portrait of high-level governance and business in a state of ongoing farce—one both darkly comic and unnervingly consequential.